S04.E11: A.W.O.L.

[BkWurm1]

Do you guys really think Andy is staying over at the Diggles' after this episode? That's not what I got at all. He came through at ARGUS so he gets a home cooked meal and to meet his niece. Then the guard outside escorts him to his cell

 

Oh.  Well that makes a hell of a lot more sense, ha, ha.

 

 

I can't get over how ridiculous Digg's mask is, particularly tonight. It's like the costume designer thought, "y'know who's cool? Welders. And Magneto. What if Magneto and a welder had a baby? And it was Digg's helmet?? Welder by day, vigilante by night! It'll be my homage to Flashdance AND X-men." 

Have they tweaked it?  I swear it looks smaller and more angular. 

[bijoux]

People who've worn their hair like this shouldn't be allowed to be critical of others' fashion choices :P

 

 

1. Very true.

 

2. That guy cracks me up.

[Chaser]

I was so distracted by Bundy Queen that I never paid attention to the cop. The squint, it's like looking at the picture blinded him. 

[bijoux]

I feel a little robbed that we didn't get Goth Felicity's commentary on Oliver. Yeah, yeah, she was a manifestation of Felicity's psyche and she had issues with herself, not with Oliver. Still, fun times could have been had.

[BkWurm1]

Do you guys really think Andy is staying over at the Diggles' after this episode? That's not what I got at all. He came through at ARGUS so he gets a home cooked meal and to meet his niece. Then the guard outside escorts him to his cell

 

Ok, I'm going back on what I said.  It's still makes more sense but I just rewatched and the final thing Diggle says to Andy is "Welcome Home".  That sounds a lot like he is staying with them.  It still has to be a house arrest thing with him going with Diggle into the Arrow Lair during the day (though that brings up the Lair location being compromised by more than Merlyn. )

[lemotomato]

You know it's a good episode when it flies by and leaves you wanting for more. This week focused on two storylines-- the Diggle family and Felicity-- and as a result everything was tightly written and flowed so smoothly. There were character moments that were allowed to breathe and it was so refreshing. So many great performances by everyone, especially EBR.

 

I love all the insight we got on Digg and Felicity. Digg's everlasting patience with Oliver the last 4 years came from him trying to keep Andy on the straight and narrow. (And was Lyla the only good person Digg served in the Army with? All people from his military past have turned out to be baddies) We saw in goth!Felicity the origin of the mean streak that comes out Felicity when she's stressed. I was worried that making them share a focus episode one of them would get shortchanged, but the balance was perfect.

 

Loved all the Diggle/Lyla scenes. She needs to guest star more; she fits in so naturally. The Olicity scenes were absolutely perfect. The part at the end was adorable. I wonder how much of Oliver's surprised reaction to the goth Felicity was SA, because he might not have even been on set when EBR filmed the flashbacks for 305. (I remember him mentioning how great it was to get days off when in episodes where the flashbacks were not not Oliver's)

 

I wasn't going to say anything about the Oliver-Laurel scene, because it was one of their usual I'm-talking-to-you-but-my-tone-and-face-indicate-I'd-rather-not-be-here-right-now conversations, except I noticed 2 things: 1) Laurel told Oliver that what happened to Felicity was no one's fault except DD's, but he brushed her off (albeit more kindly than usual) and he didn't really believe it until Felicity told him the exact same thing later. and 2) When Laurel says to Oliver "Felicity makes her own choices... I'm sure that's why you love her so much", KC looks and sounds like she can barely get the last part out. 

 

Oh, and I don't mind that Felicity's codename turned out to be Overwatch (I don't think it's your fault, Wonderwall! I'm pretty sure MG had his heart set on it for a while now) but I guess I'm on a very small boat as far as that's concerned :P

Edited January 28, 2016 by lemotomato

[wonderwall]

I'm just emotional y'all. 

 

EBR has come such a long way in this series and so has Felicity Smoak :')

 

Not only that but even SA and Oliver and Olicity... 

 

This episode was perfect. I'm going to rewatch it. 

[Guest]

I'd like to know why this show insists on showing us the gross eye holes when someone doesn't have an eye. Slade in s2 was bad enough and now the ARGUS guy! Ewwwwww!

[bijoux]

So I watched it again. Yes, I am that sad but the episode was honestly just so enjoyable.

 

The opening sequence was great. Then call like a normal person. Heh. I love you, Dig. Now take Oliver and Felicity out on a double date.

 

Oliver was so damn emotionally compromised for the better part of it. His phone message to Dig may as well have ended with a whispered I love you, the gulp during Felicity's second speech in the lair, and then watching the Diggle brothers share a moment. His face paint was probably running under his mask at that. He was also great deflecting Felicity's Hot Wheels comment. Coupled with the cute little face she makes it's a total call back to him not rising to her baiting and snipping in 4x06. I am now completely convinced that this is how they operate in situations when she is snappish. It just bounces off him and she ceases and desists.

 

The slit in Felicity's shirt was a perfect call for some light groping during the carry. Missed opportunity.

 

Man, whenever Felicity gets called out for being harsh on people, one should remember that she's the harshest on herself. Look what it got you, a ring side seat to the rest of your life. Yeesh.

 

So Rubicon is bound to come up sooner or later. The only question is whether it will be this season or they will save it for the next. I'd say time is short this year, but they've now connected Oliver, the Diggles, Shadowspire, ARGUS and Darhk, so I wouldn't rule it out completely. Though I forgot to comment on it earlier, I was blown away by Lyla being willing to give the codes to save Dig. Plus, her knowing the codes really does indicate that she has top level clearing. And simultaneously confirms my belief that Waller is incompetent. Lyla's been gone for nearing a year now and the codes haven't been changed? Come on, now! Plus, Waller totally painted a target on Lyla with her "Agent Michaels is my most trusted operative". It can't have been by accident, but I'm not really sure why she did it.

 

Ok, I'm going back on what I said.  It's still makes more sense but I just rewatched and the final thing Diggle says to Andy is "Welcome Home".  That sounds a lot like he is staying with them.  It still has to be a house arrest thing with him going with Diggle into the Arrow Lair during the day (though that brings up the Lair location being compromised by more than Merlyn. )

 

Yeah, I'm still not buying that he's staying there. For one, where would he stay. This is Dig's bachelor pad. Why would he have more than two bedrooms? For another, even if Dig went insane, I don't believe Lyla would be cool with Uncle Andy hanging around Sara all the time just yet. So for me the welcome is more an acknowledgement that Dig saw the brother he lost once again.

 

I'd like to know why this show insists on showing us the gross eye holes when someone doesn't have an eye. Slade in s2 was bad enough and now the ARGUS guy! Ewwwwww!

 

Hey, we're moving up in the world. Now we got to see the eyeball as well. :D

Edited January 28, 2016 by bijoux

[Happy Harpy]

Diggle and Felicity talked! Diggle and Felicity had a scene! SQUEEEEEEEE!

(This, and my OTP got together...I can have nice things! Hell Yeah TV Wednesday for me.)

 

This episode confirmed once more that for me, this show only needs Oliver, Felicity and Diggle to work. No comparison with last week's mediocre (imo) outing.

 

It was about Felicity! This is not a drill, Felicity's storyline was about Felicity. And she rocks. Take note, people, this is how you do strong female characters. She was affected in a realistic way, all but a Mary-Sue, but she didn't let it put her down.

Oliver and Felicity have such a great relationship right now. They confide and rely on each other, they believe in each other, they're each other's partner and best friend and light. And they're adorable.

Oliver was everything I wanted him to be with her. It doesn't change anything for him. I was afraid that Felicity would be snippy like in 4x06, but the writing was way better this time around imo.

 

But...

 

But, I resent all the more the breakup mindfuckery  and BMD bullshit hanging over them like a sword of Damocles.

 

If they want to make some "The Diggles" spinoff after Arrow, I'm in. Seriously. The Diggles + Oliver fight was the best of the season imo, I loved it. And I got a Lyla/Oliver moment! I love their friendship.

 

 

Katie Cassidy continues to not be able to act. No wonder SA isn't making eye contact with her, he's trying to not laugh at her line readings. Please let Laurel Lance be the one in the grave.

A thousand times yes. I'm sorry, I can't. I just can't with Laurel, all she has to do is to be there and I cringe and I want to fast-forward. It's worse now that she's on the team, because I like less moments that I would have loved otherwise. In the first scene where she appeared, I wanted to digitally erase her and enjoy some Lyla/Oliver/Thea interaction in peace.

As far as I'm concerned, Oliver should have discussed Felicity with Diggle or Thea, you know, his bro and his sister.

 

I'm going to miss Amanda Waller.  You never quite knew where you were with her.  Why does this show kill all the grey females and keep the men? 

And the not great female.

Can DC please make a Black Canary movie within the next three months? Thanks!

[bijoux]

It feels so good to have a villian of the week again. It allows the team to be effective instead of waiting for Darhk to figure out what he wants to do.

[AudienceofOne]

This episode was amazing. It made me miss the island flashbacks. I fastforwarded through half of it. Miss anything?

 

Find it hard to believe they killed Waller. That's a bold move.

[wonderwall]

I don't understand why people think Felicity hallucinated Goth felicity in a matter of seconds? She was obviously taking those pills regularly, her hallucinations could've come from the dose Oliver gave her a few hours earlier

[EmilyBettFan]

Now that he's staying with Diggle, I'm so relieved Andy can finally go to the bathroom now. Maybe take a shower. Freshen up a bit. LOL.

freaking dying over here over this. lmao

[looptab]

IT WAS A MISTAKE.

Don't be so hard on yourself! We all know MG was gonna do it anyway. Way to throw fans under the bus, though, instead of calling it as what it is: shameless self-promotion.

 

How dare you! Go watch S1 Laurel and Oliver scenes (or any Laurel and Oliver scenes) as penance.

That's cruel and unusual punishment!

 

 

Anyway, what's left to say? I loved it. Great performances, great moments. Well done. I loved Felicity, Gothlicity, Diggle, Lyla, and Oliver.

 

 Thea would have been inappropriate. 

Why would she have been inappropriate? Honest question.

Honestly, I didn't have any problem with the sparring scene, except the same one I had with their scene in episode 9. Once again, Laurel is telling Oliver he doesn't have to blame himself, and, once again, it doesn't ring true to me. At all. She has no idea that this is his MO. I agree with the people who said that that scene could have been with anybody else, and that's why I think it should have been. Dig was busy? Perfect, Thea then. And, honestly, I could have done without the "we used to date" comment, it was not here nor there. I started cringing.

 

But, first time in the series Laurel knows something that no one else does? YAY?

 

Oliver and Felicity were amazing. After that speeches scene in the lair (and damn SA's teary eyes), and the last scene in the room, I don't think I'll recover soon. BTW, I had always imagined at some point Felicity showing him some photo of her goth phase. In my scenario, though, she commented on his douchebag haircut (although she found him cute like that, in show- How?Why?)

People who've worn their hair like this shouldn't be allowed to be critical of others' fashion choices :P

 

Exactly.

 

Stray thoughts:

I liked Amanda Waller. NIce scene with Lyla and Oliver.

Diggle and Felicity actually TALKED.

Where in the loft is their closet? 

[paigow]

Can DC please make a Black Canary movie within the next three months? Thanks!

Who would be BC???? 

[bijoux]

Where in the loft is their closet? 

 

That's a good question. Maybe Curtis chose her outfit and that's why she was in an uncharacteristic midi skirt. Though I did notice the slit.

[Genki]

Felicity's outfit change to visit the lair in the middle of the night seemed weird to me, but I like knowing that she dresses to project who she wants to be. I liked a lot of the insights into Felicity's character, when Felicity wanted to stop being angry goth, she basically channeled, her Mother , blonde hair, bright clothes, independent* and positive attitude. (I think this was sub-conscious based on her reaction when Donna 1st appeared)

 

Also knowing that Gothlicity was so angry, shows that she can regress to the brittle, cold-rage shown in last week's flash forward. All the reveals tie well with what we already know and have seen with regards to Felicity.

 

Also Felicity does not read on a tablet or Kindle? Maybe it was Oliver's book. I know it was for the visual gag....which was cute

 

Oliver was great he really was spot-on with how he interacted with Felicity.

 

Thank you show for advising 1 month had past, maybe that was the point of the sparring scene. I would have prefer Thea/Oliver

 

Lyla is the best, I love all her appearances, and the Diggle/Michale's are the best family (Don't mess with hem Andy!!)

I really hope we get more of them.

 

I liked the fight scenes better but couldn't help wondering where all the ARGUS agents hostages went after they shot Waller, I will fanwank that Lyla negotiated their safety...cause she is awesome.

 

Really good solid episode, some mini eye-rolls (simultaneous jump down, No update security at Argus, Overwatch-meta reasons make it that way, otherwise solid name for Felicity's position on the team and something that has been used before), but so small compared to the overall awesome.

 

*Donna can give the impression of someone who always has/needs/wants a man, but I know she independently raised Felicity, and did all she could to give her the best could.

[wonderwall]

Sure, Gothlicity was fanservice,

I wouldn't consider Goth Felicity fanservice considering Goth Felicity had a purpose in this episode. Not only that but literally no one was asking for more goth Felicity. Not even Felicity fans because I don't think they thought it was within the realm of possibilities to ever see her again. 

 

I'll never get how the Oliver we saw tonight is the same one that ditched Felicity last week and lied to her about BM. It's like character whiplash.

 

 

But that was the point of last week's episode. It was to show that Oliver, in times of emotional stress tends to become a hermit and run away. That's what the show tried to depict last episode. And by going to Felicity in the end and telling her that what he did was "unforgivable" was him actually learning from his mistake. And this episode showed that he did because he stood right by her the entire time (Felicity even thanked Oliver for that). Yay! Progress!

 

Can you imagine if this was a S2 episode? Felicity wouldve become a full on druggie.

Well... No. Because Felicity and Laurel are different characters. While Laurel has been portrayed to not be able to deal with her issues head on and tend to escape into certain addictions, after Tommy's death she couldn't deal and escaped her issues with drugs, and in season 3 she traded her addiction for drugs with fighting (something that was never resolved even though Oliver pointed it out that she was an addict)... Felicity, on the other hand, deals with her issues completely differently, she faces her emotions head on instead of feeling sorry for herself or start to slowly kill herself by becoming a drug addict. And that is a direct result from her father leaving her, because while her father leaving her tore Felicity apart at a very young age, it also made her stronger in dealing with adversity. But without all the knowledge of what happened to Felicity, I myself wouldn't believe Felicity to become a drug addict after what we saw in S1 especially after the Undertaking. It doesn't feel very in character for her.

 

I really don't see a problem with the laurel/Oliver scene. Thea would have been inappropriate. Dig was busy. And as Laurel pointed out, she was a unique character in having that former relationship with Oliver. I thought it worked well.

 

Why would it have been an inappropriate conversation with Thea? It could've worked just fine with a few adjustments in the dialogue. 

Edited January 28, 2016 by wonderwall

[bijoux]

But that was the point of last week's episode. It was to show that Oliver, in times of emotional stress tends to become a hermit and run away. That's what the show tried to depict last episode. And by going to Felicity in the end and telling her that what he did was "unforgivable" was him actually learning from his mistake. And this episode showed that he did because he stood right by her the entire time (Felicity even thanked Oliver for that). Yay! Progress!

 

This. And wonder of wonders, the lesson sticks for at least some months to come according to last week's flash forward. 

 

I have a question. What happened to all the A.R.G.U.S. agents who were there when Shadowspire came guns blazing? In the end there were Oliver, Lyla, Dig and Andy fighting Joyner and his crew. Did they put them in cells somewhere or was A.R.G.U.S. in their hands for a really long time if Joyner was taking them out at 20 minutes intervals?

[millennium]

The Diggles (John and Andy) bore the hell out of me and I think the show would be much better without them. 

 

The Duelling Felicitys was OTT.   A writers' conceit, wholly unbelievable. 

 

The Shadowspire plotline seemed to serve no purpose other than a contrivance to drive a Diggle-centric episode

 

I have no idea what this show is about anymore, but it's not about the Green Arrow.

[theacostov]

I loved this episode. Almost every scene had a point and there didn't seem to be scenes just so everyone could be included. Thea took a backseat this ep which was fine since she had a bigger role last week. It was refreshing to not have any ghosts this episode, and have another source of evil, and it seems the flashbacks may start to have a point, although I'm going to need a cliff-notes version of what has been happening in them this season because zzzzz.  

 

I'm annoyed they killed Waller, although I was so engrossed in the episode I didn't see it happening so I was genuinely surprised. That doesn't happen too often on this show anymore. I wish that she had gone out in a better way though, maybe cause a bit more destruction before she went. It was nice to see her grey morals very much in tact till the end though. 

 

I really enjoyed the Diggle's, Andy's character is much more interesting with the potential for him to double-cross Diggle. Lyla is awesome, and the only silver lining to Amanda's death is that it might allow Lyla to take over Argus and be involved more. Which in turn involves Diggle more and hence he can't die (please don't have Andy lead to Diggle's death show).

 

Felicity's story line was much better than I could have hoped for. It allowed an introspection into the choices she has made and EBR killed it. We actually got her POV on what she was feeling, and what she wanted. It's amazing how much better a story can be when we get an actual POV. I just love the journey she's been on, and I like the possibility of a cure being left open especially as realism is a thing way in the past now.

 

The Olicity scenes were beautiful. EBR and SA have such ridiculous chemistry and just make such a believable couple. I'm pretty sure if anyone else was playing these characters I wouldn't be half as invested. It's their chemistry that prevents me from being able to quit when the writing gets really bad (looking at you 4x08 and S3). Their chemistry might be what gets me through the resolution of that awful BM lie that is hanging over them. Also, it really does seem like Oliver's forgotten about his kid, or there's some really good compartmentalization going on.  

 

I could actually see what was happening in most of the fight scenes and they had emotional resonance so they automatically made me care, not something that I can say for a lot of the fights this season. A couple of things did take me out of the show like the codes not being changed in like a year, but the rest of the episode was so good that I can let that go.

 

This episode actually reminded me a lot of 2x06, one of my all time favs. See Arrow, you can be brilliant if you want to be.  

[bijoux]

I loved this episode. Almost every scene had a point and there didn't seem to be scenes just so everyone could be included. Thea took a backseat this ep which was fine since she had a bigger role last week. 

 

And you know what else? This director steered clear of the usual style of let's cut the scene 15 seconds before we should, instead letting them breathe. It took me a while to figure out that this is something that really helped me enjoy the episode.

[johntfs]

"For my part, I'm cool with "Overwatch" as a code name.  When you think about, it's pretty much what Felicity does on mission.

[Morrigan2575]

"For my part, I'm cool with "Overwatch" as a code name.  When you think about, it's pretty much what Felicity does on mission.

The problem with Overwatch is that it's Guggie's freaking ego shining through because, he wrote an entire book called Overwatch.  I'm sure most people who aren't online and don't follow the EPs are cool with her name.  Which is totally fair, but it's just Guggie stroking his giant freaking ego, that's why I detest it.

[GirlvsTV]

But that was the point of last week's episode. It was to show that Oliver, in times of emotional stress tends to become a hermit and run away. That's what the show tried to depict last episode. And by going to Felicity in the end and telling her that what he did was "unforgivable" was him actually learning from his mistake. And this episode showed that he did because he stood right by her the entire time (Felicity even thanked Oliver for that)

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. The only way I can stomach Oliver right now is if I put last week's nonsense in the "Stupid stuff the writers make Oliver do for dumb plot" column. Otherwise, I'm just left with a selfish dick who couldn't get over himself long enough to be with the ONE person who had always been there for him.

For me, this Oliver was pretty well inline with the Oliver we've seen throughout this season - except for the versions we got in 4x8 and 4x10 which feel like pod!Olivers to me.

[looptab]

They dropped an 8 years reference wrt Andy again. Maybe they have forgotten about last year's fb episode?

[Sakura12]

Do you guys really think Andy is staying over at the Diggles' after this episode?

 

Well Patty moved out, so they have room. 

[tv echo]

       

 

"... except when I'm on the side of my Baby Mama."

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Even though I loved this episode (for all the reasons others have stated above), it was still shadowed by the knowledge of what Oliver did (or didn't do) in 408.

 

I thought the Oliver/Laurel scene was fine, although I didn't see the point of it other than bringing up the time travel thing.  Later in the episode, Felicity gives the same "it's not your fault, it's the fault of DD" speech to Oliver.  So really, the only point of the Oliver/Laurel scene was for Oliver to tell Laurel about Barry's time travel in 408 - which just seemed out of place in this episode.

 

Someone above was asking about what Oliver said in that scene with Laurel.  Here's video of that scene (audio is odd in this video, though):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTp7z_AO8Ok

Edited January 28, 2016 by tv echo

[benteen]

People who've worn their hair like this shouldn't be allowed to be critical of others' fashion choices :P

 

 

Good lord, Oliver looks like a preppy murderer and rapist in that picture.

Edited January 28, 2016 by benteen

[blixie]

Well that was a really well done, fun, action packed, yet balanced by emotional beats episodes of Arrow, so they CAN still do it. I'm not surprised it's an episode the focused on Dig/Felicity that was the best in a while, cause they are the heart of this show. Hell I even thought Laurel was fine, minimal shots of arms being crossed, almost zero petulant lecturing, good job!

 

At first I had a bit of the problem with the actor they cast as Andy in terms of his look, not really feeling they look like Brothers, but I thought their massive differences in how they present played very well into perhaps his resentments and insecurities, it's hard enough to  fail in life but to toss in constantly comparing yourself or being compared to John Diggle? Yeah I can see getting frustrated.

[bijoux]

They dropped an 8 years reference wrt Andy again. Maybe they have forgotten about last year's fb episode?

As well as Lance going to Darhk for intel this season and specifically mentioning six years.

[tarotx]

Aww Oliver would still rather be with Felicity-he just has stupid instincts to keep secrets when he's asked. I blame Amanda for making Oliver an ARGUS agent ;) 

"... except when I'm on the side of my Baby Mama."

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Even though I loved this episode (for all the reasons others have stated above), it was still shadowed by the knowledge of what Oliver did (or didn't do) in 408.

 

I thought the Oliver/Laurel scene was fine, although I didn't see the point of it other than bringing up the time travel thing.  Later in the episode, Felicity gives the same "it's not your fault, it's the fault of DD" speech to Oliver.  So really, the only point of the Oliver/Laurel scene was for Oliver to tell Laurel about Barry's time travel in 408 - which just seemed out of place in this episode.

 

Someone above was asking about what Oliver said in that scene with Laurel.  Here's video of that scene (audio is odd in this video, though):

.... youtube..... YTp7z_AO8Ok

I didn't even notice that Laurel and Oliver weren't sparing on Felicity's computer area Unlike with laurel and Sara. Oliver has some sense.

 

Edited January 28, 2016 by tarotx

[jay741982]

"... except when I'm on the side of my Baby Mama."

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Even though I loved this episode (for all the reasons others have stated above), it was still shadowed by the knowledge of what Oliver did (or didn't do) in 408.

 

I thought the Oliver/Laurel scene was fine, although I didn't see the point of it other than bringing up the time travel thing.  Later in the episode, Felicity gives the same "it's not your fault, it's the fault of DD" speech to Oliver.  So really, the only point of the Oliver/Laurel scene was for Oliver to tell Laurel about Barry's time travel in 408 - which just seemed out of place in this episode.

 

Someone above was asking about what Oliver said in that scene with Laurel.  Here's video of that scene (audio is odd in this video, though):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTp7z_AO8Ok

LOL Laurels face In that pic! Good "derp" face

[Delphi]

Okay, so inappropriate was a strong word, I wine watch this show now so I get a bit overdramatic. What I meant moreso, that though me and my sister are the Tam siblings level of close, she's rarely the first person I go to when I'm having troubles with my boyfriend. Usually I go to another friend.

Also I liked that Laurel explained to Oliver that not only does he blame himself for things that go wrong in every day vigilante life but also in his romantic endeavours. I can't recall most of season three, but did anyone point out to him that the date bomb wasn't completely his fault?

Eta: I woke up very annoyed this morning. I was barging around my room very upset and couldn't figure it out and the boyfriend just says "Overwatch" and it clicked. So I guess I'm still pissed.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Delphi

[jay741982]

I'm thinking when Felicity dumps Oliver it's cause of a number of things combined together

[blixie]

 

I actually think these scenes that aren't necessary add to the show. They should have been doing this kind of thing all along with different characters in different variations just talking to each other about life while doing random things. That's how you build a believable team with believable friendships.

 

 

I missed this a few pages back, but I wanted to say how much this is TRUTH. The particular thing they had Oliver confide was a little WTF sure, but I think it's nice moment to see these two confiding with each other and having Laurel mostly not be Laurel (calm, kind, not judgemental) which is all I've been asking for 4  years now SHOW your version of Laurel sucks, it is wrong, if you will not kill her off CHANGE her. And we need more of that, between Laurel and Oliver, Diggle and Thea, Felicity and Lila, mix these characters up, give us fresh perspectives on them, jesus it's not that hard.

[cambridgeguy]

 

I'm thinking when Felicity dumps Oliver it's cause of a number of things combined together

Why would that be the case?  In the original timeline Felicity dumped Ollie because he lied to her about his kid, a lie that Oliver had perpetrated for a couple of days at the most.  When she finds out this time he will have kept that secret for a couple of months so Oliver cannot offer the being too overwhelmed to think straight excuse.  This is a big time dealbreaker that only becomes bigger over time.

 

It was nice that Oliver did point out how in their world of superpowers, advanced technology, and mystical resurrections permanent paralysis doesn't mean anything.  Unless, of course, EBR suddenly decided she wanted to be sitting in all of her scenes instead of the usual 60-70%.

[blixie]

 

When she finds out this time he will have kept that secret for a couple of months so Oliver cannot offer the being too overwhelmed to think straight excuse.

 

I can NOT believe I'm about to say this but if anything Oliver should be more overwhelmed to tell her, given the backstory as to why he's still around to lie to her in the first place. Which would carry more weight if he didn't just blab to Laurel about the alternate time line, but still Oliver is certainly dumb enough to think I can't tell her because Barry said telling her about alternate time line is bad juju, and if  I admit I lied about BM, I'll have to tell her why I waited so long and indeed why he waited so long is because he died in previous time line and then Barry erased it and then Barry broke his own bad juju rule and told Oliver something from the alternate time line and LORD it's a lot so I can see him deciding it's one giant tar pit of NO, rather than just cutting through all that with I have a son, I found out here, I didn't tell you because I'm a dumb, insecure asshole who doesn't deserve you, I hope to God I can eventually win back your trust and love.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I got ridiculously happy when I saw his bare feet.  Like I squeed and giggled out loud.

I liked it too, mostly because for a show that has such crazy improbably things (ahem, like Laurel somehow training enough to go out fighting with Oliver), it was a small but realistic detail that he would be barefoot and then hop onto the bed so she could show him what was in the mystery box (ha, not a euphemism!).

 

I never liked Amanda so I'm not sad that she's gone. To me she's just another tertiary character who died.

 

I totally loved the scrub who Diggle put in a chokehold. When he hit the floor and his legs flopped, I totally laughed.

 

I still don't trust Andy. For all I know, tonight's whole thing was a long con to get his brother to trust him again just so he can betray him at the end of the season. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

 

It brings me some joy to think of Donna trying to deal with Goth Felicity when she came home for Christmas during college.

Edited January 28, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Primetimer]

Felicity has a personality crisis, while John and Andy Diggle reach an understanding.

Read the story

[SmallScreenDiva]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but Laurel actually looked pretty good boxing. Solid punches, good stance. Didn't even need a stunt double, I think. It even made sense that she was training with Oliver. I can see it my head, Oliver, all frustrated and feeling guilty, went down to the lair after Felicity's blowup. He probably thought of doing some training himself then saw Laurel boxing and decided, "Hey I'm beating myself up, why don't I have somebody do it for me?"

Edited January 28, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[bethy]

Where did that picture of serial-killer Oliver come from? Did they take it as part of the show? Did they dig up a hilarious picture of SA from a previous show he was on? For some reason the second option would be awesome to me, imagining someone finding that picture and being all, "Heh."

[bijoux]

It's one of the pics used in the pilot when the news reported he was back from the dead. This one stuck.

[dtissagirl]

Why would that be the case?  In the original timeline Felicity dumped Ollie because he lied to her about his kid, a lie that Oliver had perpetrated for a couple of days at the most.  When she finds out this time he will have kept that secret for a couple of months so Oliver cannot offer the being too overwhelmed to think straight excuse.  This is a big time dealbreaker that only becomes bigger over time.

 

My favorite part about the lie is --

 

1. Barry ASSUMED Felicity broke up with Oliver, but for all we know, she just stormed off in anger, which is something that's been established as what Felicity does when she's raging.

 

2. Barry knows about the kid, so the "you can't ever let anyone know" clause BM put on it is moot.

 

It's all Barry's fault, really. EVERYTHING. I need Oliver to break up with Barry.

[TVHappy9463]

I would have liked this episode better if the hallucinations weren't wrapped up so quickly. But, this show is pretty good at introducing ideas, and killing them so not surprised.  So, Felicity is going to walk again thru magic provided by Damien Darhk as foreshadowed by Oliver's comments at the end.  Oliver saved DD's family so natch he owes him a favor, because the bigger bad is yet to come. 
I thought it was funny that KC employed the same habit SA has of not looking his scene partners in the eye in their scene together.  I am not sure why the directors allow that acting choice.  When you can't look someone in the eye it conveys deception and avoidance.  
The flashbacks continue to be clunky and kill the flow.  BTW got my Felicity Funk POP doll yesterday!

[bijoux]

My favorite part about the lie is --

 

1. Barry ASSUMED Felicity broke up with Oliver, but for all we know, she just stormed off in anger, which is something that's been established as what Felicity does when she's raging.

 

2. Barry knows about the kid, so the "you can't ever let anyone know" clause BM put on it is moot.

 

It's all Barry's fault, really. EVERYTHING. I need Oliver to break up with Barry.

k

Heh about the last point. But yeah, what the hell are you doing taking advice in that area from Barry. You go to someone with credentials. Namely, Dig.

Though to be fair, I was actually thinking Oliver was referring to something else with this happening being his fault. I only saw the crossover once so correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Barry finally advise him to tell Felicity the truth, otherwise it would be messing with the timeline since she found out in the original one? So I took it as Oliver maybe interpreting that as having some sort of butterfly effect that led to the shooting and Felicity being wounded. He even scoffed at Barry's idea that the universe didn't care about what he told his girlfriend. And I guess now I read it as him possibly thinking, Oh my God! Does the universe care?!

[dtissagirl]

He even scoffed at Barry's idea that the universe didn't care about what he told his girlfriend. And I guess now I read it as him possibly thinking, Oh my God! Does the universe care?!

 

Yup, that's what I'm now thinking as well. Oliver legit brought up *time travel* as what's freaking him out, not the fact that he's not telling anyone about the demon spawn. Not that I trust this show in any way, but that was so completely random that it's gotta mean something.

[Lady Calypso]

The problem with Overwatch is that it's Guggie's freaking ego shining through because, he wrote an entire book called Overwatch.  I'm sure most people who aren't online and don't follow the EPs are cool with her name.  Which is totally fair, but it's just Guggie stroking his giant freaking ego, that's why I detest it.

 

I really really, really agree with this post. When watching the episode, I thought the codename really fit. Once Oliver used it the second time, I was already getting comfortable. And then I came on here and remembered the reason why 'Overwatch' is the worst codename ever and I am now bitter that I like it. 

 

Ok, so it's clear that every single writer and director have chosen to ignore the Baby Mama storyline UNTIL they're forced to acknowledge it in their episode (and with good reason). We don't see Oliver making dramatic faces whenever lying/secrets come up, we see him growing and being supportive and for me, it's weird but I haven't seen them build up to this huge fall out that Oliver and Felicity are supposedly going to have. Maybe it's just me, but I feel like there has to be more to their supposed break-up than the lie coming out, or else everything they've been doing with these two don't make as much sense.

 

Sure, Felicity will get outright pissed at him lying, and go her for feeling that way. But her getting so mad that she breaks up and their relationship is rocky and distant, as shown by the flashforward three months into the future? Nuh-uh, not buying it, not when episodes have contradicted this. That's why I have to believe that something bigger happens that contributes to this. Maybe it's me with too much hope, and I know Guggie is going to be directly involved with this crappy storyline, but the fact that the other writers and directors choose to flourish Oliver and Felicity's relationship and they chose to ignore the Baby Mama storyline (I guess they have since season 2, when it was introduced) makes me think that only Guggie thought it was a good idea, which means he's going to mess this up by making them all out of character. All I can see is two characters being bogged down to dumbness and out of character behaviour, all because one idiotic man decides that he wants to write the worst storyline ever in the worst possible way for drama. So I'm bitter. 

 

 

...right, the rest of the episode. Because that's a thing. It was pretty solid. It felt like a season 1/2 episode again, which was nice. Less Thea, which is ok with me. She's been bugging me a lot this season; I think I like her better when Roy's around. Mostly it helps because Thea's the youngest, and by a LOT, so her only hanging around her brother and his friends is weird. Her having Roy allowed her to maintain...something, her innocence I guess? 

 

Laurel? Surprisingly helpful this episode. I guess the Legends of Tomorrow pilot was supposed to take place after this episode, so Laurel could be more comfortable with time travel. Ok, I'm fine with that. Plus, she looked good and she talked about Felicity and supported Oliver. I didn't necessarily buy it 100% from KC, but I can see the intent and that she tried. 

 

The Diggle storyline was great; The flashbacks this episode are the best of the season, that's for sure. Not saying that they were amazing, but it's not hard to one up Poppy and the crap flashbacks we've been getting (the Constatine flashback episode aside). I liked that Andy actually helped out his brother and Lyla, and he got to meet baby Sara! Cute! 

 

Goth Felicity? Fantastic, and used just sparingly enough for me to enjoy her. I think the fact that she chose to keep fighting and not give in to her bitter, goth self made me really enjoy seeing her POV AND it further explains why I can't buy this massive break up in the upcoming episodes, even with the content of the big secret that Oliver's been keeping. The fact that we don't see Felicity regress this episode, AND have her deal with her internal issues and talk about it with Oliver makes me really, really bitter about what's going to happen. It makes me buy the upcoming storylines less because it contradicts things with their characters, or at least Felicity's character. 

 

Gah, this is just bitter me ranting. I'll take my further rants to another thread. 

 

Cute Olicity is cute. Supportive Oliver is supportive. He's learning! He's growing! It's great and fantastic and I love their relationship so much. Why must it be ruined by one man's selfish need to destroy their happiness? 

[Kymmi]

The Laurel/Oliver scene?  No, just no.  First of all, no one should EVER start a sentence “As the only other member of the team that has dated you”, but then to follow it up with “Be kind to yourself” or whatever drivel she was given to say???  The Oliver Queen that dated Laurel Lance was a tool.  He certainly NEVER gave himself a hard time, even when he treated Laurel like dirt.   Sure, he may beat himself up now that he’s the Arrow version of Oliver Queen, and it’s ok for her to point that out.  But it doesn’t connect to when Laurel dated Oliver.  So odd and out of touch.  Horrible little scene that made me feel bad for Laurel.  Yuck.