S06.E03: Season 6, Episode 3

[bmoore4026]

Everybody's making fun of Allan Leech's weight.  I didn't notice a thing.  I thought he looked fine :(

[HoodlumSheep]

Edith and Guy-Edith (Bertie?) are adorable together.

Cora was rude; glad she apologized.

Something's going to happen with Lord Grantham.

I'm in the minority that I enjoy all the old people sitting around in a circle and squabbling at each other. I find it hilarious. i like Spratt too, but I can do without Ms. Denker.

The wedding was nice, but I still don't like Hughes and Carson together.

Mary's smile when Tom showed up. :') I don't think she's smiled that big since Evelyn showed up in season 4.

daisy needs to just stop. Like, now. Go away.

Mosely and Baxter are saints. Not enough Baxley.

[HoodlumSheep]

^ he looks fine to me. :)

I forgot to mention that I liked the Thomas/old guy scene until the end, when the old guy showed his...oldness and the republican stuff. His talk of diamonds and women and dances makes me believe that he belongs in Paris.

Edited January 19, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[mightycrone]

His talk of diamonds and women and dances makes me believe that he belongs in Paris.

 

It made me think he should work in a mansion on Sunset Boulevard, penning "fan" letters for his employer, while she has her facial, in preparation of her close up . . .

[txhorns79]

Thomas has seniority and has worked as a footman so could go back to doing more footman work if Andrew were let go. He might grumble vaguely (or openly) downstairs, but he'd do the work because he doesn't want to be unemployed. Andrew is the one who seems superfluous.

 

I think it would be a pretty big demotion to go from underbutler to footman, and with that demotion would come crappier work and lower pay.  I honestly think it would be seen as an insult by Thomas, and likely the rest of the staff.  Yes, Thomas could stay employed, but I think it would be kind of humiliating. 

Edited January 19, 2016 by txhorns79

[lucindabelle]

Everybody's making fun of Allan Leech's weight.  I didn't notice a thing.  I thought he looked fine :(

Oh, I wouldn't kick him out of bed for eating crackers. As the saying goes. He's rocking the chubby.

 

Oh and-- that was a BIG grin from Mary when she learned Anna might be pregnant! made me feel very warm towards her.

[TVFAN]

The hospital plot is not the most exciting plot this year, but I must say I have some sympathy for the Dowager Countess.  Almost everyone is acting as if change is always positive, and I think the Dowager has a point about the hospital.  It's true that being swallowed by the larger hospital may afford people in the village access to better technology, but it will not come without a cost.   From movie theaters, to stores, to doctors who make house calls, small towns used to have a host of benefits.  Ultimately merging with the larger hospital will be the first step in closing the village's own hospital and losing doctors who actually know them, their medical history, and even their families' medical histories.  Local control has some real plusses.   

 

Tom and Sybbie are back where they belong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I don't see how coming to the reception ruined anything for the bride and groom.  They looked every bit as pleased as the family did.  Besides, on some levels, Tom is to the new Mrs. Carson what Mary is to Mr. Carson, the child she never had.  (She has consoled him, advised him, and dealt with the predatory maid for him.)  She must have been thrilled that he was there on her special day.  

 

And Sybbie is the best little actress.  I wish they gave her more lines.  She and Donk are infinitely more interesting that Spratt and Denker.  

 

Mary and Anna, BFFs!  It was so nice seeing happy Anna.  And Mary was almost as thrilled as Anna.  She even had the good sense to make sure that Anna knew she could go on leave if she liked.

 

That was some spread at the reception.  It really was kind of the Crawleys to foot the bill.  

[Kohola3]

Perhaps Robert's thought is that, with Thomas gone, he will elevate Moseley to butler when Carson (soon I hope!) retires.

 

Maybe I missed it but had Robert ever said anything about dumping Thomas?  I know he's made references to downsizing the staff but did he finger Thomas as expendable?  It's been a mystery to me why Carson has been so nasty since I don't have any recollection of Robert singling out Thomas.

[SoSueMe]

On a dark Yorkshire highway

Cool wind in my hair

Warm smell of Patmore's cooking

Rising up through the air

..........

So I called Mr Carson,

"Please bring me my wine"

He said, "We haven't had that spirit here since eighteen sixty-nine"

 

 

I'm growing weary of this no one can ever leave Downton. What is it, the Hotel California of England? I love Tom, he's always been one of my favorite characters, but I kind of eyerolled at his return. I was hoping he would make a life for himself in America, maybe remarry. (pleasepleaseplease don't pair him with Mary)

I don't know why Edith even has to think twice about moving to London. She has a nice flat, a job, she's not "Edith, Mary's sister" there. She should have opted to move last episode instead of forcing the Drewes off their farm. That was cruel.

Then, there's Barrow saying he wants to stay in Yorkshire. Why? Wouldn't he have so many more options in London or really, anywhere else? He could be as out as the times allowed. In real life, he would have been long gone.

And Mary looks like Johnny Depp's version of Willy Wonka every time she wears one of those hats.

Wow, Glenn Frey died today (Eagles, Hotel California) What a sad coincidence.

[RedHawk]

I think it would be a pretty big demotion to go from underbutler to footman, and with that demotion would come crappier work and lower pay.  I honestly think it would be seen as an insult by Thomas, and likely the rest of the staff.  Yes, Thomas could stay employed, but I think it would kind of humiliating. 

What I meant is that if they let the "last hired" go, Moseley and Thomas would be expected to pick up extra work and do what Andrew is currently doing. Thomas would not so much be demoted and given lesser pay as expected to do extra work that formerly was "footman" work he was promoted out of, but when staff is reduced would be just more "under-butler" duties. I agree, humiliating, and what happens with many companies today. Reduce staff and share the work out between the remaining workers. 

Edited January 19, 2016 by RedHawk

[helenamonster]

I love Mary's continuing ennui. "Tom wrote me a very sad letter. I'll have to write him back - after the wedding." Because you have so much else to do.

 

I got the impression that she was going to wait until after the wedding so that she could tell him about the wedding.

 

In answer to someone up thread, we did see Cora taking the tour. I remember the mention of the walls being just newly painted.

 

Cora's reaction to the servant's trying on her clothes was what I think would be typical even had she not had a bad day. She didn't know they had permission from Mary. For all she knew they took advantage of her being gone and were pilfering through her things. Servants were barely allowed upstairs, much less allowed to go through her things.

 

I didn't see a scene of Cora at the hospital. My PBS station must have cut it (I'm in the greater New York City area).

 

Re: the dress drama, one thing that crossed my mind that might also have contributed to Cora's anger...for all she knows, this might not even be the first time the servants have gone riffling through her things without permission. Yes, Mrs. Hughes, Mrs. Patmore, and Anna are three of the family's most loyal servants, but they could have been in there before, and this time they were just unlucky enough to get caught. Idk, I understand her anger. I had a roommate who used to go through my stuff when I wasn't around (I would find things in places that I knew I hadn't left them), and we were both entitled to the room that we shared. There are pretty clear rules about when and why servants are allowed in Her Ladyship's bedroom.

 

I think in the end all that matters is that when she finally had all the information, Cora apologized. That said more to me than her original freakout.

 

Since it appeared to be some sort of ladies magazine

------------------------------------

Maybe not, though. English publications generally have a "Court and Social" page. I am a journalist, too. I worked for a paper that covers Capitol Hill politics, policy making, and people. When an English editor-in-chief came on board he added a "Social Scene" page of photos and very brief text. (There had been a photo page, but it was not "social," just cherry blossoms or snow at the Capitol and the like.) Soft features are a thing across the board. ("Soft" is relative, of course.)

So I'd like to think, at least, that the magazine is something like Harper's or The Atlantic. (I'm not putting my former paper in that fine company! LOL!) Or Edith's could be more ephemeral, but not totally puff stuff. I thought it was literary, more The New Yorker.

(I cannot italicize, as a good writer should, on the iPad.)

 

It is a women's magazine, The Sketch.

 

I think it was a safety issue for men who worked with machinery.

---------

Yes, definitely. My younger brother works for a small manufacturer in our tiny home town (in 2016!), and he only would wear his ring if they went out or it was a special occasion. Carson's work, though, wouldn't really pose any potential for ring-related injuries (which can be really severe).

 

Just ask Jimmy Fallon. He doesn't have a dangerous manufacturing job and that didn't stop him from getting a pretty nasty ring-related injury.

 

He was written out so we'd get the heart-wrenching parting, but brought back presumably as the endgame for Mary.

 

I don't think Tom is Mary's endgame. I think Gareth Neame said years ago that it wasn't going to happen. And I just don't see any foreshadowing pointing to it. This show usually isn't subtle about foreshadowing (hey there, Robert's "indegestion").

 

Cora's dresses would be too small, too, wouldn't they? I perceive those two actresses as being very different sizes! A coat would more easily fit a variety of sizes, though.

 

I saw the DA costume exhibit at Winterthur a couple years ago, and based on the dresses of Cora's that they had, Elizabeth McGovern is deceptively tall. According to IMDb, she's 5'9''. Phyllis Logan's height isn't listed but I don't think she's that tall.

 

Maybe I missed it but had Robert ever said anything about dumping Thomas?  I know he's made references to downsizing the staff but did he finger Thomas as expendable?  It's been a mystery to me why Carson has been so nasty since I don't have any recollection of Robert singling out Thomas.

 

Yes, Robert has--perhaps not in so many words--fingered Thomas's position as the one that should probably be the first to go, finding it the most superfluous. It doesn't help that Thomas isn't well-liked among either the family or the other staff (some of that dislike is undeserved, but a lot of it is).

 

If the scene between Edith and Bertie doing the magazine layout had taken place 2 seasons ago, I'd be into it. But now Edith's appearance onscreen either causes me to blackout in a fit of rage or signals to me that it's a good time to get a snack.

 

There was a quick moment of shoddy camera work during the scene where Sergeant Willis comes to see Spratt. The camera was on Sergeant Willis and the frame was still, and then suddenly it just got wobbly, like someone had bumped into it during filming. And this goes beyond the usual "shaky cam" that I know the show uses deliberately for downstairs scenes. It bothered me because surely they did several takes of the scene? Idk how that could get missed in the editing room when scenes get watched over and over again when I noticed it at first watch.

[WatchrTina]

Maybe I missed it but had Robert ever said anything about dumping Thomas?

He said to Carson when he first brought up the subject of needing to down-size "Who has an under-butler these days?"  So I'd say that puts Thomas right in the cross-hairs.  Add to that that I think Carson is contemplating retiring and he wants his "family" looked after properly after he goes.  Thomas, as under-butler, would be first in line to replace Carson and I think Carson wants him long-gone to ensure THAT doesn't happen.  Thomas has shown his dark side too many times over the years for anyone below-stairs to want him in charge.

[txhorns79]

I saw the DA costume exhibit at Winterthur a couple years ago, and based on the dresses of Cora's that they had, Elizabeth McGovern is deceptively tall. According to IMDb, she's 5'9''. Phyllis Logan's height isn't listed but I don't think she's that tall.

 

The internet suggests Phyllis Logan is 5'5.  Cora's coat would have to be substantially hemmed to keep Mrs. Hughes from tripping over it or dragging it on the floor. 

 

 

Idk, I understand her anger.

 

I understood her anger as well.  Obviously, the anger was completely inappropriate because it was a misunderstanding, but I wouldn't be thrilled if I walked into my bedroom to find people who had no business there trying on my clothes. 

[Mrsjumbo]

I thought Cora toured the Downton little hospital (fresh coat of paint) where Violet, Dr Clarkson & Isobel were listening to her remarks.

I thought at a later date we did not see her tour the more modern hospital for comparison. Then she had lunch with them to give her opinion. That's when she proclaimed the lunch as "dreadful" & had a headache.

[SusanSunflower]

Aside from Clarkson and Violet's egos I'm not sure what the objections to the merger really are ... Clarkson can still continue to practice in Downton Village as a local doctor and he will then have the support of the medical staff both for consultations but also so he can have time/days off.  I'd say he's too good and conscientious a doctor (for all his errors in the past) to hold out very long ... and we see him failing Violet's obstinance but without explanation ... feh.  

As usual, we have no idea if the population of Downton has recovered from warttime losses or if jobs elsewhere has shrunk it further ... whatever became of all that post-war housing Matthew, Tom and Robert had planned ... and even started ?? 

 

I will be very annoyed if Moseley and Baxter do not get their happy ending ... I just remember Moseley attempting to woo Anna, way back when, and she would have none of it. ...It was nice to see the cheerful, happy Mr. Bates, but for me there is something threatening and sinister about that justifably and not so justifiably angry man ... we've seen his willingness and capacity to hate ... not pretty ... Too late for Anna but Moseley deserves a woman who appreciates his caring and his patience . (Gotta be glad Daisy hasn't fallen for him) 

 

ETA: the above is not a complete nonsequiter ... I was thinking about Thomas getting the ax, and then Bates getting the ax, and Anna decommissioned by a "blessed event" ... Even more than Thomas, Mr. Bates is deserving of some "what does he do all day" scrutiny... 

Edited January 19, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[Diane M]

Everybody's making fun of Allan Leech's weight.  I didn't notice a thing.  I thought he looked fine :(

 

He's still a handsome man, but his face is fuller and rounder, so he has gained weight.

[magdalene]

Maybe I missed it but had Robert ever said anything about dumping Thomas?  I know he's made references to downsizing the staff but did he finger Thomas as expendable?  It's been a mystery to me why Carson has been so nasty since I don't have any recollection of Robert singling out Thomas.

Carson has never liked Thomas and has wanted to get rid of him since always.  He almost got Thomas fired when Thomas's homosexuality gave him the perfect excuse to do so. But luckily for Thomas Lord Grantham is not the homo phobe Carson is. Basically it has always been an open secret downstairs and upstairs that Thomas is gay but there was a time - two seasons ago? - when Carson was trying to oust Thomas because of it. Thomas has done some shady things in the early seasons, but for ol' grumpy pants to use his sexual orientation to get rid of him is one of the reasons I dislike Carson. Plenty of lives were probably destroyed by the Carsons of the world. 

 

I am aware that homosexuality was a crime back then. But that doesn't mean that everybody was in favor of this horrid law and  there were plenty of straight people who wouldn't grass on somebody for being gay and who took the attitude "live and let live".

Edited January 19, 2016 by magdalene

[yb125]

 

when Carson was trying to oust Thomas because of it.

Umm he was going to be fired for jumping in bed with another server without consent, if Jimmy was a women they still would've likely considered firing him. After Carson learned it was a misunderstanding he very graciously offered to still give a good recommendation so he can find another job. I think Carson's behavior in that case was quiet kind even if he beliefs weren't.  Also Robert was fine with firing him, but no one wanted him to go to jail which was going to happen since Jimmy called the police. Robert was happy for Thomas to stay, but only because he is a good cricket player and a big game was coming up. Now that I typed that last part out it sounds pretty dumb, but that is what happened. 

Edited January 19, 2016 by yb125

[Too Late Kev]

This picture shows Mrs. Hughes and Lady Grantham near each other. I think Lady Grantham is not just taller, but also slimmer.

[jschoolgirl]

And this goes beyond the usual "shaky cam" that I know the show uses deliberately for downstairs scenes.

=======

Why are they doing that?

[Roseanna]

The hospital plot is not the most exciting plot this year, but I must say I have some sympathy for the Dowager Countess.  Almost everyone is acting as if change is always positive, and I think the Dowager has a point about the hospital.  It's true that being swallowed by the larger hospital may afford people in the village access to better technology, but it will not come without a cost.  

 

 

I understand Violet's point that local people should have influence on their health services. But when one looks the board of the hospital, there are Violet, Cora, Isobel. lord Merton - not a single tenant, still less a servant. It is they who really need the hospital whereas Crawleys can go London. 

 

So my interpretation is to Violet it's basically a question of her own power, just as Isobel said. 

[Roseanna]

While I cheer the fact that Edith shows up at the office at all, her "soap opera" treatment of the last-minute magazine layout (with a cute, eligible man to help her) isn't what I'd hoped for.  I have nothing against Bertie, or the introduction of any romantic interest for Edith, but for him to swoop in and save the day doesn't feel quite like the victory that was presented.  

 

Bertie didn't save day, he only brought coffee and sandwiches, gave one advice and carried papers. Edith did the job herself (and there were also other nameless staff members present, save Audrey).  

[Roseanna]

Umm he was going to be fired for jumping in bed with another server without consent, if Jimmy was a women they still would've likely considered firing him. After Carson learned it was a misunderstanding he very graciously offered to still give a good recommendation so he can find another job. I think Carson's behavior in that case was quire kind even if he beliefs weren't.  Also Robert was fine with firing him, but no wanted him to go to jail which was going to happen since Jimmy called the police.

 

Fellowes has very weird concepts of sexuality. First Pamuk comes to Mary's bed uninvited and threatens her that if she screams, she loses her reputation, and then when she doesn't, it's presented as "consent". Even if Thomas got a false interpretation of Jimmy's feelings (via O'Brien), he could have tried to make a pass when he was wake and standing and able to make his feelings clear, instead of sneaking to his bed when he slept when it's more difficult to resist an assault. 

 

I don't wish that Thomas should have gone to prison, or his whole life destroyed because of the matter, but his action was really belittled too much. An offer of the sexual harassment isn't vindictive if he goes to the police.  

 

Perhaps also in order to belittle Pamuk and Thomas' actions Anna's rape was made so clear (torn clothes, hurt face).  

[Roseanna]

What I meant is that if they let the "last hired" go, Moseley and Thomas would be expected to pick up extra work and do what Andrew is currently doing. Thomas would not so much be demoted and given lesser pay as expected to do extra work that formerly was "footman" work he was promoted out of, but when staff is reduced would be just more "under-butler" duties. I agree, humiliating, and what happens with many companies today. Reduce staff and share the work out between the remaining workers. 

 

But Robert wants to have lesser pay costs. And because Thomas pay is bigger than that of Andrew and Molesley, Robert will spare more by keeping Andy and Molesley and giving up Thomas.

 

Also today, the organizations are changed so that there are no longer foremen between workers and superiors and former foremen has to go. To have an under butler was unnecessary already in S3.   

[ShadowFacts]

 

If the scene between Edith and Bertie doing the magazine layout had taken place 2 seasons ago, I'd be into it. But now Edith's appearance onscreen either causes me to blackout in a fit of rage or signals to me that it's a good time to get a snack.

 

Blackout rage, lol.  I think we are supposed to just forget all of her abominable behavior and be happy for the "meet cute", or second-meet cute.  A lighthearted rom-com scene sort of like Mary and Tony with the pigs (was it Tony?).  I agree, it was a couple of seasons too late.

 

Do we know what month of the year it's supposed to be on the wedding day?  I think the trees are leafed out, but all were wearing substantial coats.  I think I like the coats everyone wears more than almost anything else.  They look so warm yet fashionable, even the men's.  I do not usually pine for the days of yore, but I have to say the outerwear back then beats the heck out of hoodies and fleece that we wear nowadays (at least in the midwest). 

[Kohola3]

I do not usually pine for the days of yore, but I have to say the outerwear back then beats the heck out of hoodies and fleece that we wear nowadays (at least in the midwest).

 

Except that the materials made them incredibly heavy. I have a long coat from the 70s that is all wool and I can barely lift the thing!  But I agree, they were quite beautiful.  The decorative details were gorgeous.

[Llywela]

Do we know what month of the year it's supposed to be on the wedding day?  I think the trees are leafed out, but all were wearing substantial coats

In this part of the world, leaves on trees are no guarantee of warm weather!

[fastiller]

There was a quick moment of shoddy camera work during the scene where Sergeant Willis comes to see Spratt. The camera was on Sergeant Willis and the frame was still, and then suddenly it just got wobbly, like someone had bumped into it during filming. And this goes beyond the usual "shaky cam" that I know the show uses deliberately for downstairs scenes. It bothered me because surely they did several takes of the scene? Idk how that could get missed in the editing room when scenes get watched over and over again when I noticed it at first watch.

 

 

And this goes beyond the usual "shaky cam" that I know the show uses deliberately for downstairs scenes.

=======

Why are they doing that?

 

I am nearly certain it's to show just how hecti things are downstairs/.

[Llywela]

I am nearly certain it's to show just how hecti things are downstairs/.

I agree. I think the 'shaky cam' is intended to lend an air of movement and bustle to downstairs scenes, a visual reminder that the servants are always on the go, rarely getting a moment to stop and rest.

[Andorra]

 

I don't see how coming to the reception ruined anything for the bride and groom.  They looked every bit as pleased as the family did.  Besides, on some levels, Tom is to the new Mrs. Carson what Mary is to Mr. Carson, the child she never had.

 

This. I don't see the problem either. The toast was finished, everyone cheered for bride and groom and Tom joined the cheering. I bet Mrs Hughes was thrilled to see him, because she has a mother/son relationship with him.

[JudyObscure]

Yes, I thought Tom's arrival was just something extra nice to remember about their wedding day.  Thankfully Elsie Hughes-Carson  is not of the modern bride's  mindset that the spotlight has to shine on her alone, every single second of the day. A wedding reception should be like a big party that happens to have two guests of honor, not like a Celine Dion concert. 

 

All I could think of when Tom showed up was Andorra will be so pleased. ;)

 

His talk of diamonds and women and dances makes me believe that he belongs in Paris.

 

It made me think he should work in a mansion on Sunset Boulevard, penning "fan" letters for his employer, while she has her facial, in preparation of her close up . .

That's exactly what I was thinking of only with Thomas in the William Holden role and Old Gentleman as Norma Desmond.  Possibly with sex, who knows?

[photo fox]

I agree! I understand the argument about not "stealing their thunder", but in this case, I think that goes out the window. It's not like making a big announcement at a wedding, because an announcement can be made at another time, but Tom and Sybbie couldn't attend the wedding on another day. And he's close to the bride, not someone who's tangential, like Mr. Mason or Farmer Drewe or someone. If I was getting married, and I found out that a close friend/family member who had moved around the globe came home that day, but stayed away to not take my limelight, I'd be so disappointed!

 

All I could think of when Tom showed up was Andorra will be so pleased. ;)

^^^ This! :)

[ShadowFacts]

I'm not usually hawk-eyed about details, but I happened to look at Elsie's face when Tom joined in the toast, and she was absolutely joyous upon seeing him.  I did not look at Carson but I wouldn't care nearly as much about his reaction anyway, not because he's the groom but because he's Carson.

 

I thought the reception was just so nice, from the simple but festive decorations to the punch table and the wonderful-looking food.  I'm tickled that Elsie (don't know what version of Mrs. to call her now) prevailed and the scene where she stood up for her preferences was great.  She did not hesitate to counter Mary when she snobbily said "does anyone even have a wedding breakfast anymore?" and Elsie replied that lots of people do. 

[Diffy]

My father was born in 1913 and wore a wedding ring. Until he was married he wore his college ring. So could the ring question be one of class? And also preference in a time when many men did not wear one, especially those who did manual labor? Carson doesn't do that sort of work but perhaps as Mrs. Hughes could not afford a ring for him, he chose not to wear one rather than going to the expense of paying for one for himself. 

 

Men wearing wedding rings only became popular in WWII and probably more so in the US than the UK.  The men in my family never wore wedding rings until they began to get more popular in the 1980s.

 

As to class - the Duke of Edinburgh does not wear a wedding ring. Prince Charles wears one following his marriage to Camilla but did not during his first marriage. Prince Willian chose not to wear one, and there was a lot of press about it at the time.

 

Good for Edith for finally showing she has a spine and firing the editor.  I want to her to marry Bertie Pelham and ride happily off into the sunset with him taking Marigold with her.  I also want to have Mary get her comeuppance, but then I never liked Mary.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Diffy

[Driad]

The elderly gentleman who interviewed Thomas reminded me of the Russian expatriates, preoccupied with a life that is gone.

[pbutler111]

Was the "Mrs." in Mrs. Hughes explained at some point? Was it sort of an honorary thing because of her position?

[lucindabelle]

Oh I don't mind Tom showing up at the wedding just his "bride and groom" taking focus at the toast. But yes, Elsie clearly was delighted.

[Llywela]

Was the "Mrs." in Mrs. Hughes explained at some point? Was it sort of an honorary thing because of her position?

Formal etiquette. All housekeepers and head cooks were called 'Mrs', regardless of marital status. In the same way that ladies maids like Baxter and O'Brien were known by surname with no title, and maids were known by their first names only (Daisy, Ivy, Gwen, etc).

 

Anna should be addressed as 'Bates' since her marriage, but since there was already a Bates in the house it was agreed that as a one-off she would continue to be addressed as Anna.

 

The etiquette of address was an important part of the hierarchical structure, denoting rank and status.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Llywela

[crowceilidh]

Did Carson pull the heather out of his boutonniere?  Because that's what I thought he did and it looked like quite dire foreshadowing to me.

[fishcakes]

Oh I don't mind Tom showing up at the wedding just his "bride and groom" taking focus at the toast. But yes, Elsie clearly was delighted.

 

I agree. No one said Tom and Sybbie shouldn't have attended the wedding, only that he could have waited 30 seconds before announcing they were there.

[blackwing]

What I meant is that if they let the "last hired" go, Moseley and Thomas would be expected to pick up extra work and do what Andrew is currently doing. Thomas would not so much be demoted and given lesser pay as expected to do extra work that formerly was "footman" work he was promoted out of, but when staff is reduced would be just more "under-butler" duties. I agree, humiliating, and what happens with many companies today. Reduce staff and share the work out between the remaining workers. 

I think Andy expected to be fired first.  He said something like "well I suppose it's me then, I'm the last hired".  It does make sense.  Andy and Moseley are both footmen.  Last season (before Andy came along) Moseley was told by an asstastic Carson that he could get his wish and be the first, second and third footman all in one.  So it's not like it would be a new thing to Moseley to have to do all the work.  But Thomas' position is superfluous as well, as I have said before, I have a hard time figuring out exactly what it is he does since we rarely see him doing any work.

 

I think if they were going to downsize they could get rid of Thomas and Andy.  But I suspect that we are going to get a redemption of Thomas storyline.  Carson will retire and run that B&B he wanted.  Thomas will get promoted to butler.  Moseley gets his wish and becomes a teacher, and Andy will become the only footman.  It's the last season, so there should be happy endings for all I suppose.

 

There are obviously a lot more other staff that could be cut too.  Tom mentioned that he went to the house and the "hall boy" told him everyone was at the schoolhouse.  I don't know what a "hall boy" is, but it basically sounds like someone who sweeps the halls?  We have never really seen the "messy" servants, the ones who have to collect the garbage and throw out the trash and clean the floors.

[SusanSunflower]

Dramatically, Tom and Sybbie showing up in such a public way precluded any exposition as to why, when, how he decided to return to Downton (beyond vaguely being homesick) and/or anything about his American adventures. This is fiction, under the control of the writer, Fellowes ... Tom "could" have just as easily been written to arrive the night before or later that afternoon ... etc. 

 

My reaction to Tom's unannounced return was that something terrible had happened in America to prompt him returning unannounced, to expect/demand to be reinstated in his former comfort as a permanent resident, member of the family ... obviously ymmv, but when someone who has embarked with fanfare on a planned great adventure returns so quickly ... well, it raises questions, none of which could be even suggested at such a moment of community happiness ... oh, and making such a public declaration -- this is my real home, you are my real family -- is incredibly manipulative, precluding any discussion.

 

ETA: I'll be very surprised if we ever hear about Tom's American adventure 

Edited January 19, 2016 by SusanSunflower

[Roseanna]

Do we know what month of the year it's supposed to be on the wedding day?  I think the trees are leafed out, but all were wearing substantial coats.  I think I like the coats everyone wears more than almost anything else.  They look so warm yet fashionable, even the men's.  I do not usually pine for the days of yore, but I have to say the outerwear back then beats the heck out of hoodies and fleece that we wear nowadays (at least in the midwest). 

 

It's May 1925.

[Roseanna]

Formal etiquette. All housekeepers and head cooks were called 'Mrs', regardless of marital status. In the same way that ladies maids like Baxter and O'Brien were known by surname with no title, and maids were known by their first names only (Daisy, Ivy, Gwen, etc).

 

Cora calls her ladies maid Baxter, but I remember that servants have called her Miss Baxter. In the same way Carson is called Carson by Crawleys but Mr Carson by servants. 

[jordanpond]

I simply couldn't believe the level of conceit, haughtiness, and self-absorption that every single member of the Crawley family exhibited with respect to that wedding. Not only was the scolding tone of voice that Cora used absolutely disgraceful, even her apology was filled with conceit. Although she was generous in lending the coat for the wedding, the fact that she decided to make it a permanent gift was extremely insensitive. No matter the cost of the garment, she was taking her used clothing and acting as though it was some type of legitimate wedding gift. She treated it as though her used clothes were something that Mrs. Hughes "deserved," rather than something she had been putting her underarms into for years. She saw it as an honor. It reminded me of the time she ran into Mr. and Mrs. Bates in a restaurant and apologized for not being able to join them. She just assumed that having her join them would have been a great honor, whereas having her crash the dinner they had planned would have ruined the romance and privacy of the dinner. That's quite a level of conceit to assume that inviting yourself to join someone at dinner would be an honor, rather than an intrusion.

I also really disliked that the Crawleys sat in the front of the church. That place belonged to the most important people of the Hughes and Carson families.

I also think that Tom should have entered quietly. It wasn 't his place to be the person to second the toast.

None of the Crawleys offered a handshake to the couple, as all other guests were doing. I guess that was too far beneath them.

And, of course, Mary's offer of the great hall was very conceited despite its generosity.

Edited January 19, 2016 by jordanpond

[proserpina65]

Omg, are you in love with someone else? Is THAT going to be the new Bates cloud? Can't she be smiley now and then mr bates?

 

He was obviously joking, and so was she as she went along with it.

[jnymph]

Why did the man interviewing Thomas refer to the "ladieS" in plural form when describing them going upstairs for the evening?   Was it just common that guests spent the night there ?   And why just the ladies?   Didn't the men go to bed?
Other than my confusion, I absolutely loved that scene too.
 

[Roseanna]

Dramatically, Tom and Sybbie showing up in such a public way precluded any exposition as to why, when, how he decided to return to Downton (beyond vaguely being homesick) and/or anything about his American adventures. This is fiction, under the control of the writer, Fellowes ... Tom "could" have just as easily been written to arrive the night before or later that afternoon ... etc. 

 

My reaction to Tom's unannounced return was that something terrible had happened in America to prompt him returning unannounced, to expect/demand to be reinstated in his former comfort as a permanent resident, member of the family ... obviously ymmv, but when someone who has embarked with fanfare on a planned great adventure returns so quickly ... well, it raises questions, none of which could be even suggested at such a moment of community happiness ... oh, and making such a public declaration -- this is my real home, you are my real family -- is incredibly manipulative, precluding any discussion. 

 

It seems to be again one of theses happenings when one simply must forget the real life and common sense. If a adult child who had gone to the university or work elsewhere, not to speak of America, simply came back after few months and had no other plans for future than stay at home, the family members would of course be glad to see him or her, but they would be even more worried what has happened: failure in work/studies? disappointment in love/sex? financial disaster? health problems? weakness of character? 

[ShadowFacts]

Did Carson pull the heather out of his boutonniere?  Because that's what I thought he did and it looked like quite dire foreshadowing to me.

 

That was an odd detail.  I thought he said "get rid of the fern."  Is heather considered a fern?  If so, why would he object to wearing that on his lapel but not a rose?  Probably means nothing but why include it.

[SusanSunflower]

yes, removing the "fern" was an unpleasant detail, particularly after being so rude to Mr. Moseley, senior (who we saw carefully chosing and cutting a dozen or more of his prized roses (in May?) .. particularly odd and unpleasant detail if it was (Scottish) heather meant to honor Hughes' heritage -- and I think it, like the bagpipes, was ...