S01.E03: Counting One More

[Almost 3000]

"And I delivered every one of them. Except for that one."

and Bertrum.*

 

*Kid Farm did it first...

[Marigold]

Jill and Derick sounded like they were going to pick up a loaf of bread, not adopt a child.

"Hey, we are arriving with three loaves of bread and maybe returning with four!"

Hahahaha, so funny and amusing. Derick puts up his four fingers. He is a comedy genuis.

I know a little about adopting because I have looked into it. We have always wanted to adopt. Always. I learned it's a long process and expensive. Probably not able to do it because I have been through major financial issues (bankruptcy). I would LOVE to help a child but it seesm adoption is not going to work right now. (maybe foster care but staying on Duggar topic).

My husband and I were sitting there saying "wow, they make it sound so easy. Just pick a kid. Do you want this one or that one?" Jill really thinks you can just pick a child? Remember when they did that SOS visit years back? Jill wanted to take that little girl home with her. She was serious too. uh, hello?

I agree with the other poster that it was not a good idea to discuss that child's adoption with her sitting there. It just felt wrong. Freak showish. I'm glad they wanted to help a child but it came off badly.

Jessa and ben are just babbling about adoptiong. Another very trendy thing to do. I doubt it will happen unless it's a private adoption and they are "given" a baby.

[BradandJanet]

I started watching this and when they started talking repeatedly about the kid who is adopted, while the kid was right there at the table with a camera in her face , I about choked. Yes, the kid knows she is "different"  (skin color, lack of speaking English - though she may understand more than they think) already. What a pack of morons.

Jill/Derick nor Jessa/Bin will ever adopt...they will just keep yapping about it so they can play up to TLC..."See? We're having big families. You just hang on and keep filming. We're going to double down on this....adopting each time we're pregnant." Gag.

Marie Osmond is a nut and fame-whore in her own right...but at least she has never identified nor discussed which of her kids were adopted. These idiots will probably put it in the promo to each episode (let's pray there isn't any more).

And Jessa? Saying Jill will probably come home with a few from CA , like they're pieces of local pottery...well, that's when I gave up and turned it off..

 

Drafan, I can't give your astute post enough likes. I felt horrible for that poor little girl who was pulled out for the camera as a prop in this scene. I bet this sweet child ends up as an overworked, uneducated caregiver for the masses of godly children her family hopes to have. Bio-baby is already cuddling in Mommy's arms, while adopted kid smiles for the camera.  Neo-colonial Christians are no better than their more obvious predecessors. 

[Missy Vixen]

Probably through a lot of fundraising and help from the church - possible help from an employer. Some benefits packages include funds to help with adoption.  There are many MANY ways to fund an adoption without putting out much yourself.  

 

One has to ask who would be donating. Again. And Bin is not getting help from any "employer". Work is for the people who can't grift their way through life.

 

One would also have to observe that the Seewalds would have to prove financial ability to care for any more children. I don't think they can.

[doodlebug]

I think it's a bit unfair to suggest that Jessa wouldn't have hemoragged had she received proper medical care.

Of course, not all complications, including postpartum hemorrhage, can be prevented.  However, Jessa had several risk factors for hemorrhage and ultimately needed a transfusion due to blood loss.  I think it is very possible, even probable, that, even if it couldn't have been avoided, the hemorrhage could have been lessened and a transfusion avoided had Jessa been in a hospital with qualified birth attendants present.

[operakatz]

Yes. I also doubt Jessa had any professional, competent pre-natal care at all. TLC would definitely have shown or at least mentioned something about it. Anything they could have used to fill time on these 3 dull-as-dust programs would have been welcome news to them. Besides I don't think Jessa really thought she needed pre-natal care. After all, her sister is a "midwife" and her mother is the #1 most experienced birther of babies in the US. Who better to offer her tips and advice? What possible use could she have for an obstetrician or other legally-qualified health care professional?

She had to have at least SOME prenatal care as they knew the sex of the baby prior to his birth, just were choosing not to tell others. I am, however, appalled she was allowed to labor for so long, but I guess they are into the whole "Eve suffering" thing.

I almost felt sorry for Ben when he and the brothers were eating the big-assed pizza.  One of the brothers, I forgot which one, said it was rare that they could get Ben away from Jessa.  Going out for pizza with a bunch of guys every weekend is what Ben would have been doing if he hadn't gotten married.    

I noticed that comment too, and it made me wonder if, prior to marrying into the Duggarverse, Bin had any non-family friends. Sounds like he's 24/7 with Jessa nowadays and as she has no friends, they just stew in their own juices, which is no bueno. Couples cannot stay in a bubble like that indefinitely.

[Almost 3000]

She had to have at least SOME prenatal care as they knew the sex of the baby prior to his birth, just were choosing not to tell others. I am, however, appalled she was allowed to labor for so long, but I guess they are into the whole "Eve suffering" thing.

(snip)

I'm pretty sure she went to one of the baby photo places that does it for fun and giggles but is not prenatal care. Its like going to the mall for a glamour shoot but its a womb shoot.

[GeeGolly]

I think Jessa had a shopping mall vanity ultrasound to determine the baby's sex.

[NikSac]

She had to have at least SOME prenatal care as they knew the sex of the baby prior to his birth, just were choosing not to tell others. I am, however, appalled she was allowed to labor for so long, but I guess they are into the whole "Eve suffering" thing.

 

Except as discussed in another thread (can't remember which one) it's entirely possible and even likely she didn't labor nearly that long. Considering she was photographed eating at a restaurant and looking pretty normal during the time she was supposedly in labor.

[BitterApple]

I honestly don't think Jessa received any prenatal care beyond strip mall ultrasounds. There was never any mention on social media about going for check-ups, and we know Jessa shares everything. Jill probably listened to the baby's heartbeat every few weeks, and that was it.

[operakatz]

I'm pretty sure she went to one of the baby photo places that does it for fun and giggles but is not prenatal care. Its like going to the mall for a glamour shoot but its a womb shoot.

GAH! Such things exist?? egads. She is a vain thing, and isn't vanity one of the 7 Deadly Sins?

[whydoiwatch]

Watched bits and pieces of episode 3. Couldn't tolerate more than a few minutes.

I realize Derrick has a college degree, but he seemed dumber than Jill last night. Considering I have always thought of Jill as "slow" that is saying something.

Bin is an idiot. He was either trying not to get sick or disinterested in the whole labor and delivery process.

Anna is an idiot and saying the new baby is a new beginning (or whatever) only means she can't wait to breed with her swine spouse again. Actually, Anna is probably hoping her last spousal visit to Josh-U-uh was successful in impregnating her.

Of course, Boob and Googly Eyes had to kiss. Yuck.

[PJ123]

I started watching this and when they started talking repeatedly about the kid who is adopted, while the kid was right there at the table with a camera in her face , I about choked. Yes, the kid knows she is "different"  (skin color, lack of speaking English - though she may understand more than they think) already. What a pack of morons.

Jill/Derick nor Jessa/Bin will ever adopt...they will just keep yapping about it so they can play up to TLC..."See? We're having big families. You just hang on and keep filming. We're going to double down on this....adopting each time we're pregnant." Gag.

Marie Osmond is a nut and fame-whore in her own right...but at least she has never identified nor discussed which of her kids were adopted. These idiots will probably put it in the promo to each episode (let's pray there isn't any more).

And Jessa? Saying Jill will probably come home with a few from CA , like they're pieces of local pottery...well, that's when I gave up and turned it off..

 

Ugh...children are not things you pick up at the store as an impulse buy you idiots.  They are human beings with their own thoughts, feelings and such.  That poor child, she will always be referred to as the "different" one and how she should be soooooo thankful that these white knights rescued her.  Look how wonderful we are!  Its all about them and not ever the child.  Disgusting.  TLC is so doing a disservice to are adopted or even trying to adopt with this flippant display putting more children in jeopardy, IMO.

 

As far as funds the other "trendy" thing is to ask fellow church members for money or use a GoFundMe or similar account.  This I would not put past the Duggars.  The fundraising all but worked for the missionary trip.  Its very easy to guilt/sucker people into giving money "for the children" with some Bible quote attached.

[OnlyMeSuz]

I almost bled out with my first child, but it was because a teeny corner of the placenta remained in my uterus after the birth.  Everything was fine and dandy one moment (holding the baby, trying to breastfeed, etc.) and the next it looked like someone dumped a gallon of red paint. I had to have a D&C and a transfusion. The dr. said he knew upon examining the afterbirth, but it just happened lightning quick.  This was a  sudden emergency situation  and I can't even imagine what could have happened had I not already been at the hospital.  For my 2 subsequent births, precautions were taken in case it happened again, because chances were upped after the first time.   Do these people even realize what a dangerous situation Jessa was actually in?  Hello--scrap the home births and stick to hospitals for the safety of all involved.

[Sew Sumi]

Except as discussed in another thread (can't remember which one) it's entirely possible and even likely she didn't labor nearly that long. Considering she was photographed eating at a restaurant and looking pretty normal during the time she was supposedly in labor.

Even the TLC labor count had her at around 27 hours or so at the end, not the 48 the Duggars kept claiming. This puts Jessa starting labor probably not long after her birthday lunch the day before, as she delivered around 6pm the next day. 

[kalamac]

Ugh...children are not things you pick up at the store as an impulse buy you idiots.  They are human beings with their own thoughts, feelings and such.  That poor child, she will always be referred to as the "different" one and how she should be soooooo thankful that these white knights rescued her.  Look how wonderful we are!  Its all about them and not ever the child.  Disgusting.  TLC is so doing a disservice to are adopted or even trying to adopt with this flippant display putting more children in jeopardy, IMO.

 

As far as funds the other "trendy" thing is to ask fellow church members for money or use a GoFundMe or similar account.  This I would not put past the Duggars.  The fundraising all but worked for the missionary trip.  Its very easy to guilt/sucker people into giving money "for the children" with some Bible quote attached.

Except these are the Duggars we're talking about. They're not allowed to have their own thoughts and feelings. They're all interchangeable blessings, with no discernible character traits that make them their own people not just extensions of their parents. When you see your own kids as objects to be manipulated and played with, you are going to look at an orphanage with a toy store mentality.

[MrsChappy]

So is it a fundie thing to birth at home? Or is it 'we don't have insurance and can't afford to pay it out of pocket?'

 

I'm not against home births--usually, but these people seem obsessed with it, to the detriment of their health and safety.

[MarysWetBar]

Probably through a lot of fundraising and help from the church - possible help from an employer. Some benefits packages include funds to help with adoption. There are many MANY ways to fund an adoption without putting out much yourself.

To me Jessa bleeding out didn't seem like much of an emergency. They showed Jessa holding the baby and looking fine. Who knows how long it was between the birth and when Michelle called 911 but it makes sense now as to why she sounded oddly calm. When Michelle called 911 she said "she lost a lot of blood and needs to be checked". I'm sure it was very serious but it seemed like Jessa was acting normally (as normal as you can act after pushing out a giant baby).

Hate to be "that guy", but her exact words were "Mutherrrrrr bleeeeeding..........afterrrrrr birth."

[JoanArc]

 

One would also have to observe that the Seewalds would have to prove financial ability to care for any more children. I don't think they can.

"We'll get 20 grand for the People cover as soon as you give us the baby!"

[88Keys]

I thought it was really assy of them to bring Anna back to that house when Jessa was delivering a baby there and all.  Didn't they say she and Josh had lived there and delivered babies there?  Way to rub it in.  That must have been pretty difficult for Anna.

 

As much as Jessa bugs me, I had tears in my eyes and was cringing watching the labor and birth. Labor sucks balls, nothing about it doesn't suck besides the end result. Lol. Poor thing.

 

I just had twins a couple of weeks ago after a long and difficult pregnancy.  Even though my delivery was nothing like hers (I had a sort-of scheduled c-section, IN A HOSPITAL), I still felt extremely uncomfortable watching that.  I almost had to change the channel.  That was rough, and I felt bad for her.  Of course, they do seem to have hospitals in NWA, as evidenced by the ambulance that showed up at the house after they called 911.  She could have chosen to labor and deliver there, even if she didn't want painkillers.  (And how weird did Michelle sound on the phone when she called 911?)

 

Could Bin have looked less interested during the labor?  Wowzers.. He was checked OUT.  Way to be supportive, Bin.  Zero emotion was eery - not even a flicker of emotion when she was bleeding out and the ambulance showed up.  He was there with his backpack, ready to go.  Umm - you have a newborn and your wife is in need of serious medical attention!! Maybe you should be trying to look a little concerned? 

 

I'm guessing he was just trying to be strong and stoic and not panic, because he felt everyone else would need him to be strong.  My husband does the same thing.  He hates seeing me in pain, but he will suck it up for my sake and go freak out later.  At least he stayed by her side during most of that brutal labor.

[NikSac]

Even the TLC labor count had her at around 27 hours or so at the end, not the 48 the Duggars kept claiming. This puts Jessa starting labor probably not long after her birthday lunch the day before, as she delivered around 6pm the next day. 

 

Ah thank you. I'm one of those who couldn't stomach the special but I've been following along here, so I didn't see their countdown. Maybe something in her birthday lunch helped kick-start the labor. Even 27 hours seems really long, though (coming from someone who has no kids, but going by experiences of friends/family).

[NikSac]

So is it a fundie thing to birth at home? Or is it 'we don't have insurance and can't afford to pay it out of pocket?'

 

I'm not against home births--usually, but these people seem obsessed with it, to the detriment of their health and safety.

 

I don't know about the Fundie or insurance thing, but I think some of it's also an age group thing. I know they don't have a whole lot of exposure to other people, but even if it's just social media they probably see that it's a trendy thing now. It seems like half the people I know under 30 or so are big into the home births, water births, babywearing, co-sleeping, etc. - though I think they all use real certified nurse midwives.

[Loves2Dance]

Ah thank you. I'm one of those who couldn't stomach the special but I've been following along here, so I didn't see their countdown. Maybe something in her birthday lunch helped kick-start the labor. Even 27 hours seems really long, though (coming from someone who has no kids, but going by experiences of friends/family).

 

27 hours isn't that long when you consider that being in labor and being in active labor are two very different things. No one stays in active labor that long without some sort of red flag or intervention happening, but I labored on and off for days before I truly went into labor with my eldest. However, once active labors starts there is no denying what it is---it's a completely different feeling and type of pain. For me, it was about 10 hours with another two and a half push time, but I could claim that I was in labor for upwards of 36 hours just because of the way my body started labor (I never would, of course, but to the Duggars the longer time sounds more exciting and dramatic). 

[Beaner]

I don't know about the Fundie or insurance thing, but I think some of it's also an age group thing. I know they don't have a whole lot of exposure to other people, but even if it's just social media they probably see that it's a trendy thing now. It seems like half the people I know under 30 or so are big into the home births, water births, babywearing, co-sleeping, etc. - though I think they all use real certified nurse midwives.

Not so sure about that. As the mom of 2 young adults in their 20's, it seems more like the crunchy crowd is into that but many millennials want very high quality care in hospitals that provide nice perks and state of the art equipment . Edited December 29, 2015 by Beaner

[NikSac]

Not so sure about that. As the mom of 2 young adults in their 20's, it seems more like the crunchy crowd is into that and many millennials want very high quality care in hospitals that provide nice perks.

 

I know what you mean. That's why I said half... the other half (ETA: or a large # anyway) want fancy hospitals with top quality care and perks. It doesn't surprise me that Jill would fall into the "crunchy" crowd, but it does seem odd for Jessa.

 

(Also ETA: apparently I have more 'crunchy' acquaintances than I ever realized, at least based on their Facebook feeds).

Edited December 29, 2015 by NikSac

[Tabbygirl521]

I know what you mean. That's why I said half... the other half (ETA: or a large # anyway) want fancy hospitals with top quality care and perks. It doesn't surprise me that Jill would fall into the "crunchy" crowd, but it does seem odd for Jessa.

(Also ETA: apparently I have more 'crunchy' acquaintances than I ever realized, at least based on their Facebook feeds).

When I was walking through the fire in that season of life - a million years ago in the '70s - virtually everyone I knew yakked about having a natural birth. It was believed by many expectant moms that the pain-relieving drugs could harm the baby. Women who preferred medication for management often felt guilty for that choice, and women who had unplanned C-sections and the like could feel like real failures. And of course there was intense pressure to nurse, and to use cloth diapers. And there were all kinds of rituals around placentas - such as eating it or planting a tree over it. I chuckled to hear Jessa and her friend allude to both of these.

Because my peer group is long past these choices, I hadn't really realized that trends had changed until pretty recently. I didn't think twice when Jull and Jessa were talking home births.

I finally watched this latest ep today, and no kidding, I got all teary-eyed around Jessa's ordeal. So scary. And as off-putting as I find the Duggars' beliefs and lifestyle, I really was touched to see the excitement and love that most were expressing at the new baby. I think I have an advantage when viewing, since I never watched much of the old shows. I have pretty fresh impressions of most of these folks.

I didn't like Jessa picking at Anna about her memories of living with Josh in that house. It was rude, yet didn't seem genuine and I wonder if Production urged them to tackle that particular elephant in the room. Did not like.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Tabbygirl521

[GeeGolly]

The first few seconds of a 911 call are all about establishing the address of the emergency with everything said twice for verification. What we heard came after that. Michelle still sounded kind of odd to me - some where in between conversational and panic. I think most folks would have said something to the effect of, "My 24 year old daughter just had a home birth and appears to be bleeding more than normal."  After that the 911 operator goes into 'flip-chart' mode and asks specific questions about the patient and also gives specific instructions.

 

The whole 'mother is bleeding' sounded very much like Michelle's 'perpendicular' to me, like let me enunciate long and slow in case the 911 operator is a 7 year old student. But then again that is much like she speaks to most people.

 

With all that said, Jessa was still bleeding a fair amount when she left. The sheets on the stretcher had a noticeable blood stain near her hip area.

[NewDigs]

Even the TLC labor count had her at around 27 hours or so at the end, not the 48 the Duggars kept claiming. This puts Jessa starting labor probably not long after her birthday lunch the day before, as she delivered around 6pm the next day.

I can't figure out the timeline but I'm guessing that she had not really been having contractions every 5 minutes when they decided to go for that walk to force the birth?

That scene just seemed all kinds of wrong. The whole idea seemed wrong.

Duggar time...

[ghoulina]

I'm guessing he was just trying to be strong and stoic and not panic, because he felt everyone else would need him to be strong.  My husband does the same thing.  He hates seeing me in pain, but he will suck it up for my sake and go freak out later.  At least he stayed by her side during most of that brutal labor.

 

Yea, wasn't Josh sleeping through part of one of Anna's labor? I was actually impressed with Bin last night. Did he always looked super into what was going on? No. But he was there the entire time, and I thought he was trying his best to be supportive. This is a YOUNG kid. All that a woman goes through during labor can freak out even the most mature and experienced man. There were definitely times when Bin looked he was trying hard not to freak out, so maybe he kind of had to zone out a bit. But he never left her side. 

 

Not so sure about that. As the mom of 2 young adults in their 20's, it seems more like the crunchy crowd is into that but many millennials want very high quality care in hospitals that provide nice perks and state of the art equipment .

 

<----Semi-crunchy over here. I wanted home births, but my husband wasn't comfortable with it. So we compromised and I had hospital births attended by midwives. Anyhow, I find homebirth very natural and with regular prenatal care I believe about 95% of complications can be predicted beforehand and you will be told you're not a candidate for homebirth. Well trained midwives come armed with many supplies that might be needed in an emergency, as well as a backup plan in case something arises that is beyond their scope of care. 

 

That being said, I don't think the Duggars have homebirths because they're "crunchy" or it's in any way trendy. I think they do it because their mom did it (for the early births at least) and Anna did it and probably just about every other Gothard woman does it. I assume their is a lot of pressure to be strong and follow in the footsteps of those before them. Again, I support home birth, so it doesn't greatly bother me - BUT it's just another one of those things where the Duggar children seem to have no minds of their own. As with courting, they all just happen to choose to follow the same courtship rules? Isn't one of them ever going to say, "You know what, we'll wait on the sex thing, but we're okay with making out before marriage"? 

 

Is there ever going to be a Duggar girl who decides she WANTS a hospital birth?Or WANTS an epidural?I may have MY crunchy beliefs, but it's important to respect other people's choices, and I don't think that goes on at all in this world.  It just scares me a bit because one of them might BE one of the small percentage who is not a candidate for home birth, but ignores what they're told because there's so much pressure to do things a certain way. Or they might not even know, because I have no idea what kind of care they're receiving. I'm actually one who's sketchy about ultrasounds and only receives one per pregnancy. But I have no idea if these women are getting the regular blood tests done, urinalysis, blood pressure monitored, etc. 

[lookeyloo]

 

 

That being said, I don't think the Duggars have homebirths because they're "crunchy" or it's in any way trendy. I think they do it because their mom did it (for the early births at least) and Anna did it and probably just about every other Gothard woman does it. I assume their is a lot of pressure to be strong and follow in the footsteps of those before them. Again, I support home birth, so it doesn't greatly bother me - BUT it's just another one of those things where the Duggar children seem to have no minds of their own. As with courting, they all just happen to choose to follow the same courtship rules? Isn't one of them ever going to say, "You know what, we'll wait on the sex thing, but we're okay with making out before marriage"? 

 

Is there ever going to be a Duggar girl who decides she WANTS a hospital birth?Or WANTS an epidural?I may have MY crunchy beliefs, but it's important to respect other people's choices, and I don't think that goes on at all in this world.  It just scares me a bit because one of them might BE one of the small percentage who is not a candidate for home birth, but ignores what they're told because there's so much pressure to do things a certain way. Or they might not even know, because I have no idea what kind of care they're receiving. I'm actually one who's sketchy about ultrasounds and only receives one per pregnancy. But I have no idea if these women are getting the regular blood tests done, urinalysis, blood pressure monitored, etc. 

Well, you know (smirk added) that Jill is a midwife and as good as a doctor, and plus, she read it in a book somewhere...so they have complete faith in that.

[leighdear]

Anna has managed to give birth to 4 children without crisis or serious medical intervention.  Neither Jill nor Jessa has managed one.  Point to Anna because I think this is one arena where she dominates.  She's still an idiot, but she's definitely a Birth Warrior.  I would hope that was what she was thinking while watching Jessa.  ;-)

 

And in my opinion, if Ben had even the fleeting thought of taking a break, he would have been body-slammed right back into position by one of the "birth team".  He had NO choice, dude was in til the end, no matter how he felt.  I give him Zero points! 

Edited December 29, 2015 by leighdear

[ginger90]

I just had twins a couple of weeks ago

Congratulations !!

[GeeGolly]

Anna has managed to give birth to 4 children without crisis or serious medical intervention.  Neither Jill nor Jessa has managed one.  Point to Anna because I think this is one arena where she dominates.  She's still an idiot, but she's definitely a Birth Warrior.  I would hope that was what she was thinking while watching Jessa.  ;-)

 

And in my opinion, if Ben had even the fleeting thought of taking a break, he would have been body-slammed right back into position by one of the "birth team".  He had NO choice, dude was in til the end, no matter how he felt.  I give him Zero points! 

Yet I think that is part of their problem, they think they can DO this birth thing. But actually your body is going to do what it is going to do, your pelvis is the size it is, the baby is as big as it is, and facing the direction that it is facing, and as Doodle mentioned your uterus is going to do what your uterus wants to do. The only true thing they can out warrior each other on is tolerating pain.

[Barb23]

The first few seconds of a 911 call are all about establishing the address of the emergency with everything said twice for verification. What we heard came after that. Michelle still sounded kind of odd to me - some where in between conversational and panic. I think most folks would have said something to the effect of, "My 24 year old daughter just had a home birth and appears to be bleeding more than normal."  After that the 911 operator goes into 'flip-chart' mode and asks specific questions about the patient and also gives specific instructions.

 

The whole 'mother is bleeding' sounded very much like Michelle's 'perpendicular' to me, like let me enunciate long and slow in case the 911 operator is a 7 year old student. But then again that is much like she speaks to most people.

 

With all that said, Jessa was still bleeding a fair amount when she left. The sheets on the stretcher had a noticeable blood stain near her hip area.

I noticed we were hearing only part of the call too. The 911 operator asked something like "is the baby still doing OK?" which meant she already checked on the baby's status. MEchelle answered choppy for that question too "Baby's.......doing.......fine......."

[Saylii]

I know in some fundie Christian circles natural, home births going well is the ultimate sign that God loves you. Basically God won't let anything happen to you or the baby if you are 100% perfect in his eyes. I really hope JB and Michelle aren't giving Jill and Jessa crap over their poor home births.

My cousin had to be strongly convinced to at least give natural birth in a hospital because of her faith. Everything went well and her biggest regret is doing it in the hospital. Her husband works in the oil industry and has one of the best insurance policies I've ever seen.

The episode answered at least one question for me. It certainly looked like the baby went to the hospital with Jessa. You could see the brown blanket in a baby shape on her chest. All the pictures must have been taken before the bleeding got really bad.

[GinnyLee]

I have a few concerns.

First is why Anna is even staying with the Duggars during this time away from D.C. and Josh. Doesn't she have her own family she can go to? Ya know the family in FL with the camper in the front yard...

 

2nd- I thought this 3 episode series was supposed to address abuse victims not just the Ashley Madison scandal and it's consequences. I didn't see them address abuse victims much at all. I was under the impression that they would discuss how other abuse victims could go about seeking help.  It seems they offered some crocodile tears in episode one and then moved on to "Josh-is-a-perve-and-yes-God-is-helping-us-get-past-it" for the remainder of the last 2 episodes. Personally, I wanted to hear what they had to say about the available services for victims of abuse in their area, ya know maybe name a few choice organizations that are doing good deeds/services. Maybe even going to visit with the orgs to promote donations for helping other victims. But no can do apparently. 

 

3rd-the Guatemalian rain gear. The kid is only 6 months old. Those boots were huge even for a baby Izzy's size. When do they think he's going to start walking around in them? He can't possibly need them anytime soon. Rainy season is going to be over before he's conquered crawling yet alone walking in bulky rain boots.

 

4th- I don't think Jessa had a midwife there at all. I think she used Jana as a doula. Jill as a Skype call and Michelle as the expert and to do everything Jill recommended. 

[Almost 3000]

I know in some fundie Christian circles natural, home births going well is the ultimate sign that God loves you. Basically God won't let anything happen to you or the baby if you are 100% perfect in his eyes. I really hope JB and Michelle aren't giving Jill and Jessa crap over their poor home births.

My cousin had to be strongly convinced to at least give natural birth in a hospital because of her faith. Everything went well and her biggest regret is doing it in the hospital. Her husband works in the oil industry and has one of the best insurance policies I've ever seen.

The episode answered at least one question for me. It certainly looked like the baby went to the hospital with Jessa. You could see the brown blanket in a baby shape on her chest. All the pictures must have been taken before the bleeding got really bad.

Thanks for pointing that out. The time line makes more sense now with then what we were shown originally on social media.

[Almost 3000]

I have a few concerns.

First is why Anna is even staying with the Duggars during this time away from D.C. and Josh. Doesn't she have her own family she can go to? Ya know the family in FL with the camper in the front yard...

 

2nd- I thought this 3 episode series was supposed to address abuse victims not just the Ashley Madison scandal and it's consequences. I didn't see them address abuse victims much at all. I was under the impression that they would discuss how other abuse victims could go about seeking help.  It seems they offered some crocodile tears in episode one and then moved on to "Josh-is-a-perve-and-yes-God-is-helping-us-get-past-it" for the remainder of the last 2 episodes. Personally, I wanted to hear what they had to say about the available services for victims of abuse in their area, ya know maybe name a few choice organizations that are doing good deeds/services. Maybe even going to visit with the orgs to promote donations for helping other victims. But no can do apparently. 

 

3rd-the Guatemalian rain gear. The kid is only 6 months old. Those boots were huge even for a baby Izzy's size. When do they think he's going to start walking around in them? He can't possibly need them anytime soon. Rainy season is going to be over before he's conquered crawling yet alone walking in bulky rain boots.

 

4th- I don't think Jessa had a midwife there at all. I think she used Jana as a doula. Jill as a Skype call and Michelle as the expert and to do everything Jill recommended. 

1.) Re Anna staying with the Duggars, they have the pocket book, the TV show and Jslaves. Anna's parents have the camper, enough said.

2.) TLC might give info on a national source of help but the Duggs will only use a Christian based program and of those only a few are the right kind of Christian.

3.) I would have bought the cute little rain boots just because they were cute and probably cheap too.

4.) Many sources think that a midwife from the Butterfly (whatever it was called) group Jill trained at was there but because her qualifications aren't up to speed she isn't shown on camera on even on their social media. You can hear another woman during Michelle's 911 in the background.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Almost 3000

[ghoulina]

First is why Anna is even staying with the Duggars during this time away from D.C. and Josh. Doesn't she have her own family she can go to? Ya know the family in FL with the camper in the front yard...

 

Well, I think you just answered your own question. There would be no room. Anna has 4 kids and the Duggars surely sold their compound as not only having plenty of room for them, but help with the kids and built-in playmates as well. 

 

4th- I don't think Jessa had a midwife there at all. I think she used Jana as a doula. Jill as a Skype call and Michelle as the expert and to do everything Jill recommended.

 

I could have sworn there was another woman in there at some point. 

[RazzleberryPie]

Homebirths are all a part of the homebirth/homeschool/anti vac/homestead/home church trend that is circling a lot of evangelical cultures.

No surprise that the Duggars are all into it. Every generation has some people who start a trend out of necessity (quiverfulls, Gothardites, fundies, etc, usually have one breadwinner with tons of kids, so a lot of that 'home' stuff is necessity), then the sanctimonious ones make it some sort of contest and worthiness competition, then it becomes a 'rule' or at least an expectiation.

Hospital birth or home birth, do your homework and do what suits your needs, wallet, and values, but seriously I question the sanity of anyone who still values the opinions of the Duggars and bases their own decisions on the actions of these ignorant fools.

[Tabbygirl521]

Homebirths are all a part of the homebirth/homeschool/anti vac/homestead/home church trend that is circling a lot of evangelical cultures.

No surprise that the Duggars are all into it. Every generation has some people who start a trend out of necessity (quiverfulls, Gothardites, fundies, etc, usually have one breadwinner with tons of kids, so a lot of that 'home' stuff is necessity), then the sanctimonious ones make it some sort of contest and worthiness competition, then it becomes a 'rule' or at least an expectiation.

Hospital birth or home birth, do your homework and do what suits your needs, wallet, and values, but seriously I question the sanity of anyone who still values the opinions of the Duggars and bases their own decisions on the actions of these ignorant fools.

But yet if things go wrong, THEN it is okay to utilize the skills of Others out in the scary satanic world. I don't get this. Actually I remember ages ago, some posters here cited cases where midwives/moms did let "God's will" be done when tragedy struck. I guess at least they had the courage of their convictions (eye-roll and shudder).

I think what I'm trying to say that if you believe in medical intervention for emergencies, why not forestall emergencies when you can?

[RazzleberryPie]

They love the attention and drama of horrific birth stories. When your whole life revolves around birthin babies, the more dramatic and risky the better. So sensible.

[Absolom]

Not a midwife from Venessa's place (Butterfly), but a totally untrained "family friend" Miss Theresa was there and skipped out the door as she always does when things go south. 

[NEGirl]

My two cents after watching the show on Sunday:

1.) Jessa & Little Spurge's birth:  I think I saw someone with Jessa other than the usual culprits. I also don't think Bin did badly. He seemed supportive and concerned. I guess about right for a 19-20 year old. As another poster said, at least he was not sleeping like Josh. The Duggars have a history of having huge babies. Jessa knew her baby was big. It was foolish and dangerous to have a home birth knowing that and having unqualified people to handle the birth.

 

2.) Jill/Jessa Adoption bs: I have a relative, a family friend, and two co-workers who adopted. The relative adopted via their church, which is conservative Meth., the family friend went through a adoption agency that deals with South American children, and the co-workers adopted via China. All spent a fortune, went through numerous investigations, and in the case of my co-workers, had to make numerous trips to China which cost a fortune each time(bribes, airfare,hotels,etc).  I can not see Jill/Jessa being approved for an adoption via an agency, especially since laws have changed and some countries have put a stop to overseas adoptions. Their best bet would be via their Gothard cult friends/church connections. However, since the shit hit the fan, who knows if anyone would want to hand their baby over to them.

 

3.) I thought the show was boring and it was obvious Jill and Jessa are not close. They could not hold a five minute conversation with each other.  I think both Jana and Joy looked very pretty - much prettier than past shows.

 

4.) Anna: It was obvious she had a hard time holding it together, especially when discussing her memories at the mold house. I think she was told the most water downed version of everything concerning Josh and the molestation. Just look how Boob and MeChelle watered it all down in their interview with Megyn Kelly. Didn't she mention something about being shocked when she read the police report. She is saying what Boob wants her to say, not what she really feels. She is at the TTH because her parents pretty much told they would not help her and it was her fault.

[cdp73]

I know what you mean. That's why I said half... the other half (ETA: or a large # anyway) want fancy hospitals with top quality care and perks. It doesn't surprise me that Jill would fall into the "crunchy" crowd, but it does seem odd for Jessa.

 

I agree that Jessa wouldn't fall into the "crunchy" crowd, but she and Jill seem to be competing against each other.  "My labor was longer/more painful" than yours competition.  If Jessa was smart, she'd have gone to the hospital, had the drugs, and told Jill her labor was easier than Jill's, therefore, she wins.

[Sew Sumi]

1.) Re Anna staying with the Duggars, they have the pocket book, the TV show and Jslaves. Anna's parents have the camper, enough said.

2.) TLC might give info on a national source of help but the Duggs will only use a Christian based program and of those only a few are the right kind of Christian.

3.) I would have bought the cute little rain boots just because they were cute and probably cheap too.

4.) Many sources think that a midwife from the Butterfly (whatever it was called) group Jill trained at was there but because her qualifications aren't up to speed she isn't shown on camera on even on their social media. You can hear another woman during Michelle's 911 in the background.

Miss Teresa is not affiliated with A Butterfly midwives. There was duscussion on that FB page about her ditching births gone wrong before the paramedics show up and that the mothers back her up and claim their births were wholly unattended. It appears that Miss Teresa attended Jessa, but no one knows whether she stuck around to talk to the paramedics. Apparently, her reputation in the area is very bad, and based on past behavior, it's unlikely that she stuck around.

But this is conjecture that will never be confirmed or denied by the Duggars, because these fundies are a tight-lipped bunch.

[Darknight]

Does anyone know if there is an age limit on adoption. Would they consider someone like Jim Bob and Michelle too old to adopt a baby? If they consider 30 the minimum age is there a max age?

In most countries international yes. Local via from foster care no. Infant adoption depends but it's not likely.

[Homily]

Foster care is probably not an option, if for no other reason than they have rules about how many children are allowed to share a room!  Also there's that pesky little detail about how they harboured (as in aided and abetted) a child molester.  So, yeah, no reputable adoption agency is going to let them get anywhere near a child they have responsibility over!

[Almost 3000]

Miss Teresa is not affiliated with A Butterfly midwives. There was duscussion on that FB page about her ditching births gone wrong before the paramedics show up and that the mothers back her up and claim their births were wholly unattended. It appears that Miss Teresa attended Jessa, but no one knows whether she stuck around to talk to the paramedics. Apparently, her reputation in the area is very bad, and based on past behavior, it's unlikely that she stuck around.

But this is conjecture that will never be confirmed or denied by the Duggars, because these fundies are a tight-lipped bunch.

I'm getting the midwife who was married to Michelle's ex doctor that had problems and moved to Texas mixed up with Butterfly people who were closed down or whatever and then there's the one that Anna used but had the drive an hour in labor to use her bed. Its all confusing and crazy.

[Sew Sumi]

Nope. Michelle never had a midwife. Miss Teresa was Anna's attending "midwife" for the first two deliveries. But she is not even certified as a lay midwife, only a doula. Venessa is the founder of A Mommy's Butterfly and lost her license in ar, but has since been vindicated and may be practicing in AR again.

Venessa and/or whoever can post as her entity on the Butterfly FB page trashed Miss Teresa, and either her or Jill's shack midwife made the claims of Teresa bailing on deliveries with complications.