S05.E10: She Gets Revenge

[FiveByFive]

Why did Liz not tell her son to RUN. Leave. Go. I hope Gaga or whoever doesn't kill him just to keep Liz bound to the hotel.

Iris (was human) and Liz is human and have lived there for years and nothing has happened to them.  So there has to be a safe area or some rule there we haven't seen.  The ghosts also have never attacked the vampires.  The Countess only killed someone associated with Liz because he betrayed her and she didn't know what she was planning on doing to herself or planning on "running."  Also, obviously the Cortez has to have some guests that live or the cops would have been swarming that place eons ago. We know, before they were on the down swing, they had quite a lot from Ramona's flashback.

 

Also I think they mentioned there's a reason the ghosts target certain people.  For instance, if you're a drug addict or have some sort of addiction problem then Sally will come after you. If you're on the floor where the teacher killed herself and drink the water she'll come after you.  The ghost "tourists" didn't even know they could just up and kill someone until Donovan told them they could.  If not for him they'd still be wandering around looking for directions. In the son's case, also, Miss Evers knows he's there and likes Liz so she would have steered March away from him (hopefully.) 

 

Very good episode. It's almost like they wrote these last couple recently enough to have directly addressed some common viewer criticism of earlier episodes. It feels like tying up loose ends, so maybe the showrunners figured out how to do that. And if they do it by numbers, that's at least better than not really bothering like in previous seasons/series.

 

Being that the actors were talking as if they were still shooting the show a couple of weeks ago, I think you're on the right track.  The writers are smartly paying attention enough to plug up some plot holes.  "Yeah, uh ... where is Scarlet? Are they even seeing her?  Let's add a throw away line that murderer father does go visit her. Yeah, that will shut them up." 

 

The 2nd possibility is that the virus and those who have it don't come back because they are already gone; because there is nothing left to come back. This option works for Valentino's wife because I think she would have unfinished business or maybe not.

 

I'm going to go with your second one since all of the vamps have died in the hotel with the exception of the Countess or maybe (if Donovan and the Countess are dead) we'll get our answers next episode.   I do wonder how Ramona will feel if the Countess is dead since her main reason for living, revenge, has been taken from her ... plus she's still trapped.  They really should let her out.  There's no reason for her to even be in there are this point.  

Edited December 18, 2015 by FiveByFive

[Captanne]

Notably, I read in an article yesterday about the phenomenon of streaming and Netflix-ish "binging" creating a genre all its own -- which requires show runners to change their tactics to keep you watching ("pilots" are a thing of the past with streaming ability, frex) -- and he mentioned that shows airing now on networks actually air while still shooting.  Iow, they may be airing episode three and still shooting thirteen.  I.  Did.  Not.  Know.  This.

 

So, I tend to agree in a newly discovered way, that they are listening to reviews and fandom and changing things mid show. 

 

Fascinating.

 

*Source article was the television review section of yesterday's New York Times.

 

ETA:  The article was published in print today in the NYT.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Captanne

[darkestboy]

Good episode to end things until the New Year. I imagine Donovan is toast but the Countess might survive a bit longer. Donovan dancing to Hotline Bling was amusing enough I guess.

 

What was the point of Rudolph and Natacha if they were going to be killed off so quickly as well?

 

I guess the vampire kids plot is done and Ramona's probably not too long for this world as well.

 

I did like all the Iris and Liz scenes in this one, 8/10

[candall]

That ending was great.  I never saw it coming and loved it;  I didn't really expect the show to do much with Denis O'Hare or Kathy Bates.  I was pretty sure they would sit on the side as peripheral characters, but it was good to be wrong.  

 

This would have made a great season finale, since most of the story seems to have wrapped up.  I wonder and worry about what is in store.  

Totally agree.

 

I would have been just fine if they'd tacked on a 30-second epilogue and called it a day:  Iris and Liz welcome crowds of happy guests who are checking in as they admire the beautiful flower-filled lobby.

 

Everyone else is more or less squared away, except Sally.  Maybe she could clean up and be the bellhop.

 

ETA:  Oh.  > facepalm<   I forgot Evan Peters.  He's still around, right?  That's a definite fly in the happy ending ointment.

Edited December 18, 2015 by candall

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

American Horror Story: Hotel Lets Liz Explore Her Daddy Issues
Alex also deals with all her...uh...'children.' Which families have a shot at a happy holiday vacation?

[Bruinsfan]

When things were going well for Liz and her son I was kinda scared be read into cross dressers and he was about to start hitting on his father

Not just you. I breathed a sigh of relief when he revealed that he knew Liz was his father.

[psychoticstate]

Good episode to end things until the New Year. I imagine Donovan is toast but the Countess might survive a bit longer. Donovan dancing to Hotline Bling was amusing enough I guess.

 

What was the point of Rudolph and Natacha if they were going to be killed off so quickly as well?

 

I guess the vampire kids plot is done and Ramona's probably not too long for this world as well.

 

I did like all the Iris and Liz scenes in this one, 8/10

 

Totally agree.  As a classic movie devotee, I was thrilled that Rudolph Valentino and Natacha Rambova were included but what a waste and a letdown.  There was so much potential and instead, we're subjected to more Alex and John dreariness.  Ugh. 

 

The only saving graces for me are Liz, Iris and Mrs. Evers.  (Although I do wish we could find out exactly how a woman whose child was murdered ended up living with and assisting a murderer herself.)   Everything else at this point is a fail.  I don't care about the Ten Commandments killings.  I don't care about John and Alex and the special little bloodsucking snowflake.  I don't care about the Children of the Damned.  I don't care about Sally.  I don't care about Donovan and the Countess.  (How has the Countess stayed alive this long?)  I don't care about Rosemary's Baby.  Ramona is wasted.   March has become a parody.  I don't care to see him torture and kill various contractors.  Speaking of which, won't that contractor's family and/or friends and coworkers come looking for him?  Surely he would have mentioned bidding on a job at the Cortez.  I don't care about the various ghosts stuck at the Cortez that seem to show up only when convenient. 

 

It's too bad we haven't been given more flashbacks from the 1920s, which I thoroughly enjoyed.  It's too bad the hotel itself isn't the "bad guy" instead of various serial killers and vampires running around.  It's too bad that Ryan Murphy can't tighten up his plotlines instead of throwing the kitchen sink at the wall to see what sticks.    

 

The only thing to keep me from checking out at this point is to see if Liz and Iris were successful in killing the Countess.

[Mabinogia]

The only characters I'm interested in at this point are Evers, Liz and Iris. I want to see them triumph and take over the hotel. I know Evers is a bit out there but I don't think she'd murder anyone on her own, she just seems to like to clean up afterwards, so maybe if Iris and Liz keep her supplied with Oxi-Clean she will be devoted to them. They could sic March on anyone who tries to get out of paying their bill. Lock the rest in the special hallway.

 

I really don't know if we are supposed to like the Countess. Usually a main character is supposed to be the one we root for but I just want to see her gone. I can't stand John the other kind of main character either. Ugh.

 

This season was all about the supporting characters for me. And I want to watch the Ghostly Vampirey Marigold Hotel run by Iris and Liz spinoff.

[Bruinsfan]

Unless Sarah Paulson's character in Asylum counts as the main, I haven't liked any of them from the start of the series.

[Dobian]

I loved Evers' delight at the wonders of modern technology with all those dryer settings an oxygenated cleaners, lol.

 

Well, the impact of the final moment is a little bit diminished by the fact that Donovan and the Countess will of course still be around after the break, just in ghost form.  Well I guess being stuck in the hotel forever kind of sucks, but they still get screen time.

[psychoticstate]

Well, the impact of the final moment is a little bit diminished by the fact that Donovan and the Countess will of course still be around after the break, just in ghost form.  Well I guess being stuck in the hotel forever kind of sucks, but they still get screen time.

 

 

This could be some karmic justice for the Countess because then she will be stuck with March for eternity (or as long as the Cortez stands.)  And, of course, Donovan and his perfect cheekbones.

[Disraeli Ears]

For both episode 9 and episode 10, I just read the recaps first - then watched the shows, knowing what parts I could fast-forward (looking at you, John and Alex). I'll tune into the rest, but will probably do the same thing (except the finale - I might watch the finale unspoiled).

 

Liz, Iris, and Douglas were the only good things in this episode. Ugh, I'm so glad that Finn Wittrock's horrible Italian/Russian/Klingon/Count Dracula accent is gone.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Disraeli Ears

[hatchetgirl]

 

The only characters I'm interested in at this point are Evers, Liz and Iris.

 

Love them love them!  I wish they'd do a Golden Girls type spin off with the three and the hotel.  

[LoneHaranguer]

 

he mentioned that shows airing now on networks actually air while still shooting.  Iow, they may be airing episode three and still shooting thirteen.  I.  Did.  Not.  Know.  This.

Some do. That tends to lead to a just-in-time aspect and some people aren't comfortable fearing that an unexpected delay will leave them without anything to show on schedule. There are also good reasons why that often can't be done. The availability of actors may dictate that all of their scenes be shot together, regardless of to which episodes they belong. The practicalities of shooting on location may require the same. Episodes with special effects may be shot well in advance of prior episodes to accommodate a lengthy processing time. It's not unusual to hear a complaint about a rough scene near the end of a season be explained away as actually being one of the first shot (especially for a new show).

[Bruinsfan]

I seem to recall Glee's production running behind almost constantly, to the point that they were just barely getting episodes edited in time to air at the end of seasons.

[DangerousMinds]

I watched the episode, and loved it, Liz and Iris are my favorite couple.  I have no idea what Hotline Bling is.

Some kind of hideous autotuned mess that apparently passes for music today? I feel sad for our youth,:)

[queenanne]

Some do. That tends to lead to a just-in-time aspect and some people aren't comfortable fearing that an unexpected delay will leave them without anything to show on schedule. There are also good reasons why that often can't be done. The availability of actors may dictate that all of their scenes be shot together, regardless of to which episodes they belong. The practicalities of shooting on location may require the same. Episodes with special effects may be shot well in advance of prior episodes to accommodate a lengthy processing time. It's not unusual to hear a complaint about a rough scene near the end of a season be explained away as actually being one of the first shot (especially for a new show).

 

I can see it as having a plus too, insofar as it may aid fans if a show is canceled.  Closer to finishing its actual skein in real time, the more money has already been spent, and thus the less downside into pulling funding/ending the season without a satisfying series ender.

 

...It also explains a lot of finished-product, and very occasionally promo commercials that present never-aired scenes.

Edited December 19, 2015 by queenanne

[FiveByFive]

That tends to lead to a just-in-time aspect and some people aren't comfortable fearing that an unexpected delay will leave them without anything to show on schedule. There are also good reasons why that often can't be done. The availability of actors may dictate that all of their scenes be shot together, regardless of to which episodes they belong. 

From reading a bunch of articles and watching interviews, the show wasn't shot in order.  I recall Bomer mentioning that because of Gaga's schedule the first scenes we saw with the two of them together in episode one (orgy) were actually shot three months into the production.  I also believe he was still shooting the Magnificent Seven while the show was shooting.  Also, Paulson was doing two shows at once so I'm sure things had to be juggled to accommodate that and give her time to rest. 

 

Overall, it's great, that in this episode they addressed at least one main sticking point that people have had all season.  I expect they'll finally get around to adding in a throw away line about why vampires can't become ghosts or why only vampires can become ghosts.  If Donovan and the Countess are dead, do they have unfinished business? The only vampire that didn't die (either finally or metaphorically by becoming a vampire) in the hotel is Valentino.  Tristan on the other hand never returned.  

 

I'd argue Donovan may have unfinished business with his mother as I believe that even if he says he hates her, he really doesn't. His freak out over her death which caused him to vamp her shouldn't have been simply explained away with, he didn't really mean it.  The Countess may not want to leave behind Bart.  If they're dead, I guess we'll see.  (Although Donovan was on his knees behind something with they were being shot at and I wouldn't be surprised if he threw himself in front of the Countess as a shield.)

[Bruinsfan]

It looked like they were just about to reconcile before Butch and Sundance came in with guns blazing, so maybe they'll happily move on to Hell together?

[Terrafamilia]

After Liz and Iris waltzed in, guns blazing, I was left thinking, "Okay, but did they hit anything?" We'll have to see in the New Year.

[JenE4]

Is next week the finale? It seems that all that's left to wrap up is Mr. March or maybe how Iris and Liz will clean all these ghosts and the non-MeaselsVamp kids out of The Cortez. And I'm guessing since everyone else is dead Liz will just take care of Lauchlan as a second chance to raise a son. But this episode could have worked as the finale, too.

Re the most stupid line of this episode, IMO, hands-down Donovan's "I've got cheekbones for days." Really, dude? I could maybe see model Tristan saying that, but Donovan? No way! Even my 19-year-old daughter who came home from college and was watching with me without having seen any episodes this season, was like "Is this show written by a teenage girl?!"

Edited December 21, 2015 by JenE4

[TudorQueen]

And anyway, it was his chin that the Countess said went "on for days"

[Madding crowd]

Loved the blazing guns ending with Iris and Liz-it would be awesome to see them running the hotel. Of course, if the Countess could be killed like anyone else, you would think someone would have long done the deed. And as much as I like Finn as an actor, I really wanted the Valentino Character to be gone. I don't know, I also feel it is a bit odd to take the name of a real person and change them into something they were not. Not saying Valentino has any family left to complain (maybe he does and they are fine with it), but I think taking a real person and suggesting they were a vampire is a bit strange to me. 

 

When Liz's son first appeared, I thought he was a middle aged man and since Liz is middle aged, I wondered how they could be father/son, but after awhile I accepted the son to be 40ish and Liz 60ish. I thought that story resolved in a nice way although i can't imagine Liz allowing her son to step foot in that hotel. I continue to find it odd that Liz is a real person, yet seems to never leave the hotel. Certainly she should have some curiosity about life beyond meeting people who are dead an hour later. 

I assume Gaga survives, but would happily watch the rest of the season without her.

[bblancobrnx]

Is next week the finale? It seems that all that's left to wrap up is Mr. March or maybe how Iris and Liz will clean all these ghosts and the non-MeaselsVamp kids out of The Cortez. And I'm guessing since everyone else is dead Liz will just take care of Lauchlan as a second chance to raise a son. But this episode could have worked as the finale, too.

Re the most stupid line of this episode, IMO, hands-down Donovan's "I've got cheekbones for days." Really, dude? I could maybe see model Tristan saying that, but Donovan? No way! Even my 19-year-old daughter who came home from college and was watching with me without having seen any episodes this season, was like "Is this show written by a teenage girl?!"

Just to let you know

1 there should be about 3 episodes left if the past 4 seasons are any indication of the number of total episodes

2. The "cheekbones for days" comment he made was a direct quote of the Countess right before she turned him when he overdosed...except the Countess told Iris "your boy... has cheekbones for days"

[Captanne]

But he doesn't.  Bomer's cheekbones are not that remarkable.  I know other people find him amazingly attractive.  To me he is too young looking and, honestly, ordinary to be All That.  (Not that I don't love him as - to quote my best friend - we love all people in God's way.)  I just find his looks to be very run-of-the-mill.  I reckoned he got cool roles with AHS because of his personality.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Captanne

[ShadowHunter]

According to reports this season has only 12 episodes. They wrapped filming just a few days ago. 

[Petunia13]

Wes Bentley looks so much like milo ventimiglia from GIlmore Girls and Heroes.

I love Liz (holds arms out) THIS MUCH.

[BSB]

Wrong post.

Edited December 23, 2015 by BSB

[Free]

It's too bad the hotel itself isn't the "bad guy" instead of various serial killers and vampires running around.

 

Agreed, Murder House was more interesting in that we had characters actually figuring out about the murder house, while in the hotel, people die/turn into vampires left and right and no one cares, no investigation into the disappearances of the victims or anything.

 

Everything else at this point is a fail.  I don't care about the Ten Commandments killings.  I don't care about John and Alex and the special little bloodsucking snowflake.  I don't care about the Children of the Damned.  I don't care about Sally.  I don't care about Donovan and the Countess.  (How has the Countess stayed alive this long?)  I don't care about Rosemary's Baby.  Ramona is wasted.   March has become a parody.  I don't care to see him torture and kill various contractors.  Speaking of which, won't that contractor's family and/or friends and coworkers come looking for him?  Surely he would have mentioned bidding on a job at the Cortez.  I don't care about the various ghosts stuck at the Cortez that seem to show up only when convenient.

 

They should, but so far nothing.  John and Alex are annoying, unlikable, and uninteresting characters and the 10CK was a complete waste of time and potential.

[Chalby]

Iris, Liz, Miss Evers and James March are the best ones to watch. I could do without the rest of the characters. 

 

Love, love, love, love LOVE Liz!

[gunderda]

When things were going well for Liz and her son I was kinda scared he was into cross dressers and he was about to start hitting on his father

 

 

Not just you. I breathed a sigh of relief when he revealed that he knew Liz was his father.

 

ME TOO!! although his first comments (commenting about the dress, etc...) are still kinda creepy but I guess it can be seen as him accepting his father. 

 

This episode was pretty entertaining for the most part and I even started laughing at the very last scene of Liz and Iris come in with guns a blazin'. 

 

For once my DVR didn't cut off early!! It's happened to me a couple times. 

 

I wonder why they just didn't kill the kids??

 

And I don't think any of the vamps come back as ghosts. Valentino's wife hasn't shown back up and the Countess killed her in the hotel.

[ClareWalks]

I just find his looks to be very run-of-the-mill. 

 

I want to run around whatever mills you're at ;)

[Bruinsfan]

Yeah, although Bomer does appear to have a very nice personality I think he's one of the last people on the planet that actually needs to rely on having one. Maybe in 30 years or so...

[caracas1914]

I do think what's become apparent is that Gaga can't act beside rudimentary line readings and being glammed up, so her being such a pivotal character was a big misfire.

Edited December 29, 2015 by caracas1914

[qtpye]

Gaga should have been a mysterious side character this season.  Then after developing some acting chops, she could have a bigger role next season.  Her sauntering around looking fab with very few speaking lines would have worked much better.

[caracas1914]

Yeah, although Bomer does appear to have a very nice personality I think he's one of the last people on the planet that actually needs to rely on having one. Maybe in 30 years or so...

Oh I agree that Matt Bomer is pretty, he's probably as classically good looking as any actor out there. The problem is that his character is pretty much a cypher and inconsistent mess.

[Petunia13]

His character is a love sick sap and was a weak boy and desperate soul before the Countess saved him. And he's still weak willed and desperate. Bomer has done fine with what he's been given and convinced me.

I also think he's very good looking & from what little I can tell a nice seeming guy in RL.

[Dancingjaneway]

Iris and Liz were freaking AWESOME in this episode. I loved the ending shot with them just shooting like crazy. Donovan dancing to "Online Bling" had me laughing. I was so thrilled that Liz and her son talked and that they are in a good place. The only other person I really liked this episode was Ramona. This season hasn't had NEARLY enough Angela B. in it. To me she should have been the countess. 

[Canada]

After seeing this season play out, I can't imagine Angela Bassett or any other big-name actress playing the countess.  Angela Bassett or Jessica Lange in pasties???  I don't think so.  That part of the character was just begging for someone skanky to play the role, so it suits Gaga well.  Too bad that the only part of the role she's any good at.

[Dancingjaneway]

I don't think the pasties would have come into play if it was anyone but Gaga. I think with them casting Gaga they knew that they could really get racy and push the boundaries. I think the countess would have still oozed sex but would have oozed class as well if Angela had played her. I fear that with Gaga getting so much praise and Murphy being so stuck on her that we will see her next season and it won't be as a side character. 

[mercfan3]

I actually think Gaga's presence is amazing. I think she has chemistry..and whatever "it" is..and it's perfect for her role.

 

It's just then she talks. And sometimes she's okay. (When she's monotone) but other times she's too theatre and it doesn't work in tv.

[DollEyes]

  Good episode.  However, while I agree that Angela Bassett would have made a great Countess, I deal with the actors that the show has and the parts they're playing now, not whom I want them to play. While I think that Lady Gaga's OK as the Countess sometimes, other times her lack of acting experience is painful to watch, such as the scenes when she was crying over Rudolf's corpse and her final declaration of love to Donovan, just before Liz, Iris and their guns showed up & blew her off the screen, in more ways than one. This episode alone convinced me that while Lady Gaga is a great singer/musician/performer, when it comes to acting, there's no way in Hell that she deserves a Golden Globe nomination more than Ms. Bassett, Kathy Bates, Denis O'Hare, Even Peters or Mare Winningham.

 

 As for Donovan, although I think that Matt Bomer is equal parts beautiful and talented, Donovan is working my last nerve, his dance to "Hotline Bling" aside. Donovan was a spoiled, psycho and selfish bitch long before The Countess turned him and that made him even worse because it made him stupid-or rather, stupider. Had he not betrayed Ramona & Iris for The Countess, Donovan might still be undead, not just dead dead. If killing The Countess finally makes her look her true age, chances are that the bloom will wear off the rose for Donovan in record time.

 

  Re Liz, I was among those who was worried that Douglas might be a con man, but his acceptance & forgiveness of Liz was a pleasant surprise, like Mrs. Evers' new washer/dryer.

 

  I liked the John/Alex scenes, especially when they acknowledged their shitty parenting and John's comparing his relationship with Sally to addiction, which is what it was. Containing the vamp kids was a bonus.  Sally's involvement with John was much less about saving him from himself than it was saving herself from The Beast. As for Sally's threat to expose John to Alex as the 10cc Killer, since Alex has plenty of blood on her own hands, I think that she'll forgive him.  However, something tells me that Sally will take her vengeance against John & Alex out on Scarlett.

 

 

 

I think Gaga did great with the role...because even though it's major character, it's a very simple role. Especially since it isn't too far from the "persona" that she's built her entire career around.

 

  I respectfully disagree. Part of great acting is the ability to go outside one's comfort zone, whether the role is "simple" or not. For example, Kathy Bates' role as Iris seemed simple at the beginning of the season, but she has not only gotten more complex since then, she showed more depth in the scene with Donovan's ashes alone than Gaga's shown all season long. Gaga may look great in the costumes, but her performance on this show was all style, little substance, as far as I'm concerned.

Edited January 8, 2016 by DollEyes

[ralph]

I think Gaga did great with the role...because even though it's major character, it's a very simple role. Especially since it isn't too far from the "persona" that's she's built her entire career around.

[lallalla]

Did not initially like this season, hence waiting until it just dropped on Netflix to watch (and still not thrilled about Hotel, overall), but this episode took the cake with Gaga's awful acting.  I think it was episode 9 that saw me cringing over Peter's accent as he played March.  Prior to that, I actually liked and respected the work it must entail to maintain that accent, but wtf episode 9?

How many times did they film Gaga with the detectives before deciding it was passable as "good enough"?