S06.E08: Start To Finish

[LadyArcadia]

"Your dad was an asshole."

Carl drops the mic.

 

I literally shouted out "Booom! Drops mic" after Carl's statement.

 

I see Jessie is trying to overtake Lori in the mother of the decade award. What kind of mother would have their children BEHIND THEM in that situation?  Hell no!  My kids would be directly in front of me, where I could see them at all times, and I'd be holding on to them for dear life.  No mother would ever have their children behind them in that situation. 

 

I guess that confirms Rick has a type.  Sorry Richonne shippers.

 

Speaking of Lori, there appears to be a lot of complaints about this season.  Have we so quickly forgotten season 2?  Now that was Days of our Walking Dead!  Oh Goddess, the drama of why Andrea wasn't doing fucking laundry like the other women folk.  Ugh...  Everyone was screaming to get them off the farm, now we're complaining that they should settle and rebuild?  The show runners can't win.

 

And I call bullshit on Judith sitting so quiet under the meat blanket. I breastfed both of my kids for over a year. 'nuff said.

[SharonH58]

Is it bad that I liked the Wolf in this episode?  He was pretty funny.  

Morgan - He won't get away

Wolf - I'll get away.

 

Maybe he is going to use Denise as zombie bait, which I hope as I find her useless.  

[Bryce Lynch]

I think this half season would be a very good 3 or 4 episodes. IMHO, they have done that much good storytelling, but stretched it out over 8 episodes (including two 90 minute ones).

The Glenn's death fake out fiasco made this even worse. You can't be a show that leaves viewers anxiously wanting to know what happens next and one that drags out the plot at a snail's pace for the sake of character development at the same time. It frustrates viewers.

[Cthulhudrew]

What was up with the doudble sided deadbolt in Jesse's garage that let Ron isolate himself and Carl? It's odd that a builder installed a lock on the garage door so that someone could lock themselves in the garage and not be accessible from the house.

 

Maybe some forward thinking Zombie-Apocalypse tinkerer thought it would be a good idea to be able to keep "those meddling kids" from walking in on him when he finally decided to end it all by running the car's exhaust?

 

Yeah, I got nothing else. *shrug*

 

And how awful Sam's haircut is--especially since she's supposed to be a hairdresser.

 

It does give new insight into Ron's vehemently negative response to his mother's attempt to cut his hair a few episodes ago, though... :D

 

I wonder if they'll explain why Unfair Wolf didn't just shoot the lot of Rosita, Eugene, Tara, Denise, and unconscious Morgan and Carol instead of sneaking away into the middle of the herd? Probably not- I'm sure it's just  because Drama!

Edited November 30, 2015 by Cthulhudrew

[Bongo Fury]

So how would that work? They'd have to completely barricade the hallway and/or room before they left for the armory, but then how do they get themselves out? 

 

Put the 'vulnerables' in the bedroom furthest from the stairs, at the end of the hallway, have them bar the door from the inside, a chair propped against the doorknob or something similar will do. Then pile a couple mattresses against the outside of the door, backed up by a dresser or three. No walker will get past that. 

 

They already had the stairwell blocked, that gave them the space and time to 'gut themselves up'. So there was time to seal off the 'vulnerables' with whatever else was lying around upstairs. After they are protected, the plan continues as was shown. But a lot safer, and a lot smarter.

[Ohwell]

I jumped up and did the happy dance when Carol finally got butt-slammed.

 

Sure, the Wolf needs to die and I hope Morgan is the one to kill him.  

[Bad Example]

Carol fell because she slipped on some bullets Ron had dropped.

 

Yes, she did... but I was talking about Maggie. 

[ghoulina]

Speaking of Lori, there appears to be a lot of complaints about this season.  Have we so quickly forgotten season 2?  Now that was Days of our Walking Dead!  Oh Goddess, the drama of why Andrea wasn't doing fucking laundry like the other women folk.  Ugh...  Everyone was screaming to get them off the farm, now we're complaining that they should settle and rebuild?  The show runners can't win.

 

I, for one, really enjoyed the farm season. But the timing was way different. When they were on the farm, they were only months into this thing. I would not expect them to rebuild at that point. Hell, Shane was giving people lessons on shooting - some hadn't even handled a gun at that point! Now we are years in. Everyone, in the main group at least, is proficient with a weapon.They have killed. They have lost their nearest and dearest. They have lived on nothing, and they have built some pretty good things.  They should be past the point of having long, drawn out conversations about how to navigate this world. Now is the time for world building - unless the showrunners think we're going to tolerate this mess for another six seasons! 

[RedheadZombie]

...annnd apparently Morgan thinks the proper treatment for a concussion is to slam the victim's back of their head down on a concrete floor.

Again.

I don't think that's the right course of treatment.

Morgan should have asked the doctor first.

After all, she was sitting right there.

 

 

Sure Morgan could have asked the doctor.  First he'd need to collect her medical texts and crib notes.  Then sit and wait patiently while she shivers and shakes and researches.  Then he would need to comfort, soothe, and encourage her to be brave. 

 

 From the "extra clip," I thought the snotty little pipsqueak on the motorcycle was Negan.  That Kleenex belongs to ME.  Right.  Sigh, yawn, have a nice holiday, show.  See you in February, probably.  Whatever.

 

Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Negan?  zip!  180.

 

It's funny, because I don't even know who this Negan chap is, except I've heard his name murmured in hushed and horrified tones as part of TWD zeitgeist for years.

 

I know what you're saying.  I love JDM and I'm excited about the character. 

Like you, I know nothing about Negan except I've frequently read he's so bad they could never bring him to the show.  Interesting.

Edited December 1, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Spoiler tags

[halkatla]

I hate Morgan so very, very, very, very, very, very, very much. And then some. A distant  runner up for the one I hate the most would be Sam. Him and his brother are totally unrealistically stupid. I mean, who would decide to have a fight while there are hordes of killer-zombies everywhere? No-one would do that, not even an average character on TWD.

 

Also, I´m not sure if I would lather myself in zombie guts to survive, honestly.

 

If I had ever made it to a place like the ASZ I would have told everybody that I would be spending all my days hoarding food in my new house and working like crazy to make the defenses of the place absolutely solid. I wouldn´t leave to go on a run.

 

I choose to believe that Darryl & friends are on the way, about to save everybody, especially Carol.

Edited November 30, 2015 by halkatla

[catrox14]

 

I see Jessie is trying to overtake Lori in the mother of the decade award. What kind of mother would have their children BEHIND THEM in that situation?  Hell no!  My kids would be directly in front of me, where I could see them at all times, and I'd be holding on to them for dear life.  No mother would ever have their children behind them in that situation.

 

My head!canon is that Michonne was actually being the mother here by putting the kids between her and Rick. Jessie just happens to in the middle of them as an annoying appendage :) Leave me to my head!canon!

[txwatcher]

The best parts: <br />Tiny Tim singing, I loved that song as a kid for some reason.<br />The Wolf chiming in "I will" when Morgan and Carol were arguing, it just made me smile.<br />Deanna going out in style. Why waste a bullet on your dying self, when you could thin the herd a little and provide a distraction?<br /><br />No you didn't moments:<br />Dropping your weapons when the Wolf only had a knife. I know Denise is the dr and your new gf, but really! But is was cute how Eugene sheepishly placed his machete on the floor.<br />In the same vein, do not get out of a fuel truck when confronted by a biker gang, esp if you have an RPG. I doubt they will shoot at your mobile bomb, which would take some of them out too. RUN THEM OVER!<br />Lastly, Sam Sam Sam But it really is Jessie's fault for her pretend BS. Not a good way to parent during the Zpocolypse., if you want your kids to survive.<br />See ya'll next year.

[TattleTeeny]

Hold on, they don't have to smear their faces with zombie blood and guts?  That seems like a new thing.

You know what bugged me about this (and now that I think about it, the original use of this technique way back when)? If all the walkers smell like gnarly old walker rot, what good does it really do for humans to smear it all over themselves anyway? Meaning, if the zombies are used to smelling their own goo, wouldn't the scent of humans--even coated in said goo--still pique the walkers' interest?

 

I don't know if I am articulating this well, but if they already can sniff out one human even when that human is in the middle of a huge and very aromatic zombie horde, how much protection could a quick layer of guts really offer?

[Mu Shu]

Is it bad that I liked the Wolf in this episode? He was pretty funny.

Morgan - He won't get away

Wolf - I'll get away.

Maybe he is going to use Denise as zombie bait, which I hope as I find her useless.

Whoever is playing the wolf is creepy as fuck, and I'd like to see him stick around awhile. I also hope he uses Dr useless as a shield/bait.

Shit, every time they find as awesomely creepy ass and charismatic actor , they use them in secondary roles like Joe the claimer and baseball cap termite instead of casting them as the big bads. The Guvna was more like a pouty Mamas boy, and Gareth was a middle management hipster doofus.

[Bongo Fury]

If I had ever made it to a place like the ASZ I would have told everybody that I would be spending all my days hoarding food in my new house and working like crazy to make the defenses of the place absolutely solid. I wouldn´t leave to go on a run.

 

If you're not going on runs, where do you plan on getting all that food you'll be hoarding? Are you planning to just be a parasite on your community, giving nothing and taking all that you can get? Even Porchdick worked as the community doctor when he wasn't sitting on the porch drinking beer and giving people shit. I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just curious what skills you'll contribute to the group to earn your spot in the community.

[heisenberg]

And contrary to Hollywood belief, a couple of bullets will NOT result in a glorious fireball.

    

 

Yeah but the fuel will not be unleaded anymore... :-)

[that one guy]

Not a top 10 episode, but "Your dad was an asshole" and "Well...shit" might just be the funniest lines ever spoken on TWD. This is not a show that usually makes me laugh out loud.

[Nashville]

Yeah but the fuel will not be unleaded anymore... :-)

...and he shoots, he scores from the three-point line....

[Diane M]

Honestly, I think that bringing Sam was a bad idea,

 

The really bad idea was not explaining to Sam and his brother that they couldn't utter a sound, but just walk silently until they were safely away from the walkers.  These kids have been isolated from the zombie world and have just now become part of it, so it's time for Rick to give them and the remaining community a lesson or two on how to survive among the walkers.

[halkatla]

 

Are you planning to just be a parasite on your community, giving nothing and taking all that you can get?

 

I´d have to be totally honest about just being to scared of the walkers to ever go outside again unless I absolutely had to.

 

I think I said I would be "working like crazy" to make sure there were better defenses than that joke of a wall arround ASZ. So no, I wouldn´t be a parasite, far from it in fact.That is imo much, much better than trying to do something that basically only Darryl, Glen, Abraham and Rick are good at. My food hoarding would stop after I had enough for when/if the defenses would brake, so I could stay in doors for a few days, until Carol & Michonne had gotten everything under control. I forgot to mention that in my spare time I would be lobbying for better & smarter leaders than Rick and Deanna. And I would make sure I had guns on me at all times and I´d learn to shoot them, preferably from a far, like the roof.

 

I think my skill-set is kind of a "more honest Eugene", in that I am scared, I can´t fight and I´m not athletic in the least. But I´m not dumb, I´m quite alert, like to be prepared and I enjoy doing useful things.

Edited November 30, 2015 by halkatla

[grumpypanda]

I do this with all the scripted shows I watch, no matter what, anymore. Even if I'm home to watch 'live' - I just start watching about 15 minutes after the show starts, to make sure I don't catch up to current time while FFing through ads. I don't care if there were only a very few 1.5-2 minute commercial breaks, they're still interruptions. So freaking nice to be able FF through all that shit. Only time I stop to watch a part of the break during TWD is to watch that night's FTWD plane bit and the preview about what's coming on that night's TD. Everything else? Skipped over as quickly as possible.

I watch this show and every show exactly this way. I don't know why anyone with a dvr would watch a show like this live. I'm usually catching up with the live broadcast right as the show is ending. I love my dvr and I can't imagine watching TWD live with all the interruptions. Technology is a beautiful thing.

[SoSueMe]

Deanna possibly eating Judith... why, pray tell, was she not restrained in any way beforehand - nor afterwards??

I know I'm always drawing comparisons to Z Nation, but geez, even they know to duct tape someone down who will be turning soon.

[Haleth]

I didn't think walkers could climb stairs.

Anyway, binge watching these 8 episodes would probably make them work better than having to wait a week between for any movement.

.

If you're not going on runs, where do you plan on getting all that food you'll be hoarding? Are you planning to just be a parasite on your community, giving nothing and taking all that you can get? Even Porchdick worked as the community doctor when he wasn't sitting on the porch drinking beer and giving people shit. I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just curious what skills you'll contribute to the group to earn your spot in the community.

The poster can always make lawn sculptures. The community needs more than owls for civilization to survive.

[catrox14]

Thinking more about the idea that walker guts are too laden with disease/cooties to be used on the bare skin of the face, didn't Rick and Michonne just use their bare hands to make the walker guts camoflauge?

Edited November 30, 2015 by catrox14

[Nashville]

I watch this show and every show exactly this way. I don't know why anyone with a dvr would watch a show like this live. I'm usually catching up with the live broadcast right as the show is ending. I love my dvr and I can't imagine watching TWD live with all the interruptions. Technology is a beautiful thing.

I occasionally like following along with the AMC StorySync web-based stuff, which requires live access. Other than that, no reason.

[Peanut]

I prefer to snark along live.  Otherwise, I'd be screaming at the teevee and I might scare the cats and neighbors.

[Tippi Blevins]

I thought those were gonna be zombie ants at the beginning but it turned out they were just a metaphor.

[Nashville]

Sure Morgan could have asked the doctor.  First he'd need to collect her medical texts and crib notes.  Then sit and wait patiently while she shivers and shakes and researches.  Then he would need to comfort, soothe, and encourage her to be brave. 

"Dammit Jim, I'm a DOCTOR, not a PSYCHIATRIST!!!"

:>

[Janimo]

Not sure if this is the correct thread to post the article, but it cracked me up. Great review, imo, of the MSF.

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/walking-dead-finale-negan-133102208.html

[Nashville]

My three favorite parts of this episode:

• Carl and Ron convo, Part Un: Ron acting like he's dropping some momentous truth bomb on Carl by saying Rick kills people - only to be left slack-jawed and unable to respond when Carl throws Pete's history on the subject right back at Ron.
• Carl and Ron convo, Part Deaux: the bedroom conversation - all of it, however brief - from Start to Finish, as it were. ;>
• Deanna's exit - slinging the bedroom door open, emptying her revolver into the crowd of hall walkers, then sounding her barbaric yawp as the remaining walkers approach. THAT was some Butch&Sundance shit, by cracky.

Although - if Deanna had been thinking a little clearer, she probably should have saved the last bullet for the brand newest member of the walker horde. But I'll blame that on the walker scratch fever.

ETA: Correcting DAMN AUTOCORRECT

Edited December 1, 2015 by Nashville

[BananaRama]

Carol needs to sit Morgan down and tell him what's up.  For instance, "Listen dude, I had to kill this 12 year-old girl named Lizzie after she killed her younger sister and was going to kill Judith next."  And "Back in Georgia I killed a bunch of cannibals right at the moment when they were about to literally butcher Glenn, Daryl and Rick."  And  "Oh, and back when we were in the prison, a couple of people came down with a fever and the sniffles - I killed them and burned their corpses.  Okay - maybe I was a little hasty with that  one - but still."

[Caria]

The angst of the boy trying to kill Rick and Carl as revenge for his father - a perfect example of the kind of boring, half-baked storyline that added absolutely NOTHING to the show while being monumentally boring, cast by actors that seem incredibly wrong or unlikeable for the role. This whole season was full of this, making me miss whole episodes and not even caring, only to conclude last night by a repeat of the notorious "wearing of the guts" that made all of us gasp and marvel at the ingenuity. I know it's hard to keep up with creativity and great storylines season after season, but how about trying to cast better and settling in for mediocre? Because it's not even that anymore. Whoever cast Enid should be demoted.  They've tried to recreate Jennifer Lawrence's character in Winter's Bones but ended up with a flat, unlikeable character that I simply cannot muster up sympathy for no matter how tragic her story. I even want the little child to die. That's how unbearable this show has become. Terrible. Truly terrible.

[AngelaHunter]

Well, this episode drew me back in just when I wanted to throw in the towel.

 

I loved the opening, everything from "Tiptoe" to the ants. It was ominous and eerie.  Loved that instead of usual pseudo-artsy fartsy back and forth/black and white BS, we were swooped right back to where we left off last time. That's the way - just tell the damned story.  I was on the edge of my seat during all that, and then... we're back with Glenn speechifying and cheerleading to Enid. That's getting really old, Glenn. Leave the kid alone.

 

Anyway, whoever mentioned Women Falling; they always do and always have, right at the worst moment and usually always turning an ankle. So cliched.

 

Just when I thought I couldn't hate Morgan any worse than I have since we first saw him Star War-ing the Dire Wolves in the woods, he outdid himself. Not only did he rescue the wolf, but stole the meagre stores of food and medicine from the people who have been feeding him to give to the Wolf, who murdered some of those very people. God, I was nearly jumping up and down and yelling for Carol (or anyone) to kill him just to get him off my screen. And now Olivia will probably die because of him. Nice going, Mr. "All Life is Sacred".

 

3.Deanna's exit - slinging the bedroom door open, emptying her revolver into the crowd of hall walkers

 

That was great. It made up for her death-bed speeches, with the tinkling, manipulative piano music accompanying her words. I love that she went out in a blaze of glory, and I need to watch it again, but I thought I counted only five shots and thought she saved one for herself.

 

Sam and his yelling MOM in the midst of the herd - he's lucky Carol wasn't there or he would have really gotten it!

 

[Raven1707]

And also, I'm already sick of Negan

(sorry, Jeffrey Dean Morgan, who I usually like).

 

Yeah, I'm sick of Negan too. I blame Kirkman.

 

This show is much better when it just uses Kirkman's work as a guideline, rather than adapting it word for word from the page. There was a time when the showrunners recognized that.

 

See comment above. Then, see comment below.

 

Wasn't season 4 Gimple's first season as showrunner? I loved season 4, for the most part. It's probably tied for my favorite with season 1. But I'm convinced that Kirkman has had him locked in his basement the last 2 seasons, and is forcing him to run the show as HE would. 

 

Wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

Several insiders confirm that Kirkman, whose detailed graphic novels form the basis of the series, is "very proprietary," as one puts it. One adds, "I believe Robert wants to maintain a certain amount of his control, and AMC needs Robert for the fan base." But despite the vitriol, some sources involved with Walking Dead say Kirkman was one of several producers on the show who had issues with Mazzara and his vision.

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/walking-dead-why-glen-mazzara-410017

Edited December 1, 2015 by HalcyonDays

[Giselle]

And I call bullshit on Judith sitting so quiet under the meat blanket. I breastfed both of my kids for over a year. 'nuff said.

Maybe Judith had her mouth full...sucking on a meat blanket "sugar teat"

[magemaud]

How much time had passed since Dr. Denise was locked in with the Wolf before she even bothered to look at his wound (which was the reason for her going with Morgan in the first place)? 

[Mu Shu]

"Dammit Jim, I'm a DOCTOR, not a PSYCHIATRIST!!!"

:>

Please accept this internet. You are the major prize winner today.

[Raven1707]

Still need to watch the episode again before commenting further, but in the meantime, I'm counting the days:

 

From and including: Monday, November 30, 2015
To and including: Sunday, February 14, 2016
Result: 77 days

 

It is 77 days from the start date to the end date, end date included

Or 2 months, 16 days including the end date

 

Alternative time units

 

77 days can be converted to one of these units:

• 6,652,800 seconds
• 110,880 minutes
• 1848 hours
• 77 days
• 11 weeks

[Macbeth]

I prefer to snark along live.  Otherwise, I'd be screaming at the teevee and I might scare the cats and neighbors.

 

  Me too Peanut.

[paigow]

"Dammit Jim, I'm a DOCTOR, not a PSYCHIATRIST!!!"

:>

"Baby I hear the blues a-calling, tossed salad and scrambled eggs"

"Good Night Alexandria"

[catrox14]

From the ALWAYS funny TippiTV

 

Edited December 1, 2015 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

• As long as the ants weren't some kind of snowglobe/zombies are all in crazy Sam's head symbol, I'm OK with the metaphor.

 

Oh, please, don't even mention that. That is just too awful to even consider. Also do not give the writers ideas.

 

(To this day, I am still disappointed beyond all reason when reminded of that snow globe finale. I adored St. Elsewhere, and that ending for me was the worst... tied only with what CBS did to the finale of Medium (I try to remember the NBC days and forget that last season on CBS ever happened.))

[Ronin Jackson]

Gimple must be a dogmatic anti-Darwinist. He seems fixated on making the show about people unfit to survive surviving anyway... until of course they finally do something stupid enough to die violently for cameras.... but only AFTER a three month break... because you know, that's something we're all going to be waiting in baited breath to see happen because it's the friggin' WALKING DEAD, highest rated show on cable TV!

 

But wait, maybe I'm being unnecessarily harsh. I mean, obviously that hold pre-credit thing with the ants eating up the kid's cookie is some profoundly relevant metaphor for the struggle of the human condition or something right?

[ferretrick]

Look at some fucking flowers, Sam.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

The first half of the season was all about annoying kids you wish would die. Quickly. It's becoming "DeGrassi High -The Zombie Years".

 

They were wrong before, they weren't always already infected - until now.  FTWD's problems have infected TWD, at least this season. 

 

Teenage angst in a ZA  ....  No.  Just no, man.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I know what you're saying.  I love JDM

and I'm excited about the character.  Like you, I know nothing about Negan except I've frequently read he's so bad they could never bring him to the show.  Interesting.

 

I wouldn't say I "love" JDM, just cause I have only seen him in one thing I've watched. 

 

No matter what, he'll always be 'John Winchester' to me.  [and was actually only in a very few odd brief appearances in s1 & 2 of Supernatural]

[catrox14]

 

No matter what, he'll always be 'John Winchester' to me.  [and was actually only in a very few odd brief appearances in s1 & 2 of Supernatural]

 

JDM appeared in 12 episodes in the first two seasons. That's more than I thought. 

 

ETA: I think though John's presence and impact on the Winchesters keeps him in our minds and probably will till the end of the show even if he's never seen again.

 

So I think between JDM's charisma and talent,

I think he'll make Negan compelling in a horrible way.

Edited December 1, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Spoilertags

[FierceCritter]

You know what bugged me about this (and now that I think about it, the original use of this technique way back when)? If all the walkers smell like gnarly old walker rot, what good does it really do for humans to smear it all over themselves anyway? Meaning, if the zombies are used to smelling their own goo, wouldn't the scent of humans--even coated in said goo--still pique the walkers' interest?

 

I don't know if I am articulating this well, but if they already can sniff out one human even when that human is in the middle of a huge and very aromatic zombie horde, how much protection could a quick layer of guts really offer?

I made a similar point about Michonne's pet walkers. That is, one person holding two walkers by chains is just as "findable" as one person standing in the middle of a field of walkers without holding onto one or two of them.

[peach]

I'm just aggravated that, by someone's count on this board, there were 29 people alive between CDB and ASZ.  And we're only down by one after last night.  And then they showed us a Broadway motorcycle gang, thereby canceling out the loss of Deanna and adding even MORE g-damned characters.

 

I realize they're "about to" lose some more (in three months), but it needs to be, like...20 of them.

[AndySmith]

Everyone was screaming to get them off the farm, now we're complaining that they should settle and rebuild?  The show runners can't win.

 

Well, the farm kind of sucked as a place to rebuild a society. Alexandria made sense, from an infrastructure point of view. If only those idiots built a better wall...

 

Anyway, it isn't a case of complaining for the sake of complaining. We want to see them settling and rebuilding, we just want to see it done well. Not with the bad writing we've gotten recently. And as others have pointed out, it would be a bit early to focus on rebuilding in season 2. But we're in season 6 now. It should be a focus at this point.

 

And also, I'm already sick of Negan

(sorry, Jeffrey Dean Morgan, who I usually like).

 

Not a fan of JDM, so not looking forward to this too much. Granted, he isn't the first person I'd have thought of anyway with regards to Negan.