S06.E08: Start To Finish

[lulee]

How is it that Kneeeeegun and the Governor don't cross paths? (I know he's dead, I'm just saying they were building their megalomaniacal societies and keep running across Rick's group but never each other?) Or the hospital kidnappers or the wolves, why aint Kneeeeegun out there getting the unfair wolves, they seem a much more logical problem to solve.

The Governor story was completely in Georgia (unless we count his ghost appearing to Tyrese at Noah's house in Virginia) and now the action's in Virginia. The Governor probably had a pretty tight perimeter around Woodbury. We don't know yet if the Wolves and Negan's group have crossed paths, but we know that the Wolves found Alexandria and that Negan's crew isn't far.

[RustbeltWriter]

This whole episode I'm waiting for Glenn to saunter down the road a mile or so and lean on the horn of one of those cars they had lined up near the quarry so the herd would be drawn away from Alexandria. After all, a horn is what led them to Alexandria. But no, it was more important to lecture Enid and climb a tree.

[Beast Saver]

Well, that kinda sucked.  Poor pacing.

 

I am glad they used the walker guts again...but shit, um you need to put them on your face too. That was just stupid.

 

That little shit Sam is going to get them all killed.

 

They have never put walker guts on their faces. The only time something was put on a face was when Carol put guts on her poncho and mud on her face outside of Terminus. 

[JBody]

Your Honour, I would like to present to you Exhibit A, the episode under discussion (season 6, episode 8, entitled “From Start to Finish [it yourself]”) to demonstrate why I consume spoilers of TWD.  I already got all that righteous indignation out of my system a little while ago.  So, in a perverse way that only a Gimple could understand, the actual episode played out better than expected.  Which ain’t saying much, really.

 

Right, so where to start, where to start…  The usual bullshit from this season was on display tonight, in having hardened zombie killers act like freshly minted noobs to the apocalypse.  Check.  I remember making a (not terribly funny) joke a few weeks ago about how we can’t get through one damned season without some moron tripping and falling for the drama (at least Tara had her untied bootlaces to blame) and here we have Carol, Maggie and someone else, errr Deanna? and even the Ricktator wiping out like they’re all on a slip ‘n slide.  That was hilarious.

 

I commented in Morgan’s thread about his assassination so I’ll leave it there.  The whole Carol fight and Denise kidnapping was just one step beyond stupid in an episode devoted to it.

 

Enjoyed the torch-passing scene with Who’s Deanna and Michonne, although the timing was bizarre --but that’s life in the ZA, eh?

 

I really dug the recap more than episode.  Particularly the “A Word From Our Sponsor” bit: the Time-Life Collection of Glenn Rhee Inspirational Lectures Series.   OMG Glenn shut up.  Enid is too kind to stand around and listen to that.

 

Sam: well yeah.  I feel really bad for the kid.  He can’t deal.  He couldn’t deal last season, it got worse this season, and now he’s a shut-in with his legos and crayons and ant cookies and just made me so sad.  And yes to the demon from Insidious reference; that upped the creep factor for me with “Tip-toe Through the Tulips” on repeat.  All these so-called parental guardians failed this kid big time.  Fucking assholes.  Sigh.  Now it looks like he’s about to get everyone eaten.  Why the hell couldn’t they have taken two seconds to duct tape his mouth shut if he was too straight up traumatised to understand the gravity of the situation?  Assholes, I say.  Good call on the people up thread who conjectured that Mom looked like she was gonna book it without her youngest son.

 

I liked Carl in this episode.  I don’t recall ever saying (writing) that before.

Edited November 30, 2015 by JBody

[BananaRama]

Shoot the bazooka.  I'll forgive you if you shoot the bazooka.

No kidding. I bet this is the last time they go riding around the countryside with the bazooka in the back of the truck and not armed instead of having it sitting in someone's lap. "Get out of the truck." and Abe says, "NO!" and fires the bazooka into the middle of the pack of motorcycle riders.

Edited November 30, 2015 by BananaRama

[SometimesBites]

I'm going to just speak to your post as line items, because SO MUCH AGREEMENT.

I really liked this episode.  It's up there with the Wolf attack, IMO.

Agreed. The only thing I didn't like is that it needed to be longer; they could have fleshed out (ha!) some of the scenes a little more and given us a glimpse of Aaron, Heath, and others. The cliffhangers I'm fine with--I mean, they bug, but in the intended way.

 

Loved Tara not leaving people behind again.  She started out such an arrogant idiot, and now she's becoming a female Glenn.

 

Maggie is a badass again.  I felt bad for LC having to do those scenes in such skin tight pants.

The ladder scene was tense. When she got up top and laid down I saw it as a callback to Glenn when he woke up after the prison fell.

 

The opening reminded me of the scene of Carol seeing Lizzie playing tag with the walker.

Me too! It was the scratchy old music. (And it's NOT the Tiny Tim version of Tiptoe Through the Tulips, y'all. Much older than that.) Several times the show has used an oddball music selection in a way that juxtaposes fabulously with the weirdness of zombies, and I love it every time. Now Sam is tiptoeing through the tulips, all right--too bad he doesn't have the instinct to STFU.

 

The actor playing Denise looked really pretty in this episode.  I thought she was going to psychologically manipulate and talk the wolf down.  Guess her psychiatric skills are as sharp as her medical ones.

Also agreed. I love Merritt Wever--she has beautiful skin, hair, and eyes. I also think she has a lot more range as an actor than the Denise character is being allowed. My hope is that she'll survive her kidnapping and have a chance to develop later.

 

I liked the call back to Guts.  I'm sure all the people here complaining about them not doing that will be happy.

Ah, the tricky deus ex machina of zombie guts. So handy when they actually decide to make use of it. Apparently so easy to overlook as a saving grace.

 

Deanna went out like a warrior.  Good for her.

LOVED. That rebel yell was the ultimate "come and get me, suckahs!" :)

 

FPP is now totally redeemed in my eyes.  I'm shocked to find myself agreeing. I kept hoping they'd feed him to the walkers at some point, but now I think he might just be of use. And gorgeous to look at. I think it's really pathetic that Eugene was still cowering and calling for help when both Deanna and FPP were stepping up.  It's a disservice to the character. THIS. Why did they inch him along in being more capable (e.g., saving Tara) only to have him decompensate at the sticking point?  He doesn't have to be Rambo, but come on.

 

I thought Carol went tearing off to get to Judith.  It made sense that she went to eliminate the wolf. Yes. Because loose ends make Carol's ass itch.  I'm sure she's going to be criticized for that action, but the wolf is stupid enough to go out there hacking at humans even as the walkers attack.  I actually loved the show down between Carol and Morgan because the actors really brought it, and it made sense to the characters.  I hated when he threw Carol down, but I took it as the anger simmering in Morgan that he's been trying to control by not killing. I think Morgan did what his teacher did--when Morgan tried to kill Eastman, Eastman put him on the floor. Wish he'd used it on the wolf.  I want Carol and Morgan to become friends.  They balance each other out. My thought precisely. Carol has been known to act too rashly and actually kill people that didn't necessarily need to be killed. Morgan is stuck in an over-corrected place where he's not killing killers PRN. If they could balance their respective tendencies, they would make a formidable and effective duo.

[diebartdie]

I think Who'sDeanna did save the last bullet for herself but even if she did not, there would not be enough of her body left to pose any threat to the living. Edit to add I agree with many of you, if they could hash it out, Carol and Morgan would be a fucking awesome duo. Shit now Im day dreaming a spin off starring Carol, Morgan, Michonne and Daryl, the most bad ass of the bad asses (Rick is bad ass too but Im over his bossy mcbossalot thang)

Edited November 30, 2015 by diebartdie

[Rosiejuliemom]

I feel like this show needs an end date they can work towards. They can always continue with different people in a different place, anthology style. My frustration is with the characters not learning, new people would fix that.

 

As much as I still like this show, I agree. They are at ep 75 right now. I wouldn't mind it if they decided to end at ep 100-125, as long as the story reaches a satisfying conclusion. I honestly don't want it to drag out for years with no end point in sight. Time isn't so much a problem in the comics, but the show is going to have to do major time skips or kill off characters, unless they want to run into some problems with aging. If the show re-tooled into an anthology style, I'd be all for it. Maybe we'd finally get confirmation on the Morales family.

 

Actually, I'm still holding out hope for a miniseries or summer series covering the beginning of the outbreak. Not FTWD. I want to see Shane, Lori, and Carl's trip to Atlanta, how Dale met Andrea and Amy, T-Dog checking on people with his church van, Glenn delivering pizzas, Hershel and Otis wrangling walkers into the barn...the list goes on. I'd even be down for seeing the origins of Woodbury and Alexandria! 

[diebartdie]

 

I'd even be down for seeing the origins of Woodbury and Alexandria!

Meh, more like, you'd get the origin of the fruit hippies.

[nodorothyparker]

Your Honour, I would like to present to you Exhibit A, the episode under discussion (season 6, episode 8, entitled “From Start to Finish [it yourself]”) to demonstrate why I consume spoilers of TWD.  I already got all that righteous indignation out of my system a little while ago.  So, in a perverse way that only a Gimple could understand, the actual episode played out better than expected.  Which ain’t saying much, really.

 

I'm a spoiler whore anyway, but I'll totally concur on this.  The spoilers seemed to get progressively worse in the past week or so as more and more became available but at least I knew going in that I wasn't going to be happy with very much of it.  My husband is a total spoilerphobe and he was PISSED that this was the much vaunted midseason finale after this particular season of waiting for something to happen.

Edited November 30, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[Rosiejuliemom]

Meh, more like, you'd get the origin of the fruit hippies.

 

*best Scar voice*

 

No! No...anything but that.

 

You're probably right. I'd be all excited for a Walking Dead origin story...and then it would be Claimer Joe or the Lollicop Guild.

[diebartdie]

I'll say this for the show, there were some fucking incredible zombies in this episode (I think this was also one where Nicotero was a zombie and I think I spotted him coming into the house).The special effects of this show are so amazing, it really works to keep my interest even when the story itself might be driving me mad. I liked this episode, I really did. OF COURSE there was a ton of stupid shit but come on people, this is The Walking Dead you are watching and you've been watching for YEARS now! You KNOW these people all have a steady supply of stupid pills. I think Carol would have actually bolted the door back in order to keep Morgan out (whatever, I know the bolt was on the outside but this is fucking CAROL we're talking about, she could do that shit and make a killer casserole and then deal with that pesky horde before the dinner even needed to be taken out the oven). I think Denise would have told Morgan, "uh no way Im sitting in this room with this fucked up serial killer dude, fuck you" (I freeking loved it when she told Wolf Dave Grohl, "You are so full of shit!") I think Rick would have opened Sam's door and ripped that goddamn record off the player and smashed it on the floor then growled at Sam "quiet kid". I think Glenn would have run a block or two away from the town, found a brick and laid it on a car horn, hid then made his way back to town, probably covered in walker guts. None of that happened though but shit yall, EVERY episode out heroes do shit that WE "know" they would or would not do. Its the nature of the tv show.

Edited November 30, 2015 by diebartdie

[Bad Example]

Right? Why was everyone falling at the beginning? I thought that was a random ASZ-er at first and not Maggie. Maggie doesn't trip and fall like a newbie.

 

Well, she *did* appear to be wearing some spiffy new boots. @@ 

[mommalib]

I'd like to think at some point she realized that the dangers outside of walls would have gotten to them eventually and still hating rick is completely illogical. 

 

• Her husband is dead because of one of her own people who was beating his wife and children.
• The walkers in the canyon would have got them en masse without Rick. Some are there now but it could have been a lot worse.
• The Wolves would have gotten them without Rick because of the lost photos showing the place existed. One of her own people did that.
• The new big bad was probably going to come whether Rick was there or not since they had "things."
• Maybe she even realized that her living son is kind of a douche bag and none of these people would steal food from a pantry.

 

None of those things had to do with Rick. Her people needed to fight and because of Rick they are much better prepared to do so than under her rule.

 

Even the actress stated that the character had grown and wasn't the same woman we met at the start of the season, thanks to Rick she is a bad ass "samurai." Instead of killing herself, she figured she'd take a few with her. I think that arc fits pretty clearly with what we saw.

 

As for Morgan ... 

 

His return was like we made a wish to an evil genie. We wanted "Morgan" back, and the genie said, "OKAY!" but we weren't specific enough so now we're stuck with this psycho version of "Morgan" because "a lot" has happened to him since we saw him last.  Next time, we should write it out with bullet points. 

Very well said.  If anything Rick has helped her and her people not hurt them.

I think Who'sDeanna did save the last bullet for herself but even if she did not, there would not be enough of her body left to pose any threat to the living. Edit to add I agree with many of you, if they could hash it out, Carol and Morgan would be a fucking awesome duo. Shit now Im day dreaming a spin off starring Carol, Morgan, Michonne and Daryl, the most bad ass of the bad asses (Rick is bad ass too but Im over his bossy mcbossalot thang)

Rick bit a guys neck out and is the most aggressive. I would say that he is the biggest badass.

[Bongo Fury]

As per usual with TWD, a plot driven episode that makes characters act completely out of character so that all the plot points can be hit. 

 

You've all touched nicely on most of the stupid, so rather than repeat, I'll comment on ANOTHER dumb ass plan by Rick.

 

So, they need to get to the armory to get guns and ammo to clear out the walkers, sounds good, logical. But in order to accomplish that plan they decide to take along an infant, a traumatized child and mommy dearest. WTF. Wouldn't it make more sense to leave Jessie and the kids barricaded in an upstairs room while the 'fighter' go to the armory? Jessie and the kids would be more than safe with a barred door and a hallway blocked with furniture, walkers would never get to them. An Rick and company would be free to do their thing without having to worry about protecting all the vulnerables. If Rick, Michonne, Carl and Ron & FPP can't get to the armory and clear the ASZ when they are free to act, and then go back to release the people they left behind, how will they be able to accomplish the goal when they are worried about protecting Judith?

 

It's just another case of a dumbass idea driven by the plot need to have Sam freak out and cause things to go to hell. It's getting tiring when the same lazy writing is dragging down what otherwise could be a good show.

[Mu Shu]

On a lighter note, if only Tobin had been riding with the fuel truck gang.

Then we could have had the evil bikers exclaim, "What the hell? I think we just captured 4/6 of the Village People. Concert tonight at Negan's!"

edited b/c I always forget the police officer. Rick, you can come along too. Really, is it any sillier than what they DID say?

Holy shit, that's funny. Abe can be Sgt Ginger. I was more worried about Daryl and Sasha being mocked for hanging out with a carpetbagging jackanapes than their impending danger.

Blah blah Negan. Lather, rinse repeat.

[Beast Saver]

Well, she *did* appear to be wearing some spiffy new boots. @@ 

Carol fell because she slipped on some bullets Ron had dropped.

[JBody]

Well, she *did* appear to be wearing some spiffy new boots. @@

Hmmmm. Maybe it was the skintight jeans? I'm sure her fans weren't complaining but all I could think was how hard it would be to do all that while wearing pants that cut off the circulation --they just looked that uncomfortable and constricting. So I blame the jeans. Carol tripped on bullets, Who'sDeanna tripped on a walker and Rick tripped over his own cowboy boots. Needs a new pair likely. Coral should note that --Christmas is around the corner.

[JBody]

I watched that postcredit scene on the YouTubes today. I would not have gotten out of the truck. FU man. Especially to a bunch of Claimers on motorcycles. Prefer if Abe had answered with a bazooka aimed in their general direction.

[RustbeltWriter]

What was up with the doudble sided deadbolt in Jesse's garage that let Ron isolate himself and Carl? It's odd that a builder installed a lock on the garage door so that someone could lock themselves in the garage and not be accessible from the house.

[lulee]

This whole episode I'm waiting for Glenn to saunter down the road a mile or so and lean on the horn of one of those cars they had lined up near the quarry so the herd would be drawn away from Alexandria. After all, a horn is what led them to Alexandria. But no, it was more important to lecture Enid and climb a tree.

Exactly and the noise helped save him in the alley (plus a dumpster, a heaping of implausibility and lack of continuity and/or defying physics). So why he didn't think, "I need to draw them away from Maggie. Sound would work." is baffling. We've seen that Glenn is smarter than that like escaping from the prison.

[catrox14]

They have never put walker guts on their faces. The only time something was put on a face was when Carol put guts on her poncho and mud on her face outside of Terminus. 

 

It's been quite a while since I watched GUTS but (aside from showing actors faces reasons) I thought back then they were concerned about getting blood or fluids in their mouths and eyes since they didn't yet understand how being infection worked. So unless I'm forgetting something, it seems to me not putting it on their face other than the gross factor, doesn't make sense. Just to ensure they aren't sniffed out.

[Rockfish]

They were the cookie the zombies were the ants

I loved that Deanna died how she lived - not knowing what the hell she was doing.

I'm trying to catch up on all the comments, but before I forget I wanted to say that this made me laugh. During the Previously on The Walking Dead, I got irritated all over again with Deanna deciding that that was the right moment to share her plans for Stuptopia, er, I mean Utopia or Alexandria. And then last night when the show kept switching scenes to her talking and talking and scaring babies, I thought I was going to lose it.

[FlowerofCarnage]

Jessie's crotch fruit are the absolute worst! Just when I thought there couldn't be a more annoying kid than Zack from the Strain, along comes Sam!

[heisenberg]

His placement in that chain is most likely to take out Ron and his mom.  So might be useful.

I do hope so, it would be so wonderful!

[ACW]

Why did the Wolf take Denise? Didn't he see all the Walkers when he walked out the door? She was definitely extra baggage.

 

  Remember Shane and Otis?

  "I don’t have to outrun the bear..."

  That's less likely to work under present circumstances, but the Wolf doesn't know how bad things are yet. 

[Rockfish]

It's also hilarious how immaculate Jessie's hair is.

And how awful Sam's haircut is--especially since she's supposed to be a hairdresser.

[candall]

ghoulina, on 30 Nov 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

 

My husband was like, "Nah, the ants are the zombies and the cookies are the town".

Oh. So they're just going to hit us over the head with symbolism now. Cool.

[,,,]

Sigh.....I think that even HAVING a mid-season finale does a disservice to this show. It forces the writers to try and come up with TWO grand, suspenseful, cliffhanger type episodes and I'm just over it.

[...]

Exactly! I'm glad Deanna wants to be a badass now, but the whole thing annoyed me. Mainly because - they need every freaking weapon they can get! Put her down, take her gun, and be done with it.

/////////////////////////////

 

 

1.  I thought the ant/cookie thing was some sort of clever time trick foreshadowing the entire compound being deserted in the final scene, i.e. now there's only nature to address the hastily abandoned cookies left half-eaten on the plate.   Ha.  These people might blow the next two years shuffling toward the fence while we rotate from Glenn & Enid sittin' in a tree, to Abraham, Martin and John, to Carol & Morgan patching each other up, to Denise & The Wolf. (Trombone!)  Maybe Deanna will have a walker arc--on TD, she indicated a certain willingness to come back.

 

2.  This split season idea is SO annoying, and they're ALL doing it now.  Doling out a handful of episodes every few months does not endear me.  Come on, 21-minute sitcoms and 6-8 episode "mini seasons" obviously come at the expense of the material.

 

3.  Not to mention they left her five bullets because they knew she'd screw up her head shot.

Edited November 30, 2015 by candall

[catrox14]

I'm rather disappointed that the show didn't use "Ants Marching" and/or The Ants Go Marching" somewhere in the episode.

[SometimesBites]

And how awful Sam's haircut is--especially since she's supposed to be a hairdresser.

THANK YOU! I've been inwardly rolling my eyes over Sam's bowl cut for weeks. :)

[Samx]

I decided to watch this episode at my parents house after we'd had Thanksgiving dinner (Thanksgiving for us had been postponed) and my dad, who is 81 and has never seen the show, basically did a running commentary that spoke my mind about the state of this episode.

 

"Why are they tripping so much? Shouldn't they be used to this by now?"

"Why are they just running around like idiots?"

"She's smart, she has a samurai sword - why don't more of them have swords?"

"Is she a regular [Maggie]? Oh, then she won't die." 

[during Deanna and Rick's ~serious~ talking scene] "Oh, no one's giving you an Emmy for this, just get on with it already!"

 

Worst MSF in the series. Maybe I overestimate CDB but I feel like they've been in worse walker-related situations and it blows my mind how ineptly they handled most of the episode. Maybe I'm underestimating the amount of walkers or just don't see them as real threats to anyone who is remotely capable of taking care of business. Part of me wished the horde's purpose was to wipe out non-essential ASZhats (re: 99% of them) -- it's clear Rick still sees them as useless, as seen from his reaction to Deanna's "please take care of Spencer as one of your own"   Rick: "Ehhh"  

 

The "Prologue" for the next episode was not exciting - of course Negan is coming,

we found that out weeks ago when the Jeffrey Dean Morgan casting news came out (which I think was a mistake to release so soon). Even though I actually kind of like Badlands, AMC is making me hate it in principle with this "stay tuned for extra scene during the Badlands" crap. This will be the first time I'm not bummed about the mid-season hiatus.

Edited December 1, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Spoilertags

[Ellaria]

"Why are they tripping so much? Shouldn't they be used to this by now?"

"Why are they just running around like idiots?"

 

I think that I was so busy being bored by this episode that I didn't notice the number of characters tripping over their own feet. Now that everyone - who was more observant than I - has pointed this out, I ask this question: why do TPTB use this as a device to create suspense? So many poor choices in this episode.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[Boofish]

When I saw Deanna hunched over that crib my first thought was "Rick the dingo ate your baby"

[mandolin]

I think this half season has been mostly a bust. There were things that I liked, such as the episode with the wolves and Carol, but the glacial pace is destroying the momentum for me.

On rewatch, the last scene where they come out of the house covered in guts, with the music playing and everything in slow motion, I think the actors really sold their feelings there. I enjoyed that scene.

I think I'll go watch some old episodes. That is how I usually soothe myself after a sucky string of episodes. Ah yes, good to see you again, Season 2 episode 7.

Edited November 30, 2015 by mandolin

[dannymoon]

I agree that when you're watching on the couch it's easy to know what to do, I do have time to think about it without being faced with an immediate threat, unlike the characters. Where I get annoyed with the dumbness is when characters we have known for a long time don't use previous experience to help them through situations i.e., finally using walker guts again tonight! When Rick said they would do that I thought well about time but also, ok, you remember doing that before so why didn't you use it to get through the runaway walker horde? I totally give the Alexandrians a free pass on most things because it's only been a few days for them, they would all still be in a state of shock and they are inexperienced.

I agree 1000%. If I was still alive at this point (bloody unlikely), I'd still make stupid decisions right in the moment. No doubt. But it's inexcusable that the writers are having our team forget about the Guts. When Rick was in the RV and realized the horde was coming, there might not have been a moment to grab a walker and slice him open, etc. But there's no way Michonne and Glenn, both who have done this first hand, would have forgotten about Guts a few episodes back. Goodness, I was annoyed that whole episode. In the ZA I know what my job would have been - making sheet/Guts combo clothing for all! Different sizes and everything.

[Boofish]

You can't cover your face in toxic blood and guts. You just have to smell dead; not look dead. That being said I hate Coral's hat just as much as the next guy but there was no need to remove it once he smelled dead. That was mud/dirt on Carol face in Season 5; not walker guts.

 

I'm not sure I would just walk among the dead just because I'm wearing "walker chic spring 2015" It's not fool proof and should only be used in extreme and desperate situations. No way I would just walk among the dead with an intestine around my neck unless I absolutely had to; just like in Season 1, things got desperate and it was the only way out.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Boofish

[revbfc]

This show is bullshit. Make with some plot, showrunners!

[magemaud]

I wish they had just left Sam behind in his room, playing with his toys, listening to what was apparently the only record in the house (and what kid nowadays even has a 60's era turntable? I haven't seen that since junior high) and attracting ants to the cookie. I think my mother would have said, "All right young man, just STAY here if you can't cooperate!" Insisting that he join them in their gut covered exit from the house is going to come back to bite (one or more of) them in the ass (or elsewhere)! 

 

Although it might be fun to speculate what he was trying to say to Jessie. My guess is "Mom...Mom....YOUR COOKIES SUCK!" 

Edited November 30, 2015 by magemaud

[ghoulina]

One thing that I thought was funny, was how greasy Sam's hair was in one day and the dark circles under his eyes! I know that they were selling the "kid goes psychotic" from fear as the story so that Sam can put the group in harms way, BUT they needed more time to set up that whole arc. Sam is pretty used to violence because of his dad. I think that they needed to show more tidbits that he was off before this to make it more plausible. And yeah, the stiff Carol said to him was really wrong. I know that the kids need to learn to be strong, but Sofia ran off into the woods out of fear and became a walker because of it.

 

The thing is, Sam was still cool with Carol after she said that stuff about tying him to the tree. He came over several more times, seemed like he wanted to get close to her, etc. I would find it more believable if it was the Unfair Wolf attack that just sent the kid into a state of extreme fear, but not the shit Carol said. Having him obsessively drawing pictures about it feels out place, after how he's been with her since. What would have been better is if the kid came down, after Jessie told him not to, SAW her killing the She-Wolf and that is what resigned him to never coming down again. And now he's drawing pictures of beasts with "W" on the forehead. But yea, he would not have sunken eyes and look unwashed in a matter of days. 

[Macbeth]

So Maggie is no longer Deanna's #2.  Even in the Zombie Apocalypse there is still a thing as a mommy track.

 

I am thrilled because Michonne needs a real story line.  PLEASE TWD.

[ghoulina]

"Why are they just running around like idiots?"

 

The entirety of the last 4 episodes summed up quite nicely. I think I love your dad. 

[Bongo Fury]

... my dad, who is 81 and has never seen the show, basically did a running commentary that spoke my mind about the state of this episode.

 

"Why are they tripping so much? Shouldn't they be used to this by now?"

"Why are they just running around like idiots?"

"She's smart, she has a samurai sword - why don't more of them have swords?"

"Is she a regular [Maggie]? Oh, then she won't die." 

[during Deanna and Rick's ~serious~ talking scene] "Oh, no one's giving you an Emmy for this, just get on with it already!"

 

Are you interested in renting your dad out to watch TWD with me? I'll pay good money to listen to quality snark like that.

[RedheadZombie]

Right? Why was everyone falling at the beginning? I thought that was a random ASZ-er at first and not Maggie. Maggie doesn't trip and fall like a newbie.

 

Maggie and Carole fell.  Why is it always a woman?  How about Daryl tripping and falling because he can't see through that greasy mop hanging in his eyes.

[candall]

Blah blah Negan. Lather, rinse repeat.

 

 

The "Prologue" for the next episode was not exciting - of course Negan is coming,

we found that out weeks ago when the Jeffrey Dean Morgan casting news came out (which I think was a mistake to release so soon)

 

 From the "extra clip," I thought the snotty little pipsqueak on the motorcycle was Negan.  That Kleenex belongs to ME.  Right.  Sigh, yawn, have a nice holiday, show.  See you in February, probably.  Whatever.

 

Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Negan?  zip!  180.

 

It's funny, because I don't even know who this Negan chap is, except I've heard his name murmured in hushed and horrified tones as part of TWD zeitgeist for years.

 

But If the rest of the season has JDM as THE Big Bad counterpart to Rick--opponents I can envision as worthy of each other--I could definitely get excited about that.  The question of whether humans or walkers pose the greater threat is so much more interesting than the recent issues:  cemetery privileges, fence props, teenage hormones, whether that "all life is precious" thing functions on a sliding scale.

 

The most visceral part of this episode was Maggie struggling to survive.  I'm ready for more of that sort of tension and I think they might be getting ready to bring it.

Edited December 1, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Spoilertags

[Nashville]

I don't know who was stupider, Morgan, Carol, Rosita or Tara. How could Rosita and Tara drop their guns? When did they get so stupid?

 

Totally agree - plus, the writers missed out on the definitive response:

Wolf: Give me your guns. I want them.

Rosita: You're a grownup. Learn to deal with disappointment.

  

His placement in that chain is most likely to take out Ron and his mom.  So might be useful.

 

Actually, I was thinking this was the perfect setup for Jessie.

Jessie is holding Sam's hand, and Sam is holding Ron's hand.

All Jessie has to do is let go of Sam's hand - two problem birds killed with one stone.

Well ... until they turn and you have to kill them again.

But you get my drift.

 

Yup. In fact, he was basically doing the exact same zoning in and out thing Nicholas did. Yawn. Find another gimmick.

  

Well, as Morgan said, she may have had a concussion. Apparently falling on the sidewalk will do that to you.

...annnd apparently Morgan thinks the proper treatment for a concussion is to slam the victim's back of their head down on a concrete floor.

Again.

I don't think that's the right course of treatment.

Morgan should have asked the doctor first.

After all, she was sitting right there.

 

And then, seeing these guys with weapons no yet drawn, they decide to pull over and see what's going on? Instead of gunning it and shooting them with their own automatic weapons? 

 

ITA. If Daryl had stayed true to his good ol' boy roots, he'd have dropped it/popped it/punched it, and that truck [which was (a) already rolling and (b) with even a partial fuel load had to weigh 3-4 tons minimum] would have knocked the Neganites into little bitty biker bits before they could have brought a weapon to bear. And contrary to Hollywood belief, a couple of bullets will NOT result in a glorious fireball.

  

I was expecting Judith's first words to be "Shut up, Sam!"

  

No way Sam lives that long.

When I saw Deanna hunched over that crib my first thought was "Rick the dingo ate your baby"

Ok - so last night I was out late at a fundraiser thingy, and caught TWD on the DVR.

When I'm watching it, I'm doing my normal thing - FFing high-speed through the commercials, hitting Pause when I see TWD stuff on the screen, and backing up to the resumption after the commercial break.

So - the crib scene was the first thing right after one of the commercial breaks.

I hit Pause, and the TV screen freezes on a very -ahem- interesting tableau:

Deanna facing the screen, bent over the edge of the crib, head all the way back with her mouth wide open forming a perfect O - and Rick Grimes grabbing her from directly behind with a grimace on his face and something in his hand.

Very shortly thereafter I found out what was actually going on in that scene.

But I GUARANTEE you it wasn't nearly as interesting as what I initially thought. ;>

[Mattipoo]

What a boring episode! Ready for

Sam and Ron to bite it, and for Negan to appear and Lucille everyone else except Rick, Glenn, Michonne, Carl and possibly Judith

.

Edited December 1, 2015 by David T. Cole
Spoilers

[revbfc]

From the "extra clip," I thought the snotty little pipsqueak on the motorcycle was Negan. That Kleenex belongs to ME. Right. Sigh, yawn, have a nice holiday, show. See you in February, probably. Whatever.

Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Negan? zip! 180.

It's funny, because I don't even know who this Negan chap is,

except I've heard his name murmured in hushed and horrified tones as part of TWD zeitgeist for years.

But If the rest of the season has JDM as THE Big Bad counterpart to Rick--opponents I can envision as worthy of each other--I could definitely get excited about that. The question of whether humans or walkers pose the greater threat is so much more interesting than the recent issues: cemetery privileges, fence props, teenage hormones, whether that "all life is precious" thing functions on a sliding scale.

The most visceral part of this episode was Maggie struggling to survive. I'm ready for more of that sort of tension and I think they might be getting ready to bring it.

Here's a hint of what to expect from Negan:

http://youtu.be/4SDVkdcO8ts

Edited December 1, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Spoilertags

[nachomama]

I noticed Maggie's jeans being too tight, I made a mental note to always dress comfortably in the ZA. For hoisting my flabby butt up on the platform. (maggie's is not flabby)

 

I didn't specifically mean Kneegun meeting Guvna, just the idea that the big bads never take each other out. Or aim for a true threat such as the wolves, who are just crazy and Dave Grohl wolf pretty much spelled it out, they only want to destroy Alexandria because regular human life/normalcy isn't supposed to survive, it isn't personal. Terminus and wolves are like cockroach's they've adapted by way of losing their humanity. I almost expect wolf guy to just blend in with the walkers much like CDB does when smeared with guts, the walkers don't scare him and they can smell the crazy on him.

 

If Father peepee pants can get his head straight and knows that there is no saving some people then Morgan can get with the program too. The fight with Carol is stupid and obviously should take place in a different time but ultimately I keep coming back to Morgan is just wrong. If Carol crosses a line and kills someone who doesn't need it, that's a time to deal with it, but in this moment, keeping that wolf alive was bad news.

[GreyBunny]

Well, that was dumb.  How long has CDB been at Alexandria, two days?  Maybe a week?  They've already gone soft.  Daryl, Sasha, and Abraham should have made mincemeat out of "I talk in the 3rd person because I'm a douchebag" Negan and his merry band of douchelings. 

 

Likewise Tara and Rosita shouldn't have had any problem dropping that Unfair Wolf who was already half dead anyway.  Then clocked Morgan for good measure. 

 

I hope Sam calling for his mother was just in his head, otherwise he needs to be walker chow now.  He can take Ron, who's just an asshole who takes after his father, and Jesse the <VOID> with him.  Won't miss any of them.

 

Hey Glenn, instead of trying to be a surrogate father to some emo eye-rolling kid who doesn't want one, I agree with the person upthread who said to find a truck and lean on the horn.  It led them there, it will lead them away.

 

At least Deanna finally figured out to shoot them in the head. Also Father Pee-Pants' machete had blood on it.  Looks like he's catching on and learning how to defend something.

Edited November 30, 2015 by GreyBunny

[maystone]

So, they need to get to the armory to get guns and ammo to clear out the walkers, sounds good, logical. But in order to accomplish that plan they decide to take along an infant, a traumatized child and mommy dearest. WTF. Wouldn't it make more sense to leave Jessie and the kids barricaded in an upstairs room while the 'fighter' go to the armory? Jessie and the kids would be more than safe with a barred door and a hallway blocked with furniture, walkers would never get to them. An Rick and company would be free to do their thing without having to worry about protecting all the vulnerables. If Rick, Michonne, Carl and Ron & FPP can't get to the armory and clear the ASZ when they are free to act, and then go back to release the people they left behind, how will they be able to accomplish the goal when they are worried about protecting Judith?

 

It's just another case of a dumbass idea driven by the plot need to have Sam freak out and cause things to go to hell. It's getting tiring when the same lazy writing is dragging down what otherwise could be a good show.

 

So how would that work? They'd have to completely barricade the hallway and/or room before they left for the armory, but then how do they get themselves out? No amount of guts-smeared sheeting is going to distract all the walkers from these guys moving furniture around in front of them. Should they descend from the windows using more sheets tied together as rope, because that wouldn't be at all eye-catching for the walkers around the house, right? Honestly, I think that bringing Sam was a bad idea, but outside of knocking him out and stuffing him in a closet while the rest escaped, I don't see that they had much of a choice.

 

Exactly and the noise helped save him in the alley (plus a dumpster, a heaping of implausibility and lack of continuity and/or defying physics). So why he didn't think, "I need to draw them away from Maggie. Sound would work." is baffling. We've seen that Glenn is smarter than that like escaping from the prison.

 

Why would he do that? Right now he has a path into the community; he can see that Maggie is safe for the moment. If he ran back to set off a horn 1) he'd have to find something comparable to that damn ear-shattering air horn on the semi; 2) he'd have to stay there pushing the damn thing long enough to do the job of attracting the walkers back out of ASZ, and no, he couldn't tie a rock or a brick (assuming one was found nearby) because more pressure than that is needed; 3) he'd be cut off from ASZ, and 4) the community still wouldn't be safe because there's that big-ass gaping hole in the wall that isn't getting repaired anytime soon. Plus you're back at square one with the walkers still in the vicinity of ASZ and the quarry.

 

I'm trying to catch up on all the comments, but before I forget I wanted to say that this made me laugh. During the Previously on The Walking Dead, I got irritated all over again with Deanna deciding that that was the right moment to share her plans for Stuptopia, er, I mean Utopia or Alexandria. And then last night when the show kept switching scenes to her talking and talking and scaring babies, I thought I was going to lose it.

 

But it was the right moment for her. Deanna was not someone who succumbed to despair for very long: With all the shit hitting the fan, she concentrated on the future. I get it. Look, she's admitted she's not a fighter or a tactician, so she turned her efforts to planting seeds of hope for the survivors. I loved her conversations with Michonne at the end. Seriously, when else was she going to have that talk with her? And Michonne was more than willing to take the time to listen, because Michonne has been thinking about a future - at last. She's pragmatic enough to face what needs to be done in the moment to survive, but she's moved on to wanting more than minute-to-minute survival. I'm excited to see where her character goes after this.

 

I think that I was so busy being bored by this episode that I didn't notice the number of characters tripping over their own feet. Now that everyone - who was more observant than I - has pointed this out, I ask this question: why do TPTB use this as a device to create suspense? So many poor choices in this episode.

 

Did you read the recap by Omar? He labeled one section The Women's Fall Collection. Ha! But having laughed, I want to point out that Carol lost her footing on all of those bullets Ron had dropped, Deanna (a tiny woman) had a walker fall on her - something not unheard of happening to our crew of veterans btw, and Maggie along with Rick and Tobin were knocked over by the shock wave from the falling building and the heavy iron fence. And just for the record, Tobin was picked up and hauled away by Tara and Rosita. Equal Opportunity Rescue :)