S06.E08: Start To Finish

[Bad Example]

At least I got to laugh my ass off when Carl said "Your dad was an asshole".  

Loved that whole conversation.  

Whiny Ron: "Your dad's going to get people killed."

Carl's face:  "Yep."
Whiny Ron: "Your dad's a killer!"

Carl's face:  "Yep.  Next?"  

[Dodginblue]

I felt kind of bad for Rosita worrying about Abraham, thinking he might be dead. She seems to really care for him but I'm not so sure it goes both ways. And it was kind of funny there in the schoolroom, when they panned to Eugene at one point the way he was sitting there it looked like he had his pants down and I thought is he taking a dump or what?  

 

Seems like Father Gabriel and Rick have reconciled, at least a little bit.   And I guess it's natural that Ron might feel angry about his Dad being killed but Carl had the right comeback to Ron calling Rick a killer.  Ron's Dad was one too and Ron himself is going to get people killed if he doesn't stop with the stupid crap he's pulling.   

 

So I guess Daryl and Sasha and Abraham aren't going to be coming to the rescue now that they've run into the Sons of Anarchy on the road out there.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Dodginblue

[Starchild]

Father Pee Pants

You know, it's your guys' fault that I can't remember his actual name anymore.

[Rosiejuliemom]

Not only did Sam blow their cover, him calling for his mom didn't even sound right to me. He sounded less like he was terrified and more like this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOLxQGLJouI

[ghoulina]

Even if they did it wouldn't have made a difference because the point is that he's traumatized. Sort of like Nicholas and his freak out at the end.

 

Yup. In fact, he was basically doing the exact same zoning in and out thing Nicholas did. Yawn. Find another gimmick.

[Bad Example]

But for all us folks who don't read the comics this Negan introduction is nothing more than a roadblock.

 

YES!  My entire reaction was, "NOT NOW, show.  I'm a little busy with something else right now."

[Rosiejuliemom]

You know, it's your guys' fault that I can't remember his actual name anymore.

 

I can remember his, but it did take me a minute to remember Porchdick's.

[Boofish]

I'm not losing interest. I've actually enjoyed this season thus far (minus Morgan as The Karate Kid episode). I watch this show just like I watch Wheel of Fortune - from my couch I know all the answers. If all the characters were as smart and quick witted as I am the show would be boring. The character flaws and stupidity is what makes it believable to me YMMV

[NorthstarATL]

My problem with the Carol/Morgan showdown was that it was out of character for Carol. She is effective because she is stealthy and subtle. She managed to trick Morgan when he thought she was nodding off, and that was great. But to follow up with a toe to toe and an announcement as to her intentions was in no way going to work for her, and she would have known that. She (and the Wolf) was right in her assessment, but there were more effective ways to pull it off.

   I know that Deanna was "passing the torch" to Michonne, but I couldn't help thinking of the scene in "Airplane" where one stewardess was okay with dying because she was married, as opposed to the "still single" second Attendant when Deanna was going on and on about how happy she was to have worked on Alexandria with her family, while Michonne's was dead. Not cool.

  I now officially enjoy Carl! I never would have seen that coming! "Yoyr Dad was an asshole" indeed.

Looking forward to the return!

[editorgrrl]

There was some dialogue of Carol's where I thought her brains were scrambled a bit because it sounded like she was talking about the sick people she killed at the prison.

Morgan: We can be better than them.

Carol: We are better than them.

Morgan: Not if we kill.

Carol: They made us kill. We had to stop it. I had to stop it.

Morgan: With life, there is possibility.

Also, Denise was wearing a red shirt.

[Morrigan2575]

You know, it's your guys' fault that I can't remember his actual name anymore.

Father Gabriel

I can remember his, but it did take me a minute to remember Porchdick's.

Pete?

Edited November 30, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[CletusMusashi]

OK, I guess I'll sit through the first 15 minutes of Into the Badlands. Well played, AMC.

Not me. I'll sit through pirate governors and ghost loriphones, but at some point a man's got to have standards, damn it.

[Mistletoe]

I would have punted Sam and his bowl cut into the oncoming zombie herd so freaking fast. Stupid kid. Stupid freaking hair.

That was anticlimactic. F U Gimple for forcing a lame cliffhanger on us. The only good scene was Carl owning Ron/Porch Dick Jr./Stoop Dick.

[natyxg]

Yup. In fact, he was basically doing the exact same zoning in and out thing Nicholas did. Yawn. Find another gimmick.

 

I thought this, too.

 

My problem with the Carol/Morgan showdown was that it was out of character for Carol. She is effective because she is stealthy and subtle. She managed to trick Morgan when he thought she was nodding off, and that was great. But to follow up with a toe to toe and an announcement as to her intentions was in no way going to work for her, and she would have known that. She (and the Wolf) was right in her assessment, but there were more effective ways to pull it off.

 

She had a concussion and wasn't at her usual levels of awesomeness.

[ghoulina]

The Carol and Morgan showdown felt weird to me. Also, Carol didn't seem to be in her right mind.

 

Well, as Morgan said, she may have had a concussion. Apparently falling on the sidewalk will do that to you. Yea, the entire showdown felt inauthentic and cheesy to me. With all the shit going down, I think Carol would have been more concerned about trying to help her friends.

[Starchild]

Now another psycho leader. Ugh.

This seems to be Kirkman's raison d'etre. Wash, rinse, repeat for the next 10+ years.

[SnoGirl]

I'm also already over Negan. I haven't read the comics but from here and other places, I get his drift. I want to move on from crazy people like the Governor or Negan and start to see rebuilding of the world. Attempts at technology like the solar panels, trading between communities, and proactive Walker killing. But then again, this show probably won't be around for us to see that because that seems like so far away from now.

Why did the Wolf take Denise? Didn't he see all the Walkers when he walked out the door? She was definitely extra baggage.

If Sam freaks out, how is that going to play out? They are surrounded by Walkers. Even if they run, where on earth would they turn to, it was literally wall to wall Walkers.

[Artsda]

Morgan needs to die, he's so stupid. 

[mmecorday]

At some point are we going to find out that Carol is originally from Krypton? After being struck by a speeding vehicle she just took a little nap and she was just fine. Morgan's body slam was pitiful in comparison.

 

This episode was a let down. Lots of action, but lots of characters taking actions that they shouldn't have taken. Walkers taking over and Carol and Morgan decide to have it out. Rick leaving Judith with an infected person about to turn. Carl and Porchdick Jr. having a rumble in the garage. Are these people secretly snacking on lead paint chips?

 

All this and Supercuts bemoaned the loss of her sculpture.

 

And I always thought "Tiptoe Through the Tulips" was creepy because Tiny Tim sang it. Turns out, its got a creepy factor all on its on. Now to find some brain bleach to get that song the hell out of my head.

[RedheadZombie]

 

Hey, Eugene.  We're trapped in this garage and you know how to pick the lock to the door, but you read a book instead.  My favorite idiot savant has just become a plain idiot

And where did he find that book? Was it shoved down his pants? And the lighter? It was like he was listening to a rock ballad at a concert.

[maystone]

There was some dialogue of Carol's back when she first got hit in the head (before the Wolf scenes) where I thought her brains were scrambled a bit because it sounded like she was talking about the sick people she killed at the prison.  I'll have to listen to that again.

 

I heard that, too. I think her flashback or whatever played into her being so determined to kill the wolf right now. Like immediately. It seemed like she was replaying her reasoning for killing the two at the prison. I'll have to watch it on the midnight run, too.

[natyxg]

Well, as Morgan said, she may have had a concussion. Apparently falling on the sidewalk will do that to you. Yea, the entire showdown felt inauthentic and cheesy to me. With all the shit going down, I think Carol would have been more concerned about trying to help her friends.

 

I was fine with Carol acting like she was because she was concussed. Her eyes were even somewhat glassy, imo. But I thought the way she got hurt was beyond LAME. That's another gimmick they need to stop using, people tripping and falling down. And certainly don't fucking use it with CAROL.

[whyjen8]

With the introduction to Neagan's group I'm confused by how many groups of others there are now.  Unfair wolves are easy by the upside down Ms but the group the trio Daryl hooked up with, were they fleeing from Neagan, from Wolves or from a 3rd group?

 

Morgan is done, no place for him in this show now.  Carl is now one of my favorites.   Up is down, night is day...it's a mad world.

 

The look on the Alexandians faces was priceless when Rick told them they would gut the walkers and use them for camoflauge.

Edited November 30, 2015 by whyjen8

[ghoulina]

I'm not losing interest. I've actually enjoyed this season thus far (minus Morgan as The Karate Kid episode). I watch this show just like I watch Wheel of Fortune - from my couch I know all the answers. If all the characters were as smart and quick witted as I am the show would be boring. The character flaws and stupidity is what makes it believable to me YMMV

 

I can forgive flaws, and mistakes to some degree. But it's almost as if these characters are regressing, to a point where it's just not believable. And the pacing is just awful. 8 episodes in and it's been, what? Two days? Three? It's like they're toying with us, the way they are dragging everything out. 

[lulee]

Prior to this episode, Sam was stressed out from all that had happened, but his trance-like state didn't seem to follow directly from that.  He snapped before he knew there were scores of walkers outside his house.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Really surprised they didn't have the Wolf kill Denise.  Down there, all alone.  Expected him to make his move when she dressed his wound and set him up with the IV.  Thought it was stupid she stayed there with him.  And then her acting all shocked when he took advantage of the situation, like, really!?

 

If Carol wasn't (at least partially) concussed, she would have had something for Morgan there.  Which I think is why she pushed the issue in the first place.

 

Rick always volunteering himself for the most dangerous jobs and missions [ie, running for the armory and then using flares to lead the walkers off] is what makes him a great leader... but at the same time, I think quite a bit of it is motivated by not trusting others with the responsibility.  He doesn't think anyone else could do it - well, maybe Daryl, but he's not exactly around at the moment.

Edited November 30, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[peach]

Carl rules, everyone else drools.  I liked the beginning, and I was seriously concerned Maggie wasn't going to make it onto the platform.  Like they were really going to pull a yay, Glenn's alive, and then kill Maggie.  Then it just devolved into nonsense.  They left bitten Deanna alone in a room with the door open?  With Judith a couple of rooms away?  Then bitten Deanna herself decides to go say hey to Judith while on death's door.  Good move. 

Wtf was up with Morgan leaving Denise locked up alone with the Wolf for that long anyway?  Or at ALL?  Was he ever going to let her out or even talk to her?  I can't even talk about the fight with Carol.  Unbelievable.  Then Denise just sits there and watches the Wolf cut his ties.  Great job, idiot.  Meanwhile Eugene doesnt' bother unlocking the door to the house.  Then they do get in, and two crack headshot marksmen give the Wolf their guns.  And then Mr Wolf doesn't even shoot every single one of them, which he would have done if any character on this show acted like themselves.  Well, Carol did.

 

I do love how Father Gabriel keeps trying to assure Rick he's a stand up guy now, and Rick's generally like, I don't care what you do, okay?  Stop talking to me.

 

Anyway, the walker gut plan could surely have been used to avoid this scenario IN THE FIRST PLACE, but let's forget about it til now.

 

Agree that Jessie seemed to conveniently "forget" about Sam, and now we know why.  Actually, if she'd paid any proper attention to him, or I don't know, brought in A PSYCHIATRIST named DENISE, he might be functional right now.  Ugh.  They've made everyone so fucking stupid I can't stand it.  I guess I will keep watching, but I don't want to.

 

Also, WWWWWTF was that about when they stopped their fuel truck for some jackasses standing next to their motorcycles.   VROOOOOM!  End of problem. 

[candall]

I don't really understand all the kudos for Deanna.  Ineffectual leader, apparently a less than stellar mother.  "I'll just hide in this truck with one of the few able-bodied men as a personal bodyguard."  Needed to be at machete practice, because she was still shooting walkers square in the chest at the top of the episode.  Knowing she's on the verge of walkerhood, she decides to visit the baby.  Questionable choices right up to the very end.

 

At least she finally managed a head shot.  Woot.

 

ETA:  forgot soybeans.

Edited November 30, 2015 by candall

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Not only did Sam blow their cover, him calling for his mom didn't even sound right to me. He sounded less like he was terrified and more like this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOLxQGLJouI

LOL!

That's what came to mind, before I clicked the link.

[Zanne]

I was fine with Carol acting like she was because she was concussed. Her eyes were even somewhat glassy, imo. But I thought the way she got hurt was beyond LAME. That's another gimmick they need to stop using, people tripping and falling down. And certainly don't fucking use it with CAROL.

 

I gave them a pass on that because she slipped on some of the shells Ron was dropping after he took them and was trying to load his gun while following Carl. They needed to take out Carol for a few minutes or she would have taken care of all of the walkers already!

 

I am glad they made Jessie's useless children boys. It's in keeping with The Walking Dead tradition of cowardly males.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I can forgive flaws, and mistakes to some degree. But it's almost as if these characters are regressing, to a point where it's just not believable. And the pacing is just awful. 8 episodes in and it's been, what? Two days? Three? It's like they're toying with us, the way they are dragging everything out. 

 

It had actually only been 24 hours between the start of 6.1 and the end of 6.7 (at least, that what was said on last week's TD).

 

So probably looking at a total of 28-30 hours from Start to Finish, during the whole of 6A.

Edited November 30, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Starchild]

Sam has to die because by the time the show comes back he will he the same height as Kobe Bryant. That Law and Order Special Victims Unit show me where the bad man touched you drawing is not going to mask the fact he is 10 feet tall

They must have had the kid walking on his knees in that last shot to make it look like he was still shorter than his mom.

[BellyLaughter]

I know I'm alone but I am losing interest in this show.

Nope, not alone. Oh look Lucy another power hungry, deranged leader with no interest in humanity about to make other people's lives a living hell....snore.

[BooksRule]

And where did he find that book? Was it shoved down his pants? And the lighter? It was like he was listening to a rock ballad at a concert.

 

I don't know about the lighter, but there were tables, crayons and books on shelves, so I'm guessing that was the 'school'.  (He was reading a world history textbook.)

 

I was distracted by the ants at the very beginning.  Maybe it's because I don't get AMC in HD, but those ants looked so CGI to me (I'm assuming that they--at least the ones on the window/wall--were), but they looked so superimposed.  And fake.  Very distracting.

[Miral9]

This whole season stank so much of the showrunners liking the idea of a zombie horde premiere so much that they decided to do it twice.

 

Its kind of remarkable that they managed to drag their feet so much.  They did waste at least half the episodes in the season so far.

Yeah, it's like they're not writing a story or trying to develop characters as much as they are looking for fake-out opportunities and ways to fill time between fake-out opportunities.

It makes me sad when I think of the final episodes of Season 4 and "A" and the early episodes of Season 5.

It's like it was a different show. This is tedious. It's "Days of our Lives" with zombies.

[HighMaintenance]

Why is it whenever there is some serious survivaling to be done, it seems like CDB gets especially inept - like during this episode?  They suddenly get all clumsy, trip/fall, don't use useful skills they've learned in the past, get in fights over stupid shit during the most inopportune times, etc.  I am happy to see they returned to the classics with the Guts camo.

 

Where the hell is Aaron & Eric?  Spencer? Heath? Tobin (he was helped up by Tara/Carmen Electra)?  Olivia?  Open-toed machete student #2?  Did they go into the storm drain???

 

I refused to watch the 2 minute prologue.  Fuck you AMC, quit trying to make Badlands and "fetch" a thing.  I'll miss my Sunday "date" with the show, but I won't be pining for it.  See ya in February CDB! I'm not particularly looking forward to the Negan storyline.  Just tired of the show cramming one more psycho into the story for the sake of drama.  And recycled drama at that.

[ghoulina]

Prior to this episode, Sam was stressed out from all that had happened, but his trance-like state didn't seem to follow directly from that.  He snapped before he knew there were scores of walkers outside his house.

 

Yes, it did seem like an odd progression. I'll chalk it up to another thing TPTB pulled out of their asses to forward their intended plot. 

[HalcyonDays]

The stupidity of some of the characters really me think back to the earlier seasons of the show, and me yelling at the TV, saying "Why the hell are you doing that!!! Are you fucking stupid!!!"

 

Remember in Here's not Here, Morgan repeatedly screaming to Eastman, to "KILL ME?" Carol needs to grant Morgan's request.

 

Once again, the selfish decision made by a ignorant character causes misery for the whole group. Morgan, letting the Wolf live, now caused Denise's (most likely) death and hurt Carol. Ron, because he's a petulant selfish teen, tried to kill Carl, and allowed the Walkers to enter the house and forcing the occupants to have to leave, risking death in the process. If he wasn't a stupid selfish kid, the house could have held, and they could have survived for a while.

 

Remember Father Gabriel, sneaking out of the Church, in his idiotic freakout, then running BACK to the church, being (undeservedly) rescued by Maggie (because stupid), thus allowed the Walkers to invade the church, risking lives and having the people lose their save haven. This is a repetitive "theme" or "trope" in Walking Dead land.

 

So mad.

[ParadoxLost]

I can forgive flaws, and mistakes to some degree. But it's almost as if these characters are regressing, to a point where it's just not believable. And the pacing is just awful. 8 episodes in and it's been, what? Two days? Three? It's like they're toying with us, the way they are dragging everything out. 

 

It feels like they've found this weird pacing over the last season and a half where they simultaneously are going too fast and nothing is happening.  I don't read the comics but it seems like there are a ton of groups that they are introducing and blowing by really fast and I think they are relying on the comics or easter eggs for depth that I just don't have the background on to get it (and I shouldn't need it).  If the comic readers weren't naming all these groups for us as they appeared, I'd be thinking these are just meaningless filler antagonists rather than anchors of story arcs.

 

I thought they blew by Terminus and Hunters way too fast, but since then we've had the hospital, ASZ, the Wolves, a zombie horde and now this Negan character and his followers.  And everything with character and plot development has been pretty shallow.  And yet they somwhow delved deep into things I don't care about without making me care about them.

Edited November 30, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[Dodginblue]

I don't really understand all the kudos for Deanna.  Ineffectual leader, apparently a less than stellar mother.  "I'll just hide in this truck with one of the few able-bodied men as a personal bodyguard."  Needed to be at machete practice, because she was still shooting walkers square in the chest at the top of the episode.  Knowing she's on the verge of walkerhood, she decides to visit the baby.  Questionable choices right up to the very end.

 

At least she finally managed a head shot.  Woot.

 

ETA:  forgot soybeans.

I think given where we started with Deanna, which was her smugly interviewing the CDBers and pushing her fantasy of the ASZ utopia, she turned out to be a decent person who sadly just didn't get the new reality until it was too late to develop the skills she would need to survive.  

[natyxg]

Where the hell is Aaron & Eric?  Spencer? Heath? Tobin (he was helped up by Tara/Carmen Electra)?  Olivia?  Open-toed machete student #2?  Did they go into the storm drain???

 

I figure they hid in their houses. Tara said something like that, that at least most (all?) people hid. There were so many people so absent that it wouldn't surprise me if in the next episode the focus is on some of them.

 

Don't know about the guy Tara and Rosita helped though. He should have been with them.

Edited November 30, 2015 by natyxg

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I know it was mentioned before, but not putting any gore goop on their faces or hair - Carl still wearing the hat! - doesn't attract walkers' attention?!  AND Judith doesn't get squirmy and make distressed noises being covered like that, as well as being surrounded by the horrible smell of the walker innards??  Uh huh.  *facepalms*

[TexasChic]

During the Fight scene with Morgan, Carol seemed to be regressing back to when she shot those two at the prison.

[paigow]

Ridiculous that Tara will risk her life for Spencer but fail to shoot the wolf for her girlfriend...Take a hint from Jack Traven...Shoot the hostage!

Edited November 30, 2015 by paigow

[RedheadZombie]

Agree that Jessie seemed to conveniently "forget" about Sam, and now we know why.  Actually, if she'd paid any proper attention to him, or I don't know, brought in A PSYCHIATRIST named DENISE, he might be functional right now.  Ugh.  They've made everyone so fucking stupid I can't stand it.  I guess I will keep watching, but I don't want to

Well if he's traumatized by the wolf attack it's been about a day he's been this way. If it was something else it's been about two weeks. I don't really think Jessie's neglecting him. She handled him just right during the wolf attack and he stayed quietly hidden. After seeing Denise's psychiatric skills at work tonight, I wouldn't let her get near my kid. She's a menace.

[ParadoxLost]

I know it was mentioned before, but not putting any gore goop on their faces or hair - Carl still wearing the hat! - doesn't attract walkers' attention?!  AND Judith doesn't get squirmy and make distressed noises being covered like that, as well as being surrounded by the horrible smell of the walker innards??  Uh huh.  *facepalms*

 

What I didn't get was that you'd think that it would have been a dramatic moment between the novices and experts and the physical representation of Rick's whole arc about weeding out which ASZers couldn't adapt and survive. 

 

But no, they clearly have MSP plans that require clean faces and don't have time for showers.

Edited November 30, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[TexasChic]

Oh! Also, did there seem to be a flicker of interest in Rosita's eyes when Tara called her gorgeous?

[Boofish]

Were they trying to show us Morgan warped sense of morality have some validity seeing as that the wolf could have killed them all and he didn't?

Naaaawwww I'm not giving him that much credit

[Macbeth]

What kills me is that it's not BABY FREAKING JUDITH WHO IS PRETTY MUCH THE BEST BABY EVER who won't make a damn PEEP under the GutPoncho but that it's whiny ass Sam who CAN NOT TURN THAT RECORD OFF OR SHUT UP EVER.

 

 

Carol babysits Judith - like a pregnant woman playing mozart for her child in the womb - Carol uses zombie sounds to educate Judith about the world around her/ and as a lullabye.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Macbeth

[Door]

I am just not buying the chemistry between Rick and Jessie. It's forced and contrived to me. Actually, I could say that about most things on this show now. This saddens me. Remember when these characters acted like relatable human beings, wayyyy back when? Those were good times.