S31.E09: Witches Coven

[Jolie]

 

 

Does anyone else hate this new advantage, i.e., the vote stealing twist? Really, I know this is a reality tv game show - but stealing another player's vote just seems like such overt unfairness. It's one thing to have an extra vote, but to essentially render another powerless at the same time regardless of the game they have been playing seems a bit much. I guess the only thing I can do is root for it to fail to work for Fishbach.

 

 

I hate it too. Esp since Fishbach was the one to get it. It was a no-brainer for SF to try for it once Jeff announced it during the challenge since he has zero chance of winning almost all challenges. Spencer, who was his only competition for it, prob hesitated a nano-second before jumping in since he's half-way decent at challenges. The clue was practically Fishy's for the taking.

 

Joe's my fave, but yeah, step up the game play Dude. I've come to the conclusion the the Yogi mindset isn't conducive to playing Survivor.

[marys1000]

I think Stephen wants to win the game of  course.  But he has a whole 'nother reason why he wants to win and so he has a secondary, or maybe even a primary goal and that is to protect his brand.  Isn't being a Survivor blogger, expert, social media someone his full time job?  He has to be desperate to protect that and so he can't be seen in another JT scenario, or missing big opportunities or making stupid moves.  Everyone else who loses goes home to their regular job and life.  Stephen screws up and his is gone.   And so of course changing the game, being the kingpin of evolution, voting blocs etc. is just food for his future as a Survivor expert.  He'll be hawking that forever like they were cheap concert tshirts.   To my mind having fodder for his future as a Survivor guru is even more important than winning.  There is only one winner.  Being able to point to yourself as the person who made a move, evolved the game, got an advantage will be useful forever. 

 

Re challenges all being good for Joe - in early seasons it was apparent that many challenges favored men.  Not so much a problem with mixed team challenges pre merge but after that the challenges need to be more gender neutral otherwise what's the point?

 

Wigglesworth as the boot - She hasn't been a challenge monster that I noticed so that's not it.  Her being well liked didn't win her her first season and that was her argument for winning in her Final TC speech so that's not it either.  I think she was expendable, not a threat.  No one other than maybe Joe was going to have to big a problem with it, now or later, ok.  But yea, why not Keith?

 

My dislike of Kimmi continues to deepen as well as decreasing respect for her as a player.

 

Go Abi.  I did wonder if she threw it at the last second to keep Joe in the game.  She knows he's going to need friends and if you don't feel like you are on the block why not do something that maybe you can use and keep a potential ally around.   I had a similar thought about Spencer but with far less confidence in the possibility.

 

Joe, I feel like in a season of all returnees he has been treated as "the" returnee from the start.  The biggest threat from the start (whether its true or not or everyone is pointing to him to keep fingers from pointing back at them).  Like Parvati in that season where she would have gone home instantlyif she hadn't stuck with Russell.  Once your in that corner its hard to get out of, the only way out of it is to dodge it at the beginning and Jeremy won that round of musical chairs. 

 

Jeremy...two idols....not one vote...his to lose.  I agree, a little boring.  Nothing against Jeremy, I think the only people I don't want to win is Kimmi and Stephen, but if Jeremy lost it would be because exciting stuff actually happened vs. editing creating tension when Jeremy is so likely to win. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by marys1000

[Oscirus]

This challenge actually seemed to favor the women. Kelly was just too slow and Joe has a higher pain thresh hold then Abi but before that, Joe was struggling while Kelly and Abi were statues.

[ljenkins782]

Re challenges all being good for Joe - in earlier seasons it was apparent that many challenges favored men.  Not so much a problem with mixed team challenges pre merge but after that the challenges need to be more gender neutral otherwise what's the point?

 

The problem is that Joe kinda defies the typical gender advantage in challenges. Typically, the smaller women win the balancing challenge (ie, Abi, who did exceptionally well in a challenge for perhaps the first time ever but still lost to Joe in the end.) 

 

If the producers really want to be evil, the next immunity challenge should be the one that Joe lost last season, lol. I really think that would get in his head, plus it would fit perfectly into their "2nd chance to win a challenge you lost last time." I think they might have that one up their sleeve for him at some point.  

 

 

What I thought was unbelievable is that when Probst asked about who was worried about the vote that Jeremy didn't raise his hand (or Kelly or Kimmi for that matter!), it's my view that saying yes is always the right answer unless you have an idol around your neck. To say no makes you look too confident- and if I was Jeremy and I knew they saw me as a threat I would lie and raise my damned hand.

 

I see a few people saying this, but I am fairly sure Jeremy did in fact raise his hand. And as you said, it would be very stupid not to and Jeremy isn't stupid.

 

I just rewatched it and yes, Jeremy did put his hand up. They didn't do a big group shot, but Keith definitely did not have his hand up and it appears that Kimmy and Wiglesworth did not either. 

 

It looks like the editors didn't have a ton of red herrings to work with for this episode, otherwise they probably would have highlighted Wigles' mistake in thinking she was safe. But as it was, if they had focused on that, it would have been 100% obvious that she was going. 

 

I think Jeremy's fine. I'm pretty sure he can easily get Tasha, Kimmi, and Keith back on board with him. I certainly don't see any of them staging a coup to target him in the near future. They certainly should though. It's mindboggling to me that everyone is so blind to Jeremy's power. It'll be even more mind mindboggling after this vote. And yet I feel sure that still no one will target him. Sigh.

 

I wish they would show just a bit more of Jeremy and Tasha's relationship because she's the one most likely to switch up her strategy based on this flip unless her relationship with Jeremy is extremely solid. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

The thing that annoyed me about it is he found the clue in the same type of place he found the first one.  It's a big island - is it asking too much that the producers mix it up a bit?!?  I guess that notion is somewhere on the cutting floor along with an individual immunity challenge that doesn't require great balance.

 

 I submit that the clues for the idols (and therefore the idols) are NOT that easy to find.  The clues are the ones that are hidden, once you have the clue you pretty much (but not 100%) have the idol.  The clues for the idols HAVE to be hidden at landmarks - interesting trees, etc.  I remember Russell finding one under a bridge?  If they're hidden just in a pile of grass or somewhere non-descript they will never be found.  Also, the other players all searched for clues/idols but came up short.  Also, we are not seeing the hours and hours of footage of people searching.  If Joe is so magically good at everything, how has he not found one?  Kelley and Jeremy are the players who are best at finding the clues/idols period.  I wish we saw footage of Kelley trying hard to find another one this episode.  Did she even try?  They just showed her sleeping so it's hard to tell!

Edited November 19, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Jersey Guy 87]

I'm feeling more for Stephen than the likes of Joe and Jeremy. I don't hate Jeremy for hustling for another idol, even if it was easy to obtain once he found the clue. I guess I just like the underdog more, even if he's working with one of the biggest pains in the ass this show has recently cast in Abi-Maria. I hope Stephen can utilize his advantage a lot better than dumbass Dan did in S30.

 

This is a more powerful advantage than Dan got - it includes taking away someone's vote in addition to getting an extra vote.

 

It has though. In Wigglesworth's parting remarks she said that the game has changed too much for her and it's nothing like it used to be. She said the remaining survivors can "have at it."

 

Wigglesworth played in season one - a lot of people weren't really playing the game because they didn't really understand what the game was yet.  There were no hidden immunity idols (and the rules for those have changed over the years as well).  There have been more tribe swaps this season, plus the fact that everybody had the potential to go into the season with alliances already in place.

[RedheadZombie]

Probst - what the heck was with calling out Fishbach when he went down the slide at the RC?!  It's not as if Fishbach was moving slow, or fell, or whatever. I thought that was a total bully move by Probst for no good reason.  

 

 

It probably killed him that Stephen beat Spencer.  Speaking of Spencer, boy was he angry at losing.  It reminded me of how he acted when Kass flipped (ostrich-bobbing head), and when he lost to Tony at the auction.  I don't think he's used to losing.

 

Joe has got to be playing the worst game out there. My damn he is dumb. If he doesn't do something after this vote then there is just no hope for him. Although, lucky for him, apparently every IC is gonna be a endurance/balance type one and he has that shit in the bag so he may very well be able to IC win his way to a victory. Boring.

 

Joe really irritates me, and I can't quite figure out why.  I actually rooted for Abi to beat him in the IC, which shocked me completely.

 

Did they really play that IC in Cagayan? I can't remember at all.

 

Yes, and Woo won.  I think he was wearing those water shoes with individual toes that help grip.

 

Go Abi.  I did wonder if she threw it at the last second to keep Joe in the game.  She knows he's going to need friends and if you don't feel like you are on the block why not do something that maybe you can use and keep a potential ally around.   I had a similar thought about Spencer but with far less confidence in the possibility.

 

I doubt it.  Abi has been very consistent about looking out exclusively for Abi.  Plus, Kelley's mouth had to be blurred to cover what she said when Abi fell.

[ljenkins782]

2) I guess the consensus is that he DID raise his hand in tribal?  I thought he didn't and I didn't find that necessarily stupid.  I think one of two things - Jeremy doesn't bring attention to himself for any reason whatsoever, and/or 2) Jeremy WANTS people to think he has an idol?  But I really don't think 2 so I think 1.   I don't  think it's that stupid if he didn't raise his hand. 

 

He did. 

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Never mind.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[How Bout That]

 

Like Parvati in that season where she would have gone home instantly if she hadn't stuck with Russell.

 

Actually it was Russell who attached himself to Parvati. That's the way he plays. He attaches himself to the prettiest girl there and tries to make it appear as if she's doing his dirty work. 

On his first season, that's what he did and it got him all the way to Final Tribal and I'm sure he thought he had it won. He was sent off to HvV before his season was aired so he probably figured his plan was sound and tried it again.

Parvati was not working with him but didn't mind having his dumb ass give her HIIs. Ultimately, she used one that he didn't know about and that is a pretty good indicator that you're not working with that person.

[kikaha]

Parvati was not working with him but didn't mind having his dumb ass give her HIIs. Ultimately, she used one that he didn't know about and that is a pretty good indicator that you're not working with that person.

If so, that means Kelley is not working with Ciera or Abi. 

[tpplay]

 

Yea, Ciera made the comment that Jeremy would win at final tribal.  It would have been great to see him blindsided here with the two idols.  I don't see how he doesn't win this game now.

 

I love him.  I hope he wins.

[preeya]

Not sure I understood Fish's advantage. Can someone explain it.

[slowpoked]

From Fishbach's People blog:

 

 

Savage's elimination galvanized the majority alliance of eight. Everybody was talking about how vital it was that we stick together and eliminate the three "witches," who "didn't deserve to be there." Then the eight of us could play the game for real.

He said those in quotes, so I'm assuming it's verbatim from someone. Is it Kimmi who also said "didn't deserve to be there"? If so, my existing dislike for her just grew threefold.

 

How do you "deserve" to be in Survivor? And who is the judge of that? Because the three women wanted to survive one more TC, they suddenly didn't deserve to be there? I venture, they actually deserve more to be there, since they're showing that they want to stay.

[green]

Not sure I understood Fish's advantage. Can someone explain it.

 

If he wants to use it at a tribal council the following happens:

 

1.  At tribal council as soon as Probst says "It's time to vote" he must immediately indicate he wishes to use his "advantage" before the voting actually starts.

 

2.  He then declares a player by name.  That player can NOT now vote at that TC.

 

3. Stephen then gets his usual vote plus an extra vote replacing the one the player he blocked from voting would have had.

Edited November 19, 2015 by green

[Skeeter22]

How do you "deserve" to be in Survivor? And who is the judge of that? Because the three women wanted to survive one more TC, they suddenly didn't deserve to be there? I venture, they actually deserve more to be there, since they're showing that they want to stay.

It's also a little rich to say someone doesn't deserve to be there when we're talking about people who campaigned and were voted in by the fans.

[Bryce Lynch]

This challenge actually seemed to favor the women. Kelly was just too slow and Joe has a higher pain thresh hold then Abi but before that, Joe was struggling while Kelly and Abi were statues.

I agree balance challenges usually favor the women or are gender neutral at worst. Joe just has extraordinary balance and endurance. He seemed to be struggling almost from the start but kept recovering and holding on.

[Special K]

It's also a little rich to say someone doesn't deserve to be there when we're talking about people who campaigned and were voted in by the fans.

 

One of the most fascinating and often detestable parts of Survivor is how players ascribe all kinds of morality and worth to it.  Because it almost always hews in the direction of that person's own strengths.  Someone who is physically strong and survival-oriented thinks that a "weakling" doesn't deserve to be there (Savage).  Someone who is strategic is offended by others who seem to playing only for the adventure or the challenges (Ciera).  Every season, people are considered "unworthy" if they are deemed lazy, even if they are conserving their strength for challenges.

 

Survivor is not like a foot race where you have to qualify first!  It's not the Olympics.  There's no measurable, quantitative qualification for being there.  And especially in this case, the only "deserving" that can be cited, as you say, is that we, the audience, voted these people in.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Special K

[needschocolate]

It would be nice to see the schoolyard picks.  I believe Jeff said that Kelly Wigglesorth picked name, name, name,... and that someone else (one of the guys) picked name, name, name... I suppose this means that to people were chosen as captains and they picked the teams, instead of someone picks a person and that person picks the next person, and so on.  

 

When I saw that Abi was not picked I thought we were in for an Abi tirade, with her getting way to emotional because no one picked her.  But, if there was one, we weren't shown it.  Now, I am thinking the reason why Wigglesworth was the target was because Abi was mad at her for not picking Abi.  

 

I can't believe I am about to say this, but I was rooting hard for Abi to win that IC.

 

I wasn't.  I figured that if Abi won, Joe would be voted off and I would rather have TC be less predictable.  

 

ETA: Wait, so the big evolution in the game is just people teaming up with those on the bottom?  Really?  Those girls had nothing to lose, they would have gone with anyone.  If that's all it is, I consider that a fail.

 

I wouldn't call it an evolution, but I think there has been one big change this season - they aren't automatically targeting the challenge threats after the merge.  Old School was keep the athletic ones until the merge and then get rid of them as soon as you can so they don't go on an immunity run.  Perhaps they would all put alliances aside and vote off Joe if he ever loses immunity, but we don't know that for sure.  And they certainly aren't targeting the other challenge threats.  

 

Savage might be called a challenge threat, but I believe he was chosen last week not for his possible physical capabilities, but because Ciera doesn't like him (and because he was the perceived  head of the big alliance).  

 

THIS. This game move for me was a case of blowing up an alliance just for the sake of it. The only purpose it served was to feed Stephen's paranoia and ego. It would be interesting to see how Jeremy can come back from this. I think he's lucky he has two idols.

 

My sense is that Jeremy made the wrong choice in booting Kelly.  Things were lined up nicely for him.  Stick to plan, keep your numbers, boot Kelley, Ciera and Abi.  Seems like a good path to FTC, especially with two idols in his pocket.  I really would like to hear more why he turned his back on that, and sided with three people who will slit his throat in a New York second. 

 

At first I thought it was ridiculous to go against the big alliance - get rid of the three women first, then you make an alliance of 5 out of the remaining 8 and you are still in it.  But maybe Jeremy, Spencer and Stephen weren't confident that they could get two more to join with them once the "witches" were gone.  They either had to flip now, when it would be 6 to 5 or wait until the three were gone and hope they could get 2 more to join them.  

 

Savage's beanie, Dan's beret, anything tie-dyed belonging to Rupert, Russell's fedora, Kass's middle finger - all should be destroyed.

 

And Phillip's droopy pink underwear

Edited November 19, 2015 by needschocolate

[How Bout That]

 

1.  At tribal council as soon as Probst says "It's time to vote" he must immediately indicate he wishes to use his "advantage" before the voting actually starts.

 

That's not really much of an advantage because most people have a back up vote just in case. Like in the old days when you had to announce you were going to use a HII before the vote. If Wentworth had announced she was going to use an HII before the vote last week, it would have been a yawn fest. That's why they changed the rules for HII.

If Stephen were allowed to use his advantage after votes were cast, then it would really be an advantage. I'm thinking that the producers plan on this "advantage" as being more of an albatross than something that will actually help the player who gets it.

[ferretrick]

That was awful. I hate the "witch" reference, in general, but I was like, "What in the fresh hell is a coh-ven??"

 

 

I blame the accents on American Horror Story Season 3.

[Bryce Lynch]

From what I could read on the 'paused' parchment I got the rules slightly differently:

So it depends slightly on where he's seated during tribal whether he has to reveal he's using the advantage before anyone has voted or can wait until a few people have voted and it's his turn.

His order in the voting could be critical. If he announces he is stealing a vote early on, it is possible the remaining voters could possibly vote for him.

It will be interesting to see if any idols get played after he steals a vote.

I still can't believe the tribe didn't immediately vote him out. It is foolish to leave someone in the game with an unknown advantage.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Cry Havoc, And Let Slip The Dogs Of Survivor
Survivor brings drama of nigh-Shakespearean proportions this week as a new voting bloc forms to upend the status quo.

[ljenkins782]

His order in the voting could be critical. If he announces he is stealing a vote early on, it is possible the remaining voters could possibly vote for him.

It will be interesting to see if any idols get played after he steals a vote.

I still can't believe the tribe didn't immediately vote him out. It is foolish to leave someone in the game with an unknown advantage.

 

I wonder if the fact that it was unknown is the reason they would have been afraid to vote for him? It could have turned out to be a Tyler Perry idol that could bounce back and get one of them.

 

I'm interested to see how the vote stealing pans out. It could wind up being the grand finale to the  dodo edit Stephen's been getting all season if he biffs the advantage.  

[Nashville]

Joe is apparently never going to go home. I like Joe, but does anyone feel like we've had an overabundance of balance challenges??

  

I don't see why anyone would think such competitions favor Joe - or why anyone would think Production would think that, for that matter. Center-of-balance for most men is roughly focused in their chest, for most women in/around their hips. General physiology indicates any on-your-feet balancing comps will by default favor females over males due to their lower center of gravity - as Abi so gracefully demonstrated.

IMHO this time around, Joe won immunity not out of overwhelming ability or physicality, but out of pure stubbornness.

I think that has a lot to do with it. Kimmi hasn't really performed great at challenges. If it's Jeremy and Kimmi, people are going to want to take out Jeremy. Spencer already has been a target, and he continues to do well at challenges. It makes sense for Jeremy to want to keep him close. When you're not great at the physical aspects, you want to take out those who are. When you, yourself, are a big threat, you want the other threats to stay. 

...which is why I expect to see Jeremy start becoming bestest buds with Joe any day now....

The Jury members looked relatively dry, though, no? Bastards. I'd much rather see Savage and Kass getting soaked. 

 

 

Nah, the Jury was getting awash as well. Immediately after Kass sat down on the Jury bench, she actually reached out as if to embrace the rain.

Which, I guess, is easy to enjoy as one of life's little pleasures.

When it's temporary, that is.

For you, anyway.

 

Can we add some type of mean, biting fish at their feet?

 

Ill-tempered sea bass, maybe?

Or were you wanting to go all-out sharks-with-frikkin-laser-beams on them?

[Nashville]

Two other random bits of debris in my brain:

• I wonder how much of Abi's IC effort was compensating for being no one's pick in the RC?
• Speaking of Abi being no one's pick in the RC: upon returning to camp from the RC - and after - how much grief do you think she was giving everybody in camp about THAT??? Because you know of all people, Abi isn't going to let THAT little snub go gentle into that good night....

[Rick Kitchen]

 

Speaking of Spencer, boy was he angry at losing.  It reminded me of how he acted when Kass flipped (ostrich-bobbing head), and when he lost to Tony at the auction.  I don't think he's used to losing.

 

I didn't see that at all.  I did see him congratulating Stephen.

[ghoulina]

I don't see why anyone would think such competitions favor Joe - or why anyone would think Production would think that, for that matter. Center-of-balance for most men is roughly focused in their chest, for most women in/around their hips. General physiology indicates any on-your-feet balancing comps will by default favor females over males due to their lower center of gravity - as Abi so gracefully demonstrated.

 

Oh, I definitely think these type of challenges generally favor women, or smaller people in general. However, Joe has definitely demonstrated that he is great at balancing challenges. The ball one, last week, didn't really rely on a smaller frame. Hell, Joe is probably good at every kind of challenge; I'd just rather see something else. It just seems like the last three challenges were very very similar. 

[mojoween]

I liked Stephen his first time around even if I liked JT more, I like Stephen on Twitter and I was really hoping to like him this time. But my husband is catching up on his DVR'd shows, and after this weeks "Scorpion" there was an ad for Survivor and Stephen was in it and he basically said "I don't care what it is, I just want to make a move."

And that's my issue with him this time. He is SO HUNG UP on JT, and doesn't want that to happen again, that he's living week to week and not considering what is good for him in the long run. Making a move just to make a move is a terrible game plan. It seems like he's so concerned about what people think about him that he's just not playing smart.

[Knuckles]

I'm assuming that Kimmi will stick with Jeremy til she is voted out...as will Keith. And Jeremy has 2 idols and Stephen a known advantage, though it's utility is unknown to the rest. 

And Abi, Ciera and Kelley stick together. 

That leaves Joe, Tasha and Spencer.

Wonder if Stephen has made obvious to the group or to Joe his desire to boot Joe? 

Tasha might be up grabs, as she is an also-ran in the Jeremy-Stephen bromance, and Joe needs the three women to protect himself. Spencer might be smart to go buds with Joe as well, at least for a while.

If Joe wins the next IC, I'm guessing Tasha or Kimmi might be next on the chopping block. Or maybe just Tasha, she has looked pretty gob-smacked in the last two Tribal Councils.

[Alapaki]

I don't think that voting order will make much difference for Stephen. If he isn't one of the "back-up targets", with the element of surprise the others may not be able to mind-meld a majority consensus against him.

Also, this advantage really gives him the power to effect a 3-vote swing, because he gets two votesto use himself, AND he wipes out a vote that presumably was going in the opposite direction.

The REALLY intriguing thing about the description is that his stolen vote cannot be stolen itself. That suggests that there are other such advantages to come.

[Nashville]

It just seems like the last three challenges were very very similar.

Oh, I definitely agree with you on that. I don't think it has anything to do with Joe, though.

In fact, I've been wondering...

- and I'm not even sure where this is coming from -

but I'm getting a kind of vibe TPTB may be dumbing down the comps in a physical sense, and I'm wondering if it may be to accommodate some kind of disability or infirmity on the part of a player. Sort of a Survivor version of ADA, for lack of a better term.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Nashville

[yamashinaryu]

I thought Joe has no strategy at all. He relies too much on winning the immunity challenges.

[Jolie]

I thought Joe has no strategy at all. He relies too much on winning the immunity challenges.

You gotta use what works for you. As we've seen in season's past, the only thing required is that you outlast everyone else. You don't necessarily need to outwit them.  Joe has a great physical game, but doesn't seem to use much strategy that we've shown at least. In contrast, Stephen is trying to use his wits over his lack of physical skills. We'll see how it works out for both of them. In a perfect Survivor world, players (esp the winners) would be good at the physical, social, and intellectual aspect of the game.

[peachmangosteen]

I wish they would show just a bit more of Jeremy and Tasha's relationship because she's the one most likely to switch up her strategy based on this flip unless her relationship with Jeremy is extremely solid. 

 

This. I feel like there's been a consensus that Tasha and Jeremy were really close, and I was buying into it, but I'm not so sure anymore. I believe Tasha may have believed she was very close to Jeremy though, since she was quick to take the focus off him and put it on someone else when Ciera brought his name up as a threat. But Jeremy voted against Tasha and didn't even let her know about it, so I would say he doesn't see her as one of his closet allies. I'm very interested to see how Tasha reacts to that.

 

 

I'm very surprised to see Spencer didn't raise his hand. The others, not surprised at all.

[truthaboutluv]

I'm pretty sure Spencer raised his hand. This picture might be before everyone put their hand down because I remember Jeff even addressing Spencer after about basically admitting that he, along with the others who raised their hand, think it could be them.

[FineWashables]

I really don't think that this was the week to get rid of Kelly Wigglesworth.  Even if she did, in fact, have a bond with everyone there -- which we've never seen, so I'm not 100% sure that this is more than Fish paranoia -- it's impossible to imagine that she'd be a shoo-in for the win, and I say this because she hasn't made any moves or even played aggressively enough for the jury to think she's outwitted and outplayed.

 

 

I would be happy with any number of survivors winning, but I would be extra happy if Stephen was vote out before he could deploy his super special advantage...shouldn't that put a major target on his back??

Isn't' it weird that we never heard a single person ask him what the advantage was?  The players have watched Survivor before, they know that the last advantage given out was solid, so why no curiosity about what he won?

 

And I have to jump on the bandwagon of how tragically wannabe it is for anyone -- but especially someone over 20 -- to wear a woolen hat in the tropics.  Idiot. 

[ShadowSixx]

What's going to bite Joe in the end is that he has no gameplay. He might always want to think what happens if he loses an IC. He's had no gameplay, he's not leading an alliance, he's coasting in the middle of alliances or at the bottom since everyone sees him as a big threat. I mean if he made it to the end on F3 what would his argument be, that he won IC, yeah he would have outplayed but what about outwit and outlast. IDK if it'll be too late for him at this point to try and tack on the social game. 

 

Fishbach can exit stage left, he's such an annoying ass. Now Abi basically took a backseat to being annoying and since Savage and Kass are sitting their asses on the jury, Fishbach wants to pick up the annoying pieces. Oh Spencer why did you hesitate to jump in the water, dammit. If these people are smart they would see that Fishbach is trying to manipulate the game with all his bitching and whining and eliminate him pronto. 

 

Wiggelsworth being a threat. I didn't see it at all, so what if she was on the 1st season of Survivor and well liked by everyone, that doesn't mean anything when it comes to actually voting on who wins and played the game. You can be likable all you want but if you really haven't done anything you're not a threat. How many challenges and IC has she won?...............Yeah, I can't remember either. Wiggelsworth had no gameplay either and if she did editors would have shown it.

 

Kass and her damn middle finger, keep it classy. Is she trying to be funny? Is that the only way she can create "chaos" is by giving the finger? Someone should tell her to stick it up her hoo haw and it might make her smile more. 

 

So for now my order of rootable are: Spencer, Kelly W., Jeremy, Joe, Keith, Tasha, Ciara, Abi, Fishbach

Edited November 20, 2015 by ShadowSixx

[violet and green]

I understand the show puts out these titles - but honestly I am a lot more bothered by the lack of apostrophe than I am by, say, Andrew's snood.

[preeya]

So Fishbach has an advantage and he was the one who introduced the term "voting blocs." In my mind I'm wondering why there wasn't a majority "voting bloc" to eliminate Fishbach and rid the game of the advantage. Second thoughts are telling myself the producers want the advantage in play for the drama. Any thoughts?

[needschocolate]

Oh, I definitely agree with you on that. I don't think it has anything to do with Joe, though.

In fact, I've been wondering...

- and I'm not even sure where this is coming from -

but I'm getting a kind of vibe TPTB may be dumbing down the comps in a physical sense, and I'm wondering if it may be to accommodate some kind of disability or infirmity on the part of a player. Sort of a Survivor version of ADA, for lack of a better term.

 

I think they have tried to change things to make it so no one person wins almost every immunity, because, as many have commented this season with Joe's immunity running, it is boring TV.  It used to be that most every challenge favored those who were strong or could swim like a dolphin. Then, they added puzzles into the mix. But puzzles aren't the most exciting TV either.   The past few seasons there have been a lot of challenges that most any age or body type could do well at, like throwing things at a target, but people complained that they were tired of watching them throw things at a target.  Apparently, now, they are going for the balance/endurance challenges.

 

Plus, this season they are also working the second chance angle and seem to be trying to have challenges that someone failed at before.   

[wallflower75]

Also, we are not seeing the hours and hours of footage of people searching.  If Joe is so magically good at everything, how has he not found one?  Kelley and Jeremy are the players who are best at finding the clues/idols period.  I wish we saw footage of Kelley trying hard to find another one this episode.  Did she even try?  They just showed her sleeping so it's hard to tell!

 

That's what I wondered while watching this episode.  We saw footage of everyone looking for the idol except the three who arguably needed it the most.  What was up with that?  You're trying to tell me that Kelley didn't look for another one?  Especially since she, like Jeremy, had the advantage of having a better idea of where a clue might be??

 

I'm over Fishbach.  He's screwing up his second chance because he can't get over what he did wrong his first time around.  As for Kimmi, I voted for her to come back out of nostalgia for old school Survivors, but watching her recently is bringing back memories of not liking her too much her first time, either.

 

I'm giving some thought to trying a Survivor binge watch/rewatch sometime soon.  (I think there are ten seasons I haven't seen in their entirety.)  I'm very hesitant to do so, though.  I tried this with Top Chef only to have the Mean Girls season do me in.  There are a lot of landmines in the Survivor canon.

[Ms Blue Jay]

wallflower, you should come and read the Past Seasons thread, we recommend our favourite seasons like crazy!

[nutty1]

That is what they said about the advantage, but without the advantage, that person *would have* voted, meaning that the advantage (if used right) creates a two-vote shift from what the vote would have been, and because Stephen would have his original non-advantage vote, plus that two-vote shift, he ends up responsible for a difference of three total votes.

Maybe I'm not explaining it well, but it seems like it's a pretty big advantage. If he wants to shake things up, he could possibly do it single-handedly. In any close vote, especially as the total numbers dwindle, he can stick with the majority and not use the advantage, or go to the minority and use it, changing who goes. Ive officially thought too much about this.

 

I still think it is a difference of 2 votes. Say Stephen is voting for Joe. That doesn't change either way.

He then chooses Spencer. So Spencer's vote for Abi won't count. So Abi gets one less, but Joe will get one more vote. 

[princelina]

I understand the show puts out these titles - but honestly I am a lot more bothered by the lack of apostrophe than I am by, say, Andrew's snood.

As an English teacher I would like to agree with you - but that damn hat!  Why was that in his bag to go to Cambodia at all?  Just pisses me off. (Irrationally, I know :)

[ratgirlagogo]

I'm more bugged by the Shakespeare gaffe than anything else.  Unforgivable (and NOT just because I played Lady MacBeth in eighth grade drama class - of COURSE it wasn't typecasting!!! why would you say that!!??!!)

[millennium]

Well this season took a sharp and unfortunate detour into Tony Country now that Jeremy has two idols.   Oh my goodness.  Can they make them any easier to find, do you think?   Maybe a neon arrow pointing to the tree roots?

 

The best part of the episode was the recap of Savage's ouster.

[KimberStormer]

OK so--

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around things.  Specifically Jeremy going along with this.  There's a lot of mysteries in the episode, that one is still unsolved to my satisfaction.  A lot of Stephen's behavior I have invented a tentative narrative for, to wit:  Why did Stephen target Wigelsworth?  Because, perhaps, the "witches" suggested it, and Stephen, desperate to make a move, any move, went with what they said.  Why would the girls at the bottom suggest it?  Because, perhaps, Tasha had suggested it first.  Ciera named the right name--Jeremy--but Tasha suggested Wigelsworth, and Ciera of course is going to go with whatever plan is not her, Wentworth, or Abi going (and probably, when you come down to it, any plan that is not she herself going.)  Since Tasha had mentioned Wigelsworth already, perhaps she thought it would go over OK with Stephen when he came looking for a move to make.  Why would Tasha suggest it?  It seems like she suggested it to change the subject from Jeremy.  (So in a weird roundabout way, Tasha trying to help Jeremy might have led to him blindsiding her...?)  Why did Stephen claim he, Spencer, and Jeremy of all people are on the bottom?  Because he was trying to convince them to make a move.  In what might have been another "take that" to Stephen by the editors, they included him saying "it's not heirarchical" in the previously, and also him talking about the heirarchy of the alliance, using that very term.  Now I can't imagine Stephen really thinks Jeremy is on the bottom, nor that he thinks Jeremy thinks so.  But I can imagine him saying that to bring in Spencer, who otherwise might be suspicious of such a bananas move that seems like a pretty good deal for him, I guess.  Honestly though all of that is really difficult to come to grips with.  I can see Spencer as a natural player to look at for an ally, for Stephen, since Spencer was--or so it seemed--actually on the bottom, and Stephen was all about getting the people on the bottom to help him flip the game right now.

 

But why would Jeremy go along with this?  How does it help him?  What's been so impressive about Jeremy's game so far is in fact his ability to say no, without making anyone upset or suspicious, even though it benefitted Jeremy more than others.  He did a marvelous job of that with Savage last episode; a few quiet words and Savage is reluctantly (so he claimed in a talking head) going along with it because he's realized it really is the best choice.  He's even done it with Stephen already!  But now he goes along with Stephen's plan, which I don't see any benefit to, for Jeremy.  Status quo was good for Jeremy.  But then I don't really see any benefit to anybody; this thing about Wigelsworth being a big threat, if true, represents a big failure in the editing.  (I'd rather believe the telephone-game narrative above.) 

 

Anyway, I love Jeremy as a person, as an object to ogle, and as a player this season--he is mostly following my mantra of "What would Kim Spradlin do?" very well.  Maybe this move will be like voting out Kat was for Kim--a way to make other people think they are more powerful than they are (Alicia in Kim's case, Stephen in Jeremy's), and won't harm him.  Maybe.  But Kim didn't blindside the rest of her alliance to do it; every single person voted for Kat, so it didn't hurt Kim.  I guess we'll see if it hurts Jeremy. 

 

I must say that despite my fondness for Jeremy, him getting another idol is very boring, as is Joe winning immunity.  And really, so is voting out Wigelsworth.  She was boring.  Her blindside was also boring.  The way the editors have it in for Stephen this season, I'd almost believe they edited her so invisibly not because she was boring or disappointing to Probst, but just to make his BIG MOVE a monumental anti-climax....

 

 

What didn't surprise me but annoyed me: more complaints from Ciera about finally 'playing the game.'  This chick is delusional.  Every episode we've seen some fantastic play.  She is still in the game, despite her monumental screwups, because of the phenomenal play from other contestants. 

 

Ciera could have been maneuvering from the shadows these past several weeks.  As we've seen over and over, cracks keep opening up, that savvy players can explot.  Instead she decided to make her 'big move' way too soon, and has been minimalized as a result. 

 

Oh God are we doing this again this week?  Someone take over for me, I'm exhausted.

Edited November 20, 2015 by KimberStormer

[himela]

I think that whatever good this season has shown is due to the constant new elements thrown in there (two tribes to three, immunity idols in challenges, three tribes to two, merge with 13 people, steal vote thing). I am now that wowed with the way most players have played so far and it doesn't justify their fame and second chance story. If it was any other season with new people I would not find it good enough. I said last episode that if the season were to finish like this (with last episode) I'd be satisfied with it. But it seems predictability and nonsense will become a big part of this season from now on.

[Oscirus]

For people with better things to do here's the highlights of Kelly's interviews around the web:

 

Joe was in fact playing the game and had a four man alliance of him, Kelly, Keith and Stephen (lol) because nobody would see it coming that he was aligned with Stephen.

Stephen annoyed the shit out of Kelly making sure he was good with her the day before the vote.

Kelly and Tasha both knew that Jeremy was going to jump from the shifty way he was acting and tried to get to Kimmi so they could all switch their votes to wentworth but they couldn't get to her in time so they chose to stick to the plan.

Abi apparently hated Kelly for working too hard.

Ciera tried to approach her about working with her at the merge but she didn't trust Ciera since Ciera lied to her about Woo.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Oscirus