S02.E06: Rhinoceros

[Eyes High]

I wonder if Wilson will either get overlooked entirely, or just not win after he is nominated. Lou is so steady, so calm, no hysterical moments, no chance to chew scenery. Acting like that often get overlooked in favor of flashier acting. We're getting great acting on all levels, everyone is firing on all cylinders. It seemed obvious to me that Bokeem Woodbine would get nominated, but now I'm thinking Jeffrey Donovan as well. I could only hope Danson prevails and gets his third Emmy. I can't believe he only has two.

 

I wish the Emmys had a Best Ensemble the way other awards (the SAGs) do. There's so much excellent work here. It's remarkable that even the relatively minor roles get pitch-perfect performances. I don't know that there's a weak link in the cast. Even the relatively inexperienced actors--Emily Haine and Allan Dobrescu--are knocking it out of the park, in my opinion. 

 

Is it wrong that I laughed when Dodd was being electrocuted by Peggy?

 

If it's wrong, I don't want to be right. The best part for me was Dodd's inflection on "Bitch???" as if it's blowing his mind that a girl got the best of him.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Eyes High

[magenta]

According to wiki the massacre at St Sioux Falls Took place in 1973 or if you want to go really far back in 1862

according to the show right at the beginning it says this all took place in 1979

[GodsBeloved]

 

Is it wrong that I laughed when Dodd was being electrocuted by Peggy?   

Not at all. I wanted her to taser his weeny!!

[Thadeeeyus]

I was on the edge of my seat throughout this entire episode Loved it!  I continue to be amazed by the individual performances. They seem to get better every week.  Also loved the Whiplash-like percussion.  There is no show I look forward to watching as much as this one.  It's going to be a sad day when it's over. 

[cpcathy]

Exactly! The anticipation waiting for each episode is part of the fun. If this show were on Netflix I don't know if I would like it as much. Too much all at once.
 

[A Boston Gal]

Forgot to add how much I loved the use of the split screens to tell the story. So freaking creative and evocative of the seventies at the same time, which is no small feat.

[Inquisitionist]

According to wiki the massacre at St Sioux Falls Took place in 1973 or if you want to go really far back in 1862

according to the show right at the beginning it says this all took place in 1979

 

Are you referring to this?  The show Fargo is not depicting real life events, no matter how many times its opening credits claim otherwise.  ;-)

[magenta]

I know the show is not real but a lot of times they refer to real things that happened

[SoothingDave]

Forgot to add how much I loved the use of the split screens to tell the story. So freaking creative and evocative of the seventies at the same time, which is no small feat.

 

They had the audio split to either side during that phone conversation split screen as well.  Like 1970s records playing with the "new" stereo effect.

[ToastnBacon]

I think it depended on where you were. I didn't find it unusual at all to see this in 1979.

I'm sure you are right in that the pull tabs were probably still around to some extent in 1979, especially on regionally marketed beer cans.

Over all, I'm pretty confident that they started disappearing from nationally marketed brands in the middle of the decade.

Not that I was criticizing the show for getting something wrong with the feel of 1979, I was primarily responding to Lonesome Rhodes's comment about pull tabs not being banned.

I think the creators have some artistic license when it comes to recreating the year 1979. I don't have a problem with them melding elements of the the entire decade into one year. It is fun and just a TV show.

Those leisure suits and pimp coats that the Kitchen Brothers wear, and some of Simone's clothes were really something you would have seen earlier in the decade. At least on the East Coast that stuff was out of style in 1979.

Edited November 18, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[shapeshifter]

Did I understand Ed and Carl's interaction correctly?  It seemed to me that Ed indicated that he was not guilty.

Carl's instructions were so convoluted that I'm not sure Ed even knew what he was indicating.

--which was both the point and the meta point of the scene. It was just perfect in length IMO.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Sorry for any confusion.  The one thing I meant to praise the ep for and I was unclear.  Pop tops were definitely still used in 1979.  Further question - was that regional beer still in steel, not aluminum, cans?  That would be another fine touch.  I think it took Hamms longer to convert, but the beer in that scene was not Hamms.

 

Better Call Karl?

[ToastnBacon]

Sorry for any confusion.  The one thing I meant to praise the ep for and I was unclear.  Pop tops were definitely still used in 1979.  Further question - was that regional beer still in steel, not aluminum, cans?  That would be another fine touch.  I think it took Hamms longer to convert, but the beer in that scene was not Hamms.

 

Better Call Karl?

Damn!

Now I want to know what kind of beer it was.

I didn't recognize it. I just looked at a bunch of photos of 1970s beer cans, but didn't see anything I thought was it.

It was a gold and red can, right?

[Lonesome Rhodes]

It sure seemed to me to be the gold and maroon of the University of Minnesota.

[Milburn Stone]

I have to admit that I have trouble seeing a purpose to my existence on most days.

That Camus book that Noreen was reading does fit my viewpoint on much of modern life.

Here I am surlping coffee and typing a bunch of drivel on a Sunday morning.

For what?

To amuse another human enough so they click the like button on my post?

The satisfaction of seeing that a total stranger likes what I wrote enough to like it or reply is a brief distraction from my boring and pointless existence.

I've already procreated and my offspring are on their own.

Since I am a mammal, I guess I could go procreate a few more times.

However, I think I'll act like a salmon and hang around the backwater eddy of the internet until I expire.

Either way, it is pointless and absurd. I guess my efforts to keep insanity and suicidal thoughts at bay will have to suffice.

Have a nice day!

 

Best. Post. Ever.

[Johnny Dollar]

This episode shows that Peggy don't need no stinking self-help seminar. If she got any more self-actualized, she'd turn into Aileen Wuornos.

[pasdetrois]

 

I was hesitant to watch this season because I thought the first season was probably the most overrated show I've seen in recent history. It wasn't until episode 6 when I really started to sour on it.

This has been my experience as well. I didn't watch the first season after three episodes, but I love the current season.

 

I'm still trying to identify the veterans hall with the big bombers on the mural. While poking around the Internet I was reminded that Luverne was featured in Ken Burns' The War.

 

Jessie Plemons has had such an interesting career - from the goofy hapless teenager in Friday Night Lights to playing so many weirdos and enigmas. It really works because he has the physical appearance of a predictable regular guy.

[jnymph]

 

Jessie Plemons has had such an interesting career - from the goofy hapless teenager in Friday Night Lights to playing so many weirdos and enigmas. It really works because he has the physical appearance of a predictable regular guy.

From Landry (FNL) to Todd (BrBa) to Ed.   Plemons has done an incredible job of selling all 3 very different characters.  He is FAST becoming one of my favorite actors.  

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

 

From Landry (FNL) to Todd (BrBa) to Ed.   Plemons has done an incredible job of selling all 3 very different characters.  He is FAST becoming one of my favorite actors.

It's really strange because he is able to change his physical countenance from role to role (I'm not talking about his weight either) - his body language is totally different. In this role he's this frumpy middle-age-in-training married guy. So different from Todd (BrBa RIP). I saw him in a movie a while back when he was about 12-13. He was able to do it then (had a southern accent). 

[polyhymnia]

If I had been told about this episode, I would have probably assumed that both Mike's recitation of Lewis Carroll and Karl's over-the-top defense attorney wouldn't work, but I thought that they translated well.  I really loved this episode.

 

(Also, I am a state's attorney and I loved the tool of the state line and also the non-reaction reaction of law enforcement)

[knaankos]

I think you guys saying that Lorne Malvo is this "Undertaker" are on to something. I don't think they would have randomly added that Malvo's dental practice was in Kansas City just for coincidence sake. Maybe Malvo is from KC and his career as a killer started with the KC mafia. Only thing is he was max 50 years old in season 1, so he would be around 20-24 for season 2. That's quite young to already have such the reputation as "The Undertaker".

 

 

also when are we going to see the KC Mafia Boss we saw briefly in episode 1 again? We need another face and character to associate with the KC side. Right now all we have is Milligan and one of the kitchen brothers which pales in comparison to the characters we know from the other side.

[SoothingDave]

Sorry for any confusion.  The one thing I meant to praise the ep for and I was unclear.  Pop tops were definitely still used in 1979.  Further question - was that regional beer still in steel, not aluminum, cans?  That would be another fine touch.  I think it took Hamms longer to convert, but the beer in that scene was not Hamms.

 

Better Call Karl?

 

That was definitely a steel can.  The bottom doesn't look anything like an aluminum can.  

 

Iron City Beer here in Pittsburgh was still using steel into the 80s. 

[Inquisitionist]

Only thing is he was max 50 years old in season 1

 

Why do you draw that conclusion?  BBT was in his late 50s when S1 was filmed (he's 60 now), and Malvo looks that old to me, too.

 

Exactly! The anticipation waiting for each episode is part of the fun. If this show were on Netflix I don't know if I would like it as much. Too much all at once.

 

This is also a show whose nuances deserved to be discussed.  Many of them would get lost in the shuffle if the whole season were available at once.

[ToastnBacon]

Maybe Lorne Malvo is the Undertaker's apprentice in 1979?

[Rockstar99435]

The more we see of the Gerhardts this season, the more clear it is that Floyd's been turning a blind eye to a lot of Gerhardt awfulness for a long time. She'll intervene when it's right in front of her--preventing Dodd from whipping Bear, telling Dodd to lay off Simone--but there's no indication that she's done anything to stop Dodd from abusing Simone. Dodd also made a casual comment that "the belt was Dad's thing," which could imply that Dodd and Bear were abused by Otto and that Floyd allowed this to go on.

 

Also, Floyd's poor decisionmaking is getting people killed. It was her bright idea to send the lynch mob to fetch Charlie, which could have resulted in a massacre of innocents. Karmically, it's not looking good for her.

 

But that raises the question, how much power did Floyd have over Otto and the rest of the men? No matter how tough and strong she is, her gender is still holding her back. It affects how others see and respect her. Bear listens to her, but Dodd doesn't.

 

I do wish that she had taken more of a "Queen of Thorns" role with Simone. The difference between how Charlie and Simone are being treated is clearly different. Charlie is being groomed by his family to join the family business. Simone is raised around the business, but her role is undefined and she has no clear place. Her dad doesn't want her involved in the business, not because he is worried about her (like Bear with Charlie), but because he sees her as worthless because of her gender. Her grandmother does want her involved, but doesn't give her any guidance until this episode and even then it's very vague. "Be a leader." And, at the same time, Simone isn't encouraged to find a life outside of the family business (like Charlie and school). Imagine how different she would be if her grandmother had started teaching her from a young age to use other people's lowered expectations of her against them, like Otto did with child Dodd at the movie theater. The men didn't search Dodd because they assumed that since he was a child, he was harmless. With proper support and guidance, Simone could've give Mike small bits of true information to earn his trust, only to lead him and his men into a trap. 

[roughing it]

I can't remember - what drew the KC mob to the Gerhardt's in the first place?

[AuntiePam]

 

I can't remember - what drew the KC mob to the Gerhardt's in the first place?

 

Do you mean why did they negotiate with them in the first place, or why did they go to the house in this last episode? 

[Inquisitionist]

I can't remember - what drew the KC mob to the Gerhardt's in the first place?

 

As I recall it, the Gerhardt patriarch had a stroke, and the KC mob saw an opportunity.  From AV Club's episode recap:

 

As if this tempest of conflicting narratives weren’t enough, “Waiting For Dutch” pulls the lens back further by concluding at a meeting of a Kansas City organized crime outfit, where frontman Joe Bulo outlines a “Northern Expansion Strategy.” His thorough and professional slide presentation challenges the provincial view of Lou “Local Matter” Solverson and confirms the “bigger” prophecy of Karl Weathers. Bulo tells his own story, one in which the rational actors of the Kansas City syndicate capitalize on the confusion up north to expand their own empire.

 

[roughing it]

Yes, I meant negotiating in the first place.  Thanks Inquisitionist, for your reply.  The first episode was such a jumble in setting up the story, so many things going on.  I must rewatch.

[The Wild Sow]

 

Those leisure suits and pimp coats that the Kitchen Brothers wear, and some of Simone's clothes were really something you would have seen earlier in the decade. At least on the East Coast that stuff was out of style in 1979.

Ha, of course, we have to remember that they aren't on the East Coast!

 

I was thinking the same thing about the Avocado/Harvest Gold/Coppertone appliances.  I got my first apartment in 1974, and I had a lot of slightly older friends who were buying houses & new appliances around then, and those colors were the new, in thing.  By 1978, when I bought my first house and new appliances, the colors were already a little passé & white was back in style!  Hey, Pittsburgh is maybe a little more "East" than Luverne ;-)

 

I did get married in 1976 -- and I could probably dig up some wedding pix of my brothers in their leisure suits.

[Bort]

Ha, of course, we have to remember that they aren't on the East Coast!

 

I was thinking the same thing about the Avocado/Harvest Gold/Coppertone appliances.  I got my first apartment in 1974, and I had a lot of slightly older friends who were buying houses & new appliances around then, and those colors were the new, in thing.  By 1978, when I bought my first house and new appliances, the colors were already a little passé & white was back in style!  Hey, Pittsburgh is maybe a little more "East" than Luverne ;-)

 

I did get married in 1976 -- and I could probably dig up some wedding pix of my brothers in their leisure suits.

Responding in Small Talk thread...

[Oosala]

I read this whole thread and didn't see anyone else saying this, although it may have been mentioned in a previous episode thread.  I want to give full props to Son of Oosala for coming up with this nickname:  Cattle Prod Dodd.

 

I hope he's not dead.  I think he's really hot.

[Eyes High]

I hope he's not dead.  I think he's really hot.

 

I think the character of Dodd is repulsive, but Jeffrey Donovan's a good-looking man, and he's wearing the crap out of the 1970s fashions.

[Juliegirlj]

I am so loving everything about this show from the spot on casting, on point acting, great character development, script, set design, etc! The Betsy cancer storyline is sad, and I am dreading her losing her battle, and seeing Hank's heartbreak, and Lou being left alone to raise Molly. I almost wish they would get it over with because wondering when it will happen is distracting me. I am thinking the undertaker won't be the force the are building him up to be, although if it ended up being a Lorne Malvo tie in with season one that would be so great!

[shapeshifter]

The Betsy cancer storyline is sad, and I am dreading her losing her battle, and seeing Hank's heartbreak, and Lou being left alone to raise Molly. I almost wish they would get it over with because wondering when it will happen is distracting me.

Do we know for sure it will happen within the season's time frame? Given the high calibur of storytelling thus far, it wouldn't surprise me if they leave it as a future event. Showing it could appear melodramatic, like a Life Time movie, whereas leaving it to the viewers' imaginations would, IMO, be more real and personal for each viewer, and not feel manipulative.

OTOH, given that it was more of a death sentence at that time than it is now, it might make sense to at least refer to that outcome, if not show it.

Edited November 22, 2015 by shapeshifter

[MaryPatShelby]

Full disclosure, I did not watch Season 1 (thought it wasn't required to follow this season). I am enjoying this season, and thought I was following along just fine, til I came here and everyone is talking about Sioux Falls. What is the deal with Sioux Falls, and did I miss something this season that would have told me that?

I'm assuming Lester and Malvo are characters from season 1, and I for one will be disappointed if this story all comes back to them in some way since, again, this was touted as an anthology during a completely different time from Season 1.

[ToastnBacon]

Full disclosure, I did not watch Season 1 (thought it wasn't required to follow this season). I am enjoying this season, and thought I was following along just fine, til I came here and everyone is talking about Sioux Falls. What is the deal with Sioux Falls, and did I miss something this season that would have told me that?I'm assuming Lester and Malvo are characters from season 1, and I for one will be disappointed if this story all comes back to them in some way since, again, this was touted as an anthology during a completely different time from Season 1.

You didn't really miss anything important to understand what is going on this season.

The older Lou in season one only referenced a really bad crime scene he worked in Sioux Falls.

Season two is the story of it.

Edited November 22, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[WearyTraveler]

Full disclosure, I did not watch Season 1 (thought it wasn't required to follow this season). I am enjoying this season, and thought I was following along just fine, til I came here and everyone is talking about Sioux Falls. What is the deal with Sioux Falls, and did I miss something this season that would have told me that?

I'm assuming Lester and Malvo are characters from season 1, and I for one will be disappointed if this story all comes back to them in some way since, again, this was touted as an anthology during a completely different time from Season 1.

 

It is an anthology.  Watching season 1 is not required to understand anything happening in season 2.  That said, there are some characters in Season 1 that are present in season 2, so, for those of us that saw Season 1, it's a nice little connection.  Also, since the inspiration for this series was the movie Fargo, there are some thematic aspects that are common to all three (the movie, S1 and S2).  Notably, off course, the town of Fargo, the speech patterns, the kind of people, etc.  Finally, the movie and the series have that Coen brothers vibe and elements that they do in all their projects.  So, you might read analyses comparing and contrasting elements of all these things.

 

Season one's protagonist is Molly, Lou's daughter, all grown up and a cop herself. Lester and Malvo were characters in season 1 who had some traits that are present in other characters in Coen projects, so, you see them mentioned.  The parallels between Season 1 and the movie Fargo are more apparent than in season 2; For example, Molly being very similar to Marge Gunderson and Lester being very similar to Jerry Lundegaard.  So, you may see people wondering "who is the "Jerry" of season 2?" and things like that.

 

Season two's protagonist is Lou, doing his own case.  Same character, different actor (because the character is way younger), and a self-contained, different case.  But, for those of us who have watched season 1, it's interesting to remember some of the dialog and speculate. For example, we heard Lou say something about staying up all night doing a vigil of his own, and this season, we think we saw that vigil.  But that is not knowledge necessary to understand this case or this season.  It's just a little connection that is cool for those of us who saw the first season.

 

I think it's kind of brilliant how they can do that: put in some connections for the viewers who watched the first season while at the same time keeping it all self contained so that watching one season is not necessary to enjoy the other season.

 

All of that said, Season 1 was pretty good, maybe you should give it a try.

Edited November 22, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[ToastnBacon]

Do we know for sure it will happen within the season's time frame? Given the high calibur of storytelling thus far, it wouldn't surprise me if they leave it as a future event. Showing it could appear melodramatic, like a Life Time movie, whereas leaving it to the viewers' imaginations would, IMO, be more real and personal for each viewer, and not feel manipulative.

OTOH, given that it was more of a death sentence at that time than it is now, it might make sense to at least refer to that outcome, if not show it.

I don't need to see Besty die, and I agree it would probably play better if they leave us with her being sick, but still alive.

[SteveAC10]

 

It was a gold and red can, right?

It could be Grain Belt. It was a popular regional brand brewed in NE Minneapolis - It shut down in 1976 (and resurrected and as a more premium brand in the aughts), but artistic license and all.....A couple other local brews Schlitz and Schmidt's also had red and gold logos.

[John Potts]

The longer this Season goes on, the  less it seems like the "Mob War" is going to be anything but a pushover for the Corporation - despite mounting an impressive strike last week, the Gerhardts are losing men way too fast (including one from "friendly fire" this week!) and not even to particularly impressive opponents (OK, Peggy didn't kill Dodd - at least that we saw - but he had her outnumbered and outgunned and still came off the worst in the encounter). Plus the fact that the only one with any brains in the family is Floyd - and Mike looks likely to eliminate her next week (if he hasn't already).

 

It does seem hard to believe that the Gerhardts have lasted as long as they have when they are so reckless as to plan an armed assault on a police station (OK, that may be because Dodd is a hot head who's looking to assert his authority - but it can't be so far from how the family normally operates) - because directly confronting the authorities pretty much guarantees a federal smackdown - their home might be a fortress but it won't stand up long to the US Army/National Guard/SWAT teams.

 

RustbeltWriter  if I ever get into legal trouble I want drunk Karl Weathers as my attorney. "Out of my way, tool of the state!"

 

 

Me too! The guy may be a drunken, blowhard conspiracy nut, but he managed to talk down a lynch mob. That takes some balls (even if he did soil himself in the process)!

[A Boston Gal]

 

....I think it's kind of brilliant how they can do that: put in some connections for the viewers who watched the first season while at the same time keeping it all self contained so that watching one season is not necessary to enjoy the other season.

 

All of that said, Season 1 was pretty good, maybe you should give it a try.

Weary Traveler, you summed that up beautifully. Thank you.

Edited November 24, 2015 by A Boston Gal

[Macbeth]

I had a Sam and Diane from Cheers flashback when I saw Ted Danson and Kristen Dunst go toe to toe.

 

 Hank got exasperated  when dealing with Peggy just like Sam did with Diane.  Dealing with a blonde who is not dealing with the realities with her situation, classic Sam and Diane. 

 

Of course, Hank had more reason to be exasperated what with the hight body count and all. 

[GodsBeloved]

Rewatching this episode recently and noticed that Karl has a flyer taped to the glass door of the sheriff's office.

 

ARE YOU IN TROUBLE?

 

YOU NEED

<verbage I can't make out>

 

Karl A. Weathers

 

<More verbage and what looks to be his diploma>

 

Call 555-1022.

 

 

I don't know why, but I found this hilarious LOL

Edited December 14, 2015 by GodsBeloved

[Inquisitionist]

I'm thinking that Hanzee is part of the family, adopted in some strange way. He appears to have status beyond that of a hired gun.

I think his status comes from his association with Dodd, who ranks ahead of Bear simply by dint of birth order.

I would like it if Bear turned out to be the crime boss from Season 1. Wasn't that guy's name "Mr. Tripoli," though? Maybe Bear is forced to adopt a new alias by his KC overlords in recognition of the Gerhardts' destruction, but I doubt it.

So close, so close. ;-)

Edited December 30, 2015 by Dougal

[cleo]

I'm just watching this now, and I'm enjoying it so much more than last season. Last season there were episodes I fast forwarded through near the end. Did not like the whole framing of the brother, or the physical trainers death. I skipped all the scenes related to the frame. I also did not enjoy the fish.

 

This season has me riveted, just enjoying all the characters so much more. One nitpick this ep- realistically, they would have taken Peggy in for questioning with Ed. They most certainly would not have left her alone with one cop knowing people were after her. At the very least they would have taken her for safety.

So glad Hank didn't die.

I don't get why Hanzee is so loyal to Dodd. He could do better.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 11/24/2015 at 7:50 AM, John Potts said:

Me too! The guy may be a drunken, blowhard conspiracy nut, but he managed to talk down a lynch mob. That takes some balls (even if he did soil himself in the process)!

Karl being a drunken, big word talking, gun packing Vietnam vet reminded me a bit of John Goodman playing Walter in The Big Lebowski.