S02.E08: Hi, I'm Philip

[possibilities]

I'm not taking Nate off the table as a suspect for who did some killing. Yes, he doctored those records and yes he tailed Phillip, which makes it look like he's trying to help Annalise. But I just don't trust him. I was very glad when Annalise told him that while she is sorry, she's not going to acquiesce to a violent fucking as penance. And even if he truly has forgiven and is in love with Annalise, no reason he couldn't be the one who killed Sinclair.

 

I can't forgive Frank for killing "the dead girl" in Season 1 (Lila), and I find him even more untrustworthy than everybody else, partly because we still have no real backstory for him, so his motives can't be understood. He looks like he's just a thug for hire, who now also has issues of wanting approval and can be manipulated just like the interns, by a desire for Annalise's favor. With the K4, we see how they got into the Sam murder mess, with Asher we see how he got into the Trotter Lake mess, even with Bonnie we see what her buttons are and that she's not just randomly hiring herself out for hits. Not to minimize any of these crimes, but at least we are given a sense of the parameters. With Frank, so far it's just a job for him. He's there specifically to kill, bribe, plant evidence, destroy evidence, dispose of bodies (alive or dead), and generally do whatever, and it's not like it even seems to bother him at all. The most upset we've ever seen him was tonight, when Annalise insulted him for not getting the DNA results fast enough.

 

I think Oliver suggested they talk in public because he wasn't sure if he was being abducted or not. Likewise, that's why he left the door open and didn't take his phone or clean up the spilled milk. He needed to leave clues so Connor would know he hadn't just stepped out for innocent reasons. Besides which, Philip told him not to touch his phone, and was acting very threatening-- if he "just wanted to talk" he could have met Connor at the coffee shop, or sat outside Oliver's apartment and waited for him to come home. I think he didn't really give Oliver a choice about talking or the phone or anything else (except maybe leaving the door ajar), and had not decided yet how he was going to handle Oliver, until after the conversation. It might be because he's actually guilty of something like murder, and prone to violence generally, or it could just be because he's freaked out by being hacked and accused. I am pretty sure that if I found someone had hacked my computer, was spying on me, and was accusing me of anything (nevermind a double homicide), I would be quite on edge and not trusting them or wanting to play nice. If anything, Philip showed restraint in how he acted about it. To me, that either means he's guilty or he isn't-- equally likely to go either way. (DNA at the crime scene also looks bad, except that if he's friends with Catherine and/or Caleb, there are other reasons it could be there.... again, it looks bad for him, but this show is all about the fake out, so how can we be sure?)

 

I think it's hard to say whether Caleb is being honest with Michaela (about his feelings for her or about the gun), and what exactly is going on with Catherine and Philip. They know each other, but that is not inherently criminal. She's upset, but again-- with what is going on, why wouldn't she be? Maybe the two of them are the guilty parties, but maybe she's just realizing that the lawyer she and Caleb hired are framing Philip, who they like. I mean, who knows? They could be engaged in a cover up like the K4, of something that they didn't premeditate (like the K4) or like Annalise (who is protecting someone else). It could be the obvious or it could be anything else at all, with this show.

 

Cobbler Effect is spreading, from Annalise to everyone else, I guess.

Edited November 13, 2015 by possibilities

[ChuckWagon]

 

Annalise being partcularily nasty to Frank. Woman, he's your Fixer. He's done shit for you, you don't want him getting on your bad side. Bonnie is one thing, she wasn't involved in all of that illegal stuff, but Frank. You'd better treat him right, or he'll "Fix" you.

 

..as in shoot you? :)

 

The friction b/w Annalise and Frank seems to be almost too played up ... as it being an act.  Not sure to what purpose.  Probably none and I err in drawing that conclusion.

 

Think I also err in that from S2EP1 I thought for sure Annalise was shot on purpose by Frank or Bonnie to deflect from *something*.  Not sure what that something was but couldn't help but think of Scream... when Stu stabs Billy Loomis to make themselves look like victims of their scapegoat....but if this is totally off, why Frank's act for the cameras?

 

 

 

[chabelisaywow]

 

Who is Glen??

Good thought about the Mama text! But I was hoping Mama showed up for a visit.

  

lol sorry - Glen is a character from the Walking Dead

and Me Too - I love Cicily Tyson

[cooksdelight]

Frank and that huge suitcase full of cash.... I hope he has a good security system in his place.

[HalcyonDays]

..as in shoot you? :)

 

Or frame you. Or something shady. Seriously. Maybe this is an act for whatever reason, but you don't mess with your Fixer like this, or mistreat him at all. I don't think Frank shot Annalise, but who knows with this show.

 

Frank and that huge suitcase full of cash.... I hope he has a good security system in his place.

 

Or like I said. Fire protection. :')

[RedheadZombie]

Everything seemed to make sense last night, but now I'm questioning most of it, and I'm a little confused.

 

Liza Weil did a great job portraying Bonnie's devastation.  She's my favorite character, so I really wish that she falsely confessed to Rebecca's murder.  Plus, Asher and Bonnie are the only couple I like.

 

I don't understand the stupidity of Nate and Annalise continuing to canoodle.  Nate's not even using a burner phone.  Texts are forever, and how stupid is it to text that you're outside the house?

 

I can't with the stupid SL of Nate forging a medical document.  First, isn't he just a beat cop now?  He's at the bottom of the totem pole, so his computer access would be controlled.  But even if Nate was the police commissioner, forms can't be changed like that.  Dumb, dumb, dumb.  And unless he's manipulating Annalise, he's really selling his soul to the devil.

 

Really don't like the catherine/caleb case. Both of them irked me this episode. I wanted them both to go to jail. But this s/l is the only one I've predicted since this show started. Catherine did it. Caleb trying to save her. Michaela trying to save him. Not sure if that's the end of it with caleb though, not sure if it's just the acting, but michaela seems way more into him than he is her. Surprised she would jump in head first after want happened with Levi. 

 

I don't like the siblings either, they're terrible actors.  I guessed that her submissive, trembling, frightened little girl act was fake.  I'm completely non-violent, but I really want to slap her half the time.

 

Michaela has absolutely no radar - gay or otherwise.  She has a long-term relationship with a gay man, and impulsively jumps into bed with two shady men.  She needs a vibrator,  and better impulse control.

 

Something I don't understand.  Caleb said he found the dusty gun "last week".  Is that what he said?   If he has feelings for Michaela, and NOT Catherine, then why would he sacrifice his life for Catherine?  I guess it's because he really does love her as a sister?   But - he suspects her of killing HIS PARENTS .....  !!   So why would he go to jail for 30 years for her...  Man...   Shit is cray

 

Everything is shady.  Caleb attempts to go to prison to "protect" his sister?  How about protecting the rest of the world from the little psycho?  Whether she did it or not, Caleb is implying he thinks she did.  How does going to prison (leaving her unprotected) help her in any way?  And why does everyone act like Caleb/Catherine are now safe?  I'm assuming the charges were dropped, but there's no double jeopardy involved since they never went to trial.

 

I don't trust the DNA results.  If Philip is the computer whiz they imply, he could have manipulated a lot of things.  Plus, the DNA results really mean nothing, because the specimen was collected by Oliver.  The donor of the sample wasn't verified.

 

Why was the DA freaking out about messing up?  Of course she did mess up, but it's not like Annalise was telling on her about the bug, and the judge didn't seem to care that she met with the defendants without their attorney.  It makes me think it's something else.

 

Asher's dance...Oh, my god!  That was ..I have no words.  But yay for Asher pulling the win for the team.

 

Nate's abs.  Oh, my god!  How is such ab perfection even possible.  I swer they oiled him up for maximum effect.

 

Michaela getting hers with Caleb.  Go on girl!  I love how she asked if he was possible gay.  Her ex- fiance really marked her for life.

 

Damn, Frank knows everybody doesn't he? 

 

So...some questions still remaining:

1)How did Catherine and Phillip hook up?

2) What is their relationship?

3) What really is Caleb and Catherine's relationship?  They seem super protective of each other.  Now finding out that their father had 'relations' with his own sister, was that consensual? molestation?  Did he touch Catherine?  Is that why Caleb is so willing to protect her?

4) Is Caleb really innocent in all of this or are they playing the K5?

 

I won't go into the obvious re: who shot Annalise, so I am gathering everything will revealed next week.

 

This season has been awfully good.  So much better than last season.

 

Asher's dance was everything!  I watched it about five times, and it's amazing that the other actors in the scene kept straight faces.  I didn't care for him last season, but he's really grown on me.

 

As to #4, I think Caleb's totally shady.  He's playing Michaela, and he's compromising her by showing her the gun.  Why the idiot would just leave it there, is beyond me.  If he's completely innocent, then he's simply a imbecile.   I think they played a divide and conquer on Wes and Michaela.  Too funny that Catherine caused Wes to figure it out.  Of course that's assuming Wes didn't react the way they set him up to react. 

[Gardencrown]

 

Liza Weil did a great job portraying Bonnie's devastation.  She's my favorite character, so I really wish that she falsely confessed to Rebecca's murder.  Plus, Asher and Bonnie are the only couple I like.

I totally agree (though I love Conner and Oliver too)...but I don't understand how they can bring Weil's character "back" from killing Rebecca. Now heaven knows, I was just as glad as the next person to be rid of the annoying character, and I'm glad the mystery here isn't "Who killed Rebecca?" But...man, she put a plastic bag over the girl's head. It wasn't even arguably self-defense-protect-someone-ish that Wes' killing of Sam was. And as for Frank -- well, I don't know. He's so much more cavalier in general, and while possibly a sociopath, he doesn't really need any level of redemption -- according to the rules of this show. But Bonnie...I do feel tremendous sympathy for her suffering, and I find myself rooting for her and Doucheface -- but really, there's no particular way the murder she committed is "forgivable" if that makes sense. Not saying that Frank's IS, just that it's almost like the writers want us to look past it...I don't know if I'm making sense, lol. But all things considered, it wouldn't surprise me if the second half of the season ends up with Bonnie dead as the mystery to lead us to Season 3.

 

And the Nate goodness this week was goodness indeed. Maybe he's playing Annalise, but I don't care so long as we have more shirtless Nate. Shirtless (and um, more?) Nate FTW!!!

[Dowel Jones]

• Asher doing his "I found the wire" dance cracked me up!!

   

  Followed shortly by Annalise's death glare at Laurel's absolutely wooden recital of her line in the setup. 

Frank and that huge suitcase full of cash

 

Just doing some mental math here, at 20 $100 bills per package, $50,000 would be 25 packages.  I wonder how much is really in that gigantorandus suitcase.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I don't understand the stupidity of Nate and Annalise continuing to canoodle.  Nate's not even using a burner phone.  Texts are forever, and how stupid is it to text that you're outside the house?

...

 

Everything is shady.  Caleb attempts to go to prison to "protect" his sister?  How about protecting the rest of the world from the little psycho?  Whether she did it or not, Caleb is implying he thinks she did.  How does going to prison (leaving her unprotected) help her in any way?  And why does everyone act like Caleb/Catherine are now safe?  I'm assuming the charges were dropped, but there's no double jeopardy involved since they never went to trial.

 

I don't trust the DNA results.  If Philip is the computer whiz they imply, he could have manipulated a lot of things.  Plus, the DNA results really mean nothing, because the specimen was collected by Oliver.  The donor of the sample wasn't verified.

 

Why was the DA freaking out about messing up?  Of course she did mess up, but it's not like Annalise was telling on her about the bug, and the judge didn't seem to care that she met with the defendants without their attorney.  It makes me think it's something else.

 

In a sense, there's not much point in hiding any future relationship between Nate and Anni. The DA's office already knows about their past relationship, and has already gone after both of them because of that. As long as they are just saying relatively innocuous things like "Outside your door," I don't see how it would implicate them any further than they already have done.

 

I'm still waiting to see if Caleb's guilty, Catherine's guilty and/or Philp's guilty. Like Anni said, sometimes innocent people might take a deal because it's good. I could see an innocent person taking 10-15 years to spare a loved one from possibly getting life (whether or not that loved one was innocent or not).

 

Caleb's going to prison would presumably mean that the prosecutors would drop charges against Catherine, which is one form of protection.Catherine would come into her inheritance unchallenged. Gazillions of dollars will be enough to get protection in terms of security etc. in case whoever killed the other Hapstalls might come for her. 

 

While double jeopardy doesn't apply, as Anni said, it's a question of who is the best suspect. No jury, at least the argument goes, would find that Caleb and Catherine killed their parents beyond a reasonable doubt when there is the "in-bred weirdo" who has motive (jealousy and desire for the fortune he was denied) and who has DNA tying him to the scene. 

 

There's not much reason to Cobbler Effect the DNA findings. Although the chain of custody of Philip's DNA could come into question, they could always re-run the DNA results under more controlled conditions. There's no particular reason to think that Philip could have hacked the DNA results, as he had no knowledge of the DNA test being run as far as we know, and it seems like they are trying to confine Philip's computing skills to setting up the alerts to when people are trying to find out about him. Finally, there doesn't seem to be much incentive for Philip to inculpate himself.

 

DA Smugface has invested so much in trying to beat Anni, and had basically all the tools given to her to do so. And yet she still got her ass kicked. I'd be upset too.

[rubyred]

Frank and Laurel are boring because they're both tissue-thin characters with obvious stereotypical motives in being together. Frank wants Laurel because he thinks she's a princess, blah blah self esteem kid from the block issues. Laurel instinctively knows that Frank is just muscle in a three-piece suit, and she likes a bit of rough. Every other episode they argue about him telling her the truth about what he does for Annalise, but the girl knows. That's their game, and it's not as cute as the writers think it is.

 

Wes: he may be the only character who even remembers that he killed Sam. Derp, derp, no sex montage for you. The painting thing was weird, at first I was like, how does she know that Little Wes wore glasses and then I realized it's just one of her collection of random families that she likes to paint. Yes, Catherine, it is creepy.

 

I'm always amazed at how fictional characters talk about prison and plea deals like going to prison ain't nothing. "I'll be out in five!" Catherine bleats, well what about your day-to-day life for five years, idiot? It's double homicide, you're not going to some country club prison.

 

I was relieved that Oliver was ok, but I think it's because the writers don't plan ahead and just wanted a good stinger for last week's episode. They're always dropping tantalizing shit like that and then never referring to it again, just so they can live up to the show's rep for a shocking! reveal! For example, I hope that Nate is rubbing up against Annalise to keep his enemy closer, but I would not be surprised if it turns out that no, he never did have a jump on her.

 

The actor playing Caleb is not an actor.

[dirtypop90]

Wasn't the plea deal 30 yrs, not 10-15? I can't see someone signing up for that kind of time (even if they only do 85%) in these circumstances, based on what Caleb told Michaela, he is at least acting as if he is unsure that Catherine commited the crime. So, if he's telling the truth, he hasn't even had a convo with Catherine about whether she did it and definitely doesn't have a confession from Catherine. So I think he knows more or was more involved because I can't understand him taking a 30 yr plea deal just because he thinks Catherine did it but actually has no idea what went down.

Catherine may be playing him with Philip but he definitely knows more than he's letting on. I wouldn't be surprised if him and Catherine planned this out.

The guy who plays Caleb is a model turned actor. He was hired for the pretty. I got it. But they need to not give him meaty scenes. In the previews he's crying (attempting to) to someone, probably Michaela, and from the .5 second you can see, it's bad...

Edited November 13, 2015 by dirtypop90

[pennben]

 

Plus, the DNA results really mean nothing, because the specimen was collected by Oliver.  The donor of the sample wasn't verified.

 

Oh my god, I would stand up and applaud and laugh and laugh if it somehow turned out Oliver killed the Hapstills, which is why he became so invested in the case, and he just gave them his DNA sample instead of the other guy's sample!  I don't think they told us it was a match to the Hapstill father, just that it was a match to the crime scene.  And here we all would have been, love Oliver/hope he's okay all season and then boom!

Edited November 13, 2015 by pennben

[represent]

 

love Oliver/hope he's okay all season and then boom!

Yeah, I buy it because I don't think that "love stories" are the goal on this show. There's always a hint or hope of something for these screwed up people,  but these suckers are straight up murderers and/or breaking laws to cover up murders and other crimes, that's first and foremost on this show. So, what else is Oliver going to do for the foreseeable future?  Are just going to keep him as Connor's loving, innocent significant other?  After a while, on this show, that sounds boring.

 

Yeah, that can't last, so either he's got be killed or start getting the side eye like everyone else on this show. Because I've even side eyed Eve in terms of say whether she would throw Nate's case for selfish reasons.

 

Yeah, if I'm side eyeing peach cobbler then no way should Oliver be exempt.

Edited November 13, 2015 by represent

[ribboninthesky1]

I was one who thought season one was subpar, and had given up on this show. I just caught up on the aired episodes, and I'm glad I gave it another shot.  For one, the writing, as OTT as it is, feels a lot more cohesive and coherent than it did last season.  Two, and probably because of number one, the performances from the cast feel more natural.  It doesn't feel like the writers are making it up as they go along, and the in media res device does what it's meant to - bring the present and past together, little by little. Fingers crossed that things don't go left next episode. 

 

I wanted to nominate Viola Davis for another Emmy JUST for her "Have mercy, Jesus!" reaction when Nate took his shift off. I thought she was all over the place last season, but she's been bringing it this season.  If Annalise hadn't set Nate up for Sam's murder, I would be totally all about their...dynamic.  When Famke Janssen and Viola are opposite, all I see is "we're portraying characters who had/have romantic feelings for each other because the script says so." I can see the friendship, but the romance? Nah.  But Billy Brown and Viola Davis? Hot as hell. Too bad the fly-by-night writing from last season ruined the writing for Nate and Annalise because I have to agree with others in that, unless Nate is playing Annalise, he's crazy for continuing to engage her. 

 

Also, show, please continue to use jewel tones for Annalise's wardrobe. She rocks those colors. 

[ToukieSmith]

I want to know who Sinclair was talking to on the phone when Annalise walked into her office.

 

The person on the other end seemed to be the one pulling her strings to get Annalise.  I wonder if its Eve?  Eve may be running a long con on Annalise too. 

 

 

 

LOL, I had the same look on my face - that was excellent acting by Ms. Diva.

Edited November 14, 2015 by ToukieSmith

[Chicago Redshirt]

Wasn't the plea deal 30 yrs, not 10-15? 

There were different deals discussed.

 

I think the original deal was 15 for each Hapstall. Catherine agreed to 15 and no time for Caleb, and then Caleb agreed to 10, or something. I freely admit that I don't remember the exact details, so someone feel free to correct.

[secnarf]

I may have seen this wrong, that happens a lot to me with this show, but at the beginning I thought there was a shot of Bonnie taking a gun from someones hand. Did that really happen? or was it from a different scene that I don't remember? Because if it was how I remember then Bonnie didn't shoot her and is protecting whoever did, which I would assume would be Asher?

I'm going to see if I can find that.

 

ETA: It looks like Wes gave her something, not sure if it was a gun. Not sure of anything much.

I think Wes gave her a gun, but I don't see how that means Bonnie didn't shoot Annalise? Can you elaborate?

 

 

Who do you think Analiese sent the selfie too? lol I'm thinking Eve, even though it said "Mama"

I'm pretty sure it was her mother.

 

There were different deals discussed.

    I think the original deal was 15 for each Hapstall. Catherine agreed to 15 and no time for Caleb, and then Caleb agreed to 10, or something. I freely admit that I don't remember the exact details, so someone feel free to correct.

 

Original deal was 15 each, Caleb agreed to 30 if Catherine served nothing, and then Catherine agreed to 10 if Caleb served nothing. I think, anyways :P

I really don't understand how if their plan is to pin this on Philip, how do they expect to get away with hacking him? And if the investigation turns to Philip, they're very quickly going to find out that the police records regarding him are falsified. I don't get how they think things will work out in their favour.

Edited November 13, 2015 by secnarf

[ToukieSmith]

When Famke Janssen and Viola are opposite, all I see is "we're portraying characters who had/have romantic feelings for each other because the script says so." I can see the friendship, but the romance? Nah.  But Billy Brown and Viola Davis? Hot as hell. Too bad the fly-by-night writing from last season ruined the writing for Nate and Annalise because I have to agree with others in that, unless Nate is playing Annalise, he's crazy for continuing to engage her.

 

I think this may be why I just don't believe the Eve/Annalise pairing.  Annalise has had more chemistry with Frank, Bonnie and Wes than she does with Eve.

 

 

I really don't understand how if their plan is to pin this on Philip, how do they expect to get away with hacking him? And if the investigation turns to Philip, they're very quickly going to find out that the police records regarding him are falsified. I don't get how they think things will work out in their favour.

 

But did Nate login as himself or did he sit down at a random desk and use someone else's ID?

Edited November 13, 2015 by ToukieSmith

[represent]

Oh, and let me just add that the actress and actor who play Michaela and Connor have some serious chemistry. They were so cute in the Star Wars commercials during the show, like flirty cute. 

Edited November 13, 2015 by represent

[dgpolo]

I think Wes gave her a gun, but I don't see how that means Bonnie didn't shoot Annalise? Can you elaborate?

 

I'm pretty sure it was her mother.

 

 

 

 

Original deal was 15 each, Caleb agreed to 30 if Catherine served nothing, and then Catherine agreed to 10 if Caleb served nothing. I think, anyways :P

I really don't understand how if their plan is to pin this on Philip, how do they expect to get away with hacking him? And if the investigation turns to Philip, they're very quickly going to find out that the police records regarding him are falsified. I don't get how they think things will work out in their favour.

I was confused about the timeline, I thought the gun pass was after the shooting but on rewatch I see it was before giving Bonnie the 'supposed' (at this time) murder weapon.

 

I think they only have to prove reasonable doubt, so as long as they can throw Philip at the jury I guess they think that's enough.

[SoapDoc]

 

But did Nate login as himself or did he sit down at a random desk and use someone else's ID?

 

He didn't log in so there is not real way to trace the name change back to him. It would just come from some terminal. There is poor security in the police department where anyone can change reports at the drop of a hat.

[morgankobi]

Who do you think Analiese sent the selfie too? lol I'm thinking Eve, even though it said "Mama"

I'm pretty sure we can take it at face value since the last time we saw her reach-out to her mom was when she was at rock-bottom last season, and I think she was close to there at the start of this episode.

 

Wow #3: Annalise being partcularily nasty to Frank. Woman, he's your Fixer. He's done shit for you, you don't want him getting on your bad side. Bonnie is one thing, she wasn't involved in all of that illegal stuff, but Frank. You'd better treat him right, or he'll "Fix" you.

 

I really do love the crap out of this insane show, but this felt like a late tack-on so we think Frank also has a reason to shoot Annalise. It was really out of character for both of them this episode. I didn't like it.

 

 

I'm trying to think of of a comment to this post so I have a reason to re-post it. Hold on, be right back...

Edited November 14, 2015 by morgankobi

[DearEvette]

Oh, and let me just add that the actress and actor who play Michaela and Connor have some serious chemistry. They were so cute in the Star Wars commercials during the show, like flirty cute. 

 

Oh I love Michaela and Connor together.  if he weren't gay I'd totally be shipping them.  But right now I am bro-shipping them.  I need them to be best friends!  Of all of them they seem like the two that are reacting the most normally to their fucked up situation.

 

Asher of course is in the dark. Lauren and Wes seem like murdering someone and covering it up is just one more thing to do.  They feel unrepetent.  But Michaela and Connor have both freaked out in various ways and at various times.  And to me they seem like they both have a soul unlike  Laurel/Wes.

[Jodie Landon]

I worried about Oliver more than I wondered if Glen is really dead.

 

Who do you think Analiese sent the selfie too? lol I'm thinking Eve, even though it said "Mama"

I think it was actually her mother because when her mother came to visit she pointed out that Analiese's hair wasn't done, and combed it for her. Before Analiese sent the pic she made sure that her natural hair was perfectly coiffed.

[wanderingstar]

Cobbler Effect is spreading, from Annalise to everyone else, I guess.

 

There's not much reason to Cobbler Effect the DNA findings.

 

1. I need to find ways to incorporate Cobbler Effect into my daily vocabulary.
2. I love that we're using Cobbler Effect as a verb now!

 

Also, I love the memes in this recap: 'How To Get Away With Murder' Recap: House of Buggin'

Edited November 14, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[represent]

 

I really do love the crap out of this insane show, but this felt like a late tack-on so we think Frank also has a reason to shoot Annalise. It was really out of character for both of them this episode. I didn't like it.

I think in the end this was to show, that nobody does it like Frank and Bonnie for that matter, because when it was crunch time, try as they did, the Keating -4, cause Wes was off, failed. But good old Frank came through. He's priceless.

 

They had Anna say something to Frank about this is why you could never become  a lawyer. Does anyone remember what she said exactly?

 

Because I'm still trying to figure out this relationship, her relationship with Bonnie is a lot clearer. But I still don't have enough on her and Frank.

[secnarf]

They had Anna say something to Frank about this is why you could never become  a lawyer. Does anyone remember what she said exactly?

 

"That's why you'll never be a lawyer, because you don't have basic common sense!"

[SourK]

Yes, yes, plot twists and shirtless men, but the most important revelation to me was that Connor thinks you can destroy a hard drive by hitting the keyboard and screen with a hammer.

[dirtypop90]

Oh, and let me just add that the actress and actor who play Michaela and Connor have some serious chemistry. They were so cute in the Star Wars commercials during the show, like flirty cute. 

 

That actress has chemistry with everyone I've noticed based on vids I've seen with her and connor, laurel, and alfie (wes). Her personality is very warm and bubbly, very different from her character.

Edited November 14, 2015 by dirtypop90

[Chicago Redshirt]

I really don't understand how if their plan is to pin this on Philip, how do they expect to get away with hacking him? And if the investigation turns to Philip, they're very quickly going to find out that the police records regarding him are falsified. I don't get how they think things will work out in their favour.

 

They don't need iron-clad proof that Philip did it. They just need to create reasonable doubt that Catherine and Caleb did.

 

Going back to Day 1 of class, Step 1 is Discredit the prosecution witnesses. The only witness of any note that the prosecution has is Dead Racist Aunt, who by the way has put her brother to the test with incest.

 

Step 2 is come up with an alternative suspect. Philip is a way better suspect than Catherine and Caleb because he is so fundamentally weird and creepy, because he's got DNA on the scene and there's no particular reason he should have it, and because he was on the outside rather than the inside. 

 

So it's more just Anni being like, "If you try my clients, you will look foolish with inbred weirdo as an alternative."

 

If DA Smugface called her bluff and tried to prosecute Caleb and Catherine, then maybe all the stuff about their hacking and their confrontation with Philip might come to light, as would Nate's record-fixing. But it probably won't because Anni is right. 

 

BTW, Nate, you might be built like a brickhouse, but maybe you could be smarter than one? I mean, you just got your job back after being a) in the doghouse for admitting that Philly police manipulate evidence b) being on trial for murder and c) almost facing charges for assisted suicide which you dodged by d) getting someone to manipulate evidence.

 

It might behoove you to keep a low profile, or to at least not manipulate evidence in a way that seems both clumsy and easily traceable.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[ShadowSixx]

Just about everyone gets some loving with the exception of Asher and Wes. I'm not surprised that Anni slept with Nate, she was wanting it as many times as she came to his house with cobbler. 

 

Maybe Michaela might wanna ask some questions before she sleeps with someone, her fiance was gay, Levi is Eggs911 and Caleb showed her a weapon afterwards. If I was her I would lay off men for a minute.

 

That DA needs to be killed because she's just one big dumbass who is so incompetent that it's not even funny. 

 

Even Laurel being a Bonnie 2.0 still doesn't make her interesting. Something about her is just so damn boring and IDK if at this point if it's the actress fault or not, but something is severely missing from this character. 

 

Asher finding the bug was funny and like how he doesn't like being left out of the group. They still treat him as an outsider and is there really a significant reason as to why they do that? Do they not like his frat boy behavior?

[Artsda]

Good for Asher to discover the bug.

 

Loved Frank in an apron. 

 

Great episode all around.

[aradia22]

I still think this show is real dumb but so far the long term mystery (the one we keep flashing to at the beginning and end of every episode) is much more interesting (if convoluted) than Lila last year. Also, they managed to get me very tense about the one character I genuinely like... Oliver. And they brought in some nice distractions like Famke. I feel like they could be doing a lot more with Michaela. I liked Laurel's involvement last episode but I'm not interested in her and Frank. I miss fun Asher but I also like that they're making him more of a character and less of a joke. And that rap video was pretty great.

 

I love Oliver. He's so sweet and he makes me laugh. I need this show to be more like Empire and have a better sense of humor. This episode was a good start. It was mostly Oliver with the straws and the computer. But Annalise asking Laurel to be the new Bonnie and telling Asher he should be the new Frank and Asher's celebration dance was much appreciated after all the melodrama. Basically, keep Wes away from the plot. Notice how much better everything was without him sucking out all the oxygen... and fun. Also loved that look Annalise gave Laurel when she said "but why" too loudly.

 

I also appreciated that the solution didn't come from Annalise doing something unbelievable but Sinclair's own hubris and arrogance and tenacity.

 

Michaela has absolutely no radar - gay or otherwise.  She has a long-term relationship with a gay man, and impulsively jumps into bed with two shady men.  She needs a vibrator,  and better impulse control.

THIS. Aw, poor Michaela.

Edited November 14, 2015 by aradia22

[chabelisaywow]

 

I think it was actually her mother because when her mother came to visit she pointed out that Analiese's hair wasn't done, and combed it for her. Before Analiese sent the pic she made sure that her natural hair was perfectly coiffed.

okay, thanks - the smile through me off. lol Eve makes Annalise smile and her Mom kinda just keeps it real.

[wanderingstar]

For Michaela's sake, I hope Caleb is not playing her. But knowing this show, I am not optimistic.

[darkestboy]

Oliver's situation was resolved pretty quickly. Pleased that he wasn't killed off and that we got some great scenes with him and Connor in this episode.

 

Philip and Catherine I didn't see coming at the end. Michaela and Caleb I did but I think they work well enough though. Nice that Wes made the former connection though.

 

Annalise and Nate, little confused by but it could just be set up for next week's episode though.

 

Laurel and Frank will never excite me as a couple but they had some decent moments in this one.

 

Liked that Asher figured out Sinclair bugged the office.

 

Very little Bonnie in this one though, 9/10

[Chicago Redshirt]

Asher finding the bug was funny and like how he doesn't like being left out of the group. They still treat him as an outsider and is there really a significant reason as to why they do that? Do they not like his frat boy behavior?

 

Well, first of all, there is a reason his nickname is Doucheface.  He basically is the walking epitome of hetero white male privilege. Even as a viewer, a little of his bragging about his money, his sexiness, etc. goes a long way.

 

Second, even after all they've been through, I would say the only members of the K5 who approach being friends are Michaela and Connor. 

 

But most importantly, Asher is the only one who didn't participate in the killing of Sam and the subsequent coverup. He will always be on the outside until that gets revealed to him.

[wanderingstar]

I have to say I loved the montage of love scenes. It's the type of thing this show does well, and that other shows wish they could pull off (*cough* Quantico *cough*)

Edited November 14, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[secnarf]

They don't need iron-clad proof that Philip did it. They just need to create reasonable doubt that Catherine and Caleb did.

 

Going back to Day 1 of class, Step 1 is Discredit the prosecution witnesses. The only witness of any note that the prosecution has is Dead Racist Aunt, who by the way has put her brother to the test with incest.

 

Step 2 is come up with an alternative suspect. Philip is a way better suspect than Catherine and Caleb because he is so fundamentally weird and creepy, because he's got DNA on the scene and there's no particular reason he should have it, and because he was on the outside rather than the inside. 

 

So it's more just Anni being like, "If you try my clients, you will look foolish with inbred weirdo as an alternative."

 

If DA Smugface called her bluff and tried to prosecute Caleb and Catherine, then maybe all the stuff about their hacking and their confrontation with Philip might come to light, as would Nate's record-fixing. But it probably won't because Anni is right. 

 

BTW, Nate, you might be built like a brickhouse, but maybe you could be smarter than one? I mean, you just got your job back after being a) in the doghouse for admitting that Philly police manipulate evidence b) being on trial for murder and c) almost facing charges for assisted suicide which you dodged by d) getting someone to manipulate evidence.

 

It might behoove you to keep a low profile, or to at least not manipulate evidence in a way that seems both clumsy and easily traceable.

I know that they don't have to prove Philip is guilty in order to get Caleb and Catherine acquitted, but with DNA evidence she'd have to know that there would be an official investigation into Philip, possibly culminating in him being charged and going to trial himself. In this investigation that will inevitably occur, I don't understand how they think that none of this illegal stuff that they have done with respect to Philip will come to light.

 

And yeah, the dumber Nate gets, the less sympathy I have for him. At this point, he really should know better.

[ribboninthesky1]

Well, first of all, there is a reason his nickname is Doucheface.  He basically is the walking epitome of hetero white male privilege. Even as a viewer, a little of his bragging about his money, his sexiness, etc. goes a long way.

 

Bless Matt McGorry, because his performance persuades me to NOT actively dislike Asher.  But yeah, on the whole, I don't find Asher's schtick amusing or appealing. He has his moments, like in this episode, but generally, meh.  I appreciated how Bonnie broke it down to him about that poor college girl's gang rape.  At least with Sam's murder, even with all the others did, his death was a case of defending someone else. For me, Asher's past (and his present reaction, to a smaller degree) is more condemning to his character. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Thanks Gillian Rosh for the link to the Price Peterson GIFs, that guy is very funny.  I used to read his Empire recaps too.

 

Let's see if this works:

 

 

I'm not sure we've seen this scene in this exact lighting before:

 

Edited November 14, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[starri]

Michaela really has tremendous boobs, doesn't she?  I can see why Annalise was so quick to deploy them.

 

I think this deserves to be said:  Sarah Burns has done a tremendous job playing Emily Sinclair.  I can't think of a TV character recently that I've loathed nearly as much as Sinclair's Resting Bitch Face.  I don't like to think of myself that would actively root for the cold-blooded murder of even a fictional person, but I'm really looking forward to seeing her go over the roof next week.  I only regret that I've formed such a strong association with her as Sinclair, the next time I see her, I may want to throw something at the TV.  Watching her have a nervous breakdown as her case fell apart almost made me feel sorry for her.  Almost.

 

Like a lot of people, I loved the music in the sex scene, and really the entire thing.  It was well shot and edited.  Although I should have known that this show was never going to go out on a happy ending, even temporarily.

 

ETA:  After turning it over in my mind, I wonder if, now that they've established that Papa Hapstall abused his sister, if perhaps he might have also abused Catherine.  Which might explain her willingness to go along with killing him, even without involving some illicit relationship with Philip.

Edited November 14, 2015 by starri

[krimimimi]

Catherine and Phillip conspiring was a twist, but I am mostly relieved that Ollie is alive and unhurt so he can have hot sex with Connor. Connor has got to stop blaming Annalise for consequences of his own actions.

Not just that - Annalise didn't ask Oliver to hack Philip. And Connor expressly told him not to. Ollie just got carried away and did it of his own accord. That's on Oliver, and on Connor for 1) dragging him into things and 2) not giving him enough information to reasonably understand some of the potential danger Ollie is in.

Someone please explain to me what/how Wes figured things out by looking at the painting? What was in that painting?

[...]

So Catherine shot them for Philip? Because they are sleeping together, right?

Catherine gave Wes a painting. He thought it looked familiar. When he saw a screenshot of Philip, one of Catherine's painting was in the background. If Catherine didn't know Philip, why did he have one of her paintings?

Speaking of the Hapstall case, I'm sure others have said it but I still don't fully buy it was all Philip and I find Caleb's "I found it last week" story about the gun a little too coincidental. I think Caleb and Catherine wanted their parents dead, they found out about crazy, product of incest son Philip and got him to do it, because he was easy to manipulate. Or Philip found out about his family and reached out to them but either way, I don't think he all on his own decided to kill the parents if he did indeed kill them.

It was more than that with the painting IIRC, because I think the screencap showed the painting kinda crammed into a corner. If Philip had legit (and coincidentally) purchased it, that wouldn't be how he'd treat it. And for our benefits, having seen Catherine and Philip together, it shows us Philip probably doesn't love or particularly value her, or he'd treat the painting differently as well. So I think that would argue against him being her pawn, too, unless it's along the lines of winding him up and letting him loose, without needing him to care about her/them.

Also, pretty sure they aren't hooking up, because Catherine passed the virginity test a few eps back.

Thanks to everyone who posted Nate pics. Man is a TALL drink of water. I have to admit I don't understand the about face he did in this episode. I get the DA has made his life hell, that's fair. But he wanted nothing to do with Annalise two episodes ago. Agenda? Just a little strange...

I think it's easy to forget how isolating the past season and a half have been for Nate. The time (and emotional) commitment involved in caring for terminally ill family members tends to corrode a lot of acquaintanceships. He was on the outs at work (thanks to Anna) prior to being a suspect in Sam's murder, which doubtlessly made things even trickier for him at the station. I could totally see him being mostly on his own these days and just plain lonely.

The scenes in his apartment didn't show piles of cards, flowers, food and tupperware from concerned friends and neighbors (I'd bet the charges of assisted suicide/murder of his wife brought those to a screeching halt). So he turns to his mistress and one time confidante. I get that. Or he's playing her, which is also easy enough to get behind, but I can understand if he's just become so isolated and desperate and needs/wants her.

I give this show a lot of leeway when it comes to fantasy law, but there is no way that any judge would have allowed the DA to put a bug in a defense attorney's practice and potentially ruin privilege for every case Annalise has. A judge might have allowed a wire tap on Annalise's phone and definitely would have allowed one on the Hapstall's phone. But a general bug picking up everything? Bullshit.

Pretty sure she did that on her own/ without judicial sanction.

Also, it won't be a coincidence that it was in the pen. The files' provenance is clear. The pen would be a lot harder to prove.

I really don't understand how if their plan is to pin this on Philip, how do they expect to get away with hacking him? And if the investigation turns to Philip, they're very quickly going to find out that the police records regarding him are falsified. I don't get how they think things will work out in their favour.

I don't think they plan to pin this on Philip. I think they consider him an actual (and probable) suspect in the Hapstall murders, and if pressed (i.e. the siblings are taken to court) they would offer him as part of an alternate narrative of events. But either way, they don't need to prove it, just create reasonable doubt.

If Philip is more closely examined by TPTB and claims "foul" on Anna & co.'s parts, this too doesn't matter much, because he's now a very suspicious character and less likely to be believed. And all they've done is hack him, and it would need to be proven.

As to Nate's document editing - if he's smart, he changed it back once the detectives left. This wasn't something they needed in the system longer term, they just needed to forestall anyone acting on Philip's information at that point in time. Changing the info back will make it pretty damn hard to find in the system later. (searches by his name will yield no results, searches by schizophrenia will yield nothing similar to his name, so they're unlikely to notice the record that they looked at unless they examine it one by one. not gonna happen.) The assumption will be user error, and it would probably get left at that. I also don't think he logged in to the computer. You don't need to hack a system if you can hack its users. Keep in mind that this is a system he himself worked in and with until recently with precisely the users still using it. You know who goes for a cigarette or coffee without logging out, and how to quickly find the data you need once in the system. He inconspicuously walked in in plain clothes on his day off.

And the more secure a system is supposed to be, the more frequently they force users to change their passwords, and the equally less probable that anyone (certainly over 50) remembers them. Within two minutes of sitting at an average desk in that environment, you'll probably find the post-it with the current password on it.

Yes, yes, plot twists and shirtless men, but the most important revelation to me was that Connor thinks you can destroy a hard drive by hitting the keyboard and screen with a hammer.

It's a question of inertia. He doesn't need to have destroyed the drive, he just needs to have given Ollie enough of a push that he stops trying to think of what to save off his computer and instead will do what needs to be done.

[Dowel Jones]

I would have loved to see the expressions on Annalise's and the Scooby Doofuses' faces if the DA's squad had inadvertently discovered the pistol during their search.  Yeah, it would mean an entirely different plotline, but...

[Chicago Redshirt]

I know that they don't have to prove Philip is guilty in order to get Caleb and Catherine acquitted, but with DNA evidence she'd have to know that there would be an official investigation into Philip, possibly culminating in him being charged and going to trial himself. In this investigation that will inevitably occur, I don't understand how they think that none of this illegal stuff that they have done with respect to Philip will come to light.

The thing is, there's no guarantee of an official investigation into Philip, nor of him being tried. He too has an instant defense that the prosecution has spent a year or whatever suspecting Caleb and Catherine. There will be instant reasonable doubt because of the rush to judgment in this case. The prosecution has probably screwed their chances of convicting anyone.

 

In any case, Anni may be counting on either the prosecution's ineptitude or its lack of follow-through.

 

For instance, it spent a ton of time focusing on Rebecca as a murder suspect. As far as we know, no one official has noticed that she has disappeared. 

 

ETA:  After turning it over in my mind, I wonder if, now that they've established that Papa Hapstall abused his sister, if perhaps he might have also abused Catherine.  Which might explain her willingness to go along with killing him, even without involving some illicit relationship with Philip.

I know that power dynamics around incest makes it improbable that one can "consent" in a meaningful way to incest, but I don't think the show has established if Papa Hapstall had an abusive relationship with Racist Aunt, or if they were willing lovers or what.

 

It's pretty amazing that we have gotten this far in the season and we don't really know much about the Hapstalls at all. I feel like we knew more about Lila at this point.

 

 

Also, pretty sure they aren't hooking up, because Catherine passed the virginity test a few eps back.

 

Cobbler Effect! There was definitely speculation that a) Catherine put the fix on the virginity test or b) Catherine could have preserved her vaginal virginity by engaging in other sexual behavior.

 

Apologies for grossing people out with this post in advance.

[marina707]

I think the "Oliver in danger" thing was wrapped up a little too quickly, but I agree that he probably didn't know at the time what was going to happen and purposely left the spilled milk/phone as clues to let Connor know that he didn't just run to the store or whatever and something was actually wrong.

 

I didn't quite get the painting that Catherine gave to Wes, either, but I definitely got the impression that it was supposed to be him and his parents, though I don't know how she would've known what they looked like. I don't think we're supposed to think about it too much, though, since it seemed to be just a way for Wes to realize that Philip had a similar painting, and therefore must know Catherine.

 

Caleb being in on it with Catherine and Philip and manipulating Michaela hadn't even occurred to me until this thread, but the way this show is, it definitely seems possible.
 
And I know this is a dumb thing to be annoyed by considering everything else that's going on in the show, but...wasn't there a scene where Caleb told Michaela that he and Catherine were "in love"? (Maybe I imagined it, since it hasn't been mentioned since, but I could've sworn that scene happened.) Given that, I find it kind of strange how Michaela's pursued him. I know it's weird that it's his sister, and maybe in Michaela's mind it "didn't count" because of that, but it still seems kind of...not cool to me to go after someone who's told you that they're in love with someone else.
 

I know that power dynamics around incest makes it improbable that one can "consent" in a meaningful way to incest, but I don't think the show has established if Papa Hapstall had an abusive relationship with Racist Aunt, or if they were willing lovers or what.

 
It's hard to know for sure, but I tend to think consent existing between siblings would be much more likely than a parent and child (I mean an adult child; obviously with an actual child it's not even a question) or something where there's DEFINITELY a power imbalance. But yeah, I'm pretty sure the show hasn't established whether the Hapstall Dad/Racist Aunt relationship was consensual or not.
 
It wouldn't surprise me, though, if like other people have speculated, he abused her and was also abusing Catherine, and that was the motive for the murder. I can't remember how the crime scene was laid out or if it would fit with this theory, but I could see Catherine planning on only killing the dad, and the mom walked in, and she panicked and killed her, too. Or maybe the plan was always to kill both, the dad because he abused her, and the mom because she knew about it and didn't do anything?

Edited November 15, 2015 by marina85

[jhlipton]

The bribing of the DNA lab woman was stupid.  The DA deliberately swamped the lab so that sample wouldn't be tested.  When it came back so quickly, the first thing they'd do is find out who did the test.  $50,000 moving through her accounts is going to raise a huge red flag.  She would have been fired as soon as she tried to spend the money, or put it in her bank account.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I think you are overestimating the skill of the Murderverse authorities and/or underestimating the shadiness of Frank. Granted, simply showing up with $50k in cash to someone's workplace is less than subtle and created the obvious potential for a bunch of co-workers to see. But as long as he told her not to be stupid and to use the entire $50k as a down payment for a home or something, he probably could teach her not to get caught simply by spending the money. If he follows up and has her move to his relative's building, she can start to launder the $50k by paying him it in rent.

 

The Murderverse authorities often seem to miss basic facts, such as Lila's being pregnant, Lila's having called Sam shortly before her death, etc. And also they seem nearly incapable of proving theories that are true, such as Eve and Anni being more than just acquaintances or Nate killing his wife.

Presumably any DNA analysis would say that Bribee ran it. She just has to come up with a reasonable reason why she ran that one rather than the 300 that DA Smugface put in the queue or the other existing work. I'm sure that would not be that hard to do. And even if it is not, well, there is nothing illegal about running sample Z before sample A without the link to the cash.

[secnarf]

The thing is, there's no guarantee of an official investigation into Philip, nor of him being tried. He too has an instant defense that the prosecution has spent a year or whatever suspecting Caleb and Catherine. There will be instant reasonable doubt because of the rush to judgment in this case. The prosecution has probably screwed their chances of convicting anyone.

 

In any case, Anni may be counting on either the prosecution's ineptitude or its lack of follow-through.

 

For instance, it spent a ton of time focusing on Rebecca as a murder suspect. As far as we know, no one official has noticed that she has disappeared. 

 

Annalise said that an investigation has already been opened, thanks to the DNA results. I find it hard to believe that nobody foresaw this possibility, and that now that it is happening that they're not the least bit concerned.

And despite spending a lot of time on Rebecca and Griffin as suspects in Lila's murder, that doesn't mean that when new evidence came to light they would have been unable to charge Sam. I don't think new DNA evidence is negated just because they had spent a lot of time accusing Catherine and Caleb of murder with only speculation as evidence, and the testimony of a racist who also happens to be the biological mother of the new suspect.

 

I think nobody "official" realizes that Rebecca has disappeared is because her case was over. I don't remember if she was formally acquitted or if the charges were dropped when Sam became a much better suspect, but the case has pretty much hit a dead end since then because Sam is dead and therefore can't be charged. They'd have no reason to know or care where Rebecca is.

 

I will reserve judgement until seeing the finale, but the issue with the investigation into Philip, as well as this left field relationship between Philip and Catherine, have made so little sense to me that it is detracting from my ability to actually get involved in the storyline. They better come up with really convincing explanations, because I can't suspend disbelief that much.

[starri]

I still can't quite believe they slipped "You taste like my sauce" past ABC's Standards and Practices.