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Leon Brown: So Here's Me


Pallas
Message added by Scarlett45,

Leon is transgender and uses they/them pronouns. As defined in the GLAAD guidelines, they are a they, were a they, and will be a they unless they ever tell us something different.  Per those guidelines, referring to them as a woman or a girl or as she is not okay, regardless of any modifier placed before these words or the time period being discussed.  Referring to them by any name besides "Leon" or "Leo" is not appropriate, regardless of the time period being discussed. Intent matters and people may slip up. Let's strive to respect their identity.

Please review the guidelines of the site regarding the Hate Speech and Insensitive Language Policy, which includes guidelines from GLAAD for the LGBTQ+ community.

Also remember the Golden Rule of Primetimer is Be Civil.

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34 minutes ago, Adiba said:

Yeah, I noticed that, too. Also, when you click on the Instagram link the video has the song, “A Man Without Love” by Englebert Humperdink, playing.  Interesting choice of music— but it may not mean anything at all.

I do find it interesting that Audrey is transitioning more masculine with the hormones and top surgery than I originally thought they would as non-binary. I realize that one could be more masculine-presenting while still identifying as non-binary, but as @LilyD posted above, I ‘m a little surprised Audrey took the more drastic permanent step of top surgery.

At any rate, I hope Audrey is happy with her decision and her transition journey.

I accidentally used the wrong pronoun for Audrey. I corrected it in my original post.  I have to be more careful.  Audrey has requested they be used, is that right? 

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54 minutes ago, LilyD said:

That depression could have been caused by an inner struggle: “who am I? What or who do I want to be? Can I ever really be who or what I want to be?” This is a brave step and not an easy one. 

Of course it's a highly likely cause.  

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18 minutes ago, monagatuna said:

Yes, I think you're right (to be fair: everyone's journey and preferences are different so by affirming your assumption I run the risk of being wrong too, but I do think you have it right). Audrey can be their name, while they use they-them pronouns and present as masc (Audrey, recently, when coming out has indicated that they are NB/masc presenting). So while they do not identify as a man or woman, they can still use a name that most cis people would identify as female, while sporting secondary sex characteristics, like facial hair, that most cis people would attach to men. It's part of the beauty of not identifying with a binary; they can take what they like from each gender (or take nothing at all) and make their experience very much their own.

So many people on these boards have made a real effort to look past their own biases and explicitly worked to respect Audrey's pronouns, and asked honest questions, while very pointedly avoiding insulting anyone or making jokes at anyone's expense, and it makes me so proud to post among you all. <3

I have had problems understanding non binary I could not wrap my head around not identifying as neither male or female but you just did a fantastic job of explaining it. Thank you. I still am having a problem with they/ them...not because I think it is wrong...just when I see those pronouns I 'look'  for two or more people. 

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1 hour ago, crazycatlady58 said:

I have had problems understanding non binary I could not wrap my head around not identifying as neither male or female but you just did a fantastic job of explaining it. Thank you. I still am having a problem with they/ them...not because I think it is wrong...just when I see those pronouns I 'look'  for two or more people. 

Me too. I cannot wrap my head around why anyone would identify as non-binary. However, I also cannot wrap my head around physics. Just because I don't understand something, doesn't mean it isn't true. I will continue to learn and grow and be accepting of others as they travel through this world. 

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14 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

I have had problems understanding non binary I could not wrap my head around not identifying as neither male or female but you just did a fantastic job of explaining it. Thank you. I still am having a problem with they/ them...not because I think it is wrong...just when I see those pronouns I 'look'  for two or more people. 

I work as a writer/editor and the publication I work for has been using they/them profiles for a few years now unless it is specifically a he or a she. It took a minute for me as a grammarian to get used to the singular they/them, but now it feels natural. Language evolves.

We have both non-binary and transgender members in our close/immediate family, so that probably helped--but I still wind up having to edit it in a lot of our content for people who are less familiar with it. For me, the biggest transition has been not accidentally referring to our daughter by her dead name. Not because we don't respect who she is, but rather because for 22 years we called her by a different name and so it's ingrained. I try to be very conscious when speaking to/of her. It took probably a year before I didn't have to think really hard while I spoke. 

Edited by NoWhammies
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12 hours ago, BAForever said:

Me too. I cannot wrap my head around why anyone would identify as non-binary. However, I also cannot wrap my head around physics. Just because I don't understand something, doesn't mean it isn't true. I will continue to learn and grow and be accepting of others as they travel through this world. 

I understand. We all run our conditioned "programs" in our minds. We begin to gender children even before they are born. We make a big deal of announcing that gender. When I was having babies, we even bought specific wardrobe colors and made decor choices based on that gender. We have poetry about what little girls and little boys are made of. We have gender expectations and biases in our education system (less so now, but still I suspect there are some). We have gender disparity in sports, the workplace, and, well, pretty much everywhere. We classify so much into gender in our minds and in our lives. Humanity has millennia of conditioning about gender expectations, gender roles, gender expression, and more. Labels and conditioning are very powerful things. It takes significant effort to overcome them, but what matters is we make the effort. 

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7 hours ago, questionfear said:

I am going to attempt to answer this, and mods, if this is better taken to a small talk topic I apologize-not sure where it would be best to respond to this. 

I'm non-binary, with a leaning towards transmasculine, so I think (again, without knowing them) that I have some common ground here with Audrey. I can't speak for Audrey but I can say how I feel about gender. I grew up in the 80s/90s, and we never discussed gender. Sexuality was barely discussed. So when I was a teenager and determined I definitely liked girls, it was a logical leap to determine I was obviously a lesbian. But I never felt super comfy in the butch lesbian label, and had a very hard time throughout the years anytime I had to express femininity or discuss being female. It just didn't feel good or right, but it wasn't until the pandemic that I was able to sort through all that. 

The triggering factor for me was that I was consistently getting called sir anytime I wore a mask, and I kept mentioning it to my therapist, who finally said "this comes up a lot for you...maybe you want to talk about it?" and that set off the discussion for me as far as dysphoria that I'd basically tried to ignore for years. 

I've settled on this idea of non-binary transmasculine because I feel like it bridges all the parts of me. I spent 25 years identifying as a lesbian, I spent 40 years being socialized as female...those things don't evaporate because I've realized I don't feel right in that body. So while I recognize that as I move forward I'm going to be seen and perceived as male, I know that who I am is a composite of a lot more than the binary. 

It feels very likely/plausible that Audrey has a similar outlook-their life before embracing how they felt inside doesn't disappear because they're presenting masculine. And that's ok. Gender is not always a simple black and white. 

As far as Audrey's surgery and apparent hormone use, please note that it's not as simple as calling up a surgeon and endocrinologist. Top surgery typically requires AT LEAST one letter from a mental health professional and a clinical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and depending on insurance there can be more hoops than that. So it's not something anyone does on a whim, and they're generally evaluated thoroughly prior to the approval. Do people regret surgeries? Sure, sometimes people do. But I highly doubt that just because Audrey is coming at this later in life that they're unsure of who they are. 

It's also really common to come into a gender identity later in life. This isn't an easy thing. If you're curious about someone who struggled with this in their 30s, you should read Danny Lavery's book "Something that may shock and discredit you." It's a series of essays he's written that mostly deal with his transition, and in one he talks about the struggle with feeling like every woman hates their body, so it's not gender dysphoria, it's normal, etc., he must just be confused...I think I underlined 1/4 of that book because so much of it spoke to me, especially when he (paraphrasing) talks about how he's been and could continue to be a good woman, and how he could easily be a good man, and how both paths are open to him. 

Again, I don't know Audrey, so I'm obviously projecting some of my own struggles onto what they've shared. But hopefully this helps shed some small amount of insight, and again, mods, if you'd prefer I'm happy to take this discussion to small talk to address it further. 

I also thank you.  Different but similar is when Sweet son came out about 25 years ago.  times were different and we loved him regardless but he didn't know we would.  But everyone's journey is personal to them and my wish always is that however we are, we can live an authentic life surrounded by people who love us no matter what.  And the more people who tell their stories, the better.  One woman told me recently she doesn't know any gay people and also doesn't "approve of their lifestyle". What????  I told her she did know gay people, she just didn't know it.  Another story for another time. 

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(edited)

I know gay, lesbian and trans people, but I also know a woman who had her breasts removed not because she had cancer or was trans,  but because she didn't identify with either gender and the breasts got in the way.  She felt great relief to be flat again, free, like a 10-yr old and still goes by "she" (not they) and dresses for comfort in a gender neutral way. Some clothes are "men's", other "women's", whatever fits correctly.

Edited by deirdra
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My DD has the most wonderful wife and they have 3 beautiful children. I love them all to bits and would defend their decisions to my death. We all have to live the life that makes us happy and fulfilled wherever that takes us. 

I hope Audrey and Mariah can find the happiness my DD has and have a happy life together.

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6 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

I also thank you.  Different but similar is when Sweet son came out about 25 years ago.  times were different and we loved him regardless but he didn't know we would.  But everyone's journey is personal to them and my wish always is that however we are, we can live an authentic life surrounded by people who love us no matter what.  And the more people who tell their stories, the better.  One woman told me recently she doesn't know any gay people and also doesn't "approve of their lifestyle". What????  I told her she did know gay people, she just didn't know it.  Another story for another time. 

Exactly…. she doesn’t know any gay people because of her intolerance… if I was gay I probably wouldn’t want to come out to someone like that either! 🙄

She’s missing out, I don’t have a lot of gay friends but the ones I do have are such nice people and I appreciate their friendship. ❤️

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On 5/24/2022 at 6:34 AM, Joan of Argh said:

Exactly…. she doesn’t know any gay people because of her intolerance… if I was gay I probably wouldn’t want to come out to someone like that either! 🙄

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. (Martin Luther King, and I guess very fitting in this context)

When you think of it, it was actually incredibly brave of Mariah to make that confession back then. There was every chance of being cast out because of the beliefs in her family.

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On 5/26/2022 at 9:36 PM, Ms.Lulu said:

They seem so happy!  I am glad Audrey is able to share their true self.

Fun fact, testosterone is fairly powerful for combating depression. Not only are they finding their true self, they are probably balancing some things that were unbalanced with the use of daily T. Happy for them!

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Well they seem happy.  In that family it is a bonus.  Maybe they don't dress/act like I would, and the preachy stuff seems to have stopped so I hope they are happy and can have productive lives.  

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Mariah’s weight has fluctuated as have a lot of the Browns, but her clothing makes it worse because that is one of the most ill-fitting shirts I’ve ever seen.  I don’t know if it’s a T-shirt or suppose to be a compression shirt, but she’d probably look better if she just wore clothes that fit.  It’s like Meri wearing her too tight too small toddler vest.  The bag strap cutting across her chest doesn’t help, but I’ve given up on most of the Browns making good fashion choices.

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In the post Mariah says they’re moving to Colorado with their besties… I wonder if they’re planning on living together?

I can’t imagine living in the same house with Princess Mariah.

and enough of the squinty eyed shit eating grins already, we get it you’re SUPER HAPPY!!!!! 

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45 minutes ago, Irate Panda said:

Mariah’s weight has fluctuated as have a lot of the Browns, but her clothing makes it worse because that is one of the most ill-fitting shirts I’ve ever seen.  I don’t know if it’s a T-shirt or suppose to be a compression shirt, but she’d probably look better if she just wore clothes that fit.  It’s like Meri wearing her too tight too small toddler vest.  The bag strap cutting across her chest doesn’t help, but I’ve given up on most of the Browns making good fashion choices.

I wouldn’t call this “fluctuating” If anything, this is “expanding at an alarming rate”. 
We seem to agree out here that this is mainly due to very poor lifestyle choices, but it’s time she wakes up. If she continues to gain like this, she’ll have huge medical issues by the time she’s 35 and very lucky if her heart lasts to her 50th birthday.

Is it just me who has this feeling that she doesn’t seem to care how she looks and what she does to her body? I kind of feel if she is trying to self-destruct…

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6 hours ago, LilyD said:

I wouldn’t call this “fluctuating” If anything, this is “expanding at an alarming rate”. 
We seem to agree out here that this is mainly due to very poor lifestyle choices, but it’s time she wakes up. If she continues to gain like this, she’ll have huge medical issues by the time she’s 35 and very lucky if her heart lasts to her 50th birthday.

Is it just me who has this feeling that she doesn’t seem to care how she looks and what she does to her body? I kind of feel if she is trying to self-destruct…

Certainly a far cry from the wellness-embracing version of Mariah we saw in Bali.

Maybe it’s how she presents herself these days that’s causing me to imagine her smoking her brains away with weed when she gets to Denver. That skunky shit is everywhere in CO and half the population seems mentally off-planet (or at least did when I had to travel to CO for work/training). 

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On 6/7/2022 at 7:01 AM, LilyD said:

I wouldn’t call this “fluctuating” If anything, this is “expanding at an alarming rate”. 
We seem to agree out here that this is mainly due to very poor lifestyle choices, but it’s time she wakes up. If she continues to gain like this, she’ll have huge medical issues by the time she’s 35 and very lucky if her heart lasts to her 50th birthday.

Is it just me who has this feeling that she doesn’t seem to care how she looks and what she does to her body? I kind of feel if she is trying to self-destruct…

There could be some self-loathing going on, or it could be her way of pushing back against female beauty norms and expectations, which may or may not have roots in the patriarchy. Some queer women are disinterested in presenting in any way that might be appreciated by the male gaze (or even the straight gaze) as a way of saying "most everything in this world is for you, but my body is not one of those things". It's also a way of sexual signalling, virtue signaling, etc, no different from the ways in which we all present who we are every single day. 

If she's being her most authentic self and truly happy in her own skin, good for her. It's not the way many of us would want to look, or dress in public, or be immortalized on social media, but it's her life, her health, her expression and her truth. I suspect Mariah and Audrey are enjoying living their most authentic lives right now and truly don't care if others don't like it. That's a feat for most people, with the constant bombardment of social media "norms" and expectations of how they should look and act. I'm grateful social media was in its infancy when I was their age. 

(I know we're a pretty accepting bunch here and probably a lot of you feel this way about her and Audrey, and lesbians please tell me if I'm totally off base.)

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I can't imagine growing up and feeling like I was born into the wrong body. I know us women all have those days where we don't feel "pretty" or are having a bad hair day, or our cloths are not fitting right etc. I guess what surprised me about Audrey is that when she came into Mariah's life, she looked very feminine, had pretty hair and wore makeup and dressed like most college age people do. I would think that she would have not done that, but again I could be wrong, maybe she was afraid or hiding what she felt inside? 

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16 hours ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

I can't imagine growing up and feeling like I was born into the wrong body. I know us women all have those days where we don't feel "pretty" or are having a bad hair day, or our cloths are not fitting right etc. I guess what surprised me about Audrey is that when she came into Mariah's life, she looked very feminine, had pretty hair and wore makeup and dressed like most college age people do. I would think that she would have not done that, but again I could be wrong, maybe she was afraid or hiding what she felt inside? 

It's extremely common for people to overcompensate and lean into gender stereotypes to avoid dealing with their feelings of disconnect-sort of a "if being my birth gender already feels like a mask, I'll go all-in on it" approach. 

Not everyone does this, but it's definitely an experience I know some people have had. 

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10 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

Mariah sadly appears obese in the video (where she’s sitting wearing all black). That can’t feel good, no matter how much body positivity she tries to throw at it. She may believe she’s happy, but hardly anyone feels good that at that size. 

Dog’s cute. 

Mariah is probably figuring out her own identity as Audj transitions. She was brought up to be CIS, came out as a lesbian and later as a trans ally, but who is she for herself - still a lesbian or gender fluid or genderfae? It is good that they have spent most of the past 3 years out of the public eye to figure out who they are.

The new dog is cute and in one video cute little Mosby is running around with the big dogs thinking he is one of them.

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18 hours ago, deirdra said:

The new dog is cute and in one video cute little Mosby is running around with the big dogs thinking he is one of them.

Mosby is my favorite Brown!  Did they ever say where Audrey is from, is she from Utah too and did she grow up Mormon too?

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Audrey is posting so much more recently. I hope that’s due to real happiness.

I don’t watch, I just see clips now and then. How long has it been since they have been on the show?

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11 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Audrey is posting so much more recently. I hope that’s due to real happiness.

I don’t watch, I just see clips now and then. How long has it been since they have been on the show?

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Last I recall of them on the show was when Bonnie passed.  They stayed over with Meri for a few days enroute to Lizzie's to take over running the place until Jenn stepped in to manage it.

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23 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Audrey is posting so much more recently. I hope that’s due to real happiness.

I don’t watch, I just see clips now and then. How long has it been since they have been on the show?

A6BD3A21-8288-494C-B9A2-91757715982A.jpeg

Not a fan of their squinty faces, but I like Mariah's sandals, and the blow up unicorns are sort of cute.  They look happy together.

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1 hour ago, xwordfanatik said:

Not a fan of their squinty faces, but I like Mariah's sandals, and the blow up unicorns are sort of cute.  They look happy together.

Odd staging of the photo, it looks like Mariah has grown a rainbow tail.

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4 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

That is so incredibly tacky, even for a family that sets the bar low. 

Wow that is low! They think they are so entitled to anything they want. Unfricking believable!

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And here I thought entitled Princess Snowflake would become more like Audrey.  Looks like Audrey has turned grifter, and that is sad to see.  When so many people are struggling, that is an incredibly tone-deaf post to make, even in jest!

Why wouldn't they advocate donating to a worthy LBGTQ cause that would help the less fortunate?  

Reddit says they took the post down.  I hope they got negative comments, they should have.

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3 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Saw this while I was at work and took a screenshot. Now it’s not up anymore.

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That’s so trifling 🙄 Don’t they have jobs or is the Bank of Meri now closed?  Just plain tacky!

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