The Annual Academy Awards - General Discussion

[susannah]

2 minutes ago, debbie311 said:

I have a husband who wears hearing aids due to hearing loss, and let me tell you, it IS a disability if he does not wear them. Hearing aids are VERY expensive, but the deaf community does not want hearing loss to be considered a disability, so there is really no help for the payment of hearing aids.

I didn't know that the deaf community had control over whether hearing aids were covered by insurance. I have had hearing loss in both ears since birth, but have never had hearing aids, and I KNOW what it is like not to be able to hear well, to have to ask people to repeat themselves, sometimes to their annoyance, to have to guess at what people are saying or just not know, to have to rely on closed captions on any production that is likely to have accents, etc, and it has all gotten worse as I have gotten older. Whenever I  had a cold, it was like game over! I personally think that it is a little insane that some people in the community think that having hearing loss or profound deafness is desirable, opposing cochlear implants that could help with hearing, even for their children, and apparently, fighting the coverage of hearing aids. Believe me, if I could trade it for female baldness, I would do it in half a second, and buy some caps and scarves. I have heard that wigs can itch! Having hearing loss does not make me lesser, not does it any other in the community, but it does make life difficult. I still live it though!

[Irate Panda]

I don’t particularly care for the Smith family because I think they tell the world too much of their personal business and don’t think Will should have put his hands on Chris.  

With that said I think Chris continually going after this same couple with multiple jokes, making fun of a side effect of a health condition (whether he knew it at the time I don’t know) and I’ll throw in since it was brought up in something I read early, the policing of/“joking” of an African-American’s woman hair on international television in a primarily white space wasn’t anywhere close to necessary.  

Chris made a whole ass movie about hair in the Black community.  I’m sure he at least knew that spect if it.  I’m a POC of color (mostly Polynesian and Japanese) and didn’t think of that aspect until I read something about it, and I don’t pretend I know what Jada or Will was thinking but I do think there could have been layers to it that I personally hadn’t taken into consideration.  On top of everything the “joke” was stupid and stale. I don’t know if Chris wrote it or the writers but it wasn’t needed.  Do I think Chris should have been hit, no, do I think he should have known better, yes.

On the topic of is alopecia a disability, I think we are kidding ourselves if we don’t think it’s possible it could have devastating emotional and psychological effects on someone’s mental health.

As far as Will giving back his Oscar, the Academy has whole ass rapists, pedophiles, and God knows what else as winners so them clawing back and Oscar for a slap between two grown men is laughable.

Chris has every right to press charges though I doubt he will and Will should have apologized last night. I feel bad for the guy that won after that nonsense and feel bad that the Williams’ sisters film was marred again by an idiot just a week or two after having to deal with that idiot director that made stupid remarks while accepting her award.  I’m not equating the two incidents, I’m just pointing out they can’t ever seem to enjoy the fruits of the labor without some nonsense happening.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Irate Panda
Part of my post was cutoff

[Danielg342]

I know I'm late to the party on this, but a few thoughts on Smith vs. Rock:

1. Will Smith and Chris Rock were both in the wrong. I think that's clear and obvious and I won't belabour the point past what it already has.
2. That Will laughed at the G.I. Jane joke was no indication that he liked it. Laughter can be a defensive mechanism, a tool to calm after experiencing or hearing something uncomfortable. It obviously didn't calm him enough to stop him from wanting to slap Rock (I'm sure once he realized Jada Pinkett-Smith wasn't laughing Will went back into rage mode), but it's still no indicator to me that Will liked the joke.
3. Someone upthread wondered if Will could "get away" with what he did if that was Amy Schumer making the G.I. Jane joke instead of Rock. I have wondered the same thing, and there's no way better to point out the double standard on the reaction to the incident (outside of this forum, because I don't think anyone here is letting Will off the hook). Chris Rock sure is no less of a victim just because he is a male.

What really gets me- beyond all the "in the moment" stuff and, likely, Will Smith and Chris Rock (and, to an extent, Jada Pinkett-Smith too) not realizing the full impact of what they were doing when they did what they did- is that Will, Jada and Rock are all veterans of the Hollywood circuit. I mean, I'm not sure how close the Smiths are to Rock, but I would imagine they've at least gotten to know each other over the years and they're at least cordial with each other. I mean, Will Smith and Chris Rock had an extended scene together on The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air in 1995, 27 years ago, on Will's flagship TV show, no less. Now, perhaps the fact that Smith and Rock didn't collaborate again after that (according to IMDB) may mean something, but it at least shows that Smith and Rock are not strangers to each other.

So, if I was Rock, I don't know why I would even attempt to make that kind of joke about Jada's hair. I don't believe Jada has, at all, been keeping her issue with alopecia a secret from the public, so I doubt she would keep it a secret from those she would actually talk to, like Chris Rock.

Meaning unless I was sure Jada was going to take the joke well, I wouldn't even try it. Maybe it doesn't make it less tasteless, but at least if the recipient appreciates it, I could at least point to that as a mitigating factor as well as remain in the recipient's good graces.

Conversely, Will and Jada have to remember who's on stage roasting them. This ain't some young whipper-snapper, "flavour of the year" comic thrust into the Academy spotlight because they had an unexpected hit- it's Chris Rock. Someone who I doubt would really want to wreck his career by making a joke he truly would believe would sour the Hollywood community on him, let alone make one that would rankle a respected Hollywood couple like Will and Jada Pinkett-Smith. Even though the joke was a flop, Will and Jada should have at least been aware it didn't come with malicious intentions.

It's been said before, but if Will and Jada had an issue with Rock's joke, the time do it would have been backstage or at a party where they can coolly talk about it and Rock can realize he did cross the line. At the same time that Rock should know what jokes would fly with the Smiths and which ones won't, the Smiths have to understand that Rock surely meant no harm and they should have given him the opportunity to own up to his mistake without embarrassing him like they actually did.

All told, regardless of the feelings the two camps may have for each other, there was a mutual respect both sides should have had for each other that needed to be on display at the Oscars and it was nowhere to be found.

[BuckeyeLou]

3 hours ago, stonehaven said:

Maybe I'm weird but the whole notion of it being some kind of holy act in "I'm standing Up For m wife" is such bullshit in this day and age. Women don't need men to "protect or stand up for us". That implies weakness on our parts and also we'll let someone else do the dirty work.  It reinforces the notion that men STILL have to make the choices for us. If Jada was pissed, she should have gone onstage and slapped him. I could almost agree with that but Will defending Jada's honor and protecting her from a joke??? A joke??? Chris didn't physically or verbally assault her but a joke was made at her expense and she needs protecting from that?

I would also add the thought of Will not being the best role model for his kids but that ship sailed long ago.....

It's not even 24 hours and I'm already sick of talking and thinknig about it....

 

Thank You for pointing this out...from what I have seen & heard from Jada, she is a strong woman with strong opinions, she is a 'tough little lady"...so I dont think she needed anyone(even her husband) to protect her 'honor".  Will should have let Jada roll her eyes & he could have made a comment to Chris at an after-party. 

[Shorty186]

1 hour ago, MerBearHou said:

Someone made him write this.  Academy and his publicist team.  It is good to see an apology but it is way too late.

Mmm, more like some hired hand reset his IG password, posted the "apology" then told Will to reset his password again.

[CountryGirl]

Chris’ comparing Jada’s boycotting the Oscars (because of her desire to support more diversity at awards ceremonies, the Oscars, especially) to Rihanna’s panties was not humorous in the slightest. Obviously MMV. 

[Racj82]

After listening to some more people talk about the incident, I heard some interesting things.

One was the opinion that Will and Jada were already done with all the jokes. But, Chris being a man, allowed them to channel it. Neither one of them were going to come at Hall like that. But, they felt they could with Chris.

Chris did make the harsh jab about Jada boycotting the oscars when she wasn't invited years ago. I bet she's never forgot that one. Beyond that I'm not here for acting like Rock had it out for them. The Smiths have been making themselves joke fodder for years. They are easy targets. It's not really a Rock thing.

The notion that this stuff just isn't fun anymore. The Oscars keep trying to find a new winning formula while breaking so many other things in the process. There used to be a sense of joy that is lacking now. It's also not a place for comedy anymore. Ignore Rock. There are several other jokes taken to task. That's fine. But, it also speaks to the future where this show is sanitized to hell in a effort to appease everyone.

 

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

The notion that this stuff just isn't fun anymore. The Oscars keep trying to find a new winning formula while breaking so many other things in the process. There used to be a sense of joy that is lacking now. It's also not a place for comedy anymore. Ignore Rock. There are several other jokes taken to task. That's fine. But, it also speaks to the future where this show is sanitized to hell in a effort to appease everyone.

 

Well I remember the Oscars being boring for ... basically forever. It's always been the most boring major award show.

The Grammy's and Tony's are basically a glorified concert masquerading as an Awards show.

The Golden Globes were a freewheeling drunk-fest. Nobody took them seriously but you did get to see stars acting "themselves."

The SAGs are fun in that they kind of predict the Oscars, and it's more of an industry insider event. 

The Oscars? Always a glorified fashion show, but the fashions tended to be boring and staid. This year the trend seemed to be tight red dresses with cut-out breast areas. Remember the year everyone showed up in some shade of taupe?

The stars have been fasting for two months straight. They're hungry, they're tired of saying the same things to the same reporters. They act sullen and over it.

[Ohiopirate02]

37 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

 

I thought the Judi Dench joke was a play on something Kim Kardashian said recently, juxtaposed with Dench’s actual history. And I thought it was very funny and not at all disrespectful (except maybe to KK). Did I misunderstand that whole thing?

It was totally a dig at Kim and her completely out of touch comment.  It worked because of Judi's long list of roles and it was punching up. 

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, debbie311 said:

I know nothing about alopecia, but I have to wonder why if she is sensitive about it, why she didn't wear a wig (which she most certainly can afford a good one), or a pretty turban, at least for the time that she was going to be on international television.

 

Because she has been open about trying to come to terms with the body she has. That doesn’t stop it from being hurtful when someone points out a flaw* and people laugh at it.

I need glasses and as soon as I could I switched to contacts out of insecurity. It took me years to not feel extremely self-conscious when I wear glasses. I still have contacts but made a deliberate choice to to switch back to glasses because it is easier and I didn’t like being ashamed of who I am. If someone was to make a joke about them it would probably shake my confidence considerably and make me feel like shit. Fortunately, most adults know not to make jokes about your physical appearance to your face. Sadly, not everyone thinks about other's feelings which Rock perfectly demonstrated.

* I meant from her perspective. I don’t consider it a flaw. 

28 minutes ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Thank You for pointing this out...from what I have seen & heard from Jada, she is a strong woman with strong opinions, she is a 'tough little lady"...so I dont think she needed anyone(even her husband) to protect her 'honor".  Will should have let Jada roll her eyes & he could have made a comment to Chris at an after-party. 

Yes!  And when Chris made his joke about her when he hosted before she issued a statement in response. She has an entire web show where she could say her piece. Hell, Will could have made a pointed comment in his acceptance speech (or in an interview afterwards if he didn’t win) about how Jada has inspired him with how she deals with her health struggles. Instead, he actually put Jada in a harsher spotlight where everyone is dissecting her and a lot of people online are just using it to bash her as a cheater. Nice job “protecting your wife”.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Guest

[SoMuchTV]

Concerning the appropriateness of Chris Rock’s jokes:  on the one hand, even if he knew about her medical status, she was clearly owning and rocking the bald look, and he compared her to a badass character in a not-negative way. On the other hand, given his history of digs at her, I can see why she wouldn’t be pleased.

But - was nobody bothered by the joke he told just prior? About Javier and Penelope both being nominated, and he couldn’t win if she didn’t, because wives, amiright? I thought that was at least as insulting but it seemed to roll right over everyone. 

[kittykat]

A few non Slapgate observations AKA how do they fix the show?

I agree with those up thread that the In Memoriam needs to change.  Instead of near the end leading into the Big Four, put it at the beginning of the show.  Before the nights festivities kick off here's who we lost.  Eliminate the live performer or keep it to an intimate performance.  The year Sara Bareilles performed was probably the closest they got to achieving the right balance of tribute and performance.

EVERY WINNER DESERVES THEIR LIVE MOMENT!  Put the eliminated eight back in.  I also think the Honorary Oscars should be moved back to the Prime telecast.  I don't need another damn montage but I would have liked to see the careers of Samuel L Jackson, Elaine May, Danny Glover and Liv Ullmann recognized.

If they really really really want to honor films of the past do a quarter quell where they pick a few films that were nominated/won Best Picture 25, 50 and 75 years ago do a small little homage maybe get a few stars (likely not with the 75) from said films like they did last night with the Pulp Fiction reunion.  End of two cents.

[kib]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

My boyfriend and I were discussing it.  He misses Letterman hosting and I miss Billy Crystal. Especially when they did that cheesy intro where he would insert himself in the best pictures.

 

Letterman just made a comment that even though he blames himself for the terrible performance and show when he hosted the Oscars, "at least NOBODY GOT HIT."

Edited March 29, 2022 by kib

[Lady Whistleup]

10 minutes ago, kib said:

Letterman just made a comment that even though he blames himself for the terrible performance when he hosted the Oscars, at least NOBODY GOT HIT.

The cool thing about someone like Dave hosting the show was he truly did not care about what people thought. He was going to own that godawful Uma/Oprah joke and not give a shit if Oprah feuded with him for a decade. 

The issue is the Oscars are afraid of that type of humor. For the most part they get anodyne personalities to recite anodyne jokes. Ellen, Billy Crystal, NPH, Anne Hathaway ... It's why Chris Rock's humor seemed so "off" last night ... it was something he'd probably done many times in his stand up shows, but it was off brand for the Oscars.

They haven't even gotten Tina Fey to host it. 

[kib]

8 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

The cool thing about someone like Dave hosting the show was he truly did not care about what people thought. He was going to own that godawful Uma/Oprah joke and not give a shit if Oprah feuded with him for a decade. 

The issue is the Oscars are afraid of that type of humor. For the most part they get anodyne personalities to recite anodyne jokes. Ellen, Billy Crystal, NPH, Anne Hathaway ... It's why Chris Rock's humor seemed so "off" last night ... it was something he'd probably done many times in his stand up shows, but it was off brand for the Oscars.

They haven't even gotten Tina Fey to host it. 

A lot of it goes to studio ownership.  Huge corporations aren't really known to have much of a sense of humor. In Letterman's case the "GE Handshake" told you everything you need to know about his future at NBC.

Excellent post, helps explain a lot of things.

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by kib

[scarynikki12]

I think the harshest outcome of whatever investigation the Academy is conducting would be Will losing his membership. They aren't going to revoke his Oscar because all anyone needs to say in response is one name: Roman Polanski. He fled the US to avoid going to prison for raping a child back in the 70s in favor of non-extradition France. Everyone in the industry knows what he did and why he fled and he still won an Oscar in 2003. The Academy didn't prevent his nomination, his win, and hasn't even considered revoking the award. 

[Lady Whistleup]

11 minutes ago, kib said:

A lot of it goes to studio ownership.  Huge corporations aren't really known to have much of a sense of humor. In Letterman's case the "GE Handshake" told you everything you need to know about his future at NBC.

Excellent post, helps explain a lot of things.

 

One cool thing was years later Oprah leaned into that "Uma/Oprah" joke for a funny gag when she went on Dave's show:

It was actually sweet, to see them both chuckling over the famously bad joke.

[Macbeth1966]

2 hours ago, susannah said:

I think the point of the joke was missed here. Of course it wasn't true. Dame Judi has worked all of her very long life. That was the joke. If they had left it at the first line, "she doesn't work hard enough," that was funny. To tell her repeatedly that she needs to "move her ass" I felt was not funny or respectful. Also, just because people laugh at the jokes doesn't mean they like them. Not sure how you would know she "loved" it.

Tracee's dress did not work because there was essentially nothing to it on the top except for a couple tiny squares of cloth.

I think I can say, after watching her in various interviews through the years, she wouldn't have a problem at all with someone telling her to "shake her ass" in a playful manner.  She's pretty laid back.

Now Maggie Smith might have a problem with that, but not Judi.

She can laugh at herself.  When they asked her to play Cleopatra on stage - her response was "Are you sure you want a menopausal dwarf to play this part?'

[ruby24]

They were never going to take the award away. And I don't think they should, it was voted on. 

But I do think they need to do SOMETHING to make up for their lack of action in the moment. They wouldn't have to if they had simply acted immediately and had him removed from the building and not been allowed to accept his award because he attacked someone at the ceremony. 

But they let him sit there, make a speech and be applauded by a room full of people too uncomfortable to do anything else.

That never should have happened. Revoking his membership is fair- I mean it's not like that's a huge punishment. It just means he can't vote on the awards and he won't get screeners. Boo-hoo. I guess the embarrassment of being "kicked out of the Academy" would be the worst thing about it.

And not invite him back next year to present.

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, SoMuchTV said:

Concerning the appropriateness of Chris Rock’s jokes:  on the one hand, even if he knew about her medical status, she was clearly owning and rocking the bald look, and he compared her to a badass character in a not-negative way. On the other hand, given his history of digs at her, I can see why she wouldn’t be pleased.

But - was nobody bothered by the joke he told just prior? About Javier and Penelope both being nominated, and he couldn’t win if she didn’t, because wives, amiright? I thought that was at least as insulting but it seemed to roll right over everyone. 

People have been complaining about it. But, that joke didn't cause an assault. That's why people aren't talking about it as much. Both were hacky softball jokes. One could be offended by one or both of them but they were quite tame all the same. 

People love Dicaprio joke but it was every bit as hack and tired. People love making jokes about his love life when he's just minding his business. But it's okay to laugh at him. I'm not saying the joke was offensive but I don't find any of them offensive. The awards shows today are borderline roasts. If this is the harshest it can get, we are in a good place.

 

[yowsah1]

5 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Furthermore the Academy need to make it clear that they have a zero tolerance policy for something like this so that it never happens again. 

Fun Fact:  The Academy adopted a Code of Conduct in 2017 in the wake of #MeToo.  What Smith did was in direct violation of that Code.

I guess it was more really "guidelines".

[susannah]

46 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I think the harshest outcome of whatever investigation the Academy is conducting would be Will losing his membership. They aren't going to revoke his Oscar because all anyone needs to say in response is one name: Roman Polanski. He fled the US to avoid going to prison for raping a child back in the 70s in favor of non-extradition France. Everyone in the industry knows what he did and why he fled and he still won an Oscar in 2003. The Academy didn't prevent his nomination, his win, and hasn't even considered revoking the award. 

Again, he didn't commit the criminal act ON STAGE at the Oscars.  Lots of entertainers, as well as non entertainers, have done wrong things, and that doesn't prevent them getting awards at different times. The difference is that this criminal act was done at the time, in person. Polanski, Woody Allen and the others don't enter into it.

[susannah]

1 hour ago, kib said:

Letterman just made a comment that even though he blames himself for the terrible performance and show when he hosted the Oscars, "at least NOBODY GOT HIT."

Speaking of Letterman and Crystal as hosts, I still remember Crystal singing "ain't it great in this segregated state, just drivin Miss Daisy back hooooome." I don't know why it's stuck in my head all these years! I looked up to see if he posted any comment about this time and he hasn't.

[Marley]

Psch nothing will happen to Will Smith. Rich male A list actors do no get consequences.

I get if he’s mad and thought the joke was rude as hell. Him yelling from his seat would’ve been fine. But to actually walk up there and slap Chris in front of everyone on TV was ridiculous and embarrassing as hell. What grown man acts like that. Will obviously thinks he’s above everyone.

Good luck to future comedians hosting anything.

[Misslindsey]

7 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I'm saying most people who watch movies don't watch them or seek them out. Streaming has nothing to do with it. They are almost never the largest streamed movies either.

I do. I prefer Academy Award movies over pretty much any blockbuster movie. I think blockbuster films are fine for what they are, but I do seek out films that are nominated at the various award shows. 

I think the reason why so many superhero movies do not get a nod is that there is so much more action than dialogue/story. I will be at my table for one for being lukewarm about most superhero films.

[chocolatine]

Am I the only one who thought that Chris Rock's G.I. Jane 2 joke was more insulting to Jada's acting ability than her hairstyle? As far as I recall, most people thought Demi Moore looked gorgeous with her hair buzzed off, but her acting in the movie was widely ridiculed. So Rock's message to Jada was essentially "you're only on the A-list because of your husband, the only role you'd be able to get on your own merit is a sequel to a terrible 90s movie because you look hot with a buzz cut." It was more subtle than just about her looks, which is why it took Will a moment to stop laughing, fully understand what Rock was saying, and get mad on Jada's behalf. And the reason why he got so mad is because he knows it's true and that everyone else knows it too. He was still 100% in the wrong to slap Rock, of course.

 

[DollEyes]

8 hours ago, millennium said:

This has ruined "After Earth" for me.

I can never focus on "Focus" again. 😢

[Guest]

2 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

But - was nobody bothered by the joke he told just prior? About Javier and Penelope both being nominated, and he couldn’t win if she didn’t, because wives, amiright? I thought that was at least as insulting but it seemed to roll right over everyone. 

I was and I’ve seen other people reacting to it. The normal things that would have gotten a reaction have been largely overshadowed and sexist comments are still largely acceptable. From what I have seen people who care about things like that are calling out three moments in particular: the Penelope Cruz joke and the fact that she was referred to only as Javier Bardeem’s wife, Amy Schumer treated Kristen Dunst like a seat filler and kicking her out of her seat and Regina Hall being a desperate single woman groping men. 

12 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Am I the only one who thought that Chris Rock's G.I. Jane 2 joke was more insulting to Jada's acting ability than her hairstyle? As far as I recall, most people thought Demi Moore looked gorgeous with her hair buzzed off, but her acting in the movie was widely ridiculed. So Rock's message to Jada was essentially "you're only on the A-list because of your husband, the only role you'd be able to get on your own merit is a sequel to a terrible 90s movie because you look hot with a buzz cut." It was more subtle than just about her looks, which is why it took Will a moment to stop laughing, fully understand what Rock was saying, and get mad on Jada's behalf. And the reason why he got so mad is because he knows it's true and that everyone else knows it too. He was still 100% in the wrong to slap Rock, of course.

 

I did think that was part of what Rock intended to say but Smith was definitely reacting to the hair thing. Maybe my memory is faulty but I also remember there being a clear aspect of misogyny in the reaction to Demi’s hair for the movie. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Guest

[marybennet]

The Schumer/Dunst/Plemons thing was scripted and was an instance of people having a sense of humor about themselves, participating in the joke.  If anything, it was Amy S making fun of herself in pretending she'd be so ignorant and rude as not to recognize Kirsten Dunst.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, marybennet said:

The Schumer/Dunst/Plemons thing was scripted and was an instance of people having a sense of humor about themselves, participating in the joke.  If anything, it was Amy S making fun of herself in pretending she'd be so ignorant and rude as not to recognize Kirsten Dunst.

It always surprises me how many people actually believe that those moments aren’t scripted. The reaction to that one is ridiculous and Amy had to post on Instagram that Kirsten was in on the joke. 

[NotMySekrit2Tell]

48 minutes ago, Dani said:

and Regina Hall being a desperate single woman groping men. 

Could someone explain that bit to me like I'm 12? Because I didn't understand it. It wasn't funny; it was just weird and vague.

I was following a discussion on social media, and people who loved it said it was intended as some kind of payback moment? Like, these actors were going to know what it was like to be objectified and touched without consent, under the guise of something that is the price of taking part in the movie industry, and the woman (Regina) had the power. But then I was thinking, has Timothee Chalamet been accused of groping someone? Has Jason Momoa had a #metoo? Bradley Cooper? 

The only one of that bunch that I was aware of as "problematic" is Brolin, and his issue was alleged domestic violence (Diane Lane). So a "good for the goose" skit involving Brolin would be, I don't know, a woman running onto the stage and slapping him. 

Plus, THEY WERE IN ON THE JOKE. It was scripted. They knew their names were going to be called! 

[marybennet]

26 minutes ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

Could someone explain that bit to me like I'm 12?

Here's my attempt, speaking like a fellow 12 year old:  I didn't like this particular thing either, but I think the argument would be (and I get it) that men in general (not these particular guys) haven't been as objectified in the world and in Hollywood the way women have been.  Remember the Oscars ceremony when Seth McFarlane sang a whole song called "we saw your boobs" about actresses who had done semi-naked scenes?  This is turning things over in that sense--thinking about men as objects and even comically (fake-, I assume) groping them.  It's making men and their bodies the objects of stupid sexualized jokes as women have been the objects of stupid sexualized jokes.  That the guys were in on the joke meant that they were participating in the overturning of the traditional relationship, which makes them sort of good guys, in these terms, for seeing what the problem always was.

I'm half-convincing myself but only half- because it didn't work and wasn't so funny to me.  One problem was that I could see the joke coming from a mile away, and so the bit seemed unbearably long.

Edited March 29, 2022 by marybennet

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

I was following a discussion on social media, and people who loved it said it was intended as some kind of payback moment? Like, these actors were going to know what it was like to be objectified and touched without consent, under the guise of something that is the price of taking part in the movie industry, and the woman (Regina) had the power. But then I was thinking, has Timothee Chalamet been accused of groping someone? Has Jason Momoa had a #metoo? Bradley Cooper? 

I just don’t think it was that deep. Particularly since Hall blurted out “I’m single” in the opening. If it was deliberate social commentary  I can’t see them falling back on blatant sexist tropes about single women. To me the explanation of the “joke” is that single women are desperate and horny. As a women there was absolutely nothing empowering about that. 

[Racj82]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

Am I the only one who thought that Chris Rock's G.I. Jane 2 joke was more insulting to Jada's acting ability than her hairstyle? As far as I recall, most people thought Demi Moore looked gorgeous with her hair buzzed off, but her acting in the movie was widely ridiculed. So Rock's message to Jada was essentially "you're only on the A-list because of your husband, the only role you'd be able to get on your own merit is a sequel to a terrible 90s movie because you look hot with a buzz cut." It was more subtle than just about her looks, which is why it took Will a moment to stop laughing, fully understand what Rock was saying, and get mad on Jada's behalf. And the reason why he got so mad is because he knows it's true and that everyone else knows it too. He was still 100% in the wrong to slap Rock, of course.

 

No, I don't think it meant anything other than she was rocking a bald hairstyle like GI Jane. No one remembers anything about that movie except for her shaving her head. I don't even recall anyone taking her digs on her acting in the movie. She got ridiculed for Striptease and her performance in it. Either way, no one would remember her acting in it enough for that bit to work. The bald head is a recall. Something you might know even if you haven't seen the movie.

[Cheezwiz]

5 hours ago, ruby24 said:

The closest example of this kind of disruption was probably the streaker at the 1973 awards (who was taken down by security!)

And mocked hilariously by presenter David Niven! 😆

[Cheezwiz]

2 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

I will be at my table for one for being lukewarm about most superhero films.

May I join you and share a bottle of wine?  I'm so dismayed at the way they have taken over the entire industry in the last decade or so. Escapist popcorn movies are totally fine, but to have them completely dominate the industry to the exclusion of all else is depressing. To quote Ridley Scott, they are "boring as shit".

[Vermicious Knid]

What I'd really like is someone in the Industry to come forward and say, "I'm a survivor of domestic violence and I will not work with Will Smith."

The Oscars always have bad, cringy jokes. It's a tradition. Even without hosts they managed to have dumb things come out of people's mouths. I remember when Whoopie hosted, I don't remember specific jokes but a lot of them landed with a thud. What if Rock had made a joke about Jada cheating with her son's friend, something she's admitted to publicly? Would Will still be 'justified' in physically attacking him because that impinged directly on his masculinity? Everything he's said is bullshit. Kevin Bull of American Ninja Warriors has alopecia. He's not been on in a few years but he never attacked someone, he used his appearances to bring attention to the disease and support the Children's Alopecia Projecct. A contestant on SYTYCD who made it to the semis I think, had alopecia and never hit anyone.

Jada has never been known for her acting. Her last decent job was...Gotham? She wishes she had a role like G.I. Jane.

[Simon Boccanegra]

5 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Someone upthread wondered if Will could "get away" with what he did if that was Amy Schumer making the G.I. Jane joke instead of Rock. I have wondered the same thing, and there's no way better to point out the double standard on the reaction to the incident (outside of this forum, because I don't think anyone here is letting Will off the hook). Chris Rock sure is no less of a victim just because he is a male.

Yes. Rock's a guy, so, unfortunately, he would be ridiculed if he talked about being victimized, in the manner of the woman on Real World: Seattle who was slapped on camera by a male castmate. He'd have no cred anymore, especially as a Black comic. Guys are "supposed to" either hit back or get over it.

Just to give a brief summary of that RW event, the young woman (Irene) had decided to leave the house prematurely, and her relationship with a castmate named Stephen had gone from friendly and flirtatious to conflict-ridden. She said goodbye to Stephen last, and she told him, "A marriage between you and I [sic] would never work. You know that, Stephen, because you're a homosexual." (Stephen was pretty obviously in the closet, and he did come out many years later.) After initially appearing stunned, then yelling some abusive things at her, he retaliated by chasing after her and slapping her face. 

She's talked/written since then about how upsetting it is that MTV plays the moment over and over as a great moment in television. She's said that even though she wasn't physically injured, she had nightmares and flashbacks, et cetera, and she still can't believe the crew just stood by and didn't intervene.  

A lot of the reaction I'm seeing to Smith/Rock on the internet is very similar to the reaction to Stephen/Irene 24 years ago. There were always people arguing she brought it on herself by saying what she said, that her taunting him about her perception of his sexuality (something he was obviously in turmoil over) was cruel in itself. Other people took the position that nothing justifies physical violence, and he should have been arrested and charged or, at the very least, not allowed to remain in the house and finish out the season.

Ironically, Chris Rock once used that incident for standup material, leading Stephen to boast (misleadingly) that Rock had "given [him] props." 

[MsTree]

Will's tweet apology is all bulllshit. Guarantee he was "forced" to do so by his publicist due to the backlash. As another poster mentioned, if he was truly sorry, he would have expressed it during his apology to the academy.  

I'd like nothing better than to be wrong. Actions speak louder than words!

[LadyIrony]

I'm so cynical about the Smith vs Rock thing. It looked really staged to me and it's the first time people have shown interest in these awards for years.

Edited March 29, 2022 by LadyIrony

[Spartan Girl]

I’d much rather talk about that moment at the end with Lady Gaga and Liza Minnelli. I hate to say it, but Liza doesn’t look much longer for this world, but Gaga was so sweet and respectful with her.

[FancyRhubarb]

37 minutes ago, LadyIrony said:

I'm so cynical about the Smith vs Rock thing. It looked really staged to me and it's the first townspeople have shown interest in these awards for years.

I think it was real, if only because Will Smith is so hyper focused on the image he projects of a calm, good vibes, no cursing, positive black man that he'd never sign up for anything that made him look like a violent jackass. I sort of feel bad for him because of that. I recently read an article about the major who cheated on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire and it said people STILL cough at him when he walks down the street and that happened a few days before 9/11. And I can't help but think Will is going to spend the rest of his life having hecklers yell out " Keep my wife's name out your fucking mouth".

[chediavolo]

5 hours ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

Could someone explain that bit to me like I'm 12? Because I didn't understand it. It wasn't funny; it was just weird and vague.

I was following a discussion on social media, and people who loved it said it was intended as some kind of payback moment? Like, these actors were going to know what it was like to be objectified and touched without consent, under the guise of something that is the price of taking part in the movie industry, and the woman (Regina) had the power. But then I was thinking, has Timothee Chalamet been accused of groping someone? Has Jason Momoa had a #metoo? Bradley Cooper? 

The only one of that bunch that I was aware of as "problematic" is Brolin, and his issue was alleged domestic violence (Diane Lane). So a "good for the goose" skit involving Brolin would be, I don't know, a woman running onto the stage and slapping him. 

Plus, THEY WERE IN ON THE JOKE. It was scripted. They knew their names were going to be called! 

We are all losing our sense of humor in this country. Too complicated and important a subject, and off topic, to go into. Nonetheless true. 

[chediavolo]

1 hour ago, LadyIrony said:

I'm so cynical about the Smith vs Rock thing. It looked really staged to me and it's the first townspeople have shown interest in these awards for years.

It really did look staged. Even the slap looked fake. But one he said “motherfuckin’” numerous times I surmised it was not. 

53 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’d much rather talk about that moment at the end with Lady Gaga and Liza Minnelli. I hate to say it, but Liza doesn’t look much longer for this world, but Gaga was so sweet and respectful with her.

My fucking recorded ended before the show was over! 

[Rebecca berkowit]

43 minutes ago, FancyRhubarb said:

I think it was real, if only because Will Smith is so hyper focused on the image he projects of a calm, good vibes, no cursing, positive black man that he'd never sign up for anything that made him look like a violent jackass. I sort of feel bad for him because of that. I recently read an article about the major who cheated on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire and it said people STILL cough at him when he walks down the street and that happened a few days before 9/11. And I can't help but think Will is going to spend the rest of his life having hecklers yell out " Keep my wife's name out your fucking mouth".

I think it was real unless it was a DEEP, DEEP fake agreed upon by Rock and Smith beforehand, and they told NOBODY.  This is unlikely.  Especially with the Academy “investigating.”  (Nothing will come of that, btw.) 

[greekmom]

9 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

But - was nobody bothered by the joke he told just prior? About Javier and Penelope both being nominated, and he couldn’t win if she didn’t, because wives, amiright? I thought that was at least as insulting but it seemed to roll right over everyone. 

Exactly my point. He made that off colour joke and no one bats an eye. Javier and Penelope did the laugh and Rock moved on to the Smiths.  If they were offended, it didn't show. Why was that joke ok? Because it didn't poke at some illness? Who knows what goes on in someone's bedroom.    

I agree with another point in the upthread that the Smiths are just too open about their lives. 

8 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

The cool thing about someone like Dave hosting the show was he truly did not care about what people thought. He was going to own that godawful Uma/Oprah joke and not give a shit if Oprah feuded with him for a decade. 

The issue is the Oscars are afraid of that type of humor. For the most part they get anodyne personalities to recite anodyne jokes. Ellen, Billy Crystal, NPH, Anne Hathaway ... It's why Chris Rock's humor seemed so "off" last night ... it was something he'd probably done many times in his stand up shows, but it was off brand for the Oscars.

They haven't even gotten Tina Fey to host it. 

And Seth McFarlene. The "We Saw your boobs" an obvious joke but tasteless in my opinion even in 2013 and even if it included the Gay Mens Choir.  But like Ricky Gervais said: "There just jokes".  

 

[Rebecca berkowit]

5 hours ago, marybennet said:

Here's my attempt, speaking like a fellow 12 year old:  I didn't like this particular thing either, but I think the argument would be (and I get it) that men in general (not these particular guys) haven't been as objectified in the world and in Hollywood the way women have been.  Remember the Oscars ceremony when Seth McFarlane sang a whole song called "we saw your boobs" about actresses who had done semi-naked scenes?  This is turning things over in that sense--thinking about men as objects and even comically (fake-, I assume) groping them.  It's making men and their bodies the objects of stupid sexualized jokes as women have been the objects of stupid sexualized jokes.  That the guys were in on the joke meant that they were participating in the overturning of the traditional relationship, which makes them sort of good guys, in these terms, for seeing what the problem always was.

I'm half-convincing myself but only half- because it didn't work and wasn't so funny to me.  One problem was that I could see the joke coming from a mile away, and so the bit seemed unbearably long.

At first I thought it was funny, after all she had said earlier that she was single, this was an obvious extension of that joke.  BUT, then I started thinking…wasn’t Me Too/Time’s Up a HUGE deal at one of these awards shows in the last (can’t remember if it was Oscars or Emmys), with people wearing ribbons and such?  In that light, I thought it was a bit hypocritical to show people being groped and hit on like that (unless that was the point they were trying to make, which I doubt, because, again, they seemed to be just making fun of the fact that the host was single). So then I started thinking it was in poor taste.  And, sure, I get why it’s different if a woman does it.  It’s funny when a woman does it, and threatening when a man does it, just because of the inherent power differential with respect to the sexes, STILL, which is the whole point of Me Too/Time’s up.   (The goose/gander turnabout here is a step in the right direction, but what we are shooting for is a world in which nobody needs to make jokes like this, at all, because the sexes are truly equal.)  But, still, I don’t think everyone gets this distinction, and I think they shouldn’t have done it.  It opens them up to all kinds of accusations of “but I thought this kind of sexist behavior was wrong, huh Hollywood?” from dumb people.  

[DkNNy79]

4 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

The Oscars always have bad, cringy jokes. It's a tradition. Even without hosts they managed to have dumb things come out of people's mouths. I remember when Whoopie hosted, I don't remember specific jokes but a lot of them landed with a thud. What if Rock had made a joke about Jada cheating with her son's friend, something she's admitted to publicly? Would Will still be 'justified' in physically attacking him because that impinged directly on his masculinity? Everything he's said is bullshit. 

Yep, Rock’s joke was tame in comparison to what he could’ve done.  I also give him credit for showing restraint cuz he really could’ve gone to town on Will and Jada if he wanted to.  I think he thought about it for a second but didn’t think it was worth it.

 

Will just made the situation so much worse for himself and Jada.  Comedians are going to go in on him hard.  It was a complete overreaction on his part.

[bluegirl147]

40 minutes ago, DkNNy79 said:

Yep, Rock’s joke was tame in comparison to what he could’ve done.  I also give him credit for showing restraint cuz he really could’ve gone to town on Will and Jada if he wanted to.  I think he thought about it for a second but didn’t think it was worth it.

Oh I'm sure he will go hard on them in his comedy act.  

42 minutes ago, DkNNy79 said:

Will just made the situation so much worse for himself and Jada.  Comedians are going to go in on him hard.  It was a complete overreaction on his part.

As someone mentioned in this thread or another thread Will walking proudly back to seat after the assault was him thinking he had done something good.  Like he looked triumphant.  I'm guessing reality set in once he saw all the negative press.

[Tuneful]

13 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Earlier one of the hosts made a reference to their open marriage, and he didn’t hit her.

From the Washington Post comment section: "You can **** my wife, but don't call her bald."