S02.E03: Family Of Rogues

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Barry and the team find out Captain Cold has been kidnapped, they form an uneasy alliance with his sister, Lisa. However, Barry feels double-crossed when he finds out Snart is working with his father, Lewis Snart, on a heist. Meanwhile, Joe is faced with a difficult decision.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9CE18UvvsU

Edited October 15, 2015 by Chip
close until airtime

[nksarmi]

Loved this episode so much.  Ok yea, it was dumb to not wonder might come through the wormhole once you stabilized it and left it unattended, but whatever - still loved the episode.

 

The Iris and Barry bit at the beginning was simply fantastic.

Catelyn is a little too hung up on Jake already, but it's somehow cute at the same time.

Cisco and Golden Glider were great.

Love how they are setting Cold up for the new show.

[Jediknight]

They've got Cold on the path to Legends of Tomorrow, and Barry seeing that he can become Citizen Cold.  Lisa interacts naturally with Caitlin and Cisco, wouldn't object to seeing more of her.  So yeah, we need more of the Snart family.

 

Although Barry next time should disguise his voice when talking to Lisa.

 

Stein continues to show he can't control Firestorm by himself, Cold is on the path, and Arrow's starting a big push for Legends of Tomorrow.  They're going all in for the spinoff, which is awesome.

 

I'd like to make a request that we get a certain survivor of Krypton come through the portal.  This way you can see it's not the movie version.

[Velocity23]

The show really did the Iris fans dirty by cutting out the talk between Barry and Iris about her mother. And they actually used a pic of them both to promote the episode.

[Ruby25]

Why would they spend so much time on Barry/Iris last season, only to drop it completely for this season? I don't get it.

[bettername2come]

Iris was full-on Lois Lane in that opening. Nothing to do with the rest of the plot, but it was amazing. Love that jumping out the window was Barry's idea (including the Aladdin-like "Do you trust me?")

 

Okay, Cisco, Lisa's improved and getting some of the Freudian excuse, but could you please still be a little mad  at her for kidnapping you and your brother and using your tech to kill people? Can't completely hate her because she likes his smile and seemed genuinely nice to him tonight. Damn her. And did they not use the "you should see my Nerf collection" line? 

 

Cold is easing his way into believable anti-hero. Don't know how they're going to make me buy Heatwave as not a complete psychopath. 

 

Jesse L. Martin, if you were a less talented actor, Joe would be completely unlikable. Wish Iris had been a little angrier, but I can't fault her for forgiving Joe.

[tennisgurl]

Poor Iris is going to have major league trust issues. 

 

Really good episode. I love the Snart family. They're a lot of fun. You can tell theyre setting up for the spin-off, whith Captain Cold becomes more of an anti-hero/anti-villain type. 

 

Is it wrong that I kinda ship Golden Glider and Cisco? 

[Jenesis]

Ok...this episode.

 

Why does Mama West have to be a crackhead? Geez.

BTW, No follow up with Iris and Joe. Barry yucking it up with Patty at Jitters instead of speaking w/ Iris over something that just totally rocked or world. That's coming off the heels of losing her fiance and finding out her BF is some superhero. Why is Joe and Barry speaking about it?

 

The Snarts are....yeah. No wonder Leonard is very anal, given his father and the helpless he must have felt growing up trying to protect a little sister.

 

Loved Barry trying to be a criminal and catching that bullet.

 

Caitlin, with her thirsty ass. It was embarrassing. I thought she'd try to sit on Jay's face at some time during the show. It's been only six months since losing Ronnie. Slow down.

 

And, that's what you get for leaving a portal unattended and open. A Wells pops out!

 

Yay for Jason Rush next week!

Edited October 21, 2015 by Jenesis

[Jediknight]

Why would they spend so much time on Barry/Iris last season, only to drop it completely for this season? I don't get it.

I'd imagine Barry will probably say he's backed off due to Eddie.  Eddie was his friend, and Iris loved him, Barry can't do that to Eddie's memory.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Jediknight

[SzmuttyPratfall]

Dammit show, I don't want to be on the Cisco/Glider train, but I am on the Cisco/Glider train. Her revealing that she does really trust him, she likes his smile, and the way hes off-put around her. I DID NOT WANT TO LIKE THEM. Now I am hoping she is around more often.

Leonard Snart, with his lack of emotion should not be as much fun as he is.

I feel that Catelyn and Jay Garrick is happening a bit too soon, and while I understand why they want him around, I did not believe he wouldn't go home in the end.

 

ETA: Is anyone else waiting for all this ominous Harrison Wells stuff to just be misleading? I have a feeling this is going to be original good guy scientist Harrison Wells and not Evil-Eobard-Thawne-impersonating-Wells Harrison Wells.
 

Edited October 21, 2015 by SzmuttyPratfall

[Oscirus]

Biggest complaint about this episode is that you have Ironside playing a piece of shit and you only use him for one episode?  Are you kidding me.

 

I knew there was a metahuman wing at that prison.  These poor citizens and their taxes :(

 

Cisco stop making decisions with your penis. Just because you lucked out and turned out to be right this time doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

 

I can't tell you how awesome it is that they're setting up another spinoff series at the expense of  character development.

 

I guess at least on the Iris front that we got a Linda/ Iris scene.

 

Why do they feel a need to make Patty the new Felicity? How about you writers stop being lazy and create a whole new female love interest for Barry.

 

How long till Caitlin just straight up throws her panties at Jay?  These writers don't do subtle well.

 

That being said, not a bad episode.

 

[Lantern7]

Hi, Linda. Bye, Linda.

 

Cisco & Lisa? So wrong, but it's fun to see Cisco trip over his own erection. Runner-up would be Caitlin & Jay. Ronnie who?? Barry & Patty bring up the rear, but I suspect they'll bridge the gap soon.

 

Anybody else think of Lettie Mae and Tara from True Blood hearing about Francine? Also thought of Sylar from Heroes in regards to trying to drag Snart into the light. Why can't a sociopath remain a sociopath? And I'm guessing Mick will bail him out soon.

[sjohnson]

Parricide is redemptive? Who knew? Maybe the father did deserve it (or maybe not,) but either way killing your father would mess your mind up bad. Or drive you into such emotional repression you couldn't possibly behave like a normal human. 

 

Yeah, sometimes there are reasons why bad people got that way. To my mind this is a reason not to want to kill bad people like unwanted dogs, instead of people.

[nksarmi]

I'd imagine Barry will probably say he's backed off due to Eddie.  Eddie was his friend, and Iris loved him, Barry can't do that to Eddie's memory.

I would say that was a lot of it.  I also think something Barry said in the finale made him think that maybe in the "other" timeline they ended up together (the one where they didn't grow up in the same house) but in this timeline, things were different and maybe it just wasn't going to happen.  I kind of like it - it gives them a chance to develop more organically because last season the last thing I wanted was for them to get together.  Whereas the opening of this episode?  I was totally hoping on board the good ship Barry/Iris.

[Marie F.]

Wentworth Miller and the actress that plays Lisa are really similar in their mannerisms and speech.  Even without a scene together, I really buy them as siblings and I like that what they're doing with Cold.  I can see him as a hero.  I wish Lisa would stick around; she has an easy chemistry with everyone.  I'm not cool with her kidnapping and torturing Cisco/his brother and just having it all swept under the rug, though.

 

I've been kind of disinterested in Jay up until now, but I like him (and his hair cut) after this episode.  I wish he had his powers and he was in on all the action.  Still not interested in him and Caitlin; I think he's being wasted.

 

Of course, Iris's mother is a drug addict.  Of course.  I wish they had taken that in a different direction--maybe made Francine mentally ill and a danger to Iris and have her run away to keep Iris safe or something?  But of course she's a drug addict. 

 

However, I liked the opening scene with Iris; it was kind of random and irrelevant to the rest of the episode, but it was well done.  I just wish they could figure out a way to integrate her better.  She couldn't have been investigating a metahuman instead of scammers?  Couldn't she have gotten a lead on Snart's dad planning a big robbery since that's what the episode was about?

 

Good to see Barry doing some actual CSI work, though.  I'm over Barry and Patty scenes, though.  Why is it that neither of them can finish a sentence?  They keep puttering and stuttering around awkwardly; it's not cute and they seem like they're high on something.

[madhacker]

 

Leonard Snart, with his lack of emotion should not be as much fun as he is.

That's because Wentworth is so good in this role (I swear you can see the absolute delight in his eyes when he's getting off those one liners). He and Victor Garber are going to have a blast playing off each other in LOT, I guarantee it.

 

Dammit, I'm also on the Cisco/Glider ship.

[nksarmi]

Parricide is redemptive? Who knew? Maybe the father did deserve it (or maybe not,) but either way killing your father would mess your mind up bad. Or drive you into such emotional repression you couldn't possibly behave like a normal human. 

 

Yeah, sometimes there are reasons why bad people got that way. To my mind this is a reason not to want to kill bad people like unwanted dogs, instead of people.

Oh this reminded me - at least this week Barry didn't kill the bad guy.  Ok I don't actually mind that Cold killed his dad because it sounds like the dude visited hell on his son and daughter and Cold had to grow up real fast, learn that monsters are real and his dad is one, and he had to be the hero and keep his sister safe. Ergo, Cold is already messed up - can't see how killing his dad (since he is already a killer) could make him worse.

 

What I want to know is.....why can't Oliver kill over on Arrow again? (I'm pretty sure even Diggle's bullets are dropping one or two guys permanently)

[Lady Calypso]

I will say that the Joe/Iris scene is the one we have finally gotten, the one we deserved and it was so well done. Sure, the circumstances suck, but the sad fact that we had to wait this long for one? I wish we could have gotten a little more, but I thought Iris was used better this episode than she has in a while. Her first scene with Barry, thought randomly placed, was awesome and kickass. Plus, Linda getting to compliment Iris? They could always write Iris better and use her better, but this is the best we've seen of her. And her mom's a drug addict. Of course. I was totally on Joe's side during his conversation with Francine. Iris' mom sucks. What gives her the right to waltz back into their lives twenty years later, seemingly with no phone call or contact? At least she had the decency to not just show up on Iris' doorstep, and Joe got the chance to tell her himself. But still, do not like Iris' mom at all.

 

Lisa/Cisco still warm my heart. I thought I'd grow tired of them, but nope. Somehow, they still work. They work better than Jay/Caitlin, at least. I really, really dislike Jay/Caitlin, even though I like them both as individuals. I know it's been six months for Caitlin, but I feel like it's still too soon. Caitlin was still in mourning not even a month ago. She hadn't even been back at Star Labs until the end of the first episode. I just can't phantom why the show feels like Cailtin needs another love interest. They already hinted at her becoming Killer Frost, right? Why couldn't she be more on a journey to there? 

 

Patty/Barry is kind of boring to me. All I can see Patty as is the Felicity they couldn't get for Barry. 

 

Well, Leonard is definitely on his way to become a hero, or at least an anti-hero. I can surprisingly buy it.

[benteen]

First off, major props for Cisco’s impersonation of Dr. Stein, which was very funny.

 

I enjoyed this episode.  Nice look at the Snart character and I really like that it was a non-Meta case.

 

The beginning with Iris was a blast.

 

I agree that Jesse Martin is such a good actor that I’ll always like Joe, despite his sociopathic lying.

 

Cisco and Glider are great together.

 

Michael Ironside keeps popping up in a lot of these comic-related properties.  He was General Lane in Smallville and was also in X-Men First Contact.

Edited October 21, 2015 by benteen

[blugirlami21]

I liked the episode. I am still bummed about Linda and I resent her showing up in this episode where they basically have Patty and Barry falling over each other every five seconds.

More on that, what is Patty's purpose? If the show runners are to be believed Barry and Iris are endgame. Why are even wasting time on a new love interest? I wouldn't mind it if Patty weren't so on the nose and so obviously Barry's type.

I like Cisco and Lisa together more and more. They're cute.

Joe gave me shivers from his coldness with Francine.

And Caitlin stop begging. It's too soon for her to be throwing herself at Jay, Ronnie's been gone for five minutes. It's not a cute look for her. At. All.

[cambridgeguy]

So they've got a security camera on the portal they spent all episode trying to stabilize, right?  Something hooked up to a motion detector and alarm since the (known) visitors have consisted of Jay and a bunch of superpowered killers gunning for Barry. 

 

Also, thermite is NOT an explosive.  It gets really, really hot but it doesn't blow up - there's a reason why it's such a popular demo in classrooms.

[Ruby25]

I liked the episode. I am still bummed about Linda and I resent her showing up in this episode where they basically have Patty and Barry falling over each other every five seconds.

More on that, what is Patty's purpose? If the show runners are to be believed Barry and Iris are endgame. Why are even wasting time on a new love interest? I wouldn't mind it if Patty weren't so on the nose and so obviously Barry's type.

 

This is my question x1000. And sadly, I truly, honestly believe, and am convinced more with every episode....that her purpose is to get Barry laid before he and Iris can happen.

 

I'm not even kidding! I really think that's why she's there! In fact, I'm going to bet that whenever that happens (my guess is mid-season finale), they then break up within like a couple of episodes in the second half, because she will have served her real purpose on the show (and that actress just last week booked a starring role on another pilot with Ryan Phillippe, so she's not long for this show- she'll probably be out before the season's end, even).

 

And she doesn't have much of a spark to me- she's NO felicity at all. She's just a pretty blonde.

 

I think they just want to level the playing field, since Iris was with Eddie so long last year and Barry seems to have never had a real girlfriend. So that's why we're wasting time on this this season, and I'm sorry, but that's pretty lame. I don't CARE if Barry hasn't been with anybody else- if they want to put him and Iris together they should do just it.

 

By the way, I can't believe they cut an emotional heart-to-heart scene with Barry/Iris this week! The two actors teased it on Instagram and everything.

[quarks]

Well, I'm not quite buying Captain Cold as the hero of Legends yet, but we're getting there.

 

Good things:

 

1. The Barry/Iris moment at the beginning was fun - pure comic booky, slightly countered by, sigh, Iris having to get rescued again, but then countered again by Iris at least getting to play a part in her own rescue and give Barry some intel, and turn it into a career moment.

 

2. Loved Snart's quiet eyerolling over Barry's attempted lies and theatrics.  Really, the entire Snart family is fun - I'm sorry the father is probably dead. 

 

3. Ok, I'm on the Lisa/Cisco train. It's a terrible train and I hate myself for being on it, but what can I say?

 

4. Liked Linda coming by to congratulate Iris: we don't get a lot of these women supporting women moments on either show, so I'll take them where I can get them.

 

Questionable things:

 

1. Ok, yes, I'm happy that Jay Garrick is staying, but why? He's in the wrong dimension. And I can't think that keeping this portal thingy open is a very good idea. They've already had superpowered killers going through the other portals: why risk it?

 

2. I know the cold gun is an absolute zero cold gun and I am just supposed to be handwaving it, but I am not handwaving that it can freeze lasers. Now, if Captain Cold had aimed the gun at the devices EMITTING the lasers I would have believed that. 

 

Bad things:

 

1. Wow, Joe, you've been lying to your daughter for years about her mother - even after your daughter was an adult, and even after she told you last season to stop pulling crap like this? You suck. Well acted scene on both sides, but you suck.

 

2. Uh, Iris's mother? The whole "a daughter needs her mother at a time like this" was all very nice and might have been just a touch more credible had you, I don't know, shown up right after Eddie's death, instead of months afterwards, expecting me to believe you have your daughter's best interests at heart. No.

 

3. And Iris? It's fine to yell at Joe after something like this. You don't have to be a saint. #TeamIris

 

4. Not enough Harrison Wells.

[Oscirus]

I

think they just want to level the playing field, since Iris was with Eddie so long last year and Barry seems to have never had a real girlfriend. So that's why we're wasting time on this this season, and I'm sorry, but that's pretty lame. I don't CARE if Barry hasn't been with anybody else- if they want to put him and Iris together they should do just it.

 

I'm actually fine with this since Barry needs something to keep him occupied since Iris is in no mind frame to even entertain the thought of a relationship with him. I just want them to get to the damn point already.  Two episodes of meeting cute is more then enough time to establish the point that they're awkward around each other because they like one another. I'm sure everybody got it the first time, proceed to the next step, please.

[thuganomics85]

Michael Ironside!!!  Perfect casting: if anyone can knock the smugness out of Leonard Snart, and even make him come off meek, it would be The Ironside.  So, of course, this means that he is already killed off.  Boo, show!  I can't believe you made me loose an opportunity for more Ironside in the future.

 

Speaking of limited appearances, surprised they brought Linda Park back for a brief scene.  It had to take only a few hours to shoot, so I wonder if Malese Jow was in the neighborhood or something.  Still, it was a nice moment and I'm glad she and Iris seem to be friendly now, compared to last season, when the show stupidly put them at odds, and made them both look immature.

 

Oh, Cisco.  I get it: Lisa is hot and she really is working the whole "bad girl" thing.  And I do admit they (or the actors) seem to have a strange chemistry about them, that I enjoy.  But, in the end, I have to think it would be nothing but a bad idea, if Cisco ever did try something with Lisa.  At the end of the day, she is still a criminal who I'm pretty sure has a decent body-count.  Even if she truly likes him (which is possible, to be fair), the idea of Captain Cold as your girlfriend's brother might be one of the scariest ideas ever.

 

Joe really has a tendency to keep lying and misleading Iris throughout her entire life, which is kind of creepy.  I mean, Barry had to pretty much be all "She's not a little girl anymore, Joe!", for him to finally open up to her about her mom tonight.  Really, if it wasn't for Jesse L. Martin giving an amazing performance every episode, I really don't think I'd like Joe all that much.  But, once again, he (and Candice Patton) were great, so I can live with it.

 

I'm trying to give Patty a chance, but I feel like this show is trying way too hard with her being a geeky and quirky (complete with a model face and body, of course.) Although, I did love Joe being like "Oh, great.  I can't handle two of you!" when she and Barry begin being geeky together.

 

Stein is back up and on his feet, only to collapse again and this time sprout out blue flames.  Yeah, this isn't good.

 

Jay fixes the portal to get back to Earth 2, but stays after some convincing from Caitlin and Barry.  Mainly Caitlin.  Ronnie, who?

 

Not even going to figure out what it means that Harrison Wells has now popped back up, and is looking sinister as hell.

 

Good episode, even if a lot of it was setting up Snart for the spin-off.  At least his origin story won't involving dying and having his sibling dig him up from the grave.

[TV Anonymous]

Are they seriously freeze electromagnetic radiation? But how?

[Ruby25]

I like Cisco/Lisa better than Barry/Patty so far. Of course we're in for a lot more of the latter to come.

 

I'm sorry but I can't buy that actress as a nerd OR a cop. She looks like a model. And I think they're trying too hard with her.

[CabotCove]

Meh episode. I knew I couldn't like this Snart centric episode, the show bend backwards a lot for this character. 

 

Pulling some contrivances already for the spin off too, I see. So Lenny is not really the big bad after all but big daddy Snart is and oh look how much he loves his sister. Complete with being endorsed by Barry as a hero to be. So if he hadn't killed his dad, L Snart would have walked scott free, never paying for all his "petty" crimes. 

So after the 20 year old secret, Iris still does not get to meet her mom. Why couldnt that have been the cliffhanger. But of course Barry/Joe get to have their usual talks.

I just don't get the fascination with giving Harrison Wells the cliffhangers, I used to look forward to those but now they are just meh . Why does he matter anymore, don't the writers remember that RF was actually Eobard Thawne all along.  

 

The opening scene with Barry and Iris was really good,  good to see reporter Iris showing up.

I like Patty a lot better in this episode, she didnt seem to be trying to do a Felicity and actress seems to have settled more in the role. Her first appearance really did not work for me. She works better as a cop partner not as another awkward science nerd girl, so I hope they focus more on the former. 

I still dont like Caitlin being so hearty eyes on Jay, I dont even really see much to be so fascinated about Jay, but I did enjoy seeing Caitlin doing other things than just being a doctor. Her antagonistic relationship with Lisa is  fun.

I look forward to seeing a new firestorm.

 

The show really did the Iris fans dirty by cutting out the talk between Barry and Iris about her mother. And they actually used a pic of them both to promote the episode.

 

"Talk with Bae" Even GG promoted it.

Edited October 21, 2015 by WildcardC

[ottoDbusdriver]

Also, thermite is NOT an explosive.  It gets really, really hot but it doesn't blow up - there's a reason why it's such a popular demo in classrooms.

 

It was really weird that they went with thermite, I would have believed it more if the injections were capsules of C4.

 

1. Ok, yes, I'm happy that Jay Garrick is staying, but why? He's in the wrong dimension. And I can't think that keeping this portal thingy open is a very good idea. They've already had superpowered killers going through the other portals: why risk it?

 

2. I know the cold gun is an absolute zero cold gun and I am just supposed to be handwaving it, but I am not handwaving that it can freeze lasers. Now, if Captain Cold had aimed the gun at the devices EMITTING the lasers I would have believed that. 

 

And even if the cold gun froze the lasers, the emitters would have continued to pump out laser energy, so yeah, he should have frozen the emitters.  That was just stupid.

 

I was hoping for more Jay Garrick too.  I'm looking forward to finding out more about Earth 2 -- kind of like Fringe where it was fun to spot the differences between the red and blue (and black) universes.

[KirkB]

Yeah, the laser thing looked cool (pun intended) but it was just so stupid.

 

I guess I have to buy a ticket for the Cisco/Lisa train too. Man that thing is gonna be full.

 

At this point Iris is probably starting to wonder if anything her dad has ever told her is true.

 

Caitlin and Jay...yeah, slow down. I don't have an issue with them getting together but still, this is way too fast.

 

I like the actress but I'm not feeling Patty. If they don't want to put Barry and Iris together yet just don't. They already have a good excuse: Eddie.

 

Wells is apparently going to be like Malcolm Merlyn. The character won't go away because everyone likes the actor.

[Ruby25]

 

 If they don't want to put Barry and Iris together yet just don't. They already have a good excuse: Eddie.

 

Yeah, really. That's why I think it has more to do with them wanting Barry to get some action of his own first. But this is a long, time-wasting route to take to get to that end (they could easily give him a one night stand, but nooo, he's not that kind of guy...come on, writers. He could have a slip-up. It'd be better than putting than so much effort into a temporary placeholder relationship- the Patty actress has already signed on to another show for pete's sake, why should we invest in her?).

Edited October 21, 2015 by Ruby25

[Actionmage]

Wentworth Miller is just fun to watch here as Snart. Sticking Barry with the check was Len's least offensive acts, but at least it was funny with Barry's reaction to the server bringing the check. I think Snart was truly not happy that Barry "took the bullet", or else we wouldn't have gotten he out-of-Dad's-hearing "Sorry, Barry" that we got. He ( and ,momentarily, I) forgot who we were dealing with. 

 

I have thoughts on the Iris/Joe stuff. I will take them to one of those threads.

 

Can't we get a Clarissa drive-by? Her beloved husband, Martin, is undergoing a massive reaction to losing Ronnie. She should flipping be there with her very beloved husband! Someone- Caitlyn- should call her and/or bring her in- Cisco.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Actionmage

[Xander]

Joe's reaction to Patty's "joke" made this episode for me. LOL. 

[Oscirus]

I just realized that Joe is such a sociopath that he gave a recovering drug addict money to go away in order to maintain his lie.

 

So with all of the security measures in place to ensure that the lab is never again penetrated, is the team going to discuss the fact that Earth 2 and all of it's evil inhabitants has a direct pipeline to the lab?

 

 

[Rai]

First off, major props for Cisco’s impersonation of Dr. Stein, which was very funny.

Michael Ironside keeps popping up in a lot of these comic-related properties.  He was General Lane in Smallville and was also in X-Men First Contact.

 

Yes, all-time highlight of the episode was the surprisingly dead-on Stein impersonation.  Seriously, laughed forever on that one.

 

Let's not forget Michael Ironside's best comics role -- the voice of Darkseid!

[foreverevolving]

Count me in on the Cisco/Lisa train, AKA the GoldenVibe train- I can't remember if I saw that name somewhere or if I thought of it myself, if I did yay for me.

Snark is awesome, Can't wait to see him on LoT and interacting with Sara and Rip.

I cringed when Caitlin basically begged Jay to stay... I have no problem with her trying to move on (I guess she is looking for a rebound guy), but it was just poorly executed, also didn't Jay say he has a kid, so he might have a second half..

And Stein!! 

 

That last minute.. So yea, the first thing i thought when they stabilized that portal was "so who's gonna come through it?"

and sure enough it was Wells!

 

Looking forward to next week.

[cambridgeguy]

Caitlin should just get it over with and ask Jay to move in with her.  He should need a place to live since a guy without powers who appeared out of thin air six months ago shouldn't have been able to get a job or a decent apartment.  Why live the life of a remarkably clean and well groomed hobo if you don't have to?

[Chicago Redshirt]

Cold did freeze the laser emitters. He blasted the entire hallway with his cold gun, and then said something to the effect of "there's X amount of time until the emitters thaw out."

[TobinAlbers]

Forget Snowbarry, I'm into the Snarry. Snart is so reluctantly into Barry it's not even funny. He's totally the Catwoman to Barry's sunny Batman.

 

Wentworth Miller really is good at showing the flickers in Snart's character, even as Snart was glaring at Barry with the thought bubble of 'You take that back!' dancing over his head when Barry was needling him about 'You have some good in you' you could see a very subtle reluctant flicker of possibly him believing that maybe Barry is right. I also have to think that Snart buried a lot of his empathy and feelings having grown up under the violent rule of his father. He could even think that he could never be good coming from a father like that. Barry may be the first person to believe something positive in him and all Snart is thinking is 'You're naive, stupid, what's your angle? No, seriously, I can't believe you because do you know who I am and where I came from?'

 

Barry, after killing 2 metas in as many weeks, you ain't got too much room to side eye Snart for taking out his dad when seconds earlier the man was willing to blow his own daughter's head off.

 

I love Jay and the idea of Jay and Caitlin but it is way too soon to be going down that road with them. I kind of hope Jay puts the brakes on her real quick.

 

 

Can't we get a Clarissa drive-by? Her beloved husband, Martin, is undergoing a massive reaction to losing Ronnie. She should flipping be there with her very beloved husband! Someone- Caitlyn- should call her and/or bring her in- Cisco.

 

A-freakin-men. I get this show is catering to the 'young folk' but old people (read over 40) are people too. And basically Clarissa went through the same ish, Caitlin did in losing Martin only to get him back with him now showing some serious side-effects of losing Ronnie. Unless we're to learn Clarissa has left him or he hasn't told her about his condition (both highly unlikely) she needs to be shown to be the concerned, caring wife we've seen her be before.

 

I'm going to assume that the reason the stabilized portal to another world that you know has bad metas was left unattended by Team Flash was because they had just run out with Martin on a stretcher and were too concerned about him than to immediately think about securing the breach. Because otherwise they deserve a whole heaping of trouble for being so careless.

 

Can't hate on Joe when he was sobbing like that after telling Iris about his whopper of a lie. I get his rationalization: do I have my daughter continually hope and have that hope and her self-worth be dashed by an unreliable drug addict who has put her in harm's way time and again float in and out of her life or do I put it all to rest and have her live with the 'closure' of the pain of her mom being dead so that she can move on? Remember, Iris's mom left, couldn't be found, and never came back for 20 years. Iris would've been waiting for this woman and wondering why she wasn't good enough for her to stay, etc.and be all kinds of emotionally messed up despite her dad's best efforts. I look at it this way:  If the genders were flipped and it was single mom Jo talking about Iris's deadbeat dad, I don't think we'd be as upset with her for making what she thought was the best choice for her child. It's still a crummy decision, but then Joe was left with a crummy choice.

Edited October 21, 2015 by TobinAlbers

[nksarmi]

I wonder if Caitlin being over the top for Jay is deliberate?  I kind of hope it is and (while Jay doesn't deserve it) I hope it's about her going through one of the stages of grief.  It should be telling that she has set her eyes on not just a good looking man who is a hero, but he is also a scientist.

 

How old is Caitlin supposed to be?  Assuming she didn't get through school extra fast, I'm guessing she is pushing 30?  While a professional woman like her could believably wait to have kids well into her 30's - Ronnie's assumed death might have put her in a bit of a tailspin - wondering how she will find the right guy to settle down and have children with now that Ronnie is gone and then a "Mr. Perfect" shows up so who cares if he's from the wrong dimension? 

 

I - and most of the Army wives I knew - were about Caitlin's age when we were faced with husbands deploying to Iraq and Afghanistan 10+ years ago and many couples just decided to have a child even if it meant the guy might miss the baby's birth.  So if that is what they are doing with Caitlin, it would make sense, but it's odd to watch what would have otherwise been a cute couple be highlighted in what appears to be her desperation.

 

It seems like they want to put off her becoming Killer Frost for awhile - if ever (since they could easily just have her Earth 2 version do it now) - so I'd rather they have her be pregnant with Ronnie's baby and/or have him come back through the portal (though that would be a little rehash from season one, but still, no body - not dead).

[cynic]

Unless Caitlin skipped some years, she should probably be over 30 now. She was working at Star Labs prior to the start of the show, give that 3 years. The normal timeline would be graduating college at 22, then 4 years of med school, then at least 3 years for your residency. That would put her at 32 at minimum.

[Xander]

I think Caitlin isn't mourning this season because she mourned in Season 1 and they think it would be repetitive. However, I wish they weren't going full on with her thirst for him and had made it a reluctant flirtation. 

[nksarmi]

Unless Caitlin skipped some years, she should probably be over 30 now. She was working at Star Labs prior to the start of the show, give that 3 years. The normal timeline would be graduating college at 22, then 4 years of med school, then at least 3 years for your residency. That would put her at 32 at minimum.

Yea I figured even if she got her BS at 20 because of a lot of AP classes in high school, we'd still be talking med school at 24, residency complete at 26 or 27 and at least two years at Star Labs (since she was there in season two of Arrow) putting her at 29/30 at least, but older does make sense.

 

That's a very believable age for a woman to start thinking, I lost the love of my life - how am I going to find another great guy to settle down and have children with in time?  It's not necessarily a correct thought, but in the middle of her grief - it would make sense.  I'm hoping that is where they are going with this and not just thinking they are writing an adorable love match.

[Primetimer]

We meet the man responsible for Captain Cold and Golden Glider.

Read the story

[HunterHunted]

Yea I figured even if she got her BS at 20 because of a lot of AP classes in high school, we'd still be talking med school at 24, residency complete at 26 or 27 and at least two years at Star Labs (since she was there in season two of Arrow) putting her at 29/30 at least, but older does make sense.

 

That's a very believable age for a woman to start thinking, I lost the love of my life - how am I going to find another great guy to settle down and have children with in time?  It's not necessarily a correct thought, but in the middle of her grief - it would make sense.  I'm hoping that is where they are going with this and not just thinking they are writing an adorable love match.

I was in a program in the US that would have allowed me to graduate from medical school at 22. I dropped out after my second year, but one of my former classmates graduated at 21. If you assume that she took nearly every AP offered and was very ambitious about her studies, then 29/30 makes perfect sense.

[FurryFury]

This was like the first episode of the show I've enjoyed since forever (maybe the first half of season one). Other than the Iris' mother stuff, which was disappointing. Hope she's from Earth 2 or something. I really hoped Iris would call Joe out on lying to her YET AGAIN after last season, but nope. Still, at least this lie made more sense. Learning that your mother was a junkie who left you really can screw a person up... While they're a child, though, and Iris is decidedly not a child anymore.

 

Other than that, it was fun! I've finally got a handle on Cold's character and am now actually looking forward to seeing him on Legends of Tomorrow. I've heard bad stuff about Peyton List's acting on The Tomorrow People, but she's OK as Lisa so far (even if her character is so cliched it hurts).

 

Still liking Jay and his dynamics with the cast. Hope to see more of him and Earth-2. I don't mind Caitlyn/Jay ship tease because I hated Ronnie with a passion and am glad he's gone (he dragged her down imho). Still, I hope they'll take it slow.

 

I liked it that the episode had a strong sense of continuity, even if Patty, Malese Jow's character from last season (forgot her name) and Jay didn't really need to be here they were. I like it that the story wasn't as focused on Barry as the show usually is and I hope this will be the direction the show takes because TBH I don't care about Barry that much at this point.

[EricJ]

Does anyone else think that the "Speed Cannon" around the portal winds up looking a bit like the GL Power Battery?

[Sakura12]

I really hate that they made a storyline that should be about Iris, about Joe and for an unnecessary reason Barry. Joe had like three conversations with Barry about Iris mother and only one with her. I also hate that they made her drug addict. I suppose I can still think that she's from Earth 2 and found away back or was taken back and that's why Joe could never find her. And it took 20 years and another portal for her to return. If that is the case, I hope she tells Iris that first before Joe. 

 

I think they are trying to show us how strong Iris is by not letting her have many emotions so she can eventually be the lightening rod that Barry needs to keep him grounded. But it is coming across like they don't want to give her much of POV. 

 

I liked Linda's small cameo because of continuity and she gave Iris some props. I hoping she does stick around and becomes Iris' friend that she can hang out with for when and if they become family. 

 

I know some people don't like Team Flash. I do and I don't think they are like Team Arrow at all (at least not yet). They are an actual team, that like each other and hang out with each other and work together to figure things out. I like seeing that. 

 

I'm another that likes Cisco and Lisa. With seeing Stein and Captain Cold on this show I am looking forward to seeing them both on Legends. I can't wait to meet Hawkgirl and new Firestorm. 

Edited October 21, 2015 by Sakura12

[Chicago Redshirt]

It's good to see Linda, even though the interaction doesn't make much sense. Linda is a sports reporter. Iris is a news reporter. Linda comes over with directions from Iris's editor that they need her photos and copy in (some deadline). Why wouldn't the editor tell Iris directly, rather than involving a reporter to tell her this thing? Especially when they are in different departments. (I'll overlook the notion that Iris as a reporter is needing to produce photos, as at least in some real-world papers, there is now an expectation for reporters to also shoot pictures).

 

The problem with Peyton List on Tomorrow People was largely a failure of writing. Not that Peyton's acting was particularly good, but even if you took, say, Jennifer Lawrence or anyone you care to name as a good, age-appropriate actress, they wouldn't have been able to rescue that role. 

[maczero]

Cold did freeze the laser emitters. He blasted the entire hallway with his cold gun, and then said something to the effect of "there's X amount of time until the emitters thaw out."

The problem I have is that he was also able to freeze beams of light.