S09.E03: Under The Lake

[HauntedBathroom]

Count me out as someone who would ever want to see Donna back.  Too much screeching for my taste.

Agreed. She was god awful, and she's done. End of story.

[benteen]

The TARDIS also tried to avoid/shake off Captain Jack in Utopia (S3), going all the way to the end of the universe to get away from him (but good thing she couldn't shake him, as Jack was delightful interacting with Ten and Martha).

 

Speaking of Jack and other former Companions such as Donna, I agree with others that it would be fun to see them working with Twelve, as I think their sass would bring something new to the Doctor/Clara dynamic.  I actually wonder if "Under the Lake" and "Before the Flood" were written with a new, naive Companion in mind, since Jenna Coleman was thinking of leaving at the end of S8.  There was really nothing that Clara did in "Under the Lake" that was particular to her except for the cue cards part and the TARDIS conversation about finding a new hobby/relationship--as both of those scenes felt a little shoehorned in, maybe they were added to the script after Coleman decided to stay?  (That might explain how awkward they felt?  I actually liked the jokes in the cue cards, but that moment felt jarring, given how confident and in-charge the Doctor seemed in the rest of the episode.)

 

It really does feel like Clara has stayed on beyond her shelf life.

 

I didn't mind the clichéd yuppie because he got killed off so quickly.

 

I agree that technology should exist in the 22nd century that allows the deaf to communicate much more easily.  Even having her type into something that spoke for her would make sense.  But I get not wanting to lose the human element between her and her translator, which I think very much worked here.

Edited October 4, 2015 by benteen

[tv-talk]

I like that the Doctor was so enthused about finding ghosts even if in fact they are not ghosts and the Doctor should have surmised that fairly easily. My prediction for the conclusion is that Clara will basically be the equivalent of the Doctor and lead her group of people as if she was the Time Lord (i mean why should they listen to her? but they will). She'll flat out save the Doctor's life and his very existence, probably convince TARDIS to go somewhere the Doctor couldnt, but then right at the end they'll be one little random thing the Doctor (real one, not Clara) just somehow knows that basically does save the day at the last moment. Unfortunately the sunglasses will be involved.

 

Given my obviously low expectations all I ask is a semblance of intelligence in the plot and a resolution that makes sense with the rest of the episode. I want to like it!

[Mr. Simpatico]

This episode I really felt this way about Clara, she just seemed so smug. I would like to fanwank that, as a teacher, she has basically turned the Doctor into one of her students and that's why she looks so proud and boastful when he comes up with things and why she made him flashcards because, apparently, for the past few centuries he's been unable to relate to humans? The fuck? She is NOT cute. However, I adored her little dress this ep. I found it every bit as precious as anything she wore last season so I really don't see a shift in her style at all. She has always dressed like a child to me.

I think Clara would work for me more if the show/Moffat acknowledged more cleanly that she is a smug, arrogant know-it-all (or thinks she does at any rate). She's been written this way since the whole "Impossible Girl" thing (which has been dropped quickly and never acknowledged since) started. It's never entirely clear what the heck the Doctor sees in her. If she's not "the Impossible Girl" anymore what makes Clara special to the Doctor (as we clearly are supposed to believe). I know Moffat (and Davies before him) has this thing about Doctors being attached to their first companions after regenerations (Amy, Clara) or the directly previous companion (i.e. Rose) but that was never the case in Classic Who (who both writers are fans of). For instance, Two didn't have much of a pang at Polly/Ben leaving (and they were the first companions to witness his regeneration) and Six at first was disdainful and obnoxious to Peri. It doesn't HAVE to be that way, Moffat! And it's not like JC's fault. I still believe either Dalek!Oswin or Victorian!Clara would have made better companions and they were played by the same actress. 

 

I did like this episode though. It had an old-school feel of being a self-contained (in the olden days when the show was half-an-hour  it would have been a three-part serial) adventure. It was weird to see a tough, female, pilot/leader called Cass, willing to die for her crew and have the Doctor not even raise an eyebrow considering that name and background has significance to him (i.e. "The Night of the Doctor" also written by Moffat). It's not like's it a common name?

 

On the plus side, I do think this season they've finally gotten a personality down for Capaldi's 12 (though the sonic sunglasses are dumb). He has the older no-nonsense and not caring what anyone thinks of 1, the thirst for adventure and braggadocio of 3, and the arrogance of 6, and occasionally the guilt of whether he is a "good man" of 9 (although why we don't know since this incarnation knows he saved Gaillfrey). If you go by multiples of 3, he makes perfect sense. I think Capaldi's Doctor is what Colin Baker's could have been with a better outfit and the support of the BBC. A jerk with a heart of a hero. 

[sluggish neko]

oh and I believe this has been touched on before here and perhaps this is a very American perspective on things but having a black character killed immediately to start these episodes is very tone deaf. I mean come on, surely the writers get that.

Being a longtime fan of The Walking Dead, I'm used to this trope. I pretty much singled out Moran and Pritchard for death as soon as their characters were established. (TV writers are so predictable.) But I do agree, kicking off the second 2-parter with another black guy death is a bit much. At least this actor gets to stick around as a ghost.

 

There's a lot of talk about Clara's wardrobe, but I'm more focused on the Doctor. Since when does the Doctor run around in hoodies? Is it an attempt to make Capaldi appear younger? Is that why he now uses sonic sunglasses? To look cooler?  I just don't like it. It makes him look sloppy. And those sunglasses need to go the way of Eleven's fez.

 

Otherwise, loved Cass being in charge and the underwater base setting.

[Llywela]

in the olden days when the show was half-an-hour  it would have been a three-part serial

A modern day two-parter (2x50 minutes) is the equivalent of a traditional Classic four-parter (4x25 minutes). Three-part serials were fairly rare in the Classic era (until the McCoy era, when they became almost standard).

 

I agree with you about part of the problem with Clara being the tonal disconnect between the way she is written and the way I think she is meant to be perceived. She is obnoxious most of the time, but the writing seems to think her adorable. If her flaws are seen by the writing as cute quirks instead of being acknowledged as flaws, it does the character no favours. At least the guest characters weren't too impressed with her so far - she usually has them falling at her feet.

 

The Doctor's personality is settling a bit, but still gets sacrified for the sake of a joke or plot point from time to time (i.e. the flashcards), which makes for inconsistency. Being plot-driven has always been Clara's problem, as well. The personality of a character should not be built around what's convenient for the plot at the time. It should be clearly defined up front and used to shape the character's responses to the plot. Clara's never was, not until it was far too late - and the Doctor's wasn't either, not properly.

[clack]

There are basic story beats in a classic base-under-siege story, the first of which is that the outsiders (Fox and Mulder, Doctor and Companion) need to integrate into the pre-existing command and social structure.

This episode didn't do the integration phase in a dramatically satisfying way. Too skimpy and abrupt. The Doctor gives orders, the rest follow, even when the Doctor's schemes go awry. No one questioned that poorly conceived "Hey ghosts, stop following that guy and come follow me instead!" plan ?

[Mabinogia]

No one questioned that poorly conceived "Hey ghosts, stop following that guy and come follow me instead!" plan ?

 

To be honest, I didn't understand that plan at all. Was it to have a hologram at the end? Why not just have one of them lead them to the room then have the hologram? Why did so many have to be involved? I was really confused by that part. Could be that the music was too loud for me to hear an explanation. God I hate the sound on this show. I want to hear the lovely accents and, you know, be able to follow what is actually going on.

[pcta]

Stopped reading the review when you dissed Colin Baker - one of my favorite Doctors

[Terrafamilia]

There's a lot of talk about Clara's wardrobe, but I'm more focused on the Doctor. Since when does the Doctor run around in hoodies? Is it an attempt to make Capaldi appear younger? Is that why he now uses sonic sunglasses? To look cooler?  I just don't like it. It makes him look sloppy. And those sunglasses need to go the way of Eleven's fez.

So much this. Why did they ditch his snappy, classy, red lined Crombie coat?

[Starchild]

To make him look more like a teenager?

[call me ishmael]

There has been other times when the Tardis did not want to go where the Doctor wanted to go, since the "fix".  Trenzalore was one, the Tardis also took off when it was on the sinking Soviet sub.  While not consistent, it has happened before.

 

We got spoiled with NuWho having one episode adventures.  Original Who had serials, the Baker episodes have been in three parts. :0)

  

The TARDIS also tried to avoid/shake off Captain Jack in Utopia (S3), going all the way to the end of the universe to get away from him (but good thing she couldn't shake him, as Jack was delightful interacting with Ten and Martha)

Sure, but neither of those are really comparable as far as i can tell. In this case, SHE was trying to leave at first so the implication is that she was scared. In trenzalore she was trying to protect the doctor and with Jack maybe she just was afraid he would think she was sexy.

This one was way too much a contrivance to justify both having a two parter and to get to play with the image of the Doctor coming back as a ghost.

[ZoqFotPik]

 

 

No one questioned that poorly conceived "Hey ghosts, stop following that guy and come follow me instead!" plan ?

To be honest, I didn't understand that plan at all. Was it to have a hologram at the end? Why not just have one of them lead them to the room then have the hologram? Why did so many have to be involved? I was really confused by that part. Could be that the music was too loud for me to hear an explanation. God I hate the sound on this show. I want to hear the lovely accents and, you know, be able to follow what is actually going on.

I'm guessing they didn't want to risk one person running out of breath and slowing down, so they did a relay to make sure everyone was fresh. What I thought was dumb was that nobody considered that the ghosts would split up.

[Kalliste]

I thought this was a good ending because the Doctor can't be dead (at least not for long), so that means the ghosts aren't really ghosts, or, he'll figure out a way to bring them back to life (because he has to come back to life), and I'm eager to find out how.  It's better than the Missy/Clara cliffhanger in "The Magician's Apprentice," where we could figure out pretty easily how they survived the Dalek blasts.

 

 

That was a great moment--I love that Twelve is done with the self-doubting and thus able to "take charge" this series.

I didn't mind this episode, Clara was bearable and the Doctor took some control back from her. Obviously he isn't dead and he worked out what the 'ghosts' are and hopefully next episode is about his side of the problem and not Clara's. Or at least a bit of both.

 

I hope so. Maybe it's just me but I find Clara's gleeful delight in the face of other people's lives being in danger kind of unseemly. I wish there were a way to bring Donna back. I can't think of a single incarnation of the Doctor she wouldn't be great with, including this one.

 

Yeah, she was far too excited about the danger they were potentially in and that it could mean people had died.. I also which Donna could come back. She could redeem the Clara years.

There's a lot of talk about Clara's wardrobe, but I'm more focused on the Doctor. Since when does the Doctor run around in hoodies? Is it an attempt to make Capaldi appear younger? Is that why he now uses sonic sunglasses? To look cooler?  I just don't like it. It makes him look sloppy. And those sunglasses need to go the way of Eleven's fez.

 

Otherwise, loved Cass being in charge and the underwater base setting.

The Doctor has worn a hoodie/tshirt for at least all 3 episodes this season and some of them for last season too. I kind of like it, it makes more sense to wear comfortable clothes so you can run when in the face of danger than having a suit on with dress shoes.

[elle]

  

Sure, but neither of those are really comparable as far as i can tell. In this case, SHE was trying to leave at first so the implication is that she was scared. In trenzalore she was trying to protect the doctor and with Jack maybe she just was afraid he would think she was sexy.

This one was way too much a contrivance to justify both having a two parter and to get to play with the image of the Doctor coming back as a ghost.

Snerk!  Oh. I'm sure she knew that Jack thought she was sexy, he thinks everything is sexy, but the Doctor is the only one allowed to call her that. :0)

[Linderhill]

 

Count me out as someone who would ever want to see Donna back.  Too much screeching for my taste.

 

Agreed. She was god awful, and she's done. End of story.

I completely agree with both of you!  Donna grated on my nerves no end so I was thrilled when her tenure came to an end.  And on a more pertinent note and apparently another unpopular opinion, I actually like Clara.  But then I seem to like the companions that others don't and dislike those that other viewers love.  (I loved Martha but Amy annoyed the crap out of me. )

[Bruinsfan]

I wonder if the TARDIS' objection could have been more about the brainwashing script interfering with its translating abilities/link with the Doctor than the ghosts themselves. You'd think if violations of the natural order freaked it out so much the Cloister Bell would have been deafening everyone whenever there were multiple Doctors around or when Rose or Rory or Amy's timelines looped around on themselves.

[clack]

The decoy relay made for a fun sequence. Good writing, however, would have made a fun sequence make sense.

That's my biggest knock against Doctor Who. The plots are structured around a cool concept or a striking image or sequence, but the writing doesn't do the hard work of making these cool ideas make narrative sense. It's all dream logic, fairy tale logic.

[Ringthane]

I wonder if the TARDIS' objection could have been more about the brainwashing script interfering with its translating abilities/link with the Doctor than the ghosts themselves. You'd think if violations of the natural order freaked it out so much the Cloister Bell would have been deafening everyone whenever there were multiple Doctors around or when Rose or Rory or Amy's timelines looped around on themselves.

 

Or what if she was worried that not only would the Doctor die, but there would actually be more than one ghost of him out there?  What if whatever makes the ghosts was able to tap into his mind and find all 13 of his former selves - the ghosts were almost able to get a ride on the sub with just the ghost Twelve's message (since the other ghosts were all in the Fararday cage at the time, weren't they?  Or else it was the day cycle or something?).  Imagine what havoc they could wreak with 14 of him running around.  Since we don't know exactly how the ghost thing works, it's feasible that whatever does it could make the mistake of thinking that his past selves are actually dead people and make ghosts out of them.

 

Just a thought I had.

[SVNBob]

The 22nd century and still no devices that would allow a deaf person to hear and talk? And correct me if I'm wrong, but only one member of her crew can interpret sign language? How can you put someone in charge if she can't communicate with the crew except through a 3rd party, especially in a high-risk situation involving an undersea nuclear reactor?

Technically, she wasn't in charge of the crew; at least, not at first.  She was apparently second-in-command, directly under Moran.  But when he died saving her from the engines she couldn't hear, she became the leader.  But the fact that no one made any deal out of it, other than the fact that their former leader and friend was dead, is encouraging.

 

(Side-note:  Yes, the fact that both stories have started with a black male dying first is somewhat troubling.  But there are a couple positive notes for both.  One, the roles are fairly race- and gender-neutral, so any actor could have played those roles.  They just happened to cast black men in both, presumably because they were the best actors for the jobs.  Two, both deaths are "noble".  The first one died trying to save a child from a minefield during a war.  The second died saving his friend and colleague from a danger she was unaware of.)

 

I'm calling it now - the reason Greedy Businessman Ghost didn't kill the interpreter with the wrench is because Cass didn't let him inside the ship, so he hasn't seen the coordinates. No signal, no point.

Absolutely.   He'll be part of the solution once someone figures this out.

 

It also makes sense for his character to exist now, instead of having a technological method to interpret for Cass.  It'd be more difficult to justify leaving any other character out of the spaceship and not seeing the symbols.  But because his primary duty is as her interpreter, she had more control over him before she had to take full command.  So her being able to keep him out of the ship makes more sense given his job.

 

There's only two other types of characters that could fit the role of the non-"infected" in this story.  One is a child, which would be really hard to justify in the circumstances.  The other would be a blind person...which makes the ghosts' appearance interesting...

 

 

I'm still kind of confused why the "ghosts" seem to conform to the base's computer-controlled day/night cycle.  If the "ghosts" only come out at night -- and the night time is artificially created, that makes me think that the "ghosts" are also artificially created by something the computer is controlling associated with the artificial daytime/nighttime cycle.  And what that has to do with the alien spaceship and a Victorian-dressed alien "ghost" I have no idea.

They did say that the other difference between the day and night modes (other than the light levels) was that there were regular and constant diagnostics on the magnetic locks on the doors during day.  And the Doctor did note that the "ghosts" could only move metal objects.  (Even the plastic chair that Greedy Businessman Ghost lifted had metal legs, and he was holding it by those).  Plus, he referred to the symbols as "magnets", which is not the best analogy.  So there's something to do with magnetic forces with these ghosts.

 

That also explains why the Faraday cage was a safe haven/trap.  They said it was lead-lined, and lead is one of the least magnetic metals.

[BizBuzz]

I don't do well with drowning/under water stuff, no mater what show/movie, but I made it through this one ... and I gotta say, I really liked it.

 

I loved the whole deaf/interpreter dynamic.  That was fun!

 

I busted a gut when the Doctor said something about Shirley Bassey (Goldfinger)!

 

The story kept me intrigued all the way through and the ensemble worked well together.  Can't wait for next week!

[darkestboy]

Great episode.

 

The ghosts were menacing enough, cliff hanger solid and the crew engaging.

 

Cass, Lunn, O'Donnell and Bennett all worked as guest characters.

 

Liked that the Doctor has picked up on Clara's reckless streak this series.

 

I guess it'll be the Doctor in that chamber though, 8/10

[proserpina65]

Quote

One of the Doctor's cards stated "I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN YOU DIDN'T LIVE IN ABERDEEN."  That's a reference to where he accidentally left Sarah Jane after they parted ways.

I know this was just meant to be a funny little in-joke, but I thought it was stupid. Partly because...the Doctor always knew Sarah didn't live in Aberdeen, he thought he was dropping her off in Croydon - he got the landing wrong, not the city. But mainly because...that was a one-off thing that happened in a previous incarnation and was resolved in a different previous incarnation, so there is absolutely no reason Clara would have made him a flash card for it. And he shouldn't need flash cards anyway. Way to dumb the character down and remove any shred of dignity he had left for the sake of a joke.

 

I thought it was funny as hell myself.  And I like little callbacks to previous incarnations, particular old school Who.  I didn't see it as dumbing down at all.

 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Does Doctor Who's Clara Dress In Vintage For A Reason, And Is It A Mad Man In A Box?
Clara is dressed to hang out with the wrong 1960s-based TV character. Or is she?

[Ringthane]

One of the Doctor's cards stated "I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN YOU DIDN'T LIVE IN ABERDEEN."  That's a reference to where he accidentally left Sarah Jane after they parted ways.

 

Didn't he drop Clara off in Aberdeen by mistake at some point?  I remember something being said about Aberdeen at some point in Twelve's run.  I know there was a recent reference to it.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Ringthane

[tennisgurl]

Finally saw the episode. I thought it was a good one, a nice classic adventure episode. 

 

Clara was certainly a lot more keen to adventure than usual. I thought she was fun and clever, but was still in a supporting role. That, in my opinion, is how Clara works best. Not as a plot device, but as a supporting character to the Doctors here. Almost like his...companion, if you will. 

 

I liked the supporting cast a lot, they were well acting and quite likable. I especially liked Cassie and her interpreter. Its good to see a deaf person on TV, especially without the episode making a big deal of it.

 

The ghosts were pretty dang creepy. Plus, the claustrophobia was legitimately quite unnerving. It had a good mood and created atmosphere, which I feel has been kind of missing lately (except the scene of baby Davros and the field of hands).  

 

All in all, a good adventure with some good scares and laughs, and I`m pumped to see how they close this adventure up. 

[Galileo908]

I thought the ghosts looked cool.  The one with the hat reminded me of a character from the Haunted Mansion at Disneyland.

 

"Don't pick up hitchhiking ghosts" was what I've been saying since I saw the preview for this one.

 

I'm going to agree with everyone else, this was a good one and can't wait to see how The Doctor gets out of this one.

[John Potts]

Galileo908 "Don't pick up hitchhiking ghosts"

 

Words to live by, really!

[azshadowwalker]

I completely agree with both of you!  Donna grated on my nerves no end so I was thrilled when her tenure came to an end.  And on a more pertinent note and apparently another unpopular opinion, I actually like Clara.  But then I seem to like the companions that others don't and dislike those that other viewers love.  (I loved Martha but Amy annoyed the crap out of me. )

 

I like Clara, as well. I don't like the idea that a companion must be an insecure little girl who gives up "control" to the Very Important Man in her life. I'm perfectly fine with that dynamic staying dead and gone in the past. I also found Amy incredibly annoying. That said, I loved Donna and would happily see her back. I'm just not sure I'd want her to be in the world of Moffat and sonic sunglasses.

 

I'm neither hating nor loving this season. I quit watching shortly into Eleven's run. I am finding this season better than his tenure. The best thing I can say about the episode is that not focusing on Naughty Missy was a big relief. This show is just no longer appointment TV.

[whoknowswho]

I like Clara, as well. I don't like the idea that a companion must be an insecure little girl who gives up "control" to the Very Important Man in her life. I'm perfectly fine with that dynamic staying dead and gone in the past. I also found Amy incredibly annoying. That said, I loved Donna and would happily see her back. I'm just not sure I'd want her to be in the world of Moffat and sonic sunglasses.

 

I'm neither hating nor loving this season. I quit watching shortly into Eleven's run. I am finding this season better than his tenure. The best thing I can say about the episode is that not focusing on Naughty Missy was a big relief. This show is just no longer appointment TV.

 

It's interesting to me how different people see and like different Doctors, different companions, and how everyone picks up on different things.  

I honestly loved Donna. The "Oy", the attitude, her dad. I loved her and I loved 10--there is not one episode I haven't watched over and over. I also loved 11, and Amy and Rory.

Clara- I liked her in Asylum of the Daleks, but the whole love affair has soured.  I just couldn't love her character- maybe because I really liked Amy, I'm not sure. I didn't care for Martha, either.  

 

Last season I HATED, hated it. Not Capaldi- he's quite awesome. I like his personna.  I'm older and I think he's a great Doctor. But I hated the season, with the exception of the Robots of Sherwood--in that, I liked Clara and the Doctor. Many didn't like that episode, but it's one I have watched twice- the rest of the season I haven't. Much of the time it's because I can't hear the dialog.

 

This season- with the exception of the low talking/loud music, I've actually liked the few episodes so far. 12 has softened around the edges a bit, I miss the sonic but he rocks shades and a guitar so I'll overlook it for now.  I still want Special Snowflake to go away, because I'm just tired of her. She's a lovely girl and a good actress but I don't like her character.  Although I actually like her better with 12 overall than with 11...not sure why.

 

Now- who I really want to see again- is River. How she sees this doctor for the first time- how their relationship changes or doesn't- that will interest me. I like her character and her story arc from the first episode I saw her in.

 

 Anyway--Looking forward to seeing the second installment of this episode. Some parts were too rushed and then other parts lagged, quirks of this story writer I guess...

[Llywela]

I like Clara, as well. I don't like the idea that a companion must be an insecure little girl who gives up "control" to the Very Important Man in her life. I'm perfectly fine with that dynamic staying dead and gone in the past.

That's a bit of a straw man argument, because no one has ever said that's how Clara should be, and nor has that ever been the standard dynamic between Doctor and companion.

[cardigirl]

That's a bit of a straw man argument, because no one has ever said that's how Clara should be, and nor has that ever been the standard dynamic between Doctor and companion.

Well, a lot of the strong feeling against Clara (that I've read) was that her character was too bossy, controlling, and take charge, instead of following the Doctor with little to no argument. Last year it seemed that all I read was OUTRAGE over Clara daring to tell the Doctor how to behave. So I think it is a fair point.

And to get back to this episode, I felt it was closer to old Who than any of the shows since Moffat started running the show. That doesn't mean I liked it more, some of my favorite episodes of NuWho have been during his tenure, but I could sense the style change. And I did enjoy this episode. Not sure it will add much to the mythology of the Doctor, but I'm intrigued enough to want to see the resolution.

I like to see the relationship between the Doctor and his companions but old Who didn't seem to develop that as much as NuWho has. Part of that was the start with the romance developing between Doctor and Rose, and continued on from there. If the trajectory now is to focus more on individual adventures, okay, I'll watch, but for me, the companions and the Doctor are the core reason to watch.

[jcin617]

I'm instantly suspicious of the "I'll just nip back in time to solve the problem" because it begs the question of "Why not ALWAYS do that?" so TPTB normally come up with reasons why it isn't possible (Fixed Points, Blinovitch Limitations or whatever).

Normally he can't do that because fixing a problem in the past would change his own timeline (eliminating the reason he got involved in the first place), which he can't do (or is not supposed to do).   Going back to find out where something is or why it is the way it is, seems like it would be OK (and yes, seems like something he could do more often) so long as he corrects the issue in "present" and not the "past".

[polyhymnia]

I am neutral about Clara.  I think she and Amy are almost too similar - they needed someone different between them or something.  Her character suffers from plotting, writing, and dramatic shifts in direction.  I think JC does a good job with the material.

 

This episode was fun and more like old episodes, like everyone has said.  That is not necessarily a positive IMO because I am more of a new who fan than an old one (I used to suffer through Doctors 4 and 5 on PBS - my mother and brother loved them - because Degrassi, the original Degrassi, came on after) but I think I appreciate old who much more than I did back then.  I actually watched some of the Morbius one that aired on Sunday.  Mostly to gawk at the ridiculous costume, but still.

 

I like Capaldi, though.  I think he's really settling into his Doctor.

[tennisgurl]

I generally like Clara, even though I feel like she has stayed on a little too long. I like her best as spunky and adventurous and just a little bossy. I did not like when it seems like being a companion was an annoying bother on her social life. That was my least favorite Clara time. 

 

Amy and Rory, as a team, are still my favorites. 

[JayEeeBee]

I thought it was funny as hell myself.  And I like little callbacks to previous incarnations, particular old school Who.  I didn't see it as dumbing down at all.

 

My daughter and I paused the DVR and slowly advanced it frame by frame several times so we could read the cards, laughing at each one as we did.  We didn't see it as dumbing down either.  We also liked his tone when he turned around to "read" from the chosen card.

 

Regarding Clara - I still don't like her.  I've also thought she has overstayed her welcome and the whole "Impossible Girl" incarnation should have ended with "The Name of the Doctor".  That would have made sense.  I'm sure JC is a lovely person, but the character is nothing but devisive, arrogant and controlling.

 

My argument is starting to get away from me.  Suffice to say, I'm safely on the "Go Away Clara Couch"; however, in this episode, Casa JayEeeBee enjoyed how she was written very much.  The Doctor reclaimed who piloted the Tardis and who was the Companion.  And it was about time.

Edited October 8, 2015 by JayEeeBee

[Sunnydayman]

I'm not a great fan of the Capaldi Doctor but he is just acting like usually does ... a bit of a nutter. I don't really view Clara as bossy. Amy was certainly more so. How anyone could find either Donna or River interesting I will never understand.

The Doctor is seldom concerned about putting the lives of others in jeopardy. Clara seems to have been infected by the adventure over reason virus. Her character is certainly less likable this season so that maybe the showrunner's method of prepping us for her departure. Hopefully she gets a better send off than Adric.

[elle]

 

Hopefully she gets a better send off than Adric.

Well, he certainly did get a memorable send off!

[whoknowswho]

I'm not a great fan of the Capaldi Doctor but he is just acting like usually does ... a bit of a nutter. I don't really view Clara as bossy. Amy was certainly more so. How anyone could find either Donna or River interesting I will never understand.

The Doctor is seldom concerned about putting the lives of others in jeopardy. Clara seems to have been infected by the adventure over reason virus. Her character is certainly less likable this season so that maybe the showrunner's method of prepping us for her departure. Hopefully she gets a better send off than Adric.

 

That's the beauty of Doctor Who- we all like different characters, different episodes, and different doctors- and that doesn't make me crazy for liking River or Donna- or you crazy for not liking them.  My first exposure as an adult to Doctor Who was during 11 and Amy's time- so that colours my experiences and judgement. I liked them, I don't think that's anything wrong with that.

[HouseofBeck]

So I took the conversation in the TARDIS to be the doctor telling clara 'hey i'm the doctor, not you." Am I offbase on that? Then he brought it around to looking out for her well being (which hopefully means she is going to die this season) but his initial point was that HE decides if they are going back outside the TARDIS and if a situation is too dangerous etc etc.

 

I agree. It was a long-overdue comeuppance for the Clara character. In general, I am really enjoying the toned-down quality of Capaldi's Doctor (is he getting more creative input?) and how Clara isn't the focus anymore. Or at least so far.

 

Just as with the first two episodes, I'm looking forward to tonight's ep. This is such a relief as I'd checked out last season, and during the latter half of Smith. I didn't WANT Who to be not for me anymore, but it sure was feeling that way. I'm hoping they keep the Classic Who feel for awhile longer.

 

I did wish they'd asked--or that the character herself would have realized--that the one person who might just be very good at lip-reading should have been already doing it. I was also shouting at the screen for them not to risk the one guy who can interpret for her (I was quite worried he'd get ghosted).

 

On a Classic Who note, I am seriously considering writing an open letter to BBC. I love seeing Tom Baker eps on the TV (even though I have all the DVDs by now). What I don't love is the way they shaved off a nuance here, an actually-important-part-of-the-plot there, and in general chopped off enough to fit in an insane amount of commercials. Anyone watching those eps for the first time through this medium is going to miss so much. Bleargh!

[Sunnydayman]

No offense intended. I started as a kid with Tom Baker so he was my favorite for ages. Tine has changed my opinion somewhat.

That's the beauty of Doctor Who- we all like different characters, different episodes, and different doctors- and that doesn't make me crazy for liking River or Donna- or you crazy for not liking them. My first exposure as an adult to Doctor Who was during 11 and Amy's time- so that colours my experiences and judgement. I liked them, I don't think that's anything wrong with that.

No offense intended. I started as a kid with Tom Baker so he was my favorite for ages. Time has changed my opinion somewhat. Edited October 14, 2015 by Sunnydayman

[whoknowswho]

No offense intended. I started as a kid with Tom Baker so he was my favorite for ages. Tine has changed my opinion somewhat.

None taken. I remember Tom Baker from the first time around, but never could go back and watch Classic Who--my sister loved it and got me hooked on Nu Who but Classic Who not so much.  

:)

[AudienceofOne]

So... liked Donna (mostly because Catherine Tate never holds back on her performances and always gives 110%), thought Amy at the end was actually offensive, and find the continued existence of Clara perplexing.

 

But on to it... didn't mind this episode except for the juvenile insistence on calling these creatures "ghosts". They're not ghosts. For a start, ghosts don't exist. More importantly, if they did exist they wouldn't be translucent MP3s delivering a message on repeat. So, there's that.

 

Also, in the 12th Doctor's regularly rotating set of personalities "complete dick" is my least favourite.