S31.E02: Survivor MacGyver

[truthaboutluv]

The Abi fight didn't explain why Kelley went against Shirin and Spencer.

 

 

I assume you're talking about Kelley Wentworth and if so, she explained her vote in her talking head. She wanted to work with Shirin and Spencer but the numbers changed and she felt she had to protect herself and vote with the majority. She actually said in her talking head that she wasn't sure why the numbers changed. 

[Zuleikha]

Like this week, even Shirin played along that she deserved to go for a big social misstep.  But like you said she didn't even believe that, she says now in interviews.  She blames Terry for tattling on her to Varner.

I read her interviews as saying more that it was all connected. I also don't think she blamed Terry; she blamed herself for not listening to Kelley and going against Varner.

 

But it is a good point that we don't know how much Abi's turn really affected things. Given that we know Varner wanted Spencer or Shirin out and to re-allign with Shelter, Beach never had the numbers they thought they did. So if Shirin had gone to Abi or never been overheard in the first place, we would have had Shirin/Spencer/Kelley/Abi targeting Terry and Woo/Terry/Kelly/Varner targeting either Shirin or Spencer. Based on the sneak clip of PG, it's hard to say which alliance PG would have gone with. She liked Varner/Kelly/Woo better than Shirin/Spencer but if Shirin's interviews are accurate, PG didn't like Terry. But if PG did go with Shelter, Varner may have pulled Kelley in, too, just as he did this go round. So it's possible that the Abi fight saved Terry and cost Shirin, but it's entirely possible that it didn't change anything other than which person was the one to receive votes and not go home.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Zuleikha

[kikaha]

I don't take anything Shirin says at face value.  Especially now, when the Survivor world sees her booted 2nd, and she's in major spin mode to contain the damage. 

[ozlsn]

The problem is she's likely to fuck over people you do like.

 

She reminds me of professional poker players talking about how hard it is to play with a novice at the table.  They are so unpredictable that the pros can't figure out a strategy to deal with them.

 

I hate the people who play the "take care of me" card all the time - maybe she'll get put on a tribe with Ciera, catch whatever she's got, and get med-evaced out.  Ciera looked like death warmed over.

 

I have to say Abi brought to mind John Weaver's quote about the Republican presidential debates:

“Imagine a NASCAR driver mentally preparing for a race knowing one of the drivers will be drunk. That’s what prepping for this debate is like.”

 

Except I think Abi has more than just booze going on there.

[Zuleikha]

Is that what she said in other exit interviews?

Yeah, I'm tired and not up for trying to re-find the interviews to link or quote, but as I remember it she said Kelley warned her not to try to get Old School (maybe even Terry specifically? I can't remember) to vote out Varner and acknowledged that she should have listened. As best as I can figure out the sequence, the conversation with Abi was what caused Shirin and Spencer to know they were potential targets. Shirin tried to flip the vote on Varner on the basis of his unreliability but of course failed, resulting in her boot. But she only tried to flip the vote on Varner after the conversation with Abi. Prior to that, she was targeting Terry with (she thought) the rest of her Beach alliance. She thinks Terry would have been out had the Abi blow up not happened, but as I posted above, I'm less sure.

[pennben]

I think this is the interview you were thinking of Zuleikha. In relevant part:

 

 

“He started gunning for Spencer after we voted Vytas out,” she says, “and nobody liked living with Abi-Maria, so she was also on the chopping block. Now all the sudden I’m looking at voting out either Spencer or Abi, and I’m thinking, ‘This is wrong. Varner has just totally turned on us.'”

 

After reaching that conclusion, Shirin felt she had to turn the tables against Varner — and in order to pull that off, she felt that she needed to work with the Shelter People she already voted against. But Kelley Wentworth, one of Shirin’s closest allies, advised against the move. “Bless her heart, she was right,” says Shirin. “She knew those people would not work with me and they would rat me out. I was like, ‘No! No, I can do this, because this is right! This is rational! He screwed them over, now he’s screwing us over. If they’re rational players, they will do this!’ And Wentworth was like, ‘No, don’t do it!'”

 

Despite Wentworth’s warning, Shirin went ahead and approached the old schoolers with the idea — and just as Voldemort casting Avada Kedavra with the Elder Wand became his undoing, Shirin also found herself on the receiving end of a rebounded killing curse.

“I reached over to the other side and I tried getting Terry and those guys to get Varner out — and ultimately, Varner still had them,” she says. “Even though he screwed them over on the first vote, he was able to mend fences and win them back over. They ratted me out to Varner, and Varner knew I was coming for him. I was caught red-handed. That’s when he decided to vote me out instead of Spencer.”

In order to survive, Shirin had absolutely no choice but to vote against Spencer, and vice versa — a development she describes as “heartbreaking.”

 

I'm not sure where the Abi conversation with Shirin fits in.  Based on this interview, it feels like it was after Shirin messed up over trying to take out Varner, and Shirin was trying to get Abi to vote out Spencer not her.

Edited October 5, 2015 by pennben

[phlebas]

Happily, it seems like there's a much more layered and nuanced game going on behind the bright lights of Abi's childishness.

 

Unhappily, it looks like we won't be seeing any of it as long as Abi's still on TV.

[pricklypear]

The puzzle still baffles me. I also think that there had to have been much more to Andrew's story about his wife. I kept waiting for him to say she was dead, too. When I watched it again, it looked like all of them had gotten very involved in the story and many of them were tearing up. It was when Andrew said something about her coming back and then Kimmy said, "She came back!" that made me think there was something a little more to her leaving and being in California. 

[LadyChatts]

I'm wondering if Andrew will get asked that during the press circuit whenever he is booted, or at the reunion show.  It did seem oddly pieced together, and I wonder if it was done on purpose to make Andrew look shallow (rather than they wanted to include it but couldn't put in everything).

 

About Shirin, I think she's too much of a superfan for her own good.  She can't just sit back and relax and enjoy, she has to be strategizing every second of every minute of every hour of every day, and to her, that's the game.  I like how she keeps referencing having people to play with, because it sounds like some petty 3rd grader who wasn't getting their own way and was eventually shunned from the group.  Not realizing that maybe they were shunned for a reason, but no, it is everyone else's fault.  She lacked that same self awareness last season.  Even after the Max boot, she still seemed to be annoying people.  I bet if it weren't for Dan and the Will blow up we would have likely seen it.  I really wish they would show the whole Will fight, because I've always felt there was way more to that as well.

[Zuleikha]

pennben, yeah, that sounds right. And points to again, what we were talking about the importance of recognizing social dynamics. Shirin's problem was that she didn't recognize Woo/Wigles/Terry (and probably also PG) had no interest in voting out Varner, which makes him a horrible target. She should have either sacrificed Abi in the first place (since she was having such a tough time dealing with Abi and sharing common cause with Old School could help build bridges for the future), or she should have picked Abi as the choice for a replacement target when she knew Varner had flipped back. It may have changed nothing, but it may have actually worked.

 

Meanwhile, Kelley apparently can read a room. I like her, so hopefully that bodes well for her longevity in the game.

[Way Wes Jr]

That was a fun episode while being watched, but really low impact overall.  (Unless you are Shirin or Spencer.)

 

Bayon (Purple/Pink)

 

DoucheBro alliance apparently in charge?  Check.  Stephen on the outs?   Check.  No sign of Monica? Check.  Joe being presented as a Golden Survivor God?  Check.  Why did we even bother getting any footage of them this week?

 

1. Andrew (1)
2. Jeremy (2)  Top two of the Love Tribe, and we’re not getting anything from anyone else to suggest otherwise.

 

3. Keith (5)
4. Joe (4)  Keith hopscotches as the unthreatening, loyal vote.

 

5. Cierra (3) She doesn’t look good. (Health-wise.)  Of course, we don’t know why, because all of the cameras are pointed at the folk with penises.

 

6. Tasha (6)
7. Monica (7) I remembered her this week!
8. Kimmi (8)
9. Kass (9)
10. Stephen (10)  Seriously, Kimmi says, “Maybe Stephen is looking for the idol,” and it’s accepted as a sign of his untrustworthiness.  Stephen says, “Maybe Jeremey is looking for an idol,” and it’s a sign that he (Stephen,) has no morals.  I don’t “do” hashtags, nor do I particularly like Eliza, but #EffAndrewSavage.

 

Ta Keo (Blue)

 

1. Kelley (1)  Still has an idol, still voted with the majority.  She also was mentioned as one of the players Varner reached out to before the season started.  (Though not as part of his ‘conference call,’ group.)

 

2. Jeff (6)  I still think he is playing “too hard, too soon,” but there is no denying his place in the power structure on this tribe.  We didn’t get the “nightvision” post-tribal conversations, which make me question the time line as presented.  I can believe that Jeff told Terry and Kelly that he needed to avoid the tie, and get rid of a threat, and “teach them that they had to play ‘new-school,’” but did he present Spencer (and Shirin,) as the big threat the day after tribal?  Before he had Abi?  The numbers don’t quite work out - but as soon as Terry “white knighted,” Abi, the pendulum moved 5-4 to the shelter crowd.

 

3. Kelly (4)
4. Terry (5)
5. Woo (7)
6. Abi-Maria (8)  I mentioned that with two exceptions this was an uneventful week.

7. Peih-Gee (9) While you dodged the Abi-bomb this week, she does seem to have an axe to grind with you.

 

8. Spenser (3)  I don’t think Jeff liked being the third (or fourth) strategic mind in the tribe behind you and Shirin, (and Kelley?,) and the Terry/Abi bonding gave him the opportunity to swing the tribe back to the lines he envisioned for his pre-show alliance.  It would appear that Abi was given the choice on whom to evict, and she choose Shirin.

 

OUT  Shirin (2)  Abi thought you had an alliance, and you didn’t hold her hand throughout your time together on the beach.  You know what you’re getting with Abi-Maria:  You made your bed, and she lit fire to it.

 

(Please see the Grassy Knoll / Tinfoil Hat thread for additional thoughts on the Spencer/ Shirin boot.)

[Jersey Guy 87]

Providers/gatherers usually wind up doing a lot of work and not getting credit for it, and not getting any rest. I think Sue Hawk dug up a small boatload of tapioca root for the Season 1 people. We see where that got her.

 

Richard Hatch made it a point to monopolize the spear gun and be seen as the provider, and he won the game.  But that was a different time - people were really worried about getting enough food (doesn't seem to be as much of a problem any more) and most of the people playing had no real strategy outside of "don't get voted out."  Being the provider as a means of staying in the game hasn't worked in a long time and often backfires.  I think Joe has way overplayed his hand with this stuff.

[Hera]

I'm not sure if it's overplaying his hand, but I doubt anyone will keep him around out of gratitude or concern that they won't be able to survive without him. This was true on his original season and it's even more true with seasoned players. We've already had the talking head from Stephen that Joe is the person you want around at the beginning to build the shelter and help you win challenges, and then you dump him at the merge.

[rose711]

Let's figure out who will target Joe. I think I would keep him on my side because he could eliminate all the other immunity threats. <br />Would Stephen target Joe over Savage or Jeremy? <br />I think Joe is a target but he is also not a strategist and he isn't "playing hard."<br />On his current tribe I see this order of players as targets:<br />Kass<br />Stephen<br />Savage<br />Jeremy<br />Tasha<br />Ciera<br />Then Joe<br />I just feel the schemer s are going to be targeted first.<br />After a swap I don't see him targeted because on a six person tribe he could be the difference of winning every challenge. Avoiding tribal council when you only have 6 people is very important.<br /><br />I see him making the merge and still not being a huge target, at least not until the schemer s are gone. He also benefits from Shirin being voted out, because people saw them as a possible pair.

[NutMeg]

She says she knew from day 1 that half her tribe wouldn't work with her.  She may as well just blame it on that.  She went in a target because of lack of tribe-valuable skills.  Funny she compares herself to Joe, who nearly everyone thinks won't go far BECAUSE of his Joey Amazing thing.  

 

“Vytas, Woo, Wiglesworth, Terry — the four of them were never, ever, ever going to work with me. I’m not Joey Amazing. I’m not this tall attractive super-athletic fire-making person that everybody is going to want to instantly align with, at least in the beginning of the game.

This proves that she cannot adapt to people but rather picks and chooses who she can work with. Which to me means she doesn't understand this game. I don't think there is any Survivor winner who didn't at some point work closely with someone they didn't have much in common with and were not planning on being allied with till the end (or didn't even like). I still think adaptability, versatility, and a willingness (and capacity) to go beyond the obvious is what makes the difference. YMMV (Shirin's) etc.

 

I remember an interview of Parvati's (can't remember who she was interviewing) aftermath (if that was the name, not sure) where someone exposed that great strategy they had going into the game, and how it all went to dust, and she replied that she never went into any season with a strategy, she was just waiting to see how it looked it was going to play and then went with the flow (paraphrasing, obviously), and I think THAT is probably the key to winning. I'd be happy to take this to a best winners or best social players thread :-) 

[Alapaki]

“Vytas, Woo, Wiglesworth, Terry — the four of them were never, ever, ever going to work with me. I’m not Joey Amazing. I’m not this tall attractive super-athletic fire-making person that everybody is going to want to instantly align with, at least in the beginning of the game.

 

 

I agree with Nutmeg.  This quote shows an absolute ignorance about the dynamic going on in the game.  And wasn't Shirin's deal last time that she was supposedly some super-fan?

 

It has to be obvious to everyone out there that Joe should have a target on his back.  The fact that he's still there just means, imo, that there have been lower-hanging fruit (i.e. elimination decisions that had easy consensus) around.  

 

Shirin didn't need Vytas, Woo Wigglesworth and Terry to "work with" her.  She just needed them not to target her.  Those are two different things.

 

I think Abi is a hand-grenade with the pin pulled.  You can either take hold of it and purposely toss it into the enemy tribe, or you can ignore it and leave it on the ground for the enemy to pick up and toss at you.

[wonald]

Yes, I've been waiting for Shirin to go all Hantz-mode and go 'there is a FLAW in the game' since "stupid people who shouldnt think" get to play it as well as "smart, rational" players like herself. The NERVE!

[Zuleikha]

This proves that she cannot adapt to people but rather picks and chooses who she can work with. Which to me means she doesn't understand this game.

Vytas/Terry/Wigles/Varner had a pre-game alliance. I'm not sure if Woo was involved or joined during the shelter build, although I think the latter. What Shirin means is that the above (minus Varner) literally were not going to work with her because they were a closed alliance. That's why PG voted out Vytas in the first vote. Per Shirin's account, PG wanted to work with Shelter but Terry flat out told her he had all of his votes, which is why PG ended up going to Beach. This is backed up by a bonus clip with PG where she talks about being sad she had to vote out Shirin but also okay with it because she trusts (or feels more comfortable with? can't remember) Wigles, Woo, and Varner more than Shirin/Spencer.

 

Shirin did try to work with Old School. We know factually that she was happy to work with them to vote with Varner if they'd been willing to work with her. They weren't, which I don't blame them because she didn't give them a good reason to do it. She hasn't sounded bitter or resentful to me when talking about this... more matter of fact. 

 

It has to be obvious to everyone out there that Joe should have a target on his back.  The fact that he's still there just means, imo, that there have been lower-hanging fruit (i.e. elimination decisions that had easy consensus) around.

His tribe hasn't gone to Tribal Council yet, so it means nothing. We know very little about Bayon's inner workings since we haven't seen any relationships tested, so we have no idea whether Joe has a target on his back or not. Post merge, it will probably depend on whether he's part of a majority alliance with suballiances. I don't expect him to do so because he didn't demonstrate that type of ability last season, but people can surprise in return trips.

[Lamb18]

Re Savage's story about meeting his wife:

He tells it like it's like this epic love story on par with Aragorn and Elf Princess (Galadriel?) from the Ring Trilogy, and that even though model wife will lose her immortality by marrying him, he is so worth it and she wins by marrying him.

[rose711]

I don't know how Shirin can know that Vytas, Terry ,Kelly and Varner would never work with her, since Varner actually did. How does she know Varner couldn't pull someone with him?

And it's obvious she never bothered to pretend to include Woo in her alliance. He meneioned he couldn't talk to them because they segregated their group and were all out on the beach, but he couldn't walk out to join them because of cuts on his feet.

Re Savage's story about meeting his wife:

He tells it like it's like this epic love story on par with Aragorn and Elf Princess (Galadriel?) from the Ring Trilogy, and that even though model wife will lose her immortality by marrying him, he is so worth it and she wins by marrying him.

Arwen. Galadriel is her grandmother.

[ProfCrash]

Shirin tried talking to Terry and Kelly and they blew her off. Peih Gee told them that Terry said that she could be the fifth in his alliance and Kelly told Shirin that Terry had said she could be the fifth in the alliance if she swore on her mother. So the Beach alliance was trying to work with Terry and he flat out blew them off. Shirin tried talking and working with Kelly but she blew Shirin off.

 

Terry, Kelly and Jeff were comfortable with their alliance. Jeff had never talked to Vytas and so was fine with getting rid of Vytas. Terry told Vytas that Jeff was with them but Jeff had not signed onto the Vytas element. I think he realized that Shirin was right and that Vytas was going to be dangerous down the line. Since Jeff did not have an alliance with Vytas, he probably figured he would not be seen as a valued member of Vytas's pregame alliance and so tookt he oppertunity to get rid of Vytas and wake up Kelly and Terry.

 

I have no idea how Woo worked into the alliance, no one has mentioned Woo in pregame alliances.

[ljenkins782]

 

Vytas/Terry/Wigles/Varner had a pre-game alliance. I'm not sure if Woo was involved or joined during the shelter build, although I think the latter. What Shirin means is that the above (minus Varner) literally were not going to work with her because they were a closed alliance. That's why PG voted out Vytas in the first vote. Per Shirin's account, PG wanted to work with Shelter but Terry flat out told her he had all of his votes, which is why PG ended up going to Beach. This is backed up by a bonus clip with PG where she talks about being sad she had to vote out Shirin but also okay with it because she trusts (or feels more comfortable with? can't remember) Wigles, Woo, and Varner more than Shirin/Spencer.

Re: the bolded part...really, Terry?? If that's true, he's a moron. Why would you turn away a vote/alliance member just because you have enough for now? They could easily be the bottom rung that you cut loose when you need to, but why not have as many people on your side as possible to start out with??

[Hera]

No kidding, @ljenkins782. Having a huge majority also helps keep people from flipping—part of the reason why I think no one saved Shirin (despite several people in the majority alliance being amenable to getting Abi out) was because it was a 7-2 split. If you wanted to flip, you'd need to be confident that at least two other people were doing it with you, which is pretty rare in this game.

[Special K]

I don't understand at all why people are drawing lines in the sand this early.  I hope the tribe swap bites them in the ass.  

 

Right?  It's almost as if they were trying to get air time.  Oh, wait.

[azshadowwalker]

Yes, I've been waiting for Shirin to go all Hantz-mode and go 'there is a FLAW in the game' since "stupid people who shouldnt think" get to play it as well as "smart, rational" players like herself. The NERVE!

 

Except she never said anything of the sort. She never said there was a flaw in the game, or that people were stupid. 

[wonald]

Except she never said anything of the sort. She never said there was a flaw in the game, or that people were stupid. 

 

 

I never said that she went Hantz-mode; I said I was WAITING for it.

 

But you obviously have not seen any Shitrin interviews or confessionals if you have never noticed the many, MANY times she complained about stupid people. The "stupid people shouldn't think" is her actual quote.

[LanceM]

Except she never said anything of the sort. She never said there was a flaw in the game, or that people were stupid. 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsReGJ91t08

 

The decision to vote out Shirin or Spencer was "based on stupid people trying to think".

[seacliffsal]

Wow. Just wow. Thanks for the video, LanceM. Yep, she's pretty arrogant. Glad she's out.

[LadyChatts]

Yeah, she sucks at this game.  She can't strategize correctly, and she sucks at challenges.  She's responsible for her own downfall.  So I guess everyone is stupid because they didn't go along with her and let her run things?

 

She was such a waste of a vote.  I'm thinking that those last season who took issue with her and said she wasn't all peaches and cream behind the scenes were onto something.  She really is one of the most least self aware people I've ever seen on one of these shows.

Edited October 7, 2015 by LadyChatts

[Paron Xanthis]

Yeah, she sucks at this game.  She can't strategize correctly, and she sucks at challenges.  She's responsible for her own downfall.  So I guess everyone is stupid because they didn't go along with her and let her run things?

 

She was such a waste of a vote.  I'm thinking that those last season who took issue with her and said she wasn't all peaches and cream behind the scenes were onto something.  She really is one of the most least self aware people I've ever seen on one of these shows.

Seriously.  If a woman from Worlds Apart had to come back, I'm now officially saddened that America passed up Carolyn for her.

[cooksdelight]

The puzzle still baffles me. I also think that there had to have been much more to Andrew's story about his wife. I kept waiting for him to say she was dead, too. When I watched it again, it looked like all of them had gotten very involved in the story and many of them were tearing up. It was when Andrew said something about her coming back and then Kimmy said, "She came back!" that made me think there was something a little more to her leaving and being in California.

When I heard "she came back" I thought "OMG, the poor woman died on the operating table... and they brought her back!" because I was having a hard time following his story.

[EverCat]

Maybe that was why everyone listening was teary-eyed.  Doesn't make sense otherwise.

Andrew and his wife look alike.  He fell in love with himself?

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/381215_145091285598411_777223157_n.jpg?oh=db417d9b468717e5438a8c5e5bb9c42d&oe=56A0BA8C

[Superpole2000]

I enjoyed the first two episodes of this season so much more than recent seasons of the show. I think one of the main reasons is because the cast is more mature. Many have learned that being nice to others can really get you far in this game. When Terry did his nice guy routine this episode I was very pleased. That's what people do because we are human. In past seasons, Abi would have gone off and cried to a camerman, while everyone else united to vote her off and laugh at her in the process. That kick 'em when they're down approach was never much fun to watch.

 

The game is more fun to watch when people demonstrate some of the good side of humanity. Yes, I want them to compete hard and strategize, but I do like when the contestants come across as people with whom I would want to hang around.

 

Also, I loved Woo's reaction to Spencer and Shirin begging for his vote. S&S were 100% guilty of revelling at being in the majority after Episode 1, so much so that they forgot to meet everyone on their tribe. Such bad gameplay...and it got punished. Very satisfying!

[himela]

Abi is a terrible person to have around and everyone hates her. This, along with her being really bad at challenges, makes her the perfect candidate to drag around to the finals (a'la Big Brother).

[phlebas]

Abi is a terrible person to have around and everyone hates her. This, along with her being really bad at challenges, makes her the perfect candidate to drag around to the finals (a'la Big Brother).

The problem is that Abi is a repeater station for every secret plan and alliance move. If she blows up her friends as well as her enemies (and everyone is eventually both), it's not worth the risk.  Cut Abi loose and make friends with Monica. IMHO

Edited October 7, 2015 by phlebas

[Special K]

 

The decision to vote out Shirin or Spencer was "based on stupid people trying to think".

 

Boy, do I feel like a fool having spoken up for her in the past.

[ghoulina]

Boy, do I feel like a fool having spoken up for her in the past.

 

I do as well. I liked Shirin last season. I thought she was smart and quirky. I thought she was a bit of an oddball who was immediately outcast by her tribemates, but I felt like she would be a fun person. But boy, reading these interviews and what-not, she comes across as completely arrogant and condescending. Hey honey, if your game was that good, you'd still be there! I concur with others who have stated she played too hard. She never really stopped. But the moves she came up with didn't benefit her at all. I think she should have tried harder to get the target back on Abi, instead of Varner. She couldn't gauge people at all. She approached Woo all wrong. Just no. I'm actually glad she's gone the more I think about it. 

[fishcakes]

I don't regret defending Shirin because the way she was treated last season was beyond the pale. However, I do wish she weren't saying such assy things now because it just gives people like Dan and Will (well, probably just Dan, I think Will has retreated back under his rock) ammunition to say, "see? See? We told you she brought it on herself!" And I simply don't agree with that. The fact that she's a bit of a jerk herself doesn't justify the kind of abuse she got from Will while others stood around smirking.

[Special K]

...the way she was treated last season was beyond the pale. [....] The fact that she's a bit of a jerk herself doesn't justify the kind of abuse she got from Will while others stood around smirking.

 

I do agree with this.  I don't think you have to like the victim to feel they should not be victimized.

 

I just thought she was cooler than her words now betray her to be. 

[ProfCrash]

I don't regret defending Shirin because the way she was treated last season was beyond the pale. However, I do wish she weren't saying such assy things now because it just gives people like Dan and Will (well, probably just Dan, I think Will has retreated back under his rock) ammunition to say, "see? See? We told you she brought it on herself!" And I simply don't agree with that. The fact that she's a bit of a jerk herself doesn't justify the kind of abuse she got from Will while others stood around smirking.

This.

 

Even in defending her against Will and Dan many folks pointed to her game faults and poor play. One does not cancel out the other.

 

Shirin strikes me as someone who is a big high maintence. She is probably closed to a good number of folks because of the abuse she suffered as a child/teenager. She is smart and has done well in a field dominated by men which means she has some solid skills and thick skin to deal with the prejudices and biases that exist in the programming/engineering world. But it also means that those walls that she has built around her are probably pretty high and thick.

 

She seems to be one of those people that you love or you hate. I don't really think that there is a middle ground with her. She doesn't seem to be too snobbish, she gets along well with Hali, Jenn, Mike and Joe, none of whom are anything like her. She had a good relationship with Spenser, Kelley, Peih Gee and Jeff in the game. She doesn't bear them any ill will for voting for her which shows that she understands that it is a game. I don't think she was actually upset with Woo, she handled his comments pretty well on the show.

 

Then she follows up with some silly comments. I think she is upset that Kelly and Terry were so unwilling to work with anyone outside their alliance. It hurt her game but she knows that does not bode well for them as the game progresses. God knows I have heard plenty of uber smart folks blame their problems on working with people who are stupid or not so smart. (I have brothers who are very books mart, perfect and near perfect SAT scores, everything is judged based on intelligence.) So I am not surprised to hear Shirin make those comments.

 

(shrugs)

 

She is human and imperfect. Anyone who thought so after last season forgot that. She and Max were annoying. She poked at Joaquin when she didn't need to, encouraged by Max. But she also found ways to be friends with some of those folks who complained about her. Jenn and Hali worked past the annoying to find someone they liked. So did Mike and Joe. So she is complicated and has a complex past that adds interesting layers that effect her in ways that most of us will never know.

[wonald]

If Shitrin is such good friends with Joe, then how come she unfollowed him, just as she did with Max? The fact is that of the 17 othe WA people, only about 4 of them - Sieraa, Hali, Jenn, Mike, - actually like her and are friends with her. The rest are meh about her but wont disparge her officially (Joe, Carolyn) or actively dislike her.

[kikaha]

I think:

 

a.  Shirin was not treated that badly last season.  Someone she provoked (no problem there -- it's part of the game too) hit back with some verbal insults.  As Sandra said, things like that happen every season, and are no big deal.  I completely agree;

 

b.  Shirin was perfectly capable of standing up for herself to Will, which by all accounts, including her own, she did;

 

c.  She then used that altercation as leverage to get voted into Second Chance.  That is the only reason she made it back: the rest of her season was one big fail, from her strategy, to her social game, to challenges (including puzzles) to many of her personal relationships. 

 

She found ways to be friends with some of the people she drove crazy -- after her back was to the wall, she had nowhere to turn, and she was hanging on for dear life to stay in the game.

 

This season we are seeing more of the real Shirin: declaring other players "stupid" because they don't go along with her... showing her charm by tweeting about another player and chlamydia... trying to blow 'treemailgate' way out of proportion to falsely muddy Terry, even as his son's life hangs in the balance... and laughing along with the crowd at one of her alliance mates, who was sobbing on the beach.   

 

After the first few days she didn't seem to learn a thing from last season.  Is that the sign of a truly smart person? 

[ProfCrash]

Shirin wasn't exactly charming in her first season. She made similar statements in talking heads last year.

[phlebas]

Actually, never mind.  This post would be better in Shirin's thread, and last season has been discussed enough in there.

Edited October 7, 2015 by phlebas

[ozlsn]

Vytas/Terry/Wigles/Varner had a pre-game alliance.

 

See this is one of the reasons why having returning player seasons annoys me.  I'd much rather see people having to actually work together from scratch and to build alliances the hard way. 

 

At the very least they should make them do talking heads (pre game in a closed room so no one hears perhaps) outlining who they're planning on working with.  Then production can screw them all over more easily.

[Kromm]

Don't forget her lovely comment about Woo in People magazine:  "I assumed that his cluelessness was just an act. I was deeply, deeply wrong."

It's insensitive and not a good thing to say about someone she now knows personally, but it IS probably an accurate statement about the man.

[Guest]

It's insensitive and not a good thing to say about someone she now knows personally, but it IS probably an accurate statement about the man.

Well, that was in response to someone who said Shirin never called anyone stupid.  

 

What was really obnoxious was the hyperbole and superiority.  She's saying he's deeply, deeply stupid.  For what... not flipping on his majority alliance on day 6 to save her?  I can see if it's toward the end and Woo is clearly low man on the majority totem pole but it's so early, what would've been smart about flipping for Shirin? 

 

So far the only person who didn't go out as a bitter and sore loser is Peih-Gee.  

[rose711]

See this is one of the reasons why having returning player seasons annoys me.  I'd much rather see people having to actually work together from scratch and to build alliances the hard way. 

 

At the very least they should make them do talking heads (pre game in a closed room so no one hears perhaps) outlining who they're planning on working with.  Then production can screw them all over more easily.

There are other pre game alliances. I don't have too much info about them. I'm certain they are affecting the game and we may never know about it.

See this is one of the reasons why having returning player seasons annoys me.  I'd much rather see people having to actually work together from scratch and to build alliances the hard way. 

 

At the very least they should make them do talking heads (pre game in a closed room so no one hears perhaps) outlining who they're planning on working with.  Then production can screw them all over more easily.

There are other pre game alliances. I don't have too much info about them. I'm certain they are affecting the game and we may never know about it.