S09.E02: The Separation Oscillation

[ari333]

Yikes

Did anyone else see Jim Parsons kind of shake his head as if that one liner about his right hand was difficult to deliver?

[Spartan Girl]

Well, the one positive thing I can say about this episode is that the way Penny and Leonard worked things out with both of them admitting to unconsciously sabatoging their relationship and then agreeing to move forward was nice.

[Frost]

I liked Mandy!  Good guest casting.  She had just the right responses to Leonard.

 

I know Sheldon was being obnoxious but I like that he's - in his own way - working hard to get Amy back.

[ari333]

Well, the one positive thing I can say about this episode is that the way Penny and Leonard worked things out with both of them admitting to unconsciously sabatoging their relationship and then agreeing to move forward was nice.

I agree it was  nice. Hope that part is over. Sheesh.

 

It wasn't funny for me though.

Edited September 29, 2015 by ari333

[Homily]

It doesn't have to be funny for me if at least I care about what happens!  This time I actually cared.  Hopefully the writers are checking out sites like this place and taking notes!

[Guest]

Well, the one positive thing I can say about this episode is that the way Penny and Leonard worked things out with both of them admitting to unconsciously sabatoging their relationship and then agreeing to move forward was nice.

 

Even if its not funny, there is something reassuring about knowing that the writers did it on purpose. At least if the relationship spec is proved out on screen then what they put to the viewers is purposeful and there is hope that it will get back on track once its out of their system.  Its when they think they presented the funniest episode ever and can't see the issues clear enough to follow through on them that its time to give up.

[SmithW6079]

Sheldon = Douchebag

Edited September 29, 2015 by SmithW6079

[Spartan Girl]

I did think the beginning with Sheldon volunteering to kiss Penny to even things out was hilarious. I'm almost disappointed that it was a dream.

However his behavior with Amy might be, he at least deserves credit for trying to be helpful with Penny and Leonard.

[Driad]

 

I enjoyed this one more than the premiere.

 

Hoping someone can correct the spelling in the thread title.  [/OCD]

 

ETA:  Someone did!  Thank you!

Edited September 29, 2015 by Driad

[CleoCaesar]

I liked this one. Definitely lighter than the premiere. I hope they can keep Mandy around for a few episodes.

[P3pp3rb1rd]

Please, when is the show going to be funny again? The only time it rose to the occasion was Raj and Howard's lunchtime contest of jokes about dating the Other Woman. The Penny/Leonard pain continued to be a real downer, and Sheldon's self-important interference was so predictable. The level of distrust between Penny and Leonard shows their shallow characters and lack of maturity. Neither one of these people has any business getting married.

 

Piling on Amy's pain about Sheldon's immaturity served to deepen and reinforce the unpleasant atmosphere and themes of the show. Dissing Amy on the Internet was a terrible low for Sheldon's boyish behavior. I thought she would call his mother to report him.

 

Seems to me that the show is letting Kaley Cuoco's personal relationship (divorcing) woes pervade the set and suffocate any clever wit that might pop up in the dialogue.

 

Dull, dull, dull.

[K-9]

Must've been heavy-hearted for Kaley to act some of these scenes with her own marriage ending.

[tpel]

Well, at least this one wasn't as depressing as last week's. Sheldon was insufferable, but at least Raj and Howard were mildly amusing. And Leonard and Penny had moments when they weren't miserable so . . . yay?

[jjj]

I've enjoyed the past two shows more than just about all the episodes last season. Good start, hope it continues. The squicky part was the macho lunch crudeness, pure male-dominated office harassment. Howard's married now, time to stop publicly lusting after colleagues' bodies.

[TV Anonymous]

Two notes:

 

1. Did Fun with Flags not have its series finale several episodes back last season?

2. For big organizations, counselling is usually included as part of medical or wellness benefit. It would not be really believable that a major and very reputable institution like Caltech did not offer those benefits to its staff.

[Pop Tart]

 

I've enjoyed the past two shows more than just about all the episodes last season. Good start, hope it continues. The squicky part was the macho lunch crudeness, pure male-dominated office harassment. Howard's married now, time to stop publicly lusting after colleagues' bodies.

 

I agree. I did laugh a couple of times tonight and like that Penny and Leonard's difficulties weren't dragged out (though I'm sure they'll recur), but I found this lunch scene unpleasant and gross. Not funny at all. And is Raj still seeing Emily or isn't he? He certainly wasn't acting like it. He really is my least favorite character. Pretty perpetually immature and always taking pleasure in his friend's miseries.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Pop Tart

[Jack Kerouac]

I've enjoyed the past two shows more than just about all the episodes last season. Good start, hope it continues. The squicky part was the macho lunch crudeness, pure male-dominated office harassment. Howard's married now, time to stop publicly lusting after colleagues' bodies.

 

Agree that it was tasteless, but how is it harassment?

[shapeshifter]

Two notes:

 

1. Did Fun with Flags not have its series finale several episodes back last season?

2. For big organizations, counselling is usually included as part of medical or wellness benefit. It would not be really believable that a major and very reputable institution like Caltech did not offer those benefits to its staff.

1. I thought so too! Maybe Sheldon was just resurrecting it in a bid to get Amy back?

2. As a professor with a roommate and no dependents for over 8 years, Leonard should easily be able to afford a couple of counseling sessions.

[watcherwatcher]

This is the first episode I enjoyed in a long time; however, the most important thing that I need to know about it, is where Penny got her blue shirt. So pretty. I need it. 

[jjj]

Agree that it was tasteless, but how is it harassment?

This is a fun show, and the issue is serious, so I won't get into it on this thread, but in the context of the show, will link the Cal Tech policy:  https://hr.caltech.edu/documents/46-citpolicy_harassment.pdf , which raises issues about the lunchroom scene and many other incidents over the years.  At least the show touched on some of this with the HR administrator. 

 

Again, fun show, I'm in it for the fun, so will not get into the weeds on this.  Heaven knows they have violated so many federal/NASA protocols over the years (lookin' at you again, Howard!) that it would be more fun to discuss those. 

[chocolatine]

Yikes

Did anyone else see Jim Parsons kind of shake his head as if that one liner about his right hand was difficult to deliver?

 

The line that whatever his girlfriend used to do, he could do with his right hand? Yeah, Jim didn't seem very happy having to say that line.

 

 

Agree that it was tasteless, but how is it harassment?

 

 

Howard and Raj talking about wanting Mandy to "free my Willy" or wanting to "cover 3/4 of her surface area" in the university cafeteria definitely qualifies as creating a hostile work environment. It's certainly not acceptable behavior in any real-life workplace these days. 

[kat165]

They did have an episode last season about making the last Fun with Flags ep, but Sheldon decided at the end that the

"show" was too good to end. So he changed his mind.

[Winston Wolfe]

shapeshifter said:

 

As a professor with a roommate and no dependents for over 8 years, Leonard should easily be able to afford a couple of counseling sessions.

Maybe he's cheap on top of all his other issues?

 

Took me awhile to process this episode.  A few more laughs this time around, so that's a step in the right direction.  Glad the Leonard-Penny drama wasn't dragged out.  Almost as if the writers sensed fans would be turned-off it it had gone on too long.  Seems like the new game is to find out how big an arse hole Sheldon will become before someone (hopefully Amy or Penny) takes him down.

 

From the promos next week's show might just approach the old levels of funny.  Here's hoping.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Winston Wolfe

[pennben]

Howard and Raj talking about wanting Mandy to "free my Willy" or wanting to "cover 3/4 of her surface area" in the university cafeteria definitely qualifies as creating a hostile work environment. It's certainly not acceptable behavior in any real-life workplace these days. 

 

Look, I'm 100% against discrimination and truly understand that hostile work environments can exist.  But, three friends talking just amongst themselves, where no one apparently overheard, does not create a hostile work enviornment in and of itself.  If they were heard, sure.  If they acted on it, fire their asses.  But if they were just talking amongst themselves, well that happens everywhere and is not confined to just men gossiping.

[Ms Lark]

As a professor with a roommate and no dependents for over 8 years, Leonard should easily be able to afford a couple of counseling sessions.

Not to mention, he'd drop those kind of bucks in a heartbeat on geek paraphernalia (action figures, costumes, gadgets, games, etc.). But too cheap to spring for counseling to keep the woman he claims to love. I found him to be rather shallow when declaring his "love" he only talked about her outer beauty. Not about her inner nature or anything else! Pfft. Doomed.

[Zahdii]

1. Did Fun with Flags not have its series finale several episodes back last season?

 

Sheldon appeared to hope that making another FwF would be a way to get back with Amy.  When Amy refused to help, because she knew exactly what he was up to, Sheldon did the show anyway and used the time to put down Amy. 

 

It would serve Sheldon right if a great guy saw the 'diss Amy' show and contacts her for a date.

[mojoween]

Raj getting mad at Howard for not telling was amusing, even though I saw it coming, but they dragged it out too far when Raj got mad that Howard didn't say he and Bernadette were in counseling. They forced the joke and made it unfunny.

[TheOtherOne]

They established in the Will Wheaton podcast episode last season that Leonard doesn't have much money. The fact that he was helping Penny pay for her rent, and utilities and food for years likely had something to do with that. He very much did have a dependent much of the past 8 years. (Of course, in the episode where Penny returned the car he bought her they put the money in a joint account, so technically they did have money for a counselor, unless it was spent off screen sometime.)

I really liked Mandy. Great casting and performance there.

Edited September 29, 2015 by TheOtherOne

[buffynut]

I missed last week's episode (actually watched it after this one), so wasn't sure what to expect this week, but enjoyed it.  Very happy they didn't drag out the Leonard/Penny separation.   Having just seen the Kaley separation news, that did keep popping into my mind as I watched though.

 

I know sooner or later Sheldon and Amy will get back together, but I hope it's later rather than sooner.

 

I liked Mandy!  Good guest casting.  She had just the right responses to Leonard.

 

She was perfect.   Was also glad she barely remembered Leonard.  And since there's nothing serious between them, they should keep her as an occasional guest like with the Sara Gilbert character in the early seasons.

[Chit Chat]

The line that whatever his girlfriend used to do, he could do with his right hand? Yeah, Jim didn't seem very happy having to say that line.

 

I didn't see it that way.  IMO, it was just Sheldon showing his irritation because now he doesn't have a girlfriend to help him out.  Sheldon's look of exasperation with the naivety of not knowing what he said was hilarious.  

[mojoween]

Well now we finally know Penny's last name.

Hofstetter. (Snerk.)

[jjj]

Hofstadter.  :)

[ksb]

Good episode with just the right mix of seriousness, fun and sweetness.

 

If only Sheldon and Amy could stay at odds for a long time. It's much more enjoyable to watch than her constantly pining for him and trying to get into his pants. Angry Amy is so much better than lovesick Amy.

 

Penny and Leonard worked very well together in their reconciliation scene. Haven't seen them and the actors that connected for a long time. They really sold me on their coupledom this time, which doesn't happen that often.

 

The guys talk in the cafeteria was way too low but didn't bother me all that much. Mandy can stay, I like her.

[terrymct]

Even if its not funny, there is something reassuring about knowing that the writers did it on purpose. At least if the relationship spec is proved out on screen then what they put to the viewers is purposeful and there is hope that it will get back on track once its out of their system.  Its when they think they presented the funniest episode ever and can't see the issues clear enough to follow through on them that its time to give up.

 

It was time that Leonard and Penny talked about their insecurities regarding each other.  That's been a subtext since the beginning of the show and if they really want to show these two are married, it has to come out otherwise they'll keep beating a dead horse over and over again.

 

I enjoyed Mandy immensely, especially since she didn't remember making out with Leonard at all.  (Again, there wouldn't be liquor on a research vessel but they put that in the script, so use it.)   Raj and Howard as a snarky and hilarious Greek chorus during the exchange was good, as well.    I'm glad they mentioned Bernie knowing about the shipboard snogging, I'd wondered about that.  She's also quite funny when she's stuck in a bad spot like that.

 

I hope Amy keeps pushing Sheldon away for a good bit of this season and we see him growing step by step.   His attempt to make her jealous with Penny's bra was wonderfully inept, especially when he had to give it back.

[mstar1125]

I loved Mandy and wish that she could replace all the female leads on the show, but then the writers would just end up ruining her too. 

[lottiedottie]

I liked Mandy!  Good guest casting.  She had just the right responses to Leonard.

 

I know Sheldon was being obnoxious but I like that he's - in his own way - working hard to get Amy back.

The question is whether he is trying to get her back because he loves her and wants to be with her, or if he is just terrified of the change and wants her back to keep from dealing with change?

[AriAu]

The question is whether he is trying to get her back because he loves her and wants to be with her, or if he is just terrified of the change and wants her back to keep from dealing with change?

 

Isnt that always the question with Sheldon-what are his true motivations.

 

1. Did Fun with Flags not have its series finale several episodes back last season?

 

Didn't he stop the series because he had a girlfriend and did not have time? Now that he has no girlfriend, I guess he has time!

 

Kaley was really not into it this episode. Maybe it was the real life marriage breakup coupled with the subject matter, but she really looked and acted bored. The episode was no fun, except for the slight return of skeevy Howard and obnoxious Raj and their ersatz homosexual marriage , o quote Beverly Hofstader from when the show was, I don't know, actually funny!

[Bazinga]

 

I found him to be rather shallow when declaring his "love" he only talked about her outer beauty. Not about her inner nature or anything else! Pfft. Doomed.

I hate the perpetual 'Leonard is a good guy' this show keeps pushing.  He is not.  As in the above quote, all he had positive to say about Penny is that she is beautiful.  No, she is kind, funny, sweet, caring, nice, etc.  No way would he say she is intelligent, even though she has been shown to be smart in her own way.  Nope, it is just that she is beautiful.  That is all he likes about her; that she is hot and she is willing to be with him (and impress others in turn), which he doesn't really believe.  He mostly tolerates her and, if not for her beauty, he would not be interested.  From the first episode on, his m.o. has been to be "nice" to Penny so that she would have sex with him.  Any sweet gestures emanating from him, are simply to win Penny's favor and are not genuine.  Penny, alternatively, likes him because he is not like the other guys whom she dates who would cheat on her because they don't value her beauty enough to not cheat because they, unlike Leonard, can get other hot girls.  But, Leonard has actually been with plenty of hot girls and every hot girl is immediately attracted to Leonard's wonderfulness and he is usually receptive because they are hot.  Examples: Priya (friend's sister), Dr. Stephanie (friend's date), Dr. Plimpton (friend's guest), comic book artist Alice (while still with Priya), and now Mandy (while seeing Penny).  Almost anytime an attractive girl is near Leonard, he is interested (exception below), no matter the circumstances or whether it is appropriate or even cheating on his current relationship.  How is he seen as such a good, faithful guy?  

 

Did anyone notice the subcontext of Mandy assuming she and Leonard had sex?  Means that if Leonard had pursued it that far, she would have been willing.  See, Leonard really is a great guy for not taking it further like he could have...

 

Hate the character of Leonard and the fiction that he is such a good guy, especially to Penny, who he only likes for her looks. 

 

And, none of Leonard's insecurities about his relationship with Penny are actually his fault, as they are the result of his mother having rejected him growing up. To quote Cher, "Get over it!"

 

 

Not every pretty girl. He did miss one--Alex. Way to go, Leonard!

Of course she was interested in him.  All beautiful woman automatically are interested in Leonard as he is such a good guy.  Leonard enjoyed and reveled in Alex's interest in him.  He also had no trouble rubbing it in to Penny.  Alex is the only one he did not take up on her offer.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Bazinga

[bichonblitz]

Is Leonard still living with Sheldon? I'm not enjoying the dynamic between Penny and Leonard at all. They have become a depressing couple.  

Where is Raj's girlfriend? 

[Homily]

They established in the Will Wheaton podcast episode last season that Leonard doesn't have much money.

 

They established that Leonard only has money when it suits the plot.  There was nothing in the years leading up to that episode that would make anyone think that Leonard was struggling to pay his bills let alone didn't have a tidy amount tucked away for a rainy day.  Personally, I find the way the writers treat the scientists on this show with regard to money really annoying.  They're all earning more than most people watching the show earn (or certainly are in the top tier anyway) and yet Howard and Leonard in particular are now being shown as being poor and earning less than their wives (which according to Lorre and company is just a barrel of laughs) and grrr I have to keep telling myself "it's Hollywood poor, it's just a TV show"!

Edited September 29, 2015 by Homily

[indeed]

Anytime an attractive girl is near Leonard, he is interested, no matter the circumstances or whether it is appropriate or cheating.

Not every pretty girl. He did miss one--Alex. Way to go, Leonard!

(Speaking of Sheldon's assistant, whatever happened to her?)

Didn't Leonard say something about Penny's beautiful nature? I know he started off mentioning how beautiful she was, but I thought he eventually got to other non-physical attributes.

So, there probably wasn't time in the premiere for Emily/Raj focus, but not even a reference in episode 2? By the promo, next week's might not bring up the subject, either. I guess everything is fine for now since it's really only been a couple days.

Yeah, Amy needs to get another boyfriend (who is NOT Stuart). Bring back Zack! ;)

Edited September 29, 2015 by indeed

[MissLucas]

Yeah, Amy needs to get another boyfriend (who is NOT Stuart). Bring back Zack! ;)

You really want Sheldon's head to explode? Kripke's your man!

[LADreamr]

Kripke's an asshole, too. She needs someone who's smart but better adjusted, and kinder to her.

That whole "right hand" scene seemed like much more Jim than Sheldon. I liked it more because of that, I think. But it's strange that Sheldon keeps using sexual references in regards to all this apparent wonderfulness that Amy's missing. I hope it's building up to her saying, "What the hell are you talking about? You wouldn't touch me with a ten-foot pole. I'm not missing anything." She has to call him on that at some point.

[ari333]

Poor Amy. She is miserable with Sheldon and miserable without him?

Did not enjoy the cafeteria thing about Mandy

[MissLucas]

When you think about it - the best Amy's got out of her relationship with Sheldon was that she actually became a member of a group of friends (and acquired a bff). She found the social acceptance she always yearned for. Losing that sounds way more troubling than losing Sheldon.

[cardigirl]

I didn't see it that way.  IMO, it was just Sheldon showing his irritation because now he doesn't have a girlfriend to help him out.  Sheldon's look of exasperation with the naivety of not knowing what he said was hilarious.  

He totally sold it and totally believed it.  It's along the line of when he says he's going to google search something (like how to attract kids with candy) that he has no idea about one of it's meanings.  Most people would think about it the way the audience does, but the comedy comes from the character not realizing what he's saying.

 

I did enjoy this episode.  I felt rather sad that Amy was not shown having any fun, just as a morose person. Next week looks like she'll get to lighten up a little. And a determined Sheldon was pretty interesting to me.  Loved him trying to make her jealous. I hope it's leading to some more character development for him to where he better understands putting someone else's needs ahead of his own, but I hope they don't change him too much.

Kripke's an asshole, too. She needs someone who's smart but better adjusted, and kinder to her.

That whole "right hand" scene seemed like much more Jim than Sheldon. I liked it more because of that, I think. But it's strange that Sheldon keeps using sexual references in regards to all this apparent wonderfulness that Amy's missing. I hope it's building up to her saying, "What the hell are you talking about? You wouldn't touch me with a ten-foot pole. I'm not missing anything." She has to call him on that at some point.

 

I don't think Sheldon is aware that it's a sexual reference, at least the right-hand thing.  

Edited September 30, 2015 by cardigirl

[dungeonwriter]

The sexual jokes about Mandy may or may not have been sexual harassment, but they showed the speakers to be horrible human beings. It's nothing different from what we have seen before, but this just seemed particularly mean spirited. The person was in the same room as them, and they were making filthy comments. 

 

The whole premise of the show is that they are smart and therefore, socially awkward. No, they're just horrible people. Horrible people with high IQs, but genuinely horrible people, none the less. All of them are rather horrible people who are entitled, mean, and sexist. 

 

The writers of the show seem to forget that there are many lovely geeky women out there who would be happy to date smart guys, if they weren't pigs. 

 

 

If I were Amy, I'd get a restraining order. Sheldon's stalkerish behavior is getting frightening. It's sitcom funny, but it's....really not. The bashing her on "Fun with Flags" was horrible and I think crossed a line that ended the relationship. I'd be sad for Amy if she ever took him back after that nastiness. I want Mayim to have a paycheck, but Amy deserves better. 

 

And the Geek Chorus objectifying poor Mandy was horrible. Maybe it's just a conversation among friends, and not a workplace harassment issue, but it pretty much was a sty of pigs oinking. If she is happy sexually free, that's her choice, but the comments were sickening.  

 

I did think Penny and Leonard did solve their issues better, but both should seek therapy. Seriously, both need help. 

[ari333]

Wow. Sheldon never touched Amy beyond a kiss IIRC, but he brings a bra over to suggest he had breast contact with another woman?  I wish Amy had wrapped that bra around his neck and slammed the door.

 

I did not know about Kaley's RL marriage. SAD. NOt even two years. And given that, I find the plot of these last two eppys kind of poignant. Although I get it that they were taped earlier, but still... ouch.  Hope she has a prenup at one mill an eppy that she earns 

[mstar1125]

Personally, I find the way the writers treat the scientists on this show with regard to money really annoying.  They're all earning more than most people watching the show earn (or certainly are in the top tier anyway) and yet Howard and Leonard in particular are now being shown as being poor and earning less than their wives (which according to Lorre and company is just a barrel of laughs) and grrr I have to keep telling myself "it's Hollywood poor, it's just a TV show"!

 

 

Eh, as an actual scientist in academia, I have to disagree and say that we don't make all that much money. The same or similar research job in industry would pay 2 to 3 times as much, so it's not unrealistic for the show to portray the girls as making way more than the boys on the show. I suppose the boys still would be considered "wealthy" to most people in the sense that they are making a decent salary as single/married men with no children, no mortgage, etc., but they are also living in one of the most expensive parts of the country and have expensive hobbies (those comic books, toys, games don't come cheap!). 

 

And, none of Leonard's insecurities about his relationship with Penny are actually his fault, as they are the result of his mother having rejected him growing up.

 

This line of thinking bothers me, not just as it pertains to Leonard, but in general. Yes, Leonard's insecurities are a result of his mother having rejected him, but it is still his fault for not attempting to rise above it, especially where he has the awareness of how his mother's lack of love has affected him. It explains his behavior, but it doesn't excuse it. 

 

The sexual jokes about Mandy may or may not have been sexual harassment, but they showed the speakers to be horrible human beings. It's nothing different from what we have seen before, but this just seemed particularly mean spirited. The person was in the same room as them, and they were making filthy comments.

 

 

I'm not sure where the lines are drawn with sexual harassment in the workplace, but to me it would only seem like harassment if they were saying this to her face. I thought the exchange was funny (I'm a female), because that's how some guys talk about women, especially when they aren't in mixed company. If the women were sitting around having the same exchange about an attractive man ("I'd let him free his willy around me any day", etc.) would we be similarly offended? 

[CherryAmes]

Eh, as an actual scientist in academia, I have to disagree and say that we don't make all that much money. The same or similar research job in industry would pay 2 to 3 times as much, so it's not unrealistic for the show to portray the girls as making way more than the boys on the show.

 

That's not the part that bothers me.  It does make sense that working in industry would bring in more money, what doesn't make sense though is the way they act like the guys are earning a pittance.  Please. I should be so lucky to make what they make!  It's insulting to most of their viewers to act like single people making upwards of $80,000 a year, and probably more, are struggling financially.

Edited September 29, 2015 by CherryAmes