S02.E11: Episode 11

[seasick]

Carly had to make the first move on Kirk.  In the beginning of their first date or whatever,  her TH's had her screaming for him to kiss her and he sat there looking like an 8 year old wondering what girls were for.   So she kissed HIM. .    

 

Making the first move on a guy rarely goes well.  (i even think giving the girl the date card to hand out starts things on a bad foot.)  If nothing else they seem to then relieve themselves of any responsibility going forward for where it goes or any hurt feelings because 'she started it'..  He was obviously flattered and went along.probably as much for that as anything.   He didn't realize that she had him marching down the aisle.    And I don't think this happens to Kirk too often.

 

.I do think he led her on at least in the 'You're my idiot" talk (which I'm sure was misinterpreted --.i don't think by mistake-- by the editors.  I think he said "we call that finding our 'union' or..our  'in-the-end' or   'it-be-it'...idk)  but regardless she said you're my (whatever) and he gave her a passionate kiss..  Bad move.

 

I think Kirk has gender issues.  Yeah I do.  I think if he was nervous about the fantasy type date they had and said she was like a pinball.(apparently she did most of the work)  (I FF so going by what I read here)  well needless to say i don't think it's just  Carly that he's not into or that he's just backward.  .  I think he's still wondering what girls are for. .  .(and speaking of Graham, I think you can put him on that gender issue list too. Sumptin's not right there)     

 

And on that topic  -correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure during Chris's season Carly said her last boyfriend refused to get intimate with her at all.  Red Flag Carly??   I think you may be a gay magnet.  If people have Dan on their Gaydar, and rumor is she's now dating him...ohh Carly..   Slow down.  You are cute and have personality.  Let the guy take the lead.  And if he's not anxious to kiss you or be intimate with you then...  not a good sign.  .     

I do hate the brows tho.   ( Wings you might have explained it ..they may be tattooed.  And I agree.. tone the hair then.)

 

These girls don't date..they take hostages.  Somebody needs to shake them. It's no wonder that most of these guys are wooses and don't know how to deal with them.  Please change the format of this show so the girls don't come armed with the hand cuffs and duct tape!!   It's hard to watch, and it does get old.    

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Edited September 7, 2015 by seasick

[Dirtybubble]

I'm just getting sick of Tanner's high and mighty attitude towards other couples on the show. While I agree Kirk could have handled things better but for tanner to be all judge judgey is just wrong. Dude it's not your relationship or problem. What can't you be the boring sweet couple like Lacey and Marcus from last season?

[hypnotoad]

 

It limited Kirk in a way he might not have chosen....t

 

Dan managed to break up with Ashley S and Amber. Nick basically ended things with Ashley S too. Jared made a half assed attempt at breaking up with Ashley I. If Kirk wanted to date others all he had to do was break up with Carly. It seems pretty simple.

[Mu Shu]

Justin was stone cold in dumping Jaclyn when someone better came along.   Can't say I blame him.

 

Kirk and Jared seem really timid with women, like they're unsure how to handle them. 

Edited September 7, 2015 by Mu Shu

[MsPH]

Well I doubt Kirk's gay, since it sounds like he and Carly were having sex pretty much the entire time they were there. She was on Periscope (a Twitter app you can broadcast live video with) with Jade last night and said she and Kirk already did it before the first overnight, so who knows what that fake hesitation from Kirk was all about. Or maybe it was spliced in from earlier.

[OldWiseOne]

Nick was just smarmy (?)...with that wink and all. Ick

It reminded me of the episode of Seinfeld where George gets grapefruit juice in his eye. Why the hell did Nick keep on winking?

[JudyObscure]

Carly had to make the first move on Kirk.  In the beginning of their first date or whatever,  her TH's had her screaming for him to kiss her and he sat there looking like an 8 year old wondering what girls were for.   So she kissed HIM. .   

 

Making the first move on a guy rarely goes well.  (i even think giving the girl the date card to hand out starts things on a bad foot.) 

 

I think you're onto something.  Ideally, it all begins when they see a whole pack of men sniffing around and drooling like they were doing to Jade in the first episode and to Lacey when she first sashayed down the beach last year, following a few feet behind her bosom.  Then the man gets to think he beat them all to a prize.   He may then be able to tell himself she's a prize forever in spite of inklings of evidence to the contrary.  Some men, like Dan,  have to keep changing targets when a new woman becomes the males' focus.  I don't know how these things work in marriage. Will Jade have to keep pulling out her old Playboy photos at parties in order  to re-stiffen Tanner's resolve? 

[greyhorse]

Jaclyn is officially the ugliest person in franchise history. Not just that face, that ugly personality.

This.  How did this woman ever make the cut to be on her Bachelor season?  And then to make it on Bachelor Pad?  And then once more here in Paradise?  She has a hard hard face.  Surprised she gave up the date card to Nick.

 

What do women see in Justin?  Is it that he is the only one seemingly available?  He's got a Fred Flintstone-like block head, his hair is terrible, he's over muscled, and he tans terribly.  The kiss with Cassandra looked so awkward.

 

Samantha is stunning.  But Cassandra I would say is pretty much right up there with her, but she's got a great personality (at least from what we see).  I hope she finds happiness.

 

Did Juelia really think there was a romantic connection with Mikey?  If so, then she's deluded.  Mikey should have just gone home and saved himself some embarassment and skip asking Mackenzie.

[seasick]

Well I doubt Kirk's gay, since it sounds like he and Carly were having sex pretty much the entire time they were there. She was on Periscope (a Twitter app you can broadcast live video with) with Jade last night and said she and Kirk already did it before the first overnight, so who knows what that fake hesitation from Kirk was all about. Or maybe it was spliced in from earlier.

Certainly just speculation on my part,  But I think his awkward and backward behavior that i Saw on the show, coupled with reports that he seemed not real keen on the overnights had me thinkin'.  Just going with what I can bear to watch on the show ...

I think you're onto something.  Ideally, it all begins when they see a whole pack of men sniffing around and drooling like they were doing to Jade in the first episode and to Lacey when she first sashayed down the beach last year, following a few feet behind her bosom.  Then the man gets to think he beat them all to a prize.   He may then be able to tell himself she's a prize forever in spite of inklings of evidence to the contrary.  Some men, like Dan,  have to keep changing targets when a new woman becomes the males' focus.  I don't know how these things work in marriage. Will Jade have to keep pulling out her old Playboy photos at parties in order  to re-stiffen Tanner's resolve? 

Judy O.. you funny, girl!   stiffen his resolve...lol

[yorklee2]

  Something in Mackenzie's attitude toward Mikey really bothered me.  Here he had just gone out on a limb by trying to give his rose to her, even telling her it was just to see what could/might happen between them, and she tells America that just before he offered the rose, he had been smiling and she just wanted to wipe the smile off his face, because she had no reciprocating feelings for him.  I mean, I can understand not taking the rose and not having the feelings, but to "want to wipe the smile off his face" just seemed a little uncalled for and ungracious. 

  I didn't notice this big smile he supposedly had that seemed to irritate her so much, so I rewound and watched it again.  I never did see this smile, and perhaps it was edited out, but still.  There is no need to belittle him that way.

Yeah I noticed that too. That was a little over the top and unwarranted. I think Mikey was grasping at straws and embarrassed himself but she didn't have to react in the limo like she did. Although she came off a little ditsy I thought she was kind of cute and sweet. Now I wonder. To have that kind of reaction usually means there's emotions involved and unless there's something we didn't see I don't get the hostility. Like geez Mackenzie what did he do to you to deserve that??

[backformore]

One of the requirements for this franchise, it seems, is that all the men must be into themselves for working out, body building, shaving chests (or waxing) and spending lots of time in front of the mirror admiring themselves, fixing their hair and "looking good." Whether that makes a man gay, I don't think so. Lots of hetero men are into themselves. Take that famous line, what the man says to his date as they sit across from each other at dinner: "I love your eyes, I can see myself in them."

 

As for being freaked about an overnight date, I would be freaked, too, given the cameras following me around with lenses pushed into my face for every kiss. What the heck are they going to film and what audio will TPTB be playing back from a closed-door overnight rendezvous? 

 

I don't think that makes a man gay, nor a woman a lesbian, if they forego a chance to "do it" on national teevee, then have it discussed ad nauseum in chat rooms and online posts. I'd pass on that myself, and I have no leanings whatsoever toward same-sex sex.

I agree 100%.  Just because someone doesn't conform to your idea of masculinity, doesn't mean they are gay.   If a man is on a show where the premise is that he wants to meet a woman, I assume that he doesn't really want to meet men to date.  Sexuality exists on a continuum, it's not a dichotomy.

The concept of "gaydar"  is that gay people can tell when someone else is gay.   When straight people use the concept to accuse people of being gay when they say they're straight, it can be offensive. 

[jmonkey]

I think Kirk only intended for BIP to be a fun summer fling for him, and he knew damn well that he didn't want anything serious with Carly or anyone else from the beginning. While Carly was envisioning love, marriage and children, Kirk was just happy to be partnered up to extend his time in the game and to have someone to sleep with every night. Maybe Kirk initially thought that Carly wanted the same thing, but her feelings for Kirk (or how Kirk fit into her fairytale) escalated so quickly that aloof Kirk couldn't comprehend what was going on. He was in too deep before he knew what hit him and didn't realize it until Carly mentioned having his kids that she was way more invested in this relationship than he was.

 

Kirk sure does suck at break-ups. I think he naively went into the break-up thinking that everything would be okay after their conversation, but break-ups are inherently bad by nature. You are basically telling the other person they're not good enough for you. It would've been in his best interest to just say his piece and leave (especially since they had only been "dating" for a few weeks) instead of practically forcing himself on her and trying to smooth things over with his "you need a conversation" schtick. No, douche, Carly needed you to STFU and leave her alone. Kirk actually thought he was the victim because Carly wouldn't hear him out. What a loser! He really is the worst kind of guy-a douche disguised as a nice guy.

 

I know this is sadistic, but I actually enjoyed smug Carly getting blindsided by this break-up. I know she was happy, but she was practically gloating. None of the other couples were that obnoxious about finding someone. Karma does indeed come around, and she was needlessly cruel during Chris's season, so I was fine with this happening to her. Besides I don't think she really loved Kirk anyway. If she did, the line between love and hate was really thin. One moment she wanted to have his babies and the next she is saying, "I hate you." I think she loved the idea of what Kirk could give her than Kirk himself, and it seems like women on this show are more attracted to the idea of marriage and kids and that the guy is just a vehicle to get those things. I think Samantha has the right idea. She's clearly not interested in Nick and just wants to stay in the game for the additional minutes of fame and  in case there's money to be won at the end. I respect that strategy way more than coming on this show for love.

 

It's really sad when toolbags like Mikey T., Kirk, Dan, and Jared are the ones doing the dumping as if they're such great catches. It just seems like the guy's egos are inflated from appearing on TB and having women swoon over them. It doesn't seem that way with the women who seem desperate for any attention from the guys. I was glad that McKenzie rejected Mikey T's rose though. I was surprised he didn't auction it off to the remaining ladies since he clearly wanted more TV time as evidenced by returning for Juelia who I hope joins Ashley I. in therapy.

 

I was disappointed to see Cassandra, NBA baller Rodney Stuckey's baby mama, come on to the show. Another freaking parent, really? There have been too many parents on BIP this season. Here's an idea to Juelia, JJ, Justin, and Cassandra. STAY AT HOME AND BE PARENTS! I really didn't like Cassandra on Juan Pablo's season, and I equally loathe her now. She seems like such an airhead, and I felt she could've at least voiced an objection to Justin, who is another class-A jerk, about breaking off his date with Jaclyn.  After JP's season, Cassandra supposedly rekindled things with Stuckey and they got engaged, but I guess their relationship fell apart. Stuckey must've not been interested in co-parenting either since Cassandra mentioned to Justin that she has 100% custody of Trey. I imagine things didn't end well between them, and I hope Stuckey is paying child support.

 

 

 

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Edited September 7, 2015 by jmonkey

[RedheadZombie]

I think it's kind of shitty the way this show milks these people's hurt to the point of overkill. With both Juelia and Carly they showed the girls gushing about their feelings and hopes for the future at the same time the guys were either using them (Joe) or getting ready to break it off (Kirk). We already knew how much they would be hurt without the extra sound bites. I would say that these women must feel so embarrassed and humiliated to have to watch this played back on national television. 

 

The show's goal is complete humiliation.  This season, Ashley's virginity being discussed by the entire cast, was slightly edged out by Juelia running away sobbing, while yanking on her bathing suit bottoms so they don't fall off.  I have to believe they know this going in. 

[PamelaMaeSnap]

Maybe next year they can do SPIP ... Single Parents in Paradise, with a nice day care center in one of the huts. I'm only half-joking. Think of the possibilities!

[TiredMe]

I still think Dan is good looking but this guy has no idea what he wants. Cassandra this episode? Then that embarrassing ramble before he left. Prob thought he looked cool but came across really douchey.

Did Kirk really describe Carly as a pinball? Ewww. I must have blocked that out of my mind.

Edited September 8, 2015 by TiredMe

[chocolatine]

I must be out of the loop - what does "pinball" mean in the context of sex?

[DEL901]

My WTF moment was when Chris Harrison told the couples that if they gave a rose it meant that they were going to get married and have babies or something. 

 

Why couldn't it just mean they were going to try to see if their relationship would work outside of Paradise?

[Palomar]

 

Maybe next year they can do SPIP ... Single Parents in Paradise, with a nice day care center in one of the huts. I'm only half-joking. Think of the possibilities!

 

Seriously!  The thing is these single parents should stop trying to find parents for their kids instead of a partner for themselves.  No one needs that kind of pressure when you are trying to get to know someone or even dating. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I respect Justin for breaking the date with Jacquelyn.  I thought that was really mature and honest.  What if he went out with Jaq and then somebody else went out with Cassandra and she ended up liking someone else?  It's like how Jared missed out on dating Jade, who he probably actually liked, because he kept being so polite to Ashley I.

 

I feel really bad saying this but I can't even look at Jaq's face.

 

I really like Tenley.  That's a person who actually won me over over the course of the season.  I don't "like" Jade but I liked her totally empathetic reactions to Carly's pain.

 

I still think Mackenzie is the prettiest one there.  Although Cassandra does look a lot like her.   Too bad Mack didn't get to say much of interest; it just might not be inside her head.

 

Is Samantha wearing blue contacts?  Her eyes show such emptiness and/or pure evil.  I'm totally buying that narrative

Edited September 8, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[LadyJaney]

I actually thought Mikey handled himself with Juelia quite well.  It seemed sincere, he didn't want to hurt her but didn't want to lead her on.  he was kind to her and told her once he was sure so that she would not get any further invested.  But Juelia...

 

Of course, she runs of crying, holding her barely there bathing suit against her ass so it didn't pop out of it.  She cries and plays victim, no matter the circumstance.  Mikey was not a bad guy here, not at all.  Yet earlier, he sent him away for another guy but then called him back when she got dumped.  He was much kinder to her than she was to him initially.  And did she really think Mikey was "the one"?  

 

She comes off like she is entitled to anything she wants because of her past.  I think her past is sad and I'm sorry she went through what she did, but it isn't an excuse to get whatever you want or cry for on a reality dating show.  There are so many ways to find someone, She keeps saying she wants to find a daddy for her child.  I don't think BIP is the goldmine to find a father for your child or even a husband.  There are much better options out there.

 

I hope she finds her right man.  I hope she looks beyond the Bachelor industry for him though..

[ramble]

Personally I think the winner this season has been Tenley. I liked her before but I've enjoyed her even more on this go round. The little discussion she had with AshleyI sounded like it was helpful & caring & presented in a way that meant something to AI. She was sympathetic with Carly & the bug down the dress was hysterical. She is such a pretty woman & comes across so sweet. I just wish she would've given the attorney who came on just to meet her a chance.

I felt badly for Carly. Regardless of the red flags or short time span I think BIP has an enhanced Stockholm effect, even more so than TB. I imagine Carly truly thought she & Kirk had something real. As for Kirk, he needed to simply shut up. I realize he desperately wanted to present his speech for the TV audience but one no from Carly should have been sufficient. I thought Carly let him off lightly, if he had only walked away. Jade's teary display & her "I'm here" statement are the most emotion I've seen from her. I *almost* thought she wasn't boring for a few moments.

I loved seeing Nick's win on BP shown for that brief shot. It made me cheer all over again & then there was Sam. I still don't get the appeal of Sam. She's pretty but not drop dead gorgeous in my eyes. Her personality is so unappealing that it dims any beauty she has. Her expression seems to shift from smug smile to bored pretense to sly planning. I think all the guys who were lusting after her should've been allowed to go compete for her on their own island without any of us having to watch.

Yes Mikey is a bit dim, but I thought he handled Jueileia pretty well. His attempt to rose up Mac was pitiful but I didn't feel it was worthy of her scorn. For some reason I still like him.

Justin. What the what is up with him? He went on 15 dates in 1.5 days. He looks like a lunkhead & isn't all that fun to gaze upon. His conversation skills don't seem to be sizzling either. Maybe he's one of those people you only get in person because I'm sure not seeing it.

[piewarmer]

Did I imagine it or did Jared boop Ashley I's nose while he was breaking up with her?

 

That's not the right setting for nose booping.

[DeLurker]

I know this is sadistic, but I actually enjoyed smug Carly getting blindsided by this break-up. I know she was happy, but she was practically gloating. None of the other couples were that obnoxious about finding someone. Karma does indeed come around, and she was needlessly cruel during Chris's season, so I was fine with this happening to her. Besides I don't think she really loved Kirk anyway. If she did, the line between love and hate was really thin. One moment she wanted to have his babies and the next she is saying, "I hate you." 

Me too.  Kirk should have been the bad guy, but Carly is so annoying that I found it rather fitting that she got dumped and I kinda dismiss his asshattery.

 

The show's goal is complete humiliation.  This season, Ashley's virginity being discussed by the entire cast, was slightly edged out by Juelia running away sobbing, while yanking on her bathing suit bottoms so they don't fall off.  I have to believe they know this going in. 

They kept blurring Jacquelyn bikini bottom so I was thinking it most be super revealing.  It was shown later and it wasn't anything I would raise an eyebrow to.

 

Did I imagine it or did Jared boop Ashley I's nose while he was breaking up with her?

 

That's not the right setting for nose booping.

He really should have gone for a "Got your nose!".

 

Ashley I's post breakup TH was like watching and listening to the DeLurker and Friends The High School Years:  All Drama All the Time.

[mostlylurking]

I enjoyed seeing the genuine friendship between Carly, Tenley, and Jade.  Their concern for her seemed very real and I like to see that type of bond between women.  Carly handled herself as well as she could in the situation.  She seemed totally shocked though and it made me feel a tiny bit bad for making so much fun of her eyebrows.

 

Kirk did make me laugh in his van though - "That went TERRIBLY."  Heh.

[neural-plasticity]

I think it's interesting reading everyone's different perspectives on the Kirk/Carly and overall dating process of BiP. Honestly, the BiP situation kind of reminds me of college - besides being in classes (for what, an hour or two a day?) you really have the freedom to spend every waking moment together - and many do (including some of my own friends in college)! You can definitely rush into relationships/feelings when you're together so often, but you rarely see people getting married so quickly (in fact, most of these couples end up breaking up). 

 

In my own personal opinion, it's hard to imagine being that in love with someone after just three weeks that you're talking about marriage and babies? I understand asking those general questions to get a basic idea if you're on the same page, but talking about literally having that person's baby? I can totally understand why Kirk was overwhelmed. Some people like taking relationships slow, and that seems like the kind of person Kirk is. I bet he went into the show hoping to find someone he could see a connection with and really explore after the season ended. Carly was much more extreme - she definitely was expecting a ring.

 

Also, I might not have been paying close enough attention when Kirk was talking to Carly, but I didn't really feel like he was breaking up with her. It seemed like he was willing to continue the relationship with her on the condition that they toned it down a bit. Maybe it was his way of trying to tell her he really didn't want to propose so she shouldn't expect it. I think it's totally normal to have doubts when you're in a relationship with someone who might be "the one," and I think it's okay to explore those doubts with the person you're with.  

 

Last thing - I'm SO GLAD someone brought up Samantha and Nick's date. Like, O.M.G. she literally couldn't hide her disgust when kissing him. That was so fake/awkward/gross. 

[JenE4]

Ok, I expect fake-out editing and franken-byte quotes, but there was nothing remotely like the scene they've been playing all season long in previews:"Gasp! You're no longer a virgin AND you might be pregnant?!" WTF?! Normally they have a scene somewhat like what they've previewed and even if it's the opposite outcome, we can laugh and say, oh, you silly editing monkeys got me again! But I can't even fathom how in the world they manufactured that franken-byte. Granted, everyone was talking about whether Ashley would lose her virginity, but no one questioned the possibility of being pregnant! A Neil Lane diamond ring to whoever can solve that editing mystery!

[ribboninthesky1]

I'm glad to read everyone's take on the Carly/Kirk break-up because I was just befuddled by it last night. I was sorry to see Carly in pain but I could so easily see how she set herself up for the whole thing. I've done a whole lot of dating in my life and never been blindsided like that because I would never be so freakin' blind, Carly. Kirk wasn't that interested in the fantasy suite date, you said you would rave about the wonderfulness of him and the relationship and he would say nothing in return. I know times have changed but I would wait for a man to say he loved me before telling everyone how locked together we were and I would wait for a proposal before talking about moving closer and saying things like "I picture us having kids together." Hold on, sugar!

 

Hee! I have to wonder if Carly watched the season, and saw, clear as day, Kirk's reticence.  Take out the talking heads and ITMs, there were moments when Kirk's facial expressions and body language said it all.  That ain't editing, in my mind.  I've known pretty early when a guy's interest (and level thereof) is reciprocated or not.  Doesn't make it less hurtful, but this emotional devastation is so cringeworthy.  I often feel like an abnormal woman, because I've never been blindsided as an ADULT like Carly seemingly was. Carly's 30, right?  I experienced what she seemingly went through as a teenager, but certainly not as a 30 year-old woman. Though, I've always felt like the histrionics from these folks are as much for the camera as possible sincerity.       

 

Kirk's problem was that he assumed he could talk out (through?) his feelings and doubts, and that she would be receptive.  Before it deteriorated, as others mentioned, I didn't hear Kirk say he wanted to end things, though I couldn't figure out what he did want.  Ah well, to paraphrase a Cocktail quote, sometimes the only way for things to end is badly.          

[itainttippithebird]

 

Ok, I expect fake-out editing and franken-byte quotes, but there was nothing remotely like the scene they've been playing all season long in previews:"Gasp! You're no longer a virgin AND you might be pregnant?!" WTF?!

 

Yessss, thissss! Came to these forums to ask the very same question. It wasn't from last night's episode, either. Bachelor teasers are always misleading, but this was their BIG tease quote for the whole season and then it was never uttered? The hell?

[Bugs Meany]

Ok, I expect fake-out editing and franken-byte quotes, but there was nothing remotely like the scene they've been playing all season long in previews:"Gasp! You're no longer a virgin AND you might be pregnant?!" WTF?! Normally they have a scene somewhat like what they've previewed and even if it's the opposite outcome, we can laugh and say, oh, you silly editing monkeys got me again! But I can't even fathom how in the world they manufactured that franken-byte.

I'm pretty sure it was her sister saying that. There's no context I can imagine for that line, so who knows. They probably had Lauren read that from a script.

[chocolatine]

Yeah, I should have known better after Chris Soules's season had teasers of a pregnancy test that never materialized on the show, but a small part of me still hoped I'd get to watch Ashley I deal with losing her virginity and a pregnancy scare on TV. That at least would have somewhat warranted all they crying she did.

 

Maybe Lauren was speaking hypothetically, like "imagine you have sex with Jared without a condom. Then you're not a virgin anymore and you might be pregnant".

[atlanticslide]

"Juelia has a daughter at home." Yes, yes, we know.

[jb0495]

I've been in a Carly/Kirk relationship. There was talk of "I see you at the end of the aisle, do you want children etc" I was absolutely torn apart when it ended but mine ended better because he really did care for me instead of Kirk's blaise attitude, I feel he showed Carly.

 

I didn't find Carly's talking heads too extreme, although a bit manic, school girl so crazy in love. She thought they were solid & Kirk didn't at all express any small tiny doubts during their time together unless he did and we didn't see any of the conversations.

 

I think Kirk is a shitty conversationalist & I do think he led her on a bit.. IF, he only really wanted to express doubts that it was moving too fast. He needed to spell it out more, instead of saying "you're ahead and I'm behind", you say "I don't I want to break up BUT yada yada yada". I think Carly freaked out a bit too quickly BUT he also didn't say "I DO still want to see where this goes after Paradise, I DON'T want to break up, but I can't give you a ring in 2 days". If you're having doubts, you don't let them stew for a week and you definitely don't talk to people beforehand and just simple say "ugh this will be hard". I think IF he really did have strong feelings for her, he would have been much more upset when she freaked out & may have even said/thought "oh no, don't leave, I do really care for you, i just want you to understand where I'm coming from etc. I don't literally want to lose you-what have I done etc". He seemed so calm and although he seemed surprised of Carly's reaction, he didn't say the right things to get her to sit down, look at him, want to hear him out. He just kept badgering her about "deserving a conversation" but he didn't really seem upset, sad, torn apart over the break up IF they were that serious like we were led to believe. in that way, he definitely led her on. 

 

I mean it's a damn TV show if you're having doubts just give her the final rose that you of course want to explore the relationship in the real world (like Cody/Michelle Money) and let Tanner/Jade have the proposal. Don't have a grand declaration on TV, keep your mouth shut and end it quietly. But I'd guess that ABC badgers the contestants about tv moments and that he felt he HAD to break it off. I've always thought that about dating shows but they don't ever end quietly, with "playing along". 

Edited September 9, 2015 by jb0495

[jojomano]

I've been in a Carly/Kirk relationship. There was talk of "I see you at the end of the aisle, do you want children etc" I was absolutely torn apart when it ended but mine ended better because he really did care for me instead of Kirk's blaise attitude, I feel he showed Carly.

I didn't find Carly's talking heads too extreme, although a bit manic, school girl so crazy in love. She thought they were solid & Kirk didn't at all express any small tiny doubts during their time together unless he did and we didn't see any of the conversations.

I think Kirk is a shitty conversationalist & I do think he led her on a bit.. IF, he only really wanted to express doubts that it was moving too fast. He needed to spell it out more, instead of saying "you're ahead and I'm behind", you say "I don't I want to break up BUT yada yada yada". I think Carly freaked out a bit too quickly BUT he also didn't say "I DO still want to see where this goes after Paradise, I DON'T want to break up, but I can't give you a ring in 2 days". If you're having doubts, you don't let them stew for a week and you definitely don't talk to people beforehand and just simple say "ugh this will be hard". I think IF he really did have strong feelings for her, he would have been much more upset when she freaked out & may have even said/thought "oh no, don't leave, I do really care for you, i just want you to understand where I'm coming from etc. I don't literally want to lose you-what have I done etc". He seemed so calm and although he seemed surprised of Carly's reaction, he didn't say the right things to get her to sit down, look at him, want to hear him out. He just kept badgering her about "deserving a conversation" but he didn't really seem upset, sad, torn apart over the break up IF they were that serious like we were led to believe. in that way, he definitely led her on.

I mean it's a damn TV show if you're having doubts just give her the final rose that you of course want to explore the relationship in the real world (like Cody/Michelle Money) and let Tanner/Jade have the proposal. Don't have a grand declaration on TV, keep your mouth shut and end it quietly. But I'd guess that ABC badgers the contestants about tv moments and that he felt he HAD to break it off. I've always thought that about dating shows but they don't ever end quietly, with "playing along".

Agree.

In my mind they might still be together if he would've handled the talk better.

[kira28]

I felt terrible for Carly and I don't even care for her. Kirk blindsided her. he could have spoke to her privately ahead of time, he could have pulled away slowly. Instead he just ripped her heart out. In my opinion Kirk is worse than Joe  and what he did to Juelia. I mean even Kirk vilified Joe for how he treated Juelia and all Joe did was go on one date with Juelia and decide he wasn't interested. Kirk spent every single day with Carly for the whole 5 weeks and let her be giddy happy and then dropped a bomb on her. She had no idea he was feeling that way. I agree she shouldn't have been talking about marriage and kids so early and I'm sure that freaked Kirk out but no excuse for treating her so horribly. Carly is right, Kirk is the absolute worse kind of guy. I was a "Carly" before. Dated this "great" guy and it was so intense. Relationship only lasted two months but it was fast and intense and he wanted to spend every single day with me, we spent every night together at either his place or mine, we even took a vacation together. In my case, HE was the one talking about marriage and kids and asked me to help him design the house he was building and just include me in every aspect of his life. It felt like we were together much longer than we actually were because it was just so intense and we were so close. Then one day out of the blue he picked a fight with me over something I didn't do (he accused me of talking to exes)  and we fought. I thought we made up because that night we made dinner together, took a shower together, had sex, he held me as I feel asleep, kissed me goodbye when he went to work that morning. Later that day he told me it just wasn't working out, he didn't trust me, I had hurt him and his feelings had changed. My head was spinning and two days later I got a text message from him that he and his ex were now dating and please respect that and don't contact him again. Blindsided. So yeah I hate Kirk too lol.

 

I really wanted Carly or Jade to just punch Kirk in the face when he kept following Carly around and telling her they needed to talk when she clearly wanted nothing more than to be left the hell alone. My heart broke for her when she kept saying I don't need to hear it again.

Edited September 10, 2015 by kira28

[Sweet Dee]

I felt so bad for Carly. I, however, don't think she's the innocent angel and Kirk is the mean bad guy who played her. I do think they should have talked openly about their feelings as they came up, not him waiting a week- however, we only saw what they showed us on TV. Carly got a good edit. I was a huge Carly fan from day 1. But I liked Kirk too. I'm just sad for both of them, the end of a relationship is never easy.

 

Jade and Tanner are cute. Most of all, I loved how sweet her and Tenley were to Carly. They were so genuine, such good friends. I agree so much, the women were so much better than the men this season! Half of the men just stood there being dull and the other half acted just...off. I would have loved to see more of Tanner and his sense of humor though.

[KnoxForPres]

I felt terrible for Carly and I don't even care for her. Kirk blindsided her. he could have spoke to her privately ahead of time, he could have pulled away slowly. Instead he just ripped her heart out. In my opinion Kirk is worse than Joe and what he did to Juelia. I mean even Kirk vilified Joe for how he treated Juelia and all Joe did was go on one date with Juelia and decide he wasn't interested. Kirk spent every single day with Carly for the whole 5 weeks and let her be giddy happy and then dropped a bomb on her. She had no idea he was feeling that way. I agree she shouldn't have been talking about marriage and kids so early and I'm sure that freaked Kirk out but no excuse for treating her so horribly. Carly is right, Kirk is the absolute worse kind of guy. I was a "Carly" before. Dated this "great" guy and it was so intense. Relationship only lasted two months but it was fast and intense and he wanted to spend every single day with me, we spent every night together at either his place or mine, we even took a vacation together. In my case, HE was the one talking about marriage and kids and asked me to help him design the house he was building and just include me in every aspect of his life. It felt like we were together much longer than we actually were because it was just so intense and we were so close. Then one day out of the blue he picked a fight with me over something I didn't do (he accused me of talking to exes) and we fought. I thought we made up because that night we made dinner together, took a shower together, had sex, he held me as I feel asleep, kissed me goodbye when he went to work that morning. Later that day he told me it just wasn't working out, he didn't trust me, I had hurt him and his feelings had changed. My head was spinning and two days later I got a text message from him that he and his ex were now dating and please respect that and don't contact him again. Blindsided. So yeah I hate Kirk too lol.

I really wanted Carly or Jade to just punch Kirk in the face when he kept following Carly around and telling her they needed to talk when she clearly wanted nothing more than to be left the hell alone. My heart broke for her when she kept saying I don't need to hear it again.

Publish your exes number so I can text him over and over til he blocks me "Please respect me when I say you're a fucking excuse for a man."

I think one of the reasons Carly was so heartbroken is because he didn't look like David Beckham. In a bar, I wouldn't give a glance to Kirk, nor would most girls. Now this doesn't mean anything bad at all. It just means he in no way in hell could be capable of a player so yeah, when a "Kirk" in life sells this fantasy, I can see her buying it.

He's kind of an average schmuck tied with her from the start. It's viable! Had he been, even Tanner, she'd probably been a bit more weary (shit, wary).

No, she shouldn't have mentioned kids, but who knows she could have been three sheets to the wind when she did it. Not that it mitigates, but it can happen.

At least through editing every time they were in the background (or Tanner and Jade) they should have had giant billboard sized signs saying "Taken and blissful. Don't you wish you were us".

He's the kind of guy I want to ask "Exactly who do you think you're going to land?" He didn't have to love Carly, but I'm not sure he can a lot better. There are tiers to this bachelor world. Just because you're an alum doesn't mean you're cool. There's D list.

Like if I told my friends I slept with Ames last night, high fives all around. Justin? They'd shuffle awkwardly and ask if there was any more wine. Kirks the latter. Lame as hell.

****I realize Ames my not be everyone's fancy. But the smarts, the wit, the cuteness! Ooh la la. Nothing D list. Also would get high fives ideally tagging hot ass Arie!****

Edited September 12, 2015 by KnoxForPres

[Mabinogia]

They can both do better in that they can find someone who loves them and isn't just settling. Everyone can do better than just settling.

[KnoxForPres]

That chills me as an idea. He should "settle" for Carly because he can't do better? She should settle for him because she can't do better? I think they are better alone than accepting anyone's idea that they are the lower part of a caste system (this isn't India, and neither one of them was born into that system). Yes, I know there are people who think they are just too good to be seen with someone who isn't beautiful enough (mostly women) or wealthy enough (mostly men) and I think those people deserve to be left out in a desert with only their perfect selves to keep them company. I think Kirk did the right thing...he wasn't in the same place emotionally as Carly, and Carly was imposing a fantasy on him that had little to do with his reality. Possibly somewhere in this world there is someone who sees Kirk and Carly as members of their personal A list...and I honestly hope they find them.

Oh shit, no chills intended. I view this show as a drama, like 90120. So I would have said the same thing about Steve never doing better than Kelly. I have no investment or think this is real so sincere apologies for coming off that way.

In real life my feelings/thoughts/emotions are probably 180 from when I watch this. But that's why I watch (and post accordingly)-total bullshit viewing emterainent value. Like Taco Bell for all three meals.

[KnoxForPres]

I apologize for reacting the way I did. The statement struck a little too close to home for me and I should not have ever interpreted the way I did. Of course this is a bit of fun and not meant to be nearly as serious as I made it. Blame it on the fact that I am dealing with my second week of hideous heat and humidity and my brain isn't faring well. Guilty pleasure is this (to be watched with the odd Chalupa Supreme from Taco Bell). Take care. And, again, my sincere apologies.

Gong through a breakup now (at 36!) so probably need that meximelt and Dorito taco more than ever ;)

You're good, my friend. And in hindsight, I should be more sensitive as indeed, we are all going through our own things.

Edited September 14, 2015 by KnoxForPres

[JenE4]

Concept of settling aside, I actually think Kirk is a better catch than Carly. I think he's cute, and Carly is all kinds of a mess with her ratty extensions. Yet, Knox, I'd be right there high-fiving you over Ames and Arie! They--and Marquel--are my all-time favorites.