S14.E03: Shut Up And Sew

[Ms Lark]

Are people here still confused if it's St. Petersburg, Florida or Russia? Seriously? Since when is a small town in Florida at the same level as the rest of the international destinations like Venice and Hong Kong?

 

Can we put that to rest now?

 

Oh, I don't think we're confused, we just think the designers must've been!

[atir]

We could probably put it to rest if someone at PR would deign to explain why orchid colored fabrics have something to do with Russia.

[Grandma Saracen]

Hi, I would like to place an order for a Final 4 of Ashley, Candice, Laurie and Swapnil for delivery. (Although I also find Lindsey absolutely delightful. She is just so over it all the time and is how I imagine myself being on Reality TV.)

 

I would like to second that! 

[NewDigs]

I loved all of the big wide pants this go-round and I loved Venice especially. But they all reminded me of Hollywood glamour comes to town. They seemed over the top but I think that's necessary for the runway.

Ashley and Candice working together was magic. Unfortunately other teams had less chemistry. And some real dickheadedness was revealed, Joseph and Jake... I hate being called those "hon'" terms but would have said something before the runway. I would have to Make It Stop! Poor Merline. I felt bad for her.

Greece was okay. Loved the use of color but agree with upthread poster who ponted out odd placement of the blue.

Still not crazy about India and not really sure why it made top 3. But love Swapnil. Such a wonderfully considered thought process.

I knew it was supposed to be St Petersburg as in Russia but was confused by the end product. Maybe orchid/purple was to suggest royalty?

I wish they could find a better cosmetics sponsor than Mary Kay. I don't think she can provide the colors and drama necessary for the task.

[7-Zark-7]

I couldn't believe Blake and Kelly's Greece look was only "safe". To me it was the clear winner and no one else came close. I didn't get into the kitchen curtain print on the winning Venice design, and though I adore a palazzo pant, that material and color was a turn off.

[slothgirl]

That is assuming either one of them could design something fashions forward and chic.  The design was pretty basic and I am not sure they would have changed that even with different fabric.

Well there is that... I doubt either one could design something fashion forward and chic even if there was a huge prize dependent on it... oh wait...

Edited August 23, 2015 by slothgirl

[morakot]

I believe that Hanmiao originally stated that she preferred to create something structured. Edmond said that this would not be suitable for the beach. Hanmiao noted that their styles: hers, boxy and structured and his, bodycon with flowing sections, would not work together. I seem to remember them both sketching and trying to combine the two ideas together.

[NewDigs]

Palazzo pants! Thank you. Now, why didn't the judges call them that?

I'm really enjoying Zac this season.

Tracee Ellis Ross was faboo. I wish she was a regular.

So fun to watch and listen to Laurie's admiration and I'll bet she got a huge kick out of Tracee wanting to own the sari/scarf. Laurie was very deferential, on the runway, to Swapnil. To the point that I worried she wasn't giving herself enough credit.

[JasmineFlower]

I hate Lindsey, that's my take away from tonight. I think she was playing the "gender card" as a way to complain about a person she decided from jump was not a good enough partner for her. She bitched about the names he was calling her. Okay. I get that. But, why didn't you say something to him about it? Seemed to me she was using it as a way to further complain about her non-contender partner. Because she was not shy, at all, speaking her mind and yet she didn't once say, "Jake, let's talk a second. If there's a problem, we can talk about it, but my name is Lindsey, not honey, sweetie, darling, or anything else. Lindsey. Don't call me those other names anymore, this is a professional setting." Wouldn't have taken much. Those words didn't pass her lips. I think they bothered her somewhat, but not as much as she was saying. I think it was part of the defense she was building up to take him down on the runway if need be.

 

I have major doubts that the other designers who were feeling sorry for her have any idea how dismissive she was towards Jake in general, even though it was him who knows Hong Kong, and who lived there. Way before we heard any sweetie and darlings, we saw that this was going to be how she was treating him.

 

And her wanting to style a Kimono and Jake saying, yes, but we're doing Hong Kong, not Japan. I think it set her off even though he's completely correct. She seems to think it's a style of jacket and it is. A Japanese style of jacket. Her grouping Asian cultures together that way certainly started the downfall for me with her in this episode.

 

And Joe. I'd like him or Lindsey gone next. Cannot believe the way he threw Merline under the bus. I like almost everything Merline said this episode, explaining more about trying to be herself and also wanting to be liked and not disappointing a partner. It was a nice insight into who she is. And it was a shame how stifled it was in this episode, even if it's not my cup of tea. Joe was terrible. I have no idea why Joe was under the impression he was the judges' darling, since it's Merline who has been in the top 3 so far, not him. But, it's a crying shame they fell for his spiel on the runway, because if that look was a failure, there is no explanation for him not to being out there in the bottom 2.

 

Seriously thrilled that Tracee Ellis Ross was the guest judge and she was fantastic. So much more detailed criticism of the outfits that usual.

Edited August 23, 2015 by JasmineFlower

[Granimal]

This is my first season of PR, and I know nothing about fashion, so don't slaughter me!

 

When Tim started drawing names out of the bag I turned to my viewing partner and said, "They'll pair Hanmaio with Edmund because he has immunity and they're looking to send Hanmaio home." Maybe I just "don't get it", but I hated her looks in the first two episodes and thought she should have gone home both those times. Therefore, I don't mind that she went home now. I think we've seen all there is to see from her. Big baggy shapless oversized clothes. Maybe someone out there is into that look, but I thought it was all a cop-out for poor sewing skills. I don't know, she just didn't seem to have the skill-set needed on this show. She would have been eliminated soon anyways, so I don't have any outrage for her departure. (For what its worth, I know people that would wear either one of Edmund's first two creations. I don't know anyone that would wear any of the outfits that Hanmaio made on the show.)

 

Regarding the teamwork between  Hanmaio and Edmund- I get being a thinker and thinking before you speak, but in your chosen career field you usually don't get that luxury. Though it was probably editing, it seemed like she never ended up answering his questions. It was a timed challenge in a competition in their chosen field of employment, so I get why Edmund was annoyed. I felt like Hanmaio gave up before they even began. She seemed defeated and unwilling to try the entire time. I don't dislike her or anything, but the way it was edited made her seem like she was not willing to collaborate and not clear about what she wanted. Then of course she told Edmund to shut up a few times. I guess its good that she's a small feminine woman, because had a man said that to his female partner there would probably be a lot of outrage.

 

RE: Lindsey (the only person's name I can remember because of Kimono-gate) - I don't have a lot of outrage for her mistake. I believe that it was a mistake born of ignorance and not meant to be dismissive or racist. If she had replied, "Oh it's all the same," then I could see the outrage. I think she was frustrated and embarrassed and tried to cover it up by saying, "Oh it's just a style of jacket." I actually like Lindsay because I think she's cute (sorry 'bout it) and I like how she brought up the "honey"/ "sweetie" problem- even if it was only in her talking heads. Meh, I blame her partner for being condescending to her. I don't blame her for not confronting him about it. For all we know she said something and it wasn't shown*, and that's when her partner went into his little "poor-me" routine. Also, I didn't get the impression that she was horrified by older women or anything. She essentially said that "Matronly" was the kiss of death on this show. I don't know any woman of any age who strives to look matronly. I believe that other contestant's echoed this sentiment as well. Also, their models are in their twenties so they may look odd in a "Mother of the Bride" style dress. For what its worth, this is the definition of "matronly" I'm going off of- adjective: matronly:

    like or characteristic of a matron, especially in being dignified and staid and typically associated with having a large or plump build.

(I know that "matronly" on the show was used as shorthand for "older", but that's the definition that popped up when I googled "matronly.")

Now I personally don't think there's anything wrong with being "matronly", but Tim Gunn definitely implied that it was a problem or a negative, so

I'm sure that contestants have noticed this. If this were a more diverse competition, where they were making clothes for various shapes, sizes, and ages of women- it wouldn't be a problem. I blame the narrow scope of the show (and the fashion industry in general) but that's a fight for another day.

 

The other two- Merline and Joe were so hard to watch. I cringed during their whole segment. It reminded me of The Taming of the Shrew. Ech. The initial request was fine, but it should have ended there. I didn't like the continued conversation about taming Merline. Regarding Merline, anytime anyone does anything outside the "norm" whether on a sit-com or reality show, the idea is always floated that they may be on the autism spectrum. I don't know anything about Merline's health history, but I doubt that she's on the autism spectrum. I have two close family members who are on the spectrum and they are super honed into any task that they work on. They are also very introverted. I'm not sure if those are universal symptoms, just throwing that out there. I must not be paying much attention, because I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe she's on the spectrum or on drugs. Maybe she's just an eccentric artist type. ***NOTE: My terminology for "on the spectrum" is probably outdated by now, and sounds clunky to the ear, hopefully my intent comes through regardless.

 

I thought that all of the outfits were pretty bad. If I had to pick a winner it would probably have been the outfits for Greece or India.

 

Is it just me or are there a lot of good looking people on this show?

 

* I know there's always the argument that had Lindsey said something to her partner about calling her "sweetie"/ "hun" it would've definitely been shown. Still, I maintain that there's always a possibility that it wasn't shown for whatever reason. Her partner certainly didn't seem surprised when she went off during judging.

 

-Edited for names

Edited August 23, 2015 by Granimal

[kitmerlot1213]

I'm not saying that Jake wasn't a condescending ass, but she also needs to communicate. If you don't like it when people call you sweetheart, tell them. If you incorrectly suggest a coconut bra for Geneva, Switzerland, acknowledge it. You can take the terms of endearment two ways - he was either trying to be patronizing, or he was trying to be friendly. She never found out because she was so busy being offended by it.

 

I work in an office where one of the female managers calls people "hun"--man, woman, it doesn't matter, it's just a term she uses and it's not meant to marginalize or condescend and everyone is secure enough to realize this.  I think Lindsey was anxious to be offended because Jake wasn't gushing all over her design and he had the temerity to question her about it.

 

I wish I could say that I was shocked that both Lindsey and Merline punked down to the men but I'm not.  It's always the people who talk "big" who mention how strong they are that are actually the weakest.  Why Merline took Joseph's crap is on Merline--she could have easily told him to stuff it and continued singing but she didn't and the same thing with Lindsey.  If she truly thought he was demeaning her, why didn't she put a stop to it?  Surely they have both learned to stand up to bullies but I actually think that the completely uncompromising Lindsey was the real bully.  Once Jake questioned her idea about the jacket, she shut down and refused to work with him

 

I can't stand people like that.

Edited August 23, 2015 by kitmerlot1213

[Pallida]

This episode all around irritated me.  I'm convinced the producers intentionally avoided showing Merline's behavior in the second episode to lead us to believe she's not always active.  I'm not certain, but it seemed like in the recap of the season so far at the start of this episode, they showed her repeating the behavior from the first episode into the second.  Also, in the first episode, there was concern over her time management, so between her being seemingly constantly distracted (and distracting) and not having focused time management, I do understand why Joseph would want to figure out how to reign her in.  I don't support stifling her creativity - and perhaps the two things are mutually exclusive.

 

The idea of a kimono-style jacket in Hong Kong, whether from mixing up cultures or from not really thinking about how it would LOOK like mixing up cultures, was thoughtless.  And what ended up being produced seemed really fugly to me, and not simply because it looked like Christmas barfed on the model.  Also at the start of the episode, the producers slipped in Jake calling someone darling (I think it was like "excuse me darling" while passing), so I'm not even convinced he was doing it to be dismissive of her.  I do accept that some people truly hate these kinds of names and find them diminutive, but it's also important to tell the person you take it this way.  

 

The judges kept commenting on the fabric given to the contestants.  While I realize they had some control over whether or not they used it, I was tired of the judges reacting as if they went to Mood and picked it out.  The one time it made sense was the commentary on the poor decision to make a swimsuit out of the non-stretch fabric.  That was a comment on knowledge and handling of a fabric.

 

I still want Kelly to be my friend.  I didn't recognize her at first when they went on the cruise!  I found her and Blake's outfit to be the prettiest and they were wise to hone in on the white fabrics early.  

[PepperMonkey]

Finally had a chance to watch the "shilling of the cruise ship cum first team challenge" episode. Not sure where to start, so I'll just launch in:

 

I'm not necessarily sorry Hanmaio is gone. I think Edmond showed some real weakness this challenge though, and sadly, because I had been kind of liking him, I think they were correct to raise some questions about his taste level.

 

I like Kelly but can't stand Blake so I'm glad they weren't in the top. I'll be glad when Amanda finally leaves; there's something about her that is intrinsically unpleasant to me.

 

Everyone has a pretty strong personality so I'm finding it easier to remember some of these people, earlier than I have in most seasons since they jumped to Lifetime. A few of the personalities are unpleasant, but they're memorable.

 

I thought the Lindsay/Jake thing was pretty much a non-starter. Not that it's right, but she kind of ran roughshod over him so he shut down. I do that sometimes, too. He said on the runway, that if they won, the look was all her and yet she still felt the need to stomp on him over and over gain. He's no prize, but neither is she. And I thought the sheer long whatever over the shorts was kind of meh. She did a lot of work, but his top was the best constructed piece of the ensemble so I call them even.

 

Merline may be a double handful but Joseph can leave anytime now. He was a total dick and when he tried to blame the shittiness that was their "St Petersburg" outfit ON Merline, I was gobsmacked. The design was all him; the horrible construction of the dress was all him, it was just totally ALL HIM. Merline was nowhere to be seen in that garment. And has Nina gone insane???? When she said it's admirable for him to design for an older client, after all the times she has called various designs mumsy, old, not young enough, etc etc ad infinitum, I almost lost it. It actually IS good for someone to not necessarily design for ages 12 to Heidi, but all we've ever heard from Nina is how something is not young enough, or it's too "old lady" to be stylish, and now she's taking up for this guy? Not only that, but his design wasn't JUST mumsy it was BAD. Everything he's done so far has been BAD. He needs to go next week, and I sincerely hope he does. I hope that Merline outlasts him, at the very least.

 

Finally, I'm going to go out on a very narrow limb and say I didn't like the finished product of the winning look very much AT ALL. Everything was just too much. TER told one team, "if you have seven ideas, drop half of them" but then they gave the elephant leg pants with box pleats, pockets, in a textured fabric, striped top with swingset attachment on the back, which hung below the 1970s and not in a necessarily good way capelet that is the same pattern as some kitchen mitt puppets that I made in home ec to which I attached googly eyes and furry ball noses... anyway, they gave that the win? I'm wondering if they did it because everything else was so bad or if they were trying to reward the courage it took to put all of that together?? I mean it did take some gigantor balls to send that down the runway, I guess...

Still, I liked Swapnil and Laurie's the best, even though it was mostly Swapnil. He may NOT be the most original designer on the planet, but based on everything else we've seen so far this season, I think he's been robbed a couple times.

[shksabelle]

And then she happens to mention TER, and *boom* she's the guest judge the very same week!  What a coincidence.

 

I agree - producer shenanigans on this.  I am guessing one designer per week is going to be fed some lines to shill something.  I thought that last week with Swapnil gushing about Hallmark.

This show has become nothing but product placement.

Just Fab, Mary Kay,and Sally Beauty -- seriously?????  I'm predicting next year will be Target then, inevitably, Walmart. 

[English Teacher]

I just woke up thinking about how this challenge could have been much more interesting.

This should have been the unconventional one....take designers out to sea for a three hour tour, cast them adrift on a seemingly uncharted island, and have them design a line of no fewer than 4 different looks for their collection. And they graciously have two days...but that includes swimming ashore in shark infested waters and having to make a radio out of coconuts to signal that they are done. Oh...let's make it a team challenge! The winner of each team will have his looks featured on a slideshow of Those People at Walmart and losers will be chum to distract the Sharks so the winners can swim back to the boat

...too much?

[Camomile]

While Hanmiao and Edmond show to be the spotlight, I think Joe and Jake seem to have more issues than we can see. If Lindsey was in the bottom she would have lots of things to tell the judges.

 

Not totally Hanmiao's fault, but she's the only feasible choice to go. Sadly she can't meet more big names before she leaves.

 

[mansonlamps]

I couldn't sleep so I rewatched part of the episode last night. One thing to clear up, Tim said "Sun outfit," not sunsuit or swimsuit when talking to Edmond and Hanmiao for whatever that's worth.

In my rewatch, I can't imagine any other outcome based on this team's dynamic. Whether or not a lot of it had to do with editing, this is all the viewer has to go by. Edmond was shown bending over backwards trying to collaborate with his partner who had shut down almost immediately due to their different aesthetics and didn't seem to know how to or want to deal with it. Plus telling him to "shut up" not once but twice is unbelievably rude. The one thing I don't get at all is why Edmond made that horrible skirt when he has been shown to have more talent than that in the previous challenges.

Regardless this overall challenge had some hideous final looks all around and I'm going to blame the designers' lack of opportunity to pick their own fabrics and the ridiculous eight hour time frame. I never give up on shows typically, but this may be the first if the producers continue to create challenges in which no one could possibly produce something really impeccably made and beautiful. And no, Tim Gunn, eight hours does not equal sixteen hours when two people are involved since, as you all keep pointing out, they need to spend a lot of time on the collaboration. Gah, this has become frustrating.

[WearyTraveler]

In my country we have a saying that goes something like this: "One woman gives birth to one baby in 9 months, two women don't give birth to one baby in 4 and half months"

[Day2Day]

That reminds me. Nina's jokes about the side bib and mullet shirt were super lame. Just... stop. Why do we still have to deal with Nina? It was so bad it made me miss her insights on "foaming vaginas." *eye roll*

I agree !! 

[Bebecat]

Maybe there is a good reason Edmond never made it onto the show before.

[CraftyHazel]

Maybe there is a good reason Edmond never made it onto the show before.

I'd have to agree. His week one look was basic as hell...a tube dress with a train...and in no way deserved a top three placement. His week two look was imaginative and interesting, but not without its problems...you definitely get some peek-a-boo action when the model walks the runway. I would also argue that although it deserved top three, Swapnil's look was more fully realized and actually wearable. And this week, he spent 8 hours arguing with Hanmiao and throwing a waistband on an unhemmed length of garish yellow fabric. Oh yes...he also made a hot pink swimsuit because he couldn't stop being a control freak, despite the fact that he himself had immunity and wouldn't be going anywhere no matter what Hanmiao sent down the runway. And those strings tied around the model's waist were all on him.

I'm just not as impressed with Edmond so far as he himself seems to be. In fact, I believe that design-wise, this season's men are a pretty weak lot. Only Swapnil (and possibly the departed David) seem to have the level of talent that Ashley and Candace seem to possess. (Although I hated...with the white hot burning fire of a million suns...what Ashley and Candace designed this week!). I think this is the season for a female winner, and it won't surprise me one bit if it's Ashley.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Marmiarmo

[Adiba]

I watched the first few seasons of PR and then took a break from it. The other day I was channel-surfing and caught this epi. Oops, sucked into the vortex again!

I really did not like any of the finished looks, and as other posters have said, it could have been due to the ridiculous time constraint and ( producer- driven?) team pairings.

The winning look? Hid. E. Ous. The designers may be talented, but there was just too much going on. How many times have judges reamed out other contestants for this very thing? And box pleats on trousers that will make any but the thinnest woman look bottom-heavy-- another thing that has been criticized in past shows.

I love a sexy back cowl, however, that top was ridiculous, imo.

Still love Tim Gunn however wrong he may be sometimes.

[atir]

Could Edmond have totally acquiesced to Hanmiou & said, "i have immunity, so let's do whatever you want. "

[Mabinogia]

Could Edmond have totally acquiesced to Hanmiou & said, "i have immunity, so let's do whatever you want. "

 

I would like to know his logic behind why he didn't. It could go two ways in my mind depending on the kind of person he is and I don't know him enough yet to tell. He either wants to do his best whether he's immune or not, and he might have been trying to join the two in a row club, or he is an ads who wanted to eliminate competition. I'm thinking the former because so far I've not seen evidence that he's that big an ass (though plenty of others showed potential this ep), and because I just can't see Hanmiao as that much competition for any of them. IMO she was the weakest designer there. Boxy and shapeless is something a home ec student could do. If you do boxy and shapeless on a design competition it has to be impeccably constructed and have some kind of intricacy in color/pattern/design. But that brown paper bag she made last time seemed more like a glued together art project so not sorry to see her go, though I really think Merlene's partner (Joe?) should have been there with her not Marlene. That Queen Mum getup was 100% his work.

 

I did enjoy seeing Candace and Ashley working so well together. I also thought Team India worked well together and I would have given them the win because that was a great look and felt very much like something someone would wear in India without it screaming "This is an Indian costume" *cough* team Hong Kong *cough* I just do not get the judges liking that look. I found it about as Hong Kong as Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's.

[Julia]

I would say that the logic behind Edmond not going with Hanmiao's ideas despite being safe was that when he pointed out that he was safe and begged her to articulate her ideas, she sulked and refused to engage. The one thing she was willing to offer was something she insisted she didn't like because she was trying to second-guess his taste. There was nothing for him to cooperate with.

[JasmineFlower]

Could Edmond have totally acquiesced to Hanmiou & said, "i have immunity, so let's do whatever you want. "

 

No. People who coast on immunity weeks don't fare well on PR. That's close to what Ashley did last week and she was under fire because of it this week. I wasn't a big fan of her outfit, but she successfully recovered in their minds. Edmond's on their radar for his taste level, but had he just bailed on the challenge completely, they wouldn't have forgotten it at all next week and the following, it's something they would continue to remember if he doesn't end up on top again. He can coast on the taste level for a few weeks if the execution is good and maybe improve his taste level to what the judges want. Already he's taken Tim's advice to improve his looks, so it's possible.

[Knuckles]

Can I join in the chorus of WTF on the "winning look". Pants too short, a double cowl and the second rung of said cowl bouncing on the modlel's ass below the multi-colored capelet/jacket. And this earned the enthusiasm of the judges?  I'm trying to imagine some poor woman wearing this as she walks into a restaurant for her dinner reservation. I assume the maitre 'd would put her near the kitchen.

 

Edmund and Hammiao..a trainwreck in action. Neutral on Edmund, but she is a stubborn, unyielding bitch, unwilling to consider moving outside her design vision even slightly. And using non-stretch cotton to make a bathing suit screamed clueless right there. Agree or disagree on doing a bathing suit, but at least choose the right material. Also, I read her bathroom stunt with the model as disrespectful bordering on racist...why listen to the black guy, or even try to work with him? Glad she is gone.

 

Yeah, I thought Russia as well...so lavender threw me. They're designers so they could have done a pre-Revolutionary take, circa YSL in the seventies, if they could find some decent fabric, or modern Russian oligarch's wives...who favor very sexy, very gilded lily looks. Whatever, it was a basic sheath...that did not even fit. 

Again, lose the cape thing..

 

Swapnil's sari take was wonderfully done, but Laurie's pants did not fit well. His work saved their effort.

 

Tracee Ross was a fabulous judge...on point, clear, professional and fair to each contestant. Nice to see a self-confident judge not need to score snarky points...looking at you, Garcia. 

[Beden]

 

We could probably put it to rest if someone at PR would deign to explain why orchid colored fabrics have something to do with Russia.

There actually is a tie in here, obscure though it is. Back in the day the late Czarina Alexandra was known (among other things) for her love of lavender and had decorated her entire bedroom suite in that color. I believe she also often wore the color. A stretch, yes, but there it is.

 

And maybe it's just me, but this unending youth train is annoying and ageist. Not everyone is 19, not everyone wants to wear too short shorts and not everyone needs being over (gasp) 40 to be something to hide or as an insult. Boring and dumpy, no. Well designed and age appropriate isn't a bad thing. And on a practical level, we also have money to spend and are a target market who don't all buy our clothes in Walmart and actually appreciate good fabrics and well designed clothing.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Beden

[slothgirl]

Hammiao ... is a stubborn, unyielding bitch, unwilling to consider moving outside her design vision even slightly. Also, I read her bathroom stunt with the model as disrespectful bordering on racist...why listen to the black guy, or even try to work with him?

 

I didn't see ANY evidence that her reaction to Edmond was based on his race or that she has responded in the workroom in other scenes differently to various contestants based on race. Are you saying that she wouldn't have been an "unyielding bitch, unwilling to consider moving outside her design vision even slightly." with a non-black partner?

 

I think if there had been any hint of racism coming from her at any point in time, the editing monkeys would have been all over and even exaggerated it. When she was leaving, everyone, (including Swapnil who already had his own encounter with ignorance/racism) was supportive and sad. I can't imagine that they would respond that way to her if she had exhibited even the slightest level of racism during her time there. They really seemed to like her.

 

And maybe it's just me, but this unending youth train is annoying and ageist. Not everyone is 19, not everyone wants to wear too short shorts and not everyone needs being over (gasp) 40 to be something to hide or as an insult. Boring and dumpy, no. Well designed and age appropriate isn't a bad thing. And on a practical level, we also have money to spend and are a target market who don't all buy our clothes in Walmart and actually appreciate good fabrics and well designed clothing.

This.

 

The annoying thing is that they also complain when something is "too junior" and they praise designers for making "age appropriate" outfits for the "real women" models who are over 40. It's hypocrisy to require that when dressing an actual customer but ding designers for it when doing "fashion design".

Edited August 23, 2015 by slothgirl

[RealityCowgirl]

My read on that duo dynamic is colored by Hanmiao's comments in the casting show, where she basically said (paraphrasing), "I know best. Other people's viewpoints don't matter."

I was multitasking during the workroom scenes and probably missed less than helpful contributibutions by Edmond, just enough of her demonstrating - not with her words, unfortunately - her pre-show comments.

[Julia]

Not everyone is 19, not everyone wants to wear too short shorts and not everyone needs being over (gasp) 40 to be something to hide or as an insult. Boring and dumpy, no. Well designed and age appropriate isn't a bad thing. And on a practical level, we also have money to spend and are a target market who don't all buy our clothes in Walmart and actually appreciate good fabrics and well designed clothing.

 

Absolutely. But that's why I found it a little insulting that when he showed that ill-made dowdy thing, which absent the cape I'm pretty sure I could find the shape of in the Chadwick's catalog, he defended it by saying that he's designing for, essentially, me. And the judges nodded, and he tweeted up a storm of Golden Girl references?

 

Which, no. Even if I don't have a choice of designers Nina would approve of, I have more choice than that. I have no problem with people hanging around their kitchens dressed like the Golden Girls if that's what they're comfortable in and can afford, but this is a fashion competition, not a battle of the low-end ready-to-wear niches. If he wants to design fashion for older women, he should be designing for older women who want age-appropriate flattering clothes in less perfect-figure-dependent styles than the clothes they wore as 19 year olds. 

Edited August 23, 2015 by Julia

[mansonlamps]

Also Zach lost a lot of respect from me for his childish "oversexed grandma" critique. First of all, the last thing that outfit conveyed by any stretch of the imagination was sex. Second of all, "grandma" is probably not the huge put down he seems to think it is. I've known a 31 year old grandma (obviously not the norm), but tons of grandma's are in their forties and fifties, not exactly women who have given up on fashion.

He was taking a page from the Nina Garcia book of juvenile phraseology used in an attempt to seem funny, cool or edgy. At least he stopped short of actually using the word vagina which is a favorite of Nina.

[mansonlamps]

 

Also, I read her bathroom stunt with the model as disrespectful bordering on racist...why listen to the black guy, or even try to work with him?

Using this logic almost any thing said or done by any designer to another can be construed as racist. Since this show casts people of both genders and all races, any action by any one of them could be cast in the light of "why listen to the xxxxx guy/girl?

[ethalfrida]

One of my neighbers and I were talking about her bodega and items she hoped to sell. English is her second language. I was totally surprised when she said "I know everything!" I was thinking... who brags that they are so far above everyone else? But later I had to laugh because what she meant was she knew how to do several crafts therefore she would have a choice of what to sell. Sometimes it is just word usage and not so much the intent to insult.

Edited August 23, 2015 by ethalfrida

[Freckledbruh]

 

I have no problem with people hanging around their kitchens dressed like the Golden Girls

Hold on there buddy.  Blanche was FIERCE!!!

[aradia22]

 

The one thing I don't get at all is why Edmond made that horrible skirt when he has been shown to have more talent than that in the previous challenges.

While I don't think he's that talented as a designer from what we've seen so far, my guess is that they spent A LOT of time arguing and they only had 8 hours. I don't know when he made the decision to make that pink bathing suit. Assuming he did it earlier than it seemed from the editing, then he spent the bulk of his time on the pink bathing suit and just threw the skirt together which is why it looked like a shower curtain. Or something worn on the first season of Threads. 

[Julia]

Hold on there buddy.  Blanche was FIERCE!!!

 

She was. She was also fine-boned and exactly a foot shorter than I am :)

[Ms Blue Jay]

Joseph (?) made a bunch of judgements about Merline and then handcuffed her accordingly and then treated her like garbage basically, and then on the runway when HIS design and execution was criticized he blamed Merline.  I know I'm echoing other posts here, but what an ass.

[English Teacher]

I actually loved it when Edmonds model said, my mother told me never to wear yellow.

The writing was on the wall, dude.

[7-Zark-7]

Oh, Camomile, thanks for the image.  From the very beginning, I kept hoping Hanmiao would say "No capes!"

[ratgirlagogo]

 

I'm predicting next year will be Target then, inevitably, Walmart.

Target would be a massive step up since they do all those budget lines from big time designers.  As far as that goes I'm not sure Walmart isn't a step up from JustFab.

[Julia]

Target would be a massive step up since they do all those budget lines from big time designers.  As far as that goes I'm not sure Walmart isn't a step up from JustFab.

Unfortunately Nina has left Target. Maybe JC Penney will be interested.

[DHDancer]

"google Chinese kimono" and when you do, most of the images are of Japanese kimonos.   What would have been much more appropriate was to base their design on the cheongsam.

 

It's all been said upthread, but my 2c anyway:  I can see why the judges liked the winning outfit:  it was original, and contained interesting pieces.  I thought it was hideous myself but could see why they picked it.   The Greek outfit was safe because it was not original, and bordered on too literal IMO but it was complete and appeared well made.  I loved the Sari-inspired outfit but it did need better fit and more color (I didn't see what fabric options were available).  The South-of-France again was too literal and the fit of that top was beyond bad -- completely distracting. I'm of the opinion that the St Petersburg colors were supposed to be representative of the colors you see there (although pale blue seems more relevant to me)   http://cache-graphicslib.viator.com/graphicslib/destination/st-petersburg-134166.jpg  Ultimately the outfit was not "Russian" enough and didn't fit well.

 

Am I crazy for hoping things will improve?  I so miss classic PR.....

Edited August 23, 2015 by DHDancer

[remmybrat]

    ATIR  you are right Tim did say sunsuit.   Edmond said swim suit reight after ,so that maybe why most people aren't sure what was said,

[dgpolo]

No, remmybrat
 

ATIR  you are right Tim did say sunsuit.   Edmond said swim suit reight after ,so that maybe why most people aren't sure what was said,

 

 

mansonlamps was right

I couldn't sleep so I rewatched part of the episode last night. One thing to clear up, Tim said "Sun outfit," not sunsuit or swimsuit when talking to Edmond and Hanmiao for whatever that's worth.

 

he definitely said sun outfit. whatever that means.

[NewDigs]

To me, the difference is significant.

Not a big Hanmiao fan but if Edmond misheard, or heard what he wanted to hear, it could mean her seemingly unclear idea might have worked. She was not prepared for the "suit" part of Edmond's equation. Edmond seemed determined to prove that the Caribbean is defined by swimsuits.

A sun outfit could be a whole lot more than that.

I did not know that Nina ever had a connection to Target. Glad she's gone. Only because I really don't like her. And I do like Target. And they have sold some pretty amazing designers.

The ageism this episode was appalling. It's always bad but, geesh. Over-sexed grandma? And I was liking Zac.

[slothgirl]

"google Chinese kimono" and when you do, most of the images are of Japanese kimonos.   What would have been much more appropriate was to base their design on the cheongsam.

I didn't google for random images. I googled for "web" (ie: articles about the history of the garment and it's presence and name in various countries). I've googled for images of various things and people in the past and gotten results that were clearly not even related to what I was searching for. I don't trust google images at all.

 

 I think the cheognsam would have been equally as costumey, especially in that brocade. I think that given the fabric they had to work with, they should have gone out of their way to NOT design something that looked like traditional dress, but looked like something modern and fashionable for an international city like Hong Kong filled with influences from around the world. The fabric would do all the work of suggesting "China".

 

I agree that things are probably not going to improve, but I keep hoping as well. Maybe once we get some of the "chaff" separated, the wheat will get a chance to blossom.

Edited August 24, 2015 by slothgirl

[Ms Blue Jay]

I personally think a cheongsam or updated cheongsam would be amazing, the way that Swapnil and Laurie (I am terrible with names) tried to update the sari.

 

In the 90s there were so many beautiful uses of it in American pop culture - Rachel Green, Gwyneth Paltrow, Cassandra in Wayne's World 2, Nicole Kidman in Dior (kind of?) --- I've been fond of every time I've seen it used accordingly.  

 

It could be done as a shirt with a skirt, or a shirt with pants, or something... at least it would have been way more "on the nose" than a kimono.  The judges don't seem to mind when you go a bit costume-y.  Just make it well.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Sayla Vee]

This post was not mine.  I just ran across it in another thread and thought the information might be interesting to all of you who think garments like a kimino are indigenous to Japan.

 

It says......

 

I found these videos comparing Kimono, Hanfu and other styles rather interesting.

http://yangandchinesecloth.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-difference-between-japanese-kimono.html

There are some clear differences as well as obvious similarities.

As well as this short article:

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-chinese-kimono.htm

From the article:

"Though commonly thought of as a traditional Japanese garment, the kimono actually traces its origins to China. The Chinese kimono, first worn during the Qing Dynasty, was a silk robe worn by those of the upper class. More correctly known as a hanfu, this garment features full, sweeping sleeves with a cross-body collar and is often tied at the waist"

And this one (confirming the idea that the "kimono" type garment originated in China):

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Kimono.aspx

I don't know whether Lindsey is simply ignorant of the difference between Japanese and Chinese, or whether she was using the term to convey a generic "robe" type of garment. Either way, while the term "Kimono" might be usually specific to Japan (since, as the encyclopedia article points out, it is just a Japanese word meaning "thing to wear" which came into usage in the late 19th century) the general concept of the garment is not at all unique to Japan.

 

[Lurifax]

Given that Joseph and Merline had loads of brocades and St Petersburg as inspiration, they had so many starting points that weren't going to lead to a dull sheath dress and a bib. How about the boyars' fabulous long brocade coats that Peter the Great made them give up? Catherine the Great, all shoulders and Austin Scarlett? Anna Karenina? The last empress Alexandra, Edwardian elegance and lego'mutton sleeves? Today's oligarch wives?

I suppose they are meant to use the place as inspiration, rather than dress people to fit in today (in which case the answer would always be jeans) or dress people to go there on holiday (in which case the answer would always be jeans)

I can't wait for this season to reach us in Sweden, so I can see it, not just read this forum and look at the photos on the Lifetime site. We just got PR Junior instead - sigh