S02.E05: Episode 5

[Jax7917]

Joe is a douche , no doubt . But I really do not feel bad for juelia at all . First of all it really annoys me that she and the others seem to think it's so wrong to play someone in paradise for a rose , meanwhile every one of them , juelia included , has done the same exact thing . I'm not defending joe and I really think he's a sociopath who is very unnatractive and psycho killer status , but that's the point of this show. In order to see who better comes along you obviously have to give the rose to people you're not necessarily crazy about . And on Chris' season as well as BIP all you see is juelia crying all day long and missing her daughter ... Well she should be home with a 2 year old instead of missing out on half her life while she chooses to be on a reality tv show that obviously is made to depict drama , not to meet normal level - headed people . It's calling a dating website . Use it .

And

And Ashley I has no right to laugh at anybody for being dramatic when she is the most annoying crier ever .

I agree with this that the theme of the show this week was the guy realizing that they're not that into the girl and doing a 180 on them . Even though Kirk got a pass tonight , I sense it coming in the upcoming weeks . And I think it's crazy how Carly could miss her brothers wedding for this . I would kill my sister if she ever missed my wedding to be on reality TV

[FamilyVan]

I think a mistake a lot of these reality show folks make is they think they can "play" the show.  And I don't mean just on Bachelor, I see this on Real Housewives and others.  The cast members think they know how to work the system, they think they understand the parameters of the show and that they can work a situation in to their favor, or make something happen on the show that will ultimately benefit them.  But they forget that they are the cast.  They are the ones being filmed, they are not the producers, or the editors.  Everything they do and say is being filmed and recorded and at any given time the show can include the development of their plan as a storyline. Simply exposing the fact that they had a crafty plan, regardless if said plan was good intentions/bad intentions, will make them look like complete tools.  

[Dirtybubble]

I don't really blame Joe for liking Samantha over Juelia that's just how the dating world works--I just don't like the way he handled it.  He wouldn't even speak to her about it afterwards.  That "I don't wanna" comment just sounded like a spoiled 4-yr-old having to go apologize to his little sister.  At least Kirk & Dan spoke to their "girlfriends" about it. 

 

Yeah Juelia is coming across as a desperate victim sometimes.  The problem is that is all anyone is going to see when they look at her, a victim.   I know it's tuff sweetie but buck up and go out and get you a good man. 

 

Oh and the racoon and Claire thing is getting a little stale IMO.  The phone call--I mean come on, how corny can you get.  To me it's not funny anymore, just stupid.

 

 

[TheFinalRose]

Frankly, even if any of them manage to connect at the end of this thing, I find it really doubtful that they will have long lasting relationships.  I'd love to be wrong, but there is just so little quality to these partnerships, unless I missed something, that I don't see anything sustaining them once the sun and fun and booze runs out.

 

 

 

When they showed us the two minutes of Jade and Tanner together I already had forgotten about them. But it seems that they ARE being normal, and low-key in developing a relationship, so no teevee time for them!!

 

Oh Jue- Ellia (that's how I pronounce it)! Lucky for you that that super dumb "I am wearing a sobrero" Megan is there now to reign as the most stupid contestant.  But Jue-ellia, here's what it was: You entertained Jonathon to stick around and get a rose from him. You volunteer for the date with Joe because he didn't man up and ask anyone specific. The day after your date Joe doesn't even look at you. You are warned by two different guys that Joe isn't into you. You ignore that and drop Jonathon, so he goes home, and still give Joe your rose. The next day Samantha arrives and Joe is stuck to her like glue. You still don't get it.  Joe sucks as a human being. How can you not see that? 

 

 

The turn of events on Carly and Kirk's date seemed weird to me. First, Kirk says in an ITM that he's not ready for intimacy and things are moving too fast for him. Then Carly spends most of the date talking about her brother's wedding and even calls him in front of Kirk - which would have been a turnoff on any other first date - and suddenly Kirk is all raring to go? I wonder if producers paid him a bonus or promised future famewhoring opportunities for sealing the deal with Carly.

 

 

 

Color me just as confused. But then I realize it is my fault if I continue to expect editorial integrity on this show. Glad to hear that Carly's brother Zak managed to get married without having to whore himself out on Bachelor Nation television. See Carly, it can be done.

 

 

[Primetimer]

The dummies on Bachelor In Paradise continue to weave tangled webs of intrigue. Also: sex in a pool, sombreros, crab cannibalism.

Read the story

[Dirtybubble]

Oh Jue- Ellia (that's how I pronounce it)! Lucky for you that that super dumb "I am wearing a sobrero" Megan is there now to reign as the most stupid contestant.  But Jue-ellia, here's what it was: You entertained Jonathon to stick around and get a rose from him. You volunteer for the date with Joe because he didn't man up and ask anyone specific. The day after your date Joe doesn't even look at you. You are warned by two different guys that Joe isn't into you. You ignore that and drop Jonathon, so he goes home, and still give Joe your rose. The next day Samantha arrives and Joe is stuck to her like glue. You still don't get it.  Joe sucks as a human being. How can you not see that?

 

Aww well that's a little harsh; she isn't dumb she just became wrapped up in the game.  It's easy for us to see what a a-hole Joe is because the show let's us see it.  But when you're filled with alcohol, little sleep, and all of your friends are pairing off then I guess she got wrapped up in the excitement of the new guy.  *shrug*

 

 

 

[Bugs Meany]

The great irony of the Joe-Samantha collusion: Juelia [sic] was told in advance who was coming. Remember when she showed her daughter the guys' headshots? Unless she printed out every headshot ever, there's no way she would have expected Dan and Kirk to be there.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Bugs Meany

[ShaNaeNae]

I was more angry after watching last nights show. I'm going to try and be brave and put on my don't take this so seriously pants because I was so done.

Yes, Joe is a creepy, dirty, psycho guy. I won't even call him man. Can't stand his ugly face. I do think he's ugly, his face looks like a peanut.

But Jesus God Juleiah (however the fuck you spell it), quit being the fucking victim. Get a backbone, take off those fake lashes (there's a time and a place for them), get a Brazilian blow out on that rats nest, let some time pass to mourn your ex, take care of your daughter and then look for a man. Everyone was walking around blaming Joe for playing the single mom widow and she should be home with her daughter. Yes, she should. She left her daughter twice this year to be on stupid reality shows that we all know you have little to no chance of finding actual love. Sometimes as a single parent, love has to go on the backburner. I speak this as one. Her child should come first.

Joe is an asshole, but let him go. This whole mob mentality of "let's go find him, gather him, bring him to Juleiah and burn him" is ridiculous. They had 1 date. He said this, he said that. Who cares. Guys say that shit all the time, especially when they're trying to get laid. Let it go girl, wipe those tears away and go home to your baby.

[Rainsong]

When you're wrong, you're wrong, and I was wrong about Joe 'doing a Nick' by communicating with Samantha and essentially rigging the process even if neither could be sure of the timing of their respective arrivals.

 

Perhaps there was a threat of a labor action by the editing staff but mercifully Clare (who has been reduced to unfunny comedic relief) and Ms. Pac-Man (aka Ashley I) had mere cameos in this episode which might have been titled 'The Life & Loves Of Ordinary Joe.'

 

Perhaps they locked Samantha in a hotel room for a week but this pageant girl was hot to trot upon arrival.  There can be no doubt that she was told, asked, encouraged, whatever to launch herself at Joe and that's exactly what happened to his everlasting delight.

 

Those condemning Joe for Playing The Game are, to some extent, missing the point because that is the only way to remain on the show.  At the risk of tooting my own horn, however, I pointed out last season that The Game does not necessarily lead to the desired outcome ie a committed, even engaged couple if participants in The Game must play the adult version of musical chairs in order to stay on.  Fleiss, Harrison et al are hoping that with enough urgent voiceovers, ham-fisted edits and those ubiquitous cymbal crescendos (ssssssssSSSSSSSSS!!!!) you won't notice the disconnect between rules and objective.

 

Shows like this and the UK's recently-completed Love Island all share this contradiction both in terms of gameplay and audience interest.  A subset of the audience wants harmony, peace and, yes, love via couples forming at the earliest opportunity and remaining stable.  But that's boring to many, not least the producers.  And so the contradiction arises when the 'free radicals' bounce around trying to find a mate for purely political reasons.  Drama needs conflict and there is little drama in loved-up couples snuggling in a hammock for hours on end even with the voyeuristic aspect.

 

Which brings us back to Joe/Samantha/Juelia.  Juelia is, depending on your views, foolish, desperate or delusional in both her expectations for BIP or her expectations of Joe specifically, with or without Samantha's arrival.  It's a shame but not a surprise that Jade has thrown in with the tar-and-feathers crowd...but she has clearly always been a follower.  Exactly why Dan believes it's his place to stick his oar in is a mystery, along with his stated desire to inflict bodily harm on Joe whose crime, apparently, is changing his mind.     But wait - isn't that exactly what Dan is doing with his cold-feet routine that has left Ashley S in a rather feisty mood? Granted, Dan isn't changing partners - yet - but he will have no choice if he continues down that path.

 

Juelia has adopted many females' time-honored circular method of inflicting emotional hurt on the person who inflicted the original emotional hurt by asking questions that have no satisfactory answers ie they are meant simply to ratchet up the tension and - she hopes - transform her anger into his guilt.  It's been more or less scientifically demonstrated that males get tongue-tied under emotional stress.  The so-called stoic, callous, unfeeling lack of response from males so often bemoaned by women actually has a psychological and physiological basis.  But Juelia is 30 years old, is a widowed mother and still can't deliver a sentence that describes her feelings without redundant 'I feel like....' preambles, adolescent cliches such as 'I've been played' and/or outright prompting from Dan & Jade?

 

First of all, Juelia, the situation could not be more obvious.  Your unwillingness to countenance reality is not the fault of Joe even if he's acted like an unmitigated cad.  You can get upset about holding the short straw but your claims that you are mystified by events is either a) a red-flag warning that you lack intelligence or b) simply an especially annoying drawn-out way of bitching in a place where the surfeit of downtime can get oppressive.  In any case, your constant running of fingers across eyebrows, under eyes and along nose while you cry at length is massively distracting.  Are there any tissues on Planet Bachelor?

 

At the risk of piling on, Juelia's speech pattern is maddening, most notably her tendency to draw her chin in at the end of a sentence.  This restricts the movement of her jaw, teeth and tongue and prevents words from being enunciated correctly.  Say 'I went to the store to buy some milk' while drawing your chin in before the word 'some.'  Instant Juelia!  Psychologically, she's a fascinating case study.  It's a physical manifestation of her lack of confidence born of obvious emotional damage.  She is literally pulling back from perceived (but imaginary) danger like a turtle pulling its head into its shell.

 

Speaking of a lack of intelligence, along comes Megan.  Ashley S has more or less perfected the head-in-the-clouds act but is actually quite intelligent, especially emotionally, and knows when to turn the act on and off as she has with Dan (she also looked Bailey Quarters-hot in her glasses.  Wow.).  Megan, on the other hand, is plain old ignorant.  Her volume of speech and giggling are defense mechanisms - along with a formidable pair of assets - and she's obviously received reinforcement from the producers and the wider world to carry on the act lest people discover what a dull, dim bulb she is.

 

Kirk sees himself becoming whipped in real time but has apparently gladly accepted his fate.  However, the Ep 1 teaser reel shows Carly in floods of tears so maybe it's the usual red-herring setup.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Rainsong

[atlanticslide]

Juelia does not get extra consideration because she's a single mom whose husband committed suicide. She's a total idiot for being on this show. Rules don't need to be made up to accommodate her being there. She glommed onto and ditched a single father. Pot, meet kettle. The suicide card needs to be taken off the table. I don't like Chris Soules, but felt for him when she dumped that limp emotional blackmailed attempt on him.

Go home, tend your child, and do something with that rats nest on your head. All I felt for her during the exchange with her toddler was contempt. She's just as fucked up as anyone else there, but quieter. Also, much dumber.

I wouldn't say that the rules need to be changed for her or whatever, but just be a decent person. Yes, it was her decision to go on the show, and whatever her reasons for doing so, your husband committing suicide (and did she say that he actually did it in front of her?) is a horrible thing to experience and I can see how that would have a serious effect on you even when you may get to the point where you think you're moving past it. You shouldn't toy with anyone's emotions, and Joe would be a dick whether this was Juelia or Jade or Carly or anyone, but I think it'd be easier to write off in the latter cases and easier for them to shrug it off. But I think you especially shouldn't toy with the emotions of someone who's lost a spouse. Be a decent person and just be honest with her.

[FireFoxy]

I see Kirk has no romantic interest in Carly and is just wanting to ride this out, no pun intended, until the end. He might as well said, "Eh, I'm getting laid and on vacation so fuck it!".

 

Dan is a very attractive guy but my gaydar goes off on him. I don't know what it was about Des' crop of men but so, so many of them pinged in, including Brooks and Michael. Ashley is awesome and Dan is an idiot.

 

Juelia is an idiot. Everyone tried so hard to warn her yet she wouldn't listen.

 

Joe is a Home Depot and the fact that Samantha is into him speaks volumes to me about her as a person. Was she giving him a hand job in the pool?!? Gross!

[Canada]

Okay, there is no way in hell that Samantha is 28 years old.

[Rainsong]

 

"Bye, Felicia"? Who's Felicia?! 

 

'Bye, Felicia':  a quote from the film 'Friday' starring Ice Cube & Chris Tucker featuring a mundane-turned-eventful, er, Friday in an LA neighborhood full of comedic characters.  Felicia is the burnout sister of Ice Cube's girlfriend who appears several times begging for drugs, money and even the use of a car.

 

Ice Cube's patience with her ran out long ago so his response is a curt 'Bye, Felicia.'  Not exactly the stuff of Hollywood screenplay legend but it's become a catchphrase nonetheless.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Rainsong

[sidekickgirl]

Joe may be laughing now, but I think his behavior on the show will affect his life after Paradise.  The lack of common decency will not be overlooked by everyone he comes across in his travels.  The fame from being on this show will fade faster than he may think, and he'll be left with the fact that he presented himself as a complete piece of human waste. 

 

He didn't owe JuELia love, friendship or a rose.  A "Hey, I feel something (TWSS) for Samantha and I'm going to invest some time and see where it goes. Peace out" would have sufficed.  The silence, assholery and flaunting was unnecessary. 

 

JuELia, buck up and gain some perspective.  Did you really want Joe? 

Didn't think so.

[Dirtybubble]

Joe may be laughing now, but I think his behavior on the show will affect his life after Paradise.  The lack of common decency will not be overlooked by everyone he comes across in his travels.  The fame from being on this show will fade faster than he may think, and he'll be left with the fact that he presented himself as a complete piece of human waste.

 

 

ITA!  He'll probably be on After Paradise but honestly that's it.  I can only assume/hope his over-the-top douchery is to get more screen time but

once Samantha dumps him for Nick his time is over

 

What does TWSS mean?

 

[Dittohead]

 

What does TWSS mean?

It means "that's what she said."  I had to look it up, too.

[Dittohead]

 

Oh, this dimwit Megan. Dan, you don't need to go from the crazy girl to the stupid girl.

I know, right?  Ashley S is such a better choice.  I don't believe she's really all that "crazy" since we have seen her act more sanely than most of these other dingbats recently.  She's beautiful, sharp, and so much more interesting than that drunken idiot Megan.  Perhaps Dan deserves that, though, if that's what attracts him.

 

I also don't get the whole Kirk/Carly thing.  I was getting all excited with the idea of him dumping her and moving on, since he is now questioning his feelings for her, and then he changes his mind just because she called her brother on the phone?  What kind of sense does that make?.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Dittohead

[sidekickgirl]

It means "that's what she said."  I had to look it up, too.

 

 

ITA!  He'll probably be on After Paradise but honestly that's it.  I can only assume/hope his over-the-top douchery is to get more screen time but

once Samantha dumps him for Nick his time is over

 

What does TWSS mean?

I can hardly wait - I wish I could marathon the whole season, I can't get enough of this crap.  We need Joe on after Paradise, I'd like to see him try and speak to Sir. Chris Harrison with his attitude.

[ShaNaeNae]

Dan should walk the talk and give busted, green haired, sad sack 2 year old leaver Juelia a rose.    Didn't she play Jonathon to stay longer?   Is it now a rule that anyone who goes on a date with her must marry  her and adopt her kid?  

 

Joe is gross, but he doesn't owe her anything.   She was warned he was a dick, but shunned the guys who warned her.   That's a straight quid pro quo from where I stand.   And god, is she boring and unattractive.     She'd look fine with better styling and a better attitude, but as it stands, she's bottom of the barrel on this show. 

 

Carly and Juelia really need to snuggle up to Ashley S. and get her to give them some of whatever she's using to keep her hair from turning green.    They both look positively mossy, especially muskrat haired Juelia.

 

Jared is so pretty

 

 

Juelia does not get extra consideration because she's a single mom whose husband committed suicide. She's a total idiot for being on this show. Rules don't need to be made up to accommodate her being there. She glommed onto and ditched a single father. Pot, meet kettle. The suicide card needs to be taken off the table. I don't like Chris Soules, but felt for him when she dumped that limp emotional blackmailed attempt on him.

Go home, tend your child, and do something with that rats nest on your head. All I felt for her during the exchange with her toddler was contempt. She's just as fucked up as anyone else there, but quieter. Also, much dumber.

 

I just had to quote copy all these because Mu Shu, you are awesome. You basically said everything I did, but in a better way.

[JudyObscure]

your husband committing suicide (and did she say that he actually did it in front of her?)

 

If I remember correctly -- and that's a big "if" -- Juelia's husband had been very depressed, to the point where she was a little afraid of him, so she took the baby and went to her parents house.  Sadly, he killed himself after she left. 

 

We need Joe on after Paradise, I'd like to see him try and speak to Sir. Chris Harrison with his attitude.

I'd like to see Chris get his tsk-tsk face on and say that the people on Twitter had been so cruel about him! Then, while sadly shaking his head about how mean some people are, Chris could read a few things from the message boards about what a  tool he was, mention that many people thought he was a psychopath and that brass knuckles are illegal in most states, finishing with a few quotes from posters who think he looks like Beevis,  kicked in the face by a horse, and someone who thinks he looks like a peanut. 

 

That would make After Paradise totally worth it for me.

Edited August 17, 2015 by JudyObscure

[TheFinalRose]

Ashley and Claire had about the same amount of investment in their dates at the time when the tables were turned on them; in fact it seems as if Ashley Onion had spent a lot of nice, reciprocal time with Dan, yet they were able to process pretty quickly the fact that they were being dumped. Jue-Ellia had a sit down with Joe after his date with Samantha, where they sat on that cushion about ten feet apart and Joe didn't look at her or do anything other than grunt and then run away as soon as he could, and Jue-Ellia still didn't get the message, and still needed some more talking with Joe.  Her inability to put two and two together after the guy has been cold to her, slobbered all over another girl, and after she had been warned twice by nice guys that Joe wasn't there for her is astounding.  

 

I guess the rest of the guys were hounding Joe because even they could see that this girl could not and would not take the hints she was getting, and thus Joe was required to spell it out for her. 

 

At least I have to hand it to Jue-Ellia. Threatening to talk to Samantha about Joe's behavior finally got an apology out of him. What a bunch of doofuses. 

[saber5055]

I'm surprised that Joe didnt do something more age appropriate like fart or pee in that pool.

 

 

Who says he didn't?

 

My take away from last night:

1. Joe is a liar. I know ... SURPRISE!

2. TPTB played Juelia, and played her from the start. TPTB knew Joe and Samantha were hot for each other, so waited to bring S. on until Juelia was fully invested. This because TPTB loves to demean women. Fleiss makes big bucks on his misogyny-in-prime-time tv shows.

3. Jade is mud-fence fugly in those talking heads. Good grief, girl, you looked good in your nude shoots, what the heck HAPPENED? Cut her hair off and she's even below-average-looking for a dude.

4. I actually felt my brain cells dying when Megan appeared on my screen. Literally. (Ha ha, yes!)

 

Thankfully, at that point Masterpiece Theater came on PBS and I turned over to watch my real tv boyfriend, Benedict C.

Edited August 17, 2015 by saber5055

[wovenloaf]

As gross as Joe is (and Samantha pawing/whatevering him on television in the pool? *barf* Get it together, girl.), I gotta agree with him that these guys have to mind their own business. Who are these dudes? I'm always amazed at how the show manages to find enough overly-gossipy men to even make these shows. Or men to play along with the script I guess, but Dan seemed to legitimately care...

 

I also found it entertaining when Joe was like "Nah we didn't talk very much. Just on text, phone, and social media." So...pretty much all the ways to have non-face-to-face communication with a person, short of smoke signals and the postal service (which is only for "old" people, no doubt)? They sure did go from "not talking much" to "handy in the pool" in a flash!

Edited August 17, 2015 by wovenloaf

[Trace]

I cannot speak for the area of Kentucky that Joe is from?  But here in Western Ky he would know what a loser he is.  Because we would inform him.  Honey you ain't all that nor a bag of vinegar & salt chips.  You suck.  Now be gone.

[Palomar]

Those condemning Joe for Playing The Game ™ are, to some extent, missing the point because that is the only way to remain on the show.

 

Which makes me remember that there was much more game on Bachelor Pad and the contestants openly did what they had to do to stay on the show and it was much more accepted.  As others have said, they really need to bring a few of the switch ups and games that show had.  I think they were trying to tone down the sleaze with the new Bachelor in Paradise premise but it is starting to get boring, especially since most of the contestants have nothing interesting to say. Definitely done with the Joe, Samantha, Julia drama and people being judgey.  Next.

[kira28]

Ok I really don't like Joe. I kinda wish someone would punch him in his sneering face. But I totally do not get all the Joe hate regarding "playing" Juelia.  I don't think he played anyone, he was just going along with the premise of the show. Just because Jade and Tanner stuck together since day one and Carly and Kirk are still together doesn't mean that if you go on a date with someone you have to be attached to them for the rest of the show.  Maybe Jo did lay it on a little too thick with Juelia but from what I saw she just takes every small morsel and turns it into a marriage proposal lol. When she was telling one of the guys (maybe Jonathan when he was still around) that Joe asked her about Ireland (her daughter) without her bringing her kid up first.  She acted like this meant he was SO into her. I remember him saying so you have a daughter whats her name (Juelia responded) and Joe said that's a pretty name. He was just being polite and making conversation. I've had people in line at a grocery story ask me about my kids and their names. I've had people at work ask me how my kids are, they don't want an invitation to be part of my life they are making small talk. AKA being polite.  Joe OBVIOUSLY came on the show to meet/see Samantha, several people told Juelia he wasn't into her. If she didn't listen, then that's on her. She even said in a talking head that she gave Jonanthan (the crying one, not Tenley's) and Mikey a chance and there wasn't anything there with either of them. Well honey Joe did nothing worse than you did to Jonathan. He gave you a chance, someone he liked more, was infatuated with showed up, you had your chance, he's no longer interested, get on with life. You knew him for what? a day? And everyone's holier than thou, oh he was JUST kissing Juelia last night now he's all over Samantha. Um bunch of hypocrites ALL OF YOU. Tenley came back from a great date with Jonathan and made out with JJ. Like minutes later. Jared was all over Clare, comes back, is rudely dismissive of her and then jumps on Ashley who was running away from in the first place. You can't tell me Jared isn't using Ashley to stay in paradise.  I think the majority of the guys are getting restless and want to "trade up" when someone new comes along. If it was the women's week to hand out the roses NONE of those guys would be having second thoughts about their partners, they would be stuck to them like glue.

 

Not getting all the self righteous indignation over Joe not being interested in Juelia. IMO Juelia is more batshit crazy than Ashley ( the blonde) because when she was talking about her date with Joe she said she's practically falling in love with him (after ONE date honey? and that if they did have a connection she would definitely have to move to be with him. WHOA hold on, you have a CHILD. A two year old little girl who lost her father and is currently being raised by someone else (probably her parents) while you leave her to be on two stupid reality shows. A child needs stability. So you think taking her across the country away from the little stability she does have (and from two sets of grandparents) is a good idea? To be with a man everyone but you can clearly see is not and never was into you? Just wow. Juelia is pathetic and needs to grow up. Get over it. Sorry you feel disrespected, I'm sure Claire felt disrespected by Jared, yet everyone told her to suck it up and get over it.  I don't understand everyone ganging up on Joe. He owes Juelia NOTHING. I feel bad that Samantha was  someone Juelia considers a friend but Joe clearly wants nothing to do with Juelia and is very happy Samantha is there. And so what if they talked to eachother before the show?? I'm sure at least one other pairing there did the same thing (looking at Jade and Tanner) And Jared leading the charge about how Joe owes it to talk to Juelia because he did her wrong. Well Jared, why did you dump Claire right after your date with no explanation (other than she's "old") don't  you think YOU could have handled that better.  I know this show is totally fake but this stuff just makes me mad!

 

Ashley looks drop dead gorgeous in her glasses. Dan is an idiot.

[Padma]

The only three people who seem like they'd be tolerable to spend three days with in "Paradise" are Clare and ...Ashley S (whom I've always liked but is looking both nice and more intelligent in this group) and ... shockingly...JJ who at least is snarky. Everyone else is catty, self-centered and/or boring. Some Paradise!

Sorry for the confusion. No one gave Jorge the date card, but when Joshua came into the bar area with the date card that ended up being Carly's, Jorge was excitedly chanting, "Date card! Date card! Date card!" Later was a scene with Ashley S talking to Jorge about Dan, and Jorge was saying how he sees everything here and Dan is a good person and he's not running around trying to get someone else; if he's just not feeling it, she'll meet someone...or something like that. I don't really remember exactly what Jorge said, but at the time I thought it was perceptive. Then Juelia showed up, and that's why I posted about all the broken-hearted ladies gravitating to Jorge. But, alas, Jorge would definitely be too old for this crowd--he's over 40 for sure.

Oh, thanks. That makes sense. I just saw the new intro and was disappointed that Jorge wasn't a hot young guy. (Why not, show?) But, still nice to "move up" as a character.

[wonald]

I enjoy the stupid Joe drama over the stupid AshleyI and Mistress Sister drama anytime, anyplace. I cannot believe that we were able to get thru one episode without the AshleyI laugh-cry.

[KateeBar]

The hot tub scene with Joe and Samantha completely squicked me out. I never needed that in my life. And Joe, IMO to qualify for an actual dad-bod, you had to have been hot at some point in your life.

As for Juelia, she was literally warned about Joe and chose to ignore it. I think he's awful and seems to enjoy being awful right now, so I feel for her in that regard. But she had the chance to replace him so...poor planning on her part.

And I love Ashley S. She's pretty, funny, and knows exactly how to be kooky and entertaining on TV. While I'm fine with Dan dumping her because well, it's a dumb show not an actual way to truly "connect" with people, I am sorry he's interested in that bag of hair that just showed up. I really hope she's playing the role of dumb blonde. I don't know her from her previous season, so I have no clue.

[itainttippithebird]

I meannnnn, ok, Juelia is a little insufferable, but it's clear that Joe and Samantha just gamed the system to go on vacay together (and it seems tonight's ep will confirm that), so he definitely DID "play" her. It's not like he just didn't feel a connection (eyeroll) after trying it out - he was never interested in anything but finding a weak link who would carry him along. So, yeah, that's gross, even if he hadn't been OOT gross about it on top of that!

But ANYWAY - did y'all notice Ashley I's comment about finally getting kissed and "it looked good" on camera?! I'm assuming she was referencing her terrible kiss with Chris Soules that many have made fun of her for. The thing is, though, that kiss with Jared was SO MUCH WORSE! She literally yelled "OK" into his mouth and it echoed! She interrupted a million times to give a weird, heavy-lidded, "sexy" EVALUATION of it! Oh, Ashley I.

[piewarmer]

I'm not sure what Dan saw that had him thinking Ashley S is unstable.

While Joe has every right to play the game he doesn't exactly come off well when he's already forgotten Juelia's name.

 

Thankfully, I don't live in Joe's brain so I can't say for sure, but I got the impression that he knows perfectly well what her name is. That was just a small, cruel ploy to underscore her unimportance to him.

Edited August 17, 2015 by piewarmer

[wonald]

People editor talking what went behind the scenes on that Joe&Sam date

 

http://www.people.com/people/special/0,,20826806,00.html?xid=socialflow_twitter_peoplemag

[Trace]

Ok I really don't like Joe. I kinda wish someone would punch him in his sneering face. But I totally do not get all the Joe hate regarding "playing" Juelia.  I don't think he played anyone, he was just going along with the premise of the show. Just because Jade and Tanner stuck together since day one and Carly and Kirk are still together doesn't mean that if you go on a date with someone you have to be attached to them for the rest of the show.  Maybe Jo did lay it on a little too thick with Juelia but from what I saw she just takes every small morsel and turns it into a marriage proposal lol. When she was telling one of the guys (maybe Jonathan when he was still around) that Joe asked her about Ireland (her daughter) without her bringing her kid up first.  She acted like this meant he was SO into her. I remember him saying so you have a daughter whats her name (Juelia responded) and Joe said that's a pretty name. He was just being polite and making conversation. I've had people in line at a grocery story ask me about my kids and their names. I've had people at work ask me how my kids are, they don't want an invitation to be part of my life they are making small talk. AKA being polite.  Joe OBVIOUSLY came on the show to meet/see Samantha, several people told Juelia he wasn't into her. If she didn't listen, then that's on her. She even said in a talking head that she gave Jonanthan (the crying one, not Tenley's) and Mikey a chance and there wasn't anything there with either of them. Well honey Joe did nothing worse than you did to Jonathan. He gave you a chance, someone he liked more, was infatuated with showed up, you had your chance, he's no longer interested, get on with life. You knew him for what? a day? And everyone's holier than thou, oh he was JUST kissing Juelia last night now he's all over Samantha. Um bunch of hypocrites ALL OF YOU. Tenley came back from a great date with Jonathan and made out with JJ. Like minutes later. Jared was all over Clare, comes back, is rudely dismissive of her and then jumps on Ashley who was running away from in the first place. You can't tell me Jared isn't using Ashley to stay in paradise.  I think the majority of the guys are getting restless and want to "trade up" when someone new comes along. If it was the women's week to hand out the roses NONE of those guys would be having second thoughts about their partners, they would be stuck to them like glue.

 

Not getting all the self righteous indignation over Joe not being interested in Juelia. IMO Juelia is more batshit crazy than Ashley ( the blonde) because when she was talking about her date with Joe she said she's practically falling in love with him (after ONE date honey? and that if they did have a connection she would definitely have to move to be with him. WHOA hold on, you have a CHILD. A two year old little girl who lost her father and is currently being raised by someone else (probably her parents) while you leave her to be on two stupid reality shows. A child needs stability. So you think taking her across the country away from the little stability she does have (and from two sets of grandparents) is a good idea? To be with a man everyone but you can clearly see is not and never was into you? Just wow. Juelia is pathetic and needs to grow up. Get over it. Sorry you feel disrespected, I'm sure Claire felt disrespected by Jared, yet everyone told her to suck it up and get over it.  I don't understand everyone ganging up on Joe. He owes Juelia NOTHING. I feel bad that Samantha was  someone Juelia considers a friend but Joe clearly wants nothing to do with Juelia and is very happy Samantha is there. And so what if they talked to eachother before the show?? I'm sure at least one other pairing there did the same thing (looking at Jade and Tanner) And Jared leading the charge about how Joe owes it to talk to Juelia because he did her wrong. Well Jared, why did you dump Claire right after your date with no explanation (other than she's "old") don't  you think YOU could have handled that better.  I know this show is totally fake but this stuff just makes me mad!

 

Ashley looks drop dead gorgeous in her glasses. Dan is an idiot.

Hey Joe?  You should really stay east of the rivers if you get my drift. which you probably don't bless your heart

Edited August 17, 2015 by Trace

[FamilyVan]

don't think he played anyone, he was just going along with the premise of the show. Just because Jade and Tanner stuck together since day one and Carly and Kirk are still together doesn't mean that if you go on a date with someone you have to be attached to them for the rest of the show.  Maybe Jo did lay it on a little too thick with Juelia but from what I saw she just takes every small morsel and turns it into a marriage proposal lol.

 

 

No way - he was totally a deceitful scumbag to her.  You can play the game and still not be a DB.  She questioned his intentions, and he gave her a passionate kiss and said "What are my intentions now".  When she said you talked to Samantha before the show he said "Is that what you heard", this guy thinks he has all the slick answers and ways to get out of a direct question - he's a scumbag!  He could have said something like I like you but want to explore options like what Jared said to Claire.  Jared's convo with Clare was awkward and a little ouchie for her but he was not a deceitful scumbag.  The other guys are doing the same thing too, but they are not being huge DB's about it - there IS a difference. 

 

As for Juelia, she was literally warned about Joe and chose to ignore it. I think he's awful and seems to enjoy being awful right now, so I feel for her in that regard. But she had the chance to replace him so...poor planning on her part.

 

 

Yes but this guy is such a dirtbag he got the guys who warned her to RECANT their warnings to her face!  This is taking "playing Juelia" to another level when you can play the girl and also play the people in her life trying to protect her.  That is some A+ douchebaggery right there.

Edited August 17, 2015 by FamilyVan

[Irritable]

I enjoyed that People interview with Kate Coyne.  She's kind of great, and honest, and I loved her assessment of Joe.  Wish she was Chris Harrison's co-host on the aftershow instead of the other woman, whose name I can't remember (tm: Joe).

[OnceSane]

Joe is fugly and an asshole, so why are these two ladies so sprung? He must look amazing IRL or talk mad game. I just don't get it. That being said, Juelia is an idiot for only hearing what she wanted and ignoring the rest. At least she doesn't seem quite as dumb as Megan aka Miss "Aloha, Mexico!".

Is Clare still there, and if so, to whom did she give her rose? I admit I only half pay attention to this show.

[ljenkins782]

But Jue-ellia, here's what it was: You entertained Jonathon to stick around and get a rose from him. You volunteer for the date with Joe because he didn't man up and ask anyone specific.

 

That's an interesting point, actually. For all the talk of "Juelia's the sweetest person ever/single mom widow, etc.", it's not like Joe actually specifically targeted her. It turned out to be a good choice for his motivations since she wasn't that attached to her other options and is apparently quick to fall in love, but he didn't know any of that when he asked if anyone wanted to go horseback riding. 

 

This is in no way a defense of Joe, who I do think went unnecessarily over-the-top. 

 

Juelia has adopted many females' time-honored circular method of inflicting emotional hurt on the person who inflicted the original emotional hurt by asking questions that have no satisfactory answers ie they are meant simply to ratchet up the tension and - she hopes - transform her anger into his guilt.

 

Yeah, that second confrontation with Joe was just an exercise in futility and I'm not sure what she thought she would accomplish. Even if she did succeed in scaring him by threatening to talk to Samantha...what does she get out of that? Less dumped, less used? At most, she gets an utterly insincere apology motivated only by him wanting to keep up the relationship with the woman he dropped her for. Does that even count as an apology, really? 

 

Also, even if Samantha and Juelia are friends (I doubt they're that close, show friendship probably doesn't translate to the real world), I'm not sure that she has a great case against Joe when talking TO Samantha. "Hey, this guy was so eager to meet you that he led me on in order to get a rose so he could stay til you got here..." I have a feeling Samantha would be more flattered by that than righteously angry on Juelia's behalf. 

 

Thankfully, I don't live in Joe's brain so I can't say for sure, but I got the impression that he knows perfectly well what her name is, that was just a small, cruel ploy to underscore her unimportance to him.

 

I thought the same thing. It seems like many of them have a certain schtick they're working super hard and his seems to be stone cold dickhead. That pretend name forgetting seemed perfectly in line with that character. 

 

JJ actually looked kind of cute when he got woke up

 

I laughed so hard at that scene, he was out cold and genuinely seemed to not even know where he was when she woke up. I love those tiny moments of actual reality among all the manipulated, edited stuff. 

 

God help me, but JJ is actually growing on me this time around and he did look cute all sleepy and bewildered. 

 

Jorge the bartender is a real gem, and I hope ABC gives him a little stipend for his appearances.

 

Given the way they're beating the raccoon joke into the ground, I'm guessing we'll be seeing A LOT of Jorge for the remainder of the show. 

 

Speaking of the show beating a dead horse, yes, we remember that Megan was the stupid one on her season. We didn't need another montage of her pretending to be even dumber and giggling at her own ignorance. Please take a lesson from Ashley S. and dial back your "persona" a touch. 

 

I hate Joe, but  who are these people to judge?   Saint Dan, holy protector of women, just dropped Ashley S  because she "projected."  Jared dropped Clare for being old. JJ is desperate for anyone at all to give him a rose. Juelia herself  apparently forgot who Jonathan was the second Joe walked onto the beach.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure why Dan has appointed himself the mediator in everyone else's relationships. Is it a screentime thing or what? 

[wovenloaf]

Ok I really don't like Joe. I kinda wish someone would punch him in his sneering face. But I totally do not get all the Joe hate regarding "playing" Juelia.  I don't think he played anyone, he was just going along with the premise of the show.

 

The main source of my dislike of Joe stems from how creepy he was in the last episode, with the Mikey and Jonathan business Particularly the creepy scolding and creepy "comforting" of Jonathan (I still haven't quite gotten over how uncomfortable that was to watch). I don't think he's gross because my heart hurts for Juelia. I think he's gross because he gets off on manipulating other people, gets handjobs on television, and generally acts like an asshole merely for his own enjoyment. I'm not even particularly miffed about the Juelia incident, and he mostly just made me laugh last night (in a "god I love this nightmare of a show" type of way). I mean, Juan Pablo was and still is my favorite person ever on any of these shows - I'm all about those Wrong Reasons. But Joe is too far for me - he's not a villain in a fun or just stupid way...he's a villain in a "Wow this guy has the potential to wreak serious emotional havoc on the actual people in his life" type of way. 

[backformore]

saber: 2. TPTB played Juelia, and played her from the start. TPTB knew Joe and Samantha were hot for each other, so waited to bring S. on until Juelia was fully invested. This because TPTB loves to demean women. Fleiss makes big bucks on his misogyny-in-prime-time tv shows.  

 

Yes -   I think that there was manipulation behind the scenes.  Joe was on the show because he was told samantha was coming, and all he had to do was convince ONE woman to give him a rose, and he could be around when samantha got there.   I think he was briefed ahead of time which women were  not hooked up yet.   I think Juelia was described as "the one with a kid", because on the date, he said to her , "you have kid, right?"  not knowing if it was a boy or girl.  

When Joe got the date card, he asked 'who wants to go?"  because he knew it was just a temporary thing until samantha showed up  - so it was "who here will give me the time of day, so I can sucker her into giving me the rose I need?"   He didn't CHOOSE Juelia, she volunteered.  

Then, when samantha shows up, she made no effort to get to know ANYONE, she zeroed in on the one guy with whom she had a pre-planned, paid for, island vacation.  

Is Joe an asshole?  YES.  He toyed with her emotions, pretended to like her, let her think there might be some potential for a relationship.  But he did not do it alone.  The producers prompted the deception, supported it, then let him get drunk and then interviewed him, getting to admit to the asshole behavior.   

 

Going on a date with one person, then going on a date with a different person,  doesn't make him an asshole.  It's using one person to got to another, and being willing to stomp on her feelings to get what he wants, that makes him an asshole.   But the producers are assholes for encouraging it, too.

 

People who agree to go on this show might be better off if they thought about it more like "Big Brother" or 'Survivor"    than like "The bachelor."  It's not about finding LOVE, it's about not getting voted off the island . 

[CindyBee]

Joe is fugly and an asshole, so why are these two ladies so sprung? He must look amazing IRL or talk mad game. I just don't get it. That being said, Juelia is an idiot for only hearing what she wanted and ignoring the rest. At least she doesn't seem quite as dumb as Megan aka Miss "Aloha, Mexico!".

Is Clare still there, and if so, to whom did she give her rose? I admit I only half pay attention to this show.

 

 

JJ got Clare's rose.

 

I follow Dana Weiss aka Possessionista and during the broadcast commercial breaks she does some periscopes and Dana said that she's been told that Joe is much better looking in person.  Whether that's true or not, who knows.

[OnceSane]

Thank you!

[backformore]

Dana said that she's been told that Joe is much better looking in person.  Whether that's true or not, who knows.

 

Joe has a sort of "smushed in"  face at certain angles.  In a few of  the photos in the PEOPLE shot, when he's smiling, and his face is like a 3/4 shot - not full forward, not profile, and his dimples show, there is a cuteness there.  But only for a moment.  

[leighdear]

I don't want to gross people out, or start a round of projectile vomiting across the Net, but I thought the Samantha/Joe photo shoot produced some gorgeous black & while stills that they flashed up on the TV screen. Made them both look very attractive!

 

*ducking out* 

Edited August 17, 2015 by leighdear

[wonald]

I watched the ep again and Dan is 32, not 36. Joe is 28 so is not too far away from 32 himself.

[Andromeda]

My favorite part was seeing Carly and Kirk."I'd like the fantasy suite" -- hah!  I loved seeing her so happy. I wouldn't say Kirk is the best-looking guy there (not into gingers), but if she does, awesome!

 

Joe was gross and disgusting. He lies really easily, which should raise huge alarms for anyone paying attention. He downplayed his date with Jueizlyea to Samantha, making it sound like a causal couple of hours, but Sam should have considered whether Jeizleu picked Joe, and if so, that means her friend is into the same guy. That should be worth some confidential girl talk. My hubbie and I kept waiting for Samantha and Jueilya to talk, if they're such close friends. We never did get to see them really dish about Joe.

 

Samantha seems really dim and boring, and based on Joe going on about her looks, her body and her looks and body, clearly that's all he cares about.

 

I just can't with Megan. Too stupid to live. I hope Dan goes out with her, realizes she's a super dim bulb, and goes crawling back to Ashley S. Unless Dan is dim, too, but he seems a little smarter than that. Ashley S. is. What did she do that was so awful? Get up on the wrong side of the bed? Have a slight hangover? Have her period? Really, Dan? But I bet when you're in a funk or anxious, you'd expect your girlfriend to be totally understanding. What a dolt.

 

ETA: I LOVED the Jorge The Bartender part in the credits, and on the show! So very Love Boat, for those of us old enough to remember.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Andromeda

[wovenloaf]

Joe has a sort of "smushed in"  face at certain angles.  In a few of  the photos in the PEOPLE shot, when he's smiling, and his face is like a 3/4 shot - not full forward, not profile, and his dimples show, there is a cuteness there.  But only for a moment.  

I think you're right - when he's at a certain angle and he's smiling, he could be construed as attractive. Straight on though, he has a pretty dead-eyed, derpy look to him. But before I realized how terrible he is, I wasn't "ICK" every time his face was on the screen. Like I am, for instance, when JJ's face is on the screen. 

 

Also, whoever upthread was calling Joe "Uglier Beavis" - ha! Love it. 

Edited August 17, 2015 by wovenloaf

[Fallacy]

The footage of the handjob in the pool was excessive. Also, I think they are all famewhore idiots, so I can't work up too much sympathy for the one date heartbreak of Juella. Go home to your child already.

I don't like any of them. I haven't watched The Bachelor franchise and four years and I now remember why. I'll keep watching this season because I am a completionist, but then I'm done again.

[KR Vermont]

Though I certainly can see Joe's resemblance to a peanut (lol), I haven't been able to shake my opinion that he reminds me of Heat Miser. :p Then again, if Joe were to dress as Planters' Mr. Peanut...

Ashley S looked sharp in those cool glasses she wore while telling Dan what she thought of his desire to be open to other women at paradise.

[Dirtybubble]

I've always thought that Ashley S. was one of the more attractive people on the show.  All the girls there are really pretty but something about her sweet face--IDK maybe the way she does her makeup or hair *shrug* she just always looks pulled together & as a beach lover myself that's difficult to do.  The salt in the ocean, the sand blowing, the humidity ugh it wrecks havoc on a woman's skin and hair.

 

The footage of the handjob in the pool was excessive. Also, I think they are all famewhore idiots, so I can't work up too much sympathy for the one date heartbreak of Juella. Go home to your child already.

Blarf!  I'm so glad I FF thru their date scenes.  I hope someone comes by daily to clean/bleach/throw holy water on the pool and hot tub.  This is why I don't swim in public pools or hot tubs, ya just don't know....

[itainttippithebird]

The worst thing about Megan's "I'm dumb" schtick is she's recycling directly from dumb shit she did last season on The Bachelor! That whole Old Mexico/New Mexico, mispronouncing Spanish words, saying "Aloha, Mexico!" thing is directly culled from her Chris Soules season. So not only is she dumb (or at least very willing to play dumb), she thinks it's CUTE to rehash it, like a toddler who gets a laugh for doing something silly, then repeats it over and over expecting the same reaction.