Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

[funkopop]

You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you.

Sorry all the lightsaber, Force talk reminded me of Monty Python Holy Grail.

[Eyes High]

Adam Driver kept taking me out of the scene. He looked so totally unlike his parents - the shape of his nose, eyes, mouth, head - there isn't a single feature from either of his parents.

That's fair. He doesn't look anything like Leia's parents, either, which compounds the lack of resemblance. At least Daisy Ridley resembles Natalie Portman somewhat.

I will say that it would be hard to cast anyone as a credible relative of Driver. It's not just that Ford and Fisher don't have those features--long face, close-set eyes, black hair (on a white person, at least), large hook nose, etc.--it's that most people don't have that feature combination, let alone Hollywood actors. Hollywood actors usually tend to be generically conventionally good-looking: oval face, slim straight nose, proportionately spaced eyes, etc. Even Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher, who aren't blandly pretty like, say, Hayden Christensen, still fit that basic mold. Adam Driver does not. In the ensemble family drama This Is Where I Leave You, he stuck out like a sore thumb and looked nothing like his supposed siblings.

In short, Adam Driver is one weird-looking dude who has no business playing anyone's relative based on looks alone. Whether his acting talent is enough to offset that is a matter of opinion.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Eyes High

[VCRTracking]

Well I look nothing like either of my parents but while some of my features are from my mother's side I've come to realize in personality and the way I do certain things I'm like my dad.

 

It is funny that while Harrison Ford's sons in real life do look like him neither of his film sons Adam Driver or Shia LeBeouf(INDY 4) do at all!

 

Billie Lourd looks a little like Carrie Fisher but not that much and neither of them look like Carrie's mom Debbie Reynolds.

 

Mark Hamill's son Nathan looks a lot like him.

 

Well yeah...I know it's not lecherous, obviously, but the idea of an old man, a wookie and a young girl just LOOKS iffy. Whatever, moving on.

 

 

After her saying she hadn't seen so much green on Maz Kanatta's Han probably felt sorry for her and a little paternal toward Rey considering his own child was "lost" to him long ago. It does make me hope they reveal right away in Episode VIII that Rey is Luke's daughter because if they're planning to have Luke train her on that secluded island it'll be weird!

Edited December 30, 2015 by VCRTracking

[MisterGlass]

 

I assumed Kylo's hair color was dye.

 

If so it feels like he should have had eyeliner to go with it. 

 

Honestly, Adam Driver is bit reminiscent of Alan Rickman.  Hopefully he will not be stuck in villainous roles.

 

 

So perhaps it's fitting that Chewie seems like he'll be her partner moving forward (judging by the ending).  Han did say that Chewie "kind of liked her."

 

It would be nice for Chewie to be another mentor for her.  He's seen the galaxy and knows the enemy.  And he's got heart.

[Browncoat]

 

Honestly, Adam Driver is bit reminiscent of Alan Rickman.  Hopefully he will not be stuck in villainous roles.

 

 

Nope, nope, nope -- Alan Rickman is way hotter than Adam Driver!  :)

[MrsR]

I don't see Natalie Portman in Daisy Ridley at all.

 

She reminds me of Lena Heady. A non scary Lena Heady.

[Ravenya003]

Jesus, Kylo/Rey fan girls are insane.

 

I tried to explain this type of shipping phenomena to my mother, and it went a little something like this:

 

Mum: They ship them even though he tied her up and tried to mind-rape her?

 

Me: No mum, they ship them BECAUSE he tied her up and tried to mind-rape her.

 

I understand the appeal of a "troubled male soul is redeemed by the pure love of a female character" narrative (heck, it's as old as Beauty and the Beast and as recent as Christian/Anastasia in 50 Shades) and its ubiquitousness in popular culture ensures it's drilled into the consciousness of millions of women across the world from a very early age, but jeez it's exhausting to watch this story play out over and over again in fandom when it's clear the writer/directors are going out of their way to DERIDE it in the way they write their characters. 

 

instead of Portraying tragically flawed/misguided it came off as just fucking silly and laughable.

That part of the story was going for pathos/dark underside and instead it was comically risible. Intent versus actual execution was my point.

 

 

I agree that Kylo is (at the moment) a whiny entitled fuckboy, but there's no way that's not the intent of the film. You don't include a scene in which two Stormtroopers casually back away from him throwing a temper tantrum without deliberately inviting the audience to laugh at him. 

 

He's pathetic and laughable in the same way these wannabe terrorist brats who walk into schools and churches with shotguns are pathetic and laughable -- but simultaneously very, very dangerous. I actually think the film did a great job at introducing a badass new Sith that made us all go "ooh", revealing him to be a whiny brat who didn't seem to pose much of a threat ("urrgh") and then flipping the tables once more when he went ahead with killing his father ("holy shit!") 

 

By the time he's fighting Finn and Rey in the forest he feels like a genuine threat, simply because we don't know what he's capable of anymore. However you want to interpret the way he was pounding on his wounds, it was probably the creepiest thing in the entire movie because it was so weird and unnatural.

 

At the moment, I still think it's too early to pass complete judgment on Kylo as a character (that is as a character, not as a person). We don't know how/why he turned to the Dark Side and we don't know whether the trilogy plans to redeem him, or by what means. There are still too many gaps left to be filled in. I'm torn in the way many others have mentioned: he seems completely irredeemable (WORSE than Vader, because at least Anakin turned out of genuine confusion, gaslighting and an attempt to save his family) whereas Kylo just seems to want the Dark Side because it'll make him look cool - and yet I can't really bring myself to totally give up on the son of Han and Leia (at least not for their sakes). 

 

There are going to be some who don't think he's badass enough, and others who'll insist he's just a poor misunderstood victim, but in this day and age, I admire the way the film has essentially said: "This is what evil really looks like - it's not grand and tragic and imposing like Vader, it's petty and whiny and entitled and pathetic."

 

It's going to be a long 2016.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Ravenya003

[funkopop]

I recently stumbled across Jessica Jones/Kilgrave shippers on Tumblr. It taught me to limit my Tumblr usage.

[kili]

Kylo just seems to want the Dark Side because it'll make him look cool

Kylo also seems to resent his Dad. He mentions it more than once. For instance, when he finds out that Rey sees Han as a father figure, he says that Han will disappoint her. And when Han confronts him he says "Your son is gone. He was weak and foolish like his father, so I destroyed him." (Han should have taken the hint at that point that things were not going to end well for him).

 

So, I suspect that Kylo's turning was partly some emo teenage angst when Han kept letting him down. Kylo decided to start lionizing his grandfather at some point and wanted to be like him instead of his Dad. He specifically says that Han was foolish so does that mean that Han had become driftless in a post-war world where he wasn't a smuggler? Or did Han become too busy to spend time with his kids? Han and Leia were together until Kylo went bad, so a marriage break-up did not create the angst. 

 

Leia doesn't seem to be the problem, but maybe he didn't have time to get around to complaining about her.

 

Although, it would be an interesting twist if she were Snoke. She would have sent Han on a mission to save their son while also working the other side to encourage his death. Have we had any female bad guys in Star Wars (maybe that changeling person who tried to kill Padme?). It's mostly a Smurfette world (one woman per thousands of men), so I'm thinking no. Why would she turn bad though? 

Edited December 30, 2015 by kili

[Joe]

Have we had any female bad guys in Star Wars (maybe that changeling person who tried to kill Padme?). It's mostly a Smurfette world (one woman per thousands of men), so I'm thinking no. Why would she turn bad though? 

If you draw from the comics, books, games, and cartoons, there have been a bunch. Some are even still canon these days. But in the movies, it's all about the men.

[Mars477]

I tried to explain this type of shipping phenomena to my mother, and it went a little something like this:

Mum: They ship them even though he tied her up and tried to mind-rape her?

Me: No mum, they ship them BECAUSE he tied her up and tried to mind-rape her.

I understand the appeal of a "troubled male soul is redeemed by the pure love of a female character" narrative (heck, it's as old as Beauty and the Beast and as recent as Christian/Anastasia in 50 Shades) and its ubiquitousness in popular culture ensures it's drilled into the consciousness of millions of women across the world from a very early age, but jeez it's exhausting to watch this story play out over and over again in fandom when it's clear the writer/directors are going out of their way to DERIDE it in the way they write their characters.

It's insane. I've seen people cite Jaimie Lannister for how Kylo can totally become a really good guy.

[benteen]

I liked that Han having such a big role in this film meant that Chewie would have one as well.

 

You know, I do wonder sometimes if Emo Fanboy Kylo was supposed to be an inside joke on the SW fanbase.

[BW Manilowe]

George Lucas Says He Sold Star Wars to "White Slavers"

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-george-lucas-disney-white-slavers-1201669959/

[HeySandyStrange]

 

At the moment, I still think it's too early to pass complete judgment on Kylo as a character (that is as a character, not as a person). We don't know how/why he turned to the Dark Side and we don't know whether the trilogy plans to redeem him, or by what means. There are still too many gaps left to be filled in.

 

I'm also waiting for the next movies to flesh out Kylo Ren's fall to the dark side before I put him firmly in the irredeemable category, in particular the extant of Snoke's sway/manipulation on it. In the novelization of the movie (which is possibly not canon but based on an earlier draft of the script) Leia admits that she knew that Snoke was lurking on the side lines ever since Kylo was born, waiting to sink his clutches into him. Which is sets up a pretty sick and twisted dynamic between Snoke and Ren. Definitely a very predatory, delusional pseudo-father/son vibe going on there. Plus the massacre at Luke's Jedi academy was left very vague and I'm very curious to get Luke's and Kylo's versions of what happened. 

[Ronin Jackson]

George Lucas Says He Sold Star Wars to "White Slavers"

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/star-wars-george-lucas-disney-white-slavers-1201669959/

 

Some people are ripping on him for this, but if you listen to the whole comment, he's talking about the movies as his "children", and who do you sell children to? I think it's clearly a joke about selling his "children" and not an attempt to compare Disney to white slavers, but it's one of those things that's going to be taken out of context and sensationalized, so clearly not the wisest choice of words. Though something tells me he doesn't care.

[VCRTracking]

Yeah he was clearly joking by his tone and unfortunately out of context and as written it was ripe for people to use for clickbait-y headlines. Keep in mind he did the interview before he saw the movie and he reportedly liked it.

 

I don't think Kylo turning was Han's fault. I think he did the best he could and was no better than Rocky Balboa as a dad. Rocky for the past three movies has been estranged from his son. They reconcile at the end of one movie but are on the outs the next and it's usually for story purposes. Rocky isn't perfect but he's still a very loving dad. The estrangement is  always is because Rocky Jr. feels that he's in his famous dad's shadow. Now granted he never went to the extreme as Kylo Ren but I'm sure Ben Solo growing up felt the same way. His dad, mom and uncle are these heroes who saved the galaxy. How could you live up to that?

Edited December 31, 2015 by VCRTracking

[Bats27]

I actually really liked Kylo.  He was interesting, menacing, and they even got some good comedy out of him at times,  And I love that they're almost doing a bit of meta-commentary with him.  People expected them to just try and do "Vader 2.0."  Well not only are they not doing that, they're almost doing a commentary in-film about how that's not really possible. 

 

As for the resemblance thing, I can actually buy Adam Driver being Harrison Ford's son.  They're faces look similar enough.  And besides, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher really don't look that much alike, yet they were playing twins.

[jennifer6973]

Something I just realized thanks to Anthony Daniels tweeting:  C3PO finally has shown SOME self awareness re:  Han and Leia.  He gets a clue quicker.

[BW Manilowe]

Now, probably not unexpectedly, George Lucas is backpedaling on the "white slavers" comment.

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/george-lucas-rolls-back-complaints-that-star-wars-successors-are-white-slavers-1201670406/

[VCRTracking]

Christ, is it that difficult for people to understand that the person who sells their "children" to slavers is also bad if not worse, therefore Lucas is criticizing himself in the analogy, not Disney? Also some of the same people outraged are probably the ones who said without irony that the prequels "raped" their childhood, even though there are actual children in the world who've been raped and I'm sure it didn't feel the same as being disappointed by a movie!

Edited December 31, 2015 by VCRTracking

[SimoneS]

I saw George Lucas' interview. It is all sour grapes. He is nothing, but a bitter arrogant hypercritic who is unhappy because so many people love this new movie (despite the whining from peanut gallery) and hated his three prequels. There was nothing stopping him from creating this movie himself with his own vision, but instead he sold the Star Wars rights to Disney and gave up creative control of the franchise. Lucas damn sure didn't need the money so more likely he was scared of more criticism and having more creative flops.

 

ETA: And to use the term, "white slavers" too. If only enslaved Africans were paid the estimated $4 billion that Lucas got for Star Wars. This is a man with an African American wife and one child of color. Yikes. My sympathies to them.

Edited December 31, 2015 by SimoneS

[VCRTracking]

He did the interview before he saw the movie and it became a huge hit critically and financially. There was a preview clip from this show online a month ago. When he did see it he said he liked it.

 

Also it seems people today don't know that "white slavers" is an old term that refers to people who enslave white people, which is now called human trafficking.

 

Websters Definition: "A procurer of or trafficker in white slaves."

 

There was nothing stopping him from creating this movie himself with his own vision, but instead he sold the Star Wars rights to Disney and gave up creative control of the franchise. Lucas damn sure didn't need the money so more likely he was scared of more criticism and having more creative flops.

 

 

If you did see the same interview he said it was that he was that the new trilogy was going to take 10 years of his life and he was 70 and he didn't know he was going to make it 80 and he wanted to move on to other things.

Edited December 31, 2015 by VCRTracking

[ybrik]

Have spent the last few days listening to podcast reviews and reading online reviews movie. There were a couple of points that I have seen that intrigued me.

 

I listened to the WeHateMovies podcast and one of the points they brought up was in response to the criticism of Leia and Chewy not hugging or comforting each other when he gets back from the Starkiller mission. One of the commentators basically said that Chewy just walking by Leia makes sense in that Chewy can't face Leia after Han dies. He has too much guilt for not being able to help/save Han to be able to face her. You then see Chewy basically morning alone. I hadn't thought of that but it does make sense for both Chewy and Leia. They don't know how to help/comfort the other with this loss.

 

Another podcast had critiqued that the story was filled with too many coincidences. They brought up the whole Poe/BB8's mission being on the same planet that Rey was on. They tried to say that it was comparable to the beginning of ANH where the droids end up with Luke but they then said it  wasn't as bad since Leia was trying to get to Obi-Wan who was looking over Luke. It did make me think if this wasn't exactly the same. Max Von Sydow's character just happens to have the key to finding Luke Skywalker and just happens to be on the same planet to a girl who is force sensitive and has some connection to Luke. So could Max's character have been there specifically because of Rey? Of course it could just be a coincidence.

 

Also another thing I had heard was why R2 turned on when he did. There were two running theories that I found interesting. One was that he didn't turn on till Rey arrived. The other was that we see Leia could feel when Han dies so Luke would have probably felt it as well. So Luke somehow through the Force was able to connect to R2 and get him to turn back on. As weird as that sounded I did wonder if maybe that scene during Rey's Force vision with Luke putting his metal hand on R2 had some significance to it. Was he doing some kind of mental bond with R2 so that when the time arose R2 could give them the clue to find him? Crazy thought I know but the thought just came to mind.

 

Haven't had a problem with the Starkiller being a new Death Star as it's been less than 40 years since the first one was built in ANH and 30 since the one in RTOJ. Being able to destroy a planet does seem like the ultimate weapon so it has been become this universe's nuclear weapon. They are just trying to find ways to refine it and make it more explosive. They are making some adjustments. The original had an open trench that small crafts could fly, the second had an enclosed narrow shaft and this one had a trench that was closed and was only opened with ground troops blowing a hole in it. Also not bothered by the First Order supposedly being a copy of the Empire. The First Order is like Kylo Ren in that they are basically children trying to emulate the Empire. I noticed on the base that most of the officers look young. Like most of them were either not alive during the Empire or just little kids. So either they were born in families loyal to the Empire or were basically like neo-Nazis. And the stormtroopers are basically like any third world nation that has children armies.

 

Really like the competitiveness between Hux and Ren. I wonder if this will continue into future movies. I do think Snoke is trying to pit one against the other. Regarding the suggestion of Snoke being a woman, I could see that. If it isn't a woman I do hope there is still someone behind the hologram and that Snoke isn't just what we see. I have seen the theory about him being Darth Pleigus which is something that could work really well or really suck.

[VCRTracking]

I love the rivalry between Hux and Ren too.

Edited January 1, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Browncoat]

They're like the Snow Miser and Heat Miser of the First Order.

[anna0852]

I can't get behind Supreme Leader Snoke as a name.

 

I'm just going to call him Darth Gollum.

[TVSpectator]

I can't get behind Supreme Leader Snoke as a name.

 

I'm just going to call him Darth Gollum.

 

Snoke did look a lot like a giant Gollum!

[Nidratime]

I am fine whatever they decide about Rey's parentage, but if she is Luke's child, I hope that it turns out that he did not know about her. If she is a Skywalker, I hope that we find out that Leia sensed it otherwise it would not be believable.

 

 

That's immediately what I thought, that Luke was unaware he even had a child. It's possible that he had a fling or even love affair with someone who had little political power or status and, therefore, couldn't set them up in some safe place. So, the child was left with someone or in some place dicey.

 

*Or* Rey's mother could be a female Han Solo type, i.e., a strong, adventurous woman who wasn't the mother type and left her daughter with someone she *thought* would take care of her, and Luke never knew.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Nidratime

[Zuleikha]

I rewatched it today, and I thought it was even better on second viewing. I feel that most of the flaws are the result of too much worldbuilding being done in supplementary materials and not enough in the actual movie. The first time I watched, I didn't know any of the supplementary information and I did get distracted by being confused. But this time--thanks to many of you all--I wasn't confused about the worldbuilding, so I also wasn't as distracted.

 

I read that there was a subplot with Leia trying to get the New Republic to officially support the Resistance, so I suspect a lot of the exposition was cut with those scenes. I think cutting that subplot was a good call for pacing, but it's too bad the scrawl didn't include more of the facts.

 

Max Von Sydow's character just happens to have the key to finding Luke Skywalker and just happens to be on the same planet to a girl who is force sensitive and has some connection to Luke. So could Max's character have been there specifically because of Rey? Of course it could just be a coincidence.

I think you're right. What I read is that again, in supplementary materials, Max's character (Lor San Tekka) is explained as a quasi-religious figure who follows the Force. He's not Force Sensitive himself, but he studies about it and respects it. I'm not sure if it's a formal religion or something akin, but the whole village is part of this (which actually did make me feel better about the massacre). So I suspect that there's something about Jakku that explains why both Lor San Tekka and Rey were there.

 

I also feel like the complaints that the movie is too similar to A New Hope and that Rey is too competent are both unfair. The structure of The Force Awakens does echo the structure of A New Hope, but the actual characters and events were very different. Luke starts his quest under the explicit guidance of an experienced mentor figure. Finn and Rey are a lost boy and a lost girl, who find each other. They have to figure things out on their own. Even when Han enters the picture, he's not a mentor figure the same way that Obi-Wan does. He's not part of their quest; he doesn't have answers; and he doesn't know the Force. He just helps move them a little bit further down their path.

 

And the energy between Rey and Kylo Ren is obviously so different than between Luke and Darth Vader. 

[nobodyyoucare]

 

Also it seems people today don't know that "white slavers" is an old term that refers to people who enslave white people, which is now called human trafficking.

Originally it refereed to the  Ottoman slave trade later on it was changed to sexual slavery of young girls that were kidnapped then it was changed to human trafficking.

[Perfect Xero]

Yeah he was clearly joking by his tone and unfortunately out of context and as written it was ripe for people to use for clickbait-y headlines. Keep in mind he did the interview before he saw the movie and he reportedly liked it.

 

I don't think Kylo turning was Han's fault. I think he did the best he could and was no better than Rocky Balboa as a dad. Rocky for the past three movies has been estranged from his son. They reconcile at the end of one movie but are on the outs the next and it's usually for story purposes. Rocky isn't perfect but he's still a very loving dad. The estrangement is  always is because Rocky Jr. feels that he's in his famous dad's shadow. Now granted he never went to the extreme as Kylo Ren but I'm sure Ben Solo growing up felt the same way. His dad, mom and uncle are these heroes who saved the galaxy. How could you live up to that?

 

My personal take is that Kylo resents Han, not for being a hero, but because Han isn't a powerful force sensitive. I think that Ben, named after a great Jedi Knight, grandson of the "chosen one", Nephew of the most powerful Jedi ever, son of a great hero who is believed to have similar potential in the force to Luke grew up thinking that he was going to be a similarly powerful Jedi, then he went to start his training and realized that he wasn't going to be the most amazing Jedi who ever lived. So he looked for someone to blame and settled on his non-force sensitive father as an easy scapegoat to explain why he isn't as strong in the force as he thinks he should be.

[Nidratime]

My personal take is that Kylo resents Han, not for being a hero, but because Han isn't a powerful force sensitive. I think that Ben, named after a great Jedi Knight, grandson of the "chosen one", Nephew of the most powerful Jedi ever, son of a great hero who is believed to have similar potential in the force to Luke grew up thinking that he was going to be a similarly powerful Jedi, then he went to start his training and realized that he wasn't going to be the most amazing Jedi who ever lived. So he looked for someone to blame and settled on his non-force sensitive father as an easy scapegoat to explain why he isn't as strong in the force as he thinks he should be.

 

 

If your take on the story is so, I would guess that Rey is not the daughter of the Solo's or Ben's sister because why wouldn't she "suffer" from similar deficiencies? And yet, she seems innately -- with less or no training -- stronger than Kylo Ren which leads me to believe her connection to the force is through others who are also stronger with it.

[Johnny Dollar]

Saw it yesterday. Great movie, but Adam Driver was all wrong as the bad guy. He rushes through his lines, and sounds like some stoner when he's wearing the mask.

[caracas1914]

How old is Kylo Ren?

If Luke was training him and then disappeared, it couldn't have been more than 10 or 15 years I would imagine. So it's odd that Rey thought Luke Skywalker " was just a myth" while clearly remembering Han Solo as both a smuggler and general. At the least wouldn't Luke be remembered as a war hero?

I get that she lived in the galactic outback but still...

Edited January 1, 2016 by caracas1914

[Perfect Xero]

Did anyone else find it just a little bit weird when Han was proposing that this teenage girl join his two man (ish) crew? Han's a stand up guy of course but it was just a little...hands off, grandpa.

 

Han made the exact same offer to Luke in A New Hope.

[VCRTracking]

Plus it's Harrison Ford, you know he's not a perv.  Yes Calista Flockhart is twenty years younger than him but she was already in her late 30s when they got together, not a girl in her early 20s. Now if Han had been played by Jack Nicholson, THAT would have been creepy!

 

Saw it yesterday. Great movie, but Adam Driver was all wrong as the bad guy. He rushes through his lines, and sounds like some stoner when he's wearing the mask.

 

I thought he was great in the moment where he kills Han. Also when he confronts Rey and Finn and says "We're not done here!" It shows how petty he is that he's taking time to kill them because he hates both of them so much, Rey for being strong with the Force and resisting him and Finn for being a traitor to a cause he's so devoted to he betrayed his whole family for it.

Edited January 1, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Perfect Xero]

Also, my biggest disappointment with this movie is that Leia, apparently, never became a Jedi Knight, I've been wanting to see her as a live action Jedi since RotJ and thought that the "strong in my family" teaser trailer was implying that we'd see her as a Jedi in this one.

[Ravenya003]

It's insane. I've seen people cite Jaimie Lannister for how Kylo can totally become a really good guy.

 

So far my favourite bit of justification for the ship is that Kylo never actually hurt her when he mind-raped her. And when someone pointed out that later on in the film he throws her six feet into the air and against a tree, the response was: "but that was self-defence!" 

 

If this trilogy follows the familiar beats and patterns of its predecessors, I can't WAIT to see how they'll defend Kylo lopping off Rey's arm in the next movie.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Ravenya003

[tenativelyyours]

 

 

If this trilogy follows the familiar beats and patterns of its predecessors, I can't WAIT to see how they'll defend Kylo lopping off Rey's arm in the next movie.

 

 

'If this trilogy follows the familiar beats and patterns of its predecessors, what I can't WAIT to see is the long lingering kiss between Finn and Poe.

Edited January 1, 2016 by tenativelyyours

[thuganomics85]

 

And when someone pointed out that later on in the film he throws her six feet into the air and against a tree, the response was: "but that was self-defence!"

 

Of course, all that needs to be pointing out then was that Rey and Finn were actually trying to escape at that time, and it was Kylo who decided to go after them.  It's not like they tried to sneak attack him or something.  Kind of hard to play the self-defense card when you are the pursuer.

 

Kidding, of course.  I know that won't change any minds.  There are still those who claim Loki trying to destroy Earth in The Avengers was a good thing.

Edited January 2, 2016 by thuganomics85

[Spartan Girl]

I don't get the Kylo Ren fan base either, and I sure as hell don't get the shipping for him and Rey. Even if they don't turn out to be related -- and let's face it, they probably are -- it's still gross beyond all reason. Even the Beast from Beauty and the Beast didn't try to mind rape Belle, and he didn't kill anybody. Certainly not HIS OWN FATHER.

[Zuleikha]

I didn't get Reylo until I read this article on Reylo as an instance of trash shipping. Then I mentally de-aged myself back to college and realized I would totally have been a Kylo Ren fan and probably a one-sided Reylo shipper. Kylo Ren was my fictional catnip at that age. Sure, he killed his father, but he CRIED when he did it! He regretted it immediately, which caused him to be shot by Chewie and SUFFER. He pounded his wound in what could be interpreted as an act of self-hatred. He was pulled towards redemption but because of his own flaws completely, and potentially irrevocably, failed at it. Isn't that just TRAGIC? (Fortunately, this was a fiction thing... I did not have any interest in real life jerks, no matter how tragic their lives)

 

I also would have loved/been fascinated by Kylo Ren's attraction to and interest in Rey. I don't think I would have wanted Rey to return the interest, but I shipped Spike/Buffy and Lilah/Wesley back in the day because that twisted push/pull was magnetic on screen. So I may have. I'm so much older now and so much more interested in watching healthy relationships that it's hard to remember when I loved the dysfunctional ones. 

[SeanC]

I saw it a third time tonight (I compiled my complete ranking of the 36 films from 2015 that I've watched so far, of which TFA currently ranks in 10th position -- yet I never felt the need to see any of the nine films I rank ahead of it more than once or twice in cinema; I could write a whole different post about to what degree watchability should be balanced with assessment of the underlying narrative, etc.).

 

On Rey's origins, this is the first time I noticed that Rey's initial line to BB8 on being told that his background is classified is "Oh yeah, me too. Big secret.", which I imagine is a knowing reference to the fan speculation being invited over her. Depending on what we learn in subsequent films about who she is and who knows/suspects it and when, it will be interesting to see how various characters' reactions in this movie will seem in retrospect. Because there's multiple moments from different characters that hint they know more than they say onscreen; Kylo Ren's initial furious reaction on being told that Finn and BB8 were accompanied by a girl, for instance, seems oddly pointed; and, of course, Maz; but also, and this is never discussed, why is Rey the one they send to go find Luke?

 

Parts of this movie reminded me of something that I idly wondered about back when I saw ROTS for the first time:  what is the legal status of droids, precisely?  I was first wondering about C3PO's memory being casually ordered erased at the end of the prequels; the droids have "owners" who they usually address as "master", as BB8 refers to Poe here; but all of them seem pretty clearly sentient to me.  If this was Star Trek I would expect there to be some ethical questions about ownership of these things.

Edited January 2, 2016 by SeanC

[Joe]

Parts of this movie reminded me of something that I idly wondered about back when I saw ROTS for the first time:  what is the legal status of droids, precisely?  I was first wondering about C3PO's memory being casually ordered erased at the end of the prequels; the droids have "owners" who they usually address as "master", as BB8 refers to Poe here; but all of them seem pretty clearly sentient to me.  If this was Star Trek I would expect there to be some ethical questions about ownership of these things.

Droids certainly seem sentient, though focussed on one particular thing, whatever that is. And yes, they mostly refer to people as master or mistress, even those who don't actually own them. It seems to be one of those things that hasn't been thought through, and there's no answer.

[stealinghome]

Late to the party, as I just saw the movie, but I thought it was good. Not great, but good, and very entertaining. Very glad I stayed unspoiled, as it made the movie that much more fun!

 

The good: Rey and Kylo Ren's final lightsaber duel was excellent, and overall the action was solid (wish there had been about 10% less of it though).

 

Daisy Ridley and BB-8 were clearly the breakout stars of the film. What a great performance by Ridley.

 

Rey and Finn's friendship was adorable.

 

Ford and Fisher were still instantly, utterly believable as a(n estranged) couple, decades later.

 

The Falcon reveal (though it's hard to believe Han would ever have let the Falcon get away from him!).

 

There's a difference between being unoriginal and being an homage. I know others disagree, but I felt this movie did a good job of being an homage while crafting enough of its own story to effectively reboot the Star Wars universe. It was the ultimate transitional movie, but it did that job well enough, and now the sequels can do their own thing more.

 

That last shot of Luke made me want more, NOW.

 

The meh: Harrison Ford was really good in some scenes, but totally, 500% mailing it in in others.

 

John Boyega oozes charm and charisma, but Finn as a character ran out of steam like halfway through the film. Also the bromance with Poe seemed a bit forced.

 

Too many action setpieces, not enough quiet character moments. When the movie DID slow down, all of the characters had some lovely moments together. I wanted more of those.

 

A little too slapstick, with "cute" dialogue, at times. Sometimes the humor was really good--BB-8 giving a thumbs up with the lighter, Han's sanitation worker rant, the two stormtroopers who turned and walked away when Kylo Ren was having a tantrum--but at times it was overplayed. Those times often involved Finn and/or Han.

 

The bad: I refuse to believe Leia and Han could have produced a son as whiny as Kylo Ren. Talk about an emo brat. Also, Adam Driver looks zero like either Ford or Fisher, it was actually distracting to me.

 

The geopolitics make zero sense but are really interesting--explain it, people! The transition from 30 years ago to now was also pretty patchy, too (as others have said, Han falling so low again was not particularly believable). Not sure if either will really be explained though.

 

The stakes felt low at the end because there was too much crammed into the movie. Han's death wasn't as resonant as it ought to have been. I agree that they should have ditched the planet-destroying planet and just let it be a "low-stakes but high emotion" climax.

 

I simply cannot imagine them not redeeming Hans and Leia's son even if it is like Vader, just before he dies. There is simply too much compelling drama to pass up, but we'll see.

I think Ren goes out just like Vader--redeems himself right at the end, sacrificing himself to save others. Because I don't see how he can be redeemed otherwise, but like you I don't see them NOT redeeming Han and Leia's son.

 

Also explains what appears to be an age different between Rey and Kylo. If she was young, he might not recognize her now.

He DID seem to know something when he said "What. Girl?" though, when he first hears about her.

 

I agree that Kylo is (at the moment) a whiny entitled fuckboy, but there's no way that's not the intent of the film. You don't include a scene in which two Stormtroopers casually back away from him throwing a temper tantrum without deliberately inviting the audience to laugh at him.

Agreed. I thought the movie was quite clear that he was a whiny, pathetic five-year-old throwing tantrums.

Edited January 2, 2016 by stealinghome

[Mars477]

Stealinghome, the geopolitics are basically "New Republic is too war weary to continue fighting the war against imperial remnants, so instead they reluctantly support a homegrown insurgency to do their fighting for them."

So, the NR is the US/Europe/Sunni "coalition", the Resistance fighters are analogous to the Kurds, and the First Order is ISIS.

Switching topics here, but every time someone says that "Rey friendzoned Finn" I want to punch something.

[VCRTracking]

I don't get that.  Is it just because she just hugged him instead of kissing him when he came to rescue her?  She never said "We should just be friends" and she was crying over his injured body. Then later tells him "We'll see each other again" and kisses his comatose body. What kind of friendzone is that?

[Ravenya003]

Depending on what we learn in subsequent films about who she is and who knows/suspects it and when, it will be interesting to see how various characters' reactions in this movie will seem in retrospect. Because there's multiple moments from different characters that hint they know more than they say onscreen; Kylo Ren's initial furious reaction on being told that Finn and BB8 were accompanied by a girl, for instance, seems oddly pointed; and, of course, Maz; but also, and this is never discussed, why is Rey the one they send to go find Luke?

 

I saw it for the second time today, and I also noticed that after Rey impresses Han by "bypassing the compressor" (or whatever) he gives her a long, strange look - one that the film gives her time to react to after he walks off without a word (she blinks with a "what was that about?" expression on her face). Later at Maz's place, Rey takes off after Finn and Maz turns to Han, asking: "who is that girl?" Interestingly, the scene cuts at this point and we don't get Han's answer to her question - but moments later Maz is trying to give her Luke's lightsabre.

 

So what the heck did Han tell her?

 

The recently-leaked script also has some tidbits;

namely that Luke definitely knows who she is when she turns up on his island. 

(Putting it under spoilers just in case).

 

Switching topics here, but every time someone says that "Rey friendzoned Finn" I want to punch something.

 

 

Ditto. I'm dreading the Ron the Death Eater treatment he's going to get when characters start getting paired up in a way the shippers don't like. (Because seriously, there was NOTHING platonic about the hug she gives him on the Starkiller Base). I honestly don't think I would care about people shipping Rey/Kylo if I didn't KNOW they're going to spend the next year and a half convincing themselves it's actually going to happen and then going berserk when it inevitably doesn't.

 

I was there for the great Zutara meltdown of '08, another non-existent pairing which had no basis in canon, but which was built on the exact same dynamic that people are already grafting to Rey/Kylo. I just ... urgh. By all means ship whatever you want, but the ripples of this whole "my pairing MUST hook up or this entire project is a write-off" mentality ruins so many people's enjoyment of a story.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Ravenya003

[CofCinci]

I wonder if Ren and Rey will switch sides?

[Mars477]

I wonder if Ren and Rey will switch sides?

We don't need another male Skywalker hero. Never mind some asshole who killed his own father and wonders why he can't be evil enough.

ESPECIALLY at the expense of an interesting heroine.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Mars477