S02.E04: Down Will Come

[WaltersHair]

I swear to god, if they have one more dive bar scene with the existential  woman singer strumming a few notes every 10 seconds, like a Saturday Night Live parody, I'm gonna Elvis my flat screen.

 

 

When Ray asked Frank what happened to Stan, I started laughing because of all the hilarious "Who the fuck is Stan?" posts from last week.

 

 

And right after Ray asks who Stan is ...cue a dramatic pause...they turn and listen to the bad singer. I almost tuned out after that.

Edited July 13, 2015 by WaltersHair

[Ellaria]

Taylor Kitsch is doing an awesome job in the role and I buy into his angst and am ok with him questioning this part of his life.

 

Of the four leads, his material has been the weakest. I agree that he is doing an excellent job in this role. I wish it was a little less "angsty" but perhaps now, after the shoot-out, we will see him more of him dealing with life as a cop. 

 

 

Well, that shoot-out was intense.  Every time I thought the worst of it was over, it just kept piling on and on.  Not only did most of the cops get it (including W. Earl Brown's character), but even those protesters got caught in the crossfire (it sure looked like the main suspect was even gunning some on purpose.)  A bit convenient that, of course, the leads all pull through, but I have to think there will be fall-out.  I do suspect that this was all cooked up by the mayor and some of the cops (like Lieutenant James Frain), and their intention was to have them all die even, but I can see them somehow finding a way to make it look like the three of them screwed up, and basically be scapegoats.  I'm honestly curious to see how this plays out.

 

Yes, I believe that our three cops will be the scapegoats in the massive clusterf*** shoot-out. And it certainly seems like Mayor Chessani and the Lt. (James Frain) set them up. Can't imagine that they envisioned it going down exactly as it did, however: Paul, Ani and Ray surviving with 5-6 other cops plus civilians dying. Going forward, the official focus will be on the deaths and mayhem and the Caspere murder will quietly be explained away. My only issue with this scenario is the bad guy "cartoony-ness" of Chessani. He is so over-the-top with his snarling and guzzling that his "be careful out there" comment rang with insincerity. Does Chessani = last year's lawnmower man as the obvious villain?

Edited July 13, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[shapeshifter]

Honestly, I don't have a problem with Vaughn's acting at all - he has 100%, absolutely, some of the worst dialogue I have ever heard in my life. There was one line he said last night that actually made me laugh out loud. It's terrible, and even worse, it's boring...

It just finally occurred to me that the reason this kind of monologue worked for Rust/MMc was because he had Marty/Woody to call him on it, to actually ask him what the hell he was talking about and to tell him to "stop saying all that crazy shit." VV just has a listless wife waiting in the wings for him to finish.

...Season 1 was mixing up narrative timelines in a way that enriched that storyline. Season 2 is trying to create interest by the quantity ( not necessarily quality) of characters...

--which suggests that Nic P is the victim of his own success, meaning that the network execs probably gave him carte blanche to spend on actors. Sometimes less is more. And he could still "regroup" by killing off a main cast member in a way that would be dramatically effective. Unfortunately, that would mean killing off one of the most effective characters (Ray or Ani), which I think he has the sense not to do. Edited July 13, 2015 by shapeshifter

[jcin617]

Although it begs the age old question of who brings a knife to a gun fight?

My corollary to that question this episode was "Who leaves Taylor Kitsch in bed to go watch TV?"

[Ottis]

I still think the Achilles heal of this show is that none of the three main characters bring anything new to solving the case. Unlike last year's Mathew M character, who seemed to "get" the killer and brought the weird philosophy stuff to the table from the get go, these three are straight up cops with baggage, a la The Wire. So they are learning what is going on at the same time as we the viewers are, and it is far less interesting (and far less emotional).

 

The tempo certainly picked up tonight, and I thought Vince Vaughn was better too. He hasn't been bothering me with is acting anyway. Maybe because I have never watched all those comedies he was in. I think he doing fine in the roll of a gangster.

 

 

I still don't see it. Why is everyone so afraid of him? Apparently he has a reputation from the past. It would be nice to learn more about it. He doesn't come across as particularly menacing. In fact, I suspect he has more in common with Paul (closet gay) than anyone else on the show.

 

What's with all the transition shots of highways and streets? Symbolic of the paths available to the characters?

[susannot]

I fell asleep and missed the whole gun fight, but from the comments here don't think I'll re-watch. One thing--how did they zero in on the head bad guy as the main suspect in Caspere's murder?

[Bannon]

I fell asleep and missed the whole gun fight, but from the comments here don't think I'll re-watch. One thing--how did they zero in on the head bad guy as the main suspect in Caspere's murder?

They found some of Caspere's property (an expensive watch) in a pawn shop, and identified the seller as a gang member/head bad guy.

[Crim]

The first part of the episode was ghastly. I wasn't bothered by VV, but now I see him as too flat, same line readings in every scene. And I can follow the story lines just fine, but I do not need to see every person Frank visits in his quest for financial salvation if the scenes start to play out pretty much the same. Also boring, everything about TK's character.

 

I liked Ani's scene with her boss. It wasn't unexpected, but there wasn't a prolonged buildup to it; it didn't overstay its welcome; there was some fun writing in it, and it worked well to establish Ani's character. Why can't the show do this for Paul? It's like different writers and editors are working on those 2.

 

Generally though, I thought the dialogue was even more over the top than before. It was never this bad in season 1. Never. For me it's not even that someone called Rust on it, or asked questions, because I thought Rust made sense most of the time (judging by this season, it's likelier and likelier that this was due to so much s1 material being lifted from someone else's writing). It's that this is now how everyone talks at times. For example, Ani talking to her sister, wtf. W.T.F!

 

The shootout scene is this season's WOW!Scene, but I remember the 6-min Tracking Shot being on all sites, even those that don't write much about television. With the awful dialogue and meandering plot, the show could use something huge like that.

[Milburn Stone]

I have a lot of trouble following the case and the thread of the investigation, it's like I need a recap or to rewatch the series again (which won't ever happen).

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Here's what I got out of the episode--you tell me if I got everything I should have:

 

1. Vince Vaughan is leaning on people for money and will open up a club. 2. The mayor and chief of police knowingly sent Colin Farrell, Rachel McAdams and Taylor Kitsch into an ambush for the purpose of getting them killed and out of the way.

 

As for the rest, the episode put me to sleep--literally. Portions happened during which I later realized I was unconscious. I do remember McAdams' father showing up.

 

I haven't felt this "outside" a show that I kept watching since John from Cincinnati. It's like, I can't stop watching it--but it's just sort of happening before my eyes as I sit there in a stupor, since I feel I'm getting at most 5% of it.

[teddysmom]

And right after Ray asks who Stan is ...cue a dramatic pause...they turn and listen to the bad singer. I almost tuned out after that.

 

I have to agree, it's almost getting to the point of parody. Too bad SNL isn't on right now. I can see a skit where every crucial scene the singer turns up. Ani Ray and Paul are standing in the street after the shoot out, the singer is there on her stool next to the bus. Frank and his wife are arguing about him getting back into crime and the IVF, the singer is there.  But she also has to be wearing a "Who the Fuck is Stan?" teeshirt. 

 

So the cops were going to raid that building by a factory because they knew the suspected killer was there, is that correct?  And of course somebody tipped them off and all hell broke loose.    It did remind me of that North Hollywood shoot out of a few years back.  Where the shit just keeps coming til everybody is dead or out of bullets. 

 

I really liked this episode but then I saw the preview for Episode 5.  

It appears there's a time jump and they realize they didn't get the right guy.  So is Pizzolato just repeating Season 1? 

[susannot]

Glad I'm not the only one who fell into a stupor of unconsciousness while watching. In my defense,I get up really early and even a 9:00 show is too late for me.

[freebie]

 

 

Honestly, I don't have a problem with Vaughn's acting at all - he has 100%, absolutely, some of the worst dialogue I have ever heard in my life. There was one line he said last night that actually made me laugh out loud. It's terrible, and even worse, it's boring. His character is just mind-numbingly boring. And his wife is even worse.

Paul (seriously, I just learned his name on this board) has a cliched story that I can't even sort of take seriously.

 

Yes on both counts. For me, this last episode in particular was just ridiculous in terms of the lines Vaughn had to deliver. At least once in a while he gets to be quietly menacing (like in the bakery scene), but mostly I just get the feeling that he's on take 17 and really, really hoping he nailed it that time.

 

As for Paul, while I think Kitsch is selling the angst, there better be more to it than what we've seen. I'm curious about the few days in the valley his Army buddy alluded to in a prior episode. It sounded like it was a good time, not a bad one, so I'm not really sure what to think they got up to in Afghanistan. What's the over/under on his girlfriend losing the baby?

[paigow]

Although it begs the age old question of who brings a knife to a gun fight?

This guy has a racist answer......

[blixie]

 

I'm not a viewer comparing this season to last season because it's clear this season was intended to be its own incarnation.

 

Really, I feel exactly the opposite, that this season is trying very hard  to "re-create" the hallmarks of S1 right down to this episode attempting to be EPIC like the single take episode was last year, with a bunch of crazy shit going down, and no knowing where the show will go next. It's so calculated, the music, the mood, the sexualized violence. I mean I'm still one of this season's fans, but still nothing about this season feels fresh or different in terms of architecture.

[DarkRaichu]

Although it begs the age old question of who brings a knife to a gun fight?

Ani and NPH from Banshee ;)  

 

Although when you are out of ammo (not everyone can shoot forever a la Rambo), it is better to have a knife than not :)

[Matt K]

I honestly thought the gun fight was poorly done.  The protester were milling around after the gun firing van crashed into the bus was pretty unrealistic.  Add to that the cops firing into the empty window, and them just sauntering up to the building.  Plus the gang didn't ever seem to run out of bullets despite never reloading.  It seemed to me to be poorly written and poorly directed.  

 

Not really enjoying the rest of the episode as well.  The dialogue was bad as usual and everyone is talking but we never really get anything concrete.  Plus Adam's character not realizing that she really pissed off her ex seemed dumb as well.

 

I think next episode needs some serious push towards the mystery or I might just be out.  On the other hand, Fargo should be starting up soonish.

[Constantinople]

I tend to agree the shootout was a set-up.  Before it started, I thought one of the cops asked why don't they just wait until the suspect comes out of the building, and Bezzerides said something along the lines that the bosses wanted them to go in.

 

The Symons, husband and wife, aren't doing it for me.  If they and their IVF dropped out of show, I'd be fine with that.  For some reason, whenever, I see her, I think of a cross between Melissa Gilbert and Tracy Nelson.

 

If this were longer than 8 episodes, I'm not sure I'd keep watching it.  I'm not hating it, but I'm not exactly liking it either.

[Primetimer]

You said a mouthful, Frank. ...Sarah D. Bunting tries, fails to suspend her True Detective disbelief.

Read the story

[Penman61]

The first part of the episode was ghastly. I wasn't bothered by VV, but now I see him as too flat, same line readings in every scene. And I can follow the story lines just fine, but I do not need to see every person Frank visits in his quest for financial salvation if the scenes start to play out pretty much the same. Also boring, everything about TK's character.

 

I liked Ani's scene with her boss. It wasn't unexpected, but there wasn't a prolonged buildup to it; it didn't overstay its welcome; there was some fun writing in it, and it worked well to establish Ani's character. Why can't the show do this for Paul? It's like different writers and editors are working on those 2.

 

Generally though, I thought the dialogue was even more over the top than before. It was never this bad in season 1. Never. For me it's not even that someone called Rust on it, or asked questions, because I thought Rust made sense most of the time (judging by this season, it's likelier and likelier that this was due to so much s1 material being lifted from someone else's writing). It's that this is now how everyone talks at times. For example, Ani talking to her sister, wtf. W.T.F!

 

The shootout scene is this season's WOW!Scene, but I remember the 6-min Tracking Shot being on all sites, even those that don't write much about television. With the awful dialogue and meandering plot, the show could use something huge like that.

This covers most of what I wanted to say.  I just now want to go on record as someone who was not particularly put off by VV, last night's opening scene dialogue was really was tinny and completely unbelievable.  And then when VV was going around ("Just when I was out...they pull me back in!") re-gangstering himself, every single encounter rang false.  And Pam's ex Roy hitting on VV's wife?  We get it, show, VV is feeling EMASCULATED, right!?  Jesus Cialis Christ, that was bad.

 

At this point, I'd settle for a generic murder mystery with some compelling detective work.  You can keep the forced atmosphere, the dialogue deepities, the Saddest Dive in The World, and Closeted Gay Soldier Who's Seen Things in 'Nam I mean Afghanistan/Iraq.

 

P. S.  Who the fuck casts VV and doesn't give his character even a scintilla of humor?  A little black humor, especially leading up to/during the violence, would make him much more menacing.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Penman61

[terrymct]

I swear to god, if they have one more dive bar scene with the existential  woman singer strumming a few notes every 10 seconds, like a Saturday Night Live parody, I'm gonna Elvis my flat screen.

 

This, a thousand times this.   Every time they show her, it takes me completely out of the scene.  OMG, how would such a singer be gainfully employed?  She'd have the customers committing suicide nightly.   Depressing song, slouching over, the miserable expression, strumming the strings as if it's frickin painful.   OMG, she's horrible all around.   Then, the bar is lit in sickly colors.   That place is worse than even the diviest of dive bars.  

[penelope79]

That was a pretty awesome shootout, but oh my God, so many people got shot/died. For what?

Definitively one of the best scenes, so far.

    VV was appropriately menacing and his dialogue wasn't quite as ridiculous. Still don't trust his Mrs. Wasn't that Roy from The Office that they met with in the club?

 

Agreed, I still feel like she's planning her husband's demise.

 

    They were clearly set up, that's why the back-up only showed up at the end.

 

Yeah, I guess that's one of the reasons why they all looked so affected in the end (well, besides the fact they were still alive while all their colleagues were dead). I think they just realized they'd been set-up. They were all genuinly shocked and shaken, I think that by now they have no doubt they've been chosen on purpose, because all of them are expendable.

   

Honestly, I don't have a problem with Vaughn's acting at all - he has 100%, absolutely, some of the worst dialogue I have ever heard in my life. There was one line he said last night that actually made me laugh out loud. It's terrible, and even worse, it's boring. His character is just mind-numbingly boring. And his wife is even worse.

    Paul (seriously, I just learned his name on this board) has a cliched story that I can't even sort of take seriously.

    If it weren't for Farrell and McAdams characters, I would give up entirely. As it is, I'm pretty close. Half of the time I don't know really what's going on and the other half, I don't care.

 

I agree. My problem is not Vince Vaughn at all, but his lines and his storyline (to be fair, count me in with those confused by the whole plot). Whereas the scenes with VV and his wife are, at the very least, understandable (specially if his wife turns out to be against him) though a bit boring, for me Frank's storyline and his quest to legality is a mess. It's like writers didn't properly research the issues they wanted to expose through his characters and keep being vague and confusing because they have no idea what they're talking about in the first place. I honestly think VV is doing an admirable job with what he's given. The same goes with TK, although with him I keep hoping there's more that meets the eyes other than the usual gay guy in the closet.

 

P. S.  Who the fuck casts VV and doesn't give his character even a scintilla of humor?  A little black humor, especially leading up to/during the violence, would make him much more menacing.

 

Ahah, THIS!

[Marianne]

Just a comment on the many previous comments that say that TK's character and storyline are cliches: First, I think just about all the characters, including the cops with tortured pasts, the mobsters and the corrupt officials are cliches, or at least so ubiquitous that they're not showing us anything or any take on anything that we haven't seen repeatedly on TV. I'm still enjoying this for the most part (although not as much as Season 1 for a variety of reasons.) Second, maybe the perspective from the west coast is different, but from where I sit, it seems to me there must still be a lot of closeted gays in the military and the police force who would find it difficult to come to terms with their sexuality and whose coming out would not be greeted with a "so what" in their worlds. I don't feel Woodrugh's story is cliche and I like Taylor Kitsch's performance.

[teddysmom]

I don't feel Woodrugh's story is cliche and I like Taylor Kitsch's performance.

 

This!!!  I don't see why everyone thinks Woodrugh CAN'T be conflicted about his sexuality.    This guy has a lot of shit from his past to deal with, let's see how it plays out. 

[Otherkate]

P. S.  Who the fuck casts VV and doesn't give his character even a scintilla of humor?  A little black humor, especially leading up to/during the violence, would make him much more menacing.

 

Holy shit, yes. I feel for VV, I think he's been horribly underserved by the material. 

[Penman61]

OK, this is the True Detective show I really want.

[amanda5858]

Did they say what operation the wife had, that she might not be able to have kids? Soooo did she get the operation up with Rick Springfield too? I go back and forth with if she's related to the Caspere death.

[cpcathy]

One of my main problems with this season (and I have a few) is there is NO humor! I agree, Vince Vaughn is in something, give him a little humor. Everyone is soooooo serious, especially Ani and Paul. Lighten up!

[Ronin Jackson]

Did I miss something? I didn't get who the criminals were, and further didn't get why they were indiscriminately mowing down everyone in sight. That's not typical street level thug behavior.. did these guys make an impromptu psychotic reign of terror pact when they saw the cops bearing down on them? Some of this might be explained in coming episodes but I definitely feel like I missed something because I didn't know anything about who these people were. If their unmotivated violence was just supposed to be indicative of street violence, I don't buy it.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Ronin Jackson

[yourmomiseasy]

 

1. Vince Vaughan is leaning on people for money and will open up a club. 

 

I'm pretty sure that rather than opening a new club, he just took his old club back by beating the shit out of that guy last week and yanking out his grillz.  I also think that it is the same club that Paul was talking to hookers at as I think both were referred to as "Lux."

As for Paul, while I think Kitsch is selling the angst, there better be more to it than what we've seen. I'm curious about the few days in the valley his Army buddy alluded to in a prior episode. It sounded like it was a good time, not a bad one, so I'm not really sure what to think they got up to in Afghanistan. What's the over/under on his girlfriend losing the baby?

I think it is implied that Paul and the friend had a brief fling over 3 days, probably while separated from their unit.  I'm pretty sure I've seen that happen on TV before and why should any part of his story be original.

 

Did they say what operation the wife had, that she might not be able to have kids? Soooo did she get the operation up with Rick Springfield too? I go back and forth with if she's related to the Caspere death.

My assumption from the context of the discussion was that the operation was an abortion.  Usually on TV you are punished for having one by becoming unable to conceive.  

[islandgal140]

I'm sorry but one awesome gunfight (and it was indeed awesome) isn't saving this show for me. I'm still watching but I can't say I'm enthralled by the show as a whole. 

 

I will give the show its props though and say that the shoot-out was indeed a harrowing scene. I felt the most sorry for the people trapped on the bus. Not for nothing but it did seem like some of the by-standers were just standing around waiting to be shot.

 

Is it any wonder that that sad sack bar is almost always profoundly empty?!?!

 

One thread that I am wondering if it was part of something greater or not was that one missing girl that brought Ani to her dad's new age establishment back in episode 1 but then seemed to be dropped. I think her father must be involved somehow. Way too many players making their way through his place + a missing girl for there not to be. 

 

I'd say there is more going on with Paul than just him fighting 'the gay.' I don't know if he has some mental disorder that makes him lose time or he is being gaslighted somehow but something more is going on with him. However, I still can't say that as of this moment that I am overly intrigued. Him and his girlfriend are just a trainwreck and it hurt my soul when she replied to his I realized I loved you when you told me you were knocked up with "I guess I love you too." What a wonderous start to that baby's life. 

 

Whomever described VV's wife as listless? Perfect description!

 

Frank's red-headed assistant is really acting a bit big for his breaches. 

 

 

It's clear now that all the main characters are changing. Velcoro is now sober, sharp, and seems to have a deeper understanding of what's happening compared to everyone else. Ani is more vulnerable and confused. Paul is going through an existential/identity crisis. And Frank is becoming Mr. Gangster again, but is desperate.

 

 

Ani's also got that IA investigation for sexual misconduct going for her too. It does strike me as interesting that Colin's character is the one who self professes to be the least astute detective seems to have the best idea of the bigger picture, of course owing to him being in part corrupt himself. 

 

I tend to agree the shootout was a set-up.  Before it started, I thought one of the cops asked why don't they just wait until the suspect comes out of the building, and Bezzerides said something along the lines that the bosses wanted them to go in.

 

 

 

Yes that was very interesting and I knew things would not end well then and there. It should also be noted that James Frain's character also wondered if so many cops were necessary to pick up the suspects. 

[teddysmom]

Did I miss something? I didn't get who the criminals were, and further didn't get why they were indiscriminately mowing down everyone in sight. That's not typical street level thug behavior.. did these guys make an impromptu psychotic reign of terror pact when they saw the cops bearing down on them? Some of this might be explained in coming episodes but I definitely feel like I missed something because I didn't know anything about who these people were. If their unmotivated violence was just supposed to be indicative of street violence, I don't buy it.

 

No, the bad guy(s) are working for Chesani et al and were tipped off, and probably told to  just shoot everything and everyone that moved cops, civilians etc, as this will come down on Ani and the task force and then the State probe will stop.  They'll think they have their guy (the one who shot the hostage and got blown away by Paul and Ray), but he was also just a pawn.  

[Ronin Jackson]

No, the bad guy(s) are working for Chesani et al and were tipped off, and probably told to just shoot everything and everyone that moved cops, civilians etc, as this will come down on Ani and the task force and then the State probe will stop. They'll think they have their guy (the one who shot the hostage and got blown away by Paul and Ray), but he was also just a pawn.

It still doesn't make much sense... I mean these guys handlers just call them up and say "Guess what boys? A bunch of cops are coming your way. So we want you to take them out and while you're at it kill everyone and everything in your path for good measure. Oh and you're probably getting killed in the process, so you know, appreciate the hard work and nice knowin' ya!"

These guys should have some motivation of their own aside from following orders. That may come to light in coming episodes but right now the level of violence they reigned down felt unrealistic and gratuitous.

[Pippin]

Too bad SNL isn't on right now. I can see a skit where every crucial scene the singer turns up. Ani Ray and Paul are standing in the street after the shoot out, the singer is there on her stool next to the bus. Frank and his wife are arguing about him getting back into crime and the IVF, the singer is there.  But she also has to be wearing a "Who the Fuck is Stan?" teeshirt.

 

I would actually watch SNL if they did this.

 

Can we just give her the Silver Gun Award (fully functional for easy suicide) for Most Depressing Singer and Lyric Writer in LA And Possibly On Planet Earth now and be done with it?  She makes Vogon poetry look positively uplifting in comparison.

 

I agree that in theory, TK's struggle to exit the fabled closet should be a no-brainer, but everyone has their own demons, and we don't know what happened to him in his past.  Now we should be getting a few hints what that might be instead of just the angst.  (Which I admit TK does well.)  I think if he could, dude would get on his bike and just ride and ride and ride ...

 

After a bit of a shaky start, Collin Farrel is impressing me; he's showing a depth I didn't think he had when he was a young hot action star (and BTW, I think he's still hot).  Rachel McAdams has come a long way since Slings and Arrows; I agree with others who say that if it were just the two of them, the season might be stronger.

 

I think VV could do better; like a wayward horse, he needs an experienced hand on the reins.  (Lousy simile, I know.)  And better writing; sometimes less is more and in his case, less talk, more action.  Show, don't tell.

 

[Cardie]

What's with all the transition shots of highways and streets? Symbolic of the paths available to the characters?

 

Very early on in the development of S2 Pizzolatto said that he had grounded the story in the history of the LA transportation system but that was later scaled back. The commuter railroad is all that remains. He intended, I think, to have roads and rails function like water in Chinatown. Indeed, the building of the freeways is the site of corruption in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, where the Catalyst counterpart was named Cloverleaf.

 

Now that Ray is sobering up, he has a better perspective because he's the only one of the three who knows that Caspere was connected to the rail project and to Frank.

[polyhymnia]

I liked Ray trying to warn Ani about the landscape in Vinci and that the investigation isn't everything it appears to be.  I like that they are bonding in a different way than you often see in police dramas.

 

I am going to make up my own back story for that awful singer.  She can't possibly be making any money in there and she's likely driving away the customers, so she has to be the wife/daughter/sister of the owner.  VV and wife are like they are on another show.  Her line delivery is slow, it seems to me that she either playing the character as drunk or drugged most of the time but then she seems sharp, suddenly, at the club.

 

I thought the gun fight was OTT, but really liked the choices that the actors made, especially Paul.  He was definitely the coolest-headed and most comfortable and just a really sad statement that the most he has been at ease in the series thus far was in this horrible blood-bath.

[hendersonrocks]

Did they say what operation the wife had, that she might not be able to have kids? Soooo did she get the operation up with Rick Springfield too? I go back and forth with if she's related to the Caspere death.

My assumption from the context of the discussion was that the operation was an abortion.  Usually on TV you are punished for having one by becoming unable to conceive.

That was my take too. It pissed me the fuck off and made me hate Vince Vaughn's character and how he's written/performed/ANYTHING even more, which heretofore I thought was impossible. Well done Pizzolatto & Vaughn! 

 

I'm holding out hope the next episode moves the story into a new gear. I've about had my fill of a glacial storyline on top of highway overpass porn, horrific lounge singers, and mumble mouth dialogue. I know the latter things won't change, but please...PLEASE. Let's move the story along.

[BetyBee]

When that gunfight first started, it felt familiar, like I'd seen it before - with the shooter in the window and the explosion.  Maybe on Justified?

[represent]

McAdams/Ani has the best running/chase scenes, or she just looks the best doing them. The scenes with Velcoro and his son and Ani and her sister were good. Velcoro saying that he couldn't handle anymore lives to Ani's father was hilarious.

That shootout was the best, had me on the edge of my seat and it totally made scene given his military history Paul would be that composed standing in the midst of all that carnage. The mayor is just a straight up thug.

 

Just one question, what was in that class square that Velcoro gave to his son? What is that?

[teddysmom]

It still doesn't make much sense... I mean these guys handlers just call them up and say "Guess what boys? A bunch of cops are coming your way. So we want you to take them out and while you're at it kill everyone and everything in your path for good measure. Oh and you're probably getting killed in the process, so you know, appreciate the hard work and nice knowin' ya!"

These guys should have some motivation of their own aside from following orders. That may come to light in coming episodes but right now the level of violence they reigned down felt unrealistic and gratuitous.

 

The bad guy probably killed Caspere for the Mayor, which means he's been working for them for a long time,  and the Mayor is protecting him and his gang by tipping them off.  If you put machine guns up against a bunch of cops with hand guns, who don't know they're walking into an ambush, you probably think the gang is going to come out on top.  If they hadn't crashed into the bus, they probably would have gotten away. 

 

I watched the last episode of Season 1 yesterday afternoon, and the fact that Ruste followed that crazy guy into that maze makes NO sense whatsoever.  As we saw, there were places for him to ambush Ruste & Marty at every turn.  Their final fight with him should have killed them both.  And seeing as how they didn't have cell reception, I still don't know how the State police got the call to show up and save them before the bled to death. 

Just one question, what was in that class square that Velcoro gave to his son? What is that?

 

His father's badge. 

[AlliMo]

P. S.  Who the fuck casts VV and doesn't give his character even a scintilla of humor?  A little black humor, especially leading up to/during the violence, would make him much more menacing.

 

YES. He was damned scary in "Clay Pigeons," in large part because the character hid his sociopathic tendencies behind a front of good humour.

[Jextella]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Here's what I got out of the episode--you tell me if I got everything I should have:

 

1. Vince Vaughan is leaning on people for money and will open up a club. 2. The mayor and chief of police knowingly sent Colin Farrell, Rachel McAdams and Taylor Kitsch into an ambush for the purpose of getting them killed and out of the way.

 

As for the rest, the episode put me to sleep--literally. Portions happened during which I later realized I was unconscious. I do remember McAdams' father showing up.

 

I haven't felt this "outside" a show that I kept watching since John from Cincinnati. It's like, I can't stop watching it--but it's just sort of happening before my eyes as I sit there in a stupor, since I feel I'm getting at most 5% of it.

Same!

 

Regarding #1 and #2 above, it does seem a bit like a David vs. Goliath storyline.  Frank vs. corrupt politicians 'n all.  Maybe that's the cruxt of the plot line? 

Edited July 13, 2015 by Jextella

[LilaFowler]

P. S.  Who the fuck casts VV and doesn't give his character even a scintilla of humor?  A little black humor, especially leading up to/during the violence, would make him much more menacing.

Isn't it true that Woody Harrelson improvised much of his humorous dialogue?  I gave him much credit in the first season but now seeing what Nic's dialogue is like without someone creative like that mixing things up, I appreciate (and miss) him that much more.

 

These guys should have some motivation of their own aside from following orders. That may come to light in coming episodes but right now the level of violence they reigned down felt unrealistic and gratuitous.

Jail. Deportation.

 

I watched the last episode of Season 1 yesterday afternoon, and the fact that Ruste followed that crazy guy into that maze makes NO sense whatsoever.  As we saw, there were places for him to ambush Ruste & Marty at every turn.  Their final fight with him should have killed them both.  And seeing as how they didn't have cell reception, I still don't know how the State police got the call to show up and save them before the bled to death.

Marty used the home's landline to call for backup.  He followed the Yellow King's wife/sister/mother into that bathroom and pulled his gun on her, saying "everyone's got a phone!"  (I watched S1 recently. RIP, Great Amazing Show)

 

P.S.  Isn't what we're watching right now taking place in the past?  For some reason I got the sense from the show's previews weeks ago that we'd be jumping ahead in time at some point. 

Edited July 13, 2015 by LilaFowler

[Milburn Stone]

Glad I'm not the only one who fell into a stupor of unconsciousness while watching. In my defense,I get up really early and even a 9:00 show is too late for me.

 

I don't think it's just that.

[ChipBach]

It still doesn't make much sense... I mean these guys handlers just call them up and say "Guess what boys? A bunch of cops are coming your way. So we want you to take them out and while you're at it kill everyone and everything in your path for good measure. Oh and you're probably getting killed in the process, so you know, appreciate the hard work and nice knowin' ya!"

 

Not to mention if the cops would have actually retreated like they should have and waited for SWAT to show up...  First burst of automatic fire would have been a fairly strong clue to the police that they were out-gunned and needed their better armed brothers and sisters to drive up in a nicely armoured van.  The existing cops could have simply set up outside the exits and prevented escape.  The walking into the fire ala' Pickett's Charge took my out of the scene.  Also, the fact that 6 minutes into the shoot out the protesters were still in the road.  Nope, everyone would have scattered and run for cover.

 

When that gunfight first started, it felt familiar, like I'd seen it before - with the shooter in the window and the explosion.  Maybe on Justified?

 

Justified would have done a better job of it...

 

I still enjoy watching the show, I'm easy tho...  It does not have the quality of story as did S1, however, I will watch and see if there is more to the story than I can see at this time.

[Jextella]

I'm giving the majority of the actors great credit for rising above the truly awful, ridiculous dialogue. Vince Vaughn just isn't selling it to me, perhaps in part because I keep flashing back to his performance in "Clay Pigeons" where he was so good at playing a truly menacing sociopath.

 

I think I held my breath through that entire gunfight.

Same except for Vince V.  He's a big guy and I think his large stature makes "filling a screen" more challenging in many ways.  Rachel can stand there with a pissed off look on her face and say the word "fuck" and get away with it a bit better.  Large emotion in small package...like a firecracker.  Sounds silly, but  I think the bigger actors have a harder time with certain roles. 

 

I think Frank has the weakest dialogue but Vince is making it work for me.  He has from the beginning.  As of last night, I'm officially engaged enough to want to know how his story ends. Same with Ray and now (as of last night as well), Paul.  Still not too interested in Ari.

 

I just had an ah-ha moment while typing this....Nic and others associated with the show have said time and time again its about the characters more than solving a crime.  They screwed up on this big time in S1 IMO given that they pushed items that could easily be construed as clues to the crime down our throats at every turn.

 

As of last night, I'm now more interested in how the characters' stories pan out MORE than I am about the crime.  Perhaps, through all this crummy diaglogue, etc, things are working they way Nic and others wanted in the first place?

 

Honestly, I could care less who killed Caspere or who shot Ray. But, I am interested to know if Frank gets his money back, what Ray does with his kid, and how Paul's multiple story lines pan out, and to a lesser degree, what happens to Ari, her sister and her father.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Jextella

[Matt K]

Not to mention if the cops would have actually retreated like they should have and waited for SWAT to show up...  First burst of automatic fire would have been a fairly strong clue to the police that they were out-gunned and needed their better armed brothers and sisters to drive up in a nicely armoured van.  The existing cops could have simply set up outside the exits and prevented escape.  The walking into the fire ala' Pickett's Charge took my out of the scene.  Also, the fact that 6 minutes into the shoot out the protesters were still in the road.  Nope, everyone would have scattered and run for cover.

What about that guy who just wandered behind the guy with the automatic just so he could take a bullet from Ani?  

 

The gun fight was all kinds of sloppy.  

[Matt K]

Not to mention if the cops would have actually retreated like they should have and waited for SWAT to show up...  First burst of automatic fire would have been a fairly strong clue to the police that they were out-gunned and needed their better armed brothers and sisters to drive up in a nicely armoured van.  The existing cops could have simply set up outside the exits and prevented escape.  The walking into the fire ala' Pickett's Charge took my out of the scene.  Also, the fact that 6 minutes into the shoot out the protesters were still in the road.  Nope, everyone would have scattered and run for cover.

What about that guy who just wandered behind the guy with the automatic just so he could take a bullet from Ani?  

 

The gun fight was all kinds of sloppy.  

[Ronin Jackson]

The bad guy probably killed Caspere for the Mayor, which means he's been working for them for a long time,  and the Mayor is protecting him and his gang by tipping them off.  If you put machine guns up against a bunch of cops with hand guns, who don't know they're walking into an ambush, you probably think the gang is going to come out on top.  If they hadn't crashed into the bus, they probably would have gotten away. 

 

I don't question any of that... my issue is why they crossed this line from being street thugs to Columbine/Sandy Hook style murders who kill for the sake of killing. 

 

I watched the last episode of Season 1 yesterday afternoon, and the fact that Ruste followed that crazy guy into that maze makes NO sense whatsoever.  As we saw, there were places for him to ambush Ruste & Marty at every turn.  Their final fight with him should have killed them both.  And seeing as how they didn't have cell reception, I still don't know how the State police got the call to show up and save them before the bled to death.

 

 

 

Cohle's motivation had been well established. I don't have a problem with characters acting illogically or stupidly... real life people can be known to act that way too. But we knew Cohle had been obsessively hunting the guy for 17 years so it didn't seem random for him to chase him.

 

Jail. Deportation.

 

Again, firing into crowds and buses with machine guns doesn't help one avoid those fates. Columbine/Sandy Hook style murders are premeditated acts of psychotic killing for no other reason than inflicting violence itself. It seems like lazy cartoonish writing to give street thugs that kind of characteristic without explanation. Street violence can be horrific and psychotic and senseless, but typically there is some kind of self serving motivation behind it, which is different than your random violence for the sake of violence massacres.

[teddysmom]

Marty used the home's landline to call for backup.  He followed the Yellow King's wife/sister/mother into that bathroom and pulled his gun on her, saying "everyone's got a phone!"  (I watched S1 recently. RIP, Great Amazing Show)

 

Thanks!! I think I started ff-ing because I knew something bad was going to happen to the dog and I couldn't remember when it happened. Good catch!!  

 

Re S1, don't you think having Marty & Ruste "narrating" the 1995 case to the State police helped the viewer in understanding what was going on?  And then when it gets to 2012, we know enough about the characters and plot that we can follow it easier.  

 

During the scene in the storage place, when Marty's watching the tape, I don't think I watched it the first time around because I knew it'd be bad and didn't notice the little girl crying, which just made it worse.   I thought they were going to rape her since they were holding her legs down.  Pizzolato says in the piece after that epi that he didn't want to beat the viewer over the head with how awful the stuff on the tape might be.  Rather beat us over the head with Ruste being stabbed and Marty taking an axe to the chest. 

Cohle's motivation had been well established. I don't have a problem with characters acting illogically or stupidly... real life people can be known to act that way too. But we knew Cohle had been obsessively hunting the guy for 17 years so it didn't seem random for him to chase him.

 

I meant no sense to me.  I'd have been like, call for back up, get some choppers and dogs in here and we'll hunt that fucker down. 

[Ottis]

The other issue this season has been that there is no one to root for. Vince Vaughn's impotent gangster? The corrupt government? Three cops who are burned out and have heavy baggage? As the plot moves forward, I don't care what happens because I don't care how it affects anyone on my screen. That's in contrast to season one, when I rooted for the poor girls who were abducted and for Marty and his partner to solve the case and, in doing so, make them better people (or at least satisfy, however briefly, the holes in their lives).

 

The gunfight made no sense to me from the moment the horde of cops crossed the street nonchalantly, and behind them passersby barely glanced at them. It went downhill from there. Assuming quite a few civies were killed (on the bus, especially), everyone involved in the shoot out, and their superiors, would be suspended immediately while it was investigated. A shoot out in broad daylights with automatic weapons and all those casualties? Feds would be investigating. This would be global news.