Figure Skating

[COESpiral]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

I agree. Plus she looks so cautious and tentative, like she's just praying "don't fall, don't fall, don't fall, single this jump so you don't fall." I'm not a fan of the "smile, it makes you look pretty" sentiment, but wow, she looks miserable. That can't help her skating.

I was also thinking about how long it's been since the US produced a women's world champion or an Olympic champion. Was Sarah Hughes the last? Jeez. Do any of these current skaters have a chance at the Olympic podium next year? 

Sarah was the last US ladies Olympic champion, Sasha Cohen was the last US ladies Olympic medalist (2006).  Right now, the only real shot at a ladies medalist is Karen Chen (and maybe Tessa Hong if she can do a clean LP...and if she's old enough for 2018).  Ashley, Mirai, and Mariah are long shots at best, but it's ice and stranger things have happened.

I could tell that Gracie and Frank were going to need to end their coach/student assignment but I didn't think it would be that fast.  And Gracie really needs to see a psychologist.  She acts miserable and her health, both physically and mentally, should take precedence over skating.  Take the Olympic year off if you have to, Gracie.  Don't let anybody pressure you into something you're not wanting to do.

It's hard being a Mirai fan.  I don't know whether to hug her or swat at her with a pool noodle upside the head. 

[attica]

It's noteworthy, I think, that three of the four disciplines were won by POC -- Asian Americans, specifically. That makes me happy in a small deep place.

When I heard the 'Frankie ditches Gracie' news, my initial thought was that he got the idea here first. Hee! Ah, well, if he's retiring, why spend (the equivalent of) senior year propping up a head case? Let's hope she finds somebody good for her. 

[HartofDixie]

I think Gracie should take some time off (and get off social media) to reevaluate her career and whether or not she should continue.  If she chooses to continue she should find a new coach/choreo and start working on a plan for next season and skip any shows/tours that she might have been planning to do.

[iMonrey]

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Commentators tend to say {Gracie} is the best as well, but I just don't see it.

I think this assessment is based largely on the fact that she can perform all the same elements as the top Russian ladies, including the triple Lutz/trible toe. Her technique seems to be very good, it's her nerves that are shot. That said - I still think the skating world at large over-hypes this girl because of her looks and her name, and because at one time they saw her as having a better shot at an Olympic medal than Ashley Wagner. Personally I think Ashley Wagner's performance level is much higher than Gracie's.

I love Ashley Wagner, but I have to hold my breath every time she skates because I'm just waiting for her to screw something up. Her consistency has improved over the past couple of years, but she still manages to make little mistakes in almost every competition. She's also incapable of doing a clean triple lutz/triple toe combination. I think that's why the commentators keep trying to pin their hopes on Gracie Gold. If she can just do it, like she did at nationals last year, she's at the same level as the top Russian ladies. 

Of course, at this point, she's going to not only have to put two clean programs together, she's also going to have to learn how to jump with her arm over her head if she has any shot at the gold.

[AllAboutMBTV]

I absolutely do not want to knock ANYthing about Nathan Chen's technical wizardry -- it's fantastic -- but I hope his artistic prowess catches up to his technical. Yes, five quads are terrific -- well done, you -- but it would nice to see something in between them.

[selkie]

At this point, I think Chen's artistry is a lot more fixable- he's made good improvement in even the past year- than Jason Brown's lack of a consistent quad jump. 

[redpencil]

I think Chen is more artistic then he gets credit for (I don't think there's NOTHING in between by any means, which has been the case for other skaters over the years). And he has all the skating skills in his footwork and such, which is part of the performance scores. And I agree he's already come a long way since last year. He seems to be a kid that knows where he needs to improve and will work relentlessly to improve. I read somewhere a quote from him that specifically said he wants to work on his PCS scores before Worlds.

[Mumbles]

It looks like I'm in a minority here but I love Tara and Johnny. I love that they're opinionated, and because they've been there and done that, they can comment on things that a lot of the other folks don't bother with, like choice of music, costumes, etc. And Terry is the perfect, er, straight man for them. I miss Dick Button, and Johnny/Tara are the closest to approaching that level of educated bitchiness.

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Johnny Weir seems way too catty, and I'd like a little more neutrality from him if he's going to report/call the routines.

If anyone, I think Tara was the bitchier one this weekend. They were commenting on the male skater someone Muller, and Johnny said, I like his skating, he reminds me of Jeremy Abbott, and Tara snarked something like, yeah, he reminds me of Jeremy when he puts his hands on the ice when he attempts to land an axel, and Johnny replied bitingly, I meant four-time US champion Jeremy Abbott. Ouch.

Ashley Wagner has grown on me. She is a scrapper, and she is a happy warrior. She seems to actually love to compete. And she has upped her game with her choreography. Loved her Sweet Dreams program.

Never been a Gracie Gold fan. NBC pimped her hard leading into the Olympics and she seemed very smug and full of herself. And while I can't put my finger on it, she also seeemed a bit mean-girly with the other competitors. Like wearing a warmup jacket from the world team when all the other skaters had either not made the team or had been too young to compete.

[caracas1914]

What  kills me about Chen is that his quads look like ho hum triples.

As to  his artistry IMO it's on an upward curve and the foundation is there, and that progress is evident from last year, actually it's a huge leap.

Now that Nathan knows he can land 5 quads  I love how his focus  to work on the component score in Worlds.

Geeze, 5 quads.

[redpencil]

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What  kills me about Chen is that his quads look like ho hum triples.

Right? Most other skaters you can see the effort more times than not, and landing them totally cleanly is the exception. Meanwhile Nathan's over here like, "Hold on, let me throw in this 5th quad for funsies. No biggie." All with impeccable technique! And he seems like such a nice kid, too. I have a total skating crush on him right now. Off to watch his free skate for about the 6th time...

Edited January 24, 2017 by redpencil

[carrier76]

I never see Gracie Gold coming off as a "mean girl" at all, but I do believe she was overhyped. And what I have seen from her is pressure to live up to the expectations that the world has placed on her. I feel like Ashley and other skaters get ignored because Gracie looks like a prototypical ice princess and everybody loves that! And, her last name is GOLD! What I do see is that skaters like Ashley have a lot of friends in the biz, and Gracie always seems to be on an island. I could be wrong. I prefer Ashley, but I like Gracie, and I hope she can get it together.

Something about Frank Carroll has always rubbed me the wrong way, since Kwan was with him. Why did she leave his coaching? Did it have something to do with her father? I never knew the back story behind that.

[Indy]

8 hours ago, redpencil said:

Right? Most other skaters you can see the effort more times than not, and landing them totally cleanly is the exception. Meanwhile Nathan's over here like, "Hold on, let me throw in this 5th quad for funsies. No biggie." All with impeccable technique! And he seems like such a nice kid, too. I have a total skating crush on him right now. Off to watch his free skate for about the 6th time...

He makes them seem so easy, it's just insane. Like you said, so many other other skaters are like "here I go, Imma do it! Imma do a quad! NOW!" and then land it but just kinda-sorta-cleanly. And Nathan's out there just throwing them left and right, all gorgeous, no sweat. Hell, I'd be impressed with five quads period, let alone five lovely ones. It's easy for me to forget how young he actually is. 

[Good Queen Jane]

Well, I had fun at Nationals, certainly more fun than Gracie Gold or Max Aaron. But there is more skating this week. Europeans start in the Czech Republic tomorrow (Jan. 25).

With the exception of possibly Javier Fernandez of Spain in Men, Savchenko and Massot of Germany in Pairs,  and Papadakis and Cizeron in Dance, the Russians are expected to dominate the podium at Europeans. But you never know who might falter and who might rise to the occasion. Carolina Kostner of Italy will make her first appearance at a major competition in over three years, and Alexei Bychenko of Israel could disrupt things in the Men’s competition if he lands his quads and triple axels.

As usual, icenetwork will live stream Europeans, although given the time difference between the U.S. and the Czech Republic, you may have to decide whether sleep is over-rated in order to watch some events. NBCSN will provide same day coverage, while NBC will show highlights on February 4.

Here is the broadcast schedule for Europeans. All times listed are EASTERN. Be sure to check your local TV schedule for the times and channels in your area. For our Canadian friends, I couldn’t find any listing on the CBC or TSN for Europeans but you may want to check your TV schedule to see if I missed something.

ICENETWORK

Wednesday, Jan. 25 - 5:00 am: Ladies Short Program

Wednesday, Jan. 25 - 12:00 noon: Opening Ceremony

Wednesday, Jan. 25 - 12:45 pm: Pairs Short Program

Thursday, Jan. 26 - 6:00 am: Short Dance

Thursday, Jan. 26 - 1:00 pm: Pairs Free Skate

Friday, Jan 27 - 5:15 am: Men’s Short Program

Friday, Jan. 27 - 12:00 noon: Ladies Free Skate

Saturday, Jan. 28 - 7:30 am: Free Dance

Saturday, Jan. 28 - 11:50 am: Men’s Free Skate

NBCSN

Wednesday, Jan. 25 - 12:00 noon: Ladies Short Program

Wednesday, Jan. 25 - 2:00 pm: Pairs Short Program

Thursday, Jan. 27 - 12:00 noon: Short Dance

Thursday, Jan. 27 - 2:00 pm: Pairs Free Skate

Friday, Jan. 28 - 12:00 noon: Men’s Short Program

Friday, Jan. 28 - 2:00 pm: Ladies Free Skate

Saturday, Jan. 28 - 9:00 am: Free Dance

Saturday, Jan. 28 - 6:00 pm: Men’s Free Skate

 

In addition, NBC will be showing the highlights from the Smuckers Skating Spectacular at U.S. Nationals this Saturday January 28 at 2:30pm. There were some fun performances, especially Brian Boitano offering Jason Brown money to include some moves, Chock & Bates sunscreen number, and, of course, Nathan Chen teasing us with his first jump. 

[iMonrey]

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It looks like I'm in a minority here but I love Tara and Johnny. I love that they're opinionated, and because they've been there and done that, they can comment on things that a lot of the other folks don't bother with, like choice of music, costumes, etc. And Terry is the perfect, er, straight man for them. I miss Dick Button, and Johnny/Tara are the closest to approaching that level of educated bitchiness.

First off, I don't miss Dick Button. The last several years he was really struggling to verbalize his thoughts. And I do appreciate that Tara and Johnny make very specific observations about technique - especially Johnny. However, their bias shows too often - especially Johnny's, and especially when it comes to the Russian skaters. I also feel like they talk too much. I got to see a competition with commentators Ryan Bradley and Tracy Wilson and I much preferred them. Bradley was also able to make good technical observations without chattering on and on about costumes or music. They commented where appropriate and shut up otherwise. They were far less obtrusive.

I'm also tired of Terry getting them to interject their own histories into someone else's skate, like asking Tara how nervous she was the first time she was at nationals. That's fine to ask when they're doing their opening intros before the skating starts but I don't want to hear them having a conversation about themselves while someone else is skating!

Edited January 24, 2017 by iMonrey

[basiltherat]

So, when is Nathan going to throw a QUINT into the mix?!

[AuntieDiane6]

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I also feel like they talk too much. I got to see a competition with commentators Ryan Bradley and Tracy Wilson and I much preferred them. Bradley was also able to make good technical observations without chattering on and on about costumes or music. They commented where appropriate and shut up otherwise. They were far less obtrusive.

I nearly stood up and APPLAUDED when Peter Caruthers was commentating for the men's short program on NBC Universal.  His idiot host (not Terry) kept trying to engage him in philosophical conversation about the value of purple sequins or some other nonsense during a program until Peter finally said, "I'll answer that AFTER the program."  BRAVO, PETER!!!  

It seems that the longer people are commentating, the more they start non-stop chattering.  Tara and Johnny were very enjoyable at the Sochi Olympics.  Now, while I enjoy their conversation, it's beginning to feel like the skaters are just background.

[alexa]

I thought that Peter and other commentator were awful. I used to like Peter but he seemed way off his game and out of it. They had these odd pauses like neither knew what to say, and Peter was obsessed with triple axels. It was strange. I wondered why they didn't have some of their regular commentators. 

[AuntieDiane6]

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 thought that Peter and other commentator were awful. I used to like Peter but he seemed way off his game and out of it. They had these odd pauses like neither knew what to say, and Peter was obsessed with triple axels. It was strange. I wondered why they didn't have some of their regular commentators. 

I agree somewhat.  The thing is that Universal is not on basic expanded cable and is usually bundled in a bizarre package of RFD (Rural TV) plus MGM movies ... So NBC goes for the cheap commentators because of the smaller audience.  He was obsessed with the triple axel BECAUSE THE US MEN CAN'T DO THEM. The odd pauses were created because he didn't know the rhythm of the guy with him... I forgot who he was but he VERY CLEARLY had no idea about anything figure skating.  

[Tippi]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm also tired of Terry getting them to interject their own histories into someone else's skate, like asking Tara how nervous she was the first time she was at nationals. That's fine to ask when they're doing their opening intros before the skating starts but I don't want to hear them having a conversation about themselves while someone else is skating!

I am tired of that, too.  It seems like it occurs more with Terry/Tara than Johnny.  I will say that T, T, and J have good chemistry, nice voices for television, and do make some interesting points and can keep the broadcast moving very nicely. 

I don't even know what to think about Gracie.  It struck me that I have no idea what makes her tick, or what she wants to convey through her skating.  With the other skaters who I somewhat follow, I can come up with a few phrases about them because they show something about themselves when they skate.  With Jason, it might be elegant storyteller, loves to perform, audience connection.  With Ashley it is fierce performer, real woman, driven to constantly improve her skating and win.  But with Gracie it's all a blank,  like her performances seem to be just checking off the elements with no emotion on her face.   You can often tell what kind of music a skater likes to skate to, like Ross Miner--his Billy Joel and Queen selections fit him like a glove.  Gracie's choices seem like Frank or Lori said, what about POTO and Gracie said, Ok.  Tango?  Ok.  Daphnis?  Ok.  And while each of those might have been selections that Gracie was wild about, she performs them all the same.  Who, and where, is Gracie in these programs?  I don't know where she can go from here.  It seems like it will be a case of wherever you go, there you are.  I hope there is a coach somewhere who can give her what she needs and I truly wish her well.  I would love to see her skate with complete freedom, to just let it all go and skate.

Besides Nathan's jumps, I do enjoy his nice posture and presence on the ice.  He was very cute in the interviews and seems to have a great competitive mindset.  It sure looks like he can challenge for the podium at Worlds, and how I hope he pulls it off! 

[GreyBunny]

13 hours ago, basiltherat said:

So, when is Nathan going to throw a QUINT into the mix?!

Sometime between combing his hair and brushing his teeth. He'll make it look that easy.

Gracie = stop trying to make fetch happen.

[Good Queen Jane]

For those who may have missed the announcement, below are the skaters whom the USFSA has selected for Worlds, Junior Worlds and Four Continents.

A couple of comments:

- The Worlds Team is very important this year because placements at 2017 Worlds will determine how many entries the U.S. will get at the 2018 Olympics. U.S. Figure Skating wants to send the skaters who will give them the best chance at getting maximum entries for the Olympics.

- U.S. Figure Skating quietly changed the rules earlier this year so that all team members are selected by the USFSA Selection Committee. The gold medal winner in each discipline is no longer assured of being on the Worlds or Four Continents team. Sam Auxier, the President of U.S. Figure Skating, told the media that in the great majority of cases, the gold medal winner would be selected for Worlds and Four Continents, but that USFSA wanted to give the Selection Committee the option to select all the skaters for the teams. Auxier commented to the press that not naming a gold medalist to a team would be a rare occurrence but he could envision a few scenarios where it might be necessary (Auxier didn’t elaborate on that comment).

- The new ISU rule this year is that to compete in Junior Worlds, skaters must have gotten their required minimum scores at an ISU Junior event. To compete at Senior Worlds and Four Continents/Europeans, skaters must have achieved their required minimum scores at an ISU Senior event. Skaters who competed at the Senior level at Nationals can’t be named to the Junior Worlds Team unless they competed in a Junior event in the last two years (and got the required scores), even if they are age-eligible. Likewise, skaters who did the Junior Grand Prix but competed as Seniors at Nationals can’t be named to the Worlds or Four Continents unless they can get the required minimum technical scores at an ISU Senior event. This is the “Polina Edmunds Rule”. You’ll recall that Edmunds competed at the 2014 Olympics even though she had not competed in an ISU Senior event prior to the Olympics.

- Jason Brown was named to the Four Continents and World Teams, even though he came in 3rd in Men. Brown had been off the ice until about two weeks ago due to a stress fracture in his foot, and it was obvious in Kansas City that he was not yet fully trained up for competition. But the international judges love the way Brown skates, and he has a couple of weeks to get ready for Four Continents and about two months until Worlds. He has the best chance of getting a high placement as the second U.S. Men’s skater. Besides, Vincent Zhou, who finished 2nd in Men, hasn’t achieved the required minimum technical scores in a Senior competition, and he is still age-eligible for Junior Worlds.

- The naming of Scimeca Knierim and Knierim to the Four Continents and Worlds teams in Pairs caught quite a few people off guard. In their announcement about skipping Nationals, the Knierims implied they were not going to compete this year. However, reigning Pairs champions Kayne and O’Shea had to withdraw after the Short Program in Kansas City (she had concussion-like symptoms after hitting her head on a fall on a throw), and the other teams who placed either did not skate well or didn’t really have the technical content in their program to be competitive at Worlds. It’s not clear whether Scimeca Knierim and Knierim volunteered or were asked to be on the Four Continents and World Teams, but they are there. Castelli and Tran, who finished 2nd in Pairs even though they failed to land their jumps cleanly in both the Short and Free Skate, didn’t get an assignment.

- Most of the skaters who competed in Juniors in Kansas City last week had only recently moved up from Novice. With a few exceptions, the current U.S. Juniors don’t have the technical scores to compete at Junior Worlds. So several of the skaters who competed as a Senior at Nationals were named to the Junior Worlds team. There were a lot of skaters in Seniors in Kansas City who are still age-eligible for Junior Worlds, and had gotten the required minimum technical scores at a Junior event in the past two years.

- As usual, Ashley Wagner has declined an assignment to Four Continents. I thought she might go this year since the venue in Korea is the one which will be used for the Olympics, but apparently Wagner doesn’t feel she needs a “trial run” in the venue.

Here are the skaters who will represent the U.S. at Worlds, Four Continents and Junior Worlds. Skaters are listed in alphabetical order.

WORLDS TEAM

Ladies: Mariah Bell, Karen Chen, Ashley Wagner

             Alternates: 1) Mirai Nagasu 2) Grace Gold 3) Caroline Zhang

Men: Jason Brown, Nathan Chen

             Alternates: 1) Vincent Zhou 2) Grant Hochstein 3) Max Aaron

Pairs: Denney and Frazier, Scimeca Knierim and Knierim

             Alternates: 1) Cain and LeDuc 2) Castelli and Tran 3)Stellato and Bartholomay

Dance: Chock and Bates, Hubbell and Donohue, Shibutani and Shibutani

             Alternates: 1) Hawayek and Baker 2) Pogrebinksy and Benoit 3) Biechler and Dodge

FOUR CONTINENTS TEAM

Ladies: Mariah Bell, Karen Chen, Mirai Nagasu
             Alternates: 1) Gracie Gold 2) Courtney Hicks 3) Angela Wang

Men: Jason Brown, Nathan Chen, Grant Hochstein

             Alternates: 1) Ross Miner 2) Max Aaron 3) Alexander Johnson

Pairs: Cain and LeDuc, Denney and Frazier, Scimeca Knierim and Knierim

             Alternates: 1) Castelli and Tran 2) Stellato and Bartholomay 3) Pfund and Santillan

Dance: Chock and Bates, Hubbell and Donohue, Shibutani and Shibutani

            Alternates: 1) Hawayek and Baker 2) Pogrebinsky and Benoit 3) Cannuscio and McManus

JUNIOR WORLDS TEAM

Ladies: Amber Glenn, Bradie Tennell

            Alternates: 1) Starr Andews 2) Ashley Lin 3) Megan Wessenberg

 Men: Alex Krasnozhon, Andrew Torgashev, Vincent Zhou

            Alternates: 1) Camden Pulkinen 2) Kevin Shum 3) Tomoki Hiwatashi

 Pairs: Liu and Johnson, Digeerness and Neudecker

            Alternates: 1) Yao and Hale 2) Marvaldi and Villeneuve 3) Lockley and Prochnow

 Dance: Carreira and Ponomarenko, McNamara and Carpenter, Parsons and Parsons

              Alternates: 1) Lewis and Bye 2) Gropman and Somerville 3) Gunter and Wein

[caracas1914]

So Vincent Zhou was bumped from Worlds.  I realize he's raw and only 16 but it's such a short term decision and it's not like Jason Brown with his technical content is going to be more competitive.

[iMonrey]

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Gracie's choices seem like Frank or Lori said, what about POTO and Gracie said, Ok.  Tango?  Ok.  Daphnis?  Ok.  And while each of those might have been selections that Gracie was wild about, she performs them all the same.  Who, and where, is Gracie in these programs? 

It's interesting you say that because that's pretty much the reason Michelle Kwan gave for leaving Frank and Lori. She felt like the entirety of her skating was them and not her. Of course, we all know what happened after she left them.

I can't really think of a top tier skater that benefited from changing coaches. If you fall down on your jumps all the time a coaching change isn't really going to fix that: see Sasha Cohen, Nicole Bobek, Michael Weiss,  just to name a few.

Quote

So Vincent Zhou was bumped from Worlds.  I realize he's raw and only 16 but it's such a short term decision and it's not like Jason Brown with his technical content is going to be more competitive.

I can see the argument for it. Zhou is green and could really bomb. Brown won't medal but he's more likely to place in the top 10, which is what they need to get three spots for men at the Olympics.

Edited January 25, 2017 by iMonrey

[COESpiral]

Zhou also does not have the minimum scores necessary to qualify for Worlds.  He'd have to attend a Senior B comp between now and Worlds to make those scores and it could be that there either isn't enough time or his team would rather concentrate on getting a Junior Worlds medal and try to get a senior Grand Prix event next season so he can try to compete in Pyeongchang.  Don't know.  But with Nathan's jump arsenal and Jason's artistry, I guess the USFS is gambling that the two of them can place high enough to get 3 spots for next year.  Fingers crossed.

On 1/24/2017 at 8:31 AM, carrier76 said:

Something about Frank Carroll has always rubbed me the wrong way, since Kwan was with him. Why did she leave his coaching? Did it have something to do with her father? I never knew the back story behind that.

Long story short, she grew up (shocking how kids do that) and wanted to make her own decisions about some things, Frank is an all-or-nothing kind of coach, and the relationship soured.  They parted on semi-good terms but I understand that nowadays they're very close so whatever tiffs they had then are mended now.  I think people wanted to place all the blame on Michelle's dad at the time, but things weren't that cut and dry.  It was all bungled rather badly.

Frank is almost 80, he's announced he's retiring from full-time coaching after next year, and I think he's reached a point of not wanting to deal with any more headcases.  Which is his prerogative, but he could've handled the situation with Gracie SO much better.  It was obvious they needed to part ways but not in the 'cranky old man not giving a damn' way.

[Matryoshka]

19 hours ago, Tippi said:

I don't even know what to think about Gracie.  It struck me that I have no idea what makes her tick, or what she wants to convey through her skating.  With the other skaters who I somewhat follow, I can come up with a few phrases about them because they show something about themselves when they skate.  With Jason, it might be elegant storyteller, loves to perform, audience connection.  With Ashley it is fierce performer, real woman, driven to constantly improve her skating and win.  But with Gracie it's all a blank,  like her performances seem to be just checking off the elements with no emotion on her face.   You can often tell what kind of music a skater likes to skate to, like Ross Miner--his Billy Joel and Queen selections fit him like a glove.  Gracie's choices seem like Frank or Lori said, what about POTO and Gracie said, Ok.  Tango?  Ok.  Daphnis?  Ok.  And while each of those might have been selections that Gracie was wild about, she performs them all the same.  Who, and where, is Gracie in these programs?

I think she's tried so hard to fit into the classical ice princess box that has been placed on her for the last few years that she has no idea herself who Gracie really is or what she wants. I feel badly for her, although I do understand being tired of all the excessive "Gracie Gold" hype USFSA and the media has pushed.

[specialj67]

It's annoying that NBC's coverage of most events is buried deep in their cable sports channels, but bumming a family member's cable login comes in handy from time to time, like wanting to watch the coverage of Europeans. Day one thoughts:

The only one surprise in the women's short--that Carolina Kostner is up in the medal mix, playing the role of possible spoiler to another Russian sweep. I don't care for her short program, but if it helps break the Russian domination, I'm all for it.

In the pairs short, it was worth watching all of the splats just to get to James/Cipres at the end--they were fresh and modern and CLEAN. Holy crap. It's was what I've been waiting to see from them since first noticing them during the Sochi Olympics. It would be amazing if they managed to pull off a podium finish. Apparently, they're training in Florida now with a couple of the top pairs coaches, and man does it show.

[azshadowwalker]

I just came to talk about James/Cipres. I need the space on my DVR, but I don't want to delete the pairs because of their skate. Most of the pairs were bad. Only the final two pairs were worth watching. 

I did enjoy the women's short programs. So far, I am enjoying it much more than US Nationals. Of course, the quality of skaters is better. 

[SophiaD]

Not to rehash ancient (and painful to us Bobek-lovers), but if Nicole had stayed with Richard Callaghan (one of her many coaching changes) and really worked at it, she might have been an Olympic or multiple-times World champion.  I still remember how brilliant her Worlds short program was in...  1995? (wow, I'm old).  

I don't think Frank was the right choice for Gracie at all.  She seems so burned out and unhappy that I can see her just throwing in the towel.  If she does stay in, I hope she finds someone she really likes working with, and who makes it fun for her again.  I think she's super-talented and her jumps are gorgeous.  

[caracas1914]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

I can see the argument for it. Zhou is green and could really bomb. Brown won't medal but he's more likely to place in the top 10, which is what they need to get three spots for men at the Olympics.

Sure that could happen, yet at the same time I dunno  it negates the results of performing well in the pressure packed Nationals.   Once upon a time this was used primarily as a wild card if a top skater with Worlds experience was injured;  that I could understand.

The USFSA basically Predicting how Zhou will do at his first Worlds ahead  of time as a reason to bump him leaves a sour  taste in my mouth.

[selkie]

Whether or not you let athletes standards chase after the designated selection event is something that comes up in other sports, especially in track & field. Distance races at non-rabbited (pacemaker-free) meets often end up sit and kick affairs rather than a race run hard from start to finish, and it's common for the winning time at a national championship to be well off a World Championship or Olympic time standard. Some years, USA Track & Field allows standards chasing, other years they just roll it down to the highest finishing athletes who already have a global standard. 

So I can see USFSA trying to work their way through rule revisions and deciding to exclude the currently ineligible from the Worlds team even though there are opportunities for the athlete to chase for it between now and the WC entry deadline.  There are pros and cons of chasing or not, and this year they think setting the team earlier will work out best for the federation. 

[healthnut]

My heart broke for Mirai AGAIN. Sigh. No Polina, Gracie gone bad, this was a tremendous opportunity. Just not going to happen for her I'm afraid. She was coached by Frank Carroll for awhile, too. In fact, She has had quite a few coaches and I know that hasn't helped. 

Ashley always grated but I've grown to really like her and I preferred her program to Karen Chen's but I'm okay with result. Can't see either one competing with Medvedeva but I'm suppose at some point she'll make a human mistake, maybe... With Carolina back, she's almost assured a silver or bronze medal at Worlds. 

[Shades of Red]

For the first time in years I've watched several dance teams have falls or very noticeable errors.  Can't figure out if it's nerves or if they are getting more technical.  Happened in the U.S. nationals and up here in Canada as well.  As much as I want to dislike Scott and Tessa and am ticked they've returned, I have to say, they really have improved and I can't fault their scores.  Makes me sad for Andrew and Kaitlyn, but it is something to watch when you have so many equally talented dance couples where it's anyone's game to win.  Gone are the days when the Russian teams cleaned up in this category.

Not sure who watched the Canadian nationals, but did anyone else laugh when Rod Black said (paraphrasing), the ladies are no longer in the land of splat?!   I haven't watched our ladies in years for this very reason and actually watched some of their skating this weekend.  Things are changing and we finally have some strong contenders. 

I watched a tiny bit of the U.S. nationals and I have to echo any comments that aren't thrilled with the commentating.  Do they ever shut up?  Information can be a good thing, but when a program has the potential to take your breath away, it's nice to have silence while watching.  As I don't watch much coverage on the U.S. channels, I have to wonder if they ever let the viewers have a chance to just enjoy and absorb a program?  So far anytime I've tuned in, this hasn't been the case and it's very annoying.

[HartofDixie]

I'm curious to see what the podium finishes will be at Europeans.  Too bad they don't have Euros and 4CC held the same week.

Edited January 26, 2017 by HartofDixie

[MostlyC]

Will NBC be covering Europeans?  Sounds like there's been (another) Ice Dancing Controversy.  sacre bleu!

(Also, if Frank or Gracie ever write a tell-all, I will be first in line to buy a copy).

[carrier76]

4 hours ago, MostlyC said:

Will NBC be covering Europeans?  Sounds like there's been (another) Ice Dancing Controversy.  sacre bleu!

(Also, if Frank or Gracie ever write a tell-all, I will be first in line to buy a copy).

I am currently watching the ladies' short program that I recorded earlier this. :) It has been on nbcsn.

[Good Queen Jane]

13 hours ago, MostlyC said:

Will NBC be covering Europeans?  Sounds like there's been (another) Ice Dancing Controversy.  sacre bleu!

NBC will show highlights on February 4.

Ekaterina Bobrova/Dmitri Soloviev of Russia have a narrow lead in the Short Dance, edging Italy’s Anna Cappelllini/Luca Lanotte by less than a point. Defending Champions Gabriella Papadakis/Guillaume Cizeron of France are not far behind in third place. Cappellini/Lanotte were in the lead by less than a point but the results were revised, as after a review by the Referee and the Technical Panel, it was confirmed that Cappellini/Lanotte had performed an additional element, a rotational lift, in the Short Dance, which results in a deduction of one point for an extra element. As a consequence, Cappellini/Lanotte’s score changed and they switched placement with Bobrova/Soloviev.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Good Queen Jane

[AllAboutMBTV]

Goes Guillaume C need a hug? I would be happy to provide one. Or 12.

[COESpiral]

I used to not be able to stand Carolina Kostner and now I adore her. Her SP at Euros was fantastic!  And for being forced away from competition for almost two years she looks really good. Looking forward to seeing the LP. 

The Russian girls are all jumping beans but none of them resonate with me. And I loathe Medvedeva's LP this season. Too bad Tuktamysheva has been bombing this year.  I find her interesting. 

[specialj67]

It's annoying that NBC's coverage of most events is buried deep in their cable sports channels, but bumming a family member's cable login comes in handy from time to time, like wanting to watch the coverage of Europeans. Day one thoughts:

The only one surprise in the women's short--that Carolina Kostner is up in the medal mix, playing the role of possible spoiler to another Russian sweep. I don't care for her short program, but if it helps break the Russian domination, I'm all for it.

In the pairs short, it was worth watching all of the splats just to get to James/Cipres at the end--they were fresh and modern and CLEAN. Holy crap. It's was what I've been waiting to see from them since first noticing them during the Sochi Olympics. It would be amazing if they managed to pull off a podium finish. Apparently, they're training in Florida now with a couple of the top pairs coaches.

[specialj67]

Happy to see Carolina finish on the podium. Medvedeva is growing on me, if only because she is one of the most damn consistent skates competing right now. I'm 60/40 on liking her LP this season--there are elements,  not involving the damn arm over the head, that are wonderful to watch, but I still wrestle with the feeling of emotional manipulation regarding the use of audio clips in the middle. As she is our new Russian ice queen overlord, I have to say I prefer her a bit to the 2015 world champ just because her programs don't feature wiggling as a choreographed element.

i felt a bit old watching the men's short when Stephane Lambiel popped up as the Latvian skater's coach. Where has the time gone... I look forward to seeing what he can do with the Latvian kid, because he was damn entertaining to watch today in the short.

[NicoleMN6]

Quote

I can't really think of a top tier skater that benefited from changing coaches. If you fall down on your jumps all the time a coaching change isn't really going to fix that: see Sasha Cohen, Nicole Bobek, Michael Weiss,  just to name a few.

Ashley Wagner and Adam Rippon have both improved their jump techniques since switching to Arutyunyan. Based on Wagner and Johnny Weir before her, I think that Priscilla Hill may not have been a great coach for top senior-level skaters -- maybe not strict enough?

I think Mirai Nagasu would have done much better with a different coach years ago.

[Maelstrom]

Slowly catching up on Europeans - damn there were some impressive pairs this year! US pairs have been lackluster to me for so long I'd forgotten just how good they can really be. The Germans and James/Cipres were both just absolutely brilliant.

I'm happy Carolina Kostner made it onto the podium, she's been one of my favorites for a long time, and it's nice to see she seems to have gained some consistency over her younger days. Also enjoying Anna Pogorilya this year. THank you NBCSN for showing all of the competitors instead of a handpicked few, because I quite enjoyed watching Nicole Rajicova and Lena Hendricksx - looking forward to seeing more from them in the future. Also, the French gal's quick costume change entertained me far more than it had any right to.

So sick of Mevedeva, her manipulative music, her damn arm, and her eternal surprise face. I'm just over her.

Now to catch up on mens and dance.

[honeywest]

There should be a Medvedeva Rule limiting the number of jumps a skater can do with an arm overhead.

[honeywest]

Papadakis and Cizeron move up from third place to win their third straight European title. Cappellini and Lanotte in second, Bobrova and Soloviev third.

[azshadowwalker]

Medvedeva kicks ass. If the other women can't compete, they need to get their acts together.

As for her music, why do people choose songs with lyrics? It's for emotional impact. Most skaters do it now that they  (unwisely) allow them. The Grease LP with both lyrics AND costume sideshow were meant to pull in the audience and judges on an emotional level. 

The French skater's costume was interesting, I guess. I just found myself distracted by it, though. At the beginning, I could see the black edge at the top, and it seemed really bulky. At the end, it was flying up, revealing the pink and blue of the original. 

Kostner? Well, she skated great. That said, someone who helps another athlete dodge a doping test, but claims she didn't know he was doping, is a liar, an idiot or both. Why else would he be trying to avoid the test, genius? Can't get behind someone who helps dopers.

[Moxie Cat]

Argh - totally forgot the U.S. gala was on today and missed the first 15 minutes. Came in halfway through Jason Brown. Who did I miss? And is this scheduled to air anywhere else, like NBCSN?

[Enero]

12 hours ago, honeywest said:

There should be a Medvedeva Rule limiting the number of jumps a skater can do with an arm overhead.

I completely agree. I know the "Taino" jumps garner a lot of points but it's not asthetically pleasing IMHO to the overall presentation of the program  and look quite gimmicky when nearly every jump is done with the hand over the head. 

[Maelstrom]

1 hour ago, Moxie Cat said:

Argh - totally forgot the U.S. gala was on today and missed the first 15 minutes. Came in halfway through Jason Brown. Who did I miss? And is this scheduled to air anywhere else, like NBCSN?

My DVR has apparently decided not to record any figure skating on NBC anymore D: I only caught the last fifteen minutes after I saw Moxie Cat's post. So I'd love to know if the whole special will air again, too!

Edited January 28, 2017 by Maelstrom

[Libby96]

Does anyone know if and when Four Continents will air?  My figure skating season pass on my DVR uses to work like a charm, but now it apparently picks up some skating but not necessarily all of it.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Libby96

[ML89]

I got horse racing too on my DVR.  So I watched on the NBC Sports app - it had it in its entirety.