Figure Skating

[le bordel chaud]

OMG I'm so nervous! Mirai has been landing triple axels in practice and I'm terrified of any and all scenarios regarding it. I just will cross my fingers and hope she makes the World team. I must admit that I've caught myself fantasizing that she could win her second national title an amazing NINE years after her first one!

[Moxie Cat]

Argh! Why is men's short the only thing I can't get?! Why is NBC SN not running that on Friday night? It's running all the other shorts.

[MostlyC]

Johnny Weir seems way too catty, and I'd like a little more neutrality from him if he's going to report/call the routines.

[HartofDixie]

Where can I find the full results?

[COESpiral]

I've lost count of the number of times I've said or thought "Shut up, Tara!" at the screen tonight.  Geez.

[greendog78]

Tara and Johnny really need to take a broadcasting course. I had the turn down the sound for a while.

@HartofDixie Results can be found here.

[carrier76]

I am really trying not to get too excited about Mirai being in 2nd...

[gatopretoNYC]

5 hours ago, COESpiral said:

I've lost count of the number of times I've said or thought "Shut up, Tara!" at the screen tonight.  Geez.

Me too. She also seemed to be jinxing the ladies' jumps, so I was really yelling "Shut up Tara!" during Mirai's program.

[HartofDixie]

Go Mirai!  Wonder if she'll attempt the 3axel.  As for Gracie...sigh....

Just realized that Elizaveta Kulik is competing in junior ladies.

Edited January 20, 2017 by HartofDixie

[CeeBeeGee]

15 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Go Mirai!  Wonder if she'll attempt the 3axel.  As for Gracie...sigh....

Just realized that Elizaveta Kulik is competing in junior ladies.

I pray Mirai lands it! Heck, even if she just attempts it it'll be a game-changer--was Kimmie Meissner the last American woman to throw 3As, or Tonya?

Gracie breaks my heart. I was literally on the edge of my couch with my hands clasped together for her. 

Loved Ashley's attack--looking forward to her LP.

Karen!!!! What a gorgeous SP! I've rooted for her ever since her bronze two years ago, so lovely to see her do so well!

[le bordel chaud]

@CeeBeeGee It was Kimmie. It was shaky and I doubt it would have been ratified internationally. I normally like Tara more than most folks, but she was grating last night. And yes, Mirai does have "something to lose" by going for the 3A. It's called a spot on the World team! The one Coach Tom posted on Instagram was GORGEOUS but we have no idea how consistent she is with it. And Mirai tends to be a nervous competitor on top of that. Hell, I get nervous watching her LOL.

The technical specialist was very generous last night. There were lots of noticeable underrotations that weren't called. This isn't doing our ladies any favors, folks! Karen Chen was beautiful though. I wouldn't mind the current Top 3 being the World team, although it would be a fight for us to retain 3 spots for the Olympics. But if Gracie keeps skating as she has all season, she will be a detriment to the cause anyway. I just feel so sorry for her. Her headcaseness is just at a whole another level than anyone I've ever seen before.

Please Skategods, let Mirai have a good skate like the one from 4 Continents last season. If she does that, I think she'll win her second National title.

Edited January 20, 2017 by delicatecutter

[iMonrey]

Frankly I'm tired of hearing about Gracie Gold. To me, she has just never lived up to the hype. I've always thought the media just latched onto her because of her name and her looks. She has great technical elements but she's never put those clean programs together except for last year at nationals. I still think her performance level is far below that of Ashley Wagner's. 

I was a little surprised to see Mirai ranked higher than Ashley because Mirai's stumble was more egregious than Ashley's and Ashley's performance level was far above Mirai's IMO. 

But yes, Karen Chen stole the show last night with a well deserved record setting score for a short program. Good for her. I'm hoping she can put together a clean long program.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Is there any way for me to watch the men's short program if I don't have Universal? Can I pay for one event on icenetwork or do I have to subscribe to everything?

Call your cable company and get it tonight and then cancel next week.

[MaryMitch]

Count me as one who is tired of the hype around Gracie Gold. I just can't care about her any more.

I enjoyed all the top 3's programs, but performance-wise, I preferred Ashley Wagner's program. It was just so much fun to watch. She really knows how to grab the audience.

[redpencil]

Holy moly, Nathan Chen. Can't wait to see how far this kid can go.

Loved this:

[MostlyC]

Wow.  I think Nathan is a great jumper, needs a little more artistry, but mostly; that was a pretty weak field. Apparently, it wasn't worthy enough for Tara and Johnny to add their commentary.  Wow.

The Ice Dancing Short Programs was pretty amazing though.

[COESpiral]

Yeah, Shib Sibs!!!!  Their SD is fantastic, and honestly, they were the only ones tonight other than Chock/Bates that seemed to fully embrace the whole hip hop movement.  A few bobbles, but otherwise amazing.   Crossing fingers the Shibs get national title #2!

As much as I love Hubbell/Donohue, this SD is so not their thing.  The first half was good, but then when it changed to all the music cuts for the hip hop style, I just grimaced.  Here's hoping their FD pushes them past Chock/Bates for the silver as I am not a C/B fan at all.

[iMonrey]

What a sorry lot of men's figure skaters we have right now. Aside from Nathan Chen, not one of them is competitive internationally. For some reason the telecast ran overtime and my DVR cut off right as Jason Brown was starting his skate. How did he do? Who else did I miss?

[attica]

To my eyes, the Shibs are in many ways superior to the rest of the field, with their precision and edges and how close they skate. But the public/media frisson always seem to be with the heteronormative pairs, the coupley ones. Don't know/care whether they're actual couples, my point is that they perform het coupleness with their adoring eyes and languid embraces. Which gives the Shibs a higher bar to clear, since they have to skate well enough to overcome that bias for the romantic model. I think they do, and their scores reflect it (a benefit of the new system!), but the coverage always puzzles me.

On 1/20/2017 at 10:07 AM, CeeBeeGee said:

Loved Ashley's attack--looking forward to her LP.

I like Ashley's choice of music and her footwork, but her armwork is always the same to me, either vampily stroking her body or Plushenkoesque flapping. I certainly take Johnny's point about the bias towards 'princessy' presentation, and I'm all for breaking that mold, but: not gonna be a fan of arm flapping, not ever.

I fully approve of Ryan's complaint about the failure of the men's field to land the 3A. That jump hasn't gotten any harder in 30 years, and yet!

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

For some reason the telecast ran overtime and my DVR cut off right as Jason Brown was starting his skate.

Mine too. Bah! According to the tubz, He fell on the 3A, flubbed the 3L, and is in 4th place now.

[Moxie Cat]

NBC is airing some of the men's short before the live women's free program (as of 8:15 pm EST).

Happy for the Shibs, but I thought the Chock/Bates FS was fab. Very close call, IMO.

[carrier76]

It's hard being a Mirai fan...

[SophiaD]

I like Gracie.  I think she needs a different coach.  Frank Carroll doesn't seem to bring out the best in her at all.

I really dislike Ashley's skating.  She's technically very proficient, but I don't enjoy her artistry.  It just doesn't speak to me.  I'll be glad when she retires, honestly.  I'm very much rooting for Mirai or Karen right now.

[Maelstrom]

Of all the nights for my DVR to randomly not record skating :( Guess I'll have to see what I find on YouTube.

[Rear Window]

I think Gracie needs to call it a day. Doubt a new coach will change anything. I'm not a huge fan of Ashley so not sorry she didn't win, but Karen Chen (and Mirai) need points taken off for those stupid gloves. I hate that the Russians wear them and now some of the US skaters are. 

And on a shallow note, is it really that difficult to find tights that match skin tone? It's really distracting when they're several shades darker. And even worse when they cover the boots. 

I was glad to see Tara and Johnny be honest about Jason Brown. He has no chance internationally. I've never seen his appeal and think he's more suited to show skating.

[BlackberryJam]

They entirely downplayed Karen Chen for most of the broadcast, basically ignoring her as a story. I could really tell that Tara is in love with with Gracie Gold's skating. I wanted her just to shut up and leave that poor, sad girl alone. 

I feel like Ashley is to try-hard with her artistry. Her flailing about is all "LOOK AT MY ARTISTRY" while some of the ladies are just artistic. I don't find her skating being mature as much as I find it acting mature.

Edited January 22, 2017 by BlackberryJam

[attica]

1 hour ago, SophiaD said:

 

I like Gracie.  I think she needs a different coach.  Frank Carroll doesn't seem to bring out the best in her at all.

I think she needs an old-school Soviet coach, with cold tea, stale bread and threats of violence for every missed element. Something to get her out her own head!

(I'm kidding about the beatings. Mostly. :) )

[Avaleigh]

On 1/19/2017 at 10:35 PM, carrier76 said:

I am really trying not to get too excited about Mirai being in 2nd...

I told myself not to get excited but when she hit the opening combination, I squeed and thought, 'Okay, okay, she's going to do it.' My optimism lasted for about eight seconds. ;p

I'm glad that she at least made the top four but think it would have been kind of nice if Caroline could have taken home the pewter medal, since she really did fight hard for that skate. Caroline's skate was one of the nicest surprises of the night. I felt proud of her and impressed that she (and Mirai) are still in it after all this time and all of the disappointments.

6 hours ago, carrier76 said:

It's hard being a Mirai fan...

She looked so devastated, I just wanted to give her a hug. I feel like she an Gracie both need psychological therapy. 

5 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

They entirely downplayed Karen Chen for most of the broadcast, basically ignoring her as a story. I could really tell that Tara is in love with with Gracie Gold's skating. I wanted her just to shut up and leave that poor, sad girl alone. 

I feel like Ashley is to try-hard with her artistry. Her flailing about is all "LOOK AT MY ARTISTRY" while some of the ladies are just artistic. I don't find her skating being mature as much as I find it acting mature.

I was shocked that Tara seemed to prefer Ashley to Karen because I thought Karen had the better program in every way. 

I agree with you 100% regarding Ashley's artistry. She has two facial expressions and I agree with attica about the Plushenko-esque arm flapping. I also don't understand how her spins receive the levels that they do, especially her combination spin because it's about as basic as it gets. 

The future of US ladies skating seems bright to me and I'm looking forward to seeing more from Mariah, Karen, and Tessa.

On 1/20/2017 at 6:48 AM, HartofDixie said:

Just realized that Elizaveta Kulik is competing in junior ladies.

Does anyone know how she skated? I see her results but I'm just curious if she had a bad skate or if she just isn't technically on the level of the girls who placed above her. She has all of her triples, right? 

9 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Happy for the Shibs, but I thought the Chock/Bates FS was fab. Very close call, IMO.

I prefer the Shibs to Chock and Bates 95% of the time but in this case I absolutely preferred the free dance of Chock and Bates and felt a little disappointed that the program wasn't a winner for them. 

5 hours ago, attica said:

I think she needs an old-school Soviet coach, with cold tea, stale bread and threats of violence for every missed element. Something to get her out her own head!

(I'm kidding about the beatings. Mostly. :) )

I don't understand why she didn't spend her summer more productively since she was still interested in competing this season. I thought that was puzzling. 

As for her attitude--to me, she either needs to rediscover her love of the sport or quit. There are some skaters who just give off the vibe of being miserable and she seems like she'd rather be doing just about anything else. Even though Gracie is more talented and has accomplished more in her career, I'm getting Lisa Ervin vibes in terms of the unhappiness and self perceived body issues. 

[alexa]

I like Ashley.  I like her determination and fight, and I like some of her programs quite a bit.  Karen did really well however so I have no issue with her win.  I appreciate that Ashley doesn't give up, and she is very supportive of her competitors.  She has been a help to the US and its placements, and finally won a world medal at a time in which that is really hard to do, so I have respect what she has accomplished.

[MaryMitch]

I like Ashley too. Her programs are different and fun to watch. I like the way her programs have to coordinate with the music; with those lyrical classical pieces, the skater is less challenged to synchronize with the music.

10 hours ago, attica said:

I think she needs an old-school Soviet coach, with cold tea, stale bread and threats of violence for every missed element. Something to get her out her own head!

This has been going on for so long, I don't see how she can continue without a major change in SOMETHING. 

[Dots And Stripes]

I saw an interview with Gracie after one of her disappointing Grand Prix performances her talking about struggling with her weight. I found it very sad because she was saying how figure skaters needed to be a certain size and she wasn't at that size. I wondered how much of that was really physical and how much was a self-image problem, that her body had changed and rather than working with the changes she felt she needed to fit a certain mold. I was disappointed to hear Tara and Johnny say Gracie's problems were all from last years worlds (and for Johnny to say 'get over it') when I think her struggles go beyond that.

[basiltherat]

Frank needs to drop Head Case Grace before she kills him. 

[EVS]

1 hour ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I saw an interview with Gracie after one of her disappointing Grand Prix performances her talking about struggling with her weight. I found it very sad because she was saying how figure skaters needed to be a certain size and she wasn't at that size. I wondered how much of that was really physical and how much was a self-image problem, that her body had changed and rather than working with the changes she felt she needed to fit a certain mold. I was disappointed to hear Tara and Johnny say Gracie's problems were all from last years worlds (and for Johnny to say 'get over it') when I think her struggles go beyond that.

I read that interview and felt the same way, especially because I was at Skate America this year and thought she looked beautiful, thin, and fit.  I can think of several former skaters who did not have the traditional or preferred size or build but still did well. Maybe Gracie was a little out of shape for her, but it wasn't noticeable to me and she certainly didn't stand out for her size. She did stand out to me because her long program costume in person was absolutely stunning on her, imo.  I don't think it looks as good on tv as it did in person. I do think Gracie's recent skating issues seem more mental/emotional than anything else and it makes me sad to see her struggling. 

Edited January 22, 2017 by EVS
Clarity

[selkie]

In discussions of how long a person should stick it out as a professional athlete, I feel like it comes down to two things:

1. Do you make a living wage at what you're doing?

2. Do you enjoy going to work in the morning a least 75% of the time?

Gracie probably still has the sponsorship deals in place to keep going on financially, even in high cost of living Southern California. But the enjoyment of work really seems to be missing with her. 

[annzeepark914]

I too am tired of the Gracie Gold saga.  Last night one of the commentators read a comment of GG's in which she said she believes she should've won Worlds, that she was "the best" at that event.  I don't know where she gets that from because artistically she isn't the best.  She has always been, IMO, a skater who may be technically great but she never connects with the audience, never conveys what her music is saying (story, mood, etc).  The expression on her face is either wooden or a big grin.  Karen, Ashley, Mariah, and Caroline know how to present the music's mood or story even though they also have to concentrate on completing those jumps and the footwork and spins to the best of their abilities.  It's a tough sport.

[redpencil]

I didn't think the quote was that she thought she should have won, but that she should have medalled at all. Though they were paraphrasing, so who knows.

I think my new favorite is Mariah. I really hope she can continue progressing and start making more noise internationally. Of the ladies I saw, I think she's the most aesthetically pleasing (not her costume, etc.--though it was lovely--but mostly her style on the ice). I really enjoyed watching her, and was glad that she took the bronze.

I'm really interested to see if they just go with the podium for the World's team, even though they don't have to. To me I think that makes the most sense this time, but who knows what they'll do.

Edited January 22, 2017 by redpencil

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

 I do think Gracie's recent skating issues seem more mental/emotional than anything else and it makes me sad to see her struggling. 

Yes.  On the other hand, she has no right to continually torture us year after year.  The poster who said she needs a new coach is correct:  she needs to go to Russia and work with Mishin, Plushenko's coach, or Oksana Baiul's coach.  

[azshadowwalker]

Watching some of these programs, and feeling like skaters who can't produce the dramatic moments shouldn't select such dramatic music. It's like the music is just on in the background. The men are especially egregious in this regard. 

Gracie doesn't really owe any viewer anything. She has the "right" to do whatever the hell she wants to. 

Edited January 22, 2017 by azshadowwalker

[HartofDixie]

That was fast.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/01/22/214115550

[EVS]

29 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Yes.  On the other hand, she has no right to continually torture us year after year.  The poster who said she needs a new coach is correct:  she needs to go to Russia and work with Mishin, Plushenko's coach, or Oksana Baiul's coach.  

They announced a few minutes ago, during the men's free skate, that Frank will no longer be her coach. 

Eta: Thanks for the link HartofDixie. I didn't see it when I first posted. 

Edited January 22, 2017 by EVS

[legaleagle53]

According to that article, Frank will be retiring from coaching after the 2018 Winter Olympics.  I hope that the many athletes and students he coached and inspired during his long career will have some sort of tribute performance planned for him.

[SophiaD]

Good, because I think that Gracie and Frank are terrible for each other.  I think she needs to find someone who can help her make it fun again.  She seems to be terribly hard on herself. 

Listening to the media coverage has been somewhat painful, especially Scott Hamilton's endless comments about how terribly she did at World's last year and what a disaster her season has been thing year and so on and on and on and on.  You never see the media piling on a male skater like that, with Jeremy Abbott as the possible exception, and he did stuff like that ALL OF THE TIME.  

Honestly, I think Michelle Kwan spoiled us - we got so used to having an elite lady who could compete for gold in every event she entered.  Or maybe Americans are just too used to our National Champion being able to challenge at the elite level and haven't really recognized that Russian and Japan, especially, are major players.  Winning the US Championship is a major event in its own right - not winning a world or Olympic medal shouldn't be a "disgrace," but it seems to be.  

Mariah Bell seems really charming.  Her skating and look reminded me a bit of a young Sasha Cohen.

And big congratulations to Karen Chen!  It must be great to have things come together at the right moment like that.  

[specialj67]

Only got to see the men's long so far--playing catch-up with the rest of the U.S. Champs coverage--and relieved to see Nathan Chen live up to expectations. I hope he can maintain the momentum and stay is good health. Happy to see Jason Brown deliver a quality skate--he will always be my fave even when there isn't a chance in hell he'll win.

Of the other men, Alexander Johnson was a real highlight for me. As evidenced my my comments above, I love a skater with quality skating skills and artistry, and his are lovely to watch. I know at this point in his career, it seems unlikely to see him much on on the international stage, but I hope he's in the mix at next year's nationals.

[carrier76]

Seeing Nathan Chen in person was really something special. Unbelievable. I am riding a streetcar through KC right now, so I will comment more later. :)

[iMonrey]

Personally I would have given the Gold to Ashley Wagner over Karen Chen. I just thought Ashley's performance level was far above Karen's. Both made minor errors on one jump, I thought technically they were fairly even. That said, Karen Chen skated beautifully so I don't begrudge her the win. 

Thrilled with Nathan Chen - hope to see him go far. 

[alexa]

I was reading a quote by Gracie in one of the articles and she was saying how she should get to go to the worlds because she is the best skater in the US or something like that?  By what standard does anyone call her the best?  She has never really delivered anything...I don't care what technical ability you have--if you don't actually use it when you need it, it really doesn't matter.  Just annoys me.  Commentators tend to say she is the best as well, but I just don't see it.

[Enero]

2 hours ago, SophiaD said:

Honestly, I think Michelle Kwan spoiled us - we got so used to having an elite lady who could compete for gold in every event she entered.

Not just Michelle, but Tara, Sasha, Sarah, Kristy, Nancy hell even Tonya. For decades the US ladies field has produced one phenom after another. Nearly all the ladies I named except one either were Olympic Champion or was an Olympic medalist.  How could fans not get spoiled by that, but it's been over 10 years since we had an Olympic medalist, and though Ashley Wagner was our last lady to be on the World podium (just last year I believe), and is great in her own right, she's not on the level of the ladies previously mentioned. Therefore our expectations as fans should be a little less demanding.

With regards to Gracie, I never thought she was all of that. She's gorgeous and she is a great technician, but she comes off as fake. Her programs IMHO looks like Michelle Kwan circa 2002. There's no originality there, even the music she uses often sounds like something Michelle would've skated to in her prime. There's no presence or authenticity to her movements. There's nothing about her programs that express who she is as a skater, an artist.  Thus, I think the move from Frank (and hopefully Lori Nichol) may be good for her. Maybe she'll be able to discover who she is as a skater and an artist and bring that to the ice.

8 hours ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I was disappointed to hear Tara and Johnny say Gracie's problems were all from last years worlds (and for Johnny to say 'get over it') when I think her struggles go beyond that.

I was with Johnny on this. From what I've read, everyone around Gracie (including Frank Carroll) are saying she's still sulking over missing the podium at Worlds last year and is very depressed about what happened. Well its time, far past time, for her to move on from that loss. It happened. Now she needs to put on her big girl tights and get over it. If that means getting intensive therapy, doing a complete 180 with her training etc. then she needs to do it. Loss (many times heartbreaking) and disappointment is unfortunately apart of competition ask any one of the ladies I mentioned earlier in my post, but you suck it up, find a way to get over it and come back stronger. 

Edited January 23, 2017 by Enero

[redpencil]

Speechless after watching Nathan Chen. Wow...just wow. It's amazing how much he's improved in even just one year (and he was dang good last year). And that's with being off the ice for months! But no problem, he still adds new jumps. LOL. He already has pretty darn good artistry, but can still improve there. With how easy he makes those quads look (like Tara I think it was says, he doesn't just "get through them"), it just adds to the overall program. He's the whole package.

I think Vincent Zhou has a lot of potential, too. He's clearly behind Nathan Chen, but still has a bright future, I think.

[Minneapple]

2 hours ago, Enero said:

With regards to Gracie, I never thought she was all of that. She's gorgeous and she is a great technician, but she comes off as fake. Her programs IMHO looks like Michelle Kwan circa 2002. There's no originality there, even the music she uses often sounds like something Michelle would've skated to in her prime. There's no presence or authenticity to her movements. There's nothing about her programs that express who she is as a skater, an artist.  Thus, I think the move from Frank (and hopefully Lori Nichol) may be good for her. Maybe she'll be able to discover who she is as a skater and an artist and bring that to the ice.

I agree. Plus she looks so cautious and tentative, like she's just praying "don't fall, don't fall, don't fall, single this jump so you don't fall." I'm not a fan of the "smile, it makes you look pretty" sentiment, but wow, she looks miserable. That can't help her skating.

I was also thinking about how long it's been since the US produced a women's world champion or an Olympic champion. Was Sarah Hughes the last? Jeez. Do any of these current skaters have a chance at the Olympic podium next year? 

[redpencil]

Apparently Nathan Chen trolled the audience during the gala:

Hahaha. Smart, Nathan. Very smart. No injuries this time.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 12/23/2014 at 9:14 AM, Shades of Red said:

As for G&G, well they had both the artistic and technical (for their time).  Of course I will say as an audience member I always felt they were skating for each other and not for the audience.  It was beautiful, but I always felt like an outsider viewing their programs.

This is from forever ago but I was rereading the thread and came across it--I have to say this is one of the most insightful comments I've ever read about figure skating. I had never considered that aspect of G&G's skating but there is a lot of truth to that. Of course, that also begs the question--is that why we loved and responded to their skating so much? Because it wasn't performative it was--authentic or titillating, pick your term? Regardless, brilliant comment.

13 hours ago, alexa said:

I like Ashley.  I like her determination and fight, and I like some of her programs quite a bit.  Karen did really well however so I have no issue with her win.  I appreciate that Ashley doesn't give up, and she is very supportive of her competitors.  She has been a help to the US and its placements, and finally won a world medal at a time in which that is really hard to do, so I have respect what she has accomplished.

I LOVED her free skate. I thought Ashley's artistry reached a new level--I am not as crazy about the showier, dramatic Samson & Delilah/Moulin Rouge-types routines but this I thought was thoughtful, lyrical, and lovely. Loved it.

Mirai looked absolutely devastated after her program. Really wanted to see that 3A.

Grace and Frank are better off without each other. He is a legendary coach who should probably walk away from a frustrating skater, and she needs someone else.