Figure Skating

[iMonrey]

12 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Go Amber! I'm so happy she's finally a national champion. 

I gasped audibly when she doubled the lutz. Prior to that moment I honestly thought she was finally going to have that magical skate. Then when she popped I was so bummed. I thought Isabeau had it in the bag. 

Amber always blows it. Always. I was surprised she managed to even rank 1st after the FS. Her technical score was lower than Lee's. If Isabeau hadn't totally tanked under pressure she wouldn't have won. So weird. The SP was sort of a splatfest but we saw some really good skating in the FS until the final two. 

Are Josephine Lee and Soho Lee related? They have the same last name and are both from Irvine.

I'm a broken record on how sick I am of Jason Brown. I LOL'd when he fell on his 3x. 

[Mirabelle]

I think if Josephine and Soho were related NBC would have mentioned it every five minutes and brought up other instances of relatives competing in the same competition in the same discipline. The only pair that comes to mind for me are the Kwans and that was 30 years ago. 

Edited January 27 by Mirabelle

[Maelstrom]

On 1/26/2024 at 9:56 AM, annzeepark914 said:

This is it. During the Olympics, there's more participation...but not much more.

17 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

I'm trying to watch women's senior LP but first...hey! it's moved to NBC (& not on USA).  Don't we love scrambling to watch our favorite sport. And now that I'm on NBC? It's just repeats from yesterday.

Hmm, I wonder if there could be any connection between NBC's hide-and-seek coverage and the lack of conversation here... 🧐

It took a lot of work, but I think I've finally gotten my DVR to automatically record every block of figure skating that airs on NBC, E, and USA (hopefully I didn't just jinx myself like Tara by saying so) by setting it to record all new on all three channels... and then I check upcoming recordings and make sure everything that should record is actually set to do so. But the average casual viewer is not going to go to so much work... good job, NBC.🤬

And I haven't watched yet, but... yay Amber!!

[annzeepark914]

Whew! So glad Chock & Bates had a safe free dance.  He looked ill as they were leaving the ice. Good thing they had that big cushion from the RD.  What I'm wondering about is why Charlie White (whose programs with Davis were so exciting, creative, audience-pleasing & memorable) sent two teams with, IMO, dreary programs to Nationals: Wolfkostin/Tsarevski  and Green/Parsons.  I think Johnny said the cello music in G/P's FD sounded like something you'd hear at a gift store.  To me, it sounded funereal. 

[Salacious Kitty]

Now the debate begins. Do they send Bratti/Somerville to Worlds, or will they pull the BOW card and send Green/Parsons? 

I hope Madi and Evan skip 4CC. Don't they leave tomorrow or Monday for China? They could infect everyone on the plane. 

[TwoBitUsherette]

I hope they send Bratti/Somerville to Worlds so that Green/Parsons can use that time to pack their bags and find a coaching team that understands them.

They've had two underwhelming seasons now with MIDA. Do they really want to risk another with the Olympics only two years away? Caroline is young, but Michael turns 30 next year. Who knows how long he wants to continue.

[Salacious Kitty]

Well, if Hawayek/Baker retire, there's an open spot at IAM. 

[CeeBeeGee]

On 1/25/2020 at 1:57 AM, honeywest said:

I telepathically ordered Mariah not to fuck up the free skate, and she obeyed me!

 

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Amber always blows it. Always. I was surprised she managed to even rank 1st after the FS. Her technical score was lower than Lee's. If Isabeau hadn't totally tanked under pressure she wouldn't have won. So weird. The SP was sort of a splatfest but we saw some really good skating in the FS until the final two.

 

@honeywest can you do your magic on Amber at Worlds? Because @iMonrey has a point.

 

ETA: Forgot to mention Mia Kalin's clean quad! Good for her! Carved out a little history for herself.

Edited January 28 by CeeBeeGee

[honeywest]

I’m working on it!

[Frost]

Argh!  The women keep falling in the pairs free skate!  It's aggravating that it's always the women.  Should they keep jumps to doubles?  Just physically, the men are going to have an advantage on the jumping.  So quit pushing triples that the female skaters can't do. 

To me, so much of pairs skating is the interaction between the skaters ,the lifts, and throws.  So expecting difficult individual jumps as well seems like overkill.

[specialj67]

That third spot for the U.S. ice dance world team is going to be interesting. I think if Green and Parsons had better material, they might have a stronger case. I feel like they and Bratti/Somerville would place similarly, somewhere around 10-12th.

My fave free dance of this event was Flores and Desyatov—so much energy and commitment to the program! I’m really looking forward to seeing how they do in the coming years.

[Jillibean]

Wow, Evan looked truly ill. I'm relieved that they managed to pull through safely. That lift could have gone horribly wrong. 

I was sad to hear them say this could potentially be their last Nationals. I'll miss Madi and Evan greatly when they step away from the sport. 

[Avaleigh]

37 minutes ago, Frost said:

Argh!  The women keep falling in the pairs free skate!  It's aggravating that it's always the women.  Should they keep jumps to doubles?  Just physically, the men are going to have an advantage on the jumping.  So quit pushing triples that the female skaters can't do. 

Pairs skaters have been able to do side by side triples since the late 80s and early 90s. Yes, side by side triples are a challenging element, but many teams complete them successfully. Too many to list. 

Also, this isn't a male female issue. Consider when Aliona Savchenko was with Robin Szolkowy. He fell on their side by side triples at two different Olympics while she landed hers. There are other examples of women hitting their jumps while the men make mistakes. Mistakes happen, there's nothing to suggest that side by side triples are too difficult for most women to perform. 

I also don't like the idea of making an element easier on the grounds that the women supposedly aren't strong enough to handle it. 

US pairs might not be in a great place right now, but it'll eventually get better. It just takes one strong team to light a fire that inspires others.

[iMonrey]

Mokhova and Mokhov - brother and sister - why do they have different last names? Is it a Russian thing? Like if you're a girl you're Mokhova and if you're a boy you're Mokhov?

Pairs was a splatfest. Not sure I think O'Shea and Kamp deserved the win with that skate. What happened to Danny's previous winning partner Tarah Kayne? 

For those in the know . . . how do they determine what the "levels" are? At first I thought a 4 level in spins was if they did 4 different changes of position but apparently that's not the case. And what determines a level 3 or 4 in step sequences?

[CeeBeeGee]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

Mokhova and Mokhov - brother and sister - why do they have different last names? Is it a Russian thing? Like if you're a girl you're Mokhova and if you're a boy you're Mokhov?

Yes, exactly. Russians have gendered last and middle names. Like if Trusova had a brother, his last name would be Trusov. Correctly (Russianly), Nastia Liukin's last name should be Liukina but they Anglicized it. 

Typically their middle name translates to "son of [dad's first name + daughter/son of]" So Nastia's middle name is Valerievna [daughter of Valeri]. Had she been a boy, her last name would've been "Valerievich [son of Valeri]." 

Russian names--along with many others--are very gendered.

[Mirabelle]

Ilia Malinin has his mother's family name but his is the male form of it instead of Malinina. According to Google, his sister's last name is Malinina. I can think of a few more examples of women of Slavic heritage whose last name is not the femininized version of their fathers - Angela Nikodinov and Nina Dobrev come to mind. On the other hand, Katia Gordeeva's daughters' last names are Grinkova and Kulik so I think it comes down to preference. I do think it'd be a bit easier bureaucratically for a parent/child to have their surname spelled the same. 

Edited January 28 by Mirabelle

[annzeepark914]

Ilia has said that he took his mother's last name (Malenina) as it's easier to pronounce than his father's last name (Skorniakov). I read that somewhere online 😊.

Edited January 28 by annzeepark914

[Salacious Kitty]

14 hours ago, Mirabelle said:

Ilia Malinin has his mother's family name but his is the male form of it instead of Malinina. According to Google, his sister's last name is Malinina. I can think of a few more examples of women of Slavic heritage whose last name is not the femininized version of their fathers - Angela Nikodinov and Nina Dobrev come to mind. On the other hand, Katia Gordeeva's daughters' last names are Grinkova and Kulik so I think it comes down to preference. I do think it'd be a bit easier bureaucratically for a parent/child to have their surname spelled the same. 

Speaking of Nastia Liukin, her name is a nickname for Anastasia. In Russia, your name only has one nickname. 

Alexander/dra are Sasha. Mikhail is Misha, etc. 

Edited January 28 by Salacious Kitty

[anniebird]

On 1/27/2024 at 11:53 AM, iMonrey said:

 

I'm a broken record on how sick I am of Jason Brown. I LOL'd when he fell on his 3x. 

I agree - he is a beautiful, lyric skater but all he's doing now is taking up space in competitions that he will never win. At this point, it feels like pure ego. He needs to go into exhibition skating (or whatever it's called) where he can shine.

Edited January 28 by anniebird

[annzeepark914]

I'm not sick of Jason Brown, but I've never been a fan of athletes hanging around forever. I hope he'll retire before the Olympics. Part of the "problem" is that there's not much in the way of show skating here any more. I really enjoyed Champions on Ice, a mixture of skating pro's, along with some amateurs mixed in (who would skate their current competitive programs). I believe Jason gets invited to shows overseas but others don't.

[justmehere]

46 minutes ago, anniebird said:

... all he's doing now is taking up space in competitions that he will never win. At this point, it feels like pure ego.

Opinions obviously vary, but I don't understand this comment. First, I'm not sure how he's taking up space; he skates and earns his level like anyone else. The fact that he finished top 5 at Worlds last year, even without quads, is testament to his quality. (Ilia - with his quads - was only 2 places higher; Andrew Torgashev was 21st. Jason also earned silver at Nationals last year and this, and he was 6th at the '22 Olympics; still very impressive.) 

He's trying something different by not competing in the Grand Prix series (during which he is doing shows) and joining later. How long he will be successful with that remains to be seen, but the other U.S. men tend to be inconsistent, and so far - other than Ilia with his high tech score - they haven't bettered him. Jason does occasionally make mistakes, but he's generally more consistent than others. There's also the fact that his high placements earn future spots at Worlds (and the Olympics, I believe). He may take one of those spots, but if others don't place as well internationally, the U.S. would lose the spot (or spots?) anyway. --He is also still extremely popular. 

Given his popularity, his excellent skating, and what he gives to the sport (pushing artistic excellence), it's not ego keeping him in. Plenty of people (myself included) are grateful that he continues to compete, even if on a limited basis. Few people can get to shows, and this is the only way to continue enjoying his beautiful performances.

(I will admit I wasn't as much a fan of his programs this season as I was of the last couple of seasons, so I was glad he went back to his Impossible Dream for the free skate today.)

No one is compelled to like any particular skater, no matter how highly acclaimed or enjoyed by others, but saying that he shouldn't compete for the reasons stated doesn't make sense to me. (Same for "hanging around forever.") If he's doing well and wants to continue, more power to him. 

[Salacious Kitty]

I love Jason, but I can admit he was gifted in scoring today. So was Ilia, for that matter. His PCS was ridiculous. 

[CheshireCat]

19 hours ago, iMonrey said:

For those in the know . . . how do they determine what the "levels" are? At first I thought a 4 level in spins was if they did 4 different changes of position but apparently that's not the case. And what determines a level 3 or 4 in step sequences?

Short answer: the rule book 🙂

The difficulty levels are determined by a combination of things. As far as I know, for spins depends on the spin position themselves (there are positions in which it is more difficult to maintain speed/rotation of a spin than others), how well speed is maintained, how many rotations there are and how many changes of position are included.

For step sequences, it's the steps that are involved (like with spin positions, some steps make it easier to maintain or gain speed than others), depth of edge (at least for ice dance, I'm not sure about pairs and singles), change of direction and, I believe, change of height level, too. I'm not sure but I think if you include a step where you drop low on one knee then get back up and continue as if you never dropped down it raises the level. Kind of like the jumps that some skaters do after they've dropped down to one knee.
For ice dance, how close two skaters are matters as well. Same for twizzles, by the way. The closer they skate together, the more difficult it is. And I think dance holds factor into it as well.

I don't know if speed is a factor nowadays, too. I remember back when they first started with the new judging system, it didn't matter how fast you executed the step sequence. If the sequence was complex enough, you'd get the difficulty level (which led to some very slow step sequences).

I may be missing some thing but I think that's generally it.

[absnow54]

43 minutes ago, justmehere said:

There's also the fact that his high placements earn future spots at Worlds (and the Olympics, I believe). He may take one of those spots, but if others don't place as well internationally, the U.S. would lose the spot (or spots?) anyway. --He is also still extremely popular. 

I agree. He sits out the Grand Prix and 4c, which is where skaters can gain international experience. The men’s field is too inconsistent, and Ilia can’t carry US figure skating on his own. Unless someone like Vincent Zhou comes back next season, they’ll need Jason Brown to lock in Olympic slots next year too. 

Edited January 29 by absnow54

[Salacious Kitty]

Agreed. He may be technically deficient, but the international judges love him as much as the domestic ones.

[specialj67]

Re: Jason Brown continuing to compete, who’s to say that USFSA didn’t approach him and ask him to keep competing? Not saying they did, but they know he’s still beloved and would be a crowd fave in any event he’s in. And as others upthread said, he’s still more reliable than most of the other competitive U.S. men. They can reasonably count on him to place in the top 10 at a world championship.

[annzeepark914]

I just read at Golden Skate that (according to TSL) Chock & Bates have withdrawn from 4CC.  Zingas/Kolesnik are taking their place.  

Edited January 29 by annzeepark914

[SweetSable]

Kamila Valieva has been banned for 4 years over doping and her 2022 Olympic results have been disqualified. 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/29/sport/kamila-valieva-russia-skating-cas-ruling-spt-intl/index.html

 

[annzeepark914]

Kamila received a 4 year ban on competing (but it's retroactive to 12/2021 so she'd be able to compete in 2026).

Edited January 29 by annzeepark914

[absnow54]

27 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Kamila received a 4 year ban on competing (but it's retroactive to 12/2021 so she'd be able to compete in 2026).

She’ll be too old to compete for Russia in 2026 anyway. 19 is ancient for a Russian female skater. 

Now we’ll see if the IOC follows existing precedents of disqualifying the team results and reallocating medals…

[selkie]

That’s a longer ban than you’d normally see for a first time opting offense by a minor. I think there’s a certain amount of Sending A Message to the Russians going on. 

Hopefully we’ll finally get a nice medal ceremony for the 2022 Olympic team awards at Worlds this year. 

As for Jason Brown, I feel like as long as a professional athlete still enjoys going to work in the morning and is making enough money to cover their expenses, then hey, go forth and keep competing. 

[Minneapple]

I never post here but I’m pouring one out for all of us from the Beijing Olympics forum who screeched with anger when Kamila was allowed to skate. Justice for Team USA.

[iMonrey]

16 hours ago, justmehere said:

There's also the fact that his high placements earn future spots at Worlds (and the Olympics, I believe). He may take one of those spots, but if others don't place as well internationally, the U.S. would lose the spot (or spots?) anyway.

This is a real Catch-22 though. We need Jason to earn that extra spot at Worlds. Which then goes to . . . Jason. So it's two guys and Jason. If we didn't have Jason we'd just have two guys. Which I'd be fine with.

For me, the fun of watching figure skating is seeing the skaters grow and improve. Jason hasn't grown or improved in a decade. He's always doing the same-old same-old. You can watch any of his programs over the last six years and they all look the same. It's always some overly melodramatic ballad and a lot of flourishing and everyone ooh-ing and aah-ing over his artistry. Yes, he's lithe and has an arched back and skates like a ballet dancer. Trouble is, this isn't ballet. You wanna watch ballet then go watch ballet. 

Plus I can't remember the last time he did something upbeat and fun, it's always some weepy ballad. And I'm sure it's because he knows he has to wring the melodrama out of the number to get those component scores. Johnny rightly pointed out he had several under-rotated jumps, and he didn't even get a deduction for the hand down. It's time the judges stopped rewarding him for just showing up with the same old number every year. 

[SweetSable]

What in the heck was that pairs competition I watched at the U.S. Championships?  I hadn't realized that pairs skating was a dying art in the U.S.  

Am I correct that how the teams do at the World Championships this year determine how many teams we can send next year?

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, SweetSable said:

What in the heck was that pairs competition I watched at the U.S. Championships?  I hadn't realized that pairs skating was a dying art in the U.S.  

Am I correct that how the teams do at the World Championships this year determine how many teams we can send next year?

It was shocking to see how thin our pairs competition/program has become. Some teams were competing at senior level who really didn't belong there. Watching the lifts scared the hell out of me at times.  I think the placements' total # determines how many teams a country can send to the next Worlds. 

[ChicksDigScars]

On 1/27/2024 at 10:27 PM, Jillibean said:

Wow, Evan looked truly ill. I'm relieved that they managed to pull through safely. That lift could have gone horribly wrong. 

I was sad to hear them say this could potentially be their last Nationals. I'll miss Madi and Evan greatly when they step away from the sport. 

It's sad that Ice Dancing is so political that a pair feel they HAVE to skate when so obviously ill, or lose some clout going into World's. If C/B didn't win Nationals, would the international judges move them down below the Italians and Canadians, like they're a ranked college football team with a BYE week who sat home eating cheeseburgers while everyone else played? Good grief. Evan looked soo miserable. When they finished and he leaned into Madi, he was flushed and sweating profusely, not to mention panting like crazy. I thought he was going to pass out right there on the ice. And yet, Patrice still hugged him in the kiss and cry. I'd be like, "Nice job, let's fist bump. Where's the Purel?" Carreira and Ponomarenko won the free dance. Love to see that. Anthony's reaction when the scores went up was so sweet. 

Well, it was nice having a strong pairs team for a couple of years. Now we're back to a splat fest. We seriously have to send three of these teams to World's? Can we give one of those spots to the ice dancers, or the ladies? Save a spot for next year? Yikes. I'd have a hard time imaging any of them qualifying for the long program at World's.

[justmehere]

Jason received an award for his contributions to skating. It has only been given a couple of times in the past. Video of the ceremony (taken by his choreographer):

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2qou7JLT0N/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D

On 1/29/2024 at 9:40 AM, iMonrey said:

I can't remember the last time he did something upbeat and fun

Sinnerman.

There are others. 

[absnow54]

I can’t believe the forums went down the DAY the team medal drama was “resolved.” I missed you all something fierce! 

[ML89]

I just have to say this somewhere, but when Johnny Weir was calling Brown & Brown and said "I don't know what Eric Carmen and Rachmaninoff have in common" or however he phrased it, I wanted to leap through the screen. "All By Myself" is based on Rachmaninoff 2d, is no one in the research department old enough to have listened to Casey Kasem? He brought that up on American Top 40!

Anyway, I loved that they finally put that Terry was a national champ in the commentary graphic and it was so cute that Terry was touched.

On the medal drama, I cannot with the ISU. I just cannot. The US should have bolted back in the day when they tried the World Skating Federation back in '03.

 

[NUguy514]

While I'm thrilled for Teams USA and Japan finally to have the gold and silver medals they should always have had, it is so mindbogglingly on brand that the ISU just subtracted Valieva's team points, allowing Russia to hang on for bronze and denying Team Canada their rightful bronze.

Some of this might fall on Skate Canada, though, which hadn't really done a single thing in all of this to ensure justice was served, and there's a part of me that thinks Skate Canada was just hoping to hide behind the US and let the USFS be the heavy and ruffle all the feathers. They'd get the reward without any blowback from judges or the ISU or whatever, so I'm glad they're stepping up and doing something because just subtracting Valieva's points from Russia's total without adjusting everyone else's score is bullshit and so perfectly ISU in the way they always kowtow to Russia.

[Salacious Kitty]

I bet they end up giving both Canada and Russia bronze medals. 

What a mess the ISU created.

[iMonrey]

Did anyone watch the exhibition performances from Nationals? How do they choose who to invite? We had skaters who placed 10th (!) at the gala but we never got to see Camden who placed 3rd! A lot of sixth and fifth placed finishers too. Back in my day (ahem) they showed the top three finishers in each discipline and that was that. So random, so weird.

[MaryMitch]

Why does Johnny keep describing the quad axel as the "most difficult jump by any human being"?  That annoys me no end.

[Maelstrom]

Because Johnny excels at being annoying.

I had to laugh during the gala when Johnny name-checked himself as inventing the "Johnny Weir slide", and Terry responded, "Never heard of him." 😁

[annzeepark914]

31 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Because Johnny excels at being annoying.

I had to laugh during the gala when Johnny name-checked himself as inventing the "Johnny Weir slide", and Terry responded, "Never heard of him." 😁

God bless that wonderful Terry Gannon! Figure skating is so fortunate to have this talented (former ACC basketball star) man in the booth at competitions. & hey, somebody's gotta keep those two yakkers (Tara & Weir) in check & Terry does this very well. 

[Maelstrom]

I so appreciate that Terry does his research on the sport he’s covering, and knows when to defer to those with more experience - and he doesn’t feel the need to fill every second of air with inane chatter like some I could name 🙄

[annzeepark914]

We were in Raleigh when NC State won the '83 NCAA. Next thing I knew, Terry was featured on a PSA for the local humane society. I recall being so impressed that he gave his time to focus attention on animals in our midst (who certainly needed some attention!)  I think the world of him.

[CeeBeeGee]

7 hours ago, absnow54 said:

I can’t believe the forums went down the DAY the team medal drama was “resolved.” I missed you all something fierce! 

Right?! I was like--of ALL the days for the forums to go down! The FS board would be humming! I was starting to teach a Parent & Me class and I got the news alert and I had the biggest grin on my face!

[redpencil]

11 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Some of this might fall on Skate Canada, though, which hadn't really done a single thing in all of this to ensure justice was served, and there's a part of me that thinks Skate Canada was just hoping to hide behind the US and let the USFS be the heavy and ruffle all the feathers. They'd get the reward without any blowback from judges or the ISU or whatever, so I'm glad they're stepping up and doing something because just subtracting Valieva's points from Russia's total without adjusting everyone else's score is bullshit and so perfectly ISU in the way they always kowtow to Russia.

Yeah, Valieva is essentially still holding on to 2 points the way they went about this, which makes zero sense. I'm fine with not disqualifying the entire Russian team, and if you removed her points, moved the other ladies up, and they still had enough for the bronze, so be it. But the route they took is total nonsense.

[annzeepark914]

14 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Did anyone watch the exhibition performances from Nationals? How do they choose who to invite? We had skaters who placed 10th (!) at the gala but we never got to see Camden who placed 3rd! A lot of sixth and fifth placed finishers too. Back in my day (ahem) they showed the top three finishers in each discipline and that was that. So random, so weird.

Chock & Bates were ill. C/P and G/P were on their way to 4CC as were the pairs podium teams. They said that Flores/Desyatov created their exhibition program the night before as they never expected to be a part of the gala.