Figure Skating

[honeywest]

Nathan Chen in fourth (behind Vincent Zhou, Shoma Uno, and Jimmy Ma) after the short.

Edited October 23, 2021 by honeywest

[Domenicholas]

NBC reporters: "Nathan will never forget his disaster at the 2018 Olympics!"

Me: "God knows NBC won't."

[ChicksDigScars]

Jesus. WIll NBC not learn from the whole Biles situation? Nathan is the closest thing to Simone, as far as NBC sticking their cameras in their personal space and acting like the Gold is a forgone conclusion. There's a guy in Japan, whose name I hate to bring up because I chose to follow the Figure Skating topic on Twitter and all it is is daily gushing from the Fanyu's. It's nauseating. It makes me root against the skater. 

 

But anyway, NBC. STOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPPP IT.

[MaryMitch]

Did the scoring change? In the Technical score display, now they are showing the "max score" for each element, instead of the base score.  I prefer seeing the base score. (When I can see them; the numbers are so small that I can hardly read them.)

[KittenPokerCheater]

I hate how NBC keeps forgetting that it's a competition not a coronation.  They did this with Biles and now they are doing it with Nathan.

Thus said, I don't know why he's using Nemesis again.

Vincent gave such a great performance.  He deserves to be in first.

The French Skater- I don't know why he was pressured to skate.  The poor guy....he's skating with a groin injury???

The pair that skated to Come Together was magnetic.  I feel like they should have been placed higher.  Technically the Russians are great skaters, but I find their programs boring  boring boring.

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

Did the scoring change? In the Technical score display, now they are showing the "max score" for each element, instead of the base score.  I prefer seeing the base score. (When I can see them; the numbers are so small that I can hardly read them.)

I wondered about that, too. Also, does anyone know what the 'R' that was beside some of the element scores meant?

[annzeepark914]

Starr's recording of "At Last" was pretty damn good! It was one of the very few pieces of music I enjoyed and it wasn't distorted by the arena's acoustics (like most of the vocals). Re: today's RD ?  I think I enjoyed Smart/Diaz the most, just based on the music and their skating to it. What was Chock/Bate's RD  supposed to be about? And Hubbell/Donahue's??   

Edited October 23, 2021 by annzeepark914

[Omeletsmom]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I wondered about that, too. Also, does anyone know what the 'R' that was beside some of the element scores meant?

They did say that they had changed it at the beginning of the broadcast. I prefer the old version.

The R means the element is under review.

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

Re: today's RD ?  I think I enjoyed Smart/Diaz the most, just based on the music and their skating to it. What was Chock/Bate's RD  supposed to be about? And Hubbell/Donahue's??   

I don't know what Chock and Bates's program is about but I loved it and am here for it. Bummed that they were placed behind H/D.

I always hope for the best for Starr and was optimistic that she'd take advantage of this opportunity with Bradie being out, but she just hasn't improved over the past four years. If anything there's been a noticeable decline in her skating. 

Amber is another one where I feel like she really missed an opportunity. This is where she should have tried the triple axel unless she's back to not having it.

Kseniia is a little slow and the jump technique isn't great, but there's still something very pleasing about her skating so I hope to see more of her.

Daria was the best of the ladies tonight. I would definitely have placed her ahead of Sasha.

I love Shoma and am really rooting for him to win it. 

[emmawoodhouse]

Amber said she was "spooked" in the warm-up, and as a result didn't try the 3A. That obviously translated to the 2A in the actual program. 

Nice comeback by K/F in the free skate, but ugh, I loathe Fix You.

[honeywest]

Kevin Aymoz has withdrawn.

[emmawoodhouse]

15 minutes ago, honeywest said:

Kevin Aymoz has withdrawn.

He never should have been out there last night. That was torture to watch. 😥

[Jeddah]

I’m so happy for Vincent! I hope he can keep this up all season. I am going to be so torn all season because there are so many skaters I love skating right now. I just want everyone to do well!

I just roll my eyes every time they say Guaranteed Rate Skate America. Such a stupid name.

[honeywest]

Can Tara Lipinski’s family matters keep her occupied for the rest of the season? (Although I would have liked to see her head explode when Nathan ended up more than 25 points behind Vincent.)

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, honeywest said:

Can Tara Lipinski’s family matters keep her occupied for the rest of the season? (Although I would have liked to see her head explode when Nathan ended up more than 25 points behind Vincent.)

She says she'll be back for Skate Canada next week. For the sake of her and her family, I hope whatever happened isn't too serious. 

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, Omeletsmom said:

They did say that they had changed it at the beginning of the broadcast.

Ah, I fast forward everything but the skates so I missed this. Thanks for the info about the 'R.'

[lurkerbee]

15 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

I think I enjoyed Smart/Diaz the most, just based on the music and their skating to it. 

I love "Proud Mary" and loved their RD, specifically because they used one piece of (great) music throughout. No matter who won the rhythm dance, theirs is the one I want to go back and watch again.

[displayname]

14 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Daria was the best of the ladies tonight. I would definitely have placed her ahead of Sasha.

Daria was great (I've been a fan since we watched her at Junior Worlds 2020) - would have placed her second behind Yelim Kim, though.

[ML89]

15 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Starr's recording of "At Last" was pretty damn good!

I just wondered - did she take the Etta James version and strip the vocal out because it was the exact arrangement. She can sing, though. She needs someone to elevate the rest of her skating - her spins are good and she can perform. She's almost there.

14 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I don't know what Chock and Bates's program is about but I loved it and am here for it. Bummed that they were placed behind H/D.

I really liked the Billie Ellish (and the costuming was great!) and I loved the George Michael medley from the Canadian team - the switch from 'I want your sex' (while never having him actually sing it) into "Freedom 90" was some terrific mixing.

H/D's Janet Jackson needed a new costume for H and the first half was just strange. Nasty was the wrong song for Blues - Escapade would have flowed better. The best part is the Rhythm Nation at the end - that rocked. The rest needs a rethink.

And so does Nathan's short program - that is a mess. He needs to bring back Aznavour.

14 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Daria was the best of the ladies tonight. I would definitely have placed her ahead of Sasha.

Daria was terrific and usually the Russian ladies bore me. She reminds me of Caryn Kadavy for some reason.

Edited October 24, 2021 by ML89

[Tippi]

I don't like the new scoring display either.  Now I can't tell how much the GOE is on each element and whether the judges are playing with that. 

It looks like Vincent has caught up with Nathan.  Nathan really has some work to do.  Vincent has already competed out of the country two or three times I think, these were Nathan's programs debuts.  Vincent's programs are a lot more audience friendly than Nathan's.  I wish he had left Nemesis out altogether, it sure seems like tempting fate to me.

 

[ML89]

4 minutes ago, Tippi said:

Vincent's programs are a lot more audience friendly than Nathan's.

Definitely, and I say that even though every time the Josh Groban "Vincent" starts up I think "he should have used Don McLean." 

[irisheyes]

9 hours ago, honeywest said:

Can Tara Lipinski’s family matters keep her occupied for the rest of the season? (Although I would have liked to see her head explode when Nathan ended up more than 25 points behind Vincent.)

I watched a little bit of Skate America (and recorded the rest), and I liked Johnny by himself. Gave a little inside info on the skater at the beginning and only talked during the program if it was necessary (ie, this is an element they’ve struggled with or something brand new).  Otherwise, silence. It was nice. 
Again, I only watched a little bit, so it may have gotten worse later on. 

[honeywest]

 

50 minutes ago, ML89 said:

 

Daria was terrific and usually the Russian ladies bore me. She reminds me of Caryn Kadavy for some reason.

Thank you! I knew she reminded me of someone.

[ML89]

1 hour ago, irisheyes said:

watched a little bit of Skate America (and recorded the rest), and I liked Johnny by himself. Gave a little inside info on the skater at the beginning and only talked during the program if it was necessary (ie, this is an element they’ve struggled with or something brand new).  Otherwise, silence. It was nice. 

I think Johnny and Tara together get too inside and compete with each other, while with just Terry, Johnny can be informative and Terry just tees up what he needs to say, like Terry does with Tanith (or Faldo or Rankin on golf).  I think there must be a new producer or they finally are realizing they don’t have to fill every silence. Also the arena music was cranked and it seemed harder to talk over. 
 

1 hour ago, honeywest said:

Thank you! I knew she reminded me of someone.

I’m glad it’s not just me! She vaguely looks like her plus she has a similar beautiful flow over the ice. 

[Jillibean]

I'm happy for Vincent. I'm worried that Nathan's Olympics anxiety is now extending to the entire Olympics season. I hope someone is helping him get his head together. Vincent looked really confident and prepared, and it made a huge difference.

If Knierim and Frazier can get those side by side jumps happening, they have beautiful programs. Those falls really interrupt the flow, and when they can land the jumps, the programs really float. They can't compete with those top teams, but they could make a difference for the US in the team event if they could skate cleanly.

I love Chock and Bates. But I worry their program is very understated compared to H/D, who are really out there and energetic. While our personal preferences might be for their subtlety, the judges have never rewarded that over the big over the top drama on ice.  I think it was clear that while she tried not to say it, Tanith thinks H/D have the better vehicle for their RD. I haven't seen H/D's free, but Chock and Bates' alien thing worries me also. It's just a bit...out there. I'm not confident, in an Olympic year, that these were the right programs for them. I'll be interested to see how the FDs score today.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I'm gobsmacked at Nathan's performance.  And I never predicted that Vincent would win!  Congratulations for his amazing skates and well deserved win.

Johnny is more tolerable without Tara.  Does anyone know what happened to her and her family?  Hope they are okay.

Hope Chock/Bates can eek out a win today.

[honeywest]

Quote

Quote

Chock and Bates’ alien thing worries me also. 

 

If they couldn’t beat Hubbell and Donohue with their snake program, I don’t think they can beat them with this.

I would have put Smart and Diaz ahead of Fournier Beaudry and Sorensen.

Edited October 24, 2021 by honeywest

[emmawoodhouse]

I think Smart/Diaz did beat FB/S in the free dance. And that was correct.

[Lady Whistleup]

I like Chock and Bates but I hate their FD. It just doesnt show off any of their special qualities.

I'm getting serious Simone Biles vibes from NBC's coverage of Nathan Chen. "He's still the king." Ugh. The pressure on Nathan has to be overwhelming.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

The pressure on Nathan has to be overwhelming.

Not really.  The Olympics are not what they used to be.  If it wasn't for Simone's issues, the Summer Olympics would have passed with barely a blip.  I don't know anyone who actually watched them outside of fans dedicated to specific sports.  They are no longer Must-See TV. 

As for the Winter Olympics, few people even know they will be on this February. And men's figure skating was NEVER as popular as women's skating. The best he can hope for after winning is Dancing with the Stars and a tour in Japan.  

Hopefully, he can get his head together.  If not, there are plenty of others waiting in the wings. In any case, he has a full life ahead of him.  

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, ML89 said:

Also the arena music was cranked and it seemed harder to talk over. 

I couldn't hear any of the commentary at all. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing lol.

2 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I'm getting serious Simone Biles vibes from NBC's coverage of Nathan Chen. "He's still the king." Ugh. The pressure on Nathan has to be overwhelming.

Yea, it's feeling very similar.

[healthnut]

I enjoy the no commentary on Peacock and the tech box was normal there. My thoughts from the weekend:

Pairs - B/K: horrible music, Swan Lake and Malagueña, I’m sick of those songs already after one Grand Prix. Alexa & Brandon have much better connection this season and I like their programs. That being said, Jessica & Brian have superior skills but I don’t think their SBS jumps will ever be consistent enough to contend. Danny & Chelsea also have really nice elements, gorgeous twist and lifts, but again SBS jumps are a disaster but I really like what Todd & Jenni are building. I hope the Japanese pair spark some interest in pairs in Japan, they have an abundance of talented single skaters. 
Men - So, so happy for Vincent. Still don’t like Shoma’s Bolero. I’m not worried about Nathan. 
Ladies - great event, American ladies so, so far behind. 
Dance - The American judge went with H/D and I expected that, they have medaled at worlds this entire Olympic cycle and C/B haven’t. They were basically tied with the free dance and they both have a lot to clean up in terms of levels. I do think C/B free dance will grow, but there so much politics in ice dance, I think the US will put their eggs in the H/D basket and just hope to stay ahead of G/P, there’s a whole separate political battle for Gold. I do think C/B have the better programs but someone please explain to me how these two have been dating for so many years and have such little chemistry on the ice this season?

[CeeBeeGee]

I missed the ladies free skate this afternoon--did Amber Glenn throw the 3A?

[healthnut]

52 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I missed the ladies free skate this afternoon--did Amber Glenn throw the 3A?

Nope. 

[Lady Whistleup]

1 hour ago, healthnut said:

I do think C/B have the better programs but someone please explain to me how these two have been dating for so many years and have such little chemistry on the ice this season?

It's like Joey's explanation about performance chemistry being based on the tension of NOT doing it:

 

[alexa]

Honestly Nathan struggling now is to his benefit.  Had he been strong from the start of the season, he probably would have more pressure at the Olympics.  Now he can get some of these performances out of the way early and peak later (hopefully).  

[specialj67]

In my memory, Nathan’s never been in top form for Skate America. Even when he won, there was still some messiness. 

I want to love Chock and Bates’ free dance, but I’m not sold on it yet. I lost interest about halfway through. I hope it improves, because I want to love it so much! I like it when experienced teams go for weird. This reminds me a bit of the Kerr’s alien-themed free dance from 2009.

The women’s free skate was the standout of the competition for me this weekend. Purely on personal taste, I would have had Daria in first. I admire Alexandra for her determination and gutsiness, but I don’t feel anything when I watch her skate. I hope Young You can replicate what she did here, because she was an absolute delight.

[KittenPokerCheater]

So my cable will only show skating if I upgrade my subscription.  Are there any other options other than network tv?  How is the coverage on peacock?

[Jaded]

5 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

So my cable will only show skating if I upgrade my subscription.  Are there any other options other than network tv?  How is the coverage on peacock?

The skating this afternoon was on NBC. I can't comment on Peacock since I don't subscribe. I was a bit annoyed with the site when I was using it to watch some of the Olympic coverage.

[healthnut]

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

How is the coverage on peacock?

I love Peacock. I can watch all the practices. I can watch events live and pause and rewind. All for $4.99/month. 

[Jillibean]

10 hours ago, specialj67 said:

I want to love Chock and Bates’ free dance, but I’m not sold on it yet. I lost interest about halfway through. I hope it improves, because I want to love it so much! I like it when experienced teams go for weird. This reminds me a bit of the Kerr’s alien-themed free dance from 2009.

That's the problem for me, also. It's well skated, but it's not particularly captivating, and "encounter with alien" isn't a strong enough narrative to suggest a storyline. There isn't a sense of the program building or the stakes getting higher as you hit the last minute. When I think of the two previous winning free dances, D/W's Scheherazade and V/M's Moulin Rouge, this looks like C/B got lost in the Free Dance program warehouse. Not that they ever had a chance of winning; I just don't understand why, in an Olympic year, you wouldn't just take everything you have and throw down. I love that one lift where he holds her by the lower leg, but honestly I think H/D's bent arms over the head lift is more compelling, and that's a shame because C/B have always done such great lifts. 

16 hours ago, honeywest said:

If they couldn’t beat Hubbell and Donohue with their snake program, I don’t think they can beat them with this.

They did beat them the first year they had that program. Last year I think they only competed it three times and none of those times were clean. However H/D also had a real mess of a FD the season that Chock and Bates were beating them. At the time, though, it felt like a momentum shift in the politics. Unfortunately, then COVID happened and Madi and Evan were sidelined by yet another injury and they just couldn't get it back together enough to sustain that momentum for the shortened season last year. 

12 hours ago, healthnut said:

I do think C/B have the better programs but someone please explain to me how these two have been dating for so many years and have such little chemistry on the ice this season?

It's bizarre, isn't it? And they never try to play into it. They don't have to do dramatic love on ice, but they could certainly pick an emotional or moving song that plays to their more subtle style and let their real feelings shine through. The closest they really came was the Elvis program which involved a choreographed kiss, and that was a really fun program. I get that when they were first together they were quieter about their relationship, but they've been together for...six  years, now? Seven? These are clearly two people who love each other so, so much and have been through so much on and off the ice, and they come out and are like, "Okay! Pretend we're an alien and an astronaut!" I just don't think I follow the decision-making. 

I don't think NBC ultimately cares whether Nathan wins a gold medal, so I don't think they're trying to learn a lesson unless that lesson involves ratings. And regardless of how many people do or don't care about the Olympics, Nathan has to feel a lot of pressure because he wants to win. 

One of the things Johnny did that was helpful during this event (I agree with those who would be happy to not have Tara back), is pointing out the mistakes people make when they're nervous--shoulders too high, shoulders too round, rushing takeoffs, etc. He doesn't just make uncomfortable noises of distress when someone doesn't land a jump cleanly; he explains what went wrong in the technique, and it shows just how frequently the mistake is due to nerves. 

[le bordel chaud]

On 10/24/2021 at 9:58 AM, ML89 said:

Daria was terrific and usually the Russian ladies bore me. She reminds me of Caryn Kadavy for some reason.

She definitely resembles Caryn physically!

[le bordel chaud]

18 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Not really.  The Olympics are not what they used to be.  If it wasn't for Simone's issues, the Summer Olympics would have passed with barely a blip.  I don't know anyone who actually watched them outside of fans dedicated to specific sports.  They are no longer Must-See TV. 

As for the Winter Olympics, few people even know they will be on this February. And men's figure skating was NEVER as popular as women's skating. The best he can hope for after winning is Dancing with the Stars and a tour in Japan.  

Hopefully, he can get his head together.  If not, there are plenty of others waiting in the wings. In any case, he has a full life ahead of him.  

Despite the significance to the public at large, the Olympics are still the pinnacle for figure skaters and has more importance to them than any other competition. Just because they may "not be what they used to be", or "no longer Must-See TV" and his discipline has "NEVER as popular as women's skating" has nothing to do with how much it means to the athletes. Their nerves will react accordingly, as we saw with him in Pyeongyang. I imagine he is under amount an immense amount of pressure--not just regarding the vultures in the media, but from his own incredibly high standards and expectations. He has accomplished everything else in his sport--the Olympic Gold medal is all he has missing. And despite most fans not thinking any less of skaters who don't win the Olympics, it is still something that matters very much to the skaters themselves.

Edited October 25, 2021 by le bordel chaud

[Lady Whistleup]

I also think that (weirdly) H/D's free dance would look better on C/B, and C/B's free dance would look better on H/D.

3 minutes ago, le bordel chaud said:

Despite the significance to the public at large, the Olympics are still the pinnacle for figure skaters and has more importance to them than any other competition. Just because they may "not be what they used to be", or "no longer Must-See TV" and his discipline has "NEVER as popular as women's skating" has nothing to do with how much it means to the athletes. Their nerves will react accordingly, as we saw with him in Pyeongyang. I imagine he is under amount an immense amount of pressure--not just regarding the vultures in the media, but from his own incredibly high standards and expectations. He has accomplished everything else in his sport--the Olympic Gold medal is all he has missing. And despite most fans not thinking any less of skaters who don't win the Olympics, it is still something that matters very much to the skaters themselves.

Don't forget a lot of the pressure athletes are under is also self-imposed. Figure skaters tend to attract harsh perfectionists. Nathan seems like that prototype -- someone who is always seeking perfection in everything he does.

[le bordel chaud]

4 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I also think that (weirdly) H/D's free dance would look better on C/B, and C/B's free dance would look better on H/D.

Don't forget a lot of the pressure athletes are under is also self-imposed. Figure skaters tend to attract harsh perfectionists. Nathan seems like that prototype -- someone who is always seeking perfection in everything he does.

I hope you were quoting me in agreement because I hope that's what my post implied 😄. ITA 100%.

[Lady Whistleup]

2 minutes ago, le bordel chaud said:

I hope you were quoting me in agreement because I hope that's what my post implied 😄. ITA 100%.

Yeah I agree with you. I think that Nathan in particular seems to be an extreme perfectionist, and one thing about perfectionists (I;m one too) is that they often get into a huge funk when something goes wrong and they can't get out of that tailspin.

Simone Biles was like that too -- furious over every hop on a landing. 

Also, Nathan's mom has a reputation as THE helicopter mom. 

[Good Queen Jane]

The Olympics does put a huge amount of pressure on skaters. Let's not forget that multiple Worlds champions like Michelle Kwan and Kurt Browning never won an Olympic gold.

[KittenPokerCheater]

@healthnut- can you watch the practices/competitions after they have happened?  (I work weird hours and can't always watch live).

Edited October 25, 2021 by KittenPokerCheater

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

@healthnut- can you watch the practices/competitions after they have happened?  (I work weird hours and can't always watch live).

The competitions you can. I don't know about practices. I've never noticed them before so I'm thinking you probably can't watch them later.

[specialj67]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

The competitions you can. I don't know about practices. I've never noticed them before so I'm thinking you probably can't watch them later.

I was curious, so I went on the Peacock app. It seems you can replay the practice cam streams—at least for this particular event.