S11.E06: Week 5

[GracieK]

Ian's expensive Princeton education certainly didn't teach him much about common sense or even the basic intellect that it would take not to so obviously sabotage what could have been an easy bid for next Bachelor.  Had he continued on the path he'd played up til that point, he would have most certainly garnered a ton of sympathy and support to be the next Bachelor.

[JudyObscure]

Both Emily and Des were so boring to me.

I think a lot of people found them boring, but I really thought they were much more interesting than Kaitlyn. We saw Emily get really worked up about issues around Ricky. We saw Des fall for the model who just wasn't that into her and through it all they were polite to all their guys. I think it was their sincere investment in "the journey," that made it more compelling to me. Kaitlyn just seems to be hanging out.

One minute she has me convinced she's really, deeply attracted to Shawn and then a few minutes later she's rolling on the bed with Jared whose conversation she couldn't even pay attention to on their date. I agree that you need to test drive a car before you make a purchase, but I don't test drive every car on the lot, even the ones I know I'll never actually buy.

[anony mouse]

I disagree that a "good b-ette" is like a Disney princess. I thought Trista, the first b-ette, was a very good one because she was attractive enough to get the men all interested but not plastic, she was energetic and fun-loving with a sense of humor, and she was intelligent and discerning in her selection process and really tried to draw the men out and get to know them, not just make it all about her. I didn't like Andi as a person, but I thought she was a good b-ette for the same reasons. (And Jen S. was a horrible one, like Deanna, for being the opposite.)

On the plus side for Kaitlyn are her sense of fun and enthusiasm and that she doesn't seem to take herself too seriously. On the negative, I don't share her sense of humor (not saying she doesn't have one, she obviously does) and --worst so far--she seems very bad at drawing the men out (good conversation with Shawn this week being the exception). I also hate how she belabors the interpersonal drama in the house week after week rather than just letting them all work it out.

I particularly didn't like the boxing and wrestling events where she really didn't seem to care that they could be badly injured. She seemed much too self-centered there for me to think "good b-ette". Was it Josh who got the concussion? I've forgotten, but I wonder if that could explain why he seems sort of slow, that he was more badly injured than they realized.

Also, I didn't like what she did to his hair. Seriously, when you see you've made a mistake, it's time to call for the pros to fix it (TB has many) not go on and make the poor guy's hair--on television--so much worse. I don't think she felt bad enough about it either, from what we saw and heard. Even Andi, I think, would have stopped at the first sign of scalp in the wrong place and called for some help. So I see Kaitlyn as too self-centered and indifferent to any guy not already on her "hook up with him" radar. A good b-ette is nice to/interested in all of them.

I was horrified about the hair - I got the sense she was drunk and found it all a good laugh when she accidentally shaved the bald patch. Most people would stop and apologize profusely and get someone to fix it, not make it ten times worse. And then, at the end, still no plea to the producers to help him out? That's poorly done and makes me think even less of her.

[reggiejax]

I disagree that a "good b-ette" is like a Disney princess. I thought Trista, the first b-ette, was a very good one because she was attractive enough to get the men all interested but not plastic, she was energetic and fun-loving with a sense of humor, and she was intelligent and discerning in her selection process and really tried to draw the men out and get to know them, not just make it all about her.

 

 

I agree that they got the template for The Bachelorette right the first time out with Trista. But I do think that she had more than a bit of the Disney Princess in her. She just had the right amount, enough to make you like her but not so much as to trigger adult onset diabetes. And she had the other important factor needed: a real belief that this could work. Which I know sounds ridiculous, and even did way back then, but if the lead doesn't believe it, how can they sell it to us? Of course it helped that it really did work for Trista. The belief in the process, whether real or faked, has been lacking in recent years. Kaitlyn is less believable saying she believes her husband is here than Richard Nixon saying he drinks Duff beer. 

[Mu Shu]

I think one part Trista's  pragmatism, one part Jillian's enthusiasm, and one part Meredith's sense of ease and self confidence would be something any B ette would research and emulate to the degree she was comfortable with.   Kaitlyn really isn't that funny,  she's not really photogenic, and her insistence on showing these guys who is boss is annoying.   She knew she was starting off as the girl who strips down on camera, the one who makes plowing my field jokes on camera, and that would color her edit.    I don't buy her hard ass act, I don't buy her being that desirable to most of the guys, and I don't buy her commitment to her role.

 

She was miscast, but there were no viable options from Chris's group.    The best part is the anticipation of hearing the guys dish.  Oh to get a few drinks into Ryan, Kupah, and Ian and have them heckle her from the bushes.   

 

Sorry, but I want my treacly, cheesy fairy tale back.    

[Bugs Meany]

I was horrified about the hair - I got the sense she was drunk and found it all a good laugh when she accidentally shaved the bald patch. Most people would stop and apologize profusely and get someone to fix it, not make it ten times worse. And then, at the end, still no plea to the producers to help him out? That's poorly done and makes me think even less of her.

 

Agree in full. Just because she was laughing doesn't mean it's funny.

 

Between that, the cackling, the foul mouth, her handling of every "dramatic" situation she creates by choice--she just acts how she wants to act, regardless of what's decent or appropriate.

[jette]

Plus, to every declaration of love by the guys so far, Kaitlyn's stock response has been: "that makes me so happy." I believed her momentarily when she uttered those words to Shawn, but she said the very same thing to Jared as well. Made me wonder if an "I'm falling in love with you too" wasn't edited out before the bed rolling began.

 

I hated that Kaitlyn persisted in coaxing emotion out of Ben H on the rooftop portion of their date. Felt like I was watching Unreal for a moment there!

[Alison]

I guess we'll all have to agree to disagree, then :)

[The Evil One]

This season continues to be a struggle, mostly because Kaitlyn is really not a compelling Bachelorette. Not that I think Britt would have been (I'm a Carly girl) but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I would have loved to hate Britt. In any case, Kaitlyn is not leading lady material; she is quirky best friend.

At least Ian's epic flameout gave us something to watch. His early footage was so promising - seemingly genuine, interested in Kaitlyn, etc. I guess being away from whomever daily kisses his Princeton-graduate-living-miracle ass was a struggle for him. Though I will agree on him with two things: (1) most of the guys are on a vacation from life, not there for a wife and (2) Kaitlyn is not there to meet a husband, but to make out with hot dudes on TV. No judgment! But he's not factually incorrect.

And lastly, the Schnozz was in a bad accident as well? Was this a pre-requisite? "Have you had a near death experience?"

[woodscommaelle]

What's with Kaitlyn and her fringe obsession.  

Maybe she was dressed by Amanda from Project Runway.

 

So, I find Ian's career as an Executive Recruiter interesting, what with having a PRINCETON education and all.  Not a knock at all to recruiters;  I was a recruiting assistant for two years and have been trying to find a job in the field for eight months after being laid off in October.  I guess I would just expect something different with a degree from an Ivy League school.  Or maybe it's not strange at all and I just 100% dislike him after last night.  What a fucking douche.

[KnoxForPres]

I wish to co-sign this.

Hey, most people have their "what the fuck am I doing with my life" moments when they're staring into a mirror, or a toilet bowl, at 3 a.m. Ian just happened to have his while he was staring at a camera on national TV "

This post as so many this episode) is just made of win. Hats off, my friend.

And I'd bet my non Ivy League degree that all these guys save the one she rolled around on a bed with tonight and had a date with last week who's unfortunate looking sure as hell have exes twice as good looking. And smarter and you'd actually like to take to her to the family cookout.

See it's ok (though I still wouldn't) to call out a Kalon or Bentley, but to call out Josh, who you just jacked up his hair and by all appearances is decent, is not ok. Embarrassing others publicly is spared for that 1% of the world who truly do suck.

Her comfort zone with Nick tells me there has been some lame scarf sex going down. The familiarity, the legs naturally tossed over legs is after hanging out a few times and/or doing it in my experience. Fucking liars.

And I was turned off by Kaitlyn dissing past guys in her I wanna mariachi you song. Screw her for making fun of guys who had left (haha, on their own accord). I'm starting to think Tony's bonsai trees and pup are more insightful. Namaste, Dear Tony.

Damn! Edited to add I didn't realize Seth McFarlanes twin was on there til tonight! Had also never seen a Tanner who I'd take to the fantasy suite. Was Seth the good at sex Ed one?

Edited June 17, 2015 by KnoxForPres

[atlanticslide]

I have to say, I'm kind of surprised at how many people are defending Ian and justifying his treatment of Kaitlyn. I found him unbelievably vile. I don't particularly think that he has a point about her - sure, maybe she's here to make out with a bunch of guys, but so what? But even if everything he said was right, there's really no need to say any of it to her except to hurt her. She hasn't done anything wrong to him and if he ever had a problem with any of the dates he was free to leave at any time. His confronting her wasn't about anything except his own bruised ego, and I found it unnecessarily cruel, even if she's a lame bachelorette. And his talking heads - of course there was some editing involved in stringing them all together, but unless they cut words from different sentences together, he still said all of those things.

[Andromeda]

SO SICK OF THE PERFORMANCE DATES! Hey, show! Come up with something new! At least the mariachi band one was somewhat fun, though did I hear her say mariachi was all about humor? Say, what? And the two-stepping date at least didn't feel like everyone was there to watch them specifically, which is good.

[Lone Wolf]

Nick looks like Spencer Pratt.  He has the same smarmy reality show villain presence as well, which I have no doubt is intentional.

 

Kaitlyn actually said, "Ben and I's date".  JFC, who talks that?  

Edited June 17, 2015 by Lone Wolf

[backformore]

Kaitlyn actually said, "Ben and I's date".  JFC, who talks that?

 

who?  Reality show people, that's who!   On Bachelor/ette and Amazing Race, SOMEONE will talk about  "_____________ and I's relationship".   It kills me every time.

[Pollock]

Kaitlyn is a cool girl I could hang out with, we are very much alike in fact : no class, big laugh easily triggered, debatable tattoos choices (I was young...) but that makes her a poor bachelorette imho : a price in real life (I know I am! Ha!) but not a one of a kind precious cheesy fairy tail (I know I'm not!).

She's the girl next door embodiment I think and if it's a good thing in life imho, on TV I like my bachelorette to be more Audrey Hepburn than Jennifer Lawrence if that makes sense. Miss Lawrence can play princess on the red carpet but she's a slob. Casual Audrey Hepburn still is class and beauty personnified. Casual JLaw is me on our "couch sundays". If it's fun to live, it's not pretty to look at, very much like this season. Even worse, this season didn't seem like something fun to live either!

[JenE4]

And I'd bet my non Ivy League degree that all these guys save the one she rolled around on a bed with tonight and had a date with last week who's unfortunate looking sure as hell have exes twice as good looking.

...

Damn! Edited to add I didn't realize Seth McFarlanes twin was on there til tonight! Had also never seen a Tanner who I'd take to the fantasy suite. Was Seth the good at sex Ed one?

I think the "roll around on the bed guy" and the "unfortunate-looking guy from last week" are the same guy: Jared. This is assuming you mean the date where they got all dressed up and had dinner at the MET museum.

As for is Tanner the guy who was good at sex ed, no that was Ben H. However, Ben H. does look the most like Seth McFarlane (although most of us say Peter Brady), so then, yeah, I think you do mean the same guy.

I'm usually SO terrible with names, but this season I've actually been able to keep track of more people than ever before! I think giving everyone a "busted [celebrity name]" moniker helped me to remember faces w/ nicknames to actual names.

[JudyObscure]

Okay, y'all just go ahead and be mean about Jared! He can come to my house for comfort. I'll give him a nice close shave and dress him back up in that tux.

Edited June 17, 2015 by JudyObscure

[jette]

Yep, Jared is a cutie! But JudyObscure, while you're giving him that nice close shave, could you please do something with that weird little bit of hair of the left side of his forehead please?

 

I've disagreed all along that there were no good looking guys in Kaitlyn's cast. Evidently production is hiding razors and hair gel from most of them....of course a hair clipper showed up at just the wrong moment for poor Josh!

 

Maybe you could fix that too, JudyObscure?

[kira28]

I agree that Kaitlynn isn't a very good Bachelorette. I didn't watch Des's season (last one I watched was Emily) but I did watch Jillian's and while she wasn't a traditional beauty or Disney princess she still had the majority of the guys competing for her. This season they are leaving left and right on their own accord. Or they are trashing the lead and she kicks them off. Kaitlynn (IMO) is a horrible actress and doesn't sell the "my husband is in this room" at all.  She's so flaky and she acts the same with the majority of the guys. She's not very attractive (by Bachelorette standards) and again IMO she's kind of gross. She has the cute girl next door look of Melissa Rycroft(the "winner" from Jason's season) but she's a 2nd rate Melissa (by far not as pretty), she doesn't have a nice body, she's just skinny and she's not that funny (again IMO) and she doesn't engage with the guys. She went from telling Shawn she's falling in love with him too , to rolling around on a bed with Jared a few minutes later and telling him the same canned response she told Shawn when he confessed his feelings (that makes me so happy). If you really had such strong feelings for one guy you wouldn't be playing tonsil hockey with whoever shows up next two minutes later.  I think she sees herself as above some of these guys (looking at you Joe,  josh)

[saber5055]

Kaitlyn is not leading lady material; she is quirky best friend.

 

 

No way in aych-ee-double hockey sticks would I want Kaitlyn for a friend much less a "best" one. I would meet her once and then she would be an "acquaintance." An acquaintance to be avoided. Never in this universe or the next one would I want to spend time with her crude and loud and crass self. That includes my tv-watching universe. Hoping for Ninja Warrior to return next week.

[JenE4]

No way in aych-ee-double hockey sticks would I want Kaitlyn for a friend much less a "best" one. I would meet her once and then she would be an "acquaintance." An acquaintance to be avoided. Never in this universe or the next one would I want to spend time with her crude and loud and crass self. That includes my tv-watching universe. Hoping for Ninja Warrior to return next week.

 

I think that was just meant in TV/movies casting she would only be the quirky best friend, not the female lead. However, I'll downgrade her to odd, annoying neighbor, as an Urkel or a Kramer. She would need a catch phrase (like Urkel's "Did I do that?"). I suppose it could be, "He could plow my field!" Alright, maybe she's not THAT bad.

Edited June 17, 2015 by JenE4

[Madding crowd]

I'm sure Kaityn is a nice person, she is just not right for this show. I think the Bachelorette has to be kind of feminine and play up the romantic angle. When Kaitlyn says she is looking for love etc, it just comes across as performance art, not real. I'm not saying a girl IRL needs to wear makeup and dresses, many women I know do not; but they wouldn't be good on the show.

 

I do think the some of the guys are coming across as good guys and are attractive. I don't believe many of them are attracted to her, but at least Shawn and Jared are and that's a start. I don't believe Nick really is into Kaitlyn, he wants to be on TV. I also still think Ian is a jerk. Whatever you think about the woman, he still should be polite and not put her down. It was his choice to be on the show and if you feel she isn't paying you attention, tell her you want to get to know her.

 

Of course there seems to be little of the private conversations and can I interrupt thing which used to occur in the cocktail ceremonies. Most of it is the guys sitting by themselves bored in a hotel room, and Kaitlyn coming by to bitch about something. Add in little Chris Harrison and few rose ceremonies and it becomes pretty dull.

[saber5055]

Of course there seems to be little of the private conversations and can I interrupt thing which used to occur in the cocktail ceremonies.

 

 

Oh, yeah, this. That used to irk me, the b-ette would be in conversation with some guy, only to be stolen by another guy. It's like TPTB encouraged that, and the first guy could never say no to the stealing guy. Has that even happened at all this season? Even the bachelors don't want to be around Kaitlyn.

 

While Emily hated the "this life-threatening experience is just like falling in love" dates, she did do that one building rappel, and with a thunderstorm coming in no less. Kaitlyn, I'd think, would be all about rappelling and bungee jumping and sky diving and parachuting and rock climbing, but so far there's been nothing like that, just guys beating each other up while she laughs about it. The two-step dance competition was a good date, or at least recognizable as a date. But other than that ... nothing.

 

I still wonder if TPTB has changed on this show, this season is so ... unlikeable.

[C76]

Based on all my years watching this show, and now "Unreal", I have a feeling that Ian's voiceovers were edited and spliced.

 

 

I just feel like the editing on this show this year is crazy. The Ian rant kinda came out of nowhere. And I was confused during Joshua's confrontation. Just like I didn't understand her level of anger at Clint. They seem to be leaving a lot of stuff out.

 

UnREAL's ruined The Bachelor(ette) a bit for me--but in a good way. I can't help but feel like the audience is being manipulated.

 

Ian's expensive Princeton education certainly didn't teach him much about common sense or even the basic intellect that it would take not to so obviously sabotage what could have been an easy bid for next Bachelor.  Had he continued on the path he'd played up til that point, he would have most certainly garnered a ton of sympathy and support to be the next Bachelor.

Maybe he doesn't want to continue his relationship with the franchise. If I ever was [God only knows what] enough to make it onto this show, I might play along at first--but I wouldn't go out of my way to stay. 

Edited June 17, 2015 by C76

[backformore]

Most of it is the guys sitting by themselves bored in a hotel room, and Kaitlyn coming by to bitch about something

 

yep.  And then when she DOES talk to them, she's like a junior high girl, asking them to tell her what the OTHER guys are saying.  

 

I swear, it's like she's about to start asking "What about nick?  do you think he likes me?   like, does he LIKE-like me?" 

[letters to you]

Kaitlyn's mariachi veered into Italian gondola to me.

 

 

To me it was veering into yodeling or a goat's bleat.

haha. I was pleasantly surprised by her singing ability, she's good. Sort of cabaret/jazz style.

 

Most have expressed what I was thinking about Ian's behavior. What a colossal ego on that one. Maybe he truly felt some of the things he said to Kaitlyn although I think most of it came from a place of wanting to hurt her and that is what was completely unrefined. What a mean-spirited person. He mentioned that Kaitlyn wasn't seeing the epic person he supposedly is. Okay, fine. Then move on. No need to try and cause Kaitlyn to feel ashamed of herself if she simply didn't give you the attention you were expecting. I agree with:

I got the feeling after his tirade to Kaitlyn that he has emotionally abusive tendencies.

[saber5055]

UnREAL's ruined The Bachelor(ette) a bit for me--but in a good way. I can't help but feel like the audience is being manipulated.

 

 

I wish everyone who watches this franchise could watch UnREAL. All of the behind-the-scenes articles I've been reading for the past few years say outright we viewers are being manipulated by editing, and contestants put on the show to fill certain roles. People are fed lines for their THs which are then spliced in out-of-context. It is fun to watch, however, with that in mind, knowing TPTB want us to think a certain way and prompt contestants to say certain lines that are then edited together (Ian). Yeah, he said those things but if the producer asked, "Ian, do you think you would make a good Bachelor?" and he answers, "Yes, I would have made a great Bachelor" and so on and so on, he can then easily be edited to look the douche. (Which is exactly what happened.) "Ian, was your last girlfriend more or less sexy than Kaitlyn?" And yada yada.

 

However, I still like the fairytale fantasy aspect of this show, even knowing it's fake. Every once in a while even a blind pig finds an acorn. 

Edited June 18, 2015 by saber5055

[Mu Shu]

Okay, y'all just go ahead and be mean about Jared! He can come to my house for comfort. I'll give him a nice close shave and dress him back up in that tux.

I also now think Jared is a smoking hot piece of man meat.    He seems to be pretty decent, too. 

[Lawgiver]

I think Nick looks like a love child of Jon Lithgow and The Biscuit from Ally McBeal. Not at all good-looking. I'm enjoying the train-wreck this year.

[reggiejax]

Nick looks like Spencer Pratt.  He has the same smarmy reality show villain presence as well, which I have no doubt is intentional.

 

 

Well that definitely explains why I find Nick's face to be so punchable. I can't believe I didn't see the resemblance before. 

Edited June 17, 2015 by reggiejax

[Mu Shu]

Nick's face enrages me.   When he smiles, he reminds me of this guy I know named Stinky.

 

I was on the phone and missed some of the action-Was Kentucky Joe let go?    Big lipped guy?

 

Not buying the Ian 360 edit.    Sure he said some douchey stuff, but in what context?    How do you go from mild mannered to dickhead in like 2 seconds?    That's the third guy or so that has happened to so far.  

 

There's more going on than fart and poop jokes.   But come on Ian, lighten up. I went to the oh so prestigious Bauder college, and I love a good fart/poop joke.     Though hearing Ian lecture Kaitlyn on being into guys who make poop and fart jokes made me love him a lot.   

 

I just realized that she mocked Tony in her song, too.   Sure he was an odd duck, but other than being justifiably pissed about the shit activities they were forced to do, how did he wrong the sour patch princess?  

 

Sorry, team Kupah/Clint/Tony/Ryan/Ian here.   Can't wait for TMTA!    I may even get the 9.99 top shelf  wine at Chevron for that action. 
 

[leighdear]

I may even get the 9.99 top shelf  wine at Chevron for that action.

I'm thinking TMTA may even warrant an actual bottle, as opposed to my usual box.  I'm still deciding. 

[Mabinogia]

I'm starting to see that Kaitlyn has a rather mean spirited sense of humor. I don't like that. I was excited about having a totally different, non-princess style bachelorette, but I think she's too far the other way. It's not funny to shave a bald spot in some poor guys head when he's putting his trust in you and then just leaving him like that and thinking it's hilarious. It's not funny to make fun of some of the "losers" but even moreso, didn't she poke fun of Britt in an earlier ep? Was it maybe the comedy one? That seemed really low to me. Britt's going to be just fine, she's got her little side show going on, but it was still so tacky and tasteless and mean spirited.

 

I don't need my bachelorette to be refined, but I do need her to not be mean. And omg what a drama queen, which kind of goes against this whole cool, laid back one of the guys thing she's trying to portray. I don't remember a season with this much drama. Every time something happens she's right there, egging it on.

 

I'm now officially hate watching. I want to see all the guys just up and leave one by one. Except maybe JJ and Nick. She can have her choice of those two. But I want the rest to escape from her while there is still a chance.

 

Not sure who I see as the next bachelor yet. There are a few I wouldn't mind watching but no single standout.

[KR Vermont]

I suppose I'll continue to watch so I can see what they do to the few guys left I find decent.

It could be fun to get together for a MTA viewing party somewhere. Like a hotel suite with a giant TV and stay up into the wee hours talking about the ridiculousness like a teen slumber party. LOL (what's my age again?)

[Padma]

I expected to like Kaitlyn, but I'm finding her surprisingly mean-spirited, too.  I was first surprised by her callous indifference to the men getting hurt in the previous episodes (wasn't one of them Josh? I forget but you'd think she might give him a little more TLC after that, whoever "he" was). Then not only did she keep going after ruining Josh's hair, she didn't even trim both sides, she just shaved them (badly). That's so rude.  And she doesn't seem to think twice about embarrassing him on television.

 

I really hated how she badgered Nick to tell her who was being mean to him in the house. Why should he? So she can go reprimand him in person? At least Nick was smart enough to know that would have ended very badly (making him look like a tattletale to Kaitlyn, and a whiner, even if he'd initially resisted talking about it.) He had the right idea--we're working through it, not a problem. But it seemed like she -wanted- there to be a problem so she could feel important--go confront someone.

 

I'm disappointed Ian turned out to be such a d-bag, but I think TMTA will be more interesting than usual this year as a result. He basically said the emperor has no clothes and by the time they all get together to talk about it, many of them will be completely over Kaitlyn and really not impressed by her as they watch this.

[ElectricCityy]

Kaitlyn putting Joshua on the spot like that was total asshole move. She said if anyone ever had a problem to come to her about it, then she embarrasses him for expressing his concerns. Of course all the guys are upset about Nick coming in. What a dumbass she is. All she wants is for the guys to kiss her ass and tell her what a great decision it was to bring him on. That's why she rewarded Justin (a guy she has zero connection with) the rose last week. She made poor Jared's date all about Nick. I can not stand this girl.

[pitchy]

I couldn't resist tuning in this week. sigh

And yet even Joshua's incessant whining about Nick didn't make me tune out early.

With so many guys left now, I'm not buying their angst that Nick is (single-handedly!) taking away a rose or time from them any more than each of the other guys there. I get their point, but if you're not making a connection with Kaitlyn now, you're on your way out soon anyway--Nick or no Nick.

 

Joshua was just ridiculous, always whining about Nick, and projecting onto the others the intensity of his gloom over Nick's presence.  He's judging (constantly) that there is 'nothing good about this guy.'  But who's he to judge?  The 'show' is supposed to be focused on getting Kaitlyn a husband.  It's not a GAME with strict rules about who's allowed to 'play' after it starts.

 

 This is about getting her what she's looking for in a guy -- for 'Life" -- and while Joshua may understandably not like that SHE's not made up her mind and wants to include someone she's somewhat interested in, his hostility toward Nick is overblown.

  Not unlike the palpable hostility (well, overflowing hostility) Andi showed when she had to look at Nick in the 'After' show when she seemed to detest the idea of even having to say hello to him and look his way on the traditional public After-show (I've never seen such a truly cold person like Andi on the show as a lead and was not unhappy when Josh broke up with her).  And I understood Nick's discomfort and puzzlement at the time.

 

  I think a reason Nick does so well with the leads during the show is that he talks to them the way a 'friend' would, with natural language and questions, rather than using the formulaic words given the contestants by the show runners.

 

  Shawn was answering her questions while Joshua was focused on doing nothing but griping about NIck's presence (which was due to Kaitlyn and/or the producers) and J showed no interest in Kaitlyn herself, while Shawn definitely does.  He didn't exaggerate to say ALL the other guys felt as he did.

Edited June 18, 2015 by pitchy

[MakeMeLaugh]

My problem with Nick is not that's he's Nick but the reasoning behind bringing him on late. Sure, "maybe he is the one and Kaitlyn deserves a chance to find out" but that could be said of any of the bazillion single guys who are not on the show. If the premise is that the Bach/ette might find true love within this preselected group of people, then stick to it. If the premise is that the Bach/ette might find love with anyone he or she has ever met or might ever meet, then that's a different show. Sort of not fair that the original guys are having the rules changed on them--show really is telling them that she doesn't find them collectively good enough for her.

[pitchy]

Why should they do anything "gracefully" when it's obvious Kaitlyn only recognizes crude and graceless gestures?  Everything about her so far has been loud, abrasive and confrontational.  

 

You've been clear that you were for Britt in a very big way and that Kaitlyn is sorta scum but that can lead to exaggeration of what she does.  Would you deem Shawn as one with "crude and graceless gestures:" ?

[saber5055]

If the premise is that the Bach/ette might find true love within this preselected group of people, then stick to it. If the premise is that the Bach/ette might find love with anyone he or she has ever met or might ever meet, then that's a different show.

 

 

I agree, stick to the script. I always find it interesting, that people like Nick and that guy whose name I've forgotten (and he's shown so often!) who wanted in with Andi, and the woman who came back after Chris kicked her out ... they all say the Bach or Bach-ette will be engaged or married and they will have missed their chance with him/her. How often does that happen? Nick could have just been patient and waited for Kaitlyn's season to be over and all her rounds of publicity done, then she'd break up with her "chosen" one. They could get together then. (Of course, no cameras would be around then, so there's that.)

 

Unless Nick (and all those others) was/were brought on by TPTB. Then that's a different (scripted) story.

Edited June 18, 2015 by saber5055

[backformore]

My problem with Nick is not that's he's Nick but the reasoning behind bringing him on late. Sure, "maybe he is the one and Kaitlyn deserves a chance to find out" but that could be said of any of the bazillion single guys who are not on the show. If the premise is that the Bach/ette might find true love within this preselected group of people, then stick to it. If the premise is that the Bach/ette might find love with anyone he or she has ever met or might ever meet, then that's a different show. Sort of not fair that the original guys are having the rules changed on them--show really is telling them that she doesn't find them collectively good enough for her.

Agreed.  if they were so into each other over texting ( and I don't believe for a minute that they didn't meet in person before, they totally have hooked up before the show)  then Kaitlyn is totally not there "for the right reasons".  She agreed to be the Bachelorette  to find a husband, when she should have just pursued the relationship she had already begun with Nick  - INSTEAD of going on the show.  if you really want a husband, then date the guy you're so attracted to, instead of dating 25 new guys. 

 

It makes me wonder - perhaps BOTH Kaitlyn and Britt started dating guys, then they were approached by the show, and the plot was that their two "boyfriends"  would be given roles in the show.   One gets to compete for the final rose, and the other gets to be the suitor who says "no thanks"  to the chosen Bachelorette and goes to console the other one in her hotel room.   

 

I guess I see this show as almost as scripted as "UNREAL"  is. 

[ByTor]

Unless Nick (and all those others) was/were brought on by TPTB. Then that's a different (scripted) story.

I have no doubt in my mind this is the case.  How else would they happen to know where/when to show up?  I remember it happening in one season (the bachelor was *I think* Jesse Palmer) where an overconfident woman cast as "the one everybody hates" named Trish barged in on a one on one date and asked to come back, and viewers pretty much concluded TPTB had to be the ones to bring her back, simply because there is no other way she would even know about that date.

[leighdear]

 

Would you deem Shawn as one with "crude and graceless gestures:" ?

Shawn is not Kaitlyn.  His behavior hasn't bothered me, but I wouldn't call it refined and graceful.    In conversation with her, he said she was not being smart about Nick.  He refused to address Nick by name, simply referring to him as "the other guy".   None of that means he's a bad guy.  He's just a guy that obviously relates to Kaitlyn in ways important to her.

Edited June 18, 2015 by leighdear

[pitchy]

I don't have a problem with people confronting Kaitlyn, as she has been quite upfront with everyone.  But Kaitlyn has always been polite in her confrontations, she doesn't insult people.  I found Ian to be quite insulting towards her, seemingly just because she wasn't interested in him and his ego couldn't take it.  You can disagree with people and confront them without being rude/mean.

 

Good points re Kaitlyn's too-sober interactions with the guys when she sees a problem affecting her ability to figure out who would be good for the lifetime job.and sharing a bed.  

 

Ian had been my favorite until this episode and disappeared fully from view.  What 'logic' he gave -- editing or not -- that she didnt gravitate toward him meant (for him) that something is wrong with her because the rest of the 'hot' world sees him for what he is, a 'gift.'  He went to Princeton, and we're to rate anyone who did that much higher?  That's a lot of guys to auto-rate high.

 That he regularly gets easy action from 'hot' gals is not something that should prove Kaitlyn ought to react the same way to him lest she be considered seriously flawed when on a show where she is the one being courted by several for a life-long gig and she wants to see what they are all like, including how they kiss.

  Her mistake (in my view) would be in finding that many interesting enough as a possibility that she'd do a test drive.

 

  In the meantime, he was serving as Kelsey's replacement in putting himself "up here" while the others in the house (he essentially said) are "down there."   That he couldn't see how anyone would not immediately recognize that he is God's latest Gift to Earth just boggled my mind.  This otherwise very attractive, intelligent-looking guy suddenly became a deluded joke of a suitor.  No perspective.

[pitchy]

That was a little creepy to me. He wanted the down-and-out, emotionally weakened version of her rather than the person she actually is? 

 

Good catch.   The 'rescuer' rather than the ignored despite his being obviously the superior one in the house.

 

I'm trying to remember what happened when that drunk chick came back last season, did Chris let her back on? And did Britt have a meltdown over it? (She's the one I would imagine would have had the biggest problem.) ...  

 

Chris didn't add her (and he had not known her in the past, knowing her only as one of two who were regularly drunk).

 

  Britt's meltdown occurred when he gave a group rose to Kaitlyn instead of to Britt.  Britt said she was going to leave because she could not bring home to her family a man who did not consider her #1 and who was seriously considering a few other women.

 

   This meltdown with tears and some awful logic -- showing a non-understanding of the show's basic processes, --  seemed a self-centered reaction for a show where the entire premise is that 4 vyers for the heart get to do hometown sequences with the Bachelor.  She did not understand this at all, and the drama of not being willing to bring him home to her family while he was actively considering other women and giving one of them a group Rose instead of to her was no doubt the one factor that made it difficult for the producers to outright make her the Bachelorette. T'his episode was short-shrifted by many. 

Edited June 18, 2015 by pitchy

[pitchy]

One minute she has me convinced she's really, deeply attracted to Shawn and then a few minutes later she's rolling on the bed with Jared whose conversation she couldn't even pay attention to on their date. I agree that you need to test drive a car before you make a purchase, but I don't test drive every car on the lot, even the ones I know I'll never actually buy.

 

Every car but Ian !  Oh, also, Ryan B., Tony, and some other faces I didn't even recognize during their exits :-)

[pitchy]

I think Nick looks like a love child of Jon Lithgow and The Biscuit from Ally McBeal. Not at all good-looking. I'm enjoying the train-wreck this year.

 

He has always reminded me of John McEnroe...

[greyhorse]

I'm confused by all the "Ian was a contender to be the Bachelor" comments.  Really?  Do women find him that attractive?  I know he said he was a former model, which I find a little hard to believe.  He should know that usually the next Bachelor makes it quite far in the show.  To slam Kaitlyn and leave obviously doesn't help further that cause.  And what girl is going to want to go out with you after you make comments like "My ex-girlfriend is way hotter" and "I have lots of sex"?

 

Busted Ryan Gosling's interpretation of "opening up" is telling a story about how he almost died?  At least he didn't end it with "I love my story".

[ByTor]

He has always reminded me of John McEnroe...

I think it looks as though he's trying to look like old school Justin Timberlake.

I'm confused by all the "Ian was a contender to be the Bachelor" comments.  Really?  Do women find him that attractive?  

There's always someone out there who finds someone very attractive.  Case in point, there were women competing for Ben!