S04.E10: Election Night

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

 

On election night, Selina and her staff find their nerves growing frayed as each state result is called.

 

Promo:

[ruby24]

I'm sorry but if they have Selina win this election I'm going to have to quit this show. It's too unbelievable. She has done absolutely nothing in office, she's dogged by major scandals and criminal investigation, in all honesty I think she would have been tried for impeachment by now and forced to resign.

 

If they're going to have her be this terrible, and still pretend it could possibly be a close race, that's just insane. They'd have to show how she's somehow politically skilled enough to mask her incompetence and fool people (like Bush or something), but she's seriously at Palin levels of ridiculousness.

 

To have a major scandal like what happened in this last episode drop right before an election would sink any candidate.

[pivot]

That isn't true. She brokered a major Israel/Palestine deal and got the reporter back from Iran. She's also only been president for a few months right?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

[bmoore4026]

Tom James is the president!  Tom James is the president!  And Selina is back to where she was when the series started.  Poor Selina, you deserve it!

 

I hope this means that Hugh Laurie will become a regular.

[Primetimer]

No spoilers, but: if Election Night was an unqualified triumph for Selina, it wouldn't be Veep.

Read the story

[pivot]

I can't see how Selina takes the step back to Veep in reality. It would be a huge step backwards. But, for show purposes it makes sense. I am guessing if Tom James becomes president, he'll disappear off screen and we won't see him very often (if ever).

We are so close to having Amy and Dan back in the inner circle. Can't wait for them to be back together.

I can't see how Selina takes the step back to Veep in reality. It would be a huge step backwards. But, for show purposes it makes sense. I am guessing if Tom James becomes president, he'll disappear off screen and we won't see him very often (if ever).

We are so close to having Amy and Dan back in the inner circle. Can't wait for them to be back together.

On another note, what is it with tv shows having Minnesota flip red and still have the Dem win or tie? Not going to happen. Minnesota has the longest streak of voting for Dems at a Presidential level of any state currently. Last time we voted for a Republican was Nixon in 1972. We never voted for Reagan or either Bush. No way Selina wins some of those other states without winning Minnesota. The West Wing made the same stupid mistak.

Edited June 15, 2015 by pivot

[Scootman]

I think I know electoral college history pretty well, and I can only see Tom James becoming acting president for a while. If the senate confirmed him as Veep, and the presidential mess doesn't get figured out before Jan. 20, then he would be acting president.

But realistically, Selina or Ryan will be president.

[lovinbob]

There was a moment--and it was really just a second--of Sue-Kent chemistry that was palpable! I want to see some Sue-Kent deleted scenes!

[pivot]

I have to mention that I love that Sue likes Amy. For some reason, that made the episode for me. Well that and Catherine telling Bill not to make everything about him when he was talking about going to prison.

[Victura]

It's so telling that the person Selina goes to cry on is not Gary or her daughter, but Amy, who tells her to "ma'am up."

 

Catherine is attired almost delightfully frumpily, with those harem pants, booties, matronly sweater, and too-long hair.

 

Too bad Selina is about a foot shorter than Tom and can't quite obscure him from view, though mightily she tried.

 

That look Gary threw Tom as he grabbed the microphone out of Tom's hands...!

 

However it plays out, I do hope Hugh Laurie is here to stay.

[biakbiak]

Why didn't they pubically call out O'Brien on his high school football scandals?/FNL joke!

I do think the MN being red was ludicrous. As is Tom becoming President for real but if the show continues to make me laugh I will ignore realism because real politics is so laughable it makes me weep in a not good way.

Edited June 15, 2015 by biakbiak

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Why didn't they pubically call out O'Brien on his high school football scandals?/FNL joke!

Ha, I would have loved someone bringing up his Buddy Garrity schemes!

 

One thing that I thought this episode did really well was showing the highs and lows of waiting for the results to come in. As refreshing as it was when she had her zen moment with Catherine about how it was out of her hands and she just had to wait, I knew that wouldn't last long.

[abcfsk]

I'm sorry but if they have Selina win this election I'm going to have to quit this show. It's too unbelievable. She has done absolutely nothing in office, she's dogged by major scandals and criminal investigation, in all honesty I think she would have been tried for impeachment by now and forced to resign.

 

If they're going to have her be this terrible, and still pretend it could possibly be a close race, that's just insane. They'd have to show how she's somehow politically skilled enough to mask her incompetence and fool people (like Bush or something), but she's seriously at Palin levels of ridiculousness.

 

To have a major scandal like what happened in this last episode drop right before an election would sink any candidate.

 

We've actually quite often seen her been good at playing the game. The fuck ups happen constantly, sure, but so they do in any campaign. I can't even count the number of politicians elected as their nation's leader post- major, plausibly career ruining scandals, so in that light she's not been through real hell. 

[CMH1981]

So I guess they are turning Catherine into Meg from Family Guy.  We get Selina having a great one on one quiet moment with her daughter reflecting on the election, but then as soon as that is over Selina makes sure we know that her moments with her daughter they are unbearable.  Next, all hope is lost for Selina and who does she turn to, not her daughter who is right there but to Amy...basically the daughter she would rather have.

 

I did love Amy realizing where she needed to be on election night.  It felt natural her trying to connect with Selina.  I loved that Selina just glossed over the hard truths that Amy told her when she left, and just wrote it off as she was unwell and never really held it against her.  Those two have a deep connection, and I love it.  

 

Would Selina and group really have Bill Ericsson there on election night after throwing him under the bus?  That seemed odd to me, but I know we had to have the wrap up telling us what is happening to him, plus the jokes about prison and wanting to get pardoned.

 

So is that true?  If there is a tie, the House/Senate determines the outcome and if no victor the VP-elect of the President is made President?  That's....different.

 

It seemed like Tom James knew this was going to happen in his favor...plus the fact they had the Selina/Tom discussing a Tom as President option, or not discussing in regards to Karen.

 

Why in the hell did they bring Karen back?  It was pointless in my opinion and just seemed to stress Amy out.

 

I think JLD just got her Emmy win this season for that perfect rant about the voters of this great nation.  It was awesome.

 

So, what would have happened if Selina had conceded the election then we find out they tied?

[Cramps]

Gore conceded in 2000 and then called Bush and took it back, after they got different polling numbers. So basically nothing, only it becomes a lot messier.

Romney waited a somewhat long time to concede in 2012 after Ohio was called because he and his people (and most hilariously, Rove at Fox if you YouTube it) refused to believe the numbers.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Cramps

[Ms Blue Jay]

The seasons are way too short, and Sue was finally able to show some personality this season, and then it gets snatched away from us.

 

Poor Richard, he had nothing to do this episode.

 

I loved seeing Gary crying on the couch, and I knew everything would spiral into Mike holding those pop cans.  

[biakbiak]

b) minnesota going red isn't that unrealistic if you take minneapolis out of the picture.

As mentioned above the last time MN was red it was 1972, even taking out their native son Mondale on the top or bottom of the ticket in two of those elections it's still a reach. And it isn't about Minneapolis alone it's about the populism of the DFL, the one state party that gathers rural union workers, farmers and the city slickers of Minneapolis/St. Paul to vote blue in national elections. I was recently visiting and the worn Paul Wellstone stickers (someone who was left of Ted Kennedy and died way to soon) outnumbered a lot of politicians who came to prominence after he died in places so rural that the big city isn't either Minneapolis or St. Paul.

Though I guess this illustrates definitively as if the bills she had championed didn't that Selina is a Democrat.

[Sesquipedalia]

Was this episode the first time we found out for sure that Selina is a Democrat?

[EdnasEdibles]

My absolute favorite line in the entire episode was Selina's freak-out fit after she found out that James might be President and she ends her rant with: “No, I’ll tell you what’s unprecedented. A tie is unprecedented. So’s becoming the first Lady President. So’s that jackoff becoming president through the back door. Okay? The rule book’s been torn up now and America’s wiping its nasty ass with it!"

 

Love this show. Love JLD. 

Edited June 15, 2015 by EdnasEdibles

[cassandle]

It seemed like Tom James knew this was going to happen in his favor...plus the fact they had the Selina/Tom discussing a Tom as President option, or not discussing in regards to Karen.

 

Since Hugh Laurie appeared I've been trying to figure out if Tom James has some ulterior motives or not.  Sometimes he seems like he's secretly evil but since watching HL on Veep I've remembered how much I love him so I've been rewatching House and since House is pretty devious my judgement may be clouded.

 

Either way, if they keep Hugh Laurie around I don't care what happens plot-wise.

[Traveller519]

This episode had the rest of the cast so high on their game, it actually felt like a bit of downer from Ben, who has been so fantastic this season. But Mike was just perfect Mike. Competent and on his game while also his usual hapless self. "They called Ohio. Wait...for O'Brien. I guess I should have lead with that."

 

Sue and her friend watching the results from the White House were spectacular. It was like the Furlong, Doyle, Ben Greek chorus from the Debate episode last season.

 

Both Selina and Catherine telling Ericsson to think of someone besides himself is all sorts of delicious hypocrisy. 

[Victura]

Since Hugh Laurie appeared I've been trying to figure out if Tom James has some ulterior motives or not.  

I've been wondering the same thing and I think his ulterior motive was the Treasury secretary request. Other than that, I think he's shown to be pretty decent overall and it's because of that decency and capability and the quirk that might land him in the White Hose that will infuriate Selina so much.

By the way, is it actually possible for VP to be Treasury secretary or hold another office? I've never heard of such a thing.

[SpiffyShindigs]

If WA going for a Democrat was such a shock to them, I think it's safe to say there's a slightly different political landscape in the US of Veep, so MN going GOP shouldn't be a huge surprise.

[Maximum Taco]

So is that true?  If there is a tie, the House/Senate determines the outcome and if no victor the VP-elect of the President is made President?  That's....different.

 

Not the VP elect of the President, just the VP elect.

 

If there's an electoral college tie, the House votes on the President with each state delegation getting 1 vote. To be elected President the candidate must recieve 26 votes. This election could end in a 25-25 tie, or could suffer from one or several states being unable to cast a vote because of internal splits between the representatives of the state preventing one of the candidates from reaching the required 26. The person who wins this election would become the President Elect.

 

The Senate elects the VP in a seperate election, here there cannot be a tie, because each Senator gets a vote and would obviously vote with their party. And even if the Senate is split 50/50, the incumbant VP (which in this world is Tom James) would cast the tie breaking vote, and obviously would vote for himself. The person who wins this election would become the VP elect.

 

By the way, yes, this means that there CAN be a scenario where a Republican President is elected with a Democratic Veep or vice-versa. This would've likely been the case if Barack Obama and Mitt Romney had tied in the electoral college. At the time the Republicans controlled the House and would have elected Romney, but the Democrats controlled the Senate and would have elected Joe Biden. So Romney would have become President with Biden as his Veep. Also the Veep is the only person that CANNOT be fired by the President, it requires both a House and Senate vote (and obviously the Senate that elected the Veep would not allow the President from the other party to dismiss him), so the President would be stuck with a Veep of the opposite party if this happened.

 

Anyway, if the House happens to tie, then the VP elect, who was elected by the Senate in a wholly seperate election and could be of either Party would become President.

 

In this world the House is close, but the Democrats control the Senate, so they are positive James will be elected VP, but they aren't sure if Meyer will be elected President or if there will be a tie.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[iMonrey]

 

Was this episode the first time we found out for sure that Selina is a Democrat?

 

Yes. There's been hints here and there but the blue and red electoral map put the question to rest once and for all. I don't think they ever really wanted to specify one way or another but by showing election night results they kind of painted themselves into a corner.

 

Although it would kind of make sense for Selina to go back to being Veep, show-wise, I don't think there's much new material to mine out of that situation. I'd say realistically this show has maybe one more season left to it.

[dcalley]

And even if the Senate is split 50/50, the incumbent VP (which in this world is Tom James) would cast the tie breaking vote, and obviously would vote for himself.

Andrew Doyle is the current vice president.

[jcin617]

Of course, the election only goes to the House and Senate if there's a tie in the actual electoral college vote.   All either party needs to do is convince one elector from a state that does not prohibit faithless electors to change their vote, which is what probably what would happen in the real world.  (There have been 157 cases of faithless electors in history).

 

And even if the Senate is split 50/50, the incumbant VP (which in this world is Tom James)

Tom James is not the incumbant VP, just the candidate.  The current VP would cast the tiebreaker.

 

But, they were quoting the 20th amendment, weren't they?   Tom James would only be acting President until the House chooses one.  There's no specification in the Constitution for what happens if the House is deadlocked indefinitely.

 

"If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified"

 

So, technically Tom James can never assume the Presidency due to inaction by the House, he would just be acting President until the House can figure out what to do.  Even if the show waves that for plot purposes, in order to make Selina his VP she would need to be confirmed by the Senate.

 

Wow, the season premiere will be like Constitution 101!

Edited June 15, 2015 by jcin617

[Maximum Taco]

Andrew Doyle is the current vice president.

 

Is he? I thought he resigned and just kind of assumed Meyer appointed James in his place. Must have not been paying close enough attention. I guess she just replaced him on the ticket and left Doyle as the current VP.

 

Anyway it doesn't really matter. As a Democrat, Doyle would likely vote for James if asked to cast the tiebreaker. Unless he just feels like he's in a shit disturber mood, which I guess is possible in this crazy world.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Traveller519]

The Senate elects the VP in a seperate election, here there cannot be a tie, because each Senator gets a vote and would obviously vote with their party. And even if the Senate is split 50/50, the incumbant VP (which in this world is Tom James) would cast the tie breaking vote, and obviously would vote for himself. The person who wins this election would become the VP elect.

 

Awesome comprehensive post! Only thing I'd note is I believe Doyle is still the incumbent VP, busy tying in fishing flies, and keeping a close eye on his prostate. If it ever came to that, I could see him going the other way out of spite. Of course that would mean the end of the show, so it probably wouldn't happen.

 

ETA: I see I left this open too long before posting, and now appear to be piling on. Sorry, MT. I still loved your post.

Wow, the season premiere will be like Constitution 101!

 

"Why are there so many amendments? I mean get it right the first time, am I right?"

Edited June 15, 2015 by Traveller519

[peeayebee]

This was so great. I loved Amy sitting in the car singing.

 

 

Why in the hell did they bring Karen back?  It was pointless in my opinion and just seemed to stress Amy out.

 

I love that Karen returned. It kind of makes sense that Selina would want her back because Karen is just a sycophant. Anyway, it cracks me up how she won't commit to an answer. 

 

Tom: What do you think, Karen?

Karen: About... something... specific or… ?

 

Also, the way she entered and kept introducing herself to everyone. The best part was when she started talking to Tom and he just closed the door on her.

 

Selina: If I do lose, I'm going to lose like a winner.

[Victura]

However, on principle alone, I don't think any member of the Senate in his or her right mind would confirm the Vice President to a separate Cabinet post - let alone one as powerful as Secretary of the Treasury. Those are first and fifth positions in the line of succession, both twenty-four/seven roles, and even members of his own party would surely say: "Yeah, no. Pick the one you want more."

I wonder if this means Tom was aiming for the Treasury post and to step off as VP once elected since he knows that's a thankless job without many real policy responsibilities.

[ganesh]

Allow myself to quote myself from last week.

 

Actually, if I know my civics, if there's a tie, then the presidency is voted on in the House, but each state only gets one vote. That would be kind of an awesome plot.

 

I am pleased to take full credit for calling it. Thank you very much for your support.

 

There was a moment--and it was really just a second--of Sue-Kent chemistry that was palpable!

 

 

I noticed it too. She didn't seem displeased. 

 

I really liked Selina's rant too, and actually getting so fed up and powerless to do anything about it. I almost think she would have rather lost than get the tie. I don't blame her for being mad at Tom James, but there's no way he could have engineered such an outcome. I don't think asking for a different post is that ulterior of a motive. 

 

Selina hasn't really ever been into being a mother to Catherine, so it's not surprising she hugged Amy first. 

[M. Darcy]

 

I don't blame her for being mad at Tom James, but there's no way he could have engineered such an outcome.

Unless he has an assistant named Blackadder and its all part of a cunning plan.

[ganesh]

I should have set that one up better. 

[pivot]

a) i knew that the election could end in a tie, but it never happened before (iirc, the closest was bush/gore) so it was interesting to see and i wanna see what happens next

b) minnesota going red isn't that unrealistic if you take minneapolis out of the picture.

You'd have to take St.Paul and the Iron Range out as well. Considering Reagan and neither Bush could pull off winning MN, I doubt Buddy Garrity could. We even voted for Dukakis.

[bguy]

Do we know what state O'Brian is from?  If he's from Minnesota that could explain why the state voted Republican.  

[Uncle Benzene]

Do we know what state O'Brian is from?  If he's from Minnesota that could explain why the state voted Republican.  

 

I'm not sure if the show actually specified, but he's clearly from Dillon, Texas.

[Traveller519]

He's a Texas Senator, but maybe he has a soft spot for the Vikings. Like some sort of weird Chris Christie type affiliation. Maybe He's originailly from Adrian Peterson's hometown.

 

Okay, I'm drifting into Senator O'Brien Fan Fiction here.

[SFoster21]

Selina is such a total champ; she has her moment of despair, but she owns the place moments later. Absolutely brilliant performing.

It makes me think of a movie character who says, "I like a woman that can take it on the chin." So do I.

Edited June 15, 2015 by SFoster21

[TV Anonymous]

The Constitution prohibits members of the Executive Branch from serving concurrently in Congress. While the Vice President serves as President of the Senate, the Office of the Vice President is part of the Executive and thus wouldn't explicitly be prohibited. However, on principle alone, I don't think any member of the Senate in his or her right mind would confirm the Vice President to a separate Cabinet post - let alone one as powerful as Secretary of the Treasury. Those are first and fifth positions in the line of succession, both twenty-four/seven roles, and even members of his own party would surely say: "Yeah, no. Pick the one you want more."

 

Well, if a First Lady of the United States can be the Ambassador to the UN without conflict of interest and without the FLOTUS position being neglected, there is no reason why the VPOTUS can not be SecTreas as well.

 

Wrong show, I know. :-)

 

But, they were quoting the 20th amendment, weren't they?   Tom James would only be acting President until the House chooses one.  There's no specification in the Constitution for what happens if the House is deadlocked indefinitely.

 

"If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified"

 

But James is not the Vice President-elect. The election is still tied and he is just as tied as O'Brien's running mate. So there is no scenario that he can be a President / acting President without being elected by the new Senate. And that is why I do not understand why they are discussing about the possibility of James becoming POTUS.

[Happytobehere]

I too wondered if Tom was up to something, but I agree that the Secretary of the Treasury was what he was really angling for. Besides, no one could have seen the scandal that most likely put Selina in the position she is right now. I suspect my House perception has creeped into Veep making my think everything HL does as Tom is deceptive.

I so wish I had seen the early seasons of Veep. Since I first started watching, I thought there was something that made me think Kent and Sue would make an awesome couple. Hearing that they were a couple and I missed it makes me so sad. I loved that look that passed between them when Sue was doing the electoral count. Damn Netflix for not having Veep available for viewing via streaming.

[TV Anonymous]

I so wish I had seen the early seasons of Veep. Since I first started watching, I thought there was something that made me think Kent and Sue would make an awesome couple. Hearing that they were a couple and I missed it makes me so sad. I loved that look that passed between them when Sue was doing the electoral count. Damn Netflix for not having Veep available for viewing via streaming.

 

Go HBO GO.

[ganesh]

Kent and Sue being a couple isn't exactly how it's portrayed on the show though. It is ridiculously entertaining, however. 

 

You can't have the same person holding two positions in the line of succession. One could easily argue conflict of interest, and separation of powers, if the VP is voting on his own policies as Treasury. 

 

I don't see why FLOTUS couldn't be appointed an ambassador. Traditionally, the first lady has a role, but it's not a legal role. Same thing though, the president nominating his spouse for an ambassadorship is kind of a conflict of interest too. She/he would have to be seriously popular with congress and overwhelmingly qualified. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Well, if a First Lady of the United States can be the Ambassador to the UN without conflict of interest and without the FLOTUS position being neglected, there is no reason why the VPOTUS can not be SecTreas as well.

Wrong show, I know. :-)

:) Good lord, what show is this?!?!?!?

House of Cards.

[tennisgurl]

 

Also, the way she entered and kept introducing herself to everyone. The best part was when she started talking to Tom and he just closed the door on her.

I always love when the cast find someone that even they cant stand. Their unified hatred of Karen totally makes her presence worth it. 

 

I hope this means that Amy is back, with Dan following. I miss their interactions with the cast. 

 

I have no idea what will happen next, but it seems like Tom is going to be president. Oy. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

I don't see why FLOTUS couldn't be appointed an ambassador. Traditionally, the first lady has a role, but it's not a legal role. Same thing though, the president nominating his spouse for an ambassadorship is kind of a conflict of interest too. She/he would have to be seriously popular with congress and overwhelmingly qualified.

I don't see that ever happening no matter how popular and qualified FLOTUS is. That's an awful lot of foreign policy influence concentrated with POTUS and his spouse. On House of Cards it really created some problems in the Underwood marriage when they had conflicting opinions on how to approach certain sensitive issues. (Plus, in that case FLOTUS was way more ambitious than qualified and not particularly popular in Congress. Her husband slid her in via a recess appointment and the show basically handwaved any further explanation about how and whether that would really ever be done.)

 

I have no idea what will happen next, but it seems like Tom is going to be president.

That's how it looks to me too since the show went to the trouble of explaining how it could happen. Plus the show is called Veep and IMO Selina really works better as the embittered underdog who wishes she were sitting at the cool kids' table.

[opus]

Any of the Veep crowd going over to The Brink for their HBO Sunday night political sitcom fix?

Edited June 16, 2015 by GaryE

[Dev F]

But James is not the Vice President-elect. The election is still tied and he is just as tied as O'Brien's running mate. So there is no scenario that he can be a President / acting President without being elected by the new Senate. And that is why I do not understand why they are discussing about the possibility of James becoming POTUS.

 

Because the current veep (Doyle) can cast a tie-breaking vote in the Senate, it's impossible for them to deadlock when choosing the vice president. Thus, even if the vote in the House is tied, either James or Montez will inevitably be elected veep by the Senate, at which point the winning candidate will become acting president until/unless the House deadlock resolves itself.

 

Edited to add: It occurs to me that this means that there are actually three possible ways the series could go next year: First, Selina could tie in the house and James could win in the Senate, at which point he becomes president and she has to suffer with the indignity of being demoted back to veep. (I'm not sure this would be possible in real life, as I don't think the acting president gets to name his own veep, since he technically still is the veep, but the episode explicitly raised this as a possibility.) Second, Selina and James could both win, and Selina then has to deal with a vice president who is powerful and beloved in all the ways she's never been. And third, Selina could win and James could lose, in which case Selina would be put in the truly awkward position of having a hostile veep from the other party -- another ambitious former female senator who would serve as her "sexy Mexy" doppelganger.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Dev F

[Maximum Taco]

But James is not the Vice President-elect. The election is still tied and he is just as tied as O'Brien's running mate. So there is no scenario that he can be a President / acting President without being elected by the new Senate. And that is why I do not understand why they are discussing about the possibility of James becoming POTUS.

 

Senators serve for 6 years each (unlike Congressmen who serve for 2 year terms), and elections are staggered so only 1/3rd of the Senate would be up for election at this time. So they could be projecting a Democratic Senate based on the Senators who are still in the middle of their terms and also the current races.

 

With a Democratic Senate, Meyer's team can be assured that Tom James, the Democratic candidate will be elected to the Office of VP, this is because unlike the House vote (which is 1 vote per state) each Senator gets a vote in the Veep election. This would make James VP Elect, regardless of who is made President Elect (or even if nobody is made President Elect)

 

Basically it's a lot easier to predict how the Senate vote will go. The House vote would be a lot more difficult to predict, since the entire House is up for election and the votes are based on State delegation, so even a House Majority for the Democrats could result in the election of the Republican candidate (or the election of no candidate) depending on the distribution of the representatives. 

Edited June 16, 2015 by Maximum Taco