S04.E22: Operation Mongoose: Part 1 / S04.E23 Operation Mongoose: Part 2

[HoodlumSheep]

Hmmm...a lot to process.

1. The pace was fast. I actually thought it was too fast. Like, they didn't give enough time for certain scenes to sink in. There was no time to process the way they were flying through everything.

2. I am SO happy Ginny finally got to do something! She was the MVP of the finale for me. she had a quiet menace about her that I liked far more than Evil Regina.

3. I thought there were going to be a lot more guest characters than what we saw, but I didn't mind. Evil Granny was awesome, evil dwarves were awesome, evil! Charming was adorable and still failed at being evil despite killing Coward! Hook. Always glad to see Blackbeard!

4. No wonder why they don't let Henry do anything. He get's stuff done, and the writers can't have that, now can they?

5. Emma was awesome taking charge. I wish they would have allowed more time for that ILY.

6. Of course Regina is a savior. Of course.

7. Robin Hood was tolerable this episode. He's much better when he doesn't have any of that stupid OQ drama stuck to him.

8. Adorable Killy was adorable! And of course he was allergic to rum. The ultimate punishment! Even though he was a coward he still managed to be braver than pre-dark one Rumple.

9. I like the Apprentice, and it looks like he's sticking around so I'm happy.

10. So Isaac's excuse was a bunch of crappy bosses? Bleh. I still really liked his character though. I guess it parallels Rumple's story with the whole bullied business.

11. I liked The Belle/Gold scene (please don't hate me!). I don't ship them, but I'm happy that Belle finally voiced what I think a lot of people have been feeling. He had a chance at happiness, he had everything he should have needed to be happy (namely Belle's love), and he just let it slip through his fingers. And of course she cares that he's dying. That's her character though; caring, etc.

12. The evil dark energy slime stuff reminded me of Little Nemo (NOT "Finding") and a bit like Ghostbusters 2.

13. I couldn't stand the way Henry was waving that key right in front of Isaac's face. He could have easily snatched it away from him.

14) so does this mean Isaac's gonna be sticking around too? Or will he be joining Zelena in the basement.

15) Of course no one thought of releasing the apprentice or anything else from that hat unless it was convenient.

16) glad Henry broke the pen so we could be done with this whole book plot.

17) confused: isaac said he was no longer the author? How? He literally just finished writing the AU?

18) Harry Potter y'all!

19) while I knew an ILY was coming at the end of the episode, I was still yelling in frustration at the tv when Emma failed to say it during the bed scene. The way Killy's face fell. :'( but I'm glad Emma plucked up the courage to say it, even though it was a little rushed.

20) there's probably other stuff I'm forgetting to say, but my post is long enough as it is. My main problem with this ep was the pacing though.

21) Onward to Camelot!

[Selina K]

Finishing your post for you before I read it all, I thought you were going to make your husband wear the guyliner for Mother's Day.

LOL, I will totally lobby for that next year!

[Rumsy4]

I thought it was a pretty good episode--the best of 4B, though the CS movie was better. Evil!Snow was amazing. But Lana was not as convincing in Snow's role. First time I've liked Henry since Season 1. I think we all predicted that he was going to be the author. The Regina permaboner was really strong in the AU--it was like an Evil Regal wet dream. The attempt to elevate OQ by stealing iconic Snowing/CS scenes was pathetic. It's cubic zirconia--not the real thing.

 

The Captain Swan was adorable!! Befuddled and cowardly Hook still being fuckstruct by his Swan, and dying for her. My heart just broke at the look in his eyes as he was "dying". Colin really killed it there (pun not intended). 

 

Emma finally told Hook she loves him. When she chickened out the first time, Hook looked so disappointed. I've seen that in so many fanfics. haha

 

I don't get why the heroes went above and beyond to save Rumple. And it backfired. Duh... The Apprentice is not very smart, is he? Oh, and Belle... You are back to being boring and stupid.

 

Whatever the reason, Emma saving Regina was ugh to me... Poor Emma. My heart... :-( I thought there was an evil smirk on her face just before she disappeared.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

 

Whatever the reason, Emma saving Regina was ugh to me... Poor Emma. My heart... :-( I thought there was an evil smirk on her face just before she disappeared.

This didn't really bother me because it shows just how heroic Emma is. Sacrificing yourself for the good of others is the true definition. It wasn't just for Regina, but for everyone else there. She knows she can overcome the darkness because she did in 4B, but she also trusts her family to save her. Having the lightest magic might even help counter the darkness. (Maybe not, but Emma might have speculated that.) Emma hasn't gotten to save the day for a long time, and now she finally gets to execute an act worthy of the Savior title.

[Mathius]

Regina's technically not the savior though right? I thought whatever happened in the AU world was fiction? If Regina was the savior wouldn't she be able to handle the darkness?

Yeah, Henry specifically said she's the savior in the AU world. Outside of it, no, she isn't.

Doesn't change the fact that yet AGAIN they have Regina be the one to save the day while Emma is the most useless main character EVER.

I don't get why the heroes went above and beyond to save Rumple.

Because if they didn't, the Dark One was going to use his dead body to go after them. Edited May 11, 2015 by Mathius

[Shanna Marie]

I'm going to have to rewatch when it hits OnDemand because although they didn't break into programming, half the screen was covered in radar images and lists of weather watches and warnings, which was rather distracting. At any rate, I would say that this episode perfectly encapsulates what this series is -- when it's good, it's very good, and its strength is in the little moments that have great impact (the moments the writers seem to think are boring). When it's bad, it's awful, and the awfulness tends to center around their bizarre obsession with the all-holy Saint Regina.
 

However, does this mean that all the other realms aren't real?

My read was that it was just the AU that wasn't real because it was a world Isaac created. It was weird that they were saying the past couldn't be changed to bring Neal back to life when the entire AU involved changed pasts or else these people wouldn't have been who and what they were. Maybe it was just that they couldn't write a person who was dead into the AU.

 

But what I didn't understand is using Regina's blood to alter the book. Apparently she's a Savior now? Even if she was a light magic equivalent to Emma, why does it work?

That made no sense and was a clear case of the Mary Sue Syndrome. She switched roles with Snow, not Emma, in the AU. I can see Emma being written to not be the Savior in that world, but why would either Rumple or Isaac write Regina as the Savior? That was even more pulled out of thin air than the light magic.

 

Hey,  does this mean we don't have to have more Imp Rumple flashbacks?

It could mean we have more of them, if they do flashbacks of Rumple as Dark One to parallel with Dark Emma.

 

And I guess in a way Regina was kind of "a" savior even if not "the" savior since she sacrificed her "happily ever after" to save Henry's life.  She could have gone in and stopped the wedding and gotten what she wanted, but she turned around and stopped Gold from killing Henry, even though she didn't really know or believe that Henry was her son.

Or she could have actually run in and interrupted the wedding instead of standing in the doorway for half an hour. Not that I'm complaining about not solving everything with an Outlaw Queen TLK.

 

And boy, Robin's a jerk in every reality -- mooning over another woman at his wedding, and then stopping on his way out of his wedding to emote all over another woman. I mean, dude, at your wedding? He's so very fickle.

 

Flustered, not entirely competent Hook may have been the cutest thing ever.

 

I hope we don't get a whole season of Dark Emma. For once, I hope this is one of those cliffhangers they totally undo before the end of the next episode, and then the actual arc is about something else.

[Katherine]

Loved all the Hook/Emma moments. As for Emma becoming the dark one, I choose to believe it wasn't just about saving Regina; it was about saving everyone. Once the darkness had finished with Regina, wouldn't it have moved on to someone else? And since Emma had the dagger and is the savior, she was the only one with the ability to tether it to someone. And Emma is Emma, so she would never consider tethering it to anyone else. Plus, like she said, her parents managed to get rid of the darkness in her once before so there's hope they can do it again.

There weren't as many Emma/Regina moments as I was expecting and I'm grateful for that. I'm also happy that Emma immediately went running to find Hook when they got back, and that her last words before saving the day were to him. Even though it was still a bit rushed, I feel like the writers were trying to make up for the lack of Emma/Hook payoff in the 4A finale.

[mjgchick]

Killian sacrificed his life for two total strangers as well. How is his sacrifice not as important than Regina's? This show. At least Emma did get to save the day in the end because she knows her loved ones will do anything to get her back. That is some serious character growth from the Emma from the pilot who had one of the saddest birthdays ever. She's a Libra through and through.

[Mathius]

Loved all the Hook/Emma moments. As for Emma becoming the dark one, I choose to believe it wasn't just about saving Regina; it was about saving everyone. Once the darkness had finished with Regina, wouldn't it have moved on to someone else?

Yes, it would have. Even so, they just had to have her say "you worked too hard for your happy ending!" to Regina. Oy!

There weren't as many Emma/Regina moments as I was expecting and I'm grateful for that.

Heck, most of the ones that were there were actually about CS and OQ. The SQ shippers will be pissed off, but what else is new? Edited May 11, 2015 by Mathius

[sportsgirl]

At first, I was annoyed that the "Heroes and Villians" swap wasn't actually a swap -- instead of the villians getting their happy endings, they just took on the characteristics of heroes (the Light One), with the heroes becoming villians (the glorious Evil Snow and her black guard of dwarves & grannies). But it wasn't consistent -- Snow/Regina was a 1-for-1 character swap to the very details (including the unbelievable age switch?), while freakin' Rumple was slaying Ogres and kissing babies; meanwhile, Zelana is really the only villian getting her happy ending. But then I realized -- this is Issac's version of "Heroes and Villians." Of course it sucks/lacks the actual tagline. He's a hack and he can't tell a story anyone would want to read.

If it's a fictional AU, why do the characters retain their memories? I could see Emma & Henry doing so, but everyone else? It doesn't make sense to me; no free will or choice was involved, it was only Isaac's pen flipping everyone out of character, so to speak -- so why can they remember it?

I can't stand to see Rumple redeemed/forgiven one more time. This show tells us time and time again that harming others in pursuit of one's own happiness is what defines a villian, but for some reason, Rumple continues to get the constant pass, especially from Belle. That girl needs an intervention.

[Katherine]

Yes, it would have. Even so, they just had to have her say "you worked too hard for your happy ending!" to Regina. Oy!

Yes, that was the only thing that really bugged me about that scene. But I guess it was to be expected since in the season premiere Emma promised to get Regina's happy ending (ugh). I really hope the writers lay off the Emma/Regina 'friendship' next season and allow Snow, Charming, and Hook to lead the charge to save Emma.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Katherine

[Mathius]

I can't stand to see Rumple redeemed/forgiven one more time. This show tells us time and time again that harming others in pursuit of one's own happiness is what defines a villian, but for some reason, Rumple continues to get the constant pass, especially from Belle. That girl needs an intervention.

I hope he isn't forgiven either, at least not without extreme work on his part. The AU just proved beyond all doubt that the Dark One curse is NOT the root of his evil, it only amplifies it. Even without it, even as "the Light One", he still made the selfish choice and remorselessly attempted to murder a kid in order to preserve his own privileges.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Mathius

[LizaD]

Because if they didn't, the Dark One was going to use his dead body to go after them.

I wasn't clear on that. Was Rump actually going to die? I thought what they were saying was he still had a little bit of "ability to love" in him ergo the Dark One-Rump we've seen is actually a bit tame. But if that last bit was gone Dark One Rump was going to go all nuclear on them but it would still be Rump no? Just one without the last bit of humanity left.

[TwistedandBored]

"Regina worked too hard for her happy ending"

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Exactly how I felt. 

 

The writers don't even care if the audience knows who is their fav anymore. 

[Mathius]

I wasn't clear on that. Was Rump actually going to die? I thought what they were saying was he still had a little bit of "ability to love" in him ergo the Dark One-Rump we've seen is actually a bit tame. But if that last bit was gone Dark One Rump was going to go all nuclear on them but it would still be Rump no? Just one without the last bit of humanity left.

Eh, same basic thing. Yeah, he wouldn't technically die since his soul would remain in his body, but without his heart he can't really said to be Rump, just an evil beast bent on destruction.

[jcin617]

Dark One Emma left her dagger behind. Someone just needs to pick it up, summon her back and command her not to use her magic or harm anyone. Which is too easy, so I'm sure they'll change the Dark One rules.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Dark One Emma left her dagger behind. Someone just needs to pick it up, summon her back and command her not to use her magic or harm anyone. Which is too easy, so I'm sure they'll change the Dark One rules.

Oops, um... you can't summon her because um... Savior! Yeah!

 

(Actually we just wanted that dramatic shot of "Emma Swan" written on the dagger!)

[pcta]

Rumple having a stasis break looks to me that they may be writing him out. Probably at Roberts request.

And no one here cares but my Rumbelle heart is breaking.

Actually, I do.

[OnceUponAJen]

Why do you (collective you) think they let bystanders see the final scene, of which BTS pics got on the internet? I know they said we couldn't tell from them what was actually going on, but it was exactly what I thought it would be.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Why do you (collective you) think they let bystanders see the final scene, of which BTS pics got on the internet? I know they said we couldn't tell from them what was actually going on, but it was exactly what I thought it would be.

Sometimes I think they believe we're not all that smart. Many of the twists they believe are shocking have been speculated in their entirety already by fans. This finale pretty much went exactly the way I thought it would. Nothing was a big shocker.

 

(Except Doc and Hook dying, but I found that to be lame since they were back in like 20 minutes.)

Edited May 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[regularlyleaded]

What I got from this finale:
 
If you were still a fan of this show and, in the overall, still positive about everything they've done thus far, then you're still a happy fan. If 4B didn't make you question why you watch this show, nothing will. On the other hand, if you were someone who already had one foot out the door going into the finale, then this isn't going to keep you from completely walking out. For some this may be the hard shove they needed to break free.
 
As usual it was all too rushed, too much nonsense (and not the "sunshine and rainbows and it's so fluffy I don't care" kind of nonsense, but the "beat your head bloody against the wall" kind), so much whitewashing of Woegina (and Rumpel) that even Tom Sawyer said "Enough already. You got it all, now give me my paintbrush back." and frankly, it all gave me horrible, nightmarish flashbacks of Woegina Sue's ass-plosion of light magic from season 3B's "Kansas". 
 
And oh, Dark One Emma? Reeeally? Emma sacrifices herself to save someone (and I’m fanwanking to also save the town because I can’t with St. Victimus deserving anything), and the result of said sacrifice is that she's going to be resurrected as the Evilest Evil that Ever Eviled? Is that where you're going with this garbage, Show? Really? Really????? There are no words for my ire.

...Hey writers, I have a suggestion where you can stick this storyline...

 
---
 

I hope we don't get a whole season of Dark Emma. For once, I hope this is one of those cliffhangers they totally undo before the end of the next episode, and then the actual arc is about something else.

I think if I were at all invested in this show anymore, my hope would be that season 5 episode 1 starts with all of this being someone's horrible nightmare.

For now, I'm going to go to bed and pretend none of this happened…

 

(edited because I quoted the wrong thing. I'd blame being tired but it's mostly because I'm just that disgusted with this show right now that I can't use cut-and-paste properly. GAH!)

Edited May 11, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[OnceUponAJen]

Sometimes I think they believe we're not all that smart. (When we are!)

Heck, this forum seems to get it right most of the time.

[Shanna Marie]

Heck, this forum seems to get it right most of the time.

We pretty much managed an almost beat-by-beat prediction of most of the finale, including the conclusion and cliffhanger, based on a few scraps of spoilers. It's easy to do when the writers are so predictable and keep going back to the same things over and over again.

 

But in the interest of being positive (and restraining myself from going ultra-snarky all over Twitter), one thing I really love about Hook and Emma is that the forehead touch has become kind of their "thing." They do that thing where they lean their foreheads against each other before they move on to the main kiss, or sometimes during the main kiss. They started that during the big smooch in the season 3 finale, where there was the pause in the middle with the forehead touch, and they've done that a lot since then. So I liked that they did that instead of kissing along with the quick "I love you" before she went to sacrifice herself. It seemed somehow more intimate, and that gesture seems to convey both the love and the friendship between them.

[pezgirl7]

Why do you (collective you) think they let bystanders see the final scene, of which BTS pics got on the internet? I know they said we couldn't tell from them what was actually going on, but it was exactly what I thought it would be.

I think the general audience doesn't read spoilers online. Even if 200,000 people knew about the spoilers, which is a very generous number I think, that's still less than 4% of the total viewers.

[MMR]

Loved the ep and lots of Regina screen time. Lana was good as bandit Regina, Ginnifer not really as Evil Snow, it looked goofy! Colin was good to look at! Regina was already a savior with light magic back in season 3, so no surprise there. Hope we see more of that next season! Rumpelstiltskin is irredeemable, even as a hero he makes evil selfish choice, hope he dies in fiery death!

Can't wait for dark Emma.

Edited May 11, 2015 by MMR

[Emma]

Captain Swan. Can I just wrap them up in a nice fluffy bubble and take them to a safe place?

I really do not want Dark Emma. Jen will no doubt kill it in a new role but I do not trust these writers to handle it properly. On the bright side? Maybe Emma, Captain Swan, and the Charmings will be more at the forefront of next season? Of course they'll probably just use it to assassinate them further.

Damn you show. I wish I could quit you.

And yeah nice try Outlaw Queen. The knock off scarf scene sums up your relationship.

Rumple be gone. Even Carlyle cannot save this character for me anymore.

[KAOS Agent]

I know I was supposed to be entertained and you'd think the amount of rum I consumed would have helped, but I was really bored by the whole episode. Maybe it's just where this season has led me, but I think too much of it was because these people had literally no free will, so everyone's actions were just so (w)rote if you'll forgive the pun.

 

A few notes:

 

- Isaac seemed to be annoyed that veterans were considered heroes. Both the boss and customer looked to be mid-forties so WWII vets and I just want to say how much Isaac sucks for resenting the fact that some scared kids went off to Europe/Pacific to save the world from some truly horrible people and returned to the thanks of a grateful nation. Personal note: I was discussing my grandfather and his experiences today with my mom and he was a WWII vet who came home very screwed up by the war, so I'm very, very touchy about this subject at the moment. Fuck you, Isaac!

 

- Everything Captain Swan was excellent. The sword play as a metaphor for sex was particularly inspired. Those two are awesome in any reality.

 

- As for Outlaw Queen, the less said the better. What a pale imitation they have of all the romances on this show. Even Rumbelle had a better basis than them and that's a seriously crappy romance at the moment.

 

- Evil!Snow was fun, but she doesn't have enough cleavage to be truly evil. I did enjoy the way Ginny played it though.

 

-Bandit!Regina was really pretty bland. You see what happens when you're a "hero," Regina? You're boring. Lana has always enjoyed the luxury of playing the over the top, scenery chewing villain and I think it showed that when she was stuck in the thankless role of bandit, she wasn't all that interesting either.

 

- Dark!Emma is not at all interesting to me. She has zero motivation, True Love's Kiss would cure her of it and why the hell didn't they just throw Dark One Rumpel over the town line? Problem solved.

 

- Once again Regina gets her happy ending while Emma & her loved ones suffer. What else is new?

 

I'm just so over this show at the moment, I don't know if I want to continue. The adorableness that is Captain Swan is the only thing I'm remotely interested in and God knows they'll fuck that up like they've done everything else.

[patchwork]

I'm surprised Robin didn't tie the makeshift bandage with his teeth while giving Regina bedroom eyes or his best attempt at bedroom eyes at any rate.

 

Regina suddenly having saviour blood is ridiculous but it's not the rage inducing asspull of last season's white magic without a heart.

 

Emma as the Dark One has the potential to be very interesting and I love Arthurian Legends which is why I can say with complete confidence this show is not going to do either justice. Uther and Arthur for example are totally going to be cursed ware-dragons. 

 

I know she's not popular around here but I'd like Lily to be part of saving Emma, and with Elsa gone Emma should have a friend she can hang out with. Regina is never going to be suitable for that, not to me. Civil co-parents I can live with because it's not like either one of them have a choice in that.  

Edited May 11, 2015 by patchwork

[Blue Plastic]

And boy, Robin's a jerk in every reality -- mooning over another woman at his wedding, and then stopping on his way out of his wedding to emote all over another woman. I mean, dude, at your wedding? He's so very fickle.

If they are trying to make him seem like an attractive "catch" for Regina, they are failing miserably.  He falls in and out of love/lust at the drop of a hat.  Doesn't bode well for the future of Outlaw Queen.  Interesting that his alternate reality persona was not one whit different from his usual one!  I'm beginning to think he and Zelena deserve each other.

[Souris]

Heck, most of the ones that were there were actually about CS and OQ. The SQ shippers will be pissed off, but what else is new?

 

Oh, the SQ shippers are in high dudgeon. Total Twit snit! That's the only thing that's pleasing me about the finale.

 

I really hope the writers lay off the Emma/Regina 'friendship' next season and allow Snow, Charming, and Hook to lead the charge to save Emma.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's funny.

 

So let me get this straight: The Author is called out as a villain for rewriting reality to make himself win and give himself a happy ending. But it’s no harm, no foul when Regina and Rumple go after the same thing -- in fact, everyone wholeheartedly supports Regina in this endeavor, and even holds a bake sale to raise funds.

 

Riiiight. Gotcha.

 

Edited May 11, 2015 by Souris

[daxx]

I seriously expect Hook to hold it over the Charmings' heads that they killed him in the AU. And I don't want to hear any more out of Charming about not trusting Hook. It should come up at every family holiday dinner.

Oh, Dave, do you remember the time you stabbed me in the back?

Watch out for Charming, he's a back stabber!

[KingOfHearts]

Regina was such a plot device in this episode. So breaking up her boyfriend's wedding was the key to solving the episode's problem. Mkay. Then we need her blood to write up a new story. Mkay. Finally, she's the target of the darkness so Emma has to make a big sacrifice. Mkay.

Every week a character gets the shaft and has to be a plot device. I guess Regina finally got her turn. I'd cry, "Lazy writing!", but it was AU so it doesn't matter, apparently. Still not sure what to think of this episode.

Edited May 11, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[OnceUponAJen]

Oh, Dave, do you remember the time you stabbed me in the back?

Watch out for Charming, he's a back stabber!

Yeah, anything Charming has to say and it'll be, "Bloody hell, mate! You killed me in the AU!" I mean....how do you respond to that? :)

[Serena]

Why do you (collective you) think they let bystanders see the final scene, of which BTS pics got on the internet? I know they said we couldn't tell from them what was actually going on, but it was exactly what I thought it would be.

Basically, because they didn't have any choice. They filmed in the middle of a street - they insist on setting those damn finale cliffhangers in the middle of Storybrooke every time - and it's the same way the S1, S2, S3A finale got spoiled. 

 

I could see the "Long Live Regina" pin mocking me.

[Zuleikha]

Regina as savior makes sense because Bandit Regina is clearly the protagonist of Isaac Heller's Heroes and Villains world, as established in the convention scene (and general logic). It's not because she saved Henry--although that helped confirm her role--it's that was her role in the story.

 

I wish the AU had been multiple episodes because clearly this is what made the writers excited, but also because it would have been nice to get more of the Heroes and Villain story. One thing I wasn't clear on was whether Robin/Regina were actually written to have feelings to torment Regina further or whether that was supposed to be their real love. I did love that Regina rejected Robin as her happy ending in favor of saving Henry. It felt like a nice rebuttal to Emma's belief that Regina's happy ending should be love when Regina's already said that it wasn't. I also kind of liked that Robin didn't leave the chapel for Regina because I like to live in the land of denial where I feel the writers are hinting that Regina/Robin aren't actually a true love pairing. Although I am weak, and I do like them when I get scenes like the tavern scene where I remember all the chemistry that had in season 3 before the Marian/Zelena stupidity screwed it all up.

 

Even though Snow/Regina reversed roles in key ways, they didn't reverse histories. We know that Snow was not a good-hearted abuse survivor but always loved evil because she had her line about loving James despite his cruelty. Bandit Regina wasn't a formerly pampered princess, but was an abandoned child of uncertain history. I thought both Lana and Ginnifer did great jobs of showing those differences in their portrayals. I did think Snow/Charming's true love came through in the AU, but it was like everything else, twisted in expression. But every time Charming made a suggestion, Snow actually listened to it.

 

I really liked the Frozen arc in 4A, but with the benefit of hindsight, I think it would have been better for the show had the writers not gotten permission to it. The Marian/Zelena stuff would have worked a lot better in 4A if it had just been a continuous thing of Marian returns from the dead and Robin goes back to her but is torn by also loving Regina. Robin wouldn't have had to be portrayed as so fickle. Also, the writers probably would have been willing to more explicitly foreshadow the Zelena reveal if they didn't need to sit on it for so long. The author plot could have moved more quickly and possibly sensibly. Presumably, Rumple would have cleaved himself from the dagger to release the Dark One at the end rather than having this stupid dying heart thing that feels like a retcon with everything else we've seen of Rumple's predecessor, and without less time spent on Frozen, more time could have been spent exploring Rumple's motivation. Also, Rumple wouldn't have had to go quite so dark and maybe it would be easier to cheer for Rumple/Belle (I do feel bad for Rumpbelle fans, but not bad enough to cheer for a relationship that reads as abusive to me and consists of Belle having an inexplicable faith in Rumple's never-actually-seen goodness).

[jhlipton]

Meanwhile, somewhere else on the Internet, I saw posts explaining that Goodwin was not such a good Evil Queen, and how fabulous Parilla was at playing both the Evil Queen and the Bandit roles.

 

[meekly raises hand] 

I thought Lana did pretty good as the Outlaw and Ginny was kind of bland as the Evil Queen.

 

But I love Camelot and almost all things Arthurian and I'm sure TS,TW will mess it up, just like they've messed up everything else.  What does it say when the most popular episode takes place in an alternate universe where everything is reset just as the countdown clock ticks over to 0, all due to Regina ex Machina.

 

There's going to have to be nothing worth watching next fall to get me back on board.

[MedievalGirl]

So many of the big details have been mentioned there was some wonderful small ones
-The ABC logo on the old TV

Hook awkwardly holding the sword in the background when EvilSnow confronts Emma
Evil Grannie
EvilSnow's We're a team speech
The cosplayers at the Author's book signing
I really need a black velvet elizabethan gown with silver lace and crystals down the front. I just do. 
Lily guarding Emma was a nice touch

Other stuff
So the Dark One is Venom from Spiderman? It kinda works.
Will is reduced to the back of a head in a wedding party shot, off screen babysitting, and not being loved by his girlfriend. Poor guy. 

[MaiLuna]

I really enjoyed this episode. It was entertaining. I'd have liked a bit less Author and more of the EF adventures, but it was fun.

 

CS have really stolen a piece of my heart.

 

I felt the whole darkness thing at the end was a bit rushed, and I hated that Emma did it for Regina. I think it wasn't only for her, but they way it came across wasn't nice. We've had enough Emma/Regina this season to last us 3 lifetimes. I'm glad Rumbelle didn't kiss or share ILYs at least.

 

I love the Enchanted Forest. It's so much fun to see adventures there.

 

I liked Henry being a hero for once and seeing the EF. I don't mind him being the new author, I'm glad he broke the pen.

 

I liked Snow as the evil queen and Regina as bandit, she was still snarky. I prefer her over all the other versions of Regina.

 

I don't get how Isaac is saying that for once the villains are getting happy endings when they are heroes in the book. The villains just have the names of traditional heroes but that's it. People acting as heroes are getting happy endings so the moral is the same.

 

I didn't like Regina being the "savior" but at this point it doesn't surprise me. At least I think they're done with her flip flopping. I'd have liked to see Regina and Snow talking after the AU. But this show doesn't do repercussions.  

 

I can't say I disliked OQ in the AU world. They seemed to have a bit more chemistry.

 

I don't mind Emma being the dark one if it's resolved next season, but it's gonna last for the next few seasons or until the end of the series, I am not okay with that.

 

I love how some of the true characters came out. Hook was a coward but stood up in the end, Rumpel was a hero but he still chose wrong in the end. And I find it hilarious that Henry keeps being Rumpel's undoing over and over again. He's the reason he died with Pan, he's the reason Belle found the gauntlet and kicked him out of town, and now he ruined his hero fantasy.

 

I am not looking forward to the summer hiatus...and I wanna know who was supposed to be sharing hot kisses? Was it cut?

Edited May 11, 2015 by MaiLuna

[KAOS Agent]

“Come on Henry! Please be dead! Please be dead! Please be dead!” - That moment where you realize the Author is a member of FabulousTater's cult.

[Camera One]

I came home late, but couldn't resist watching it even though it's way past midnight and I have to wake up for work early tomorrow.  I guess I'll log my thoughts tomorrow.

 

Just wanted to say that I'm sure finding the dumbass sorcerer next season will be a huuuuuuuuuuuge help.  

Edited May 11, 2015 by Camera One

[thuganomics85]

A little late for this one.

 

Overall, I had fun, but I preferred the second hour to the first.  Part of it was the open introduction were they only focused on Issac was a bit of a chore to get through, and I'm not a massive fan of Henry, so I wasn't wild about his adventures with AU Regina.  But when Emma and AU Hook joined the party in the second hour, it got fun for me.  AU Hook was my favorite of the bunch: thought Colin did a great job at making him meek, a bit wimpy, and not confident, but showing that he still had the good qualities about him, that made his sacrifice make sense and be touching.  And I loved how this version was allergic to rum.  That's was cold, Issac.  Or Rumpel. Whoever's idea that was!

 

I also got a kick out of Evil Snow (Ginnifer seem to be having a blast) and Evil Doormat Charming (complete with evil guy-liner and just the right amount of facial hair.  A full goatees would have been too obvious.)  AU Regina was OK, but I felt like she was still very similar to normal Regina, and while I'm normally love Robert Carlyle, I felt like he kept slipping into Regular "Hello Dearie!" Rumpel accidentally, so it took me out of his scenes.

 

Kind of bummed that they could find a way to work in Maleficent in the AU.  And I'm pretty sure no Will.  I don't think he was in this episode at all.  Really, what was the point of dragging him from the Wonderland spin-off.  In the end, he was just Belle's boyfriend, who never had a chance.

 

So, Regina's Redemption Tour continues, as she sacrifices herself to save Henry, so she gets Robin back in Storybrooke.  Yay? Meanwhile, Rumpel has all the darkness yanked out of him, but is now in stasis, until they can figure out what to do with him.  But Belle is totally back with being gaga for him.  Apparently, being villains is quite the turn on still.

 

Lily is going to hang around and try and find out who her father is.  I got nothing: we know he can turn into a dragon, so that's it.  Err... Pete's Dragon?  Mushu from Mulan?

 

But that pesky "Darkness."  It tries to kill Regina, so Emma stabs it with the dagger, and I guess is going to become the new Dark One.  But wait!  She can be saved!  They just need to find... Merlin!  I wonder what kind of Merlin we're going to be getting?!  Will be the older Sam Neil type Merlin from the TV movie in the 90s?  Or maybe a younger, Colin Morgan type, like the one from the BBC?  Or maybe a completely different take?!  So many options!

[queenbee]

Narnia would have entered the public domain last year had Congress not extended the copyright law to something like 90 years beyond the author's death -- ironically thanks to Walt Disney. If that copyright law expired, then all of Disney's works would enter the public domain and bam, it would be ANARCHY. I don't think Disney's paying for that, which is probably why they chose something like Arthurian legend, which has no copyright law.

 

Thank Merlin for that. Otherwise we would have back story of how the White Witch only ever wanted to be a hero, but because Evil Aslan neglected to give her Turkish Delight for her birthday she was driven to the dark side.

 

Like some others I am still not watching, but these boards are proving harder to quit. :) Based on the comments I might get around to watching on Hulu but yeah... I'm not sure there's enough to keep drawing me back anymore. This show is beyond silly now. More retconning and nonsense with the Dark Curse -- why would the Sorcerer force some poor schmuck to be the Dark One? Ends justify the means? Did they seriously forget about that poor old man in the hat until they needed him to do something? How could the apprentice cleave Rumple from the dagger in that way, but the premise of 4a indicated that it was done in another manner? Why wasn't this tried before? I presume Rumple will conveniently remain in stasis until the plot requires his knowledge of the Dark Curse to locate Emma. And Zelena is still pregnant.

[Curio]

We pretty much managed an almost beat-by-beat prediction of most of the finale, including the conclusion and cliffhanger, based on a few scraps of spoilers. It's easy to do when the writers are so predictable and keep going back to the same things over and over again.

 

Heck, we were actually kind of close with the deus ex machina poll for the finale. Just replace 'whiteout' with 'Regina's savior blood' (even I couldn't think of something that out there, apparently).

 

I have to give props to the writers for making me like Henry during this episode. But with that being said, I'll admit that I cheered when Isaac knocked Henry on his ass and walked into the scene saying, "please be dead, please be dead." Ha!

 

Yet again, the writers show how Robin is completely devoid of any personality when he's essentially the exact same character in the alternate universe. First, they passed on the chance of altering his personality during the Shattered Sight spell, and then they didn't know what to do with him here either. You may have a flat character if the writers can't even think of a way to flip your personality around for fun.

 

And I'll just repeat what everyone has said: yes—this finale should have replaced the Queens of Darkness as the main arc of 4B, and yes—befuddled Hook was terrific.

 

(Oh, and I like how The Charmings apologized to Hook for killing him in the alternate universe where they couldn't control their actions, yet I doubt we'll ever get a conversation between Regina and Snow where they discuss how awful life was for bandit Snow or get an apology from Regina for attempting to burn Snow at the stake.)

Edited May 11, 2015 by Curio

[Ariah]

Or maybe the writers will merge Merlin and Morgana and make them one character, a female somehow related to Regina?...

 

(I'm sorry for putting this out there now)

[Writing Wrongs]

I saw this in a review:

* Props to TVLine reader A.D. for catching the date of Isaac’s flashback — namely, that December 1966 is when Walt Disney died, and the Apprentice said the previous Author had just passed.

 

Cool.

[Worsel]

 

Eh, if Robin Hood can survive Kevin Costner & his "English" accent, he can survive Once.

Arrrrrggghhhh!  I will neither forgive nor forget (no matter how much I WANT to forget) how that movie made such a beloved character completely lame.  The only redeemable aspect of that movie was Alan Rickman.  I'll gladly watch Sean's Robin Hood every time over Costner's.  I think Sean is a good actor, he can only do so much with lame plot/writing.

[Spartan Girl]

Too bad it took Emma letting herself become the new Dark One to actually tell Hook she loved him.

I must say this episode was fun. Bandit Regina, Quuen Snow, Knight Rumple, and even Wimpy Hook were all a hoot. I still think the first half of the season was better than this one though.

It's cool we get Camelot next season but I still really want Aladdin dammit.

[Morrigan2575]

Freaking loved this finale. Loved what they did with Regina, she's my favorite character and I loved that the keep having her realize that her happy ending isn't a guy or true love with a guy. It's all about her family and finding friendship/acceptance.

Loved what they did with Henry. I always thought he would turn out to be The Author, before the reveal that it was a position, not a person. So having Henry end up as the next Author was great.

Curious to see what Gold is like without the Darkness. I love Robert Carlyle but I don't think Rumple will be as interesting if he's good or worse cowardly.

Really looking forward to the S5A setup. Love the of Emma's friends/family having to save the Savior.

[marieYOTZ]

Oh, Dave, do you remember the time you stabbed me in the back?

Watch out for Charming, he's a back stabber!

This show would be a lot more fun if the characters were constantly making reference to their convoluted pasts. As it is it's in this weird area of taking itself too seriously to be clever and truly funny and not taking itself seriously enough to be truly compelling (the promise was there in season 1, but it devolved really fast with all their half season arcs)

~~~~

I can see it's not a popular opinion here, but i like Regina and i like the idea of a SQ pairing in theory, although i can't imagine it playing out convincingly on screen - i think everyone involved would probably just be too uncomfortable to make it work. That being said, i liked the stuff with emma and regina, including the ending - although i was kind of like "bitch move, Regina" when she just went to stand idly in Hood's arms after getting out of the dark tendrils.

When Regina first told Zelena (last week?) that Hood was not her happy ending, i suspected it was just lip-service to the idea of happiness consisting of more than scoring a dude, same with the "my happy ending is not a man" line this week. Saying it is nice, but not immediately contradicting it with what happens would be nicer.

I'm normally a canon shipper (i was a hell of a snow/charming shipper back in season 1, ahhhh memories) - so it's an unusual feeling for me to feel so cold towards a pairing like CS. I like Hook though, and i'm guessing i'd like the pairing if i hadn't gotten caught up in the idea of SQ at the beginning of season 2. Hook in the AU was entertaining, i'll say that!

OQ on the otherhand i would like in no universe. I just can't get past Hood's perpetual dopeyness. I was okay with the idea of a love interest for Regina, but i was hoping for something a little (re: a lot) more compelling.

Sorry, that was a lot of couples rambling i needed to get off my chest.

As for the lremise of the finale itself - i thought it was a good idea, but could have been executed better. it just felt like they didn't have quite as much fun with it as they could have - didn't shoot for the highest heights of AU zaniness.. Ah well. Onwards to Camelot we go.

[shipperx]

Killian sacrificed his life for two total strangers as well. How is his sacrifice not as important than Regina's? This show. At least Emma did get to save the day in the end because she knows her loved ones will do anything to get her back. That is some serious character growth from the Emma from the pilot who had one of the saddest birthdays ever. She's a Libra through and through.

I don't think its about power of magnitude. I think its because the problem was the book. They were trying to stop the book, and Emma and Henry weren't in the books plot. And killian wasnt a protagonist. He was a deck hand. He probably didn't get a narrative in the book so his sacrifice wouldn't change the ending.

Second I don't think Emma was just saving Regina. They didn't say the dark one was taking over Regina. It was snuffing out the light. It had just pelt from the apprentice. And either it was going to keep going person to person etc until it snuffed out the light. It could only be tethered to one person and therefore fought if the dagger was used. Emma wasn't saving just Regina. She was saving everyone.