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  1. I think one of the earliest mistakes was making Bae grow into Neal. In theory, I like the idea of the saviour ending up with Rumplestiltskin's lost son, but the execution did not work. Part of the problem was that Neal looked and acted nothing like Bae. Bae was a very sweet, sympathetic character and Neal just wasn't. I could buy that he became a thief and changed in many ways thanks to having to survive on his own, but there was nothing (to me, at least) remotely recognizable as Bae in Neal's character. The disconnect was too big. The other part of the problem was that once they made Bae Henry's father and Emma's love interest, then his character became more about that. I would have preferred the focus to stay on his relationship with Rumple, but once he was introduced as Henry's father, Henry was always going to (in theory) be his priority. It took away from the Rumple/Bae dynamic, and as a result, their reunion wasn't as impactful as it should have been. I have the same issue with Rumple and Belle's relationship (along with a whole host of other issues related to its abusive undertones). I would have much preferred Bae, rather than Belle, as Rumple's true love and moral compass. The father-son story felt more genuine and rootable. The Rumbelle relationship always felt wrong to me (other than maybe in Skin Deep). Along the same lines, I think it was a mistake to kill Neal. There was so much potential in his relationship with Rumple, and I think they could have done a lot more with it. I would have much preferred killing off Belle instead. I think part of the reason they killed Neal was to pave the way for a Captain Swan end game, and while I'm glad that they realized Hook was a better match than Neal, it felt like a sloppy way of not having to deal with a love triangle and have Emma make a clear choice. I would have preferred to see her actively choose Hook over Neal, and then maybe see her and Neal as friendly co-parents. My biggest wish for this show is that they had done more with Captain Swan. We got a lot of great moments, but it always seemed like the writers were scared to go full force with them. I would have preferred a Snowing style true love's kiss to the weird true love's tackle (which Emma could have and would have done for pretty much anyone) we got, for example. I also feel like we missed some important moments in their relationship. Instead of retreading plots about relationship angst and lies, I would have liked to see more of them settling in as a couple. I also think the writers could have done much better with LGBT rep. I enjoyed Alice and Robyn, but it felt like too little too late. Finally, I want to pre-emptively echo the posts that are bound to come about all the ways the writers messed up Regina's redemption. I don't even know where to start there.
  2. Wow. Nothing made any sense. The dialogue was super cheesy. Regina had too much screen time while all the other characters had too little. And none of the emotional scenes felt earned. So in other words, I suppose it was a fitting end to the series. I loved the first three seasons of this show, and I always had such high hopes for it. But it never lived up to its potential, and as time wore on, the writing strayed so far from what the show should have been. Still, Captain Swan will always be one of my very favorite TV couples. And I'll always love Rumple's backstory with Bae (even though the writers ended up completely botching it). I pretty much gave up on it this season, but for a few years there, Once Upon a Time was a weirdly important part of my life. I'll miss it, and I'll miss following the spoilers forum here!
  3. This finale is every bit as disappointing as the series as a whole turned out to be, but reading this thread is making me smile! It's the end of an era.
  4. In a show known for disappointments and wasted potential, it seems fitting that they saved the biggest disappointment for last.
  5. Couldn't the coronation ceremony be for Emma and Hook's daughter? I think they called it a coronation ceremony for Baby Neal at the end of season 3. It would make sense that that's how the baby name is revealed. Is this wishful thinking?
  6. Once Upon a Time has been one of the only shows in the last few years that I've watched weekly and that I've obsessively followed spoilers for. I really didn't have much reaction when I heard about the cancellation. I think I already mourned it when JMo left. I planned on watching season 7 at the time but figured it wouldn't be the same. As it turns out, I lost interest in season 7 really quickly--more quickly than I would have expected given that I'd been a OUAT addict since season 3. I actually stopped pretty much cold turkey, tuning in for episode 2 and the episode where Hook got Mother Gothel pregnant. I tried watching more but just couldn't get into it. I've still been checking in on these forums from time to time though, so this is definitely what I'll miss most. I've said it before, but Once will always be the show full of unreached potential for me. I fell in love with two storylines: Hook and Emma's and Rumple and Bae's. Hook and Emma got a lot of great moments, but the writers also missed so many opportunities with them. The chemistry was great and so were their backstories and how they ultimately came together, but it seemed like the writers were scared to go full force with them. We didn't even get a true love's kiss, which is mind boggling to me. Still though, the great moments are enough for me to look back on their story fondly, and maybe even enough for me to remember them as one of my all-time favorite tv couples. I know I'll probably be rewaching the Beanstalk episode, the Neverland episode, the season 3 finale, and the musical for years to come. I remember when I first got invested in Once. It was because of Emma and Hook's chemistry. I remember thinking that there's no way the writers would have their lead character end up with Captain Hook. Not only did Emma and Hook end up together, but we even got a scene of them singing to each other on their wedding day. My second favorite relationship didn't get any payoff. Usually I find familial relationships more compelling than romantic ones. Rumple and Bae were a great example of that. The actor who played Young Bae was fantastic, and I found that Rumple was at his most compelling and even sympathetic in his scenes with Young Bae. I didn't like Neal (and I really wish they hadn't made Bae Henry's father), but I also didn't like how they completely wasted the opportunity for scenes between him and Rumple. Bae was the first casualty of the writers' weaknesses. Despite all of the lost potential, this show will always hold a special place in my heart. It's just a silly show about fairy tales, but it's been a weirdly important part of my life. Like tennisgurl said, Once was there for me through college and starting grad school. It gave me something to look forward to every week. Even in its last couple of disappointing seasons, it still provided much appreciated escapism. It's the end of an era!
  7. I'm satisfied with this episode. I like that they followed through with what they've been setting up all season. Jack's death wasn't a shocking twist--it was basically what a lot of fans had already guessed (particularly based on Randall saying he died when no one was looking). I loved Memphis, but I think this episode was just as heartbreaking, if not more so. In Memphis, William and Randall got to say goodbye, and the viewers got to see William reuniting with his mom. It was still heartbreaking, especially because Randall and William had such a short amount of time together, but at least the death itself was peaceful and done in a manner to provide both the character of Randall and viewers with closure. Tonight's episode felt more real to me. Obviously there were still plenty of dramatic moments, and Jack got to play the hero, but his death didn't have the same closure that William's did. His last words to Rebecca were a joke about her standing in front of the TV. We didn't get to see Jack's last moments like we did with William. None of the family, including Jack, knew it was coming, so there were no goodbyes. This makes sense given everything the show has built up around his death--how much it shocked and traumatized the whole family. It was probably tempting for the writers to throw in more satisfying closure and tearful goodbyes, but it would have been a cop-out. Yes, they still went over the top, and they continued to treat Jack like a saint, but at the same time, it makes perfect sense now why the whole family treats him like a saint. And yes, it was frustrating that he went back in for the video tapes and photos, but I didn't think that was unrealistic. If he saw a clear path out, I can buy him as someone who would think he's invincible. A lot of people wouldn't think to worry about damage from smoke inhalation. It's easy to look back and see what a bad idea it was, but I can see some people thinking it's worth it in the moment. I was surprised the family wasn't more concerned about Kevin. I know Rebecca knew he was staying at Sophie's, but if it were me, there would be this nagging fear that he had ended up coming home. I would have thought there would be more urgency to find him. I really liked Kevin's talks with Jack and Rebecca. I liked social worker Tess too. Part of me wondered if they introduced the future timeline to show Randall's death, since Randall there would be about the same age Jack was when he died. Plus Randall had that line last week about not being able to picture himself growing older than his dad. I really don't think they'll go there, though. I think it's more likely the flash forward was just a one off done to show the positive impact of fostering. I'm glad they finally revealed the mystery of Jack's death, and now I really want to see more of the aftermath in the months and years following. I wonder how much of this we'll get, since Jack is still a main character, so they'll need to continue devoting lots of screen time to flashbacks with him.
  8. Honestly, I haven't followed season 7 news very closely, so if the writers said Whook won't be getting a love interest, that's great news for you. I hope he gets to show more of a fun side some other way, then. I remember liking Hook as a character and enjoying his story even before he got together with Emma, so it would be nice if the writers used Whook as an opportunity to explore some of the non-Emma related things that made Hook a fun and compelling character. As it stands right now (from the limited bits of the season I've seen), there hasn't been much in the way of giving Whook characterization beyond his seach for his daughter. While I loved CS, because of all the obstacles they faced (particularly in the last two seasons), Hook tended to be kind of gloomy and grumpy, and we didn't always get to see his lighter side or his character development beyond his relationship with Emma, IMO.
  9. I wasn't specifically referring to your post, just to general concerns in the fandom about a possible romance between Whook and Rapunzel. My opinion is that, as much as I love CS, it could be fun seeing Whook and Rapunzel together (especially with the Tangled parallels...or rip-offs), and no, I don't believe it would taint CS in the slightest. I see your point regarding Whook's statement that he never found love, and I'm not saying Rapunzel and Whook will definitely end up falling for each other. But I also won't be surprised if they do--it wouldn't be the first time the writers contradicted something said in an earlier episode. It also wouldn't be the first time characters fall in love after one meeting. And like Curio said, it could also just be a case of them making a baby together but not falling in love. It doesn't really matter to me either way. I'm pretty sure there's nothing the reboot can do to get me invested, but it wouldn't hurt to inject a bit of fun and flirtiness from Hook. I didn't realize this would be such a hot button issue but I respect the passion for CS :)
  10. I've barely watched this season. I have all the episodes recorded, and I've skimmed some of them, but this season seems like a bit of a chore to watch, which is sad considering how much I used to obsess over the show. I'm relieved that they gave Emma and Hook their happily ever after, but at the same time, it does make me feel much less invested in Whook's story. I like the idea of him having a daughter, but it isn't enough to hold my interest, considering this is a completely different character than the one I've been watching for six seasons. I almost wonder if it would have been better if they had found a way to separate Captain Swan for the season and then somehow show them being reunited in the finale. I get that this would have been difficult without a guaranteed appearance from Jmo in the finale, but I think they could've found a way around it. I still like the idea of some type of time travel, Fringe type final season where things go wrong in the premiere, and Hook spends the season trying to fix them and ends up going back in time and correcting that moment (so he is reunited with Emma in the finale). Then again, I would've been nervous that the writers would somehow mess it up and leave Captain Swan up in the air, so I think overall I'm good with how they handled it. But I can't stop wondering what casual viewers who missed episode 7×02 and/or the wishverse episode are thinking during Whook scenes. They must be so confused about why he suddenly has a daughter and why there's no mention of Emma. Also, I know there have been a lot of posts here trying to figure out the timeline, but what's the consensus on whether the show will clearly explain it at some point? Is there any hope that the timeline actually makes sense? Or are the writers going to ignore it completely and let it remain a total mess?
  11. I'm a huge Emma/Hook fan and I'm not very invested in Whook (or in this reboot--I've barely watched all season), but I kind of like the idea of Rapunzel and Whook together. It could be fun to see Hook in a different romance, maybe one that's a bit more flirtatious and fun, like the early days of CS. And I don't think it taints CS at all, considering Whook is a completely different character. If a real person can fall in love with different people throughout his/her lifetime, then surely a different version of a person can fall in love with someone else. Even Real Hook loved both Milah and Emma. I also like the idea of Whook having a daughter, and of this being his central, "true love" relationship. It's almost enough to motivate me to catch up on the episodes I've missed. Almost.
  12. I went back and looked at the announcement again and didn't see Moss anywhere. Maybe someone else caught it.
  13. I went back and watched Nicole Kidman's speech and didn't see any cuts to Elizabeth Moss. I also tried googling it, and the only thing that came up was an article in which Moss praises Kidman, calling her lovely and passionate, and talks about how excited she was to meet her on the set of a show they did together. If Moss has a problem with Kidman, I'm having trouble finding evidence. I'm really happy that the Handmaid's Tale was a big winner tonight. For me, it was one of those tv shows where you can't stop watching and then when you reach the end, you can't stop thinking about it. I'm a big fan of This is Us but I don't think it's as high calibre as some of the other nominees. I'm happy Sterling K. Brown won though, and I loved his speech.
  14. I really don't think Emma will be killed off. I could see why fans were starting to get worried during A & E's interviews from earlier in the summer when they were basically telling everyone to appreciate the happy endings and not let them be ruined by whatever happens next, but IMO, the more recent interviews make it pretty clear that Emma is not going to die and that CS will be fine in the end. A & E may be arrogant and they may be terrible interviewees, but I really doubt they would claim that Emma's ending is satisfying if she ends up dead--especially since they're well aware of how upset some fans already are at that prospect. More than that, they wouldn't go as far as saying "CS fans don't need to worry (but they do need to tune in)." I have very little faith in A & E, and I don't expect to find this season remotely satisfying, but I do expect that Emma and Hook will end up together (even if the reunion happens offscreen). I think fans have been so consistently let down by these writers that they sometimes actually start to see them as villains who are out to upset fans. Really, they're just average writers whose little bit of success went to their heads, but in the end they still badly want to appease their rabid fan base and just have no clue how to do that (and that's how we ended up with things like the Swan Queen friendship and the happy ending for Rumple and Belle). I still wonder if they might go with a Fringe type ending. Something terrible happens that results in all the separations (Emma and Hook; Henry and his daughter). We spend the season watching the heroes struggle to set things right. Then characters travel back in time to the moment things went wrong, but this time they go right and everyone carries on with their happy endings. I know JMO isn't coming back for the finale and Adam kind of shot down the idea that she had filmed any scene for the finale, but is it possible she filmed the same scene twice but with slightly different versions (one sad and one happy)? If not, I'm leaning more toward someone else's idea that they flash forward to Emma and Hook's reunion. That makes most sense given A & E's claims that episode 2 is both JMO's curtain call and a satisfying ending to her story.
  15. I just caught up after almost three weeks of being away from this forum and nope, there are still no spoilers to make me remotely interested in the new season. I don't think the writers will kill Emma or give Hook a new love interest (maybe his cursed persona but nothing lasting), but they're really doing a terrible job of allaying fan fears. In fact, it seems like they're going out of their way NOT to allay them, and I think the reason is because they're so in love with their #nospoilers policy that they can't see when it's doing more harm than good. At this point, it just makes them seem even more arrogant--like they're the most brilliant writers ever and their secrets must be protected at all costs. I want to like Adam and Eddy. I really do. But their comments--particularly Eddy's--just make them come across as smug, patronizing men speaking condescendingly to an audience they perceive as nothing more than idiot girls who just want to see Captain Swan kissing scenes. I mean okay, yes , I do want to see Captain Swan kissing scenes...but I would gladly trade those for some quality writing. It's amazing that a poorly written show about fairytales can cause so much frustration and disappointment. It makes me really sad to think that Emma's journey ended the way it did in the season 6 finale (and I doubt the season 7 episode will do anything to improve that ending). There was so much potential, and it is now officially squandered.
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