S04.E22: Cry Havoc

[candall]

I always tuned out the Royals, the Resistance and Adalind's Baby because I came for the mermaid tails and the warthog tusks.  I stand by my system--except tonight I was clueless most of the time.  Sigh.  Shouldn't little Tabitha have twitched her nose and saved her guardian?  She was pretty relaxed about being handed off several times.

 

I thought they were setting up next season with Juliette and Adalind switching sides between good & evil--bad enough--but proceeding with only Sweet Adalind is even worse.  It's like some viewers posted that Nick had better chemistry with his enemy than his sweetheart and the writers accepted the challenge. 

 

Trubel:  solid!!

Edited May 16, 2015 by candall

[Prevailing Wind]

 

the Billy Zane look alike whose name no one can remember

Rispoli.  I know this because of closed captioning.

 

Oh, she's not dead.  No matter how loudly I cheered (and did fist pumps, too,) she's not dead.  No matter how much we hope it's true, you KNOW there's gonna be some changey-redeemy thing when they return in the fall.  Wasn't Zombified Nick dead, too?  Hmmm... They really ought to call this show Lazarus.

[Free]

Rispoli.  I know this because of closed captioning.

 

Oh, she's not dead.  No matter how loudly I cheered (and did fist pumps, too,) she's not dead.  No matter how much we hope it's true, you KNOW there's gonna be some changey-redeemy thing when they return in the fall.  Wasn't Zombified Nick dead, too?  Hmmm... They really ought to call this show Lazarus.

 

Zombified Nick was never dead dead, they were obviously going to save him.  This was supposed to be a major death based on spoilers unless they cop out (which given these writers...).

 

 

And she could be "really" dead but have Adalind have moments where she morphs into Juliette's body if they wanted to keep Bitsie and give new-mom Claire shorter hours. I think fans who think Juliette deserved the death penalty would be okay with that, so long as it was Adalind's mind inside Juliette's body.

 

I wouldn't since this body switching nonsense got us this awful storyline to begin with.

 

 

I thought they showed way too many moments of the old Juliette persona still existing within the new Juliette for them to just end it the way they did and have her simply be dead in the real life sense of the word. But then they've already shown willingness to drop story lines (keys, coins) and retcon characters (IMO--Renard and Adalind), so they could just have her be dead-dead.

 

Supposedly their intent, all we ended up with is Juliette's blank expression cut with flashbacks that may or may not be remorse but it's so poorly written I still can't tell what was supposed to be going on with her, all we have are the writers' intent.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Free

[Jodithgrace]

I guess the King was doomed to die after he built that lame ass block castle.

 

It was nicely convenient that Kenny just happened to fit the prostitute's description of Jack the Ripper. However any competent police work would reveal that Jack had a broad cockney accent, not Ken's posh one. But I guess a British accent is a British accent, huh, Portland police?

 

Ok..if TPTB aren't going to reveal whether or not Juliette's really dead, then i guess she isn't. Sorry everybody.

 

I would have liked to see Nick continue on as a single person, though NOT in a new romance every week scenario. I used to hate what I called "The Bonanza Syndrome." For all of you too young to remember, Bonanza featured four single guys. But every time one of them fell in love, the poor woman was doomed to die or be convicted of murder, or go off on a world tour, never to be seen or heard from again. This was in the days before "arcs" when every show was a stand alone, so no guest stars lasted more than one episode. But they still tend to do that sort of thing with romances on proceedurals. So keep Nick single until a new woman can join the cast..hopefully a wessen. I think we have seen that Nick cannot be with a civilian. 

 

But alas, I think that Juliette will be brought back. 

Edited May 16, 2015 by Jodithgrace

[patchwork]

 

I thought they were setting up next season with Juliette and Adalind switching sides between good & evil--bad enough--but proceeding with only Sweet Adalind is even worse.  It's like some viewers posted that Nick had better chemistry with his enemy than his sweetheart and the writers accepted the challenge. 

 

That's the direction I thought this was going in too and I'm disappointed that we're just getting Nice!All'sForgiven!Adalind and Dead/Re-humaned!Juliette.

 

But worst of all is the random way her death happened, I thought I'd missed a scene explaining how she went from carrying Diana onto the helicopter to back home and apologetic to Nick but apparently not. The writing gets even weirder for the death scene- kill me please! No! Well you had your chance now I'm going to kill you!  

 

I can't be happy she's dead because none of it makes any sense.  

Edited May 16, 2015 by patchwork

[Free]

that's very confusing since the TV Line article has them claiming Juliette is dead dead and that Bitsie is gone.

http://tvline.com/2015/05/15/grimm-juliette-dies-dead-season-5-spoilers/

Unless they're lying or waiting to determine her status in S5 based on fan feedback?

 
Ugh, then I guess I won't be coming back, I'll just stay for spoilers and then find out for myself then.

 

That's the direction I thought this was going in too and I'm disappointed that we're just getting Nice!All'sForgiven!Adalind and Dead/Re-humaned!Juliette.
 
But worst of all is the random way her death happened, I thought I'd missed a scene explaining how she went from carry Diana onto the helicopter to back home and apologetic to Nick but apparently not. The writing gets even weirder for the death scene- kill me please! No! Well you had your chance now I'm going to kill you!  
 
I can't be happy she's dead because none of it makes any sense.

 
It's a testament to how poorly written it all is, we never got any inner struggle for Juliette or even a clear motivation because she was literally all over the place, which is why I didn't want it to continue.  As for them trying to drag this out, then I'm done and I'll pretend this is my ending and ignore the pointless cliffhanger.

Edited May 17, 2015 by stacey
spoiler tag

[chrisvee]

Did I mishear? Didn't the King give orders to 'kill the girl' before they fled the house? What girl?

[ShadowFacts]

 

But worst of all is the random way her death happened, I thought I'd missed a scene explaining how she went from carry Diana onto the helicopter to back home and apologetic to Nick but apparently not. The writing gets even weirder for the death scene- kill me please! No! Well you had your chance now I'm going to kill you!

 

That was clunky how Juliet got from either the helicopter or the out-of-the-jurisdiction rental mansion, to home base.  Also, do we know who the hooded co-pilot was?  Makes me think Kelly is not dead but I do not like the idea of a Kelly lookalike being sacrificed.  That's lame.

 

Does anybody remember the phone conversation that Trubel had with FBI wesen woman?  I can't rewatch it yet, but I think there was a reference to Juliet?

[FormerMod-a1]

When they made it clear that no one held Renard responsible for Jack the Ripper murders because he was possessed, I thought that was a clear indication that they were going to go down that same road with Juliette.  Even though she isn't possessed by a serial killer, or any outside spirit that we know of.  She just get some mystical powers and can make a corpse face at will.

 

Unrelatedly, as I was reflecting on the episode I had the horrible thought that maybe the FBI lady is royalty, too.  Hence her interest in Theresa as a Grimm.  However, that should make her interested in Nick, too, and she didn't seem to be.

[merylinkid]

 

Unrelatedly, as I was reflecting on the episode I had the horrible thought that maybe the FBI lady is royalty, too.  Hence her interest in Theresa as a Grimm.  However, that should make her interested in Nick, too, and she didn't seem to be.

 

Unless she is Queen of the Amazons.   Then Nick would kinda be disqualified from being her Grimm.    After all, why should The Royals only be one family in Europe?

[FormerMod-a1]

I thought there were several royal families.  So I never thought she was related to Renard, nor did I mean to imply that.

[theatremouse]

how in the hell are they going to explain Nick holding his arrowed up/dead wife to any other cops/investigators?   This is getting to be a bit of a stretch.  You can only cover up things for so long. Then to top that off, you've got your dead mother's head in the living room.

 

"I came home and there was all this broken glass and woodwork in my house and my mother's head in a box and my girlfriend was shot with two arrows and then I sobbed and wailed a bunch."

That said, I have no idea why they bothered setting it up to arrest Kenneth through proper channels only to take him out back and stab him in the neck. It made no sense.

 

Well, except for this:  What was Renard doing the very last time we saw him in Season 3?  

 

Bleeding from his mouth.

And he did die? But he had a magical-mommy-undo. Which I'm hoping means, since J has no such magical person who'd want to resurrect her at this point, I hope she's toast.

It's starting to seem like this show doesn't know how to end storylines. They either go on forever or are just dropped entirely with no mention. Both ways are annoying. So it'd be nice if for once that made something happen and it stuck, rather than either being dragged out indefinitely or pretending like it never happened.

This episode felt super clunky to me. Yes, the story...let's say...unfolded. But it didn't really move? If that makes sense. The things that occurred and the dialogue that was spoken felt very much like they were happening because it was written to happen that way, in that order, but not because the story or words actually took it there? It felt very much like "now this is happening and now they're going to this other place, and doing these other things" not because it was organic or earned to do so but because it was written to happen in that order and fit in the time allotted.

Edited May 16, 2015 by theatremouse

[ShadowFacts]

 

I thought there were several royal families.  So I never thought she was related to Renard, nor did I mean to imply that.

 

She's wesen. Are the royals wesen? I thought not, that Renard was an outcast because of his mother. Of course that does not preclude her working for the royals. Or the resistance. It's too murky.

Edited May 16, 2015 by ShadowFacts

[PepperMonkey]

They should have called this episode "Cry Havoc, and Let Slip the Dogs of Cancellation"

 

So, guys, there is NO WAY Juliette is dead. Sadly, even though she has no redemptive characteristics remaining whatsoever, these producers, writers, showrunners or whatever, do not have the stones to kill off the lead actor's RL girlfriend. Which is sad because RL should have nothing at all to do with what happens in the natural progression of a show.

 

I realized last night Grimm has been gradually going down hill since the first - which was a very promising and good - season. I actually liked Juliette, but always thought Nick should have broken up with her for her safety, as Aunt Marie counseled. Then we could have seen her from time to time as she and Nick coudn't manage to stay completely away from each other, but she could have continued being on the periphery where, let's face it, as an "actress", she belongs.

 

I know I'm one of the loneliest of lone wolves on this, but I DESPISE ADALIND. I'm even starting to hate the poor actress who plays her because I DESPISE Adalind so much. I don't think she and Nick have any special kind of chemistry, unlike everyone else here. I don't think she adds anything to the show. I am devastated that they are bringing a Nick and Adalind baby into the show. Usually that doesn't happen until the 6th or 7th season of a show, when all the other cute and precocious kids are no longer cute and they need some uber cuteness. Whatever. This show was never suppsed to be a sit-rom-com. IMHO, Grimmbiest baby = Cousin Oliver.

 

At least that branch of the royals family is finally all gone. Oh, I'm sure there are more royal families in Europe, but I'm pretty sure Alexis will not come back to reprise Viktor. I don't think Sean is the heir apparent, or CreeperKing would have reached out to him before brining in some random cousin from England. If anything, Diana will inherit. I can always hope that she will take Adalind and go back overseas so I don't have to have Adalind and Nick HEA foisted down my gullet.

 

This show could have been so much more. With Monroe, Rosalee, Wu and HANK! as bright spots - heck, even Nick since DG has become a more competent actor. I'm pretty sure season 5 will be their last, which makes me sad, yet strangely relieved at the same time.

Edited May 16, 2015 by PepperMonkey

[Actionmage]

And she could be "really" dead but have Adalind have moments where she morphs into Juliette's body if they wanted to keep Bitsie and give new-mom Claire shorter hours. I think fans who think Juliette deserved the death penalty would be okay with that, so long as it was Adalind's mind inside Juliette's body.

 

No. Just, if Juliette's dead, free Bitsie and I wish her as much success as she can grab. She can still live in the house with David and be friends with the cast and not be on the show. With the writing and direction she's been given, that Bitsie lasted 4 years is amazing.  If she's back, as Juliette, I can't blame anyone for keeping a steady paycheck, but I don't have to see them twist Juliette into OOC shapes. Also, I would hope the writers realize that the body-shifts ended up angering a lot of the fans due to how poorly the swapping ended up "helping" the story. 

I thought there were several royal families.  So I never thought she was related to Renard, nor did I mean to imply that.

 

As the first two seasons, there are 7 royal families. One is Japanese, hence the Asian man Kelly killed to save Nick in the cliffhanger  of S1.  Agent Chavez, AFAIK, is not related to Renard, but she is a Fed ( the last few episodes of S3, IIRC.)  She is a steinadler, like Aunt Marie's ex/fiancé from S1 ( the delicious Titus Welliver.) She has a group that she commands, but I got the impression her group is similar to the Wesen Council--take out or recruit wesen to keep normal safe.

 

Like others have guessed, I am of the thought that Teresa is AWOL (Absent WithOut Leave) and that is why Chavez has such an angry face.  I also agree with those that are thinking that Josh is being leveraged for Teresa's co-operation. 

 

Of course, if Juliette is most sincerely dead, Bud's wife can get angry over being involved in Grimm-tivities and we have an Odd Couple situation for part of the season. Bud lives with Nick, because he is the reason Bud's in trouble with the Mrs. We see Bud tsk-ing over all the wear on the poor house and doing repair work at least once an episode.  Maybe one of Bud's kids is brave enough to want to see Bud with The Grimm, even.

 

eta:

When they made it clear that no one held Renard responsible for Jack the Ripper murders because he was possessed, I thought that was a clear indication that they were going to go down that same road with Juliette.  Even though she isn't possessed by a serial killer, or any outside spirit that we know of.

 

We actually know she was. When Nick de-hexened Adalind, a spirit flew out of her. When Adalind was re-hexened, she had to, essentially, consume a hexenbiest ( ended up being Frau Pech).   When Adalind took the suppression potion, there were two spirit forms that flew out of Adalind, seemed to fight then faded.  When Adalind made her body-morph potion, she had to have some of Juliette's DNA, so the hair she stole ( which Renard saw and questioned her about.) We don't know for sure what Elizabeth did to the potion as no one watched her. There is a chance that she added re-hexened Adalin's DNA, which would have the plus of having a made-hexenbiest's DNA in it. So maybe that is why Juliette ended up so powerful-- it multiplied Adalind's moar power to Juliette's MOAR POWER. Then, if so, the writers have once again written Adalind screwed over by, essentially, her own hand.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2015 by Actionmage

[neuromom]

So, even though I couldn't tell with certainty with Bitsie's acting, I was imagining some sort of schizophrenic thing going on at the end.

First she allows Nick to try to kill her, and even asks him to. And he couldn't bring himself to do it. So, then the Hexen self emerges and goes after Nick. And she doesn't kill him right away, but starts talking about how she must still love him or something. It was as if Juliette WANTED Nick to kill her, and when he failed to do it, she was obligated to kill him.

My feeling was that SOME part of Juliette had a death wish or something. There were brief moments when I thought I could sense a struggle between old Juliette and Hexen Juliette. But, again, it's hard to tell with the acting.

[OtterMommy]

I think he might have halfheartedly tried to at some point?  Maybe?  

 

He did propose in "The Thing with Feathers."  He had planned a huge romantic weekend but, because he's Nick, he had the bad luck of booking a rental house next door to a wife-beating klaustreich whose wife was going to lay a golden egg out of her neck.  To his merit, Nick tried to ignore it but Juliette kept pushing him to do something....so, Nick saved the day and didn't have a chance to propose.  When they got home, he proposed to her in their living room, but she turned him down.

 

Then, he was about to propose to her when Kelly showed up with Adalind.

Rispoli.  I know this because of closed captioning.

 

Oh, she's not dead.  No matter how loudly I cheered (and did fist pumps, too,) she's not dead.  No matter how much we hope it's true, you KNOW there's gonna be some changey-redeemy thing when they return in the fall.  Wasn't Zombified Nick dead, too?  Hmmm... They really ought to call this show Lazarus.

 

And let us not forget Renard....he was shot several times with a semi-automatic.  Juliette was shot 3 times (er, hit with 3 arrows) that didn't look like they went in very far (and remember the Mama Bear in s1e2?  She was IMPALED and lived).  Yes, there was Siegeborst gift in the arrows, but the way Monroe announced that it would kill anyone earlier in the episode I get the feeling that it would kill ALMOST anyone.

 

that's very confusing since the TV Line article has them claiming Juliette is dead dead and that Bitsie is gone.

http://tvline.com/2015/05/15/grimm-juliette-dies-dead-season-5-spoilers/

Unless they're lying or waiting to determine her status in S5 based on fan feedback?

 

Even in that article (the TV Line one), both of them are very cagey and basically saying you can't believe anything from them.  And, honestly, both articles probably came from the same press interview.

Edited May 17, 2015 by stacey
spoiler tag

[RedInk]

I didn't even consider that the wesen FBI Agent could be coming for Trubel until it was mentioned here, because the agent was established as a "good" character. Trubel was acting sketchy during the phone call and when asked about Josh, so I guess there could more to that story. I'll never believe that Juliette's dead, though. I've seen enough bad TV, and I've even seen actors and show runners walk back confirmed deaths. If anything, I agree that the arrow may have been poisoned with something that will reverse the curse.

Oh, one more thing: how can they sub Kenneth for Renard when there is a living eyewitness? I get that she only gave a height/weight/accent description, but did they say she didn't see a face at all? (I'm ignoring the other evidence that would make the switch impossible in the real world.)

Edited May 16, 2015 by RedInk

[Free]

 

This show could have been so much more. With Monroe, Rosalee, Wu and HANK! as bright spots - heck, even Nick since DG has become a more competent actor. I'm pretty sure season 5 will be their last, which makes me sad, yet strangely relieved at the same time.

 

It should end next season, this show should not have more seasons than Angel, especially with the way things have been going.

 

 

So, even though I couldn't tell with certainty with Bitsie's acting, I was imagining some sort of schizophrenic thing going on at the end.

 

Not sure if she was or not, but the writing certainly was.

[Snarkette]

I enjoyed the early parts of S4 but by the finale am no longer sure I'll even bother coming back. Creepy super-powered baby kind of sealed the deal for me, being complicit in the murder of her grandfather, and then joyously smiling with his murderer. In fact, the only part of this ep I really enjoyed other than Killing Juliette (woo!), was Creepy Grandpa admitting he had a thing for corpse-faced hexens.

[Morrigan2575]

And let us not forget Renard....he was shot several times with a semi-automatic. Juliette was shot 3 times (er, hit with 3 arrows) that didn't look like they went in very far (and remember the Mama Bear in s1e2? She was IMPALED and lived).

Renard did die, he flat-lined in the hospital, if Mama Renard hadn't showed up with her magical snake he would be dead-dead.

I don't remember the outcome of the bear, I thought she died.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[iMonrey]

Once Juliette torched the trailer, I kind of figured this is where they were going. It was as though they were deliberately making sure nobody left in the audience didn't hate Juliette. I think they kind of got the message (finally) that Juliette was unpopular with a lot of fans, and they doubled down on making sure everyone would be glad to see her killed off when she helped get Kelly killed. I think she's definitely dead, there's really no redeeming her at this point.

 

Actually I thought they did a pretty good job of cleaning house with this episode. The Royals and their entire entourage offed with one fell swoop. I guess Viktor is still out there somewhere but he could easily have an off-screen death as well. Hopefully now the show will get back to basics and drop all this Royals crap. That's really what needs to happen before the show ends.

 

I vote Wu as MVP for this episode. I was especially impressed with how he handled Kenneth in the warehouse. He proved himself to be quite the bad-ass when he needs to be.

[ShadowFacts]

 

I know I'm one of the loneliest of lone wolves on this, but I DESPISE ADALIND. I'm even starting to hate the poor actress who plays her because I DESPISE Adalind so much. I don't think she and Nick have any special kind of chemistry, unlike everyone else here. I don't think she adds anything to the show. I am devastated that they are bringing a Nick and Adalind baby into the show. Usually that doesn't happen until the 6th or 7th season of a show, when all the other cute and precocious kids are no longer cute and they need some uber cuteness. Whatever. This show was never suppsed to be a sit-rom-com. IMHO, Grimmbiest baby = Cousin Oliver.

 

I'm with you.  Chemistry is subjective and I often don't see it where others do and vice versa, but the Adalind character needed to stay on the periphery.  The cute baby thing always makes me eye-roll, because inevitably once it's born and seen a couple times, off it goes to the nanny or grandma or whomever.  They just shouldn't bother going there, especially on a show like this, it is egregiously out of place.

[Free]

Once Juliette torched the trailer, I kind of figured this is where they were going. It was as though they were deliberately making sure nobody left in the audience didn't hate Juliette. I think they kind of got the message (finally) that Juliette was unpopular with a lot of fans, and they doubled down on making sure everyone would be glad to see her killed off when she helped get Kelly killed. I think she's definitely dead, there's really no redeeming her at this point.

 

Actually I thought they did a pretty good job of cleaning house with this episode. The Royals and their entire entourage offed with one fell swoop. I guess Viktor is still out there somewhere but he could easily have an off-screen death as well. Hopefully now the show will get back to basics and drop all this Royals crap. That's really what needs to happen before the show ends.

 

I vote Wu as MVP for this episode. I was especially impressed with how he handled Kenneth in the warehouse. He proved himself to be quite the bad-ass when he needs to be.

 

That's not really much of an accomplishment as it was already there since the beginning of the series, they just pissed off more people and gave us this poorly witten storyline.

 

Grimm needed a reset if they actually don't cop out for once.

[Chit Chat]

The lady at the end, wasn't she trying to arrest Trubel earlier in the season? Wasn't Meisner killed? I'm so confused

 

Yeah, that's how I felt!  I had to come here because I knew I could count on you guys to fill in the gaps for me!  I remember Chavez, but I can't remember the specifics of her episodes.  My brain hurts!

 

I'm wondering who Meisner was working with that allowed him to fly in and pick up the King & Diana.  I get lost trying to figure out who is good and who is bad on this show!  IMO, Nick shoving that knife into Kenneth's throat was a must see event for me!  I'm usually a little squeamish about knives, but that just felt so right!

[Fable]

Well that was better than I expected (though that isn't saying much).  I almost put off watching because I was really dreading where they were going to go.  I feared they were going to try to redeem Juliette, and I was also afraid Renard was going to be the one to die after being repossessed by the Ripper.  Kenneth, the king and hopefully Juliette being dead I can live with, except I really don't trust the fact that Juliette is, in fact, dead, but the ending was, at least, satisfying. 

 

I'm glad Truble and Meisner are back, but don't know if I'll be watching next season.  I'll start checking out the spoilers when they begin filming for next season before I decide.

[kikaha]

Juliette might be dead, but still come back in flashbacks next season.  I hope it's no more than that.  At the very least, they need to clear up exactly what Juliette did there, as Diane and the king boarded the chopper. 

 

I felt sure the FBI came for Trubel at the end.  They don't know Nick is a Grimm, do they?      

[TV Anonymous]

No. Just, if Juliette's dead, free Bitsie and I wish her as much success as she can grab. She can still live in the house with David and be friends with the cast and not be on the show. With the writing and direction she's been given, that Bitsie lasted 4 years is amazing.  If she's back, as Juliette, I can't blame anyone for keeping a steady paycheck, but I don't have to see them twist Juliette into OOC shapes. Also, I would hope the writers realize that the body-shifts ended up angering a lot of the fans due to how poorly the swapping ended up "helping" the story.

Has that ever happened, though? A real couple playing together in a show only to have one of them killed and the show just be steady as she goes? I am just reminded of Dexter where Jennifer Carpenter was married to Michael C. Hall and therefore she had job security no matter how bad she, her character or the show went.

Edited May 16, 2015 by TV Anonymous

[candall]

I realized last night Grimm has been gradually going down hill since the first - which was a very promising and good - season. I actually liked Juliette, but always thought Nick should have broken up with her for her safety ....

 

I know I'm one of the loneliest of lone wolves on this, but I DESPISE ADALIND. I'm even starting to hate the poor actress who plays her because I DESPISE Adalind so much. I don't think she and Nick have any special kind of chemistry, unlike everyone else here. I don't think she adds anything to the show. I am devastated that they are bringing a Nick and Adalind baby into the show. .... This show was never suppsed to be a sit-rom-com. IMHO, Grimmbiest baby = Cousin Oliver.

 

This show could have been so much more. With Monroe, Rosalee, Wu and HANK! as bright spots ...

Ahoy, matey, I agree with all of this.

 

Juliette was fine as the ineffectual civilian girlfriend.  Nick could have had his star-crossed lover secret AND his woodsy airstream secret.  I think this whole thing started going off the rails when Juliette was suddenly a crack shot, then more and more and more.  Surely something could have been done with an entire population that's half animal and a veterinarian?

 

I'll raise you one on the Adalind loathing, Peppermonkey, because I don't care for the actress either.  I shudder at the co-parenting conflicts ahead.

 

I think Monroe and Rosalie are the most interesting couple on television.  And it's great that Hank and (finally) Wu and now newly minted toughgrrrl Trubel are the rest of the team.  (Bud's fine in small doses, but we don't need the loveable stumblebum driving the clown car every week, do we?)

 

Well, whatever else, the writers get full credit for generating a lot of talk about how things will shake out next season and leaving the door open to any number of possibilities.

 

P.S.  My vote:  dead.

Edited May 16, 2015 by candall

[ottilie]

I think Trubel called the eagle or hawk lady from US intelligence services who she met in the episode before she went to Connecticut. But anyway:

 

"now that they've gotten rid of the Royals"

 

-This is sort of interesting. I always thought of this family as being the fictional remnants of the Hapsburgs of the Austro-Hungarian empire who want to regain what they lost in WW1. Now that the King and Queen and several princes are gone, it actually makes Renard a candidate for becoming power hungry and trying to move up. Wasn't he interested in that back in the first season?

[FormerMod-a1]

When he had the coins, he had dreams of this.

[shapeshifter]

...Now that the King and Queen and several princes are gone, it actually makes Renard a candidate for becoming power hungry and trying to move up. Wasn't he interested in that back in the first season?

When he had the coins, he had dreams of this.

I had forgotten that the deal with the coins was that they turned the person who possessed them into a megalomanic. Maybe they will find them in Juliette's pocket?

[formerlyfreedom]

A reminder that if you want to speculate about Juliette's future (or lack thereof) on the show, it does not belong here. It should either go in The Wishlist or Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion. This includes links to articles about interviews with the producers.

 

Posts with such links and/or discussion of articles are going to be moved/deleted/edited, FYI.

[pookymama]

Oops! Sorry Stacey, deleted comment

Edited May 16, 2015 by pookymama

[kminfinity]

Things I think….

 

In General>

 

Juliet has always been uninteresting.  Then they had the idea to make her a hexenbiest, which could have been interesting, even cool, and they screwed that up.  She better be dead-dead.

 

The Buffy rip-offs are obvious to me, and executed poorly.

 

Too many things don’t make sense, mostly because of poor writing.  If the writers had skill and took care to remember that science fiction and horror and fantasy have internally consistent laws they could really make this show awesome.  There’s a ton of potential in the premise and with the characters.  It may be too late to hope, though.

 

About this episode>

 

Glad Kenneth and The King are dead.  The King especially seemed like a weak, unimposing figure who could never have fathered Sean or Eric or Victor, or even Kenneth. 

 

Glad Bud, and Wu, and Hank, and Monroesalie are all safe.  I don’t mind significant deaths that the Show earns, but in this particular finale any death other than Juliette’s would have been a weak attempt to manufacture justification for a Juliette save.   Which better not happen.

 

Hank had some especially great lines.  Loved his stuff with Renard. 

 

Renard returns and settles in as a police captain and an honrary member of Team Grimm?  Uh..  no?  I am assuming that Renard will somehow need to assume the royal mantle at some point.   To undermine the Royals?  Or because he is corrupted by the power?  I have no idea how the Show will move the Royal Palace permanently to Portland, but that’s what I see happening.  Renard can then become the thing he feared, and the resistance can focus on him as a betrayer of the cause.

 

I am guessing that the FBI lady is connected to Trubel.  Either she knew this was going down and wants to catch Trubel ‘in the act’ of murder and can then leverage it, or else Trubel is an unwilling Resistance/FBI asset?  I dunno.  I hate when my speculation is muddied by the knowledge that bad writing  needs to be a factor.  :P

 

The scene with Juliette and Nick at the end should have been breaking my heart  (

) but nope, not a pang or a tear. 

 

Makes no sense that Diana seems so unaffected by Kelly’s death.  So she must really be alive and there was a plot, and that’s why we never saw her close up.  Except, see third note above.

 

Love Miesner’s return.  He should definitely stay in Portland, become a member of  Team Grimm (they are NOT the Scoobies), marry Adelind, and fall tragically when she becomes evil again. 

 

Meanwhile, Kelly could take baby Grimm away to raise after Nick tearfully admits babies do not belong in Portland.  Diana can stay because super special royal powers will cause her to magically grow up and become a teen in one summer, and become the one girl in all the world, the chosen one. She alone will wield the strength and skill to fight the vampires, demons, and the forces of darkness; to stop the spread of their evil and the swell of their number.  Oh wait….wrong show.

Edited May 16, 2015 by kminfinity

[OtterMommy]

I'm with you.  Chemistry is subjective and I often don't see it where others do and vice versa, but the Adalind character needed to stay on the periphery.  The cute baby thing always makes me eye-roll, because inevitably once it's born and seen a couple times, off it goes to the nanny or grandma or whomever.  They just shouldn't bother going there, especially on a show like this, it is egregiously out of place.

 

I like Adalind as sort of the bumbling, wanna be villain.  I do NOT like her as one of the "good" guys--it just doesn't work after everything she has done.  As for chemistry, I'm with you.  I never felt, in the scenes she had one-on-one with Nick (even when it was actually Juliette) that they had especially remarkable chemistry.  I mean, yeah, CC had more chemistry with DG that BT, but so does every other single person in the cast.  I didn't think she was especially notable in that respect.

 

That being said, I do actually like Clare Coffee has an actress.  In a perfect world, Adalind would go off forever and CC would get herself booked on another show in a bigger role.

Yeah, that's how I felt!  I had to come here because I knew I could count on you guys to fill in the gaps for me!  I remember Chavez, but I can't remember the specifics of her episodes.  My brain hurts!

 

I'm wondering who Meisner was working with that allowed him to fly in and pick up the King & Diana.  I get lost trying to figure out who is good and who is bad on this show!  IMO, Nick shoving that knife into Kenneth's throat was a must see event for me!  I'm usually a little squeamish about knives, but that just felt so right!

 

IIRC correctly, Meisner was in hiding since sending Adalind off with Kelly, but he was always part of the resistance.  I think Viktor said at one point that he assumed Meisner was dead because they couldn't find him.  But, since it was a huge accomplishment when a Royal found the front door, that isn't saying much.

 

Chavez's re-entry, though, was badly mishandled.  First of all, I think many people (definitely my husband and a number of posters here) had no clue of who she was.  Also, her one scene was badly lit and she looked a heck of a lot like Ferris, who is far fresher in the viewers' minds (where is she, by the way?  Is she still out woge-ing in the woods?)  I mean, if they want to bring that rather dull story line back--fine.  But introduce it in a way where the viewers aren't going, "Whaaaa?"

 

I felt sure the FBI came for Trubel at the end.  They don't know Nick is a Grimm, do they?      

 

The last time we saw Chavez, she was under the impression (temporarily correct) that Nick was not a Grimm.  She woged right in front of him and there was no reaction.  Now, we don't know how Trubel has been involved with her and her group, so it could be that Trubel may have told her.  We don't know.  We also don't know what her racket is, if she is a protagonist or antagonist, if she was there for Trubel or Juliette (my money is on Trubel), and all that.  I guess we'll be waiting until October to find out (but won't actually find out until next May).

[Lii]

When Nick was fighting Kenneth in the warehouse it felt like Buffy v. Ubervamp-for-training-purposes from season 7. But then they didn't take advantage of the set creatively at all and it was such a waste of a fight, and it was like heh, because so is this show. When your fanbase is screaming hard for a reset and even when visually it looks like it happens the fans don't believe you because THAT IS HOW LITTLE FAITH THEY HAVE LEFT IN THIS SHOW, THESE WRITERS?

Just go home and give the show to someone who knows how to have a show. Y'all are grounded.

[Free]

When Nick was fighting Kenneth in the warehouse it felt like Buffy v. Ubervamp-for-training-purposes from season 7. But then they didn't take advantage of the set creatively at all and it was such a waste of a fight, and it was like heh, because so is this show. When your fanbase is screaming hard for a reset and even when visually it looks like it happens the fans don't believe you because THAT IS HOW LITTLE FAITH THEY HAVE LEFT IN THIS SHOW, THESE WRITERS?

Just go home and give the show to someone who knows how to have a show. Y'all are grounded.

 

IA, it should've been a lot better, there was potential here for a big showdown, but because the writers never did anything substantial with the Royals, they're just generic, interchangeable baddies getting offed.

[Lii]

Kenneth should have at least been Ubervamp v1 level, versus unzombified Nick. They didn't even take advantage of different height levels working within the set, or utilize any sort of variety of weapons, like the fight choreographers took the day off and left it to some high school kids or something. Hell, why could Nick not be bothered with the head chopping? Does Trubel own the only machete in town?

[Clanstarling]

Has that ever happened, though? A real couple playing together in a show only to have one of them killed and the show just be steady as she goes? I am just reminded of Dexter where Jennifer Carpenter was married to Michael C. Hall and therefore she had job security no matter how bad she, her character or the show went.

They were divorced well before the show ended, and she lasted on the show until the end. So I'm guessing it does happen now and then.  

 

I hope Juliette is most truly and sincerely dead, but given the show's history with killing off characters in the finale and bringing them back, I'm worried that might be a pipe dream.

[possibilities]

This show requires a lot of handwaving, but I didn't have trouble with Juliette showing up back at the house. I figure either she stayed behind after putting the kid on the helo, or Meisner dropped her off (or dumped her off). Then she stole a car from the royal garage or hitched.

 

Likewise, Kenneth having the wrong British accent didn't bother me. Dead people have no accent at all, and they could figure out he was British from his passport, so whatevs. It's much more of a problem that he was arrested and then disappeared and then wound up dead instead of being brought to the station. Also, Wu's cop car has blood in the trunk from when they stowed the severed head.

 

But ever since the rapidly aging spider woman went to jail and no one said anything about her rapid aging, I have accepted that this show didn't want to sweat the details. And that was back in season 1, in an episode I thought was actually pretty great in other ways.

It's disappointing that they're such slobs, but I'll put up with it and keep watching if the show is good in other ways that make up for it. I just wish I still thought that was the case.

[theatremouse]

Likewise, Kenneth having the wrong British accent didn't bother me. Dead people have no accent at all, and they could figure out he was British from his passport, so whatevs.

Plenty of witnesses could attest to his British accentness, presumably including the hotel staff, and luckily, the people attesting to his accent wouldn't be able to compare it to "Jack"'s. However, it looked like when Nick looked up Kenneth in his policey fake database whatever, it listed him as German. Although I suppose that could've just been place of birth rather than residence/where he learned to speak English and with what accent, etc. But it seems like his ID probably would not indicate Kenneth were British.

[Free]

They were divorced well before the show ended, and she lasted on the show until the end. So I'm guessing it does happen now and then.  

 

I hope Juliette is most truly and sincerely dead, but given the show's history with killing off characters in the finale and bringing them back, I'm worried that might be a pipe dream.

 

I know, I don't trust the writers at all.

[Slovenly Muse]

 

Well, if Juliette (and Bitsie) are gone, I think we'll get Adalind and Nick as a couple.  Maybe they'll even refer to her rape-fraud as "the first time we made love."

Awww, don't those two just have the sweetest meet-cute? So romantic.

 

Super glad Trubel is back and will likely be sticking around next season (for at least part of the season if not the whole thing. Arcs are promising!) I'm glad they didn't just forget about her kidnapping by Agent Chavez and are actually intending to follow up on it! (Though I won't be counting my chickens, knowing this show!) Even though it seems like she was brought back for the sole purpose of killing Juliette so that Nick wouldn't have to, I think they've set her up to be put to good use next season. So that's a plus!

 

I didn't have much of an emotional reaction to anything in this ep, probably because the show doesn't really establish the stakes in their battles. Why are the Royals so evil? What's so bad about them winning, and why should we be glad to see them lose? WHY is Diana so special, and what's so bad about her being raised by the Royals? And if it is so bad, then why did Adalind help the Royals to find her? Why should we care about any of this? It was just a mess.

 

Not nearly as bad as the final scene with Nick and Juliette, though. That was so cringeworthy. Once again, they have no commitment on this character. She's evil, but really she regrets what she's done so deeply that she would rather die than have to live with it, but actually, no, she wants to keep doing evil things for no reason. If there was a real sense that she was being influenced by a bloodthirsty force greater than her (which they've suggested but never shown), that could have worked really well. But there's no indication that the real Juliette is fighting to overthrow evil Juliette, or that she's experiencing any real internal struggle about it. And that's not the actress's fault. The show could have easily used some kind of small special effect to cue a transition between good and bad Juliette if it wasn't coming through on acting alone. The writers just chose not to explain it at all. What a pathetic exit for a character that has been around long enough to deserve better. I hope she's really dead, because it would be one less ball for the writers to juggle, which might improve things in general, but I could easily see them bringing her back. If it weren't for Trubel, I would have jumped ship on this show long ago.

[tennisgurl]

Random thought: Theresa excitedly playing with that scary looking spiky bat during the suit up scene in the garage of hilarious.

 

Shot to the heart, and your to blame! Goodbye, Juliette. I`m sure I`ll more to say about you later, but for now, this seems like the right way to go. Even if she didn't know they were going to kill Kelly, betraying her to the Royals was pretty awful. Plus, she didn't think they would kill her? What did she expect to happen? Has she not caught onto the murderous tendencies of these people? Didn't they try to kill Nick more than once? Bullshit. I have been a Juliette apologist for a long time. I even liked her and Nick together. But this season has ruined the character. Until the second she died, I had no idea what her motivation was her plans, or who or what she was angry at or about. She was pissed at Nick and the gang for making her a Hexinbeast, but then when they tried to cure her, she had decided she liked it, and was still mad at them? What? It was like they tried to do a "power corrupts" story, but instead of Dark Phoenix, we got Angry Mean Girl. What a waste of screen time. 

 

At least now that the King is dead (good to see again, Meisner!) and the Perils of Juliette is over, we can get some actually interesting stories going again? 

 

What was the point of the Jack the Ripper stuff? Granted, it was pretty interesting, but was there a real point? 

 

I`m sorry, I`m just not a big Adalind fan. At this point, I don't know why she`s here, unless its to be more of a baby factory. She started all this crap, remember? She also raped Nick, and has been a bad guy for quite some time, right? I almost feel like Juliette was turned evil and killed just so we could have more Adalind, because that's how much the PTB love her. I have learned something this season, not just on this show, but on several: If the writers or show runners start gushing about some random supporting/minor character and how great they are, be afraid. Be very afraid. 

 

All in all, this episode had more good than bad. And considering this season, that's pretty impressive. Theresa really never should have left. I`ll be back next year, but I am REALLY lowering my expectations. 

[Free]

 

Until the second she died, I had no idea what her motivation was her plans, or who or what she was angry at or about. She was pissed at Nick and the gang for making her a Hexinbeast, but then when they tried to cure her, she had decided she liked it, and was still mad at them? What? It was like they tried to do a "power corrupts" story, but instead of Dark Phoenix, we got Angry Mean Girl. What a waste of screen time.

 

Exactly, her motivations were poorly thoguht out/executed, people actually had to keep coming up with theories as to what was going on with her because it never came across in the show itself.

[Bruinsfan]

I think Kenny's death scene was 100% about Nick wanting to kill him with his own hands, and his friends deciding giving him that closure was more important than justice or finding someone to pin the Ripper murders on. Though I just do not get how Kenny was so certain he was going to walk out of there alive. You've just murdered the mother of someone who's sent the bodies of enough failed assassins back to your family to get a bulk postal rate, you've gloated about it and pushed him to the point that he's willing to abandon his principles and commit murder, he's superhumanly strong and fast and you're not, he's armed and you're not, and his police friends who are now willing accomplices to an execution are waiting outside ready to gun your ass down in the extremely unlikely event that you walk out of that warehouse in one piece. There's overconfident and then there's so stupid it's a wonder you can remember to breathe.

 

I'm skeptical that Theresa would ever give up any info about Nick under duress. He's the guy who showed her she wasn't insane, opened up his home to her, educated her about their heritage, believed in her as his replacement, and generally has just been the awesome big brother she never had. The fact that she was willing to put down Juliette—whose evil side she'd never previously experienced firsthand—on his behalf without hesitation tells me her loyalty is pretty much unshakeable.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Bruinsfan

[Ananayel]

 

. However, it looked like when Nick looked up Kenneth in his policey fake database whatever, it listed him as German. Although I suppose that could've just been place of birth rather than residence/where he learned to speak English and with what accent, etc. But it seems like his ID probably would not indicate Kenneth were British.

I don't remember if his ID had a country on it, but the family name listed was Bowes-Lyon, which is the surname of the family of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother. The British royal family is heavy on the German ancestry, so they seem to be playing on the interconnectedness of European royalty.

[johntfs]

I think Juliette is for real dead because of speculation that Bitsie's tired of the show and wants to make movies.  Which sucks, because I liked the character and the actress and yeah, I'm sad she's dead.  What worse is this mess seems to be setting up Nick and Adalind as a couple.  Oh well, if rape is inevitable, I guess we'll have to lie back and "enjoy" it.

[Shadda2]

I really enjoyed this final.  It had humor, which was hard to come by considering the circumstances, it had action and it had angst.  And, it ended with Juliette dead.  That was all I really wanted....Note to my grown son, if a woman you are in love with sets me up to be gruesomely murdered and you are unable to kill her with your bare hands I will come back to haunt you, and haunt you, and haunt you.  You will never know another days peace.  Consider yourself forewarned.

 

I'm not sure I understand all of the questioning about Juliette not being on the helicopter.  She took Diana to the copter and didn't get on it.  It's really pretty simple.  She apparently needed her moment of closure with Nick.

 

Love Bud, will always love Bud.  Toothbrushes are very important.

Love Meisner, will always love Meisner.  I clapped when I saw him.  I was so worried it was Juliette, that would have ticked me off.

Love Truble, and always have, even from the beginning.

Love Rosalee, enough said

Love Monroe, also enough said

Love Hank, will always love Hank.  He does bring the funny.  Great reactions all the way around.

Love Wu, it's hard not to.

 

They killed off the characters that I was enjoying hating.  Kenneth, loved seeing you die.  King Perv, loved seeing you die.

 

 As for the rest of the characters, including our hero, yes I do love them.  They are making our Grimm a little grayer, and I like that.  He has lost a lot of his naiveté and that is good.  I was so glad he got to be a Grimm in this episode, because that has fallen by the wayside all to often lately.  We haven't seen much of our powerful Grimm this season.  I liked the fight with Kenneth, not the best choreography in the world, but it got the job done.  I want him powerful, not invincible and I got that last night.

 

Renard, didn't have too much to do but did it effectively.  He is our real gray character.  He is the one who started all of this and has never really uttered even one word of regret.  It would be great if next season we do see the darker side, real darker side, not Jack the Ripper dark side, come out to play.

 

It appears that Adalind is becoming a more polarizing character these days.  As I read all of the posts here, the majority of them were very negative regarding that character.  I adore Adalind and am unapologetic about it.  She was helpful, very helpful, last night, but I do not believe she is coming all the way over to the light side.  I love her interactions with the Grimm Gang and would love to see more of that next season.  I do not like shows that only have one female protagonist and Rosalee needs other strong females along side her.  So far Adalind hasn't been a strong female, I want her to become one.  

 

I'm looking forward to next season and I have my fingers in my ears and am lalalaing as hard as I can to any and all that try to say Juliette isn't dead.