S04.E21: Headache

[Actionmage]

As well, why is it bad should Juliette be redeemed while on the other hand Adalind has been redeemed, relapsed and redeemed again and it will be just fine? Remember, all of this happen because of Adalind.

 

I'm not sold on the idea that Adalind is redeemed. She's helping Nick & Co. to cover her own ass. We really don't know what's up with Juliette's future just yet. I think a redemption arc would be asking too much of the audience though.

[TobinAlbers]

The thing is this episode went a ways to show an actually possessed person, Renard, who was scared out of his mind and fighting it with Juliette who has accepted her dark 'possession' and reveled in it but is also having pangs of conscience that show she is remembering the good times so her 'corruption' isn't complete. Which as someone else pointed out makes it worse since a part of her knows she messed up.

The other thing is while Sean was possessed he killed several women including Henrietta. He now has that on his conscience, plus how are they gonna cover all that up as far as the open murder cases go?

It keeps getting said that Adalind started this when she was only set on Nick by Sean. Adalind didnt target Nick on her own, Sean pointed her in his direction at his behest in order to rattle him for his own agenda. She was Sean's hench woman and went off book when it became personal with Nick taking away her Hexenbiest powers. I'm not saying she hasn't reaped what she sowed, but Sean bears a lot of responsibility for starting this whole ball rolling by having Adalind insert herself in Nick's life - and he's never really has apologized for all the crap he indirectly caused them. Sean and Nick basically became allies because of writing hand waving/glossing over/ignoring. Sean gets a pass because of he became an ally only by necessity (and because of his abs and chest), not by earned trust, while Adalind gets all the blame.

It's sad that Diana lost her mom. I'm also a little sad for Adalind as her reunion with Diana may not go as she hopes since her daughter doesn't seem to remember her at all. Interesting that Juliette gets Adalind's kid as leverage but I doubt Sean will hold back on getting his daughter back. A Sean and Juliette Biest fight would be cool!

I gotta wonder why Kelly would bring Diana with her. If Nick was in trouble the last place Diana should be is in the thick of danger. Also she has to believe that anything and everything could be a trap so why risk it. Really wish Kelly had stowed Diana with Josh and Trubel (I fanwank she made it a point to check out the Grimm her son mentored).

Hanging Trubel back and kicking ass really does make me want a spinoff with her and Josh.

Not gonna lie, ignore their history and Nick and Adalind talking shop was cute. And Giuntoli brought it in his reaction in finding Kelly's head. You can really believe that something snapped in Nick in that moment.

[TV Anonymous]

Juliette is a hexenbiest for five cosmic seconds and she goes off and kills Nick's MOTHER. 

 

Except that Juliette does not kill Kelly.

[Dobian]

Trubel coming back and with that spectacular entrance is a great thing

 

I wasn't too excited about the Jack the Ripper storyline.  It really veered away from what Grimm is about and into the realm of the purely supernatural.  What makes Grimm great is that it shows this whole other hidden - but in its own way, natural - world.  But the Jack the Ripper thing is all about evil spirits and possession and just felt out of place for me here.

 

And Juliette has to die.  There is no other acceptable conclusion to that arc.  Sorry, but she burned down Nick's trailer and got his mom's head chopped off.  She has to go.  The writers better not screw this up with some smaltzy redemption trope.  She gets the death penalty.

[TiffanyNichelle]

This is such bullshit. Juliette definitely has to die now.

[Dobian]

Except that Juliette does not kill Kelly.

 

Well she sort of did.  She deliberately led her into a trap so her accomplices could kill her.  Same thing.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Dobian

[Blue Plastic]

Furious that Kelly has been murdered but really enjoyed seeing Nick's reaction/David Giuntoli's acting.  That's probably the most dramatic emoting he's gotten to do on the show and IMO he did quite well with it.  When they showed "Kelly's head" I just tried to distract myself by imagining how they made it and how much of their budget they spent on it!

 

I was ridiculously glad to see Trubel again.  So glad to see her, in fact, that I've reduced myself to calling her Trubel instead of Theresa.  I can't believe how much I love a character that had so much potential to be a Cousin Oliver.

 

I always hated this character, and she is absolutely irredeemable.  After the Grimmibago.  And definitely after setting up NIck's mom.  She is the worst. 

I don't know if I want to watch the entire episode.  I can't believe that a fictional character is making my blood boil.

Each betrayal has gotten progressively worse.  Even just after burning the trailer I didn't see how Nick could ever take her back, but now that she's threatened his friends' lives and lured his mother to her death, I really don't see any redemption for her unless it's sacrificing herself.  If the writers try to spin some cockamamie "Hexenbiest = insanity = innocence" with maybe some amnesia thrown in for good measure, which means Nick should take her back, I don't know if I can continue watching.  I just can't buy Nick and Juliette as a romantic couple ever again.  How could Nick look her in the face and remember the role she played in his mother's death and then want to kiss her?  Just no.

 

In my opinion the flickers of conscience they showed tonight only makes what she did worse. She had several chances tonight to call it off, and the director took pains to show us that she was in her right mind during those times, reminiscing about Nick, remembering happy moments in that house. The devil wasn't driving her, and it wasn't done in a cold rage. She flashed back to meeting Nick's mother, and then calmly picked up the phone and invited Kelly in to her death. And there were 2-3 moments like that when she had time to think it over, remember who she used to be and how much she loved these people, and in the end it didn't matter.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  It made it worse.  To me she looked remorseful but went ahead with it anyway, listening to Kelly's death throes and walking down the stairs very slowly to make sure she wouldn't get there in time to actually witness the murder.  Then she has the audacity to pick Diana up as if she is some kind of sweet, caring person.  What a load of horse manure.

 

What I want to know is why didn't super special purple eyed baby Diana do anything to protect Kelly?  I guess she's kind of like Henrietta - awesome until the script calls for her not to be.  This makes me worry about Trubel, who so far has been pretty consistently awesome.  I don't want to see her reduced to stupidity or unable to do what she should or would normally be able to do because the script is stupidly written.

 

Thank goodness Ripper!Renard seems to be resolved.  But what about the fact that the public will never get an answer as to who the murderer was?  And Renard's fingerprints and DNA would be on the bodies and at the murder scenes.  When Trubel came to the door, I thought it was someone coming to arrest Renard.

[Free]

Well she sort of did.  She deliberately led her into a trap so her accomplices could kill her.  Same thing.

 

Exactly, she was responsible for selling everyone out to the Royals, giving them all the details, putting them all in danger because of it.  Then she took the kid while she was beheaded off screen screaming.

[alias1]

Am I the only one who thinks that Kelly isn't dead, and maybe the girl they have isn't even Diana? 

[Free]

 

Bitsie may not be the greatest actress but they completely assassinated the character. There is no outcome here that will satisfy me other than her character's death.  Also how stupid are they to write out Mary Elizabeth and Garcelle Beauvais for cheap, five second payoffs? Think of the stories you just threw out the window when you got rid of these two women who are actually fine, proven, battle hardened actresses!

 

That and losing the trailer full of Grimm mythology all for the sake of this Juliette plot makes it even worse no matter how it ends up.

[LittleIggy]

I want to see to see Juliette and Kenny blood eagled.

[neuromom]

Thank God we have our badass Trubel back. And I second the motion that Diana gets to Europe and singlehandedly destroys the royal familiy.

Juliette did so much unredeemable stuff this episode that I lost count.

Thankfully the Scooby gang is pretty much done with the bitch.

She needs to die. Horrifically. Painfully. ASAP

[HunterHunted]

Except that Juliette does not kill Kelly

Except conspiracy. Juliette conspired to kill Kelly. Actually Juliette was complicit in an epic ton of murders. She blithely let the royals and the verrat murder her neighbors and it's not like any of them were involved in her current predicament. I'm glad she's so cool with having her elderly neighbors' throats ripped out. I don't love that she set up Kelly. I can almost hand wave it away as reasonably related to grim Grimm business, but her neighbors? That's the kind of stuff that makes her unredeemable.

[TwistedandBored]

Juliette was super cold in this episode. I for sure thought she was going to change her mind after all of those flashbacks. I guess this time I was wrong. Not only did she not ignore those flashbacks, she bangs a guy on hers and Nick's bed, helps kill the neighborhood, and then takes part in the murder of Nick's mom! Damn! I really hope they don't go the redemption route. If they want to keep her in the show. Let her remain in the show as the main foe of Team Grimm. The amount of drama from that alone would be great to watch. I mean she accomplish in just few episodes what took this royal idiots a very long time to accomplish. 

 

I actually see a lot of people saying Adalind is getting a redemption storyline. As someone who has been a fan of hers for a very long time. I will believed it when I see it. I just see Adalind as someone who is alining herself with some people who can help her at the moment. I don't want her as this weak hexenbiest. I want her to have her edge still. Never knowing what she is up to. 

 

 

David G. in that final moment of the show was great to watch. He brought his A game for that scene. 

[90PercentGravity]

Truble is a great character and the actress who plays her is awesome. I really hope she's not just back for a couple of episodes and then disappears again.

 

So did the demon just disappear into the ether, or is it going to jump into someone else's body?

 

I'm thinking the producers think that viewers don't like Juliette because she's with Nick. Like it is some petty jealousy thing. So they concocted this stupid storyline to keep her around while also splitting her from Nick. Perhaps thinking viewers would warm up to her as a villain. The problem is, they got it totally wrong and are just making things worse. Sadly, I don't think she's going anywhere.

[threebluestars]

The only way to salvage this show is to kill Juliette. It would be poetic after Aunt Marie's warnings to Nick. And he has to do it ... it would be the only way I'd be able to handle continuing to watch.

[icewolf]

Juliette is dead to me now.

Juliette is responsible for Kelly's murder after supplying the Royals with so much information. She had every chance to stop it, but she didn't. Witness her slowly walking down the stairs, she doesn't even have the courage to watch the Royals kill Kelly. What a coward. Also the dead neighbors are completely on her.

Damn, sad to see Mama Grimm get murdered like that. Kelly will be missed even though she didn't appear that much. I did appreciate the callback to the head in the box scene from season one, when Nick did that with the two reapers that went after him.

Nice to see Trubel back. It has been 13 episodes without her, but she killed that Royal goon like she never left.

The whole Jack Ripper plot felt too easily resolved, but whatever. I'm glad that is over with. I wasn't sure how much longer I could handle that accent.

[Humbugged]

Thank God we have our badass Trubel back. And I second the motion that Diana gets to Europe and singlehandedly destroys the royal familiy.

Juliette did so much unredeemable stuff this episode that I lost count.

Thankfully the Scooby gang is pretty much done with the bitch.

She needs to die. Horrifically. Painfully. ASAP

Way to make an entrance as usual .And calmly booting the head to the side was just so IJDGAF

 

Is it a coincidence that she is now dressed like Kelly .The new Woman In Black ?

 

Juliette must die

[possibilities]

I won't say who is or isn't more unredeemable, but I think the only reason Adalind didn't actually kill anyone is that she was out-smarted or over-powered by Nick and Co. She tried very hard to kill Aunt Marie, and her plan was to kill Hank in season 1. She only failed because she was thwarted, not because she didn't try.

 

It never occurred to me that the girl wasn't Diana-- that's a diabolical twist!

 

Come to think of it, Adalind did kill Frau Pech, didn't she? She stole her heart to get her hexenbiest powers back. If I'm recalling correctly, it was especially brutal because Frau Pech had helped her and up til then was on her side.

Edited May 9, 2015 by possibilities

[shapeshifter]

Am I the only one who thinks that Kelly isn't dead, and maybe the girl they have isn't even Diana?

Oh, SierraMist, dear, I'm afraid you are swimming upstream in the river named denial.

And I second the motion that Diana gets to Europe and singlehandedly destroys the royal family...

Sounds good to me. Maybe a nice, bloodless vortex to another dimension (because she's a little girl).

I'm now thinking they may have been setting up Juliette's redemption to be that she sacrifices herself to save Diana. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you think about Diana being the spawn of Juliette's nemesis, Adalind. But the way Juliette was bonding with Diana in this episode, plus her flashbacks to happier times with Nick, plus her looks of regret, all seem to be pointing to the outcome of Juliette taking a metaphorical bullet for the Star Child. Tune in next week, Grimmsters...

[Free]

 

I'm thinking the producers think that viewers don't like Juliette because she's with Nick. Like it is some petty jealousy thing. So they concocted this stupid storyline to keep her around while also splitting her from Nick. Perhaps thinking viewers would warm up to her as a villain. The problem is, they got it totally wrong and are just making things worse. Sadly, I don't think she's going anywhere.

 

 

I hope not as it's already hard to watch her, she's become more and more insufferable and I've seen fans of her turning on her characters these last few episodes.

[FiveByFive]

Except that Juliette does not kill Kelly.

Semantics.

 

That doesn't change a thing.

 

Juliette sent an e-mail to Nick's mother claiming that need needed her with the intent to summon her.

She allowed them to murder several people around her former home and did not care.

She also did nothing to stop or warn Kelly that she was walking to her death when it's been made clear she has power in spades and possibly could have stopped them.

She also allowed them to leave Nick's mother's head in a box in their living room. 

 

Kelly would be alive if not for the actions that Juliette took. If you think the characters will see it differently, great but I doubt it.

 

I won't say who is or isn't more unredeemable, but I think the only reason Adalind didn't actually kill anyone is that she was out-smarted or over-powered by Nick and Co. She tried very hard to kill Aunt Marie, and her plan was to kill Hank in season 1. She only failed because she was thwarted, not because she didn't try.

 

True, it's kind of a little different -- this is all eons ago when she was working for Renard who they are all clearly friends with now. 

 

Sean Renard sent Adalind to kill Marie.

Sean Renard sent Adalind to seduce Hank.  The order wasn't to kill him but to make him love her and then obsessed with her. Sean wanted the key and she raised the stakes by putting him into a coma with the thread he'd die if she didn't wake him up. I don't think she or Sean thought for a second that they wouldn't get it but oops she got depowered and Sean kicked her to the curve. 

 

That doesn't excuse the Marie thing but yeah she was going to die anyway.

 

Adalind seems to like to cause "trouble" but not go in for the kill. Plus if any of the stuff above had of went the way Sean wanted it to, Nick would have have had her or Sean's head. What I mean is, when left to her own devices that's not necessarily her first instinct and those failures are the reason why she is alive now. 

 

Come to think of it, Adalind did kill Frau Pech, didn't she? She stole her heart to get her hexenbiest powers back. If I'm recalling correctly, it was especially brutal because Frau Pech had helped her and up til then was on her side.

Stefania killed Frau Pech while she was in Adalind's form after Frau Pech drugged Adalind but Stefania knew it wasn't her ... there was a lot of double crossing, manipulating etc. going on there so I see that as more of an "no honor among thieves" thing.

Edited May 9, 2015 by FiveByFive

[ottilie]

I wish they'd use the opportunity of Juliette being new to being a hexe, and new to the royal family, to actually explain what the royal family is and what they want.

    I personally think her acting is fine - there are people who normally are like that and it works for me.  The Juliette character is supposed to be a 'straight' person... and they are convenient for helping explain what's going on - you'd think she'd ask Kenneth some background information about what they are doing. They act like she has a lot of knowledge about royals.

Edited May 9, 2015 by ottilie

[OtterMommy]

Ugh....this show....

 

The whole Juliette/Kelly thing...Here's a question.  Was anyone the least bit surprised about how that turned out?  Didn't think so.  I'm guessing it played out exactly the way most (if not all) of us thought it would.  

 

The Jack the Ripper/Renard story line just made me frustrated. You know, at its bones, it was actually a really good story and Roiz could have really shown his chops in it (although what we did see from him was quite good, but the writers just mucked the whole thing up.  And the resolution of it all was just so anti-climactic.  Sigh....

 

And one scene with Adalind and I'm upset about her--not with her, because I blame the writers, but about her.  Here was a hexenbiest who really couldn't do anything--everyone else had to tell her what spells to use and when.  Heck, what we think was a Kehrseite (Viktor) had to tell her how to de-Grimm Nick.  Really, NOTHING she ever did turned out.  And now she's a freakin' genius?  Henrietta--who was supposed to be the end-all be-all of hexenbiests was flummoxed (however briefly....ha!) by Renard's issues but Adalind is like, "Oh yeah...I know what that is, what caused it, and how to fix it.  Now, let me go back to sleep."

 

I'm going to say something I never thought I'd say....I miss stupid, evil Adalind.

[tennisgurl]

Have not watched the episode yet, but sadly I am weak and looked here to see what happened this week, and...wow. Juliette, I defended you for years. I appreciated you, rooted for you, and I hoped and prayed for you to find a goof story line. But now? 

 

She gots to get gone. 

[OtterMommy]

•• Glad Renard's ok. But I'm sad we probably won't be seeing him ripping open his shirt anymore.

 

 

At this point, there are very few things I am confident about with this show. However, the fact that we'll see Renard's chest blaze of glory again is one of them.

...that we know of.  I wouldn't put past these bozos to spring a surprise relative on him.

 

Don't count out Trubel.  DG has said he hopes the characters are related.

[OtterMommy]

The other thing is while Sean was possessed he killed several women including Henrietta. He now has that on his conscience, plus how are they gonna cover all that up as far as the open murder cases go?

 

 

Holy hell...where do have the murder cases on this show go?  Nick comes home and finds a man who was being held for murder and had just broken out of jail dead on his living room floor and he...hides the body.  What happened to the case of those guys who died of acid burns from the frog girl?  

 

I'm sure Wu will think of something clever and believable to write in the crime report.  heh....

[OtterMommy]

 

I cannot believe they handled the Renard arc correctly.

 

1. they didn't drag it out

2. they didn't forget about it two episodes later

3. They finished the arc and provided an explanation.

 

 

I have to disagree with you on this one.  How long has Renard been bleeding?  8 episodes, 10 episodes?  And they did forget about it and come back to it a couple of times.  Yes, they finished the arc and provided an explanation, but I really felt the way they did both those things left a lot to be desired.

[scrambled eggs]

Fully on board the kill Juliette train. If she's alive at the end of next week's episode, I may reconsider watching next season. 

 

The only question is, who would make the most satisfying killer? I'm leaning toward Monroe going full Blutbad on her. 

[OtterMommy]

Fully on board the kill Juliette train. If she's alive at the end of next week's episode, I may reconsider watching next season. 

 

The only question is, who would make the most satisfying killer? I'm leaning toward Monroe going full Blutbad on her. 

 

Too bad they "cured" Renard in this week's episode....

[PepperMonkey]

All right, all right, all right... I watched this for the first time in a few weeks because of the comments here.

 

Juliette may not have killed Kelly with her own hands, but she lured her there, lured her to the house, stood upstairs and gloated - or was she just constipated? - while they were obviously killing her long time boyfriend's mom. So, accessory before, during and after the fact. Also, she tried to get Nick to kill Monroe and even if she wasn't going to actually let it happen, when she messed with Monroe and Rosalee, that was the end of her for me. I'm quite sure they'll redeem her, but next season will likely be the last for sure if everyone who's threatening not to watch follows through.

 

Also, re: Adalind not ever killing anyone... it's only because she's the worst hexenbiest in the history of hexenbiests. She TRIED to kill Nick's Aunt Marie right in front of him at the hospital. Yeah, yeah, I know, it's because Renard told her to, but that doesn't matter much in a court of law. I know everyone here really likes Adalind, and honestly, I have no problem with the actress herself, but I really hate Adalind AND Juliette and would live happily ever after if the show would kill them off and Trubel and Josh would come back to Portland to join the Grimmy gang.

Edited May 9, 2015 by PepperMonkey

[thuganomics85]

 

The only question is, who would make the most satisfying killer? I'm leaning toward Monroe going full Blutbad on her.

Part of me wants a unexpected death, that Juliette would find embarrassing.  Like Wu.  Not because he is bad or anything, but Juliette would no doubt find that humiliating.  Oh, I know!  Bud!  I would pay money to see Juliette's face, if freaking Bud brought her down.

 

I'd vote either Monroe or Rosalee though.  Again, even if I was to excuse her involvement in the Kelly stuff (which I won't, because she had to know what the Royals were planning), she fully attended to kill him.  Or, to be exact, make Nick do it.  I just can't see that being merely a Hexenbiest temper thing: she went out of her way to try and do that to someone who has been good to her.  So, yeah, to hell with her.

 

All that said, I'm already preparing myself that they going to excuse it all way.  She's just going through a rough patch!

[Dobian]

The thing that bothers me about Nick's mom is that she was a total badass, and she gets killed and beheaded unceremoniously offscreen.  You didn't even get to see her put up a brave fight.  It was kind of an insult to the character.  I guess they didn't have Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio under contract to return in the role and just used a double for when she got out of the car with the kid (and her image for the head).  I knew something was up when we never got a good look at her going into the house, it was all a far away shot.

[Actionmage]

Renard's mom, Elizabeth, showed up in  4X01 and tonight was 4X 21, so 21 episodes not counting 3X 22, where he just got shot.

 

Juliet goes into her coma in 1X22. The coma goes from2X1 thru 2X 2, but Juliette's amnesia goes from 2X2 thru 2X20. So 21 episodes.

[johntfs]

I would like to make a dissenting voice. With all the bad things that Juliette does, what does Nick - the Grimm - do to mitigate it? Since the beginning he shows nothing but disgust to Juliette condition, a condition that happened because of him. Then he keeps on telling Juliette that he, they will find a way to "cure". Never has he - the one with knowledge in the Wesen world - tried to sit down with her, to discuss their options, to discuss what she wants to do or to be.

 

So yeah, not that I say that what Juliette does is good or right nor that it was okay for Nick to have her mother killed in such a horrible way, but he kind of has it coming...

 

On a different note, how is the timeline in Grimm universe compared to real life? We saw Kelly took Diana as an infant just over a year ago and know she walks and talks already?

 

The thing for me is that this whole Juliette is evil storyline seems like it could've been avoided by A) Henrietta giving both Nick and Juliette a full understanding of what to expect in terms of her powers and their effect on her emotional stability and B) having them see a decent, clued-in couples' counselor.

 

Diana's a magic baby.  Be grateful she hasn't already turned into a hot magical teenager.

[Commando Cody]

I am so seriously pissed off right now.

 

 Did the writers think it was cute to call this episode "Headache" ?  I think they're all stoned.  Are we allowed to use expletives in these forums?  Because I have many that really want to come out right now.  

 

I'm not sure I even want to watch the season finale.  Whether I do or not, I am done with this show.  

 

When Juliette was walking down the hallway, I was hoping Theresa would walk up behind her and cut her freaking head off.  And when I say "freaking" I do not mean "freaking".   The writers were seriously trying to give her a freaking conscience this week.  No.  She needs to die.  There is no coming back from this.  

[Syme]

I'm not sold on the idea that Adalind is redeemed. 

 

Hard to say. For an attorney, she is really short on clue...

 

Trubel coming back and with that spectacular entrance is a great thing

 

.What makes Grimm great is that it shows this whole other hidden - but in its own way, natural - world.  But the Jack the Ripper thing is all about evil spirits and possession and just felt out of place for me here.

 

And Juliette has to die.  There is no other acceptable conclusion to that arc. 

 

1. Hell Yes.... She is here to kick ass and chew bubblegum and she's all out of bubblegum.
2. Agreed. Leave RedJack to Bones & Spock.
3. Yep...off with HER head.

 

 

Holy hell...where do have the murder cases on this show go? 

 

Bud's cousin has a side job......

[jhlipton]

What I want to know is why didn't super special purple eyed baby Diana do anything to protect Kelly?  I

 

This makes me worry about Trubel, who so far has been pretty consistently awesome.

 

Yep, the baby had super posers until she needed them.

 

I thought Trubel was caught up in the idiot plot  -- Gee, there's HundJaegers at Nick's house, I don't see any neighbors.. eh, whatevs, time to mosey along."  

Ugh....this show....

 

The whole Juliette/Kelly thing...Here's a question.  Was anyone the least bit surprised about how that turned out?  Didn't think so.  I'm guessing it played out exactly the way most (if not all) of us thought it would.

It played out the way I figured it would, along with Bitsie's "acting". What I was hoping was that the Kelly we had met know an obvious trap when she saw one -- right from Julliette's dumb email, and had picked up Trubel to ambush the ambushers. After Henrietta's death, though, I knew that wasn't going to happen.

I'm out. I'll tape next week, but unless it sounds super awesome, I'm done. And I won't be back next year no matter how this is resolved.

[GaT]

Wow, I was not expecting that. When they showed "Kelly" going into the house, I wondered why they were showing it that way & why we never got to actually see Kelly. I even thought it might be Trubel dressed up to fool them, but that didn't make any sense so then I decided that maybe Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio wasn't available for that scene so they used a stand in. I did not expect her to be killed. 

 

I'm glad they cured Sean, (if they really did), but what was the point of his entire plotline?

 

I also think that Juliette is not redeemable at this point. She set up the people across the street to be killed, she set up Kelly to be killed, and does she have any idea what they want Diana for? They've never told us why the baby is so important, is she just going to hand her over to the royals?

 

Glad to see Truble back.

[placate]

I'm just kinda pissed off at this show for a few reasons:

-Nick's mom had powerful coins that could be used to charm the hell out of everyone since the first season that she didn't drop into some random volcano for a few seasons despite knowingly being capable of possessing the user, these coins were held by Hitler and gave him like +100 charisma.

-She was still killed by royals.

-Who, according to the wiki are people who were involved with all the crusades despite 1 house being Japanese.

-Kicked Renard's ass while being just humans, when he is half-zauberbeist.

-No explanations for what Royals really are, who the houses are being in the 4th season and not giving them a decent back story.  Oh there's vetter and lautner but what about all those other Royal houses?

-Jack the Ripper takes Wu on a ride along to watch him kill prostitutes.

-Wesen prostitutes.

 

That's enough.  This show is officially on hate-watch status.

[xman4802]

Like many people, I have been unsatisfied with the direction that this show has taken.  I think there were a lot of ways to deal with Juliette being a hexenbeiste beyond making her so completely evil and irredeemable.  Like many others, I see no way they can go with this other than to kill her or have her become a permanent villain in the show.  

 

I am also saddened by Kelly's demise.  Not sure why all the bad-ass women characters who are interesting have to die (except Trubel, for now).  I also for a minute do not think that Kelly would have arrived with Diana in tow, and I have a hard time thinking she would have walked into that kind of trap.  We are supposed to believe that a woman smart enough to fake her own death would allow herself to be set up like that? Not buying it for a minute.  

 

Nice to see Trubel back though.  Wondering if she and Nick are related.  I remember DG giving an interview before this season and stating that he, MEM, and JT were all of Italian descent so there could be some possibility that the writers might use that somehow to suggest that Trubel was related to Nick.  

 

I can't see any way that the writers (who haven't been particular fresh or original for much of this season) write themselves out of this hole that they have put themselves in.  The show has become unlikeable to its core fanbase and the most satisfying redemption would be for Juliette to be killed but I fear the writers don't have the guts to do so and I like many others have a hard time believing that if BT and DG are actually dating (and this isn't just a Hollywood "for show" romance) that the writers would actually kill the leads girlfriend.  If they do so, I'll give them a lot of credit for that.  

[BkWurm1]

Like many others, I see no way they can go with this other than to kill her or have her become a permanent villain in the show.

 

She could be alive at the end of the season but then I would not expect her to be a regular next season.   She's burned her bridges in town.  There is no redemption arc for her.  Two options are left.  She acts on a fluttering of conscious and sacrifices herself to save ...honestly I have a hard time believing she would save anyone.  MAYBE the child but nobody is trying to kill the child.  The other option is for her to leave with the Royals and be brought back during sweeps week so that she can have a few final battles with the team and THEN either be taken down or have a tiny redemptive moment before she dies.   

 

The problem with her being a regular bad guy is that she can't do anything.   She's too far over the line to ever convince them she's reformed so she can't be used to infiltrate the group  She's handed over all her intel already. I suppose they could create some new storyline that keeps her completely separate like they did last year with Adeline but in the end when she finally has her confrontation with the gang - which is the only reason they'd keep her around - she's going to lose so that means die evil, die as a last second sacrificial death, or get cured and then take her second chance at life AWAY from everyone.  That's the best she can hope for. 

 

She's done as girlfriend or friend or anything to do with any of the heroes of the show.  There's no coming back for her.

 

The Captain and Adeline have done terrible things but they did them while not supposedly in love with Nick and BFF's with the rest.  That is what makes Juliette impossible to redeem.  Adeline has a shot at redemption because when she was full on evil, she wasn't ever honestly friendly with the gang.  It's as simple as that.  She had her reasons for targeting them and being angry but her attacks were never an ultimate betrayal because there was no love lost.  The betrayal from a loved one is what makes Juliette a lost cause.  

 

Either she's dead at the end of this season or she's removed from the regular cast and dies later.  Either way she's done. 

 

In a lot of ways what they've done to the character is inexcusable.  It's illogical and unsupported by her characterization and the characterization of hexenbeists and when this storyline stated I never expected them to go where we are now and honestly, it feels like they are writing her off the show.  If they just wanted to shake up the character they would have given her powers and left it at having a tough transition but ultimately more useful for investigations.   There was actually a point this season where I thought, oh good, now she won't get damseled any more but this isn't a shake up to the character,

this is an exit strategy.  

 

 

I am so seriously pissed off right now.

 

 Did the writers think it was cute to call this episode "Headache" ?  I think they're all stoned.  Are we allowed to use expletives in these forums?  Because I have many that really want to come out right now.  

 

It's all about context. You probably want to avoid aiming expletives at people but as a very colorful adjective...well let me quote David T Cole when asked about what is acceptable language:  (asked in the questions forum).

The usual stuff, no hate speech, no homophobic speech, no misogyny, nothing super gross and graphic, etc.

--What about the common four-letter words (you know the ones I mean) that were not considered any of the above, but were not prohibited, either? [snip] In other words, what would be considered "adult language" or language that would be inappropriate to use around children.

Got it. Then my answer fucking stands.

 

[Blue Plastic]

In a lot of ways what they've done to the character is inexcusable.  It's illogical and unsupported by her characterization and the characterization of hexenbeists and when this storyline stated I never expected them to go where we are now and honestly, it feels like they are writing her off the show.  If they just wanted to shake up the character they would have given her powers and left it at having a tough transition but ultimately more useful for investigations.   There was actually a point this season where I thought, oh good, now she won't get damseled any more but this isn't a shake up to the character,

this is an exit strategy. 

I could have written this myself.  I keep trying to figure out if BT wants off the show and they're trying to keep her departure under wraps so it'll be a surprise to the viewers...or what.  Because this just doesn't make sense.  I never in a million years expected a Juliette-turns-evil story when she started turning into a Hexenbiest.  I figured it would cause relationship drama, Nick and Juliette would fight, argue, break up for a while, and ultimately Juliette would have to decide to stay super-powered but desiccated or go back to her saucepan-swinging, gun-toting human existence.  But the writers just took her way off the road and seem determined to drive her off the side of a cliff.  I don't get it.  Speaking as someone who never even liked Juliette all that much, I still don't see anything in her past characterization that points to her ending up like this.  Couldn't she just break up with Nick and avoid him and his friends if she hates him that much?

 

She even commented derisively that Nick had taken down all the pictures with her in them.  Well, WTF does she expect?  She has made it crystal clear that she hates his guts, yet he's supposed to sit around the house and gaze lovingly at her picture?

[MDKNIGHT]

If the writers try to spin some cockamamie "Hexenbiest = insanity = innocence" with maybe some amnesia thrown in for good measure, which means Nick should take her back, I don't know if I can continue watching.  I just can't buy Nick and Juliette as a romantic couple ever again.  How could Nick look her in the face and remember the role she played in his mother's death and then want to kiss her?  Just no.

 

Playing Devil's advocate: Yet a HUGE part of fandom were totally about Spuffy (Spike and Buffy) and of course Buffy/Angel when both Angel and Spike had done HORRENDOUS things including murdering a parent, murdering slayers, and let's not forget Jenny Calendar.  But everybody got along with them.  I particularly hated that Spike was popular while he was chipped and still WANTED to murder people, he just couldn't do it because of the pain.  He even told a story to Dawn about hunting down and killing a child while babysitting her.  I wonder what makes the difference.  Personally I'm with the crowd that sees Julliette as too far gone but I'm consistant as I don't think it was reasonable for the Scubies to have accepted Spike.  I think it is much more realistic for these characters to not be able to forgive Juliette. But I do wonder if gender bias plays a part in how people react. I think redemption via death may be in the cards although I never forgave Darth Vader for killing children so it won't really work for me either way.

[shapeshifter]

...I'm glad they cured Sean, (if they really did), but what was the point of his entire plotline?...

Aww, that's sweet. Viewers still think this show has character development and meaning.

It has actors with compelling screen presence.

It has retcons that pass for character development.

And it always has at least one good comedic moment.

But that's pretty much it.

IMO.

Edited May 9, 2015 by shapeshifter

[Prevailing Wind]

 

Either she's dead at the end of this season or she's removed from the regular cast and dies later.  Either way she's done.

In the normal world of storytelling, this would be true.  But we're talking about the writers of Grimm.

 

Where are the coins?

[FormerMod-a1]

I'm just kinda pissed off at this show for a few reasons:

-Nick's mom had powerful coins that could be used to charm the hell out of everyone since the first season that she didn't drop into some random volcano for a few seasons despite knowingly being capable of possessing the user, these coins were held by Hitler and gave him like +100 charisma.

 

I thought the coins made you power hungry, but I don't remember anything about charming and charismatic.

[Free]

All right, all right, all right... I watched this for the first time in a few weeks because of the comments here.

 

Juliette may not have killed Kelly with her own hands, but she lured her there, lured her to the house, stood upstairs and gloated - or was she just constipated? - while they were obviously killing her long time boyfriend's mom. So, accessory before, during and after the fact. Also, she tried to get Nick to kill Monroe and even if she wasn't going to actually let it happen, when she messed with Monroe and Rosalee, that was the end of her for me. I'm quite sure they'll redeem her, but next season will likely be the last for sure if everyone who's threatening not to watch follows through.

 

Also, re: Adalind not ever killing anyone... it's only because she's the worst hexenbiest in the history of hexenbiests. She TRIED to kill Nick's Aunt Marie right in front of him at the hospital. Yeah, yeah, I know, it's because Renard told her to, but that doesn't matter much in a court of law. I know everyone here really likes Adalind, and honestly, I have no problem with the actress herself, but I really hate Adalind AND Juliette and would live happily ever after if the show would kill them off and Trubel and Josh would come back to Portland to join the Grimmy gang.

 

Ratings wise, this show is already struggling so I wouldn't be surprised if they did since I'm already almost there depending on the finale and what they're trying to do.

[ShadowFacts]

Did anybody else think of Walter White when Wu was kicking and yelling in the squad car?  Nah, it's just my obsession with an actual well-written show.  Speaking of writing, why would possessed-Renard bother taking Wu along? 

 

But the worst of the bad writing is as others have mentioned -- Kelly would never have fallen into that trap and bring Diana right into it.  Not a chance.  She may not have anyone she can trust enough to leave Diana with, so she would be absolutely sure it was safe to bring the baby with her to the house.  And that pretty much would be never in a million years.

[ShannaB]

 

Omg...someone needs to airdrop some god damn contraceptives over this town....

 

The actress playing Adalind is pregnant in RL so maybe the writers decided to just go with another pregnancy rather doing 'hiding the bump' in scenes like they did when Bree Turner was pregnant.   If Juliette survives (ugh) and ends up pregnant then I will literally hit my head against the wall.