S10.E17: Nesting and Room Re-Do

[Marigold]

I think Michelle is detached. No argument.

But don't forget that those intense religions all teach that bizarre "always smile, everything is God's Will, be happy".  She has been taught to repress her real emotions for so long, she feels literally nothing except the joy of the Lord. 

 

Remember when they could not find Jubiliee's heart beat?  Michelle said the Bible verse "the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, Blessed be the name of the Lord" I'm a religious person myself but I personally thinking crying would've been a normal reaction. 

[Micks Picks]

OK MEchelle is detached, that's established.  Probably on meds.  And her TH probably was not until days later.

 

That said, I don't get panicked about things.  I don't ever freak out.  I never cry.  Not even for the loss of those I love the most.  Not even if they were part of my soul.  That doesn't mean I don't feel the loss.  

 

I actually think I remain detached because of anger I can't express.  And that anger is expressing itself a little in different ways.  I know under deep, long lasting, unrelenting trial, one afternoon, for the first and only time in my life, I let out with a primal scream that must have lasted 5 minutes.  I needed to do it.   MEchelle can't do anything because it's all god's will blah blah.  No matter how horrific the circumstances, all they do is bible quote.  I read some of Jill Rodriques's father's letter about his reaction to his daughter's, Jill's sister, broken neck.  She is paralyzed of course.  Bible quote after bible quote.  God is good, He did it so we could learn from it or some such nonsense.  I don't think Mechelle for many reasons can do anything else.  I wouldn't put the blame on her like it was intentional.  Now watch, she'll do something next week that will have me saying the opposite!

[msblossom]

Yes! I saw that barely suppressed smile too. It was NOT how a normal mother would have reacted to such a terrifying event. More like a high school girl who just scored some really good gossip and can't wait to share it with the other kids -- knowing that doing so will focus all the attention on HER.

Thank you, I thought I saw it. I saw Jana smiling a bit as she described the events of Josie's seizure too, but I don't attribute the same hollow detached affect to Jana bc obviously we all saw how terrified Jana was as she tried to keep Josie alive before the paramedics arrived. In Jana's case I believe she's shy and not all that comfortable in front of the camera.

I really wish someone had had the courage to demand that TLC stop filming! And beyond that, at the very least JB should have absolutely forbid them from exploiting Josie's seizure. Nothing is sacred or private for this overexposed family and it's completely reprehensible to sacrifice your 5 year old daughter to the Roman style arena of "entertainment". Sick bastard.

Edited April 30, 2015 by msblossom

[SoSueMe]

I'm relatively new to Duggar world but I've picked up comments that Michelle can't pick up her kids due to a bad back. Is that correct? Because didn't Josie come barreling out and jump up on her when they returned from their "appointment" ? She was lifting Josie okay then.

[truthtalk2014]

I'm relatively new to Duggar world but I've picked up comments that Michelle can't pick up her kids due to a bad back. Is that correct? Because didn't Josie come barreling out and jump up on her when they returned from their "appointment" ? She was lifting Josie okay then.

It is so obvious that she has selective back pain.  She is capable of holding 5 year old Josie, 4 year old Josie, 3 year old Josie- and so on- but to hell with poor Jordyn, Jennifer and the rest of the gang.

 

Does anyone remember seeing MEchelle holding little Jordyn after Josie was born?  I feel so sorry for that child and only have memories of her toddling through that big house at just over a year old.  If I know one thing about her- she will be a survivor. 

Edited May 1, 2015 by truthtalk2014

[NikSac]

I'm relatively new to Duggar world but I've picked up comments that Michelle can't pick up her kids due to a bad back. Is that correct? Because didn't Josie come barreling out and jump up on her when they returned from their "appointment" ? She was lifting Josie okay then.

 

She has a <cough> "missing muscle" in her back. Allegedly. But as truthtalk2014 said, it seems to depend on the activity, and/or which child wants to be held.

[JenCarroll]

 

Remember when they could not find Jubiliee's heart beat?  Michelle said the Bible verse "the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, Blessed be the name of the Lord" I'm a religious person myself but I personally thinking crying would've been a normal reaction.

When she does things like that, it's like she's making a big production of displaying her piety and submission to the lord's will, but it's all off-key. Like she's playing out a dramatic scene someone wrote, only really badly.

[dillpickles]

This isn't about the seizure, but as i watched the episode, Ben and Jessa where talking about the weather. Jessa liked it warm blah blah, and then, Ben said something so funny. He said, "sometimes in the summer time it gets hot, and ya gotta put it down to... 68" and wiggled his eyebrows.

Now, this was hilarious because in my dirty mind he was making a 69 joke.

[Fuzzysox]

Wow the bokld epis that I missed when we didn't have cable in the kitchen........thank goodness they left the frumpy clothes behind (everyone except MeChelle and Jill)

[Potato511]

 I am going to guess that she lifted Josie up to prevent her  from banging her head around on that tile floor. 

She may have HAD the seizure up there (they are always climbing up there), and Jana was following the protocol to not move the person having a seizure. 

[Spencer Hastings]

Yeah, I can't fault Jana for anything not related to her first responder training. There's a reason doctors aren't allowed to operate on or treat family members. We can go back and forth about how she did or didn't follow protocol but if any of us had our children in the same situation, I don't know that we would do anything differently.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Spencer Hastings

[Sew Sumi]

She may have HAD the seizure up there (they are always climbing up there), and Jana was following the protocol to not move the person having a seizure. 

I believe James said he saw her seizing in the living room. It sounds like she was moved before the cameras arrived. 

[Potato511]

I believe James said he saw her seizing in the living room. It sounds like she was moved before the cameras arrived. 

it was a thought... anyway, they have an open plan, so he *could have been in the living room and seen her up on the counter having the seizure. does anyone have Jana's exact words about it from the show? Not that we could take that for "truth", necessarily, but, yeah...

[Sew Sumi]

It was weird that they didn't let James have a TH segment, but instead let JACKSON tell the story. WTF??? 

 

I do believe the little kids; they have no reason to lie. However, I don't trust much of anything that comes out of any married person on this show. They're all earning a check, and their lies have proven to turn a sweet profit. 

Edited May 1, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[SomePity1066]

It was weird that they didn't let James have a TH segment, but instead let JACKSON tell the story. WTF???

 

 

Sew Sumi - I think there is, unfortunately, a proven marketability, ratings-grabbing tactic in having young, cute, precocious children regale us with a story, however harrowing, rather than an adult. JB and Michelle proved this with their keeping-it-sweet, downplayed explanation. Michelle especially did the typical Duggar "Everything is fine, awesome, etc..." thing with what I like to call her Manson Lamps - those buggy, glazed-over, insistent eyes almost make you want to believe that Josie is, in fact, just fine and dandy.

 

Glitch, please...

[GEML]

The thing is, I don't think Jana should be left with Josie if she's going to panic like that. Nor do I think that any parent of an epileptic child has to put the rest of their lives on hold because their child might have a seizure once every few months, as it seems this is Josie's pattern. The situation as it is now is unfair to everyone. What would be best is to hire someone to care for Josie who has some training and is a little more removed personally from the situation. This allows JB and Michelle to continue their careers, Josie to develop and grow as normally as possible, and Jana to be relieved of a responsibility she clearly doesn't want (and doesn't need.)

[3girlsforus]

The thing is, I don't think Jana should be left with Josie if she's going to panic like that. Nor do I think that any parent of an epileptic child has to put the rest of their lives on hold because their child might have a seizure once every few months, as it seems this is Josie's pattern. The situation as it is now is unfair to everyone. What would be best is to hire someone to care for Josie who has some training and is a little more removed personally from the situation. This allows JB and Michelle to continue their careers, Josie to develop and grow as normally as possible, and Jana to be relieved of a responsibility she clearly doesn't want (and doesn't need.)

 

This would be best but it is never going to happen because the situation as it is now has no affect on JB and Michele. The person most significantly affected is Jana so they have no motivation to help. After all if they were interested in helping relieve Jana from some of her responsibility or emotional burden we would have seen signs of them doing that already. However, if there ever comes a day when the kids are gone and Josie still needs extra care that can only be given by JB and Michele, I guarantee they will hire someone to do it. 

[Sunnybobs]

Somebody else must care for Josie when Jana is visiting Josh and Anna or at Journey to the Heart or taking care of the house etc.(sadly they were the only Jana activities I could think of!) While Josie's part of her buddy team she can't care for her all the time.

[GEML]

I don't think they care about relieving Jana, but if does become apparent that Josie is epileptic and needs more consistent care (and a seizure that long is a real concern, febrile or not) I hope they will address the situation from that point.

But I don't think any parent's life should stop simply because something MIGHT happen. Including Jana's! ;)

Edited May 1, 2015 by GEML

[trimthatfat]

Maybe James did not give his version of events because he didn't want to talk about it? It is very traumatic to watch someone have a medical emergency and he might have been emotional about what he witnessed. I don't think it should be read into beyond that.

[ShaNaeNae]

* I have to admit that I was a bit overcome with intense loathing for Michelle during the scene with Josie's seizure.  I didn't think it would upset me that much.  Mothers can't be expected to shadow their children 24/7, but this is a "mother" who is known for passing her babies off like hand-me-downs to her older children the moment they're able to barely sit up by themselves.  Jana deserves a goddamn award for the crap she's had to deal with single-handedly in that family.  If it looked like she cried like she was Josie's mother during the seizure, it's because SHE IS.  I hate Michelle.  When she used the word "glitch" to describe Josie's seizures, I nearly spilled my coffee down the front of my shirt.  I can't say much more here right now without cursing A LOT more.

 

Me too! I mean it's not like I liked her, but I was literally muttering the words "HATE" during that scene.  Seeing Jana broke my heart. She's all those lost girls have and the guilt she had when Josie was seizing. I couldn't believe they were showing it. It felt invasive and yet another ratings bonanza for Boob and Mechelle. I thought of how she and the Boob were in Honduras or Costa Rica or whatever when the girls had to call 9-1-1 and rush Josie to the hospital as a baby. Then, a rerun was on this morning and it was back when Michelle was attached at the hip to Josie and only held her and stayed with her 24/7. She was standing in the living room and Jordan ran up to her (she was holding Josie) and asked for a snack. The bitch says in her baby voice, "go tell Jana...say 'Jana...can you get me a snack?'" I wanted to belt her. Michelle, you have left Jordan as an orphan practically. You CAN hold a baby and get your other child that needs you a snack too. And if you need Jana's help, ask her-to her-not through Jordan in a baby voice- to get Jordan a snack.

 

Regarding flights, I used to be a flight attendant for United out of O'Hare and flights into the smaller regional airports were always oversold. There's usually not as many flights going into a city like Fayetteville as there would be to places like NYC and L.A. I hate to defend Boob and Michelle but they may have legitimately not been able to get a plane til the following day.

 

Oh hey, fellow United family. Actually my mom, stepdad and Grandma have all retired from United, I flew on their passes most of my life until I was in travel myself (not United). But we let my cousin borrow the passes when another cousin of ours got married (she lives in Berryville, outside of Eureka Springs) and the flights were slim just getting her into Fayetteville.

[phoenix62]

See, I thought there were 2 crews, one was in another location outside? In any event, when Josie became critically ill, all bets are off, the cameras should have been shut off, they should have helped poor Jana, and called 911....just my opinion.

If they filmed it, when they went through the footage, the producers should left it all on the cutting room floor. If they felt it was something that should be discussed, fine, discuss it after the fact. It could be a teachable moment about how to handle an emergency....but you don't have to sacrifice your minor child's privacy in the process.

As an afterthought...I really believe Michelle checked out some time ago. I actually feel rather bad for her. Just think....she married when she was just a teen (17, right?) and was fed the bunch of BS that is the Gothard cult....she didn't stand a chance. Her family was in another state and out of the picture.

I feel that way about so many of the parents on other TLC shows. And then it bothers me when the children are slammed for being brats. I don't know, but if my parents had pimped out my childhood on television, I'd be screwed up, too.

Haven't seen this discussed.

Who called the film crew??? Jim Bob said they were out filming the other kids? To me it sounded like they were off the property and not home. Who calls a film crew? I understand that they are close to the film crew but there were other adults there to assist. Jim Bob implied that they were so close so they just swung over to help the kiddies out. Jana and Grandma were there...plus EMS arrrived. The boom guy doesn't know anything about seizures.

I guess they called the film crew to actually film the seizure?

That's sick.

See, I thought there were 2 crews, one was in another location outside? In any event, when Josie became critically ill, all bets are off, the cameras should have been shut off, they should have helped poor Jana, and called 911....just my opinion.

If they filmed it, when they went through the footage, the producers should left it all on the cutting room floor. If they felt it was something that should be discussed, fine, discuss it after the fact. It could be a teachable moment about how to handle an emergency....but you don't have to sacrifice your minor child's privacy in the process.

As an afterthought...I really believe Michelle checked out some time ago. I actually feel rather bad for her. Just think....she married when she was just a teen (17, right?) and was fed the bunch of BS that is the Gothard cult....she didn't stand a chance. Her family was in another state and out of the picture.

I don't see the kids as bratty, not even remotely. I think they are rather sweet kids...it's not the younger ones' fault that they are left to be raised in front of the cameras...and by their older sisters. I think these poor kids are doing pretty damn well considering what they have to deal with.

Edited May 1, 2015 by phoenix62

[graefin]

She was standing in the living room and Jordan ran up to her (she was holding Josie) and asked for a snack. The bitch says in her baby voice, "go tell Jana...say 'Jana...can you get me a snack?'" I wanted to belt her. Michelle, you have left Jordan as an orphan practically. You CAN hold a baby and get your other child that needs you a snack too. And if you need Jana's help, ask her-to her-not through Jordan in a baby voice- to get Jordan a snack.

She's "working herself out of a job" by "training" the little kids to go directly to their "buddies" for help.

[truthtalk2014]

Me too! I mean it's not like I liked her, but I was literally muttering the words "HATE" during that scene.  Seeing Jana broke my heart. She's all those lost girls have and the guilt she had when Josie was seizing. I couldn't believe they were showing it. It felt invasive and yet another ratings bonanza for Boob and Mechelle. I thought of how she and the Boob were in Honduras or Costa Rica or whatever when the girls had to call 9-1-1 and rush Josie to the hospital as a baby. Then, a rerun was on this morning and it was back when Michelle was attached at the hip to Josie and only held her and stayed with her 24/7. She was standing in the living room and Jordan ran up to her (she was holding Josie) and asked for a snack. The bitch says in her baby voice, "go tell Jana...say 'Jana...can you get me a snack?'" I wanted to belt her. Michelle, you have left Jordan as an orphan practically. You CAN hold a baby and get your other child that needs you a snack too. And if you need Jana's help, ask her-to her-not through Jordan in a baby voice- to get Jordan a snack.

 

 

I do not remember this episode exactly, but it does not surprise me.  I will say that it pisses me off to the worst degree.  Maybe she should have put Josie in the sling and help care for her other babies.  

 

The disdain I feel for MEchelle grows daily.  I really used to not like her, but now it's more.  She really is not a nice person.  She is not a mother in any sense of the word. 

Maybe James did not give his version of events because he didn't want to talk about it? It is very traumatic to watch someone have a medical emergency and he might have been emotional about what he witnessed. I don't think it should be read into beyond that.

Maybe James did the TH's and it was too bad for TLC to put on air.  He is a talker and there is no telling what he might have said.  EDIT- EDIT- EDIT- oh well, let's delete this scene. 

[BitterApple]

I don't know any mother who can't hold a baby and do a million other tasks. Michelle making Jordyn go to Jana was just pure laziness.

[Wellfleet]

I do not remember this episode exactly, but it does not surprise me.  I will say that it pisses me off to the worst degree.  Maybe she should have put Josie in the sling and help care for her other babies.  

 

The disdain I feel for MEchelle grows daily.  I really used to not like her, but now it's more.  She really is not a nice person.  She is not a mother in any sense of the word. 

Maybe James did the TH's and it was too bad for TLC to put on air.  He is a talker and there is no telling what he might have said.  EDIT- EDIT- EDIT- oh well, let's delete this scene. 

 

Fully agree. I think James is one of the more thoughtful and articulate kids, in his own quiet, rather dry way. He's made me smile, even laugh, more than once for sure. If he was filmed for a TH, he probably provided far too much detailed information - or at least info that Boob did not want broadcast. And so James is relegated to the cutting room floor this time...

[Almost 3000]

See, I thought there were 2 crews, one was in another location outside? In any event, when Josie became critically ill, all bets are off, the cameras should have been shut off, they should have helped poor Jana, and called 911....just my opinion.

If they filmed it, when they went through the footage, the producers should left it all on the cutting room floor. If they felt it was something that should be discussed, fine, discuss it after the fact. It could be a teachable moment about how to handle an emergency....but you don't have to sacrifice your minor child's privacy in the process.

As an afterthought...I really believe Michelle checked out some time ago. I actually feel rather bad for her. Just think....she married when she was just a teen (17, right?) and was fed the bunch of BS that is the Gothard cult....she didn't stand a chance. Her family was in another state and out of the picture.

I don't see the kids as bratty, not even remotely. I think they are rather sweet kids...it's not the younger ones' fault that they are left to be raised in front of the cameras...and by their older sisters. I think these poor kids are doing pretty damn well considering what they have to deal with.

I'm answering the question about the crew being around when Josie had her seizure. I just watched an episode in which Michelle talks about using one of their buildings that's set-up for the family's interviews (talking heads) and that she liked it because she just had to walk close by to do it. So I'd bet that's what the crew was doing on the property with some of the other kids and why they were so close.

[RazzleberryPie]

Somebody else must care for Josie when Jana is visiting Josh and Anna or at Journey to the Heart or taking care of the house etc.(sadly they were the only Jana activities I could think of!) While Josie's part of her buddy team she can't care for her all the time.

Grandma, Jessa, Jinger, and maybe even Jill? plus who knows how many adult brothers were there, too. A lot gets dumped on Jana, but there are other adults there, too.

 

I don't think they care about relieving Jana, but if does become apparent that Josie is epileptic and needs more consistent care (and a seizure that long is a real concern, febrile or not) I hope they will address the situation from that point.

But I don't think any parent's life should stop simply because something MIGHT happen. Including Jana's! ;)

They don't care about anything but themselves.

 

Fully agree. I think James is one of the more thoughtful and articulate kids, in his own quiet, rather dry way. He's made me smile, even laugh, more than once for sure. If he was filmed for a TH, he probably provided far too much detailed information - or at least info that Boob did not want broadcast. And so James is relegated to the cutting room floor this time...

This is what I think, too. He would be far more likely to give to much information and actually answer direct questions, instead of a dramatic, revised retelling that made no sense in the end.

[phoenix62]

I'm answering the question about the crew being around when Josie had her seizure. I just watched an episode in which Michelle talks about using one of their buildings that's set-up for the family's interviews (talking heads) and that she liked it because she just had to walk close by to do it. So I'd bet that's what the crew was doing on the property with some of the other kids and why they were so close.

Oh, I see. Ok. That would make more sense....but I still think it's just so terrible to film that at all....

[Chalby]

-- we'll pray -- Jana -- go ahead and make the medical decisions and freak out in the hospital by yourself or with your other sisters; it's not like you guys could possibly need emotional or parental support right now . . . .

Jana... run, run, run far away. Go to school and try to reclaim your lost childhood.

[Chalby]

Ok, as a nurse I have to add, Jana mildly annoyed me. I hope this really was the first bad seizure, so she really didn't know what to do. 

I thought they said that this was the first time a seizure lasted (over 15 minutes). The ambulance attendant was concerned with Josie's physical outcome having everything seized up for for so long. Jana was beside herself because it was not Josie's typical petite mal - I think she was just following the 911 instructions when Josie was on counter. I doubt she would move her from floor without asking.

[cmr2014]

I fault JB and J'chelle 100% on this. I am no expert, and I don't mean to make light of Josie's seizure, but if she has regular seizures then the family ought to be aware of that and prepared for that. Every one of those kids should be trained at an age appropriate level about what to do in case Josie has a seizure (or any other emergency for that matter). There is no reason not to have a short list of dos and don'ts taped to the refrigerator. 

 

I don't think that JB and J'chelle should have to put their lives on hold because their daughter occasionally has seizures, but they certainly should have been better prepared. They have simply checked-out on their kids and see no reason to worry since the J'slaves are there and can take care of everything. I don't know if it's because they're lazy, or stupid, or because they believe that they are anointed by God, and nothing bad could ever happen to them, but they are simply awful parents.

Edited May 2, 2015 by cmr2014

[runnerduck]

I feel so bad for Jana during this. Yes she has training but it is so completely different with family. My husband is a paramedic and was a little rattled when our dog ripped open his paw, and when my brother busted open his chin.

I read some comments about Jana not truly wanting to be a Doula but last night there was a rerun of 16 kids and moving? I think that's what it was called. But even back then she said she wanted to be a midwife. I guess it's possible she was brainwashed back then but I tend to think they were able to at least consider their own career paths in those days.

[SoSueMe]

I fault JB and J'chelle 100% on this. I am no expert, and I don't mean to make light of Josie's seizure, but if she has regular seizures then the family ought to be aware of that and prepared for that. Every one of those kids should be trained at an age appropriate level about what to do in case Josie has a seizure (or any other emergency for that matter). There is no reason not to have a short list of dos and don'ts taped to the refrigerator. 

 

I don't think that JB and J'chelle should have to put their lives on hold because their daughter occasionally has seizures, but they certainly should have been better prepared. They have simply checked-out on their kids and see no reason to worry since the J'slaves are there and can take care of everything. I don't know if it's because they're lazy, or stupid, or because they believe that they are anointed by God, and nothing bad could ever happen to them, but they are simply awful parents.

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought that I've read on one of the threads that they keep something else on the fridge.

 

Michelle's calendar with her fertility cycles

[BitterApple]

There really wasn't much more Jana could have done besides dial 911 and follow their instructions. At best she has haphazard first responder training, not a medical degree. She was probably freaking out because the seizure lasted fifteen minutes, the paramedics were slow to arrive and all the other adults were standing around doing jack shit to help her.

[JennyMominFL]

I thought they said that this was the first time a seizure lasted (over 15 minutes). The ambulance attendant was concerned with Josie's physical outcome having everything seized up for for so long. Jana was beside herself because it was not Josie's typical petite mal - I think she was just following the 911 instructions when Josie was on counter. I doubt she would move her from floor without asking.

I don't think she's had petite mal seizures.. Just shorter Tonic- Clonic seizures

Edited May 2, 2015 by JennyMominFL

[Sew Sumi]

Maybe James did the TH's and it was too bad for TLC to put on air.  He is a talker and there is no telling what he might have said.  EDIT- EDIT- EDIT- oh well, let's delete this scene. 

I can totally see this happening. James was probably TOO honest, and it didn't fit the "nothing to see here" plot they're trying to shove down our throats. 

[cmr2014]

 

I read some comments about Jana not truly wanting to be a Doula but last night there was a rerun of 16 kids and moving? I think that's what it was called. But even back then she said she wanted to be a midwife. I guess it's possible she was brainwashed back then but I tend to think they were able to at least consider their own career paths in those days.

 

It's one thing to say you want to be a midwife, and another to deal with the screaming, and the blood, and the potential complications and emergencies. I can completely believe that a teenage Jana thought that being a midwife would be wonderful, and an older Jana who had actually seen some births, and maybe gotten a bit of a wake-up call about her own personal strengths and weaknesses might have changed her mind.

[Sew Sumi]

It is also a "Gothard approved" vocation (avocation, in reality) for women. And they were fully steeped in the Gothard movement in those early specials. Watching them last night, armed with a ton of knowledge I didn't have then, was alarming and eye-opening. All the signs of JB/Mechelle checking out were already in place, as there was a shot of them walking in front of the kids holding hands as they went to Jackson's gender ultrasound, while the young teen/tween girls wrangled all those baby Howlers. Hell, even Smuggar pushed a stroller, probably containing Baby Justin. 

 

Now that's bad, and it's only become worse over the years. I know TH segments are often done months after the fact, but there is NO excuse for Mechelle not to show emotion when talking about the incident and their supposed rush to get home. I still don't know why JD couldn't have flown into a suburban airport and met them there. So many holes in that story. 

[bigskygirl]

The Josie may have epilepsy discussion is repetitive and speculative since it was not brought up in the episode. Also, please bring the talk about Jana going to college, being a doula or midwife, and anything else not related to being on in this episode to the Jana thread. The episode threads are for discussion about what was shown in the episode.

 

Posts not related to the episode will be deleted, edited, or move to the correct thread from now on. If you have questions or concerns about where to post or what to post, please feel free to send a PM to one of the mods. Thank you.

[hlemommy]

Wouldn't you guys freak out if your daughter had turned blue? I know I'd freak out. I can't blame jana at all

[BitterApple]

Wouldn't you guys freak out if your daughter had turned blue? I know I'd freak out. I can't blame jana at all

Jana reacted as any normal mother would. Michelle reacted like the non-emotionally involved teenaged babysitter from down the street.

[RedheadZombie]

I think Grandma was on the phone with 911. She was in the background but she was relaying instructions to Jana that sounded like they were coming from the operator. Jana doesn't seem to do well under pressure, IIRC the last time Josie had a seizure she was freaking out in the background while Jill calmly talked with the 911 operator. However since Josie is basically her kid it's understandable.

 

I want to phrase what I'm saying carefully, because I don't want it to appear that I'm criticizing Jana.  There's a special place in my heart for that girl, and she's practically a saint.  The truth is, Jill is a medical professional at heart (obviously lacking a degree), and she does well in these instances.  This is not Jana's strength, and some people just aren't cut out for handling this type of thing.

 

This whole scene with Josie was just out of control.  Some female (Joy, Jinger?) was just howling in the background, which just confused the situation even more.  Jana was holding Josie in that position, because they told her to tilt her head back.  I was very disturbed that Jana didn't seem to know to put her ear over Josie's mouth to listen for breathing, and didn't seem to really assess her breathing status until instructed by Mary via 911.  This is incredibly basic.  Jana also didn't seem to understand that tilting the head back was to open Josie's airway, and continued to hold her in that position during vomiting - the EMT noted the vomit in her mouth, and aspirating vomit is extremely dangerous.  Swallowing the tongue is something I would expect from a seventy year old.  Again, basic airway management ensures the tongue is not occluding the airway, and is part of CPR training.

 

The truth is, they most likely received all of this training before Josie was released from the hospital.  CPR would be different now that Josie's older, but the concept is unchanged.  I can imagine Michelle attending all of this training, playing the martyr mother, then handing her over to an untrained Jana.  That was fine when Jill was in the house for backup.  They need to stop the pretense and acknowledge that Jana is Josie's caregiver, and provide basic CPR training to boost her knowledge base and give her confidence.

 

Poor Jana was frozen in fear, and was focused primarily on praying - which is great, but let the Howlers do the praying, and teach Jana to handle these situations.  Again - not criticizing Jana.  It should not be her responsibility.  Unfortunately it is her responsibility, and for Josie's safety, Jana needs to be educated.  I think it would be a good idea if Joy was instructed as well, and they could talk through scenarios and practice together.

 

ETA:  I'm not very impressed with the EMT.  "Apparently she's breathing".  Either she is or isn't dumbass, and if she's not, you need to haul ass a little faster to the ambulance.  Good Lord, didn't he even assess her himself?

Edited May 3, 2015 by bigskygirl
Edited: Going off topic:Part of post not about episode

[BitterApple]

Redhead Zombie, I agree. In a perfect world all the adults in the household should have CPR and basic First Aid training, especially since there is a child in the home prone to seizures. The younger children should be educated on recognizing the signs of a seizure so they can run and grab an adult if Josie has an episode. However this is the Duggars were talking about so I won't get my hopes up.

[Chicklet]

Most of the NICU patients that were high risk had CPR instruction before leaving the hospital. I'm guessing that never happened with this family or they remembered nothing. And granted the kid is 4 or 5 now but wouldn't most families update their CPR knowledge every 2 years because you know, high risk child with health issues? Yea I know this is the Duggar's we are talking about.

Maybe they were hoping the seizures would go away like her floating intestines and Michelle's missing back muscle seem to have.

[truthtalk2014]

Did anyone notice that at the end of the room redo, they did a quick shot of the wall over one of the beds and there was a portrait of what looked to be MEchelle.  I hope I imagined it but if not, I just find it sick.  Who puts big framed pictures of their mothers on their bedroom wall?  It's just very strange to me.  Makes me wonder if there is one of Boob on another wall. 

[RazzleberryPie]

Most of the NICU patients that were high risk had CPR instruction before leaving the hospital. I'm guessing that never happened with this family or they remembered nothing. And granted the kid is 4 or 5 now but wouldn't most families update their CPR knowledge every 2 years because you know, high risk child with health issues? Yea I know this is the Duggar's we are talking about.

Maybe they were hoping the seizures would go away like her floating intestines and Michelle's missing back muscle seem to have.

Besides that, one of the first things you learn in First Responder training is basic CPR. Remember the emphasis about the girls being volunteer fire fighters a couple years ago? 

[cereality]

Did anyone notice that at the end of the room redo, they did a quick shot of the wall over one of the beds and there was a portrait of what looked to be MEchelle.  I hope I imagined it but if not, I just find it sick.  Who puts big framed pictures of their mothers on their bedroom wall?  It's just very strange to me.  Makes me wonder if there is one of Boob on another wall. 

Didn't see it but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. That home is ruled by fear and accountability to parents -- not by accountability to self or God. So what better deterrent esp to an older daughter if she is lying in bed having impure thoughts or God forbid doing something impure, that they can look up and see Mama and Daddy looking at them and stop immediately from fear of parental wrath if they somehow found out. I only hope the boys are subject to this as well, but I highly doubt it. There's got to be some serious jacking off happening in the boys' room, and if the girls are subject to having to see their parents faces during the act -- the boys should too.

[Vaysh]

I only hope the boys are subject to this as well, but I highly doubt it. There's got to be some serious jacking off happening in the boys' room

 

But on the other hand the boys have to confess all their impure thoughts and actions to Daddy (and I doubt they would get away with claiming they don't have any) which must be a huge deterrent to wanking, like constantly having your dad looking over your shoulder. I'd take a photo on the wall over that any day.

 

Ugh. I can't imagine living a life where your parents insist on knowing every single thing that goes on in your mind, especially sexual thoughts and feelings. So gross.

[leighdear]

I just watched this episode and there was a portrait over one of the beds of Michelle, Grandma Mary and another woman.  Next to it was the portrait of all of them in Japanese garb.  No single portraits of Michelle or Jim Bob in the sisters bedroom.   I like the color scheme of navy & cream with accents of turquoise (Jill's bridesmaid color) and coral (Jessa's bridesmaid color).  Very attractive to me. 

 

Jana specifically said "10 minutes" twice to the paramedic regarding the length of the seizure, then Grandma Mary confirmed "10 minutes".  Nobody there ever said "15 minutes".  And when Michelle & Jim Bob came into the house, Josie went running directly to Michelle.  Michelle scooped her up and was hugging and kissing her.  Jim Bob went over and wrapped his arms around both of them.  Michelle had Josie in her arms the whole time.  I didn't see any "disconnect" of any kind. And in describing what happened, Jana smiled a couple of times, but Michelle didn't. 

 

And as far as the term "glitch" goes, it's a short-lived fault in a system.  I think it's an appropriate way to describe a mild seizure in a child that may not continue as she grows older.  They could describe it as Josie's defect, abnormality, flaw, or imperfection, but I think glitch is a lot less scary a term to use around small children.  The older ones know the seriousness of it.