S10.E17: Nesting and Room Re-Do

[wanderwoman]

EXACTLY!!! Preach it, sister! Sometimes I'm mortified at what we write on this forum; other times I hope someone from that family is lurking and reading and learning (hey, it's my dream, it can go my way), and maybe even choking a little in humility. I've said before that I don't watch the show, but am fascinated by the fascination we all have for it. But I watched that ep tonight, and was just - as you said - speechless. How can this be? How can Michelle even sit there and calmly give a synopsis when her child was turning B.L.U.E.? How? I'm not a violent person by nature, and this is the second time in a week this family has made me want to reach through the screen and shake someone. Did you hear at the very beginning of that clip, Jana (with her ear over Josie's mouth) said, "She just took a breath!" She.Was.BLUE! I thought my head would explode.BTW, Wanderwoman, you are generally so articulate and paced in your posts. I could absolutely read the fury you packed and the gallop you were still doing when you wrote that. I know that whole episode hit you between the eyes. Did you throw something?

I didn't throw anything but I did curse loud enough for another NICU parent to giggle and ask, from the door to Maisie's area, if I was watching "that trainwreck".

I, too, heard Jana say, "she just took a breath". That along with the medic's remark to the ambulance driver that Josie was "barely breathing...go code 1" me and that they went lights and sirens because Josie was perceived to be in eminent distress. I would never criticize Jana's response. I will point out that her training as a first responder must have been very basic, or her relationship with Josie made it too traumatic, because she didn't follow seizure protocol for first responders. But, Jana was clearly traumatized and afraid. She was acting like a mother watching her child almost die. Unfortunately, Michelle can't see how wrong that is.

Wasn't Josie the one who got caught in the stair railings and michelle was laughing and JB said "It's not funny"? 

I have my doubts they were out of town at all, looked like they just got dressed up and walked in the door.

 

They're all about modesty but poor Josie was filmed in nothing but her underwear! She is allowed no dignity.

Preach! Millions of people just witnessed Josie knock on deaths door and saw her in a hospital bed. This poor little girl has no privacy.

And, to those who would say that the Duggars are damned if they do and dampened if they don't, I would say this:

Without any consideration for the long term impact on their family, Michelle and Jim Bob (two legal adults) decided an honest days work wasn't keeping their family afloat. They sold their privacy over to TLC under the flag of "total transparency about their religion and mission". However, this show has fabricated and recreated the lives of the Duggars so many times that it's no longer reality. It's made the Duggars cult celebrities. Think about this- from James on down, none of the last five (six, if you include the political statement/stunt that was Jubilee's funeral) have lived in a house without cameras or engaged in a normal environment. They have been wired for sound since birth. Their births were televised. Every moment of pain, awkwardness, and action has been filmed and distributed to the point where complete strangers think they know them. They've been denied a proper education and dignity all so that the production company can get the shot or plan an activity. Their education and privacy is second to the production. The Duggars are damned because rather than speak the truth or draw a line that says "health problems are or private", they USE illness, injury, and tragedy to get ratings and THEN clam up. If you don't want to talk about a child's seizures, that's your right. If you film it, deny that child the right to dignity and privacy, as a season cliff hanger, and then never parlay that into a discussion about the outcomes associated with mass breeding and prematurity, then you earn the hypocrite label.

[Marigold]

The only thing I noticed was that Michelle and Jim Bob were in their matching speaking outfits. If they were gonna fly or drive at a leisurely pace, they would be in casual clothes. It could be possible that they did drive or fly asap. Didn't look like they changed and went straight home.

I HATED this episode more than any of the episodes put together. It was vile and awful to film poor Josie like that. I would've been fine with a brief shot of her loading into the ambulance (like afar away shot) and the ambulance driving away. That's ENOUGH. Then give us a recap with the talking head segments. It was HORRIBLE to film that poor child having a seizure, half naked lying on a counter. Where is the modesty? They blurred out her torso but we could still her body and underwear through the blurs. The hospital shots of her lying there? That was awaful.

Disgusting.

[phoenix62]

I think it was best that Grandma and Deanna were not more hands-on. Too many people typically try to get involved in an emergency situation when someone is passed out and they crowd the patient instead of giving her/him air, and it often makes the situation more complicated than it needs to be. Jana and Scott were directly attending to Josie until the paramedics came, and I think that's how it should have been. 4 people, including Grandma, hovering over such a small child is not necessary.

 

Also, I don't think it's appropriate to criticize Jana's response. Most people cannot remain calm/level-headed when they are dealing with a medical emergency. When I was a teen, my father had a cardiac episode. We were the only ones at home. I called 911 and I know none of what I said to the operator made sense - I was a crying mess who couldn't even get words out. I was scared and felt helpless. I imagine that's how Jana felt. I think she did a great job and I hope she knows that.

 

I can't remember which child called Jana (was it James?), but I thought it was very telling that he immediately recognized that she was having a seizure when she was unresponsive. That tells me that she's had more '3-4' seizures.

 

I can't watch this show anymore.

I didn't watch the episode....I feel as you do, granted, it's like watching a train wreck....I can't look at anymore.

As to Jana, my heart goes out to her. It sounds like she was doing the best she could with what she knew...and I can only imagine just how terrified she was.

Seizures can be terrifying....once my little foster brother had a grand mal (tonic clonic)seizure in front of me and other kids when I was about 10 and it scared the crap out of me. (He had epilepsy).

[JennyMominFL]

 they brushed the seizure off, like Josie is 100% back to normal!!! Loving family reunion. Your child had to have a CAT Scan to ensure there wasn't any brain injury, it was a big deal. I'm unfamiliar with seizures or seizure disorders but it looked awful. Michelle and Jim Bob full on sauntered in the house as if it was a normal return home. If this is a semi-frequent occurrence acknowledge it. If you don't, you look like shitty parents who were somewhat inconvenienced by something that shook the rest of your family to their cores. Or show them getting an update from Jana at the hospital.  

She couldhave been back to normal, but clearly she wasn't. When my husband has a Tonic Clonic seizure it is awful to watch,but he is himself again withing 30 minutes, Albeit sore and sometimes with a headache. Sometimes he actually feels great, almost like his brain had a reboot. I am going to guess that she lifted Josie up to prevent her  from banging her head around on that tile floor. The first thing I do it remove anything my husband can hurt himself with and depending on where he is put  him in a soft spot.

 But ,and this is a big but, I always look at the clock when they start because if the actual seizure goes longer than 5 minutes there is a much bigger risk. That was an awfully long seizure for Josie and I'm sure that is why they did a CT scan. 

Edited April 29, 2015 by JennyMominFL

[jcbrown]

 

can't even imagine ever referring to a seizure as a "glitch". Michelle said, "I can't imagine or explain what it's like to get a phone call telling you your child is ill". You bitch!

I knew enough about this episode that it should not have infuriated me as much as it did but watching it was something totally different. There is "keeping sweet" and there is delusional narcissistic denial. MEchelle has the latter.

 

Something else that bugged me was Boob's controlling idiocy about redecorating the girls' room. None of them have even one thing to call just theirs and he has to stick his ugly horndog nose into the middle of their one attempt to feel a little control? I know he has to be the one in charge at all times but I just wanted to smack his stupid face in those scenes.

 

Also, what was the column in the middle of the room that looked like a pile of boxes with drawers in them, does anyone know? I could not figure out if it was functional or decorative.

 

ETA: Thinking about this episode more (I clearly need a life), I think it was partially the episode's (lack of) structure that made the seizure part so infuriating. "Lalala, look at us redecorating our room, look at Jill shop for nursery furniture, look at Boob flirt with MEchelle's friend, look at Josie almost stop breathing and have to be transported to the hospital by ambulance. Golly, isn't it all so neat and precious?" The footage of Josie having a seizure was so tacked on and tonally jarring that it just felt like they swept it all under the rug. An episode dealing with the actual challenges faced by a micro-preemie as she grows up, perhaps including respectful treatment of her seizure disorder, could have been well done and informative. This was just more hypocritical Duggar bullshit and lack of boundaries, it was tacked on and not handled appropriately, and it was at Josie's expense.

Edited April 29, 2015 by jcbrown

[MyNextLifetime]

While I wouldn't put it past the Duggars to use a child's medical condition (or "glitch") as a story line on a reality TV show, I am surprised they allowed that segment to be aired.  As Image conscious as they are, it did paint them in a bad light.  Knowing your child is in a fragile condition it seems negligent for BOTH parents to leave town and have an older child left in charge.  Then to come parading in after the fact just left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Also, for a family that preaches being humble, they sure do LOVE to brag about how absolutely fabulous everything they do is.

Edited April 29, 2015 by MyNextLifetime

[buddabing]

I loved Jessa cooking that owners manual. Maybe she is just a bit air headed? I know lots of people that practice cooking and never get better. I think it gets down to if you like it or not. If you hate doing something like cooking. I guess it's little motivation to get much better at it. Also if you are horrible at something in a huuuuge family, or very slow at it. Maybe at home her sisters always stepped in and took over?

[graefin]

Whether or not they are image conscious, they are also completely lacking in self-awareness. So even if they care how they come across to the public, they probably don't know when their behavior makes them look terrible.

 

Michelle's constant uptalking (did she use to do this?) makes her look even more insane than she already does. She can't imagine (?) or explain what it's like to get that phone call because she does not experience the normal emotions a parent would.

 

Also, Jana stated in a previous episode that the reason she chose doula training as opposed to midwifery like Jill is precisely because she does not like having the responsibility of making decisions for the person in her care. So this must have been extra stressful for her.

[ohthatkat]

Aaaaand it's official: TLC and the Duggars BOTH swept Josie's obvious problems (the "4 or 5" seizures that Mechelle admits to are worrisome) under the rug. Something beyond febrile seizures is going on there. A 13 year old in a house with 15 other siblings shouldn't be able to pinpoint a seizure like that. Especially given that Josie is not the same gender or even close to James' age group. I doubt those two have much, if any real contact at all. That said, HE NOTICED IT.

It's more than "4 or 5," Mechelle. Pay attention to those kids that you are so proud of delivering. Now that I've seen it play out on screen, I'm with wanderwoman; I'm so ANGRY on behalf of all of the Duggar kids, but especially Precious Miracle.

Exactly. And plus five and six year olds shouldn't be having febrile seizures...it's more of an infant/toddler thing IIRC.

[Jenilane6]

I would love it if some organization called MEchelle and Boob to come to a Mother of the Year award, told them to bring all the kids, and then gave the award to Jana.  Mechelle has babies like someone in a pie-eating contest.  She doesn't enjoy it, just on to the next.

[Dr.Scully]

I knew enough about this episode that it should not have infuriated me as much as it did but watching it was something totally different. There is "keeping sweet" and there is delusional narcissistic denial. MEchelle has the latter.

I couldn't agree more. I felt a visceral hatred for MEchelle in that scene that surprised me in its intensity. I personally don't believe MEchelle and The Boob have any business spending even one night away from their children. Not when they have that many. It never ceases to amaze me how often these two go gallivanting off by themselves on date nights, political rallies, speaking engagements, missions, etc. They spend more time alone than couples with 2 children! When they couldn't logistically have enough time to spend with each child as it is! It's astonishing.

I also noticed that she said, "one of Josie's little glitcheS." Plural. I wonder how many other "glitches" the poor thing has and if they're better or worse than freaking seizures.

[ohthatkat]

Who's Deanna again?

Deanna is Amy's mom/boobs sister/grandmas daughter.

[BitterApple]

True, she seems more competent but I didn't love that the patients are weighing themselves & taking their own blood pressures. Cost cutting measures? And if I was heavily pregnant I would not want to attempt all of those steps.

Right?! Maybe that's what women are into nowadays but I thought it was tacky. It reminded me of the time I tried a new hairdresser and she handed me a blow dryer and asked me to start my hair so she could tend to another client she had double booked. It's like what am I paying you for? I thought the office was a little low rent but much better than Jill's Deliverance shack.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Deanna is Amy's mom/boobs sister/grandmas daughter.

 

Was she the one who took off to one side waving her hands and appearing to be crying when Jana was at the sink with Josie?  She appeared to be of no help whatsoever with her hysteria.

[IndianPaintbrush]

I loved Jessa cooking that owners manual. Maybe she is just a bit air headed?

That was funny in an endearing way.  It's totally something I would do, and I would blame whoever installed the oven.  :)

 

I don't have much else to add about the Josie incident, except to agree that while parents cannot be everywhere 100% of the time, Michelle has already demonstrated that she has zero interest in parenting her younger kids.  The casual way they walked in the house was very off-putting.

[truthtalk2014]

When you take kids to the grocery store, and they are running off... Don't you make them keep one hand on the cart? Or since you have two people, just grab another cart and make the other little boy sit inside one.... It seems if you have three kids you'd have a strategy. Also give kids something to do so they don't run aimlessly. If you two behave you will get a treat when we leave:) Not sugar while we are still shopping.. Holy cow!

 

I think Josh has been delving into the free cookies at the grocery store as well.

 

Refresh my memory...what was the episode where Jana and Jill had to handle another medical emergency for Josie, and Jim Bob and Michelle were out of the country at that time, in El Salvador? I'm wondering how long ago that was.

While I agree that parents of children with epilepsy are certainly allowed to leave the house, my humble opinion is that it's wrong for Jim Bob and Michelle to go away from home overnight many times throughout the year and expect your daughters and their grandmother to care for her in your absence. If she's your precious Miracle child, then take her with you on these trips so that you can be the one to handle the emergency..not Grandma, not your daughter, or the producer of the show. 

Is it me or does it seem as if Boob and MEchelle don't take any 'littles' on trips when they don't have an older sibling to care for them?

 

I can't remember.  If it has happened someone please refresh my memory.  At the moment, I despise MEchelle more than ever.  

Edited April 29, 2015 by truthtalk2014

[truthtalk2014]

I loved Jessa cooking that owners manual. Maybe she is just a bit air headed? I know lots of people that practice cooking and never get better. I think it gets down to if you like it or not. If you hate doing something like cooking. I guess it's little motivation to get much better at it. Also if you are horrible at something in a huuuuge family, or very slow at it. Maybe at home her sisters always stepped in and took over?

I would have thought it staged, however when I had the family over for my first meal after I was married, I left the paper stuff (I hate to even think of it) in the turkey.  After it was cooked and I realized it, I gracefully pulled it out and threw it away.  No one saw it.  Served the turkey and everyone thought it was wonderful.  lol  and yuck!  

 

EDIT to add:  OMG I have an even more embarrassing  story.  We had some friends and neighbors over one night for wine and I had my beautiful new (only a few months old) Louis Vuitton purse sitting on the counter.  I didn't want to rush away so I tucked it in the oven.  (I know crazy.)

 

The next morning, I turned on the broiler- as I did each morning for toast.  Still sad when I think of the smell of burning leather and discovering that my purse handles were burned.  

Edited April 29, 2015 by truthtalk2014

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I would have thought it staged, however when I had the family over for my first meal after I was married, I left the paper stuff (I hate to even think of it) in the turkey.  After it was cooked and I realized it, I gracefully pulled it out and threw it away.  No one saw it.  Served the turkey and everyone thought it was wonderful.  lol  and yuck!  

 

LOL  I have had my share of learning the hard way too like Jessa!  It was cute and glad she smelled it before it caught on fire!  Hard to believe after having chores all her life including kitchen ones she doesn't feel more comfortable in the kitchen and referred to what she learned in Italy as opposed to her whole life at home.  

 

I do feel bad for Ben not being able to breathe.  It is hard to listen to him when he is so stuffed up.  His attempt at speaking about heat and a/c was painful and awkward but likely important to him as it controls his allergies.  Odd they had never discussed it before.

[Mrsjumbo]

Maybe the J'Boob & MEchelle arrival scene was staged after the fact? And that's why they were walking so casually? I don't believe anything I see in "reality" TV (except Hoarders).

Edited April 29, 2015 by Mrsjumbo

[SomePity1066]

First, I will never, ever use the word "glitch" again in my lifetime. The sound of it puts a bitter taste in my mouth now. 

 

Second, when my father had a stroke and fell down the steps in front of me and nearly died, I didn't explain it to my family as him being "a bit off" or "That man will drive me to distraction with his hijinx !". It was a sober, quiet, respectful explanation of his condition told with as few tears as I could muster, though I was hardly capable of doing that very well. Michelle's "Josie's had a seizure" had that breathless quality to it in the same vein as when she finds TaterTots on sale or they get new ric-rak in at the local JoAnn Fabrics. She's just...dead on the inside, with no filter to weed out the keeping-it-sweet veneer of placidity. What DO you get upset about, Michelle ? Anything ? Seriously - ANYTHING ?!?!

 

Third, I feel more pity than ever for Jana, Jinger, and, by extension, Joy, as they take over the child-rearing for all the younger Howler Monkeys, Lost Boys, and Lost Girls that used to be divvied up by 4/5 people. At what point does it reach critical mass ? If two more older girls get married that leaves just one (probably Jana, unfortunately) to manage the whole shebang, which is getting pretty close to resembling Lord of the Flies as it is. 

 

For the love of Jove, Michelle, take care of YOUR OWN CHILDREN and let those poor girls have a life !

[TomServo]

True, she seems more competent but I didn't love that the patients are weighing themselves & taking their own blood pressures. Cost cutting measures? And if I was heavily pregnant I would not want to attempt all of those steps.

 

It's a thing that some birth centers (and even doctor's offices) do to ease "white coat syndrome."  When I was pregnant, I weighed myself but I didn't do my own blood pressure reading.

[DangerousMinds]

I loved Jessa cooking that owners manual. Maybe she is just a bit air headed? I know lots of people that practice cooking and never get better. I think it gets down to if you like it or not. If you hate doing something like cooking. I guess it's little motivation to get much better at it. Also if you are horrible at something in a huuuuge family, or very slow at it. Maybe at home her sisters always stepped in and took over?

I think Jessa "cooking the manual" was all a fake storyline.

[SomePity1066]

I had my beautiful new (only a few months old) Louis Vuitton purse sitting on the counter.  I didn't want to rush away so I tucked it in the oven.  (I know crazy.)

The next morning, I turned on the broiler- as I did each morning for toast.  Still sad when I think of the smell of burning leather and discovering that my purse handles were burned.

Oh ! The humanity ! I think I had a little stroke reading that. Rest in Peace, poor, poor beautiful LV bag. You were loved...

[DangerousMinds]

LOL  I have had my share of learning the hard way too like Jessa!  It was cute and glad she smelled it before it caught on fire!  Hard to believe after having chores all her life including kitchen ones she doesn't feel more comfortable in the kitchen and referred to what she learned in Italy as opposed to her whole life at home.  

 

I do feel bad for Ben not being able to breathe.  It is hard to listen to him when he is so stuffed up.  His attempt at speaking about heat and a/c was painful and awkward but likely important to him as it controls his allergies.  Odd they had never discussed it before.

All I could think about was the obvious fact tha neither even gave a thought to the cost of said heat and A/C.

[Chicklet]

 

I will point out that her training as a first responder must have been very basic,

I have to ding Jana on this, she went through first responder training so she absolutely knew she should have put Josie on her side and that people seizing don't breathe and they will frequently turn blue. But again she is Josie's real mother and not her egg donor so I might cut her some tiny slack.

And as much as it kills me, I have to say that Meechelle hugged Jana and told her she loved her which almost made me slide off my chair. I don't ever remember her saying that to any kid. 

[ohthatkat]

Was she the one who took off to one side waving her hands and appearing to be crying when Jana was at the sink with Josie? She appeared to be of no help whatsoever with her hysteria.

Possibly, I'm not sure. I don't recognize her as easily.

[TomServo]

Think about this- from James on down, none of the last five (six, if you include the political statement/stunt that was Jubilee's funeral) have lived in a house without cameras or engaged in a normal environment. They have been wired for sound since birth. Their births were televised. Every moment of pain, awkwardness, and action has been filmed and distributed to the point where complete strangers think they know them. They've been denied a proper education and dignity all so that the production company can get the shot or plan an activity. Their education and privacy is second to the production...

 

So much this.  If you get a chance, look up the open letter that the surviving Dionne quints wrote to the McCaughey family back in the day urging them to let their children have a normal childhood and not be used for public entertainment and marketing.  Substitute or add "ministry" in the Duggar's case.  You can teach your child to minister to others without turning all of what should be their private moments into a media spectacle.

More and more I'm convinced that the best thing you can do to help those kids have a chance in life is to tank the ratings, get them off the air, and give them their privacy back.  Even if that means less money for them to live on.  Don't buy the magazines they're in, don't watch the show, don't go to their book signings to rubberneck, etc.  Don't feed the frenzy.

[GEML]

I haven't seen the episode (downside of overseas move!) but what you all say is appalling. There is epilepsy in my family, so I've experienced quite a bit of it. It does sound like this is a fairly common occurrence for Josie (and as pointed out, epilepsy means two unexplained seizures in a lifetime. It's that basic of a disgnosis). So I'm guessing Jana panicked due to the length, which is excessive (anything over five minutes is a grave concern).

But she did panic. And her care of Josie, from the description was horrible to read, especially in light of her training both as a first responder and as a doula which should have helped her be calm under pressure if nothing else. She is not the right person to be caring for a child with that kind of an ongoing issue if she can't handle it, and it seems she can't. Josie isn't her child.

And I also want to add that Marsha Jackson is an excellent midwife. No toilet births to see here, folks! I'm so relieved to know Anna will be seeing her for the next birth!

Edited April 29, 2015 by GEML

[3girlsforus]

It's a thing that some birth centers (and even doctor's offices) do to ease "white coat syndrome."  When I was pregnant, I weighed myself but I didn't do my own blood pressure reading.

 

Also - they will do it for you if you prefer but it's really not that big of a deal. 

And I also want to add that Marsha Jackson is an excellent midwife. No toilet births to see here, folks! I'm so relieved to know Anna will be seeing her for the next birth!

 

I couldn't agree more. Marsha is excellent. 

[Literata]

If one positive thing comes from this, maybe, just maybe, it will motivate a network to finally do some sort of Dateline-type investigation into this mess. I predict there will be one eventually -- perhaps not of the Duggars specifically, but of Gothardism and, by association, the Duggars. It can't come too soon.

Josie's little blue face on that kitchen counter was upsetting. And poor Jana ... my God. What Boob and MEchelle have done to that young woman. She should be working in her first post-college job, maybe moving into a condo or house, going out with her girlfriends, watching "Girls" and "House of Cards," eating convenience-store burritos at 2 a.m. after downing one too many beers, doing yoga, sleeping till noon on weekends ... she'll never get these years back.

[dargosmydaddy]

I thought it was interesting that they didn't use James in the talking heads, when he was the one who spotted the seizures. Instead, the only younger one who commented (other than Josie herself) was the randomly babbling Jackson.

 

I wonder if James didn't want to talk about it. (Do they get a choice?)

[3girlsforus]

I have a question for those of you who have experience with epilepsy. How is it diagnosed? Obviously there are such things as febrile seizures and I was surprised to find out from a nurse friend of mine that they can be longer than the 30 sec - 1 min I thought. And if you have one febrile seizure you probably will have more before you outgrow them. That said, this seems like so much more than that. Are there tests for epilepsy or is it diagnosed by evaluating seizures? Is there a chance Josie hasn't been diagnosed with epilepsy yet but is being watched for patterns or increased frequency in seizures? 

[Carolyn15]

These are sometimes called a load and go- it usually means they need to get to the Hospital ASAP . They will do more involved eval in the squad on the way to the Hospital  .  

Edited April 29, 2015 by Carolyn15

[JennyMominFL]

I have a question for those of you who have experience with epilepsy. How is it diagnosed? Obviously there are such things as febrile seizures and I was surprised to find out from a nurse friend of mine that they can be longer than the 30 sec - 1 min I thought. And if you have one febrile seizure you probably will have more before you outgrow them. That said, this seems like so much more than that. Are there tests for epilepsy or is it diagnosed by evaluating seizures? Is there a chance Josie hasn't been diagnosed with epilepsy yet but is being watched for patterns or increased frequency in seizures? 

My husband has epilepsy but he already had it when I met him. He had blood  tests, eeg, MRI cat scans etc. That was 30 years ago though and I have no idea how it's done now. I think it can be a process of elimination thing until you get to Epilepsy.  

[JenCarroll]

Well, here's an interesting point. The episode may be undergoing editing even as we speak. Amazon Instant Video usually has the episodes available the morning after they air. Today the Family Dinner episode is available but NOT the other episode that aired last night, which contained the seizure and has already generated a lot of backlash. I wonder if they're doing a little re-editing. Amazon is not always 100% consistent in posting episodes right away, so it's possible that it's just a coincidence. But I know we've seen some ugliness magically disappear from re-runs before.

(I don't have cable or any pay TV service, so when I want to watch something I'll usually pay per episode or per season on Amazon, or wait for it to come on Netflix, usually a season later.)

[NikSac]

Geml I found myself wondering if Jana would have possibly been calmer with less people around. She had a bunch of people there watching her, plus the film crew, producers, etc.  I think she would have been very scared either way, but in a way that added extra pressure on her.

Edited April 30, 2015 by NikSac

[Vaysh]

 

But she did panic. And her care of Josie, from the description was horrible to read, especially in light of her training both as a first responder and as a doula which should have helped her be calm under pressure if nothing else. She is not the right person to be caring for a child with that kind of an ongoing issue if she can't handle it, and it seems she can't. Josie isn't her child.

I never got the impression that Jana trained as a first responder OR as a doula because she had any genuine interest, wish or disposition to actually become one of those things. She was dragged along to be an accountability partner for her siblings, that is it. I don't know if she was vocal about her lack of interest when it came to the first responder gig, but she was pretty clear from the start that being a doula wasn't her thing, it was Jill's. From experience I know how difficult it can be to internalize knowledge or skills that you have absolutely no interest in, especially if they don't match your general personality.

 

Jana appears to have enough self-knowledge to realise she doesn't like and/or isn't suited for the responsibilites involved with being a first responder or doula, but it appears that her parents either don't realise this or don't care (I'm betting on the latter). So Jana is left alone (really alone now that Jill is gone) with the responsibility of caring for a child who keeps having seizures, without the skills or the personality suited for such a responsibility. And the real tragedy is that she can't really say no, even if she does realise her limitations. Because what are her options, leaving Josie in the care of Michelle? The woman who sees a 15 minute seizure with accompanying respiratory arrest (your child turned BLUE, you mad cow!) as a "glitch". I agree with others here who say that Jana is more of a mother to Josie than Michelle is, and what sane mother would leave her child's welfare in the hands of that narcissistic loon?

Edited April 29, 2015 by Vaysh

[Missy Vixen]

 

 

Jana deserves a goddamn award for the crap she's had to deal with single-handedly in that family.  If it looked like she cried like she was Josie's mother during the seizure, it's because SHE IS.  I hate Michelle.  When she used the word "glitch" to describe Josie's seizures, I nearly spilled my coffee down the front of my shirt.  I can't say much more here right now without cursing A LOT more.

 

:applauds wildly:

It is my every hope that Jana either meets a guy who is the embodiment of everything she most wants in a life partner and marries her ASAP, or she is able to pursue some of the things SHE wants in life, like perhaps a college education or sleeping in a bedroom that's not populated with her elementary school sisters. It is nothing short of disgusting that J-Chelle is so cavalier about her responsibilities as a parent, and has been since the oldest four daughters assumed HER workload.

 

One also has to wonder if Jim Boob and J-Chelle even bothered with executing the necessary paperwork so that Jana wasn't met at the hospital by a doctor telling her they could not treat Josie without permission of her parents.

 

And Suzy Lee, I'll join you in that pottymouth.

[wanderwoman]

Jana seems, for all purposes, to be a gracious young woman who genuinely loves her siblings and is selfless. Selfless to a dangerous level. Just imho, I think Michelle relies on Jana far more than she should and the fact that Michelle was oblivious to the trauma Jana endured is almost criminal. I know, I know, "but, wanderwoman, we don't see everything". We don't need to. I don't think that homecoming scene was fake or re-shot based on Josie's reaction. Seeing Michelle give Jana a standard, fleeting side hug told me what I needed to know. If that had been my daughter, I would've been in tears, begging forgiveness and showing profound gratitude to the young lady that dealt with a situation far beyond her years and responsibility. Michelle undoubtedly loves her children- but, Jana, Jill, and Jessa have been the moms for a very long time. There are just too many incidents where Michelle is absent to be a fluke. This woman booked a charter flight from Big Sandy to rush home in time for her daughter in law to give birth. She also dropped everything for Michael and Marcus' births. She is in love with all things pregnant. But, she couldn't, with all the pull TLC has and the unseen, but undoubtedly there, cadre of like-minded Christians find a way to get from Chicago to Rogers?

A 15 minute seizure is indicative of neurological problems. While a fever might trigger a seizure, it's not the underlying cause.

[JennyMominFL]

:applauds wildly:

It is my every hope that Jana either meets a guy who is the embodiment of everything she most wants in a life partner and marries her ASAP, or she is able to pursue some of the things SHE wants in life, like perhaps a college education or sleeping in a bedroom that's not populated with her elementary school sisters. It is nothing short of disgusting that J-Chelle is so cavalier about her responsibilities as a parent, and has been since the oldest four daughters assumed HER workload.

 

One also has to wonder if Jim Boob and J-Chelle even bothered with executing the necessary paperwork so that Jana wasn't met at the hospital by a doctor telling her they could not treat Josie without permission of her parents.

 

And Suzy Lee, I'll join you in that pottymouth.

If Josie was in a life threatening situation they would treat her right away. 

[Chicklet]

Children with seizures usually undergo lots of bloodwork and eeg's as well as cat scans to rule out tumors/fractures things like that. It doesn't usually take forever to diagnose, it just seems to me that the Duggars aren't taking her issue seriously- she's a 4-5 yr old, they get fevers frequently and then the seizures would happen (usually the seizures are from the fever going up fast and not just the fever in itself). IF INDEED it's febrile seizures and not an issue related to her prematurity.

Ok most kids with seizures even freq febrile seizures of that severity usually have some rectal benzos at home to use. Josie doesn't seem to have those, maybe she should.

Some of my own family members depend on Jesus to make sure they never have seizures again. Yea that works well.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Chicklet

[Mrsjumbo]

:applauds wildly:

It is my every hope that Jana either meets a guy who is the embodiment of everything she most wants in a life partner and marries her ASAP, or she is able to pursue some of the things SHE wants in life, like perhaps a college education or sleeping in a bedroom that's not populated with her elementary school sisters. It is nothing short of disgusting that J-Chelle is so cavalier about her responsibilities as a parent, and has been since the oldest four daughters assumed HER workload.

One also has to wonder if Jim Boob and J-Chelle even bothered with executing the necessary paperwork so that Jana wasn't met at the hospital by a doctor telling her they could not treat Josie without permission of her parents.

And Suzy Lee, I'll join you in that pottymouth.

We all want this for Jana- an independent life free from caring for her siblings- but realistically, it's not going to happen. At least until she's not needed. Edited April 30, 2015 by Mrsjumbo

[Missy Vixen]

You bitch! That's all I can say and if I get smacked down for it, then so be it. How can you possibly act like the medical emergencies that seem to constantly beleaguer your family are some inconvenience or about YOU?

I also hope this is okay to say: I LOVE the mama bears on this site. Your kids are lucky to have you. And I hope those kids grow up happy, healthy and know how much they are loved.

 

Any other parent would have opened their wallet at the Alaska Airlines counter and said "I don't care how much it will cost me." I saw a guy at O'Hare a few years back walk into the departure lounge I was sitting in, pull out his wallet and start peeling off $100's because he was afraid he'd miss his kid's birthday party. He was asking other passengers if they would be so kind as to allow him to buy them a ticket on a later flight in exchange for their seat. (The Alaska employee was sweet enough to offer the passenger who volunteered their seat a complimentary upgrade with a rescheduled flight so it didn't cost the guy with the $100's, but he did stick some money into that passenger's hand and say "Take your wife out to dinner on me," before we all boarded. Very sweet.

 

My point, and I do have one: Does anyone here believe for ONE MINUTE that the Duggars could present themselves at a ticket counter anywhere in the United States by now and say their child was in the hospital due to medical emergency, one or both had to get home, and the airline would NOT move heaven and earth to make it happen? Seriously?

[NEGirl]

3girlsforus - A family member was diagnosed with severe Grand Mal seizures when he was a pre-teen. After he had his first seizure he had numerous EEG's CAT Scans and MRI's through the years. His seizures could often last 15 minutes. As a toddler, he suffered from Febrile seizures from the age of 2-4 when he had a high fever. The doctor said he would outgrow them and he did.  I am not a doctor, but it looked to me like Josie was having a grand mal seizure.  If you have two or more seizures you are considered  suffering from epilepsy.  When he was in his  20's, he had brain surgery to remove scar tissue causing the seizures. He has been seizure free for many years.

It is so sad that TLC and Boob and Mechelle allowed this to be shown on tv. I know my nephew, though older than Josie, was always upset and embarassed if he had a seizure in public(which happened very often).  And I agree, JB seemed far more concerned than J'Chelle.

Edited April 30, 2015 by NEGirl

[BradandJanet]

Michelle undoubtedly loves her children- but, Jana, Jill, and Jessa have been the moms for a very long time. 

 

I think Michelle loves herself most of all. She does a great imitation (read into that) of a narcissist, using the people around her as extensions of her own ego. I would be amazed if Michelle would ever make any kind of personal sacrifice just for the sake of any of her children. 

 

I stopped regular watching a long time ago to await the day this house of cards collapses.

[BitterApple]

It's amazing how JimBob and Michelle are always mysteriously absent any time there's a major emergency with Josie. Obviously you can't predict when a kid is going to have a seizure but it makes me wonder how much time the two of them spend on the road while Jana is stuck at home taking care of the brood. I would also LOVE to be inside Grandma Mary's head to know what she thinks of all of this.

[3girlsforus]

Thanks NEgirl. I am glad your nephew is seizure free. I missed last night's episode but from the description it sounds like so much more than febrile seizures. I'm so worried about Josie.  It angers me that it seems that she isn't getting the medical care she needs. I'd love to believe they just aren't showing it but if they are willing to show her seizing you would think they would at least mention her getting care. 

[leighdear]

We all want this for Jana- an independent life free from caring for her siblings

But she may not actually want that.  She's 25 years old and regardless of how the audience feels, she may prefer to be with people she understands and who's behavior she can predict.  She may need to be needed.  She may take comfort from the known.  She may like to have "adventures" within the safety & security of her own family.  She may not ever want the responsibility of caring for herself.  She seems like a lovely young lady, but I see little self-confidence or passion for anything. 

 

I've known a couple of people like that who didn't come from large families.   Some fear being alone or in new situations.  And where most people will feel a sense of accomplishment in pursuing an education or particular vocation, they felt panic and insecurity.  Being independent means making choices.  Some people don't like that.

 

I'm no huge Duggar defender, but I don't assume that Jana is forcibly being held back from a "real life".  She may well be, but where she is could also be by her own choosing.

[bigskygirl]

A quick reminder about staying on topic. Please post about what happen on the show and not personal stories about family members or friends who have seizures or epilepsy. If you like to discuss or post about your family or friends having seizures or epilepsy, please go to the Small Talk thread. Thank you.

[Absolom]

Ratings:  3.230 M viewers and a 1.2 rating.

 

What TLC and the Duggars learned from that is exploiting Josie is sure fire ratings boost.