S10.E15: European Honeymoon

[TheDoctorsCompanio]

I'll give them a pass on the love lock thing since everyone does it. I knew about the bridge and wanted to do it whenever I travel to Paris with my boyfriend. But I had no idea it was so frowned upon and borderline illegal. I thought it was a nice tradition from the city of romance.

Besides I thought the engraved lock was cute and a nice surprise. Ben is a romantic.

[cereality]

I don't see why we're being so hyper critical of the lock thing just bc Ben and Jessa did it. Millions of people do it every yr. If that's making the bridges unstable and needs to be banned -- fine -- ban it, remove the locks, and put up signs. But if millions of others engage in that activity, I don't see why it's so terrible that Ben brought along a lock. Sure they have lots of issues and aren't perfect, but in this instance they were acting like 99% of honeymooners out there.

[NikSac]

I don't like the lock thing in general because I've seen it on the news way too much how it's hurting the bridges, the rivers, etc. My husband took one look at a picture of it and said "hell no we wouldn't drive on that, or be on a boat under it!" - but I don't fault Ben and Jessa. I think they were doing a cute honeymoon activity that tons of people do, and I was a little impressed Ben even knew enough about the world to know about it. I thought the lock he made was romantic and (dare I say it?) sweet.

[birkenstock]

I'm disappointed that TLC showed the lovelocks. It's been a well publicized problem over the past year or two. Ben and Jessa didn't know any better but I'm sure the producers knew about the debate surrounding it. I cringed when Leslie and Ben did it on Parks and Rec also and was annoyed at NBC then. Parisian authorities should be fining those who take part in it. It is a major problem that has affected the cityscape. They've had to replace beautiful ironwork with plexiglass in some areas.

 

ETA: I can understand why couples want to do this. It just kills me that there is a structural impact on centuries-old bridges. It's much bigger than Jessa and Ben.

One more observation from the episode: I was surprised that Jessa and Ben's wedding photos were available so quickly after the wedding for the Duggars to frame in time for the renovation reveal. I wonder if TLC rush ordered it.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Cocka doodle dont

[Hpmec]

I'm sure the lovelock was the producer's idea and Ben went along with it. I'm confident TLC planned and paid for the entire trip. No way in hell was Boob shelling out for a European honeymoon, and Ben would have had to scrub a lot of toilets to even pay for parking at the airport. Jessa still thinks Paris, Rome, and Venice are countries, so it's pretty obvious she had nothing to do with the planning. Amazing how the Duggars manage to use their "ministry" to get just about every perk imaginable.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Hpmec

[TheDoctorsCompanio]

I'm disappointed that TLC showed the lovelocks. It's been a well publicized problem over the past year or two. Ben and Jessa didn't know any better but I'm sure the producers knew about the debate surrounding it. I cringed when Leslie and Ben did it on Parks and Rec also and was annoyed at NBC then. Parisian authorities should be fining those who take part in it. It is a major problem that has affected the cityscape. They've had to replace beautiful ironwork with plexiglass in some areas.

One more observation from the episode: I was surprised that Jessa and Ben's wedding photos were available so quickly after the wedding for the Duggars to frame in time for the renovation reveal. I wonder if TLC rush ordered it.

I noticed the wedding photos being done quickly too. Anyone know the time frame from the wedding to the return to the renovated house?

[bren70]

But they did not leave for their honeymoon right away. They didn't leave for Europe until about 1.5 weeks after the wedding. Jessa mentioned that they had been staying in a local hotel between the wedding and leaving for Europe. Then if they were in Europe for 10 days or whatever....plenty of time for the family to get the wedding photos back and ready.

Edited April 24, 2015 by bren70

[roamyn]

But they did not leave for their honeymoon right away. They didn't leave for Europe until about 1.5 weeks after the wedding. Jessa mentioned that they had been staying in a local hotel between the wedding and leaving for Europe. Then if they were in Europe for 10 days or whatever....plenty of time for the family to get the wedding photos back and ready.

Yeah, you can upload them to Shutterfly and pick them up at Walgreen's days later.

[graefin]

The other thing I noticed in this episode is how much Jordyn's verbal skills are atrophying compared to Josie's. I have to assume that's because Josie's mother--I mean buddy--is still at home and paying attention to her, while Jordyn's likely started checking out over a year ago--and is now gone completely.

[JenCarroll]

Josie just doesn't let her get a word in edgewise. They should pair

Jordan up with someone else.

[Sew Sumi]

But they did not leave for their honeymoon right away. They didn't leave for Europe until about 1.5 weeks after the wedding. Jessa mentioned that they had been staying in a local hotel between the wedding and leaving for Europe. Then if they were in Europe for 10 days or whatever....plenty of time for the family to get the wedding photos back and ready.

Yes, it was about 3 weeks. I was shocked that Ben took that much time away from his studies (although they claimed that he did work on their trip...it's his honeymoon...very doubtful).

[wanderwoman]

I don't see why we're being so hyper critical of the lock thing just bc Ben and Jessa did it. Millions of people do it every yr. If that's making the bridges unstable and needs to be banned -- fine -- ban it, remove the locks, and put up signs. But if millions of others engage in that activity, I don't see why it's so terrible that Ben brought along a lock. Sure they have lots of issues and aren't perfect, but in this instance they were acting like 99% of honeymooners out there.

If 99% of honeymooners wanted to hang a lock on the Statue of Liberty, would it be okay? If everyone decided that it was romantic to put locks on the Golden Gate Bridge, would it be considered cool? What about scratching their initials into Mt. Rushmore or the Grand Canyon? The love locks aren't a time honored custom with hundreds of years of history. They're a narcissistic declaration of immaturity and disregard for other people's property, culture, and neighborhoods. If the playground equipment in your neighborhood was vandalized with people attaching locks on the swings, would it be ok?

My take on the Love Locks, do you have any idea how many locks it would take to make up the weight of just one car. And how many cars pass over a bridge at one time. It seems to me if the locks were a problem the government would cut them off. In the past year I've seen five TV shows with people putting locks on bridges in France, I think it's just the media make something out of nothing as usually. When it comes to the Duggars instead of snarking on them that we choose to bitch them down instead.

Actually, those locks add significant weight and stress. On just one bridge, in less than five years, five fence panels literally disintegrated from the weight and corrosion. Would it be funny if one of those locks or panels fell into a ferry passing underneath the bridge, killing or wounding a child? What about the people who climb up the lamp posts to find an available space? If they fall, who is responsible? The bridges in Paris where these locks rare attached are NOT interstate bridges. They're foot traffic bridges built in an era where horses and a carriage were the maximum weifht. Your comment, while well intended I'm sure, is part of the problem. People assume that the bridges are modern marvels of engineering when they're really treasured, historic and culturally important landmarks. The French government shouldn't have to pass a law - although it's in the works- to keep people from vandalism. It's common sense. Leave only footprints and take only memories. Ben and Jessa are now married adults, not children. But, hey....maybe we should all show our commitment to the show and our love for the Duggars by attaching locks to the gates of the Duggar compound? Or, maybe just dump our positive pregnancy tests onto their front yard in celebration of our pregnancies? :)

[JennyMominFL]

My take on the Love Locks, do you have any idea how many locks it would take to make up the weight of just one car. And how many cars pass over a bridge at one time. It seems to me if the locks were a problem the government would cut them off. In the past year I've seen five TV shows with people putting locks on bridges in France, I think it's just the media make something out of nothing as usually. When it comes to the Duggars instead of snarking on them that we choose to bitch them down instead.

It is a real problem. A section of the bridges collapsed last year

http://www.latimes.com/travel/la-trb-love-locks-paris-20140610-story.html

[JoanArc]

My take on the Love Locks, do you have any idea how many locks it would take to make up the weight of just one car. And how many cars pass over a bridge at one time. It seems to me if the locks were a problem the government would cut them off. In the past year I've seen five TV shows with people putting locks on bridges in France, I think it's just the media make something out of nothing as usually. When it comes to the Duggars instead of snarking on them that we choose to bitch them down instead.

Jessa, is that you?

 

 

Or, maybe just dump our positive pregnancy tests onto their front yard in celebration of our pregnancies? :)

 

Yessss. Pollution and overpopulation are just lies!

Edited April 24, 2015 by JoanArc

[woodscommaelle]

I've never heard of the love locks until a few seasons ago on The Bachelorette with Andi.  Sometimes on the first episode during the initial meeting, a gift is given to the Bachelor/Bachelorette.  One guy gave Andi a lock (after telling her about the tradition in Paris) and they put it on one of the gates on the 'set' and tossed the key into the pond.  Wonder if Ben got his idea from watching ;)

 

When Ben gave Jessa the lock, he said 'it's engraved' or 'I engraved it.'  Something like that.  She said 'I knew you did.  I know your handwriting.' Well I would fucking hope you know the handwriting of your HUSBAND!  (sorry...this show makes me stabby ;(

Edited April 24, 2015 by woodscommaelle

[wanderwoman]

The Love Lock idea was inspired by a book published in 2006. Since Bin was probably not reading Adult Romance novels in '06, I'm going to guess he googled "Romantic things to do in Paris". Unfortunately, he stopped there and didn't bother to read anything else. Jesse remarked that he brought the lock from Arkansas and etched it himself, so it wasn't an impulse buy in Paris. Sadly, there are other, equally significant and romantic customs that are truly Parisian and wouldn't have been vandalism. Why TLC encourages or films such tacky displays of American ignorance abroad is beyond me?

Another issue I have with the tradition is tossing the keys in the river. One report cited the ecological impact the corrosive metal has had on the Seine and how the keys are occasionally being sucked up into props and ingested by wildlife. Nothing says romance like rusty water and choking animals, I guess.

Bin and Jessa, of course, aren't responsible for the origin of the act. But, ignorance isn't a defense. TLC broadcasting this ersatz custom is promoting the destruction of property and ecology. I predict we will, as a result of this episode, see locks start appearing on local landmarks and bridges with a surprising pace.

[hlemommy]

I think the love locks thing was sweet. I actually told my husband if we ever went I'd want to do that with him. Ben is such a sweet guy.

[Sew Sumi]

I have too much respect for other cultures and their historic landmarks to ever deface them, irregardless of how much I love my husband. 

[zenme]

It is a romantic notion, but my conscience would get the better of me.

[hlemommy]

After reading the forums I wouldn't do it but at the time of the show I thought it was sweet.

[Bella]

Hi, folks-

 

Discussion of the pros and cons of the love locks really belongs in the Small Talk thread unless what you're saying is directly related to this episode and Benessa. So please continue the discussion in there.

 

The discussion doesn't need to be as heated as it's been over the last few hours, btw.

 

Thanks!

[JennyMominFL]

After reading the forums I wouldn't do it but at the time of the show I thought it was sweet.

I'm sure Benessa were completely clueless about the issue. It's not like they read the paper much

[Temperance]

Watching the episode again and here are some more thoughts:

 

Boob has learned about real estate values since the show started. He's fixing up Ben and Jessa's house for resale value and equity.Maybe he even watches home and garden television.

 

Jessa seems to be finally receiving the affection she's been looking for all her life.

 

Ben and Jessa handled the kiss from the Italian chef much better her parents would have. 

 

Jessa talking about her cooking made me think about Ben and his ministry dreams. Jessa may want Ben to go into the ministry, because she'd get more opportunities to leave the house and other roles than housewife. Then the congregation would bring her meals when they have a new baby or a lot going on.

 

It really annoyed me that Jessa had to mention she was one of 19 to the Italian chef. Albeit in a more low key way than her parents would have, but still.

 

I'm surprised that they only see Jill about once a week. I'm happy for Joy she got to see Jill. 

 

Michelle didn't seem to be acting weird in general; just unusual for her in the thrift shop scene. 

 

Ok I've never been to Arkansas, so do they not have pigeons there? It seemed to me that they were acting like they've never seen pigeons. 

 

They were adorable at the thrift store. My favorite hat was the first one Jessa had on with the sunglasses.

 

I don't think Anna needed to bring the test into the bedroom.

 

I don't think Josh seemed particularly anything when Anna told him except tired. I thought he was very sweet talking and telling each one of their older kids. I find traveling exhausting and I think it would be exhausting being around his family. He seemed less than thrilled in the announcement, but it's hard to say what it is exactly is causing his seeming indifference. 

I think Josh  could be tired of the show and having to do announcements and come up with creative ways to break the news and keep things interesting. I also wonder if he feels his parents take him for granted or something along those lines.

 

I didn't like Jim Bob's asking Ben and Jessa if they brought him another grandchild and Michelle's line about being the multiplication times is just scary, but I liked their joke about Jim-Bob being pregnant. Not haha funny, but humble and silly and acknowledging an imperfection, so there was that. 

Edited April 25, 2015 by Temperance

[ginger90]

I just got to watch this episode. I skipped a few parts, I have to admit. I think Ben and Jessa compliment each other very well. They are young but in many ways they seemed more in tune with each other than Jill and Derrick.

[Almost 3000]

I actually cheered when that happened....one less framed Duggar photo on the wall of a Duggar home. All their decor is either photos of themselves or inspirational quotes. Is there ever anything else?  And what is the bit (It may be a new trend. I don't honestly know.) of framing up a gigantic wedding-day picture of the homeowners themselves, and having many more around the house. Are walls the new Facebook? Don't they live there and can't they look at each other in person every single day? That's what wedding ALBUMS are for. geez.

 

Mullet looked pretty happy in that store and I can relate. That thrift shop looked awesome.

 

Don't get me started on those stupid locks. The bridge is going to fall in and/or be destroyed and the keys are ruining/polluting/filling the river.  I hope they pry them all off and melt down the metal and build a statue of Narcissus.

The wall quotes, sayings and family photos décor is a Gothard thing. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere and it makes sense with that in mind to be surrounded with a family focus.

[SomePity1066]

It really annoyed me that Jessa had to mention she was one of 19 to the Italian chef. Albeit in a more low key way than her parents would have, but still.

 

 

 

Temperance - totally agree, but have to admit, and grudgingly so, that it was really the only cringe-worthy moment for me, and I'm always looking for those like a hawk ! If that had been JB and Michelle there would have been the obligatory line-up with JB pointing and smirking, as if to indicate "Looky ! I've had sex AT LEAST this many times...!" and Michelle doing her breathy, little girl, Duggar Vader voice explaining how she gave birth to them all, blah, blah, whatever, etc.  

 

I'm not a Duggar fan - much the opposite, in fact - but there was relatively little for me to snark on with Jessa and Ben. But the freshly-tasered Michelle dervishing around the thrift shop ? That's another story entirely...

[roamyn]

I was actually. ...impressed isn't quite the word I'm looking for... with Ben for the mos part.

Unlike JB would or Jessa, he at least tried the escargot - which by the way are delicious - trying to be a good tourist. He also tried ti properly pronounce names of landmarks & hotels.

And when did they put glass in the bottom of the 1st level of the Tower? To me, that's just as destructive as the Love Locks. You take a historic building and alter it. And as someone with fear of heights, I felt for Ben when Jessa kept pushing him on -both physically & psychologically.

But guys? YOU ARE IN ITALY. WHAT DID U EXPECT THE SIGNS THERE TO BE? This was one area I thought they were adding to the idea of the narcissistic American tourist.

[LeighAnne]

I'm confident TLC planned and paid for the entire trip. No way in hell was Boob shelling out for a European honeymoon, and Ben would have had to scrub a lot of toilets to even pay for parking at the airport.

 

I agree; TLC had to have paid for the entire honeymoon, because if Boob was willing to spend a ton of money for a honeymoon, Princess Jill would have gone to Europe.  But apparently Derick wanted --- what a nutty idea! --- a honeymoon with no cameras following him and his wife around, which is why they were in North Carolina, and Ben and Jessa went all over Europe.

 

Having seen the episode, I seriously think TLC should have sent Ben and Jessa to Disneyworld for their honeymoon.  They probably would have appreciated it more.

[GEML]

Gothard didn't allow art on the wall only photographs and words.

[Vaysh]

Why no art? It can't be because of the no graven images thing if they put up photographs of family. Is it all art or just the modern abstract kind? Or is it no landscapes, no animals, no poor child with a single, lonely tear sliding down its cheek as well? What about religious art? (And hah! Jessa put up Bin's horse paintings, take that Gothard! ;)

 

The more I think about it the weirder this cult appears. What kind of people allow one man to dictate every single aspect of their lives, including the decorations they put up on their walls?

[Quof]

I actually watched about 20 minutes of this, because I wanted to see the European cities. I couldn't take any more to the giggling, inarticulate fawning.  It's like chaperoning a junior high dance.

[Mrsjumbo]

I guess they will not be visiting the Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art in Bentonville.

[msblossom]

The more I think about it the weirder this cult appears. What kind of people allow one man to dictate every single aspect of their lives, including the decorations they put up on their walls?

Rigid, fearful people who are afraid to color outside the lines bc somewhere in their lives they believed that God was ready to crush them and ground them into fine dust unless they adhered perfectly to each of the 10 commandments and man-made laws of religion.

[Chalby]

-Why do they need to show Josie having a seizure on national television. Is nothing off limits to these people.

But did you catch Michelle's blasé delivery of the news? Jana was far more upset than Michelle. 

[nccueagle84]

Just had a couple thoughts to add that I don't think anyone has said:

#1 I'm secretly hoping that with as long as they stayed in hotels that they turned on the tv & ordered some adult pay-per-view. Not expecting them to be porn addicts but curious enough to take a peak!

#2 Wth happened to Bin's little red pickup that he said he couldn't wait until they had no chaperones so there would be more room? Does the black suv belong to Jessa or did they get an "upgrade" once married?

[GEML]

Gothard prides himself on being a sort of neo-Orthodox Jewish person. Thus you have a lot of pseudo rules that are often based on the highly structured rules followed by Orthodox Jews. Thus dressing patterns, no pictures, no pork, menstruation issues, sex rules after birth or boy/girl, etc.

[LeighAnne]

Why do they need to show Josie having a seizure on national television. Is nothing off limits to these people.

But did you catch Michelle's blasé delivery of the news? Jana was far more upset than Michelle.

 

Given that Jana, not Michelle, is the one actually doing most of the work raising Josie, I'm not surprised.

Edited April 26, 2015 by LeighAnne

[ginger90]

In the preview, while Josie is having the seizure, there's someone (in stripes I believe) off to the right of the frame. Next, all you see is a stool, and then you can see a bit of the person again. Does anyone know who that was?

[allonsyalice]

It looked like Mary to me, but I can't be 100% sure. 

[flyingdi]

The SUV May have belonged to Jessa. I recall Jim Bob saying "The girls get cars, the boys get jobs." In an episode.

[JoanArc]

There is a picture up - by the piano, that Amy's dad painted. It's of a figure playing the piano, but its made up of words, so it must skirt the rules just enough to be ok.

[lottiedottie]

I have such mixed feelings about these two. I hate what they stand for--but as a couple, I think they genuinely dig each other. Ben seems very interested in making Jessa happy, and I love a young guy who is a romantic. (even if some of it is producer-driven). If he weren't a fundamentalist nut job, I'd find him charming and cute. 

[parisprincess]

I wanted to reach through the TV screen and strangle JimBob when, talking about the French chef kissing the kids on both cheeks, said "We don't do that in Arkansas."  No, moron, you don't do that in your family; stop talking like the whole state is as ignorant as you are!

 

I enjoyed seeing Ben get so much pleasure out of the whole European experience.  He admired the architecture, knew the landmarks they were seeing, and made an attempt to speak the language.  Jessa, on the other hand, didn't come across as having much knowledge or as much enthusiasm as Ben, and her constant giggling at everything he said was grating on my nerves.  I wonder how much longer the two of them are going to be in awe of the fact that they are MARRIED!

[NikSac]

The wall quotes, sayings and family photos décor is a Gothard thing. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere and it makes sense with that in mind to be surrounded with a family focus.

 

Really?  I've known quite a few completely non-religious people who do this as well. Maybe the background idea (family focus) is the same but they're not Gothard, for sure.

[Almost 3000]

Really?  I've known quite a few completely non-religious people who do this as well. Maybe the background idea (family focus) is the same but they're not Gothard, for sure.

Sorry, didn't mean other people didn't or can't do it too but another poster asked and I was just politely answering their question and in this case it is at the direction of Gothard.

[Skittl1321]

That's not a real legit job. The Kardashians as much as I hate them are a brand. They're making their money not doing shit. What does Ben do? Or jessa? They don't bring in millions a year or a decent income.

No, they don't bring in millions- but I would guess that between speaking engagements, selling stories to People, book royalties, and TLC they certainly bring in a decent income.  The median income in an Arkansas household is $40k.  They surely clear way more than that. Not enough for fancy European vacations in hotels that cost 1000 euro a night; but if they can get that comped, more power to them.

[Micks Picks]

Ha, when I was in Europe I didn't even stay in hotels a lot of the time.  Airfare from the west coast is expensive, and the trip is much too long and boring.  I sometimes spent the night in a train station where I enjoyed the most beautiful  flute playing ever.  I'll never forget it.  But I saw everything.  Ate very little.  And have a reputation of only going when the exchange rate is the worst in years.

[Skittl1321]

The wall quotes, sayings and family photos décor is a Gothard thing. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere and it makes sense with that in mind to be surrounded with a family focus.

I think it is more of a small town USA thing (I should note that my "small town" metropolitan area is about 200,000 - so it isn't that small; though that is 3 "big" cities and a ton of small ones).

 

90% of the houses in my neighborhood have wall quotes and family photo walls.  Only about 15% are particularly religious, and none are Gothard.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Skittl1321

[GEML]

I have lots of quotes in my own walks, and it's been a very long time since I lived in small town America. Of course, I'm a writer, so I've put words on the wall since before it was trendy. I also hang up art, too.

[Almost 3000]

I think it is more of a small town USA thing (I should note that my "small town" metropolitan area is about 200,000 - so it isn't that small; though that is 3 "big" cities and a ton of small ones).

 

90% of the houses in my neighborhood have wall quotes and family photo walls.  Only about 15% are particularly religious, and none are Gothard.

Once again I was just answering someone's question and I realize many people do this too but Gothard does like the home to be decorated this way. It just so happens that his desires fall in line with a popular decorating style.