S10.E15: European Honeymoon

[bigskygirl]

UGH!!!  Where do I begin!!!

 

-Yes Ben, being married is different from dating.

 

-Do Ben and Jessa know more words than cool and awesome.

 

-What is with the freakin' kissing.

 

-Michelle aka Mrs. Robinson is enjoying hugging Benjermin a little too much. Derick dodge a bullet with her.

 

-Can Princess Jill be any more smug.

 

-Italian wording/language at an Italian train station. Who would have thought.

 

-I bet people really do kiss family and friends in Arkansas Jim Bob.

 

-Paris, Rome, and Venice are different from Arkansas. Thanks for the world history lesson Jessa and Ben.

 

-Have to remind people about having eighteen siblings. You are so blessed, awesome, special, cool, amazing Jessa.

 

-Josh is not happy about blessing/investment number four. And yes Josh, people can have four kids without their families around. It is done on a daily basis.

 

-Marcus is not having a baby, he is getting a new sibling Josh.

 

-No pictures of Benjermin's family in the new house. Why am I not surprise.

 

-Jill is so special because the family spent more time furnishing and decorating her new house, Anna using one of her pregnancy test, and telling Derick Anna was pregnant before Josh knew.

 

-Why do they need to show Josie having a seizure on national television. Is nothing off limits to these people.

[Temperance]

Jessa and Ben's honeymoon takes them to Paris, Rome and Venice—without their chaperones.

 

[Madison Bumgarner]

Hey, at least they fixed up the house for them. It was trash when they were first looking at it. It was pretty once they finished up. Must be nice to just fix up anything whenever the hell you want. No money necessary!

[cereality]

Besides the obvious issues that have been repeated so many times re how young, unexposed etc they are -- they do seem in love and comfortable with each other. Ben seemed genuinely excited about Europe and seemed like he wanted to take in the sights. I kept waiting for one of them to say -- how would you feel about living here for a year or two?! Though I guess they weren't THAT thrilled with it.

[Temperance]

I wish we got to Ma and pa Duggar's the reaction to them not doing a first kiss at the ceremony.

I wonder if the internet is the main reason they're fixing the mold. 

Jessa you don't have 9 sisters, you have 8. Your parents' 9 daughters  include you. 

I love Jessa's outfit in Paris at the restaurant. 

I have never seen Michelle as excited as she was at the thrift store.

 

Jill: "If you're in a Duggar home, you're probably not far from a box of pregnancy tests." 

I won't say anything about it, because that sounds like internet bait if ever I heard it.

[GEML]

Poor Josh. He looked pretty miserable.

[Lillybee]

I didn't see any other people at the Eiffel Tower. I hope that TLC didn't close if off just for Bin and Jessa.  It looked like they flew first class. I wonder who paid for this fancy honeymoon. BTW, JB, how will you keep them down at the farm after they have seen Paree?

[Hpmec]

There are countless people with an appreciation for history, beauty, and culture who would love the opportunity to explore Paris, Rome, and Venice. I admittedly saw only a few minutes of this episode (Paris and the very beginning of Rome and the last few minutes), but I suspect it would be impossible to find two people who knew or cared less about what they were seeing. The production company must have received special permission to film in the Eiffel Tower(which Ben seemed to recognize, Jessa not so much) early in the morning before opening. What a privilege for Benessa to have it all to themselves - unfortunately, completely lost on a couple of rubes.

I assume the homecoming was staged. Not one Duggar thought to ask anything about the trip. Yes, the focus was on the house, but you'd think someone in that crowd would say, "How was Europe?"

Josh is truly over having kids. It's evident he would have been happy with 3 and was less than thrilled by the pregnancy announcement. After this one he'll probably be googling "vasectomy." Who buys boxes (emphasis on plural) of pregnancy tests? I picture Jill's bathroom cupboards stuffed with hundreds. As my mom would say, "Bunch of whack-o's."

Edited April 22, 2015 by Hpmec

[Micks Picks]

I had the show on but didn't see the expression because I had my door open and 3 dogs came in and one was purposing to raise his leg on something. My dog is unbelievably nice and just lets them come in with no problem. Anyway, I imagine Josh may have looked like he did in the pregnancy announcement, probably filmed the same day. He looked horrible and defeated. Well he will just have to take "matters" into his own "hands" to avoid the problem in the future.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Micks Picks

[andromeda331]

Don't they still have to go to the doctor after taking the pregnancy test in case it was a false positive? Oh, probably not. That doesn't happen to the Duggars. It was nice to see Ben and Jessa excited during their trip to Europe. It would be nice if they knew more about the stuff they saw but there's probably a lot of people who go there and the buildings and history of the places their at doesn't mean anything to them.

 

Loved Josh's reaction baby number four. Wow, he couldn't even fake excitement for the camera.

I hoped Ben and Jessa picked out a lot of that stuff the Duggars were moving into the house because its just weird to go and buy stuff for someone else's house. And I thought the same thing about arranging it. They even mention that Jessa might not even like where they were putting stuff. Then why not leave it for Jessa and Ben to set up their own home and pick out things they like?

 

I was surprised by how excited Michelle was to be in that store.

But later when Michelle had a broom in her hand, I wonder if I was being cold in thinking she must have heard the Bates' show got renewed for a second season.

Talking how much the love when their grandbabies visit sure Grandparents love when their grandchildren visit and then ignore them the entire visit.

Jessa's news...I guess I shouldn't be surprised but I am.  

I was more surprised by Ben talking about going to community college. I so hope he continues and finishes.

[what]

Michelle being giddy at the thrift store was the most interesting thing in this episode. Mainly because I like to think she had just knocked back a few drinks followed by a pill chaser.

Edited April 22, 2015 by what

[Literata]

I actually found myself a little surprised at Dashing Binjermin Seewald's reaction to the honeymoon trip. Boyfriend actually showed a little intellectual curiosity -- granted, a LITTLE, but we'll take it.

Guinn obviously is a bit more adept at teaching kids more than bankruptcy law; Bin recognized and knew how to pronounce the names of a few landmarks.

Jessa Blessa didn't even try, but, hey, she does look cute in hats.

[BitterApple]

Wow, could Josh have been any less excited about the pregnancy announcement? "You're pregnant? So....exciting....yay....." It's sad because Josh is loving and affectionate towards the kids he has and I'm sure he'll be no different with this child, but it's so painfully obvious he doesn't want a massive family. I wish Anna would get a clue.

[TheDoctorsCompanio]

They need to talk. That's the problem.

[Sew Sumi]

I didn't see any other people at the Eiffel Tower. I hope that TLC didn't close if off just for Bin and Jessa.  It looked like they flew first class. I wonder who paid for this fancy honeymoon. BTW, JB, how will you keep them down at the farm after they have seen Paree?

Train station in Rome was also pretty empty, as was the Pigeon Piazza in Venice. And the hat store...the only place that seemed "normal" was the Parisian restaurant. TLC cleared out a LOT of space for these kooky kids. This was NOT paid for by the Seewalds. They got a freebie and possibly an additional paycheck from this deal. 

 

I also am curious if they got a real, honest-to-goodness mold abatement crew to remodel the house. And no, Mechelle. The mold didn't just appear when the place was vacant. Smuggar already admitted to mold when they lived there, and we know the renters in the interim complained of it.

 

eta: So, Ben's not going to transfer to the University of Arkansas after all. Probably because he really hasn't finished community college, despite his claims in this episode that he was "almost done." That could mean a semester still to go after last fall. But now, he's just going straight into the "ministry?" Good luck with that, kid. We've seen your "ministry" online, and if you treat people like you do there, you won't get any converts. 

Edited April 22, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Spencer Hastings]

Ben is a freaking gentleman.  I would have pushed that b--ch over if she'd tried to "lead" me to the glass floor that way.  I hate heights and when you touch me while I'm high up, I'm liable to fight!

[woodscommaelle]

You forgot your 'language helpful booklet', Ben? Oh my god.

This show needs to be cancelled bc I don't have the willpower to stop watching even though I can't fucking stand this family. Michelle mostly. What was the item she was hiding from Joy at the thrift store?

Edited April 22, 2015 by woodscommaelle

[BitterApple]

I don't think Bin has any clue as to how hard it is to lead a ministry. Public speaking is an art. If Bin were to preach in a church he'd have to do extensive research and writing in order to prepare weekly sermons. He can only pimp out his anti-abortion message for so long before people lose interest.

[Lillybee]

Someone, i would guess, spared no expense on the honeymoon. The rooms at the hotel they stayed at in Venice, the Canal Grande start at 1375 Euros per night.

 

http://www.amanresorts.com/amancanalgrandevenice/home.aspx

Edited April 22, 2015 by Lillybee

[Hpmec]

Bin has no public speaking skills. Hell, he can barely finish a sentence. There is zero chance that he would be able to launch a successful ministry. He'd better not quit his day job. Those toilets are a sure thing.

TLC invested big in that honeymoon. They should have saved their money and sent the kids to EPCOT. Jessa wouldn't have known the difference.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Hpmec

[cereality]

Honestly if they did get to stay in hotels with $1400/night rooms and go to the Eiffel Tower before it opened and all that other stuff -- I'm happy for Ben and his parents by extension. I mean he is a kid from rural(ish) Arkansas, and I'm sure he never in his wildest dreams thought he'd ever go to Paris, see the Eiffel Tower or Champs Elysee, ride a gondola, let alone experience it in such luxury. I mean he's never been on a train before (which I thought was weird but then I remembered I lived in NYC -- subways everywhere and the Amtrak corridor to Boston and DC); the middle of the country doesn't have that. I mean I'm sure Mike and Guinn do the best they can to provide, but at the end of the day -- I doubt a family vacation to Europe is realistic; but I'm sure they're glad their son got to experience it for a few days bc of TLC.

 

Let's face it -- the rest of their lives won't be easy. He'll be working for the Duggars -- cleaning toilets or whatever tasks JB invents for his sons in law to do; either way he'll be relying on JB for money and JB will hold it over him for the rest of his life. Then there will be the blessings that come every few years. Sure babies are all cute and it's great to compete with your sister in law to have one ASAP -- until you realize in a few yrs that you are Josh -- you didn't live at all in your 20s and by your mid 20s, your life resembles that of a 45 yr old man. It's nice that for a few days -- they got to be newlyweds experiencing luxury on TLC's tab without JB or 800 siblings in tow.

You can tell that now that he's given 3 couples homes -- the rest of the older/middle kids expect it. Whoever was interviewing with Josiah -- Jason maybe -- a teen said "well we can't expect to all get starter homes BUT my dad IS in real estate." And Josiah threw in something like "fingers crossed, I'm 8th" which I took to mean he's the 8th in line - though I guess he's more like 4th in line since you get homes by courtship order. It's very clear that want to court/marry/get out, but don't necessarily have plans on how to provide bc while they may say they don't EXPECT a home -- in their heart of hearts, they really do expect JB to come up with a home or at least some kind of residential plan. Disgusting. If you're old enough and  mature enough to marry, you and your beloved should be mature enough to figure out how to make the rent or the mortgage on some kind of starter residence.

[Spencer Hastings]

Can we start doing a Binchelle hug count?  She grabs herself an armful of side hug (or two) whenever he's nearby.  

 

Jill's comments about not decorating Jessa's whole house made me snicker a little.  I bet she didn't like having her entire house done for her, which is why she wanted to leave some for Jessa to do.

 

Josh looked like he was contemplating jumping from that window when Anna woke him up with that news.  Also, who does that?  Who wakes someone up and sticks a pee stick in their face?  And lets their kid grab and play with it?

[WalrusGirl]

I didn't see any other people at the Eiffel Tower. I hope that TLC didn't close if off just for Bin and Jessa. It looked like they flew first class. I wonder who paid for this fancy honeymoon. BTW, JB, how will you keep them down at the farm after they have seen Paree?

I was thinking they must have. Been there, and can't think of any time of day it would be so empty, let alone not seeing anyone. It's so crowded that they really had to close it off with a filming permit to effectively film there (whether they just paid to close it/receive off-hours access or did both I don't know; no idea how that works); tourists would have crowded between the cameras and Ben & Jessa, nevermind the impossibility of getting signed releases for all the tourists in the frame or blurring everyone out.

Just checked, and the Eiffel Tower is open from 9:30 am until 11 pm in November, so from the lighting they probably filmed before normal hours rather than actually taking hours from the public. It would have been impossible for TLC to get their footage while it was open to the public, so I really have no qualms, though I'm insanely jealous!

Edited April 22, 2015 by WalrusGirl

[Apple Clark]

This is a bit off topic, but all I could think when they went to the cooking lesson and the chef kissed them on the cheek is, "There was more affection in that greeting then there was for their entire courtship."

Can we start doing a Binchelle hug count?  She grabs herself an armful of side hug (or two) whenever he's nearby.  

 

Jill's comments about not decorating Jessa's whole house made me snicker a little.  I bet she didn't like having her entire house done for her, which is why she wanted to leave some for Jessa to do.

 

Josh looked like he was contemplating jumping from that window when Anna woke him up with that news.  Also, who does that?  Who wakes someone up and sticks a pee stick in their face?  And lets their kid grab and play with it?

I took a test at 5:00am because I was freaked out and screamed bloody murder when it read positive and woke my fiancé. He was scared and kept asking what was wrong so I threw it at him. Does that count?

[Spencer Hastings]

This is a bit off topic, but all I could think when they went to the cooking lesson and the chef kissed them on the cheek is, "There was more affection in that greeting then there was for their entire courtship."

I took a test at 5:00am because I was freaked out and screamed bloody murder when it read positive and woke my fiancé. He was scared and kept asking what was wrong so I threw it at him. Does that count?

Only if you videotaped it and used your best keep sweet voice!

[Wellfleet]

I didn't see any other people at the Eiffel Tower. I hope that TLC didn't close if off just for Bin and Jessa.  It looked like they flew first class. I wonder who paid for this fancy honeymoon. BTW, JB, how will you keep them down at the farm after they have seen Paree?

 

Dec-Feb is the slowest tourist time for Paris and obviously November leads into that. Not a touristy month in Paris at all - great time to go. The weather can still be fairly decent but there aren't any crowds and the hotels have made significant cuts from peak Summer rates. Doubt that TLC did much clearing of any sites they filmed - or could have if they wanted to. These are, after all, the French. I doubt they paid any attention to Ben and Jessa.

[kalamac]

I actually don't have much sympathy for Josh at this point. He's a grown man, he knows what causes pregnancy and unless Anna's having sex with him while he's unconscious, all he has to do is say no, if he can't bring himself to start using birth control. 

[Darknight]

Wow, could Josh have been any less excited about the pregnancy announcement? "You're pregnant? So....exciting....yay....." It's sad because Josh is loving and affectionate towards the kids he has and I'm sure he'll be no different with this child, but it's so painfully obvious he doesn't want a massive family. I wish Anna would get a clue.

We ml Joshie boy needs to man up an tell her no more babies. Or get a snip, wear a condom, or use his hand

[dillpickles]

We ml Joshie boy needs to man up an tell her no more babies. Or get a snip, wear a condom, or use his hand

I read hand as head, had a good laugh there.

Tellin' a Duggar woman "no" to a baby seems like a death wish though.

[andromeda331]

When they were being kissed Ben said in Arkansas they only side hug. Ah, Ben, I think that's only the Duggars I'm sure their are plenty of people your state that hug, kiss and "gasp" don't have to have chaperones.

[NEGirl]

If Josh does not want any more kids, which we can tell he doesn't, then he needs to do something about it. Go get fixed, have a long talk with Anna - something or he will be sitting there with 10 kids before he knows it. I can't believe the kids played with the pee stick-gross. I was happy to hear Ben is at least  finishing county college. Hopefully he continues and gets some kind of degree so he does not end up scrubbing toilets the rest of his life.

Ben seemed to enjoy the European experience more than Jessa. He seemed interested in everything. Jessa, not so much.   If TLC showed one more shot of them kissing....

[Fuzzysox]

Did MEChelle give them an eviction notice before they even moved in by saying that the house was a good starter home for the first year then they can move to a bigger house? I read it as get out fast Jessa gotta make way for Mariah so they can start giving me more precious grandchildren to get the ratings up.

 

I really liked this episode. 

[sigmaforce86]

I actually found myself a little surprised at Dashing Binjermin Seewald's reaction to the honeymoon trip. Boyfriend actually showed a little intellectual curiosity -- granted, a LITTLE, but we'll take it.

 

And I'll give him points for at least trying a few words in the local languages, even if it was just please and thank you at least he did it and he tried (especially since even non-fundies fall into the "everyone should speak english" trap when traveling).

 

When I went to Notre Dame I cried - it just sort of happened after already being awed by the outside when I saw the inside and started to walk around, the architecture the stained glass; it was suddenly really overwhelming.  I'd like to hope that off camera Jessa had a little more of a reaction than "cool"

 

Biggest clue that the homecoming was staged was Jessa and Ben had no luggage, not even a purse when they got out of the car.  No matter how tired you are after a vacation you immediately drag at least one suitcase in with you to get the unpacking over with.  

 

As usual Jim Bob was the grossest person on my screen.  I'm sure that contractor was just thrilled at having a gaggle of untrained kids to "teach" his skills to.....................in other words if you show us how to do this next time we won't have to hire you and save the difference.    And the minute Jessa and Ben get home he just has to bring up pregnancy - he really has an unhealthy interest in his kids sex lives; like stalker pervert level of unhealthy. 

[BitterApple]

It seemed like Bin made an honest effort to absorb as much culture as he could. Jessa could have cared less. I will give them props for not doing Boob's ugly American routine. I was just waiting for Bin to walk into that Parisian restaurant shouting "hola amigos!!!" as the other diners cringed into their escargot.

[NJRach]

I was at the Eiffel Tower at the same time a few years ago. It may have been the slow season, but it was crowded. There was a long line to get in, the elevators were packed, people were standing all along the rails looking at the view. So I am sure TLC must have had a pre-hours filming permit.

 

I felt like I was watching two students on a high school field trip, rather than a pair of honeymooners. Seriously, are we to believe they could have pulled this off themselves? They have no jobs - so they probably don't even have credit cards. How would they have paid for the hotel or their plane tickets?  I doubt they could have moved around from country to country like that, unless Mr Jim and his crew were there to facilitate and lead the way.

 

When Jessa laughed and pushed Bin across the glass floor of the Eiffel Tower, I had a flashback to Josh taunting Anna on the ferris wheel. Making fun of someone's fears must be common in the Duggar household. Later, when Jessa admitted she didn't like the rocking of the gondola, I was sooooo hoping Bin would laugh at her, and make the boat rock.

 

Michelle acting giddy in the thrift shop - omg. She looked like a crazy old lady on the lam from a nursing home. Completing the picture were the weird clunky black shoes, shaped like Dutch wooden clogs. The expression on her face was so over the top for thrift store shopping. I mean she was looking at freaking scratched up picture frames, then her eyes got all crazy and she ran up and down the aisles like a three year old.

 

Jessa and Bin's house - remodeling anything costs a fortune. When I saw the new kitchen, stone fireplace, refinished wood floors, new paint and the mold remediation service, I figured Boob must have spent 20-30K. Now why is it ok to dump all that money into your daughter's house, but not into an education? That could have paid for Jessa getting a 4 year degree if she lived at home. 

[GEML]

I'm not as convinced by the "TLC comped everything" argument. Paris and Venice are pretty quiet in mid November, and Ben and Jessa likely had to get up pretty early to do filming before Europeans were out and about. We never saw them in their actual rooms, so we don't know where they stayed, but even 5 star luxury hotels have a few rooms you can get in expensively during low season.

I actually think one of the reasons for a November wedding was getting a European honeymoon at such reduced prices.

[BitterApple]

I think Michelle crushed a few too many happy pills into her morning coffee prior to heading to the thrift shop. The older girls seemed to know it, too. They had looks on their faces like they might have to break out the butterfly net at any time.

[IndianPaintbrush]

Ben gets props for trying escargot and not being a baby about it.  Jessa, not so much.  

 

It was pretty obvious these two had no real desire to go to Europe.  How could they?  They've been taught nothing about European history, art or politics.  I wonder if they actually went inside Notre Dame.

Edited April 22, 2015 by IndianPaintbrush

[luvbadtv]

  If TLC showed one more shot of them kissing....

Oddly kissing at that; A few of their kisses were long, but with lips closed so tightly, seemed very unnatural.

[JennyMominFL]

Train station in Rome was also pretty empty, as was the Pigeon Piazza in Venice. And the hat store...the only place that seemed "normal" was the Parisian restaurant. TLC cleared out a LOT of space for these kooky kids. This was NOT paid for by the Seewalds. They got a freebie and possibly an additional paycheck from this deal. 

 

I a

I left from that train station(termini) early in the morning. The actual train station was pretty full, but that looked like where the trains actually were. Not as crowded there as most people board slowly.  Pigeon Piazza, Piazza San Marco is usually pretty busy, but they were standing sort of on the far end. That was the Doges palace  in front of them. I got to do an insiders tour and saw Casanova's cell.  Never saw piegeons like that though. Those were weird. I have a feeling they did some filming early in the morning in order to get these places empty. 

 

I didn't cry when I saw Notre Dame, for me it was when I rounded a corner in Rome and there was the Colusseum. It was just so amazing to be there.

Edited April 22, 2015 by JennyMominFL

[3girlsforus]

Don't they still have to go to the doctor after taking the pregnancy test in case it was a false positive? Oh, probably not. That doesn't happen to the Duggars. 

 

Not necessarily. Even if she was going to see an OB it's likely without an existing high risk situation they wouldn't make an appointment for her until toward the end of her first trimester anyway. 

[Cherrio]

You forgot your 'language helpful booklet', Ben? Oh my god.

This show needs to be cancelled bc I don't have the willpower to stop watching even though I can't fucking stand this family. Michelle mostly. What was the item she was hiding from Joy at the thrift store?

A vibrator?

[chunky junky]

Kids playing with used pee sticks Yuck.I guess its a requirement that they know what those are before the age of 5.I wonder if they save up all the used ones and let the kids build little houses with them like we did with popsickle sticks?That and the thrift store excitement overload are really the only things that set my teeth on edge.Quite noticeable was that Ben was a decent human being.Polite, kind and very patient with his stuck like glue other half.Did I really hear the word articulate out of someones mouth when describing Ben?I guess I should be happy that a Duggar would know that word.I wonder if they know what it means?

[MelineB13]

 

Who buys boxes (emphasis on plural) of pregnancy tests?

Raises hand.  They are cheaper that way and if you are thinking you may need to take more than 3, why wouldn't you buy in bulk?  My sister actually bought a case of pg tests and opks when she decided to get pregnant and got pregnant in the first month so she gifted them all unopened to me.  So I had a pretty hefty supply for a while.  Jill got pregnant so fast, I can believe that she has leftovers.  They don't go bad, so why not.  

 

I actually enjoyed seeing Bin's European Vacation.  He seemed truly impressed with so much of it.  And at one point he was talking to Jessa while they were on the water taxi in Venice and you could see her barely listening to him because she was taking in the sights.  He was actually quite sweet/borderline eloquent with the bridge lock.  In most of his talking heads he seems so congested so I almost wonder if they did all the interviewing in the same week and he had a head cold or something.  

 

Also, I LOVED Jessa's hair in that bun.  It looked so relaxed and really showed off her pretty features.  

 

ETA: 

 

Kids playing with used pee sticks Yuck.

Ewww I know! It didn't even have the little cap on it.  That was the straight up soaked in urine part of the stick.  Even though Jill tried to say that she filmed Anna telling Josh, I think that was staged.  My thought is that Josh does indeed want this 4th blessing but he's really bad at having the fake conversations about it and his apathy is actually towards reenacting the actual moments.  He's always been a bit sarcastic with the faux put upon rolling of the eyes.  

Edited April 22, 2015 by MelineB13

[JennyMominFL]

Yeah, so that water Taxi. We went from the train station to a hotel 2 stops away. It was 60 Euro or 80 dollars.. I'll never do that again. She went many more stops in. They probably paid like $120 for that water taxi.

[GEML]

I think Josh would be fine with number 4 - in about two years. I think he's really tired.

[JenCarroll]

Jessa Lauren! Look at you with the above-the-knee skirts! OK, so you were wearing heavy tights with them, but still, two different skirts that were above your knees. Guess your Headship likes to see your legs. Amazing to look at how she dresses now (better and better) compared to those sacks with the huge goofy collars from the old days.

I found the episode a lot more enjoyable than I'd expected. I've certainly seen Americans in Europe who were much less clued in, and much less appreciative, than these two. I thought they handled themselves reasonably well. Feeding the pigeons is just a stupid idea, but I'm sure they learned their lesson, lol. It was nice how Ben had looked up the love bridge and prepared his big romantic gesture ahead of time, and I'm glad to see Jessa becoming more gracious (and maybe even a little bit pleased) about his efforts.

Yeah, Josh is either not excited about M4, or he seriously dislikes being woken up on camera, or both.

Michelle literally running around the thrift shop was so _strange_. She seemed even more 'off' than usual. It's kind of disturbing.

[BitterApple]

I think Josh would be fine with number 4 - in about two years. I think he's really tired.

He looked exhausted in last night's episode. I'm not sure what the deal is with his health but it seems to be going beyond just carrying a few extra pounds. He's 26 and looks 46.

[msblossom]

Michelle comes off like a hoarder in the thrift store. Oy vey.

Jessa brags about how couples push each other into trying new experiences, yet she won't try the escargot, but she'll push Ben out on the glass floor of the Eiffel Tower. I am afraid of heights too, yet I'll hike and I've zip lined once, but if someone pushes me out on a glass floor like she did with Ben, I'll cut a bitch. That's not cool.

[yogi2014L]

I hope Josh mans up and this is the last baby. I think he is really resentful of his upbringing. He seems to deeply care for his children so maybe his love for them will override the Gothard crap he grew up with. 

Josh, there is no need to live like you grew up. If you stop now your children can be educated and become lawyers! Give them what you were denied!