S01.E02: Entirely Beloved

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

 

As Cardinal Wolsey retreats north, he urges Cromwell to get close to Anne Boleyn to regain the King's favour.

 

[Primetimer]

Sure, Thomas Cromwell's an jerk, but is he currently the biggest jerk in the Tudor court?

Read the story

[blackwing]

Good gracious, this show is BORING. Nothing happens. Almost every scene consists solely of people just talking to each other. We need more scenes with the characters actually doing something, like the archery and the masque at the end making fun of the dead Wolsey.

I find the show just as plodding as I found the book. I had to quit the book after I was a third of the way in. Think I may have to do the same here. The only thing keeping me in it are the locales, the costumes and the music. And Damien Lewis, he makes a very convincing Henry and he is the best part of the show.

It doesn't help that the main character Cromwell is thoroughly uncharismatic and boring. Unfortunately, he's in every single scene!

[Starchild]

Yeah, I'm done. I've read several places where it helps to have a previous understanding of the historical events to find this interesting, but I don't, so...I don't.

[dr pepper]

For people who want their medieval England with more action, i recommend the novels of Jean Plaidy.

[M. Darcy]

Aw, a cute kitten.  Which somewhat makes up for the sadness of Wolsey dying (I love Jonathan Pryce so that was sad for me).

 

Heh, Cromwell and Gardner's conversation about if Gardner was having sex.  The expression's on the two Mark's faces cracked me up.

[HoodlumSheep]

I've been really trying to get into this, but I might have to give up. It's just too confusing for me :(. Without having read the book or knowing much about that particular bit of history, I just can't follow along very well.

Like this week, we got bombarded with 30 other guys named Thomas (okay, I exaggerated a bit).

All I got out of this weeks episode:

Henry had a bad dream.

Cromwell is now an official advisor.

The Cardinal died.

Cromwell's son returned.

Cromwell has started to move on with his sister-in-law???

Mary tried to put the moves on Cromwell, I think.

Some important people did some archery.

Something about some corrupt monks.

Did I miss anything?

Is Cromwell manipulating the kin for his own gain? Is he out for himself now that the Cardinal is dead?

The kitten was cute; did he keep it even after his son told him the dogs would kill it?

I don't like how Cromwell's moved on with that other lady, but I can't do anything about that.

I still want to punch Anne in the face.

I'm liking Damian lewis as Henry.

Is there any significance to that ring (besides it being a memento)? Or did i miss something?

I like the show, I'm just completely lost.

When's Cromwell gonna do or say something that puts the jerky rich dudes in their place?

[Calamity Jane]

Good gracious, this show is BORING. Nothing happens. Almost every scene consists solely of people just talking to each other. We need more scenes with the characters actually doing something, like the archery and the masque at the end making fun of the dead Wolsey.

I find the show just as plodding as I found the book. I had to quit the book after I was a third of the way in. Think I may have to do the same here. The only thing keeping me in it are the locales, the costumes and the music. And Damien Lewis, he makes a very convincing Henry and he is the best part of the show.

It doesn't help that the main character Cromwell is thoroughly uncharismatic and boring. Unfortunately, he's in every single scene!

And this is what I find a little hard to believe about their portrayal of Cromwell.  It beggars belief that a person from his background ascended as high as he did on mental acuity alone.  He must have had immense drive and persistence, and probably some measure of personal charisma, to make it into the king's inner circle.  This quiet, impassive character we see just seems all wrong.  

[kieyra]

Cat book spoiler:

 

Marlinspike survives!

Edited April 13, 2015 by kieyra

[turbogirlnyc]

Better than the first episode! Calamity Jane is so on point regarding the actor/portrayal of Cromwell. And it's not necessarily because I adored James Frain's portrayal on The Tudors. When I find myself repeatedly thinking "Rylance is just so wrong for this role" while I'm watching the show, it's bad. While I understand Mary Boleyn hitting on Cromwell in the book, it's almost beyond belief in the show.

I agree that Damian Lewis is believeable and good as Henry! Really enjoying his performance so far. Wolsey & Gardiner are superb as well.

I find this Thomas More "off" but it's most likely due to Jeremy Northam's sympathetic portrayal on The Tudors. I understood how JN's More could become a martyr. Mantel's version, not so much.

I thought this Jane Seymour looked more historically accurate than others. I've seen almost every movie/TV show about the Tudors. Netflix recently dropped their Henry VII (including Keith Mitchell as Henry in The Six Wives of Henry VIII) and Elizabeth I movies. Huge disappointment!

[kieyra]

Well, now I'm sad again. I'd been kind of hoping that I was being too nitpicky about Rylance and that the show would win lots of people over anyway. Now I'm back to 'how did this casting occur', and 'did anyone in casting read the books'. 

 

To return to one of the first things I ever said on the topic: I wonder what Hilary Mantel thinks of the casting, and how it matches up with the canonical book-Cromwell in her head. 

 

And finally: I wonder how they are casting the stage productions, and how those actors are playing the same material. 

 

http://wolfhallbroadway.com

 

EDIT: And here's Broadway's casting for Cromwell in the same material.

 

http://images.amcnetworks.com/bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/files/2015/04/612x344_benmiles_womaningold.jpg

Edited April 13, 2015 by kieyra

[MichelleAK]

I'm still enjoying it for the most part, but it's become more evident that Rylance was miscast.  When he tells George to not bother god about revenge, he'll handle it, I just didn't believe that he could.  He just seems too mopey (well, until after he banged his sister-in-law, and then he was a giddy teenager, which:  WTF?!).  However, I still like it enough to keep watching, and Claire Foy and Damien Lewis are drawing me in as Anne and Henry (although I'd like to see more interaction between them, although if I remember the book correctly, it was a bit further into the storyline before Cromwell was interacting with them both at the same time).

[Ohwell]

I tried to get into this show but Rylance will always be Anne Boleyn's father in the Tudors to me.  I just can't see him in this role without thinking about his other role.  Plus, this show is just boring.

[blackwing]

You mean "The Other Boleyn Girl". Nick Dunning was Thomas Boleyn in "The Tudors".

How successful was this show in the UK compared to, say, Downton Abbey? I wonder how the reception in the US has been after two weeks. This show seems far less accessible to the mainstream US audience than DA, which airs on the same night in the same time slot. This show probably would be received better if it was more like DA, which is basically a glorified soap opera in fancy period clothes and accents.

That might not be true to the book, but as far as I'm concerned, both the book and this show suck hairy donkey balls.

[LiveenLetLive]

Actually, I haven't read the books, but dayum if I didn't have some background in the History of the period I would be totally lost. I sort of like Rylance in the role--he underplays it true, but then the dry wit saves him I think. It is difficult to see T More as an old coot after Jeremy Northam--but I assume that it is more historically correct that the actor playing More, indeed Rylance, are older than the actors cast in "The Tudors," but yes, JN did seem more Innately "spirtual" than the actor playing him in WH.

[kieyra]

Actually, I haven't read the books, but dayum if I didn't have some background in the History of the period I would be totally lost. I sort of like Rylance in the role--he underplays it true, but then the dry wit saves him I think. It is difficult to see T More as an old coot after Jeremy Northam--but I assume that it is more historically correct that the actor playing More, indeed Rylance, are older than the actors cast in "The Tudors," but yes, JN did seem more Innately "spirtual" than the actor playing him in WH.

The book takes a very cynical view of More, with the idea that he's in the martyrdom gig because of pride and ego, not out of any higher calling or spirituality. That said, I didn't find the WH actor particularly engaging in that sense either.

[dr pepper]

There were an awful lot of Thomases in England at the time. According to one book i read, it had to do with the popularity of Thomas Beckett.

 

That Cromwell looks scarily like one of the pictures of the real one.

 

Henry, on the other hand, looks kind of scrawny. The real Henry was robust long before he became obese.

 

Oh, and i really enjoyed the scene in which Cromwell's wife tells him that a suspicious looking parcel has arrived and he says, "oh good, that must be the heretical Bible i ordered."

[Constantinople]

One risk of historical dramas is telling a story that doesn't bore viewers who already know the basics without confusing viewers who don't.  The producers solved this problem with a show that could be found equally tedious by both sets of viewers.  Good job?

 

As to characterization, Anne's charisma rivals that of a postage stamp and Cromwell looks as if he's perpetually constipated.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Constantinople

[sugarbaker design]

Unpopular opinion here, I'm enjoying this.  I've read the books, liked BUTB much more than WH.  I also love this period of history.  I couldn't get through two episodes of the Tudors so I don't have any of that baggage.  The only memorable Thomas More is Paul Scofield's annoying, totally unbelievable goody two shoes. I loved Mantel's More, especially his relationship with Alice, this is definitely not Paul Scofield and Wendy Hiller.  The best scene was Cromwell watching the actors playing the rats in the Wolsey scene, watching them take off their masks, noting who they were.  It's chilling.

[Notwisconsin]

The good stuff hasn't happened yet. Between the time Henry killed his father's chief advisors in 1510 and the founding of the C of E, not all that much happened. I don't like Anne sitting on a throne, though.

[attica]

I am loving the shit out of this show. I think Rylance is killing it, with his dour outlook, dry as dust humor, and calculated patience. The lighting is fucking gorgeous (holy shit, the scene where Johane is snuffing the candles one by one in TC's study, leaving only the firelight? Should be taught in every film school starting like yesterday), the costumes are luxe, and the political backbiting is hysterical in its obvious plausible-deniability. I even like the lack of a musical score under most scenes -- the quiet is ominous and heavy.

 

Every time H8 walks in with his legs apart and arms akimbo, I'm dead. Of course you kinda hafta stand that way when you're all ponced up in those enormous getups, I suppose.  And or course Lewis in his blood-orange hair looks great in that rich pumpkin orange tunic-thingy. Very kingly.

 

MARLINSPIKE! Yay!

[M. Darcy]

 

I am loving the shit out of this show. I think Rylance is killing it, with his dour outlook, dry as dust humor, and calculated patience.

I totally agree!   I hated The Tudors and am just loving this to death.   I saw Rylance in Twelfth Night and thought nothing could top that performance and was so wrong.  He is just mesmerizing me in this performance.  Especially when he doesn't say anything but you just watch his face.

 

And he was adorable with the kitten - especially with the Rowl! 

[kitmerlot1213]

The book takes a very cynical view of More, with the idea that he's in the martyrdom gig because of pride and ego, not out of any higher calling or spirituality. That said, I didn't find the WH actor particularly engaging in that sense either.

 

I know this is the author's prerogative but it feels like she’s running her own agenda in that if More is prideful egomaniac who is no more religious then Woolsey, then thank the Gods we have Thomas Cromwell to set everyone straight and save Henry and England from the backwards Catholics.

 

I think it’s closer to the truth that both Cromwell and More were well matched in intelligence and wit, in particular in regards to the law but that they were both firmly on opposite sides, with Cromwell as the King’s man and More as the Pope’s.

[LuciaMia]

 

That Cromwell looks scarily like one of the pictures of the real one.

It's funny. I think he looks a lot like the famous Holbein portrait of Thomas More.  Speaking of which, it seems like they casted the actor who looked the least like that handsome painting.

[SusanSunflower]

My only suggestion wrt this show is that I think it would have been better to do 90 minute (or even 2 hour) segments ... I'm finding the 1 hour segments over before I've fully acclimatized to the characters, the dark lighting, etc. and being allowed "bigger bites" of the story I think would allow more audience buy-in. Anyone know if Cromwell's hat (a beret variation) has significance as to circumstance of birth, rank, etc.  I've seen no other character wearing something similar. 

[Ohwell]

You mean "The Other Boleyn Girl". Nick Dunning was Thomas Boleyn in "The Tudors".

Yes, thanks.  I called him "pimp daddy" in that movie for basically pimping out his daughters.

[A Boston Gal]

I heard a podcast interview of the author and the (director, I think!) on KCRW's The Business. If she was being truthful, Hilary Mantel ADORES this adaptation, and it was a huge hit when it aired in England. 

 

She seemed very happy indeed, but I have to say her voice sounded like a Tracey Ullman character. No disrespect to Ms. Mantel intended.

Edited April 14, 2015 by A Boston Gal

[meep.meep]

Mantel's voice is truly odd.  It sort of sounds like she's lisping, but I don't think she is.

 

I like the show, but am still not sure Rylance was the best for the part.  It's the story of a self-made man at a time and place when that was particularly difficult. It's not going to be a bodice ripper.   In this episode, his patron was accused of treason, and instead of being taken down, Cromwell has risen in the king's favor.  

[Dirtybubble]

The best scene was Cromwell watching the actors playing the rats in the Wolsey scene, watching them take off their masks, noting who they were. It's chilling.

can someone please explain this scene to me. What is the significance of it? I feel like something of importance is flying over my head :)

Still loving this show!! I'm not 100% up on the history of this time period so while I'm watching the show if something is happening that I don't understand I simply hit pause and Google as much as I can and fill in the blanks.

Did anyone else fell terrible for Mary Boleyn? Ugh poor dear, it was kinda sad watching her make a pass at Cromwell.

Oh and did anyone catch the introduction of Jane Seymour the 3rd wife of Henry VIII?

Edited April 15, 2015 by Dirtybubble

[dr pepper]

The best scene was Cromwell watching the actors playing the rats in the Wolsey scene, watching them take off their masks, noting who they were.  It's chilling.

 

 

can someone please explain this scene to me. What is the significance of it? I feel like something of importance is flying over my head :)

 

With Woolsey first disgraced and then soon after dead, various courtiers who had feared or hated him decided to have an impromptu play: "Woolsey Goes to Hell".

 

And they not only had him going to Hell, they also mocked his origins. It was well known that Woolsey's father was a village butcher and that he had worked his way up, and a lot of people resented that.

 

Once Woolsey was both out of the king's favor and dead, these gentlemen thought it was safe to disrespect him. Cromwell's goal is to prove them wrong.

[MrsE]

He's taking names, and will be looking for opportunities to make them pay.  They consistently underestimate him because of his humble origins and unshowy manner, but they may well regret that.

 

In answer to an earlier question, the programme attracted huge critical acclaim in Britain.  I don't know anyone who watched it who wasn't completely entranced by it.  The production design, lighting, very sparing use of music unless it's "in scene", all very atmospheric.

 

Rylance I think perfectly conveys the rise of a new class of courtier, a process started under Henry VII who valued ability over social standing.  His very unobtrusiveness is dangerous because it means that he is overlooked by those who equate power and agency with status and bravura. He's like an animal that stays very, very still and so goes unnoticed by other predators. The King recognises his worth and that in itself is a double edged sword.

 

And this is what I think makes this not a straightforward history, but the use of historical figures to illustrate certain human traits and immutable truths:  these people represent power, ambition, hubris, ego, pragmatism, love, loyalty.  Oh, and there is some absolutely top notch swearing from Norfolk which is worth the price of admission in itself.

[Constantinople]

Once Woolsey was both out of the king's favor and dead, these gentlemen thought it was safe to disrespect him. Cromwell's goal is to prove them wrong.

 

 

He's taking names, and will be looking for opportunities to make them pay.

Cromwell's copy of Tynsdale's translation must have left out the bit about turning the other cheek.

With the King's dream and Cromwell's story about the sculpture, the lickspittle and the fraud are coming into stronger focus.

Interesting that they omitted Wolsey (Cromwell)'s seizure of "corrupt" monasteries to fund Cardinal college. Perhaps they didn't want viewers to think of Cromwell as an inveterate thief. Either that or "Thou shalt not steal" was also left out.

[duVerre]

 

The lighting is fucking gorgeous

 

Hello. I am late to the party.

 

I have never seen a tv production that can compare with the cinematography here. The blacks have dimension; you could walk right into them. In fact, they often don't seem black; it's more like a combination of dark, dark brown and blue. The daylight streaming into the interiors just knocks me out, especially in Cromwell's home. It's a very cool, pale light with incredible clarity, and some of those domestic scenes looked like they were Vermeers by way of Sargent--especially when Cromwell's daughter ran her fingers over the page of the illuminated book. I felt like I could touch that book myself. It was glowing, (Sorry for the pretension; art history major here.)

 

I adore the books, and I'm tired of Tudor England dramas that are all heaving bosoms and fingers greased up with roast chicken.  I think all the actors are superb; the script is intelligent (considering the drastic cutting of the book). But I don't like the way it is being directed. Something about it feels just too "worthy"--solemn rather than serious, staid instead of stately, a little too reverent. It's as though the director is deathly scared of letting anyone have any fun. 

 

I'll keep watching, obviously. I'm just disappointed that it feels so .... cautious.

Edited April 15, 2015 by duVerre

[pasdetrois]

Cromwell's shift from myopic allegiance to the now-dead Wolsey, to understanding that Cromwell's future lies in helping Anne and Henry and moving in that direction, was seamless. It's a significant leap, especially given Cromwell's lowly station, and he accomplished it almost invisibly. His enemies never see him coming.

 

Loved the little touch of Henry imperiously expecting Cromwell to automatically help Henry get out of his archery gear. There's a tiny beat while Cromwell has to figure it out.

 

Cromwell's tall skinny son is played by the guy who was the cute little kid in Love Actually.

 

His spoiled son gets his white greyhounds, and Cromwell has a little skip in his step after (presumably) making whoopee. Hee.

 

Cromwell noting the unmasking of the vengeful merrymakers was chilling.

Edited April 16, 2015 by pasdetrois

[kieyra]

I believe the tall skinny one is his ward, Rafe Sadler. The bigger, confident one is his nephew Richard, and his only biological son is the one with the greyhounds. They don't spell that out much, but to be fair he treats all three more or less as sons.

 

Edit, mild spoiler for future eps:

I believe they give Richard some of the duties of Christophe, who sadly doesn't appear in the show.

Edited April 16, 2015 by kieyra

[duVerre]

 

Cromwell's tall skinny son is played by the guy who was the cute little kid in Love Actually.

 

As noted, the tall skinny character is Rafe, played by Thomas Brodie Sangster. The first time I saw him was in 2009's "Bright Star," playing the little brother of Fanny Brawn, John Keats's fiance. I see from imdb that he seems to work everywhere, all the time. He has an extraordinary face.

 

OT, I highly recommend "Bright Star." 

Edited April 16, 2015 by duVerre

[rockchicknyc]

There is nothing I like more than good historical costume-drama soap. The operative word being "good."  "Wolf Hall", of which I had such high hopes, is the biggest pile of dull, boring, sterile, threadbare monotony I have ever had the misfortune to witness. Mark Rylance demonstrates all the affect of a flatfish. Or possibly Eeyore. Damien Lewis looks the part, as so few Henrys have in recent years, but even he, as one of the most interesting and horrifically unenlightened monarchs in all history, is a freakin' bore, surpassed in boredom only by Claire Foy playing a complicated and morally ambiguous queen-wannabe as if she were just a London mean girl. I'm currently wading my way through the book---it's taken weeks, and I'm ordinarily an extremely fast reader---and I know a vast amount about the period, but man, I just do not care.  But the locations, props and costumes are gorgeous, so I will continue to watch for the eye candy.

[WhiteStumbler]

Finally caught up. I am absolutely entranced. I felt transported into a still life oil painting -- rich, hushed, and full of detail. What was up with letting a monkey run around the dinner table at Th. More's house? That was nuts. The peacock feather angel-wings from the first episode were beautiful. Man, death comes suddenly during this time; kiss your family goodbye in the morning, then fever takes them all by the end of the workday. I love the fact that it is taking its time and not going for a soap-opera effect - this is like a plain-chant tone poem on power and its limits and costs.

[JudyObscure]

The talk about the cinematography is interesting.  I agree that it's beautiful and Vermeer-like at times, but I'm going to have to quit watching because there are too many scenes where I simply can't see anything at all beyond the candles  I think maybe I need a better TV.

 

Then there's Cromwell.  His son tells him about his interest in acting and his problem with the black dogs and he responds with total silence.  His Majesty, King Henry the VIII asks him a yes or no question and he responds with total silence. Is that likely?  I know I wanted to have his head off for a minute.

 

I have to quit and I had really looked forward to this.

[jennylauren123]

I am thoroughly enjoying Mark Rylance. His acting is very different, in that he acts mostly with expression. However, I find it very effective. I find him extremely talented and watchable. If I need action, I won't pick a show like this one. His action happens below the surface, and that's what makes him fascinating to watch. It's all about subtlety.

[Maximona]

I'm late to the party too, but totally loving this. 

[paramitch]

I'm definitely with those enjoying the heck out of this. It's gorgeously produced, the acting and cinematography is swoon-worthy, and I appreciate its different point of view on the Henry VIII years (especially after the frustration of works like "The Tudors," which spent more attention on the breasts of Henry's various conquests than it ever did on actual historical facts). I'm totally all-in.

 

Well, now I'm sad again. I'd been kind of hoping that I was being too nitpicky about Rylance and that the show would win lots of people over anyway. Now I'm back to 'how did this casting occur', and 'did anyone in casting read the books'. 

I wasn't sold on Rylance's casting -- I've loved him as a theatre performer, but wondered if he wasn't going to be rather too over-the-top here, so it's interesting that criticisms tend to be about how quiet he is. However, I really love his work thus far, and have no problems with his portrayal. He's playing exactly the kind of guy I think is appropriate here -- a quiet man who's a bit but confident in himself, his abilities, and in those he champions -- a guy the big power-players never quite saw coming. And yet, thanks to Rylance, we can see from even the most subtle expressions what he notices, what affects him, what has him thinking. I find his Cromwell completely fascinating.

 

I couldn't get through two episodes of the Tudors so I don't have any of that baggage.  The only memorable Thomas More is Paul Scofield's annoying, totally unbelievable goody two shoes. I loved Mantel's More, especially his relationship with Alice, this is definitely not Paul Scofield and Wendy Hiller. The best scene was Cromwell watching the actors playing the rats in the Wolsey scene, watching them take off their masks, noting who they were.  It's chilling.

I'm with you on "The Tudors." I got through about 6 episodes and just couldn't. I wanted to hang in there, because I've heard Natalie Dormer is great as Anne (and she definitely has the right fire and sharpness), but I couldn't do it. The show had a ton of wonderful actors, but the constant pauses for sexytimes became inadvertently hilarious -- every time Henry ripped another bodice, at a certain point, I laughed.

 

I am loving the shit out of this show. I think Rylance is killing it, with his dour outlook, dry as dust humor, and calculated patience. The lighting is fucking gorgeous (holy shit, the scene where Johane is snuffing the candles one by one in TC's study, leaving only the firelight? Should be taught in every film school starting like yesterday), the costumes are luxe, and the political backbiting is hysterical in its obvious plausible-deniability. I even like the lack of a musical score under most scenes -- the quiet is ominous and heavy.

I agree with everything you say here.  I also really LOVE the casting of Damian Lewis as Henry -- perhaps the best casting of a Henry in his prime that I've ever seen. He's ginger! He's athletic, smart and likable, but also fallible -- loved the little glimpses of his arrogance and narcissism. That's what makes his entire story so sad and so terrible -- he wasn't a monster at first.

 

Also, you bring up the music -- this is a weird pet peeve of mine, but I'm so happy to see and hear ACTUAL period instruments -- including recorders, viols, lutes, etc. So many depictions of this period jar me by instantly using incorrect instruments (it's very noticeable), so it's lovely to hear appropriate Early Music instruments here, and the score backs that up beautifully and unobtrusively.

 

I totally agree!   I hated The Tudors and am just loving this to death.   I saw Rylance in Twelfth Night and thought nothing could top that performance and was so wrong.  He is just mesmerizing me in this performance.  Especially when he doesn't say anything but you just watch his face.

 

And he was adorable with the kitten - especially with the Rowl! 

I think he's brilliant and subtle thus far. And I have to admit, I was kind of verklempt at the teeny teeny adorable kitten and the little growls Rylance was using -- just really funny and human and charming.

 

Did anyone else fell terrible for Mary Boleyn? Ugh poor dear, it was kinda sad watching her make a pass at Cromwell.

Oh and did anyone catch the introduction of Jane Seymour the 3rd wife of Henry VIII?

I loved Mary's scene with Cromwell, which I thought was touching and sweet, and also had a quiet grin at the appearance as Jane merely as an annoyance at that point, as "the one who cries."

 

Rylance I think perfectly conveys the rise of a new class of courtier, a process started under Henry VII who valued ability over social standing.  His very unobtrusiveness is dangerous because it means that he is overlooked by those who equate power and agency with status and bravura. He's like an animal that stays very, very still and so goes unnoticed by other predators. The King recognises his worth and that in itself is a double edged sword.

 

I am thoroughly enjoying Mark Rylance. His acting is very different, in that he acts mostly with expression. However, I find it very effective. I find him extremely talented and watchable. If I need action, I won't pick a show like this one. His action happens below the surface, and that's what makes him fascinating to watch. It's all about subtlety.

I agree with both observations. Cromwell isn't a bravura presence, to me, which is why Rylance works so well in what he's doing. He's quiet, observant, and smart. He's willing to prove himself over time -- and he never misses a thing.

 

I'm enjoying the show and am definitely going to keep watching. 

[Milburn Stone]

I've been really trying to get into this, but I might have to give up. It's just too confusing for me :(. Without having read the book or knowing much about that particular bit of history, I just can't follow along very well.

 

Not saying this will work for you, but it's working for me--watching with the subtitles on. That doesn't clear up 100% of everything, but it clears up a hell of a lot. I know, because I started watching the first episode without them, and was like, "Will someone please tell me what the frack is going on?", then decided to restart from the beginning with them turned on, and got a handle on things. Those English people don't speak too good so us Americans can understand 'em.

[Tippi]

 

I'm with you on "The Tudors." I got through about 6 episodes and just couldn't. I wanted to hang in there, because I've heard Natalie Dormer is great as Anne (and she definitely has the right fire and sharpness), but I couldn't do it. The show had a ton of wonderful actors, but the constant pauses for sexytimes became inadvertently hilarious -- every time Henry ripped another bodice, at a certain point, I laughed.

Paramitch, if you get a chance, watch the last two episodes of Season 2 of the Tudors.  Natalie is just wonderful as Anne in these episodes.  Her reaction as she watches from her Tower room as the men get executed is one of realest and rawest scenes that I have seen in various Tudor dramas. Natalie was the first Anne that really drove home to me what her life as Queen must have been like.  If she was not pregnant, then each day she must have been desperate to become so.  And given that Henry's love so obviously cooled for her and that he was apparently having trouble getting and staying aroused, then the stakes for each coupling they had must have been sky high for her. When she did succeed in getting pregnant, then there was all the fear that the child would be another girl, or worse, a miscarriage.  I have read that she strained mightily to keep from miscarrying the male child in 1536.  Chapuys scornfully called her that thin old woman and I imagine the incredible stress may well have done that to her.

[Avaleigh]

Well, I'm happy to say that I have a new show. Two episodes in and I'm riveted. I've only ever seen Mark Rylance in one or two things most notably Angels and Insects with Kristin Scott Thomas. He's so great here it makes me want to see what else he's been in. He's very good at conveying sincerity and sensitivity. I'm liking Claire Foy's Anne Boleyn too. I feel like I've seen so many women play the character and each one brings something different to the role. I love how haughty she is and while she doesn't physically look the way I imagine Anne to have looked I still think it's a nice bit of casting.

 

I knew I'd love Damian Lewis. He's great in everything.

 

The character of Mary makes me wince. She comes across as sort of pathetic and a little desperate. What an awkward situation for the sisters in general. Imagine the Duchess of Cambridge marrying William while knowing that he'd dated Pippa for a couple of years. 

[Pogojoco]

Well, I'm happy to say that I have a new show. Two episodes in and I'm riveted. I've only ever seen Mark Rylance in one or two things most notably Angels and Insects with Kristin Scott Thomas. He's so great here it makes me want to see what else he's been in. He's very good at conveying sincerity and sensitivity. I'm liking Claire Foy's Anne Boleyn too. I feel like I've seen so many women play the character and each one brings something different to the role. I love how haughty she is and while she doesn't physically look the way I imagine Anne to have looked I still think it's a nice bit of casting.

 

I knew I'd love Damian Lewis. He's great in everything.

 

The character of Mary makes me wince. She comes across as sort of pathetic and a little desperate. What an awkward situation for the sisters in general. Imagine the Duchess of Cambridge marrying William while knowing that he'd dated Pippa for a couple of years. 

Oooh even more awkward. It'd be like Kate marrying William after Pippa had a couple of his bastard kids. 

[qtpye]

On 5/10/2015 at 7:18 PM, Tippi said:

Paramitch, if you get a chance, watch the last two episodes of Season 2 of the Tudors.  Natalie is just wonderful as Anne in these episodes.  Her reaction as she watches from her Tower room as the men get executed is one of realest and rawest scenes that I have seen in various Tudor dramas. Natalie was the first Anne that really drove home to me what her life as Queen must have been like.  If she was not pregnant, then each day she must have been desperate to become so.  And given that Henry's love so obviously cooled for her and that he was apparently having trouble getting and staying aroused, then the stakes for each coupling they had must have been sky high for her. When she did succeed in getting pregnant, then there was all the fear that the child would be another girl, or worse, a miscarriage.  I have read that she strained mightily to keep from miscarrying the male child in 1536.  Chapuys scornfully called her that thin old woman and I imagine the incredible stress may well have done that to her.

I so agree. I have rewatched the Tudors and am surprised that it was actually much better than the campy soap opera mess that I remembered. Natalie was amazing and all the main players were pretty good with the exception of JRM, who was woefully miscast in every way and basically chewed up the scenery with his acting. One thing about the Tudors is you would see a character behave extremely badly, but still feel a lot of sadness when that character died. Natalie made Anne so sympathetic that you almost forgot her glee at the death of Katherine and Wolsey. Also, all the men and women in the Tudors were so beautiful (I know totally unrealistic) that it is a shock to the system to see their counterparts in this show (The Tudors even had a handsome Wolsey).