S01.E17: Tricksters

[lanter]

 

Even the poor girl who could teleport was treated shabbily. First, she was mainly doing the bidding of a man and basically gave up when he left her, like she had no will of her own. Second, she was relatively non-violent and is now in solitary confinement for life, while Cold was let go to wreak havoc elsewhere with a wink and a smile. Ugh.

That still irks me. I really hope the show touches back on her character again because that misguided girl was done wrong.

Edited April 1, 2015 by lanter

[XtremeOne1]

I had to stop upvoting all the posts irritated by the treatment of Iris. I couldn't agree with you all more, but I was getting carpal tunnel. At least Eddie had some objections, but ugh with this storyline. Plus, the writers' desire to keep Iris in the dark has caused them to write her character as strangely uncurious and passive. Candice Patton is a good actress, she deserves better than this. Do the writers hate her? Rather, do they hate women in general? Because Caitlin's character has been pretty shafted too in terms of development except for her role as Firestorm's love interest. Even the poor girl who could teleport was treated shabbily. First, she was mainly doing the bidding of a man and basically gave up when he left her, like she had no will of her own. Second, she was relatively non-violent and is now in solitary confinement for life, while Cold was let go to wreak havoc elsewhere with a wink and a smile. Ugh.

 

 

The Arrow writers had issues with writing women, so no big shock that these guys do too. Caitlin started the show as slightly stand offish, more pragmatic, overall more mature and levelheaded. Now she mostly says, "Is this a good idea" and "Do you need a hug?"

 

Iris is treated like she's a child. "Don't her this, don't tell her that..." as if everyone else in the world can handle the truth but her. As if she isn't a fully capable human being. Are we supposed to cheer for them? Supposed to respect them? I can't. It makes me think each of them are sexist and patronizing. "Oh don't worry the little lady, she's so fragile! I DECLARE!" 

 

And yeah, how any female villains have one had?

 

One is the one dimensional sister of Overacting Cold Guy, the other is dead, and one is wrongfully imprisoned. Did she kill anyone? Did she seem violent or angry? She literally turned herself in. 

Edited April 1, 2015 by XtremeOne1

[Trini]

I hope Iris doesn't let up on her investigation*; there are ways to verify that story. Even if she doesn't find out what happened to Mason, she should figure out that she's being lied to.

 

 

*Although with these writers, I'm sure it will be never mentioned again.

[Actionmage]

I love the feelings of outrage on behalf of Iris, so I'd like to point out we have a thread for that:  Lightning Rods : Gender, Race, Homosexuality and Other Sensitive Topics (http://forums.previously.tv/topic/24018-lightning-rods-gender-race-homosexuality-and-other-sensitive-topics/#entry975710).

 

Question: Did that one dad have more than the Cute Blonde Moppet to care for in the park?  Otherwise, what kind of douche runs off and leaves his small child in a falling bomb zone?

[Cirien]

Wait that was Matt Letscher playing the real Eobard? Right. He was full on creepy playing him....And they can't bring the real Harrison back? Bummer

[Richness]

My CW station kept interrupting with NOAA severe weather alerts that muted out the show's audio, so keep that in mind when reading my comments. It really soured me on the whole episode. I was able to get most of it by turning on closed captioning, but that isn't a good substitute when you're use to getting both audio and video.

 

I love Mark Hamill, but the ham and cheese acting nearly killed me. If it matches the character's personality from the comics, I suppose that's fine. However, I wouldn't know since I haven't read a DC comic since the early 80s. I also wasn't sure if I was suppose to take the "I am your father!" line seriously or not.

 

I probably would have enjoyed listening to Well's phase relaxation audio session had that not been one of the scenes interrupted with a weather alert. But correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Barry running with his eyes closed for some of that? That doesn't seem very smart to me, and sounds infinitely more dumb that the people who make extended eye contact to hold conversations while driving in shows/movies.

 

Also, does the Speed Force explain why his supersuit didn't phase off him but the bracelet did? (Admittedly, I would love to have seen Barry come out the other side of the tanker truck totally naked.) Or is this one of the many mysterious things about the Speed Force that will never be explainable, like why the people he carries don't have their necks snapped by the sudden acceleration/deceleration, or why some people's clothes (mainly Falicity's) catch fire but others don't?

 

Furthermore, I'm sure I would have balled my eyes out over the Barry and his real Dad scenes had I not had to use close captioning again. *grumbles*

 

Also, can't believe this show is doubling down (tippling down, maybe even quadrupling down) on its lie to Iris. All the lies and secrets are finally out on Arrow, and it's a glorious thing. It's down right laughable that there so many villains and characters on other shows that know about Barry's identity, but Iris doesn't.

 

With all that confused anger aside, I continue to enjoy this show. It's just fun to watch, silly plots, overacting, and stupid science included.

[cynic]

.....

 

I probably would have enjoyed listening to Well's phase relaxation audio session had that not been one of the scenes interrupted with a weather alert. But correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Barry running with his eyes closed for some of that? That doesn't seem very smart to me, and sounds infinitely more dumb that the people who make extended eye contact to hold conversations while driving in shows/movies.

 

Also, does the Speed Force explain why his supersuit didn't phase off him but the bracelet did? (Admittedly, I would love to have seen Barry come out the other side of the tanker truck totally naked.) Or is this one of the many mysterious things about the Speed Force that will never be explainable, like why the people he carries don't have their necks snapped by the sudden acceleration/deceleration, or why some people's clothes (mainly Falicity's) catch fire but others don't?

 

.....

 

Let's face it. Barry's kinda dumb. Personally, if I was trying to put a solid object between me and an explosive device, especially considering said device would be smacking into said object at 600 miles per hour, my first choice would not be a tanker truck.

[Oscirus]

I'll get to the Iris stuff in a minute but even without that, this episode wasn't all that.

 

Given, Hamill was awesome ( I especially loved the  breaking bad reference), and the backstory of Wells/Thawne was fairly intriguing but other then that... We once again had Barry almost kill himself doing something stupid.  You didn't think to check the door before opening it? Those lessons from Oliver really paid off.  The criminals didn't really challenge Barry. I can accept that this show was  more about showing off the history of Wells, but still.  When the writer is too busy wacking it to his own self referential bull to write a threatening villain of the week, then you get something like this.

 

Eddie, no idea why you're going along with this nonsense but that's pretty much the end of your relationship with Iris. No more high road for you. WTF is wrong with you Joe? At what point are you going to stop treating your daughter like a carton of eggs? She's a grown assed woman, she doesn't need you to make her decisions for her. I bet if it was legal, this idiot would probably keep his daughter from school since she could possibly learn things that would wipe the smile from her pretty face. Oh and Barry did you really run to tell Joe about Iris investigating Mason? Jesus Christ, this is supposed to be the woman you love and you can't even defend her?  I'm also glad to see that you had your father meet all the important people in your life. Why am I supposed to support West Allen?

On the plus side she did find a smart way to alert Flash  about the trickster.

 

Also I know I didn't hear Joe say to the Flash that his father was kidnapped right in front of the captain. Please tell me that didn't happen.

[Mybrainhurts]

Also I know I didn't hear Joe say to the Flash that his father was kidnapped right in front of the captain. Please tell me that didn't happen.

 

 

It did happen but since the captain couldn't see that Joe was talking to the Flash, it didn't really matter.  The amazingly stupid thing Barry did was asking the Trickster about Henry Allen in front of Iris.  I'm hoping that Iris starts putting all this stuff together at some point because it's getting lamer and lamer that she doesn't know.  When even Eddie knows about Barry's identity, it just looks like the writers really want us to think Iris is a weak moron.  And it's irritating because otherwise, I thought tonight's show was pretty damn awesome.

[Jediknight]

It did happen but since the captain couldn't see that Joe was talking to the Flash, it didn't really matter.

Besides, ever since the captain's fiance said he spoke very highly of Barry, I've thought the captain knows or at the very least has a strong belief that Barry is The Flash.

[VCRTracking]

Iris in that red dress...WOW!

 

Yeah, she's not going to be happy everybody knew Barry's secret before her.

 

Felt so bad for the real Dr. Wells and Tess. He seemed like

 

Having Mark Hamill say "I am your father". Nice.

 

"I'm going to cut off his head and throw it in his face!" That line made me laugh.

[driedfruit]

Eddie, no idea why you're going along with this nonsense but that's pretty much the end of your relationship with Iris.

 

 

Iris will eventually forgive everyone, so why not Eddie too? Sigh.

[AmandaPanda]

Ummmm, (small voice) I actually found Cavanaugh kinda hot in that scene. I know. I'll show myself out.

 

It's okay. I'll follow you out because I felt the same way.

[cambridgeguy]

Eddie might (might!) be able to justify keeping Barry's secret by arguing that it's not his secret to tell.  Still, he has to suspect that lightning psychosis is a bunch of crap now.  That being said, Barry and Joe deserve hell for telling EVERYBODY but Iris.  I think Cold is the only one who actually needed to do some work to figure it out. 

 

Kudos to the person who noticed that Flash's logo was different - I guess Cisco will have some aesthetic changes to make to the costume.

 

Barry didn't do his vibrating voice trick when he was confronting the Tricksters - between that and asking about Henry Allen first shouldn't that be enough for Iris to suspect?  That and the Flash's inexplicable interest with a novice reporter.

[marketdoctor]

Dear Mark Hamill,

 

Thank you!

 

Sincerely,

The Internet.

[In2You]

And yeah, how any female villains have one had?

 

One is the one dimensional sister of Overacting Cold Guy, the other is dead, and one is wrongfully imprisoned. Did she kill anyone? Did she seem violent or angry? She literally turned herself in. 

To be fair The Rogue's is pretty much a male's club. Most of The Flash's enemies in the comics are men. Though since they are bringing character's from other parts of the DCU that aren't connected to The Flash then they can bring on some female metahuman villains. 

 

Golden Glider was doomed from the start when I saw who they cast in the role.

[Sakura12]

The fact that Eddie questioned keeping Iris in the dark puts me with Eddie/Iris. He at least cares enough to be upset at lying to her and questioning why. Barry and Joe continuously do it with very little guilt. I'm waiting for Linda to show up for one more episode and have Barry reveal his secret to her too. If they don't want Laurel comparisons, Stop doing the same thing they did to her to Iris! They even mention that Iris knows Barry and can tell when the Flash is upset. Put it together Iris! And hopefully the villain doesn't tell you.

 

"I am your father" Ha. I knew baby Trickster was his son from the beginning. I was waiting to see if they'd pull out that line. 

 

So Eobard Thawne changed his body and face to look like Harrison Wells. The real Harrison Wells seemed like a nice guy. It makes a little more sense because real Eobard looked more like he could be a descendant of Eddie. 

[Princess Lucky]

Let me start with the crap so I can then move on to the good stuff.

 

Barry is a dumbass. The end. I had joked in previous posts that he has the world's worst pokerface, and this episode (on top of last week's) proved it. Harrison would have to be blind not to notice. Which is why he was totally playing Barry when he was all "I know why you're acting this way...", he was trying to suss out just how much Barry knows. I'd like to chalk this up to post-time travel Barry, because he's been more erratic than usual, knowing he has that ability and having to choose how to use it (to save his mom? To save the real Harrison, after his body is presumably discovered?), but I don't know. I mean, he took that laptop from Iris and, instead of swooshing away, he just sat down right there, in front of her? He let the Trickster attach a bomb to him, and THEN activate it, like, 2 minutes later? When Barry could have just removed it in a second? Or, he grabbed the Trickster only to swoosh him 2 feet away and loudly ask him about "Henry Allen" in a way that clearly showed he had a personal interest in the man? The hell?

 

Also, I agree with everyone on just how random the reveal to Eddie was (though I also agree it might come into play later). I thought Eddie was going to hug him again, by the way. And a HELL YES to those who are saying that it was about time someone openly questioned Joe's insistence that Iris remain in the dark. I'm glad it was Eddie. Really, he's been such a sweetheart, it feels like the writers are going out of their way to make him decent and kind (though not a doormat). How will this end? Will they ruin him to make way for Barry/Iris? I don't know but I love Eddie.

 

Much as I thought Iris looked stunning, I am starting to think that the writers are just using her as window dressing (which is unfair to Candice Patton who is talented as well as gorgeous), not to mention as a plot device. When they want to play up the triangle, they turn her into a suggestive, jealous minx. When they want to work the Flash angle they remember she has a connection with the Flash (even though they hadn't had a scene together in, what, 6 episodes or something?). Plus they keep her in the Jitters set because lol she has a key. Like, what, she rolls up the security gates and turns on all the lights every time she needs to talk to the Flash? It just seems to me that, now that the triangle is (temporarily) dead in the water, the writers had to bring back the Iris/Flash thing which they had all but forgotten about. At least Iris was asking about Mason. That's something.

 

And the less said about Iris being kept in the dark the better. Gross. Pointless. Especially if there's any type of reset. I almost wish Eddie had told her the truth right here, but I guess Joe being her father overrides Eddie's authority. Because that's how it goes with women, no? The highest-ranking man in their life gets to decide? Father trumps live-in boyfriend? That's what I got, at least, when Joe made that “wtf” face after Eddie (bless him) said he was not OK with lying to Iris. Joe was like "who the hell are you to make that decision for my smart,  independent daughter? I'm the one who gets to decide for her, d'oh!". Ridiculous. By the way, does Barry only remember Eddie exists when he needs help, when Eddie has to do his bidding? Because throughout the previous 2 episodes Barry was literally acting like Eddie didn't exist (talking to Iris like she was unattached and ready to date him). Ugh.

 

Anyway. The good stuff. Mark Hamill was AWESOME (his performance was worth the price of admission in my opinion) and "I am your father" had me rolling, but the whole bit with the poison and the antidote and Henry being kidnapped was resolved in, what, 4 minutes? Eh. Plus I find myself so excited about anything involving Harrison Wells that I honestly can't care about anything else when important stuff goes down in that storyline.

 

So. Mythology; it was clear that Eobard wanted to kill Kid Barry, no? Also, Eobard made the particle accelerator, what, 6-ish years early? What does that mean? Did the real Harrison's particle accelerator cause the creation of the Flash originally? Did the explosion still happen anyway? In 2020? So Eobard literally just sped it up? So Barry originally became the Flash at, like, 30-something? Or did Eobard tweak things to replicate whatever it was that created The Flash in the first place?

 

Also, I did love the changes to the Eobard Thawne story (from what I've gathered, I haven't read the comic books). The change in appearance was a pretty smart way to do that whole "Eobard had plastic surgery to look like The Flash because he was a fanboy" more realistically. And, as Grant had said, this wasn't widely speculated (or at all); most people, including myself, thought that Eobard created the Harrison Wells persona and concocted the death of Tess to explain away the fact he was a recluse etc. But Eobard just took over the body of the real Harrison Wells (who either accidentally created The Flash or, because of his background -and future, known to Eobard- had the necessary tools to do it in a pinch). That was fantastic.

 

Right before the episode aired there was that tease that a CW fave would appear in a major role. I initially speculated it might be a woman, playing flashback Tess Morgan. But then people started tweeting about Matt Letscher, and that got me suspicious. And the reveal was amazing. I've always loved Matt Letscher, and he did a great job at appearing menacing and detached. Great casting. I love Wells and Tom Cavanagh and I'd have been disappointed with, I don't know, someone inferior suddenly being Eobard. Letscher was perfect, and he does resemble Eddie more for sure.

 

So. The real Harrison Wells. My heart hurts. He was so sunny and bubbly and fast-talking and excited and in love. And he had so many plans for the future, idealistic plans, plans he'd realise with the help of his wife. Sigh. When Joe was all "Barry, you love science and Harrison Wells is science", I thought "yes he is. The real Harrison Wells is.". I mean, just think about it; Barry and the real Harrison would become instant bffs. And he'd get along with Cisco and Caitlin and oh my god. By the way, I imagine Eobard knew about Caitlin and Cisco and recruited them for that purpose? Like, did an older Cisco and an older Caitlin work for the real Harrison? Or did Eobard hire them because he knew about their heroic/villainous future? So many questions.

 

Tom Cavanagh was so precious as the real Harrison. Damn. And then he was so desperate when Tess was hurt, and then he was still disoriented and confused when Eobard, like, drained him, and just. And as Harrison, guiding Barry, when he hit the perfect balance between "relaxing" and "creepy"? Like, he was so soothing but it felt like his voice was lulling you unto a false sense of security so he could then stab you in the kidney? Amazing. We really can't lose Tom Cavanagh. I just hope the "real Harrison" reveal is a way for us to keep him, possibly after a reset of the timeline. I mean, I now NEED the show to bring back the real Harrison. And to also keep Matt Letscher as Eobard.

 

Also, in all the interviews after this ep there's talk of some of Harrison's love for Tess (and more, I imagine) bleeding into Eobard's personality. So he might still be in there somehow. It's weird, but this reveal has changed my feelings for "Harrison Wells"; I, of course, love the real Harrison. I also feel that now it's OK to like "Harrison Wells" because there's a tiny bit of the real Harrison in there, tempering Eobard's villainy. And I love to hate "Eobard Thawne" (whom I now visualise as Matt Letscher, not TC) because he's deliciously villainous and from the future and he just wants to kill everyone. Just. I don't know what my feelings are doing.

 

Can't the whole show just be about the Reverse Flash and time travel? Sigh.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Princess Lucky

[TVHappy9463]

Eddie's a dead man. Finding out the secret usually meas bad news.   NotWells will kill him, and Barry won't be able to turn back time, and will watch from afar as Iris grieves.  The trickster stuff was fun, it's nice to see Mark Hamill bring his very successful voice over work to the screen.  "I'm your father" and his line about smelling them ( the Twizzlers) in Barry's pocket were awesome.  I really don't want Tom Cavanaugh to go away, perhaps they can extricate NotWells from his body without killing him. I like him and Joe as Barry's guides.  Great episode all the way around, sure wish they would bring some of those writers to Arrow, they have needed it the past few episodes.  The scenes for the upcoming x-over look boss.  

 

Almost forgot now Barry's dad knows who he is too. OMG loved that moment.  

Edited April 1, 2015 by TVHappy9463

[KirkB]

I believe it was hinted earlier in the season that Barry's dad already suspected he was the Flash. So when Barry took his mask down he was not shocked or surprised but pleased and proud.

 

Mark Hamill was so much fun to watch. Back in the day, with the original Flash show, I remember thinking he was so over the top but it worked for me and it still does. It's no wonder he does such good voice work as the Joker.

 

Iris definitely looked hot in that dress, but I agree that the writers going in circles to keep her from knowing Barry's secret is beyond ridiculous. Especially considering all the people who do know, including Captain Cold. Iris is supposed to be a reporter, hired specifically to write about the Flash, yes? Yet she got a picture of the Flash on her phone earlier that she has, as far as we know, done NOTHING with. She has made no real effort to learn his identity or origins, and has routinely and repeatedly ignored her now missing mentor's suggestions she look into the suspicious activities of Harrison Wells and STAR Labs. So Iris comes off, to me at least, as both unobservant and not particularly curious, both necessary qualities for a reporter.

 

In the fight in the past, was it just me or did it look like it was the yellow blur, not the red, who whisked young Barry away from the house? Why would Thawne save him? And given that they were just running in circles around mamma Allen, how did she even get killed?

 

Poor real Harrison Wells. An acclaimed scientist with a bright future, whose life was ended and his legacy ruined because of how brilliant and well respected he would have been in the future. I wonder though, does that mean the Flash originally didn't come around until 2020 or did Thawne have to cause the PA accident in order to create the Flash in the first place so he could use his energy to get home? Did he just accelerate the timeline or did he create it?

 

On the subject of Thawne, now that we know the real Wells has been dead for years, was he really paralyzed in the PA explosion? Seeing as he has gotten up and walked on several occasions it seems not, but wasn't there at least one episode where he collapsed and didn't seem to be able to walk at all? Yet if he is a speedster like Barry, shouldn't he heal the same way? Or is his fluctuating speed force keeping his powers from working the way they should?

Edited April 1, 2015 by KirkB

[Sandman]

Maybe telling Eddie was actually somehow necessary, in a timeline-related way? Eobard (whom I'm now struggling not to refer to as "Ewbad!" after his plug-and-play dessication of Harrison Wells) Thawne found out about the identity of the Flash because of knowledge passed down through his family. (Although if TVHappy is right, Eddie might not live to pass on any secrets. I have no idea, really.

Did anyone else think of the shapeshifters in Fringe when Eobard connected his USB of Doom to Harrison Wells? (Talk about a lightning connector!)

[catrox14]

 

Did anyone else think of the shapeshifters in Fringe when Eobard connected his USB of Doom to Harrison Wells? (Talk about a lightning connector!)

 

I was literally yelling at the TV, "HEY YOU GUYS STOLE THAT FROM FRINGE!".  I was irrationally annoyed.  

[SevenStars]

The fact that Eddie questioned keeping Iris in the dark puts me with Eddie/Iris. He at least cares enough to be upset at lying to her and questioning why. Barry and Joe continuously do it with very little guilt. 

 

I actually feel the opposite. The fact that Eddie knows/feel that it is wrong to keep Iris in the dark but still does it without pushing back make him look worst in my eyes because at least Joe and Barry truly do seems to believe that keeping Iris in the dark is protecting her. Yes, what they are doing is mess-up but they believe in it and that's why they continue to do it without feeling guilty. It's like they don't know better, so they are not doing better where Iris is concern in this matter.

 

Eddie in the other hand seems to know better. He seems to understand that keeping Iris in the dark is not the best thing for Iris. That it is not really protecting Iris. But he is going along with Joe and Barry for no good reason. It's like he is going along with the secret because he doesn't want to be kick out of the "boy's club" even thought he knows it's not the right thing to do. In my eyes, that makes him worst then Joe and Barry.

[Sakura12]

I actually feel the opposite. The fact that Eddie knows/feel that it is wrong to keep Iris in the dark but still does it without pushing back make him look worst in my eyes because at least Joe and Barry truly do seems to believe that keeping Iris in the dark is protecting her. Yes, what they are doing is mess-up but they believe in it and that's why they continue to do it without feeling guilty. It's like they don't know better, so they are not doing better where Iris is concern in this matter.

 

Eddie in the other hand seems to know better. He seems to understand that keeping Iris in the dark is not the best thing for Iris. That it is not really protecting Iris. But he is going along with Joe and Barry for no good reason. It's like he is going along with the secret because he doesn't want to be kick out of the "boy's club" even thought he knows it's not the right thing to do. In my eyes, that makes him worst then Joe and Barry.

 

I didn't see it that way. When Joe and Barry said they have to keep Iris in the dark to protect her. He said "That's debatable and we will debate that". To me it looks like he's going along with it now since it was just thrown at him, but he wants to talk about it and doesn't agree with it.

 

Which makes him better in my eyes. But of course they will screw him up somehow because Barry has to look like good guy hero. Eddie will probably become evil like his descendant. 

Edited April 1, 2015 by Sakura12

[wingster55]

See, in this instance I get where Eddie (and Barry and Joe) are coming from. Mason was investigating Wells and it ended with him being killed. This isn't normal "keep Iris out of danger bs...this is "if Iris continues down Mason's path...she may get killed too".

I get it...and so does Eddie...but what we both disagree with is lying to Iris about everything else. 

[theschnauzers]

I believe it was hinted earlier in the season that Barry's dad already suspected he was the Flash. So when Barry took his mask down he was not shocked or surprised but pleased and proud.

 

Dad already knew that Barry was the Flash. They had a past conversation at the prison where Dad Allen spoke in a way to Barry that made it clear that he knew, and was giving "hypothetical" advice to the Flash. So the costume reveal in S,T,A,R, Labs was a matter of a convenient location for Barry to take off the mask, as Barry also knew that Dad already knew.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I believe it was hinted earlier in the season that Barry's dad already suspected he was the Flash. So when Barry took his mask down he was not shocked or surprised but pleased and proud.

 

..

 

Iris definitely looked hot in that dress, but I agree that the writers going in circles to keep her from knowing Barry's secret is beyond ridiculous. Especially considering all the people who do know, including Captain Cold. Iris is supposed to be a reporter, hired specifically to write about the Flash, yes? Yet she got a picture of the Flash on her phone earlier that she has, as far as we know, done NOTHING with. She has made no real effort to learn his identity or origins, and has routinely and repeatedly ignored her now missing mentor's suggestions she look into the suspicious activities of Harrison Wells and STAR Labs. So Iris comes off, to me at least, as both unobservant and not particularly curious, both necessary qualities for a reporter.

 

In the fight in the past, was it just me or did it look like it was the yellow blur, not the red, who whisked young Barry away from the house? Why would Thawne save him? And given that they were just running in circles around mamma Allen, how did she even get killed?

 

Poor real Harrison Wells. An acclaimed scientist with a bright future, whose life was ended and his legacy ruined because of how brilliant and well respected he would have been in the future. I wonder though, does that mean the Flash originally didn't come around until 2020 or did Thawne have to cause the PA accident in order to create the Flash in the first place so he could use his energy to get home? Did he just accelerate the timeline or did he create it?

 

On the subject of Thawne, now that we know the real Wells has been dead for years, was he really paralyzed in the PA explosion? Seeing as he has gotten up and walked on several occasions it seems not, but wasn't there at least one episode where he collapsed and didn't seem to be able to walk at all? Yet if he is a speedster like Barry, shouldn't he heal the same way? Or is his fluctuating speed force keeping his powers from working the way they should?

 

Henry pretty much explicitly said that he knew Barry was the Flash, and that he figured it out because the Flash messed with the inmate who'd messed with Henry. 

 

Iris submitted the picture she took to her newspaper, and they used it for a front-page photo. As far as we know, in the current timeline, Iris was told there might be something shady going on with Star Labs, but not so much about Wells himself. Iris checked in with Caitlin back when Ronnie was around, caught her in an apparent lie and then...nothing.

 

Iris, who was apparently working the fundraiser as a journalist, should not have accepted or drank the champagne. Not only does it give the appearance of impropriety, the alcohol might make it harder for her to actually report. Totes inappropes!

 

It did look to me as well that it was the yellow blur that picked Barry up and sped him away. Maybe that was a CGI error? Maybe other-timeline RF was lying to Cisco when he said he was trying to kill Barry? But the whole fight doesn't make sense to me. Specifically: How did RF end up wherever he was? What happened to adult Barry? Why was he not able to find now-powerless RF?

 

Anyway, I think it's clear that RF was not really paralyzed in the PA explosion. The one episode he collapsed was after using super-speed. He has been shown to have limits to how much super-speed he can use, and he apparently reached his limits on that occasion, causing him to collapse. Although it seems on the surface he is a speedster like Barry, as RF has himself said, in many ways he's quite the reverse.

 

This episode, I think, was the first to explicitly refer to the Speed Force, which in the comics, and presumably here, is a quasi-explanation and source for Barry's powers. My speculation is that Barry is going to be shown to be someone who generates energy for this Speed Force, while RF drains the Speed Force.

 

 

Maybe telling Eddie was actually somehow necessary, in a timeline-related way? Eobard (whom I'm now struggling not to refer to as "Ewbad!" after his plug-and-play dessication of Harrison Wells) Thawne found out about the identity of the Flash because of knowledge passed down through his family. (Although if TVHappy is right, Eddie might not live to pass on any secrets. I have no idea, really.

Did anyone else think of the shapeshifters in Fringe when Eobard connected his USB of Doom to Harrison Wells? (Talk about a lightning connector!)

 

I doubt if RF needed any specialized knowledge to be passed down the Thawne line. Where he comes from, Barry has been dead for centuries as well, and presumably his identity is openly known.

 

And yes, the writers here owe the Fringe folks a $1 for using their idea.

[SevenStars]

I didn't see it that way. When Joe and Barry said they have to keep Iris in the dark to protect her. He said "That's debatable and we will debate that". To me it looks like he's going along with it now since it was just thrown at him, but he wants to talk about it and doesn't agree with it.

 

Which makes him better in my eyes. But of course they will screw him up somehow because Barry has to look like good guy hero. Eddie will probably become evil like his descendant. 

 

You are right, the bold does make him better and I hope you are wrong and writers won't screw him over in order to make Barry look better.  

See, in this instance I get where Eddie (and Barry and Joe) are coming from. Mason was investigating Wells and it ended with him being killed. This isn't normal "keep Iris out of danger bs...this is "if Iris continues down Mason's path...she may get killed too".

I get it...and so does Eddie...but what we both disagree with is lying to Iris about everything else. 

 

I kind off agree with this because we have seen before that when they warn Iris to stay away from something because it is dangerous, she doesn't listen. So I understand why they would think that just lying to her is the better solution. 

 

While I get it, I still think they are wrong because Iris is not a child, but a grown woman, so she has the right to decide what she is willing to risk her life for. She has the right to have all the information in order to make an inform decision for herself. 

 

So, while I think they are wrong, I do get where they are coming from. 

[marcee]

The young Trickster was a terrible actor.

[In2You]

Iris, who was apparently working the fundraiser as a journalist, should not have accepted or drank the champagne. Not only does it give the appearance of impropriety, the alcohol might make it harder for her to actually report. Totes inappropes!

 

 

Actually the business etiquette class I took said if you are offered a drink the proper thing to do is accept it.

[calliope1975]

I really liked Mark Hamill and the Trickster stuff. It was so over the top and campy, but I thought it worked. I was even intrigued by Reverse Flash and Harrison Wells. Unfortunately, the episode ended on such a bullshit note that it put a huge damper on my enjoyment of the episode. It's 2015 and I'm tired of the big men having to protect the little frail lady. I'm glad Eddie questioned lying to Iris, but he still did it, so he's not getting any points from me. I'm over this trope - mostly because it's typically only women who can't know/handle the truth, and I am not here for that.

[VCRTracking]

I want Iris, if she ever finds out(which looks doubtful at this point), to be angry as hell and ream out both Barry and Joe for keeping this secret from her. Its beyond ridiculous at this point.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Actually the business etiquette class I took said if you are offered a drink the proper thing to do is accept it.

General business etiquette is not the same as journalistic ethics/etiquette. I find it impossible to believe that any news organization would be good with a reporter drinking alcohol while working in general, let alone accepting alcohol from a politician she is covering. 

[miracole]

 

he has to suspect that lightning psychosis is a bunch of crap now.

I so wanted him to ask Barry if he had lied about that and after Barry confirmed that it was a bunch of bull I then wanted Eddie to punch him again.

 

 

Oh Eddie.  Iris is going to to be so POed when she finds out about all the lies her dad, best friend and boyfriend have been telling her that she's going to put them on pause for awhile.  Unfortunately for Eddie he's the expendable one.  Joe's her dad, she'll forgive him eventually. And as Joe says pretty much every friggin week, Barry is the light of his life and the world so clearly Iris is going to have to eventually forgive him too(I do like Joe and Barry's relationship but It's hilarious to watch each epi and see in what new way Joe tells Barry that he's the apple of his eye). But poor Eddie's just the lying boyfriend now. Too bad.

 

 

[patchwork]

I didn't see it that way. When Joe and Barry said they have to keep Iris in the dark to protect her. He said "That's debatable and we will debate that". To me it looks like he's going along with it now since it was just thrown at him, but he wants to talk about it and doesn't agree with it.

 

Which makes him better in my eyes. But of course they will screw him up somehow because Barry has to look like good guy hero. Eddie will probably become evil like his descendant. 

 

He went along with it, he doesn't have to but he does and not only passively he's the one who actually lies to Iris. He could have told her that he can't find any sign of Mason so has passed the case on to Missing Persons and as Iris has shown no signs of investigative gumption she probably would have been satisfied with that.

 

Eddie is just like Barry, neither of them like lying to Iris but they do it to pacify Joe.  

[In2You]

I see they made Harrison Wells the founder of Star Labs. In the comics its Garrison Slate. 

General business etiquette is not the same as journalistic ethics/etiquette. I find it impossible to believe that any news organization would be good with a reporter drinking alcohol while working in general, let alone accepting alcohol from a politician she is covering. 

No is saying she should get drunk but I'm sure she's allowed to have one drink. Or at least etiquette says accept the glass. It doesn't say you actually have to drink it.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I don't want to belabor this point too much, but as I said, general business etiquette is different from journalism ethics/etiquette.

 

From the Society of Professional Journalist's Code of Ethics:
 

The highest and primary obligation of ethical journalism is to serve the public.

Journalists should:

...

– Refuse gifts, favors, fees, free travel and special treatment, and avoid political and other outside activities that may compromise integrity or impartiality, or may damage credibility.

 

http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp

 

Which is not to say that all journalists live up to this code at all times. But I would think a gift of champagne at a fundraiser would be an obvious one to turn down.

[Lord Malvolio]

Here's a crazy thought, what if Henry Allen is actually Barry from the future? Since they are keeping Mark Hamil as Original Trickster, why not Mr. SHIPP as original Flash? In the flashback, we see Reverse Flash get trapped in time, what happened to Flash? It could have been Flash from future who also got stuck in past and has been pretending to be Barry's "Dad" all that time? (Note a different man was Barry's real father that we don't know yet)

Edited April 1, 2015 by Lord Malvolio

[Primetimer]

Two generations of Tricksters run Barry ragged.

Read the story

[Dandesun]

Mark Hamill is a national treasure. I love that after playing an iconic character, one of the goodest good guys who ever gooded and made nerd boys everywhere dream of lightsabers of their own (and girls, too, although I wanted to be Leia who was smarter than everyone, had amazing aim and landed Han Solo) he wound up voicing one of the most maniacal super villains around and just... dude, his Joker is astounding.

 

So, of course, hop over and play the Trickster! It's not a character that has a lot of subtlety to him... it's not Magneto or anything... so yes! Chew that scenery! Chew it and spit it out and show them how it's done!

 

Also... if Iris isn't angry at the various men in her life for as long as they've been lying to her I'm going to be pissed off. A group of men deciding what a grown woman can or cannot know (and Caitlin gets no credit here, either... she's participating in the lies as well) with a vague excuse of 'for her protection' when no one seems able to explain exactly why her ignorance is a shield is just... I've had it. It's deplorable. When The Boyfriend is the one to at least voice concern over this pile of bullshit... not The Father or The Ultimate Love Interest/Hero... that sets an ugly tone.

 

Although it's not like these writers have covered themselves in glory regarding how the women on this show are written.

 

Frustrating as hell.

[kikaha]

The chase scene between Flash and RF was super cool. 

 

Barry behaved like a fool in front of Wells, who already suspects something is up.

 

Too many people know Barry is the Flash.  Also, his mask doesn't disguise his face at all well. 

 

Not only does Iris have strong (buried) feelings for Barry; she is more than a little smitten with the Flash.  When she learns they are one and the same, Eddie does not have a snowball's chance with her.  

[millennium]

Haven't read the whole thread -- only far enough to be confused and spoiled (thanks for that, I haven't seen the episode yet) --  before I realized the thread has an error in the title.

 

It's Season 1, Episode 17 -- not 07.

[wingster55]

That still irks me. I really hope the show touches back on her character again because that misguided girl was done wrong.

 

I can't fully agree...sure she showed remorse then but what if they took her to a regular prison...and then one day she decided she had enough? One blink and she's gone. A bit of a risk I think. 

[Captain Stable]

 

In the fight in the past, was it just me or did it look like it was the yellow blur, not the red, who whisked young Barry away from the house? Why would Thawne save him? And given that they were just running in circles around mamma Allen, how did she even get killed?

 

 

Barry leaves a yellow blur when he runs, Reverse Flash leaves a red blur. So older Barry saved himself.

[Captain Stable]

In all the excitement of this episode, did no one else notice Mayor Bellows is also from the 90's Flash show?
He was Officer Bellows, one half of the comedy Police Pair of Bellows and Murphy. Nice cameo.

[phoenics]

Let's face it. Barry's kinda dumb. Personally, if I was trying to put a solid object between me and an explosive device, especially considering said device would be smacking into said object at 600 miles per hour, my first choice would not be a tanker truck.

But see - Barry Allen isn't supposed to be dumb... ugh. I need a valium.

[phoenics]

I'll get to the Iris stuff in a minute but even without that, this episode wasn't all that.

 

Given, Hamill was awesome ( I especially loved the  breaking bad reference), and the backstory of Wells/Thawne was fairly intriguing but other then that... We once again had Barry almost kill himself doing something stupid.  You didn't think to check the door before opening it? Those lessons from Oliver really paid off.  The criminals didn't really challenge Barry. I can accept that this show was  more about showing off the history of Wells, but still.  When the writer is too busy wacking it to his own self referential bull to write a threatening villain of the week, then you get something like this.

 

Eddie, no idea why you're going along with this nonsense but that's pretty much the end of your relationship with Iris. No more high road for you. WTF is wrong with you Joe? At what point are you going to stop treating your daughter like a carton of eggs? She's a grown assed woman, she doesn't need you to make her decisions for her. I bet if it was legal, this idiot would probably keep his daughter from school since she could possibly learn things that would wipe the smile from her pretty face. Oh and Barry did you really run to tell Joe about Iris investigating Mason? Jesus Christ, this is supposed to be the woman you love and you can't even defend her?  I'm also glad to see that you had your father meet all the important people in your life. Why am I supposed to support West Allen?

On the plus side she did find a smart way to alert Flash  about the trickster.

 

Also I know I didn't hear Joe say to the Flash that his father was kidnapped right in front of the captain. Please tell me that didn't happen.

Agree with all of this!

Do need to point out that Iris already knows Henry or knows of him - Henry knows that Barry loves her - I imagine at some point Iris has gone to visit with Barry when he visited Henry. Maybe not - but Henry does already know of Iris.

But I see your point. It's just yet another reason why leaving Iris out of this is a stupid, stupid storyline that BETTER have an amazing payoff.

[catrice2]

Yes, after viewing it a second time for the parts I missed, I still say they make Barry, who was introduced on Arrow as some type of genius, or at the very least a very thoughtful guy, appear to be not that bright! 

 

I am tired of everyone knowing the "secret" similar to Arrow. Why don't they just put up a sign that says "The Flash lives here?" 

 

Sighing about the Iris thing again....and unlike others I don't care one way or the other about Cisco, the doctor (I can't even remember her name) or Wells. 

[phoenics]

See, in this instance I get where Eddie (and Barry and Joe) are coming from. Mason was investigating Wells and it ended with him being killed. This isn't normal "keep Iris out of danger bs...this is "if Iris continues down Mason's path...she may get killed too".

I get it...and so does Eddie...but what we both disagree with is lying to Iris about everything else.

I could almost agree with this except Reverse Flash has ALREADY threatened Iris and Joe and Barry know this already. So the fact that she can't investigate Wells because it's dangerous for her is the same fact that Barry/Joe/Eddie can't either because it's dangerous for her.

But they don't seem concerned at all with Reverse Flash's threat against Iris - they only seem concerned about keeping her in the dark cause (plot) reasons.

The writers suck.

[phoenics]

I don't want to belabor this point too much, but as I said, general business etiquette is different from journalism ethics/etiquette.

 

From the Society of Professional Journalist's Code of Ethics:

 

 

 

 

http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp

 

Which is not to say that all journalists live up to this code at all times. But I would think a gift of champagne at a fundraiser would be an obvious one to turn down.

I think it's reaching to consider a glass of champagne at an event a gift.

I get your point - but I don't believe it's quite that serious. Peter Parker drank champagne in the 2nd Spiderman movie - at an event he was supposed to be covering. Lois Lane in L&C drank when covering an event. It's champagne, not hard liquor.

It's clear the writers needed Iris to have drunk the champagne along with everyone else for plot purposes. Could they have done it differently? Yep - but I guess I've been focused so much on the really serious writing issues for Iris that this one just doesn't register - except that it illustrates that they may only see Iris as "plot" and not a fully realized character.

And that's infuriating, since she's 2nd billed on the show (as far as the actresses go). It's just a terrible way to write the character and treat the character.

So - this show is only about getting the male demographic? When did we get so cynical about men? They can't enjoy a well written female character? A huge part of the CW audience is women - specifically young girls - it's sad that they are being exposed to this tripe.

*steps down off of pedestal*

Edited April 2, 2015 by phoenics