S30.E04: S30.E04: Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner / S03.E05: We're Finally Playing Some Survivor

[JudyObscure]

Agree with Hincandenza that the problem isn't always gender.  That's probably why I disliked "Women from Venus,etc."  My father is an artist, my brother an artist and a gourmet cook, call either one to ask what color to paint the living room or what herb to use with lamb and you'd better be prepared to hold the phone for 45 minutes. Many of the women I know who are most vocal with outrage over male sexism are the first ones to take it for granted that the man will be taking out the garbage and fixing the car. Yes, some men do leave the toilet seat up, but almost every woman I know leaves the toilet lid up letting all those sewer gases into my home. Dan and Mike were just plain unkind to Sierra, no one wants every mistake in every challenge thrown in their face.  As my mother, the ax wielding gardener used to say, "Why can't people just be nice to each other?"

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm laughing because I'm thinking about how Max and Shirin thought they had the World's Greatest Strategy by walking around naked and 'intimidating' the other players a la Richard Hatch.  Jenn/Will seemed to indicate that "those two" just spend all their time together, "secretly" strategizing in full view of everyone, which leads me to believe all the dumb things they did were probably part of this great strategy.  And Max calling Shirin "brilliant" for telling Carolyn who to vote for or whoever, LOL.  It's just all so funny!  I also think Shirin said a bunch of things to 'scandalize' the other players.  Like "I killed a rabbit, you know?"  (Cue shocked faces).  But knowing people like Will, Jenn, and Hali they probably just gave them a slack-jawed stare (i.e. "Please stop talking.")

 

himela, I understand what you're saying, but what I'm saying is that just because Will isn't loudly telegraphing everything he's doing and acting emotionally about it, doesn't necessarily mean he's a dumb player.  He could be planning and thinking, but not telling the camera or other players.  I can't judge him for being a bad player until I see the result.  If I was Sierra I would hope I wouldn't make it clear to all the other players on my team I need reassurance (a la Kass) because that might be just another annoyance that the Blue Collar Bros might want to get rid of.  I get what you're saying and it might be smart, but I guess I'm not thinking like that.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[ProfCrash]

Rodney is a misogynist and has no clue what that word means or why it is a problem. His misogyny radiates off of him and is clearly seen. He hangs out with other people who hold the same view points and will probably find a woman who will love him and marry him and raise children with a similar view point. It annoys the crap out of me but I can avoid him. He is no different then a minority of the population who believes that men should be the head of household and women should be submissive or that polygamy is ok or any of those other minority views.

 

The Dan's, Mike's, and Vince's of the world are scarier to me because they are the ones who different people get different vibes off of making it easier for them to appear "safe" even though the language that they use (Mike and Dan) or their attempts to control people (Vince) are scary to a good number of people. Dan and Mike are the bro's who discuss their honey do lists and complain about nagging wives and the like. They are the dudes who will not see how their language is insidious and dangerous not because it is as obviously dangerous but because it reinforces stereotypes that make it hard for women to advance and for society to see women in a different light. Vince is the eccentric, holistic dude who people will right off as a bit cooky and harmless. It is easy to write off his long hugs, lack of personal space, and attempts to control things as someone who is just walking a different path that the rest of us don't understand while others see it as controlling behavior that has the possibility of being dangerous.

 

So yeah, Rodney is a pig who scares me but he is the obvious threat that we all see and worry about. I am more afraid of the folks that you can't see and who don't seem to be as threatening and that later on you end up reading interviews along the lines of "We never thought he would kill her". Note, I don't think that Dan or Mike have a personality that is controlling or physically threatening. I don't think that Vince is going to kill anyone but that there is a streak of something there that could turn violent in the right circumstances and that does worry me.

 

My threat rating : 1) Rodney but you know it is there and feel sorry for the woman who is eventually going to marry him because she thinks that his attitudes are OK and that she deserves to hear his view point on a daily basis. 2) Vince because he is someone who wants control and that always scares me. There is little room for compromise or mutual support, you have to do things his way or he is going to be in your face. 3) Dan/Mike, sexist pigs who seem like they are able to navigate society and are generally good guys but who don't understand why their views on women are harmful.

[JudyObscure]

I would love it so much if Will was the stealth player this year.  He knows when he's in danger from people like Vince who think being overweight means you're physically and mentally incompetent. I wish water wasn't his kryptonite because, as Dan has shown, swimming is often the large person's best sport.  Will is slow to anger and that gives him an advantage over half this season's cast.

[Drogo]

Or we could just listen and respond differently to people based on how they are as individuals. Not because of anything having to do with "men are like this" and "women are like that".

 

Definitely agree - and I'm not trying to excuse what Dan said, only to express that had Dan instead said "In my personal life I get better results when I talk to my wife/mom a certain way and I talk to my dad/brother a different way.  It's been my experience that the women and men I know communicate differently so I'm going to try that here" would have been much more relatable for a lot of people (myself included.)  Instead, he positioned it as "All girls cry and talk about their feelings. All dudes fix problems. I have cracked the code, now watch me win Survivor with this knowledge."    

 

I'm ready for Dan to go; his ugly mug and questionable apparel choices are this-close to making the Khaleesi stop watching with me. 

[Drogo]

 

Will is slow to anger and that gives him an advantage over half this season's cast.

 

I liked that Will had a plan but as soon as he heard Vince was a questionable ally he was able to divorce himself from that plan with no hesitation.  Carolyn also impressed me with her free agency.  That's a survival instinct a lot of players don't have- how many have we seen where someone feels/knows they're in trouble with their alliance but they make no move to preserve themselves and just keep doing the alliance's work for them? 

[needschocolate]

I think it kind of depends on the topic.  I can remember a Thanksgiving where a bunch of my younger male relatives spent half a football game discussing what sound system one of my nephews should install in a beat up used car he´d just received as a birthday gift.  The conversation wasn't really all that different than what you describe.

 

That's very true now that you mention it.  While there are definite gender differences (men give answers, women start a discussion) when I ask about living room paint colors, the results would b the opposite for other questions - and there would be no gender difference for other questions (asking where to go on vacation would get a lot of response from most of my friends of either sex).  I just have paint colors taking over my mind - and paint chips overtaking my dining room table - because I plan on re-painting soon. 

 

THAT's why I don't like Mike. Thanks for reminding me! I also come from a blue-collar family -- though my dad owned his own auto repair shop, so that makes him a "boss." The whole idea that blue collar are the worker bees while white collar bosses them around is ridiculous -- I'm white collar, but I don't have any employees. Also silly to rate who is working harder based on their jobs -- is the "barrel racer" really working that hard? She really has more of a no-collar job. And the hairdresser also could have been no-collar -- but she has plenty of tats and attitude, so they put Lyndsey with the BCs. I just roll my eyes at the assumptions and chest-beating self-aggrandizement -- from all the "collar" tribes.

 

I think most of us determine collar color by what sort of work you do, but it could also be determined by your position at a company.  For some, once your father became the boss, he went from being blue collar to being white collar, even if he was still working on cars every day. 

 

While many white collar workers don't have any blue collar workers they are in charge of, the vast majority of blue collar workers have a white collar boss.  And most people try to find a way to make themselves feel that they are the most important, hence the attitude by some that "I do all the work, you just sit at a desk bossing everyone around"

 

I take a lot of the chest beating with a grain of salt.  I am guessing that a lot of the talking heads that mention that "we are no collar, we don't get worked up about that stuff" or "we are blue collar, we have the strongest work ethic" or "we are white collar, we have other people to do that stuff for us" are in response to questions from production staff, like "do you think your tribe will have the better shelter because you are blue collar?" Plus, many, if not most, of the people that go on reality TV what attention, and if they see that this collar thing is important to the people in charge of what gets aired, they are more likely to work the collar thing into converstations. 

 

Well I feel a bit alienated from the group after reading the thread; I thought it was a good solid couple episodes.  I wouldn't call them 'great' or 'best' but I could see why Jeff might like them--they seemed to me to be season defining episodes.  I felt like I was getting clear who is who and what is what, who is good and who is bad, who I am rooting for and who I am rooting against.  I guess we'll see how it goes, but I feel like the season has a solid base now finally.

 

I felt the first episode was a typical one, but I can see why Probst would think the second episode was really good.  The vote came down to a choice between two people - both claim to be big fans and students of the game and know every detail from past seasons, one of them (the one that gets voted out) is thrilled about losing the challenge so he can really start playing, and the other sits at TC talking about how someone will get blindsided (at it is her ally, so she is getting blindsided too) and how it couldn't possibly be her.  Probst often uses the term "blindside: very loosely - if people know there is a chance of them going home, it is not a true blindside, IMO - but this time it was a complete blindside.  Neither Max nor Shirin thought there was any chance there plan wouldn't work.  The best episodes usually involve big blindsides or people making really bold moves (one could argue that Carolyn made one this time). 

 

Agree with Hincandenza that the problem isn't always gender.  That's probably why I disliked "Women from Venus,etc."  My father is an artist, my brother an artist and a gourmet cook, call either one to ask what color to paint the living room or what herb to use with lamb and you'd better be prepared to hold the phone for 45 minutes.

 

Do you think your father or brother could come over to my place and help be choose a paint color?

[FineWashables]

I agree that there are two different styles of listening, and I use them all the time.  If someone comes to me with a problem I will try to come up with some suggestion to help.  If they shoot that down, I'll try another idea.  If they shoot down three ideas then I accept that they don't want me to help, they just need to vent -- and often to demonstrate that their problem is so enormous and intellectually complex that no one can solve it.  From then on, I'll never offer that person suggestions again, just listen and be there for them.  People who do want to find a solution, we'll talk about it together.  So how I listen depends on my experiences with the individual I'm listening to.  Not once in my life has this been gender-driven. One listening style could be called active and the other passive, but I've never seen a gender pattern.  I'm guessing Dan still sees women as passive.  Jeez, dude, pick up a newspaper.

[Eolivet]

How has this not been posted yet? I thought of it during the rooster/hen discussion:

 

 

"Something's missing!"

[himela]

I think they, meaning Carolyn, made the right choice getting rid of Max.  Hali and Jenn may think that they were voting based on who was more annoying, but I think that Carolyn was the driving force behind the choice and she was not voting based on who was more annoying.  She had already targeted Max and it would have been a simple thing for her to say, "Shirin is more annoying now, but just wait, Max will be even worse soon" to get everyone else who actually cared about that distinction to vote the way she wanted. 

 

I think she made the right choice for these reasons:

 

1.  If she thought that they were going to merge at 12, then it doesn't matter if they lose the next IC anyway.

2.  I think Max would be more able to handle losing his closest ally and get back into the game than Shirin.

3.  I think it is always a good idea to keep an eye on the number of each gender left in the game and to stay on the right side of those numbers, especially in the beginning.  With Max gone there have been 3 women out and 2 men, instead of 4 women and 1 man.  Even if the alliances that emerge are mixed and gender doesn't seem to be taking a huge role in the strategic decisions, it is still an immediately identifiable difference that can be used to make inroads with someone or to develop a voting strategy like "Let's get rid of all of the other alliance, then when they are gone let's vote out the women (or men) in our alliance, then turn on each other".  And, even though Carolyn doesn't know exactly how things are going with Blue Collar as far as gender stereotyping is concerned, what she can see is a large group of men that will have time to bond while winning all the challenges until the (hopefully soon) merge.

4.  I don't think Carolyn jumping ship from her White Collar alliance was a mistake.  I think the alliances in this season will be very fluid and there  is still plenty of room for her to maneuver.

 

I disagree with this. It's wise to show (even if you hate it) that you are loyal to your alliance and at that moment the alliance Carolyn had was the former white collar tribe, and this cause you just never know what will happen in the process. Carolyn with her voting out Max disappointed three allies of hers (Joaquin, Shirin and Tyler) who were obviously counting on her keeping the numbers since they are in the minority in their tribe plus she showed to the remaining players that she not a loyal person who they can later in the game trust and they will always have the fear that she will easily betray them just like she betrayed her tribe. Adding to this that the only (obvious at least) reason she did this was cause she found Shirin and Max annoying makes her even more of a loose cannon. If I were in her tribe I would think "today she voted out Max cause she found him annoying, what will happen if she finds me annoying the next day? will she kick me as well?". The only reason I would justify Carolyn's move to vote out Max would be if she reallly considered him a threat for her game but editing did not show us anything of this scenario. The only reason that was presented was "Shirin and Max are annoying, I lived with them for eleven days, I can't take it anymore, lets just vote them out please". Your scenario for keeping the females doesn't seem valid either cause this wasn't shown as her purpose to kick Max. Could it be that Carolyn has a bigger plan in her head? Maybe. But editing didn't reveal it and with the info I have at the moment I think Carolyn made a huge mistake that will come back and hunt her later.

[Guest]

I think they ate all the chickens knowing there was a tribe swap occurring and that's why there was no need to eat the rooster first.  

 

I read they have a tap out there, not a well, so the water/wart in the pot wasn't that big a deal.  Though I can see it being gross to some because warts are highly contagious and if you use the pot to carry drinking water...

 

While I'm sure Dalton Ross has run a challenge before, they also have college interns who do it as tests and to get footage to show us before the survivors run it themselves, for use while Jeff describes the challenge.  

 

I didn't even notice Dan's use of 'girl'.  It strikes me as funny that it's a point of insult for some here, and others freely call the players 'mean girls'.  'Girl' doesn't bother me, except how Reed used it last year addressing Missy.  I thought Dan's comment was actually astute, though I am a woman who struggles not to respond to other women's problems the 'manly' way-- with solutions instead of pure sympathy.  

 

But Mike was right that Dan totally blew that apology to Sierra.  That was a highlight for me.  

 

I think Jeff loved know-it-all Max getting blindsided, not a nearly-all-male tribe.  He does admire athletic, alpha males, but he above all else knows this game and knows no one likes a lopsided game.  

 

I think he also loved Jenn finding an idol while her tribe dined on chicken.  Which, actually, is further evidence they ate them all before the merge.  If they split just one chicken, who would not be there at eating time?  

 

 

 

 

[JudyObscure]

If Jeff didn't dislike Max before the, "I just wanted to say that," interruption, I'm sure he did after that.

[Yogi Nomad]

I really want to root for player who are big fans of the show. I really do but they make it so hard. Max and Shirin were so busy discussing survivor instead of experiencing it with people who were there playing the game with them. 

 

Dan is just extremely annoying. I never noticed it before this episode, Lindsay is right, the way Dan talks is just way dramatic. What is up with the need to be right and wanted Sierra to acknowledge that she was mean to him too? what??? When you need the number, you do and say what you have to do. 

 

I like the three tribes dynamic but so far I'm not impressed. I'm still waiting for something to happen to make this season more interesting. It may ended up like BBB season where many people loved it but I just couldn't even finish that season. Tony is annoying, couldn't stand him. If Rodney or Dan is the winner of this season, I might be done with survivor.

[Special K]

If Jeff didn't dislike Max before the, "I just wanted to say that," interruption, I'm sure he did after that.

 

Probst's look of disdainful ennui was truly epic.  I rarely rewind this show, but I rewound to see that again.  And Carolyn's WTF face as well.  Gold!  And then to see the walls of Shirin's own smug self-regard come crashing down as Max got voted off!  Those were some great moments.

 

Meanwhile, I could not hate Dan more.  The combination of smugness and dimwittedness is at such a high level as to be practically  Shakespearean.  I can only hope he has an equally Shakespearean tragic end -- hoist by his own trogolodytic petard.   Please, Survivor, please!

 

I find Rodney to be reprehensible and a menace, but Dan makes me want to cut his stupid beard off in his sleep. And (sure why not) feed it to him for breakfast. *

 

 

* Lindsey

[peachmangosteen]

I'm a meat-eater, so I have no issue in general with slaughtering animals for food ...

 

I read this as man-eater at first and so needless to say I was very interested in this statement!

 

The only way this season will be at all redeemable to me is if the women completely run the game from here on out. I cannot deal with seeing these horrible "bros" on my screen all the way until the end.

 

I really hope that's what we see happen from now on. That would be fabulous. Can you imagine Rodney, Dan, and Joaquin (and maybe Mike and Tyler) on the jury with all women in the F3?! It would be so glorious.

 

And yet ... that's one of the things I love about the show, because, unlike in real life where sexist men go happily along for years, never paying consequences, often totally unaware that they're even being offensive, here we get to watch and wait for that wonderful moment when women vote them out. Snuff. The tribe has spoken.

 

I think if the first ep had ended in Rodney getting voted out it would've been great. But instead the men banded together with one of the women  to vote out the woman who was willing to call out the sexism, so it was just sad. But I am definitely looking forward to the day when all the men get voted out and I really hope it's because all the women band together to oust them. Such fun!

 

As for the Men from Mars, Women from Venus thing - I am not saying it is a universal truth, but I have noticed that, among my friends and relatives, the men give answers and the women start a discussion by giving opinions or asking more questions .  If someone says "what color should I paint the living room?" the men would be likely to say "Blue" or "Green" or "Beige" and  the women would probably say, "well, are you planning on keeping the same furniture?" or "Do you want something trendy, or are you planning on keeping this  color for a long time?" or "My sister painted her house this lovely greige color, and uses orange for accents.  then again, my neighbor's house is north facing like yours and she painted it a very light yellow to brighten it up."  This answers vs opinions thing is not as extreme as " woman don't want to solve problems or that men don't want to discuss things" but is more how women solve problems differently then men do. Then again, it could just mean that none of the men I know care what color the room is painted. 

 

I think it's fine to think about the differences between men and women because there are, indeed, differences. The problem comes in men acting like the differences make women lesser than men, which is definitely what I saw from the BC men in these episodes.

 

He loves Sandra, Cirie, Courtney, etc as much as the rest of us and loved e.g. Lisa Welchel much more than anyone in the audience but me.

 

I, too, loved Lisa. I'm still a little salty she didn't win.

 

The Dan's, Mike's, and Vince's of the world are scarier to me because they are the ones who different people get different vibes off of making it easier for them to appear "safe" even though the language that they use (Mike and Dan) or their attempts to control people (Vince) are scary to a good number of people. 

 

Oh man, this. So much this.

Edited March 20, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[fishcakes]

This week we saw a lizard, a snake, and a hen killed. If I were ever foolish enough to apply for Survivor, never mind appear, I'd like to hope I'd have the foresight to practice some of the necessary skills.

 

They were killed, but not by Shirin. If she went to the trouble of killing animals when she didn't need to simply to practice a skill, then she ought to at least use it when it would be useful.

 

Really, I don't think we're that far apart on this issue, as we both think killing animals for food is acceptable and I presume that you believe as I do, that it should be done in as humane a way as possible. But there have been hundreds of contestants on Survivor and the overwhelming majority of them did not kill anything while on the show, so it's clearly not a necessary skill. I don't believe that Shirin did it in order to make herself better able to survive out there; I think she did it so she could talk about doing it in way that she thinks boosts her status. In a way, it's not so different from the way she claims to be an expert on strategy, yet can't seem to enact it in a way that's useful to anyone including herself.

Edited March 20, 2015 by fishcakes

[Special K]

All this stuff about Shirin is validating my original annoyance that she described herself as "super smart" in her bio.

[Calamity Jane]

I liked that Will had a plan but as soon as he heard Vince was a questionable ally he was able to divorce himself from that plan with no hesitation.  Carolyn also impressed me with her free agency.  That's a survival instinct a lot of players don't have- how many have we seen where someone feels/knows they're in trouble with their alliance but they make no move to preserve themselves and just keep doing the alliance's work for them? 

Boston Rob's whole contingent on that last one he was on.  

I read this as man-eater at first and so needless to say I was very interested in this statement!

 

 

I really hope that's what we see happen from now on. That would be fabulous. Can you imagine Rodney, Dan, and Joaquin (and maybe Mike and Tyler) on the jury with all women in the F3?! It would be so glorious.

 

 

I think if the first ep had ended in Rodney getting voted out it would've been great. But instead the men banded together with one of the women  to vote out the woman who was willing to call out the sexism, so it was just sad. But I am definitely looking forward to the day when all the men get voted out and I really hope it's because all the women band together to oust them. Such fun!

 

 

I think it's fine to think about the differences between men and women because there are, indeed, differences. The problem comes in men acting like the differences make women lesser than men, which is definitely what I saw from the BC men in these episodes.

 

 

I, too, loved Lisa. I'm still a little salty she didn't win.

 

 

Oh man, this. So much this.

Yes to every single thing. 

[Calamity Jane]

Well I feel a bit alienated from the group after reading the thread; I thought it was a good solid couple episodes.  I wouldn't call them 'great' or 'best' but I could see why Jeff might like them--they seemed to me to be season defining episodes.  I felt like I was getting clear who is who and what is what, who is good and who is bad, who I am rooting for and who I am rooting against.  I guess we'll see how it goes, but I feel like the season has a solid base now finally.

 

Rodney, still scary, still awful in every way.  But could I hate Dan the most?  I guess I manage to avoid the Rodneys in life pretty effectively.  But there are Dans hiding around.  I feel like Dan's got that geek misogyny thing going which I encountered a lot in college and is more insidious and far-reaching than Rodney's barely-coherent nonsense.  Like, I don't use the word misogyny lightly--a lot of times I feel like "sexism" is the right word when it's used--but I feel it coming from Dan and his self-satisfied condescension for us women, a sort of disgusting alien race that lives amongst the real human beings, the men.  Dan is like the Reddit of this game.  I can't stand the fucker.  Mike, I feel like, has yes, a gross generalizing 50's-TV-show idea of women, but at least--at least!--he has some kind of sense of how the game works.  He knew not to needle Sierra when she was upset after tribal.  He knew that it was important to get her back.  He knew to just apologize.  I guess it's a sign of how horrible the other two Blue Collar dudes are that he came off looking good in comparison.

 

At any rate, I feel deep in my bones that these are villains being edited as villains, that they are going nowhere in this game except to a highly satisfying takedown.  I do not get, not even slightly, the sense that this is going to be a male-dominated season and that's why Probst likes it.  I find the idea absurd, honestly.  A man could win--maybe Joe, maybe Tyler--but I cannot see any prospect of anything but humiliating loss for these jackasses.  Nobody can get such clear "look at this asshole" editing as Rodney got this week and win the game, not even Russell Hantz, and Rodney is no Russell Hantz.  Nor Dan.  Mike has gotten something of a "red state hero" edit I guess but I can't see him winning either.

 

Personally I found Probst rather OK this episode and I think people might be seeing what they expect to see.  He gave Rodney the business at tribal and seemed genuinely disappointed in their choice to boot Lindsey, like he often does when they vote out a strong dude (a Marcus or whatever.)  His parting words were exactly the kind of "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed at you for FUCKING UP SO COMPLETELY" speech that he gives in those situations.  He didn't seem delighted at the tribal split at all to me; he seemed if anything to be sort of apologizing to the red tribe for the challenge during it.

 

On to better matters: Jenn seems to be the Rob C of this season and I am absolutely loving it.  We'll see how much game she has, but right now I feel like she is killing it, and gets to be the comedy narrator, which is wonderful.  If she wins, which I see as a good possibility, her "winner winner chicken dinner" will make quite the million-dollar quote.  I would like to see her, Will, Joe, and Hali dominate this game.  I don't see any way they don't all make the merge, so it could work.  I want to see Sierra stick it to her horrible tribemates, I'd like to see Kelly break the Wigelsworth Curse and be a factor.  Carolyn was not terribly annoying this time, though I don't know if her choice was a good one (I was happy with it, though, because I like the No Collars and I like Shirin better than Max.  I feel like Max probably prompted Shirin's showing off her Survivor knowledge.  Max is like an even worse Cochran in spouting Survivor trivia!  I'm a Survivor nerd too Max, but I don't talk about that shit outside this board, because I know it won't go over with most people.  And I'm not playing for a million bucks.)

 

I am hopeful.  I feel good about that hope.  I think the shitheads are going to lose, and someone good (according to me) is going to win.

 

 

That was shitty of him indeed, the gloating card thing.

 

 

When they tried to do that you still got people screaming OMG THERE WERE TWOOOO BOWLLLLS IT'S SO RIGGED To me it's obvious that it's random when these crazy splits happen.  And I do not believe this is anything like as bad as Caramoan's post-swap split was.

 

 

Is that a spoiler?  Anyway Probst loved most of those seasons and called out Rodney; I don't think he's as bad as people are making him out to be, honestly.  I think Probst is sexist in a certain way.  He's a sports guy, essentially.  He likes Survivor as a physical sport.  He thinks men are generally better atheletes than women, ergo he thinks men are better than women.  But it's much more subtle than WHOO YEAH RODNEY AND DAN ARE TELLIN IT LIKE IT IS or whatever.  Probst has had a lot of women he's liked as characters, more than even he realizes, I think.  He loves Sandra, Cirie, Courtney, etc as much as the rest of us and loved e.g. Lisa Welchel much more than anyone in the audience but me.  A lot of times he thinks that the audience is worse than it is, which leads him to make bad assumptions about what is going to make good TV, and that's a big issue, but somewhat different from his personal feelings.  Like I think he liked Kim and Denise but thought the audience was going to hate them and was surprised they didn't.

 

I definitely don't think that the sexist comments from the assholes were the reason he thought this was a good episode.  He seemed shocked at Rodney and even more that Rodney was kept around.  I think these guys are headed for a big fall and that's great TV to him, easily hateable villains who go down hard.  I think it's much better to show these assholes as assholes than to edit out the sexism and present them as good red-blooded American men as you can tell he was expecting to treat the Blue Collar tribe.

Agree to all this!  

[Andromeda]

I agree that there are two different styles of listening, and I use them all the time.  If someone comes to me with a problem I will try to come up with some suggestion to help.  If they shoot that down, I'll try another idea.  If they shoot down three ideas then I accept that they don't want me to help, they just need to vent -- and often to demonstrate that their problem is so enormous and intellectually complex that no one can solve it.  From then on, I'll never offer that person suggestions again, just listen and be there for them.  People who do want to find a solution, we'll talk about it together.  So how I listen depends on my experiences with the individual I'm listening to.  Not once in my life has this been gender-driven. One listening style could be called active and the other passive, but I've never seen a gender pattern.  I'm guessing Dan still sees women as passive.  Jeez, dude, pick up a newspaper.

Reminds me of the early days of my marriage, where yes, my husband tried to "solve" things when I just wanted to vent. He knows now he's just there to listen unless I need help. But the reverse is also true, and I don't hesitate to offer plans of action to anyone who comes to me for help, if I think that's what they're seeking. Like you, I figure out if they're not really seeking advice but just want to vent fairly early on (my sister being a perfect example when she had marital problems -- she didn't really want to visit a divorce lawyer, she just wanted to talk for two hours.)

 

Since that was fairly off-topic, back to the show!

 

I hated how the guys treated that little itty bitty harmless snake, like they were Conan (which guy was it?). Same with the scorpion. Do they really think they're impressing someone with their warrior prowess on these tiny little creatures around their camp?

 

As for killing rabbits, I actually kind of agree with Shirrin, that it's a useful skill before going on survivor -- learning to slaughter and field dress an animal. I've never done it. I also think every chef should know how to break down animals, if not actually kill them. (so many fails on Hell's Kitchen).

[Donny Ketchum]

Agree with Hincandenza that the problem isn't always gender.  That's probably why I disliked "Women from Venus,etc."  My father is an artist, my brother an artist and a gourmet cook, call either one to ask what color to paint the living room or what herb to use with lamb and you'd better be prepared to hold the phone for 45 minutes. Many of the women I know who are most vocal with outrage over male sexism are the first ones to take it for granted that the man will be taking out the garbage and fixing the car. Yes, some men do leave the toilet seat up, but almost every woman I know leaves the toilet lid up letting all those sewer gases into my home. Dan and Mike were just plain unkind to Sierra, no one wants every mistake in every challenge thrown in their face.  As my mother, the ax wielding gardener used to say, "Why can't people just be nice to each other?"

If not for the things Dan, Mike, and Rodney said in their confessionals, I'd agree with you that gender wasn't the problem in their treatment of Sierra.  But because of them, I have to think it at least partly was.

[ennui]

Probst's look of disdainful ennui was truly epic.

*cough*

<----------

[Village]

God, I'm pissed about the way the tribes were distributed. A bunch of dudebros on one team. Infuriating.

[Hera]

Is this the first three-tribe season to see all three tribes go to Tribal Council at least once before dropping down to two?  Philippines only had one tribe go all four weeks before they went down to two, and Cagayan had two tribes go -- one tribe one week, and the other tribe the other three weeks.  So is this the first one in which all three went in consecutive weeks?

I believe so. I'm really excited to be wrong in my prediction from that No Collar would lose again. I'm also excited because, unlike the past two three tribe seasons, if they merge at 12, then none of the original tribes will be going in with six. This means that if Blue Collar—who currently have the largest number of players left—want to vote along the lines of their original tribe, they need two people to flip to them, which is much harder than getting one person. But it looks like both Blue Collar and White Collar had some serious divisions.

 

Of the three original tribes, I see No Collar potentially sticking together after the merge, but even then, they still need three people to make up the numbers after the merge. And if those three people are smart (debatable, especially if any of those people are Dan or Rodney), they'll be extremely cautious about working with four people who were on the same tribe originally. And of course, No Collar might not actually be unified—I have no idea what Will is thinking in terms of strategy and who knows what promises Joe might have to make in order to get by on the new Escameca?

 

I actually think that voting Max out won't make any difference at all regarding challenges.  Many comments mentioned voting out their one strong male-but that's exactly it.  He wasn't going to make a huge difference for them.  Also, I think those left on the red tribe at the merge will have the advantage as they may be recruited by others to vote out other targets.  I love the new tribes and their interactions.

I agree with all of this. People often assume that on Survivor, a tribe is only as strong as its weakest member, but it's often the case that they're as strong as their strongest member. Getting rid of your weakest player doesn't help you if your strongest player is still not as strong as the strongest player on the other tribe(s). Plus, once you sign on to the idea that the "weakest" player should be eliminated, you sign on to the idea that you should be eliminated once everyone weaker than you has gone. This is alright for the two or three players who are perceived to be the strongest, but a terrible idea for everyone else to go along with. And anyway, it's now close enough to the merge that getting rid of non-allies who might win individual immunity should be the priority for people who have solid alliances.

 

I think Max and his Survivor Bride are a good lesson in how over-intellectualizing the game completely misses the point of it. Swallowing a textbook on something doesn't make you any good at it. Survivor is about being able to think on your feet and react to a unique situation presented to you, not endlessly comparing it to previous versions. Oh yeah. And fucking LISTENING, Max and Shirin. Listening. Not talking.

Bingo. I also think what people miss is that you have to play your game. I love Sandra, but could never play like her, because no one would buy it. I don't come across as particularly straight-talking the way she does and I know I can't lie as convincingly. Similarly, while I'd love to imagine that I could play Kim's game, I doubt I could juggle so many people and potential sub-alliances without accidentally revealing my real pecking order and seriously alienating someone. I'd have to figure out my own game that uses my strengths and minimizes my weaknesses, and so does everyone else. Past seasons can help you get a feel for how things work (possible twists, when the merge happens, where to look for idols, etc.) and how people generally react to certain situations, but they won't be informative for what players should do in the particular circumstances they find themselves in. No one in Rob's alliance in Redemption Island made a move against him, and they all lost. On the other hand, Sophie in South Pacific never made a move against Coach (and actively discouraged one of her allies who wanted to flip from doing it) and she won.

 

I'm a meat-eater, so I have no issue in general with slaughtering animals for food, but I don't like that Shirin killed a chicken and a rabbit simply in order to practice killing.

That threw me, too. I wouldn't go as far as Joaquin did and call her a psychopath for it, but I agree that it's over-the-top and unnecessary, especially in the case of the rabbit. I remember Natalie White killing a rat and eating it in Samoa, but that's the only time I've seen someone on Survivor kill and eat a mammal. It doesn't come up often enough for it to be a skill worth learning, in my opinion. And anyway, why would you prioritize that and over learning how to start a fire without matches or flint? Shirin could have bought herself a ton of good-will on Day 1 if she had done what Joe did to prepare.

 

Anyway Probst loved most of those seasons and called out Rodney; I don't think he's as bad as people are making him out to be, honestly.  I think Probst is sexist in a certain way.  He's a sports guy, essentially.  He likes Survivor as a physical sport.  He thinks men are generally better atheletes than women, ergo he thinks men are better than women.  But it's much more subtle than WHOO YEAH RODNEY AND DAN ARE TELLIN IT LIKE IT IS or whatever.  Probst has had a lot of women he's liked as characters, more than even he realizes, I think.  He loves Sandra, Cirie, Courtney, etc as much as the rest of us and loved e.g. Lisa Welchel much more than anyone in the audience but me.  A lot of times he thinks that the audience is worse than it is, which leads him to make bad assumptions about what is going to make good TV, and that's a big issue, but somewhat different from his personal feelings.  Like I think he liked Kim and Denise but thought the audience was going to hate them and was surprised they didn't.

 

I definitely don't think that the sexist comments from the assholes were the reason he thought this was a good episode.  He seemed shocked at Rodney and even more that Rodney was kept around.  I think these guys are headed for a big fall and that's great TV to him, easily hateable villains who go down hard.  I think it's much better to show these assholes as assholes than to edit out the sexism and present them as good red-blooded American men as you can tell he was expecting to treat the Blue Collar tribe.

I agree. Jeff's favorites each season might disproportionately be brawny men (and while that type of player is not my favorite, I actually don't mind that Jeff has that preference), but I don't think that prevents him from appreciating good players who are women, nor do I think he would necessarily love Rodney's statements about women, assuming he could even understand what Rodney was trying to say in the first place. He's a producer of the show and wants it to be entertaining, so I doubt he was thrilled with the split of players after the tribal swap. In fact, since he likes the sport aspect of Survivor, I'd guess that it would be more annoying for him to have all the athletic people on the same tribe, since they aren't going to be competing against each other.

 

Speaking of Jeff, I really enjoyed his parting shot to the tribe/Shirin once Max got voted out, "Well if blindsides do indeed bring more tribal unity, then you guys should be one very tight group." If you're going to talk a lot of self-aggrandizing shit at Tribal Council about how blindsides are necessary and help unify the group by getting rid of the one who doesn't belong, then you deserve to get that thrown back in your face.

[North of Eden]

Totally unfair. They need to revamp tribe swapping so you dont get these lopsided teams. In other news Benn still sucks as a human being.

[hincandenza]

I've been seeing people gripe about the team makeup post-swap, and I guess I don't get it. It seems your beef is with God, or at least a God who contrary to Einstein does in fact "play dice with the universe".  This is how randomness works: some times, all of one arbitrary group ends up in the same place.  Picking new teams that way is fair: it doesn't reward or penalize anyone for past challenge success/failures, or existing alliances, or physical/mental/social abilities, or personal preference.

 

The complaint should be towards designing team and individual challenges where physical strength (or all-swimming challenges, in the case of Ozzy on "Cook Islands") isn't effectively the sole determination of success.  Ideally, the team challenges should be balanced, so each segment is fairly difficult in different ways- physical, puzzles, cooperation, etc- and you don't win the challenge entirely on one leg then coast through the rest.  I'm not sure how it was edited, but it looks like Dan went literally 7/7 with at least one double-pot smash on a single throw; even if Nagarote had been only 10 seconds behind Escameca, I don't see how they could have made up ground on what was a very linear and idiot-proof (after all, Dan did excel at it) final part of the challenge.

 

The first challenge this season was much more balanced in that regard, and the puzzle options made it even better; I don't know why they stopped that innovation, other than cost/complexity.  We saw in that first episode that the White Collar tribe I believe reached the puzzle pieces first or a close second, then fell far back and lost Reward/Immunity because they had picked a puzzle they couldn't solve.  That to me is the sign of a well designed challenge: the teams swapping places during and at the end.

 

Although in Escameca's defense, while it likely wouldn't have affected the outcome, it was kind of embarrassing that it wasn't until the third group in Nagarote was on their way back from dropping off the pots that a teammate (Jenn?) finally yelled "BOTH of you should pull the sled!" because yes: up until then, there seemed to be a lot of "Uh, I'll help... supervise the pots" going on in Nagarote. :)

[enlightenedbum]

Or they could do the good old schoolyard pick, or at least guarantee gender equity, both things they've done in the past.

[Kromm]

I agree. Jeff's favorites each season might disproportionately be brawny men (and while that type of player is not my favorite, I actually don't mind that Jeff has that preference), but I don't think that prevents him from appreciating good players who are women, 

I dunno.  I always have trouble getting over Probst's total disrespect for Kim Spradlin.  He eventually reluctantly made some comments about her game being good, but it sounded like someone had coached him it wasn't a good idea to overtly disrespect her.  And it's a lot of intangibles about how he talks about the game and the people in it that also give a feel of his preferences.  And I don't think they're actually always brawny men. They're just MEN.  For example, here he is last month talking about his current faves.  He's not comprehensive, and off-hand mentions Parvati (but not as a fave of his necessarily, but just as "a winner" people might consider one of the best), but he does eventually zero in on Cochran as a winner, and Spencer and Rob Cesternino as non-winners as some of his "current" faves.  So... not burly men.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Kromm

[kikaha]

Kromm, I just read the article you linked, and have a slightly different read of Jeff.  I think what excites him most are social/physical/categorical divisions, that (in come cases) have lead to great drama, tension and action on the show.  Look at his favorite seasons: Brains, Brawn, Beauty... and Heroes v Villains.  He also likes FvF and the current collars theme.  All pit various groups against each other.  Jeff thinks that creates more crisis/confrontation and great Survivor TV.  (I don't entirely agree with him: my own favorite season is Survivor Philippines, that Denise won.) 

 

A woman won HvV and FvF.  The women look like favorites to me at this point of this season.  Yet these are all fantastic seasons in Jeff's eye.  So I'm not so sure gender is all that important to him.  Even if he has a bit of crush for he-men players, he also calls Cochran the best winner, and in the past has called Parvati the best PLAYER ever.  I think he likes underdogs -- people who seem to surpass all expectations and 'overachieve' their way deep into the game.  Jeff loves Cirie, e.g., who on paper looks like she could go home first, but proved herself one of the top players ever. 

 

Jeff's alleged sexism is WAY overblown IMO. 

 

ETA: I never saw Jeff's disrespect for Kim.  He's repeatedly called her one of the all-time greats, in print, in interviews, to her personally.  He did say her season was not exciting.  And I see his point.  After Kim took control -- right about merge -- there were no real surprises, blindsides or backstabbing.  Everything pretty well unfolded according to her plan.  A masterful performance, that I as a fan enjoyed watching, but mostly to see if the heir apparent could in fact assume the thrown.   

Edited March 21, 2015 by kikaha

[SlackerInc]

Kimberstormer, there was a lot in your long post that I really loved, but I couldn't add to the chorus of "likes" because I stubbornly disagree with you (and apparently everyone) about Max.

 

And speaking of stubborn iconoclasm: I just want to say again that I continue to find Kim the most overrated player ever.  No way she wins if she doesn't play with a bunch of passive sheeple with room-temp IQs (and yes, same is true of Boston Rob).

Edited March 21, 2015 by SlackerInc

[Kromm]

I dunno. It's hard to be overrated when very few people talk about you (either negatively or positively).  It's only once in a blue moon that, on boards like this, talk turns to Kim.

 

As for Rob?  I really think it depends on what style of play you value.  Actually maybe this is the same question as with Kim, sans the issue of if people even mention her enough to be overrated.  With both Rob and Kim, it was about a force of personality strong enough that people just jumped in line.  But both games also took a lot of spadework, making sure people really WERE in line without freaking them out or alienating them.  A lot of that spadework didn't make air, I've always bet, because continuous shots of Rob or Kim going back and shmoozing their people over and over again to keep them happy and in line didn't make for good TV.  There's also the element of maintaining multiple alliances without people twigging to the fact that somebody is getting lied to and it may be them.  Rob and Kim in their winning seasons had multiple people who assumed/were fooled into thinking they were the core alliance/partner and were wrong. Doing that and not getting caught out is a skill, a big one, so Rob and Kim both deserve lauds for that (because both seasons played out similarly in that regard).  

[Haleth]

Plus Rob had the additional disadvantage of people knowing exactly who he was and how he played, yet they all fell for it anyway.  Idiots.

[marys1000]

I don't watch other reality tv but Survivor at least has certainly developed what seems to be a very tight knit chummy group of alumni who can, if they want, leverage their alumni status to continue on as a reality tv personality to less or greater extent.  I  think that a mega fan like Max wants to win a million but even more so  wants to be a memorable Survivor personality, someone to remember and be on the show and most of all  be a member of the club.   I think that clouded his game play. 

Re Max, in his exit interview he said he thought he was in a super tight alliance with Carolyn.  But when he got Joaquin and So to write her name down as the decoy for the blindside she got really mad and from then on was after him but he didn't realize to what extent. 
So Carolyn.........was playing GRUDGE Survivor as much as anything when she choose Max over Shirinn (according to Max but I think there might be some truth there). 

 

Speaking of Joaquin, Max said it was his strategy to do everything he could to marginalize Joaquin so he couldn't worm his way back into an alliance after So left.  Part of that was using Shirinn to antagonize him to blow his cool and keep him off balance. Well now he has new alliance possibilities...........Rodney being prime.  Joaquin has a blue collar background, is really just a blue collar "boy":) from Long Island and I suspect knows and understands and maybe is sympatico with the Rodney's of the world.  If this keeps Rodney around I will be super pissed.  

 

Not sure where Tyler fits into all of this, Max did say he was super smart and a threat. 

In his exit interview Max is pretty upfront about his game misfires although he still seems a bit egotistical.  Still he had proactive actions going on and reasons for what he was doing and did have a game, some of which sounded good but he didn't seem to be able to think his ideas through to some of the consequences.  He really wanted Joe gone as the biggest threat in the end.  But he figured he would have to take out his alliance first starting with Will.  Good thought, got blindsided by his misread of Carolyn though. 

Lindsey said in her interview that Rodney was 24/7 non stop yammering about "hating kids, hating women, hating gays and anyone not like himself" that she just couldn't stand it anymore.  She considers herself as someone with a strong moral core.  That by keeping quiet and letting that bigotry go unchallenged she was doing all those people a disservice and doing something personally unethical or not true to herself, or something to that effect.  The god and fire comment was just a way of saying - hey we have been doing work by building and tending fire it's not just happening by itself.   Really poor example or word choice to point that out, used to dramatic effect by the producers.  She seems to like Max and thinks he has a good chance at winning. 

I also think Lindsay sounds like being sleep deprived and hungry, more than others who are in the same boat, really affected her ability to temper herself.   Being able to cope with that is a sort of Survivor skill that people only have so much control of.  Max said Carolyn has some sort of crazed mad energy where she would stay up all night tending fire, not eat and still had energy to spare.  

IDK if its fair or not but I'm disappointed in Max and Kelly.  I think they could have at the very least done more to shut Rodney up or better gotten rid of him.  Kelly in particular is playing the game by being low key but I understand Lindsey's reaction to that sort of all over bigotry more. 

 

I need brain bleach or some sort of erase function for Max's warty foot.  That was disgusting and I am apparently in the minority that I would not be happy drinking water out of that pot boiled or not.  Yecch.  Btw than and pooping in the water....IDK I never thought of myself as particularly squeamish about dirt etc. . 

Hali's comments re Max's foot - Max could have refused to put his fee in the pot and asked for someone to urinate on his foot instead. 

 

Not all alpha hens go the full alpha and quit laying.  But really that is a lot to know about chickens.  Most people (All adults?  No?  Really?)  know that roosters make noise, don't lay and eat food.  To not eat the rooster first was just plain stupid.  (Jeff specifically said "laying" chickens).  

 

Re someone's post up thread; Yes I remember being aghast by Malcolm's remark but....a man saying, "hey I'm going to use my good looking maleness and charm" to get over on the women contestants is no different than Parvo's sex kitten approach (which I hated),  I'm more than half convinced she slept her way to the top (James?).  Something I don't think we have to worry about Rodney doing LOL!

 

The males of the Blue Collar group are making Blue Collar's everywhere look bad, thank you Jeff Probst.  Don't tell me that Blue Collars are all bigoted brawn.  You need brains to properly construct things, be a good plumber, electrician, seamstress, hair stylist etc. And I know plenty of blue collars that aren't bigots.   And Joaquin's comments are just laughable since his family is blue collar and he is such a baby in his first just out of college white collar job.  

I really really can't stand the Rodney's and Dans (and Joaquins?)  of the world.  They will always cock block women, gays, minorities  and anyone else not like them in job settings, conversations and any and every opportunity they get.  They will complain about equal opportunity as the reason they don't get promoted. Sexual harrassment is just a tool for women to lie about being raped to screw a man.   A contractor like Rodney will blow off any woman's requirements because he doesn't really listen to women,  or complaints about his work.  They will unfortunately all stick together in an alliance and that is really making me sad for this season.  In my opinion they are far more numerous out there and dangerous to women, gays, minorities than the Vince's of the world.  I want Rodney and Dan gone 3 episodes ago.  I'm  with Lindsay, they may be perfect goats but it's just unconscionable to keep them around.  Its also sad to think of them as part of the Survivor alumni chummy club.  And from what I hear they are all quite close now. 

I would love to see Max join Sierra and Tyler and turn on those two.

 

Was it Lindsey's exit interview where the interviewer said something about the season not quite living up to Probst's hype and she? said wait, it gets better. 

Edited March 21, 2015 by marys1000

[BigRedCheese]

 

I never saw Jeff's disrespect for Kim.  He's repeatedly called her one of the all-time greats, in print, in interviews, to her personally.  He did say her season was not exciting.

 

I guess it's more in his over respect for BR, he gushed like Niagra Falls over BR's winning season, and yeah, he did have to do a lot of work at the beginning to whittle the group down to people that seemed to be there to help him win, but once he was there, it was like watching grass grow. I thought her win was a lot more compelling to watch than BR's, and she did it on her first try, and not as a celebrity, which is more impressive. 

[Kromm]

I guess it's more in his over respect for BR, he gushed like Niagra Falls over BR's winning season, and yeah, he did have to do a lot of work at the beginning to whittle the group down to people that seemed to be there to help him win, but once he was there, it was like watching grass grow. I thought her win was a lot more compelling to watch than BR's, and she did it on her first try, and not as a celebrity, which is more impressive. 

Right.  She very much played the exact same kind of game as him, without the advantage of the cult of celebrity (where people followed him because they worshiped him as a Survivor Icon), albeit also without the automatic disadvantage of a few players specifically targeting you as a returnee.

I don't watch other reality tv but Survivor at least has certainly developed what seems to be a very tight knit chummy group of alumni who can, if they want, leverage their alumni status to continue on as a reality tv personality to less or greater extent.  I  think that a mega fan like Max wants to win a million but even more so  wants to be a memorable Survivor personality, someone to remember and be on the show and most of all  be a member of the club.   I think that clouded his game play. 

And this is why, for me at least, Max can go fuck himself.  He wanted the payout, but without putting in the right kind of work.  He wants to live in this world where being a reality star is more important than playing the game, and reap the benefits of that, but resorted to stupid manipulations and pure ego to try and do so.

[needschocolate]

I think Probst, above all else, is a producer of Survivor.  His primary concern is to get people to tune in.  So he says every season is the best one (who, but the biggest fans, would watch a season the host calls mediocre?) and any episode that has something different happen (medical comes in, someone is blindisided, someone does something that offends some of the others, there is a big argument, gets hyped as a highlight episode.  It also explains rather liberal use of "blindsided" - if the vote was a surprise to anyone, then encourage the audience to remember it as a blindside.  He also has to "create" excitement where he can - asking leading questions and making insightful (maybe that should be incite-ful?) comments at TC, or spouting things at challenges that may help the losing tribe catch up a bit (all those comments that make the tried ant true fans say "Shut up, Probst").  Of course, his favorite players will be the players that did something memorable or gave funny talking heads - those are the players that helped the ratings and made him money.

[Guest]

I liked Kim fine and enjoyed her season and her win, but no moreso than many other players.  In that respect, I feel like Jeff gives her MORE respect than I do.  I agree with those who say his biases are way overblown here.  

[PreBabylonia]

I agree that there are two different styles of listening, and I use them all the time.  If someone comes to me with a problem I will try to come up with some suggestion to help.  If they shoot that down, I'll try another idea.  If they shoot down three ideas then I accept that they don't want me to help, they just need to vent -- and often to demonstrate that their problem is so enormous and intellectually complex that no one can solve it.  From then on, I'll never offer that person suggestions again, just listen and be there for them.  People who do want to find a solution, we'll talk about it together.  So how I listen depends on my experiences with the individual I'm listening to.  Not once in my life has this been gender-driven. One listening style could be called active and the other passive, but I've never seen a gender pattern.  I'm guessing Dan still sees women as passive.  Jeez, dude, pick up a newspaper.

My theory is that almost all people have the solution to their problems in their own unconscious mind, yet they need active listening to trigger it into their conscious self. If I'm right, then it's almost always better to just listen and let it come out. Not to mention that it also builds up their own selfconfidence and spurs them into putting plans into action. That said, my own tendency is to jump ahead and guess what they're trying to say and yes, throw suggestions at them. So I definitely don't fit into the narrow stereotypes all three of those "men" (little boys) like to proclaim within their frat bunch.

[PreBabylonia]

Totally unfair. They need to revamp tribe swapping so you dont get these lopsided teams. In other news Benn still sucks as a human being.

 

Who's Benn? I don't know if I'm being very forgetful here, but I just can't remember anyone by that name. Were you possibly referring to Rodney?

 

I guess it's more in his over respect for BR, he gushed like Niagra Falls over BR's winning season, and yeah, he did have to do a lot of work at the beginning to whittle the group down to people that seemed to be there to help him win, but once he was there, it was like watching grass grow. I thought her win was a lot more compelling to watch than BR's, and she did it on her first try, and not as a celebrity, which is more impressive. 

 I was not a fan of Boston Rob in his first two appearances, but by the third one, I grudgingly became one. Not only did he have the physical and mental smarts to build a better shelter and display a good work ethic, but this time I saw his charm and sense of fun. I recall reading that other survivors talked about the games and other things he came up with to keep them entertained. Boredom is apparently worse than the lack of food and poor sleep, and he helped them to deal with it. I was actively rooting for him to win during that last time, although I agree that it was somewhat predictable and boring. The play that is, not BR himself. I was amazed at the control he maintained over his tribemates. It was completely fascinating. Saw the same thing when Rob and Amber competed on The Amazing Race. Managed to persuade other teams to also refuse a task and take a time penalty. That left them in the game when normally, they would have been out.

On the other hand, Kim, may be a great strategizer, but I found her to be completely boring. It wasn't just the play. She was completely dull to watch or listen to, and that lack of charm ruined the season for me. I love it when women win, but they're not all going to entertain or fulfill me. I was gratified to see Natalie win over Russell (due to her far superior social game not to mention her physical toughness, for some reason that's always discounted when people fluff off her win over the Hantz) and ecstatic  when Denise won, but Kim left me cold. This season though, I'd be happy to see Jenn or Carolyn win.

[Guest]

Rob at least thought outside the box.  I hated his 'buddy system' because I wanted an exciting season not his easy saunter to the win, but it was genius and no one had done it before or has since.  I think he's an excellent player and I enjoy watching him, but I'd enjoy it a lot more if he had some competition that season.  

 

About this season-- When they did the tribe swap last season I think they gave each of the three original tribes a bag with half of each new Buff color inside, so there couldn't possibly be a 'mostly intact' original tribe after the swap.  I wonder why they didn't do that this time.  

[ratgirlagogo]

From the Probst interview with Dalton Ross linked above:  And we do a new twist that’s taking the game to another level. It is jumping the shark, as we’ve done so may times, and pushing the envelope. And it’s interesting how it plays out.

What the fuck?  What do those three cliches even mean?  I imagine this twist must require the services of a player who's not there to make friends.

I dunno. It's hard to be overrated when very few people talk about you (either negatively or positively).  It's only once in a blue moon that, on boards like this, talk turns to Kim.

And on the finale/reunion Jeff talked more about Colton and Tarzan/Troyzan than he did to her.  Kim's game is up there with Yul's to me, who I think is the only other winner who had a HII and never played it. And she won fan favorite, which I think took Jeff off guard.    I don't think Yul is a great favorite of Jeff's either as far as that goes - even though he's a producer and been there for every season, Jeff JUST DOES NOT GET that it's a social game, not a physical game.  Jesus, that's how Richard Hatch won the first damned season.  Of course a management consultant (Yul) and a bridal shop owner (Kim) would be good at massaging difficult personalities - in jobs like that you always have to get the client to believe that YOUR idea is actually THEIR idea.  

[enlightenedbum]

Probst hates Yul because Yul's smarter than him by a gigantic margin.  And doesn't even have the courtesy to be a pasty nerd.

[LadyChatts]

I feel like you can only jump that shark one too many times before people say enough.  I don't know what this twist is, though I've seen ideas elsewhere online.  If it's any of those, then yeah, it'll just be another stupid lame twist that either royally screws someone and probably benefits one of Probst's man crushes this season.

 

In regards to Yul, Ozzy was my favorite to win and I still would have loved to have seen a win for him.  But I think Yul played a good game that deserved the win, and I do find his victory underrated.  He's someone I've always wanted to see return years later just to see how he'd play a second go round.  Was Cook Islands that last season where contestants could play the idol after the vote was read?  I always figured that's why Yul got lucky never having to use it.

Edited March 21, 2015 by LadyChatts

[kikaha]

Shoot, I thought you can only jump the shark once -- after that, it's all down hill, with no recovery possible. 

 

I read that Lindsey says something real exciting is coming soon.  Jeff indicates the same, with his slightly mixed-up metaphors.  Hopefully this season is about to kick into a higher gear. 

[enlightenedbum]

 

Was Cook Islands that last season where contestants could play the idol after the vote was read?  I always figured that's why Yul got lucky never having to use it.

Yeah, but he leveraged it awesomely to give himself the majority.  Though it helped he was up against a bunch of social bullies and immature morons (whatever you think of Parvati later, she was an immature moron that season).

[KimberStormer]

Kimberstormer, there was a lot in your long post that I really loved, but I couldn't add to the chorus of "likes" because I stubbornly disagree with you (and apparently everyone) about Max.

 

And speaking of stubborn iconoclasm: I just want to say again that I continue to find Kim the most overrated player ever.  No way she wins if she doesn't play with a bunch of passive sheeple with room-temp IQs (and yes, same is true of Boston Rob).

 

Haha that's OK, no harm done.  I don't dislike Max as much as some, but I think the loser edit worked on me this time.

 

However you are crazy about Kim. (Although I feel similarly about Yul, who won via Ozzy's challenge dominance and a bunch of completely terrible producer decisions/mistakes: the overpowered idol, the bottle twist, and the final 3.  Plus I just don't like him.)

[Dobian]

I'm glad to see Survivor living up to its safety standards on these challenges.  Good thing they have everyone sign those liability waivers.  Dan is such an imbecile, and and watching his ridiculous non-apology to Sierra backfire was great fun.  I picked Carolyn to win it on day one and my money is still on her.  Let's see if she can keep playing it smart to the final merge.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Dobian

[peachmangosteen]

What the fuck?  What do those three cliches even mean?  I imagine this twist must require the services of a player who's not there to make friends.

 

LOL! 

 

Plus I just don't like him.

 

Oh man, this please me greatly. I thought I was the only one who didn't like Yul. But then I also hated Ozzy. I preferred Becky and Sundra, which I'm sure is super surprising to anyone who reads my posts lol.

Edited March 21, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Donny Ketchum]

I thought I was the only one who didn't like Yul. But then I also hated Ozzy. I preferred Becky and Sundra, which I'm sure is super surprising to anyone who reads my posts lol.

I don't know what was to dislike about Yul.  Ozzy, sure, but not Yul.  But yeah, I, too, preferred Becky and Sundra to both of them.

[peachmangosteen]

Maybe disliking Yul is too strong for me to say; I just didn't care about him. If it hadn't been for Sundra and Becky I wouldn't have cared about Ozzy or Yul at all.