Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, Natalie68 said:

So they took her to Chuck E Cheese but did they FEED her at Chuck E Cheese?  

Only if they got it for free.  Otherwise, Jill and David probably let her watch while they ate.  Same as at home.

[Heathen]

51 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Janessa turned 1 in April.  We can only hope that Jill's fertility is declining now that she's over 40.

Reading the Fundie Wiki page about the Noyes family made me wonder if Jill does something to enhance her fertility. A low dose of Clomid, maybe? Frequent ovulation testing? Her mother had four; sisters have five, six (pre-SEVERE paralysis), and eight. Jill and her 13 plus MULTIPLE, SEVERE miscarriages is the outlier.

I also noticed that Jill's parents and sisters look typical. Her sisters Angie and (poor paralyzed) Amy look like they could be David's sisters, with their dark hair and dark complexions, more than Jill's. Jill is the only one in her family of origin who looks like a stripper. 

[Luvmy300zx]

I wonder where the fundies  like JillR get the idea to pile on so much make up and that Biblically it is ok. The fundies around here that wear the long dresses and have the long hair wear no make up at all. I've never seen any of the overly made up ones in person.

[galaxychaser]

Imagine how much Plexus is swimming in poor Janessa system! 

Maybe Plexus helps ovulation? Who knows. Jill birthed 13 kids into life of misery and poverty and starvation. 

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Heathen said:

Reading the Fundie Wiki page about the Noyes family made me wonder if Jill does something to enhance her fertility. A low dose of Clomid, maybe? Frequent ovulation testing? Her mother had four; sisters have five, six (pre-SEVERE paralysis), and eight. Jill and her 13 plus MULTIPLE, SEVERE miscarriages is the outlier.

I also noticed that Jill's parents and sisters look typical. Her sisters Angie and (poor paralyzed) Amy look like they could be David's sisters, with their dark hair and dark complexions, more than Jill's. Jill is the only one in her family of origin who looks like a stripper. 

I definitely think there's a difference between trying to reproduce and just letting it happen. If JillR and Mr R are planning sex during ovulation and her sisters are leaving it up to chance, or even having an occasional headache, then JillR is going to win the baby making race.

I also believe clomid increases the chance of multiples and JillR only has singletons. 

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

Someone posted their wedding picture a while back. He wasn't that bad looking. Sort of like Kody Brown. They did not age well. Well, Kody would not look bad if he cut that mess of hair he has. David would need more work.

Yes plastic surgery work! 

[ginger90]

Wedding picture:

[LilJen]

On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 6:50 PM, ginger90 said:

6 pictures:

Anyone else having thoughts of Dr Seuss's Sneetches? With the "stars on thars"? Just me? <slinks over to the prayer closet>

[JoanArc]

I'm not sure any child with complete callosal agenesis can be described as doing ok. The grifting wont ever end.

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Wedding picture:

Jill looks skeletal, and damm did David pack on the pounds. 

[LilJen]

4 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

I'm not sure any child with complete callosal agenesis can be described as doing ok. The grifting wont ever end.

No way does that kid have complete agenesis of the corpus callosum. If she did, she would not be walking or sitting, at least not at this point. I knew a kid who had it who didn't walk until age 4. I think Jill went overdramatic on the possible TERRIBLE SEVERE diagnosis she got while Janessa was in the womb.

[PradaKitty]

They both look frightening. 

Then and now.

[Temperance]

4 hours ago, Heathen said:

Reading the Fundie Wiki page about the Noyes family made me wonder if Jill does something to enhance her fertility. A low dose of Clomid, maybe? Frequent ovulation testing? Her mother had four; sisters have five, six (pre-SEVERE paralysis), and eight. Jill and her 13 plus MULTIPLE, SEVERE miscarriages is the outlier.

Jill's parents are lousy hypocrites. They chose to limit their family size to four children. Later in life they decided this was morally wrong and became enamoured with "quiverfull" ideology and spread this ideology to their children.

Her sisters may not be as "blessed" as Jill, but I'm not sure why.  It's definitely possible that Jill's older sister with five children decided to stop there. (I've known fundies in real life who did that.) Her sister Amy who has 6 kids was still having children when she had the accident. Her sister Angie has 8 kids and seems to be quiverfull.  The information is incomplete on fundie wiki, but it seems likely that Jill was significantly younger than her sisters when she got married and that may also contribute to her having a larger family. 

[Normades]

4 hours ago, galaxychaser said:

Imagine how much Plexus is swimming in poor Janessa system! 

Maybe Plexus helps ovulation? Who knows. Jill birthed 13 kids into life of misery and poverty and starvation. 

Of course Plexus helps with ovulation!!!!  It also helps with birth control, if that's what you want.  If you want to be 5'7" blonde and 21, just drink some Plexus!!  And Jilly can help you get some for a low, low price!!

[farmgal4]

1 hour ago, LilJen said:

No way does that kid have complete agenesis of the corpus callosum. If she did, she would not be walking or sitting, at least not at this point. I knew a kid who had it who didn't walk until age 4. I think Jill went overdramatic on the possible TERRIBLE SEVERE diagnosis she got while Janessa was in the womb.

I think she flat out lied about Janessa.  That way it would look like that God had miraculously made her much better than the doctors predicted.  I’m not saying that the child has no health problems.  It’s easy to see that all 13 children have a health problem (malnutrition and everything that goes along with that), but I don’t think Janessa’s is nearly as serious as Jill made it out to be.  JMO

[sleepysuzy]

11 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I think she flat out lied about Janessa.  That way it would look like that God had miraculously made her much better than the doctors predicted.  I’m not saying that the child has no health problems.  It’s easy to see that all 13 children have a health problem (malnutrition and everything that goes along with that), but I don’t think Janessa’s is nearly as serious as Jill made it out to be.  JMO

I don't doubt the diagnosis for Janessa. In my experience, doctors can often state the worst case scenario as if it is a certainty. Medical diagnosis can also be tricky, and outliers do exist.

One of my daughters has a rare lung condition, NEHI. Almost nothing about the trajectory of her illness was typical. Her symptoms appeared ealier and were much more severe than normal, intital tests were inconclusive and looked like she had a much more dire prognosis, and biopsy showed that she actually had two concurrent interstitial lung diseases (meconium aspiration syndrome was the other), both of which improve on their own over time. However, she also got better much faster than expected. Most children with just one of those diseases are on oxygen for at least two years, and she was off of oxygen support within four months, and has been symptom free for over four years.

Having had that experience, among others, I know that sometimes medical anomalies, or miracles if you will, can and do happen. If Jill was falsely going for the miracle angle, I think she would play it up more.

[lulu69]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Wedding picture:

Jill looked like a crazy eyed lunatic even back then.

[doodlebug]

25 minutes ago, sleepysuzy said:

I don't doubt the diagnosis for Janessa. In my experience, doctors can often state the worst case scenario as if it is a certainty. Medical diagnosis can also be tricky, and outliers do exist.

One of my daughters has a rare lung condition, NEHI. Almost nothing about the trajectory of her illness was typical. Her symptoms appeared ealier and were much more severe than normal, intital tests were inconclusive and looked like she had a much more dire prognosis, and biopsy showed that she actually had two concurrent interstitial lung diseases (meconium aspiration syndrome was the other), both of which improve on their own over time. However, she also got better much faster than expected. Most children with just one of those diseases are on oxygen for at least two years, and she was off of oxygen support within four months, and has been symptom free for over four years.

Having had that experience, among others, I know that sometimes medical anomalies, or miracles if you will, can and do happen. If Jill was falsely going for the miracle angle, I think she would play it up more.

Did a little reading on the subject.  I have a feeling that the doctors saw something unusual on her prenatal ultrasound and agenesis of the corpus callosum was one of the possibilities.  Since it was the most serious defect, the one most likely to result in ongoing disability; Jill decided to skip over the other stuff and emphasize the worst case scenario in order to get sympathy (and shower gifts).  I think it probably turned out that Janessa doesn't have agenesis of the corpus callosum since it doesn't look like she is having delay in her motor development, but perhaps has some minor issue or something that went away on its own.  If you've ever looked at an ultrasound, you know the pictures are black and white and shadowy.  Even a very skilled sonographer could see something a little different, suspect it might be a problem and everything turns out all right.  I don't think Jill lied about the potential diagnosis, but I think, once the baby was born, she just praised God for a miracle because that is how she rolls. And, by emphasizing the worst case scenario up to that point, she could proclaim a bigger miracle.  She glossed over the facts to fit the story she wanted to tell.

Looking at Jill's wedding photos, she was a real lollipop-head.  I imagine she did some starvation-type 'dieting' to achieve that skeletal result and I wouldn't be surprised if she encourages her teen daughters to strictly limit their calories in order to catch a man since we all know men like women built like Olive Oyl.  It serves a dual purpose since, with the girls voluntarily putting themselves on starvation rations, there's that much more for David.

Edited July 18, 2019 by doodlebug

[galaxychaser]

David looked cuter when he was younger. Jill looks maniacal!

[Heathen]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I also believe clomid increases the chance of multiples and JillR only has singletons. 

That does not mean that taking Clomid only results in multiple births -- my aunt used it and had one kid. 

[Scarlett45]

I don’t think Jill is taking Clomid or messing with her fertility, I just think that she and David together are both fertile and they have vaginal penile intercourse very regularly.

People compare her to her sisters (which I get), but the fertility of the man is a factor in this AND a couples sexual life and habits. David may still have great sperm quality and they may have sex a lot. Didn’t she get married at 21?? 12 kids in almost 20 years if you’re having sex in the regular isn’t odd. 200 years ago many women had between 8-12 live births (although a few of those kids didn’t live to adulthood) between marriage in late adolescence and menopause. 

[Zella]

13 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

David looked cuter when he was younger. Jill looks maniacal!

Yeah she's not an unattractive woman by any means, but she looks like she's on the verge of going postal!

It's definitely one of the worst instances of crazy eyes I've ever seen in a wedding picture. I've had a few friends get married this summer, and I couldn't help but notice in all the pictures, all of the brides--even the ones who might not be considered conventionally attractive--were just glowing and beaming naturally because they were so happy.

She . . . looks like she is going to be profiled by the FBI Behavioral Science Unit.

Or like that's one of the before pictures they show on Dateline before they talk about your murder spree.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Zella

[awaken]

What on earth happened to David?  He was somewhat handsome back then. The years have been very, very hard on him. Not just putting on weight, but he looks so vacant. 

[DangerousMinds]

30 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t think Jill is taking Clomid or messing with her fertility, I just think that she and David together are both fertile and they have vaginal penile intercourse very regularly.

People compare her to her sisters (which I get), but the fertility of the man is a factor in this AND a couples sexual life and habits. David may still have great sperm quality and they may have sex a lot. Didn’t she get married at 21?? 12 kids in almost 20 years if you’re having sex in the regular isn’t odd. 200 years ago many women had between 8-12 live births (although a few of those kids didn’t live to adulthood) between marriage in late adolescence and menopause. 

I hate thinking about this, but when do they get the chance to have sex a lot with all of those kids around? Yikes.

[Heathen]

3 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I hate thinking about this, but when do they get the chance to have sex a lot with all of those kids around? Yikes.

Especially when they were living full-time in that damned RV! "When the RV's a-rocking, don't come knocking"? How could the kids NOT know what was going on? Did they just stand around outside until they heard Jill squeal, "Oh, David!"? 

One good thing about this conversation. It's turned into a dandy diet aid. 

[Ohiopirate02]

44 minutes ago, awaken said:

What on earth happened to David?  He was somewhat handsome back then. The years have been very, very hard on him. Not just putting on weight, but he looks so vacant. 

He's been married to Jill for 20 years of course he looks vacant.  He probably spends most of his days checked out while Jill rails about the latest slight she received or witnessed.  Look at her Facebook posts.   She most likely speaks like that at all times with the exclamation points and random capitalized words probably sound like she is yelling. 

[Temperance]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t think Jill is taking Clomid or messing with her fertility, I just think that she and David together are both fertile and they have vaginal penile intercourse very regularly.

People compare her to her sisters (which I get), but the fertility of the man is a factor in this AND a couples sexual life and habits. David may still have great sperm quality and they may have sex a lot. Didn’t she get married at 21?? 12 kids in almost 20 years if you’re having sex in the regular isn’t odd. 200 years ago many women had between 8-12 live births (although a few of those kids didn’t live to adulthood) between marriage in late adolescence and menopause. 

Jill was married at 18. She had most of her kids during the first decade and 1/2 of her marriage. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Temperance

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, Temperance said:

Jill was married at 18. She had most of her kids during the first decade and 1/2 of her marriage. 

Thanks. Well no wonder she’s got so many- she started at her peak fertility. (Along with David being young and fertile as well)  

6 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I hate thinking about this, but when do they get the chance to have sex a lot with all of those kids around? Yikes.

I’m sure it doesn’t take very long. 😂

6 hours ago, Heathen said:

Especially when they were living full-time in that damned RV! "When the RV's a-rocking, don't come knocking"? How could the kids NOT know what was going on? Did they just stand around outside until they heard Jill squeal, "Oh, David!"? 

One good thing about this conversation. It's turned into a dandy diet aid. 

I’m sure they probably do know (at least the older ones), the same way kids knew back when people lived in 4 room houses. 

[sondraK]

10 hours ago, LilJen said:

No way does that kid have complete agenesis of the corpus callosum. If she did, she would not be walking or sitting, at least not at this point. I knew a kid who had it who didn't walk until age 4. I think Jill went overdramatic on the possible TERRIBLE SEVERE diagnosis she got while Janessa was in the womb.

Iirc,Jill said Janessa had a partial corpus callosum.And she'd had a stroke before birth

[kokapetl]

9 hours ago, awaken said:

What on earth happened to David?  He was somewhat handsome back then. The years have been very, very hard on him. Not just putting on weight, but he looks so vacant. 

It’s like he went ten minutes without oxygen between then and now. 

[Saylii]

I agree that Jill likely went with the diagnosis SHE was given for Janessa, but it was a mix of “scare the parent into getting medical attention,” “let’s justify every test under the sun to charge back to Medicaid,” and “9 times out of 10 x means y but we don’t understand the 1 time out of 10.”

1 of my kids was born with a chronic condition that requires lifelong care.  I’m not impressed with some of the doctor’s we’ve seen.

[BitterApple]

11 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

12 kids in almost 20 years if you’re having sex in the regular isn’t odd. 200 years ago many women had between 8-12 live births (although a few of those kids didn’t live to adulthood) between marriage in late adolescence and menopause. 

That's a good point. Wasn't Marie Antoinette one of 14 or 15 kids? If our collective society decided to wing it and forego birth control, families like the Rods wouldn't be such an anomaly.

[DkNNy79]

I don't know.  Essentially a woman is really only fertile 5-6 days each cycle.  You can easily still have sex but avoid being pregnant by abstaining those days.  Are they just so horny that they are constantly having sex all the time?

[galaxychaser]

If the Duggar kids knew moms ovulation days... Maybe Jill and David are just as open to the kids.  Yeah if the bus is rocking don’t come knocking. Probably all the kids are kicked off the bus at a rest stop. 

[Scarlett45]

13 minutes ago, DkNNy79 said:

I don't know.  Essentially a woman is really only fertile 5-6 days each cycle.  You can easily still have sex but avoid being pregnant by abstaining those days.  Are they just so horny that they are constantly having sex all the time?

1. You’re assuming a couple WANTS to abstain to avoid pregnancy and 

2. Abstaining from sex isn’t always an option for women in many of these patriarchal and misogynistic situations. 

If you don’t want to abstain then point 1 is irrelevant. 

I say all this to say I don’t think Jill Rodriguez is doing anything medically to enhance her fertility, it’s just human biology (although she and David together might be slightly more fertile naturally than a typical couple their ages) .

My great grandmother had 12 children (the baby is my last living great aunt she had at 47, sister to my paternal grandfather), only 2 died before 18 yrs and she had one set of twins. Between 21 and 47 she had 11 pregnancies that ended in a live birth, WAY before any sort of assistive reproductive tech. She didn’t consider herself especially fertile, but lucky that the kids were born healthy (one died from influenza as a teen, one from a fever as a toddler). Her baby child is still alive and 85. That wasn’t that long ago in the span of human history. 

Yes there are some couples who just didn’t have a lot of kids for whatever reason before medical contraceptives (perhaps they were committed to abstinence, had a lower sex drive, hated each other, financial reasons etc), but there are other couples who popped out a baby every year or every other year like clock work until the woman entered peri-menopause. All of those children weren’t expected to live to adulthood with infant mortality being what it was. 

Bring in a woman like JILL who thinks she’s breeding for Jesus she WILL be pregnant as often as biologically possible. 

[emma675]

David looks like a 1970's porn star in that wedding pic. Jill looks terrifying, as usual.

[Scarlett45]

34 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

That's a good point. Wasn't Marie Antoinette one of 14 or 15 kids? If our collective society decided to wing it and forego birth control, families like the Rods wouldn't be such an anomaly.

Yes. Queen Anne of Great Britain had 17 recorded pregnancies, but only 1 child survived infancy and he still predeceased her. William IV had 10 kids with his long term mistress and she already had a child when they met.  (I bring up the mistress point because this is an example of ppl being together because they want to, not as an arranged marriage)

What makes these fundy quiverfull families so odd is that they are choosing to breed in the manner people did before medical contraceptives but benefiting from modern medicine which exponentially lowers the rate of post partum and infant deaths. Also our economy has changed where it costs a lot more to raise children to adulthood now. It’s not “grow some food, put some shoes on them and they can work the farm and be just fine”. 

2 minutes ago, emma675 said:

David looks like a 1970's porn star in that wedding pic. Jill looks terrifying, as usual.

It’s the mustache!

[Heathen]

2 hours ago, emma675 said:

David looks like a 1970's porn star in that wedding pic. Jill looks terrifying, as usual.

He's definitely rocking the pornstache. 

[doodlebug]

14 hours ago, Heathen said:

That does not mean that taking Clomid only results in multiple births -- my aunt used it and had one kid. 

The risk of twins with Clomid is around 7-10% and it doesn't increase the risk of higher order multiples, so over 90% of women who conceive on Clomid get one baby.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, doodlebug said:

The risk of twins with Clomid is around 7-10% and it doesn't increase the risk of higher order multiples, so over 90% of women who conceive on Clomid get one baby.

I'm guessing if a woman used clomid for 13 pregnancies, she would have a good chance of having at least one set of twins.

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm guessing if a woman used clomid for 13 pregnancies, she would have a good chance of having at least one set of twins.

If a woman has thirteen pregnancies no matter how they occurred, I'd think she'd have a good chance at twins. 

ETA: Plus Jill has actually had 18 pregnancies with five SEVERE miscarriages. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Heathen

[doodlebug]

I doubt Jill needed to use Clomid, she is just a fertile woman.  Back in the day, women married as teens and had a lot of pregnancies right up until they went into menopause.  Jill is not an outlier.

As others have noted, women who marry young and don't use contraception have historically had multiple pregnancies.  Alexander Hamilton's wife, Eliza, had 8 kids as well as a miscarriage between the ages of 25 and 44.  If you know their story, they spent large chunks of time apart as he served in the Revolutionary War and was Secretary of the Treasury, otherwise she'd have probably made double digits easily.

Henry VII first wife, Catherine of Aragon had 7 pregnancies in 9 years although only one child survived. Her other pregnancies ended in miscarriage, stillbirth or infants who died shortly after birth.  Unfortunately for her, she went into premature menopause by the time she was 40 or there would've been more.

The chance of twins for people not on fertility drugs is around 1% but it rises as a woman ages and as she has more pregnancies.  Fraternal twins can run in families on the mother's side, but, even then, the inheritance is multifactorial and the risk is around 5%.  My partner currently has a patient in her mid 20's who is carrying twin girls.  She has twin boys who are two.  No fertility drugs involved other than maybe a glass of wine.

Edited July 18, 2019 by doodlebug

[Jynnan tonnix]

9 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I doubt Jill needed to use Clomid, she is just a fertile woman.  Back in the day, women married as teens and had a lot of pregnancies right up until they went into menopause.  Jill is not an outlier.

As others have noted, women who marry young and don't use contraception have historically had multiple pregnancies.  Alexander Hamilton's wife, Eliza, had 8 kids as well as a miscarriage between the ages of 25 and 44.  If you know their story, they spent large chunks of time apart as he served in the Revolutionary War and was Secretary of the Treasury, otherwise she'd have probably made double digits easily.

Henry VII first wife, Catherine of Aragon had 7 pregnancies in 9 years although only one child survived. Her other pregnancies ended in miscarriage, stillbirth or infants who died shortly after birth.  Unfortunately for her, she went into premature menopause by the time she was 40 or there would've been more.

The chance of twins for people not on fertility drugs is around 1% but it rises as a woman ages and as she has more pregnancies.  Fraternal twins can run in families on the mother's side, but, even then, the inheritance is multifactorial and the risk is around 5%.  My partner currently has a patient in her mid 20's who is carrying twin girls.  She has twin boys who are two.  No fertility drugs involved other than maybe a glass of wine.

I have a friend who had sets of identical twin girls two years apart! Apparently she was a little bit of a local celebrity for a while after that. I know that has nothing to do with fertility drugs, but I still find it kind of amazing!

[Natalie68]

16 hours ago, galaxychaser said:

David looked cuter when he was younger. Jill looks maniacal!

I agree.  Time has hit him upside the head with a 2X4.  That and gaining a shit ton of weight.

[Luvmy300zx]

Local lady here had quads years ago, no drugs. Two sets of identical twins, 1 of girls and 1 of boys.the four of them looked identical.

[Ohiopirate02]

19 minutes ago, Luvmy300zx said:

Local lady here had quads years ago, no drugs. Two sets of identical twins, 1 of girls and 1 of boys.the four of them looked identical.

I hope her husband had a vasectomy.

[libgirl2]

On 7/17/2019 at 1:13 PM, louannems said:

I've seen their wedding picture.  He wasn't tooooo horrible then, but he seems to have grown into a cariture of himself.

He looks like a messy stack of clothes. 

[realityfan26]

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

The chance of twins for people not on fertility drugs is around 1% but it rises as a woman ages and as she has more pregnancies.  Fraternal twins can run in families on the mother's side, but, even then, the inheritance is multifactorial and the risk is around 5%.  My partner currently has a patient in her mid 20's who is carrying twin girls.  She has twin boys who are two.  No fertility drugs involved other than maybe a glass of wine.

My son and his wife had identical twin boys 6 months ago and the above is why they aren't trying for any more. 

[GeeGolly]

Two of my nieces who are sisters, had twins. One niece had identical boys in her early 30s, her sister had boy/girl twins in her mid 30s. No history of twins as far back as anyone can remember. 

It is surprising that neither Kelly Bates or JillR had twins and Michelle had two sets.

[Heathen]

When I lived in South Carolina, I knew of someone who had had two sets of twins and was then pregnant with quadruplets. All natural, according to rumor. I believe one of the quads died in utero, but that's still seven kids from three pregnancies (and past time to quit). 

Back on topic: David looks vacant in his wedding photo, too -- just not as dumb as he does now.