S01.E06: Five-O

[Adam]

Why Saul turns on Mike:

Remember in BB when Mike presses for Jesse's whereabouts and Saul's reaction?

[Bannon]

To follow on, I think the reason why Mike has so little patience for Walter in the future, is that Mike can't fathom why Walter is driven to go to the ends that Walter pursues. MIke, it's clear now, tortures himself daily with the knowledge that he "broke" his son for no gain, with his son murdered anyways . To Mike, Walter serving his pride, taking huge risks, not to provide for his family (think about how Walter's target profit for leaving the meth business spiraled ever upward), but to make up for the insults Walter perceived he had been made to suffer, from parties past and present, is grotesque and disgusting. Mike would suffer a million fold insults for a 2nd chance to have been a better father, and Walter has the chance to simply get his wife and son adequate cash to provide for themselves after Walter's death, but that isn't enough for Walter. Walter needs the affirmation of others, or at least their restraint in disrespecting Walter. This enrages Mike.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Bannon

[Constantinople]

I find it interesting here that they made Mike so justified (relatively) in the killing of the two officers. Not the revenge angle, but the fact that he was basically acting in self defense as they were about to kill him and make it look like a suicide. In BB, Mike is a hired gun who assassinates people when Gus needs it, without any qualms. BB Mike would have killed them right out, and not waited to pull out the hidden gun only when he seemed to be in danger.

 

I wonder if this is to fit more with the tone of BCS, or if they are implying Mike isn't that dirty just yet.

It's not self-defense.

They only reason they were about to kill Mike was because Mike set them up to do that (a mirror reflection of how they set-up his son).

Before Mike went into the bar, he broke into their police car and planted a gun. While Mike was at the bar he walked over them, apparently drunkenly, at least to them, and said he knew it was them. Mike then waited to leave until the bar closed so that no one would see him or them.

Mike knew the two cops would pick him up, pat him down, take the gun that he was carrying on him and drive him somehwere isolated where they could finish Mike off. Mike used this against him to set-up his ambush and appear, armed and sober, essentially out of nowhere.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Constantinople

[morgankobi]

That's why I said "basically" self-defense. Yes, he set-up the situation, but the situation also confirmed his theory that they killed his son when they made no argument whatsoever. He did nothing that made it OK for them to kill him and stage a suicide, that was their choice to make. They chose to force him into the car, they chose to drive to a deserted area, and they chose to use his gun. Pretending to be drunk and telling someone you know what they did doesn't relieve them of any of that responsibility.

 

The writers made a narrative choice to make Mike seem less cold-blooded here than in BB murders, and this is the one time his cold-bloodedness might have been OK with many viewers. I'm interested in the choice they made here.

Edited March 10, 2015 by morgankobi

[Umbelina]

I don't think it made Mike less cold blooded.  I feel like it made Mike smarter, and also, confirmed without any doubt that they HAD killed his son, to the viewers certainly, but had the cops made another choice?  Maybe to Mike as well.

 

My feeling is he was pretty damn sure, he's been around a LONG time, and knew how dirty they were, but when they were going to stage his suicide, not a single doubt was left. 

 

I don't really see the cold blooded though, since obviously, even though time passed, he still killed them because they killed his son.  Cold blooded is (to me anyway) killing someone you may not even know because someone tells you to, or you just feel like it, or shooting someone in a convenience store you've robbed simply because they MIGHT identify you.  Legally I'm probably wrong, but morally?  It gets cloudier.

[whyjen8]

The vet offered to throw some work Mike's way and Mike told him he didn't do that kind of work. (paraphrasing)  He's not a cold blooded killer yet.  Can't wait to see the journey though.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

My God.  "I broke my son."  That's it.  There is no coming back from such a core self-belief, absent some metaphysical thing that I do not pretend to understand.

 

Just give an Emmy to Banks and Gilligan now.

 

The two things that did not ring true in the ep was that Mike shot the fat cop in his Kevlar-protected chest.  Mike would have known to not do that.  That he executed a perfect kill shot to the head on the other one tells me this was a screw-up.   Then, taking the bullet he did and being able to to instantly right himself and hit his head target (nicking the carotid) after having drunk alllllll that booze?  Too superhuman for my tastes.

 

I also would have looooooved to have the scene at the parking booth when Mike and Jimmy left the justice center.  Jimmy making Mike pay cash could have been such a fun moment.

 

For me, BB was about what humans can do when they've reached a bottom and simply do not give a f anymore.  If you already know that death is not such a bad option, you can plan and then be super patient when the crucial moments commence.  These folks keep their heads when the opponents are most likely to lose theirs.

Mike's mortal cool in the back seat, and then as he raised his gun,  was awesome.

 

Oh.  How PERFECT and fantastic that 38 Special's "Hold on Loosely" was playing in the bar scene.  I literally clapped as I heard the first strains.

[Fisher King]

Great pick up on the .38 Special, Lonesome.

 

Well, we've just seen a side of Mike that was rarely ever shown on That Other Show. Jonathan Banks choked me up immensely.  My eyes got blurry for some reason.

 

A young Paul Newman as Matlock was also terrific.

 

Hopefully this is the episode that will convince the majority of viewers who were on the fence to stay tuned. 

[Cthulhudrew]

So, was Mike pretending to drink and grieve for those few months to formulate a plan and gather proof that Matty's partner and sergeant were the ones who killed him? As a way to give him a decent cover, to make him look even more like the grieving father, and help explain his abrupt departure to New Mexico to be near his daughter-in-law and granddaughter?

I was wondering the same thing. On the one hand, it is the brilliant long term planning that Mike has demonstrated over the course of his tenure and certainly in character (and wow, what an alibi). 

 

On the other hand, the shot of him at the bar struggling with that shotglass of whiskey seemed pretty desperate. I suppose it could simply have been the emotion that we saw at the end, of him reliving the futility of what he'd forced his son to do, and stirring himself up to carry through with his plan, rather than him actually having been struggling to stay sober.

 

Either way, that was a great episode. Jonathan Banks knocked this out of the park. He and Bob Odenkirk (and Aaron Paul) were the best things about Breaking Bad, to me. (Okay, Cranston was good, but his character was so despicable). I liked the insight we got into Mike's character here; it was always pretty clear that he wasn't on the up and up even when he was a cop, but seeing how it affected him and his son was really interesting.

[LotusFlower]

The two things that did not ring true in the ep was that Mike shot the fat cop in his Kevlar-protected chest.  Mike would have known to not do that.  That he executed a perfect kill shot to the head on the other one tells me this was a screw-up.   Then, taking the bullet he did and being able to to instantly right himself and hit his head target (nicking the carotid) after having drunk alllllll that booze?  Too superhuman for my tastes.

I don't think Mike knew the Sargent was wearing a Kevlar vest (they were off-duty, after all). And secondly, Mike planned everything in advance - as others have speculated, he likely only pretended to be drunk.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The bartender knew he had, himself, given Mike a snoot full and then some.  Mike was dang snookered.

[LotusFlower]

The bartender knew he had, himself, given Mike a snoot full and then some.  Mike was dang snookered.

In the scene at the bar, he holds the glass (of whiskey?), and takes two sips. They purposely scan to the glass - mostly full, as Mike puts the glass down and walks over to the cops. From that moment on, he was play-acting. It was part of his plan. He needed them to think he was drunk so they'd have an excuse to pick him up. Then, notice how still and efficient he was when he shot the two. You can't do that if you're drunk. They don't call it impaired for nothing!

[hincandenza]

Good episode, although the season as a whole feels... sluggish, plot-wise.

Was that Vince Gilligan himself playing the vet at the beginning? If so, the "I can throw some work your way" line has a nice double/meta meaning, like when the writer of "True Detective" had a cameo as a bartender to whom Woody Harrelson pled, "Why do you make me say these things?!?".

[shapeshifter]

Good episode, although the season as a whole feels... sluggish, plot-wise....

...Hopefully this is the episode that will convince the majority of viewers who were on the fence to stay tuned.

I can't tell if any non-BrBa viewers have commented in the episode thread. While this episode certainly tracks as a stand alone, I'm not sure if it would have many sustained viewer ratings (Nielsen viewers who watch the whole episode) with those who are not BrBa devotees.

The bartender knew he had, himself, given Mike a snoot full and then some.  Mike was dang snookered.

I was considering that the bartender was in on it with Mike, but the bartender's offers to drive him home were spoken in an empty bar at closing. So Mike was a high-functioning drinker at that point in his life, right?

[BeatrixK]

"I broke my boy.....I broke my boy.'

 

I would have bet a gadjillion dollars that, of all BB characters, Mike would have never been one to reduce me to tears.  And I would now owe a metric asston of money.

 

Holy crap!  Book it...done:  Banks will win the Emmy for best Supp actor in a drama.  Just brilliant work with brilliant writing.

[DrSpaceman]

I got the two days because that's how long it took the dirty cops to kill Matty.  Ooops, and thanks for the correction, that just makes the fact that he waited into a stronger story for Mike.

 

I thought Mike showed plenty of range on BB, with Jesse, and in his dying scene, and even with his head's butting with Walt.

 

I'm so happy for the actor that he's getting this chance to play such a good role.

 

Can Odenkirk carry a show?  I tend to think he can.  Together with Banks though?  Oh hell yes.

 

Odenkirk can definetly carry a show.  Prior to Breaking Bad, Bryan Cranston was best know for a minor role on Seinfeld and being a dad on a family sitcom.  He turned in one of the great dramatic performances in TV history.  Odenkirk has much more of a background than Cranston and can certainly do it as well. 

 

Those who watched Breaking Bad already knew what Banks was capable of doing on screen.  This episode just proved it once again

 

Best episode of the season so far, by far.

[Ailianna]

Just because the bartender served Mike a ton of booze doesn't mean Mike drank it all. It's easy in a busy bar to "misplace" your drink, spill some, et cetera, and not really drink as much as people think you have. I think Mike was setting up his alibi, but he was also playing everyone with how drunk they thought he was that night. I'd be surprised if he drank much more than the two swallows we actually saw.

[ghoulina]

LOVED having an entire Mike episode! He was my absolute favorite on BB, and Banks is such a powerful actor. The scene where he explained everything to his daughter-in-law just broke my heart. The guilt he has to carry around, along with your typical morning and grief, must be crushing. 

 

What I loved about this episode was that I feel like I am finally starting to really get into these characters' heads. I am losing some of my naivete. I immediately knew that, despite his protestations, Jimmy was going to spill the coffee. And, even though I wasn't 100% until it played out, I strongly suspected Mike was faking being sloshed that night. That he had planned the entire thing down to the last detail. I mean, why else go up to people you knew killed your son because he knew their secrets and tell them that YOU knew their secrets as well? Even drunk, Mike aint that stupid. No, in fact, he handled the entire thing rather brilliantly. 

 

I still like being surprised, but I also like feeling - "These are my people".

 

I like the way Mike and Saul play off each other, excited that they're being brought closer together. 

 

"I'm a young Paul Newman dressed like Matlock". God, I love Jimmy. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by ghoulina

[peggy06]

I can't tell if any non-BrBa viewers have commented in the episode thread. While this episode certainly tracks as a stand alone, I'm not sure if it would have many sustained viewer ratings (Nielsen viewers who watch the whole episode) with those who are not BrBa devotees.

I was considering that the bartender was in on it with Mike, but the bartender's offers to drive him home were spoken in an empty bar at closing. So Mike was a high-functioning drinker at that point in his life, right?

I'm a BrBa watcher and fan, but was never on the Mike love train. The character had inconsistencies and I was always pretty meh about him. I'm one of the few here who wasn't anxious for more Mike. So, if I knew in advance that this was going to be an all-Mike episode, I might have planned some bill-paying or laundry-folding during the hour.

 

As it is, the story was plenty compelling without any reference to the other show. It stands on its own very well, IMO, for anybody who only knows Mike as the ticket guy. You don't need to know anything about Kaylee and Stacey, let alone Walter and Jesse, to get involved in it. A real tour-de-force by Jonathan Banks. The scenes where he talks about his son were amazing. Of course, if you HAVE watched BrBa, there's the bonus that this gives insight into what we knew of Mike, and his relationships with other BrBa characters. I get Mike and Jesse in a way I never did before - that never quite held together for me, and seemed too much like a TV trope. But now it seems believable.

 

I think Mike probably was a drinker, and maybe an alcoholic for all I know, but that night, I think he was acting. From the moment of breaking into the car, it was clear he was setting them up. When he was talking to the bartender, putting on his jacket, mentioning Albuquerque, he didn't seem incapable. Then he left the bar and he's staggering. He would have to have been decently sober to have carried out the shooting.

 

It was not exactly self-defense - because he did engineer the situation - and yet, in a way it was. It was going to be him or them. Since he had already planned his move West, I tend to think he was going to kill them one way or another. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by peggy06

[ghoulina]

I am assuming some of his drinking was real, and part of the stages of grief thing, but it would also appear enough of his self-medicating was an act designed to carry out the Hoffman and Whassisface hit.

 

Yea, he definitely really had a problem there for awhile. Because his DIL knew, and was asking if he was better once he got to ABQ. But I'm guessing that once he decided what he was going to do, he quit on the real, but kept it up for the shady cops' sake. 

[ghoulina]

Just because the bartender served Mike a ton of booze doesn't mean Mike drank it all. It's easy in a busy bar to "misplace" your drink, spill some, et cetera, and not really drink as much as people think you have

 

That's what I was thinking. He could have been taking tiny sips, and spilling the rest out on the floor. It was pretty crowded in there.

[queenanne]

Yeah, it would be too much planning to expect Mike to be a lifelong fake-drunk, concomitantly with his being a completely complacent graft-taking corrupt cop.  If he'd been in on a corrupt-cop multi-year sting, then I might buy multi-year fake-drunk.

 

Still takes a lot of willpower, though.

[Blackie]

I was getting a little confused with the timeline in this episode, let me see if I got it right.

 

Past: Mike arriving in Albq , goes with DIL, she says she thought hubby dirty, "my son not dirty", Mikw walks out

Present:(but how long later, did they say how long Mike has been in Albq?)  Mike brought in by cops, steals note book

Past: the set up of the two cops and killing of the two cops

 Past or present:?here's where i was confused---past or present :  Mike going to dil, yelling to her about phoning the cops about money, did Mike get that info from the notebook, was that the present?   Are we to believe that Mike hasn't really had contact with the DIL since he kind of stormed out the first time he was her?

 

Pretty sure the present:  Mike explains the situation to the DIL, although I am not sure what was the motivating factor for him to go back and tell her the truth

 

Great episode, except I found the timeline confusing, which I usually don't.  Also for sure the weak link was the acting of DIL.

[ghoulina]

Past or present:?here's where i was confused---past or present :  Mike going to dil, yelling to her about phoning the cops about money, did Mike get that info from the notebook, was that the present?   Are we to believe that Mike hasn't really had contact with the DIL since he kind of stormed out the first time he was her?

 

Yea, I definitely thought that was present. And I assumed the DIL had basically iced him out since he arrived. I got the feeling that she knew he was hiding something, and maybe thought he was somehow to blame/involved for her husband getting killed. Or maybe she was just pissed that he wouldn't tell he whatever he knew. Either way, I felt like she couldn't trust him and didn't really want him around her or her daughter if he wasn't going to be honest with her. 

 

The way she stood up and told him she had to get dinner on for Kayleigh seemed very cold and like she was making it known she didn't really want him around. That's the impression I got anyhow. 

[shapeshifter]

...the story was plenty compelling without any reference to the other show. It stands on its own very well, IMO, for anybody who only knows Mike as the ticket guy. You don't need to know anything about Kaylee and Stacey, let alone Walter and Jesse, to get involved in it. A real tour-de-force by Jonathan Banks. The scenes where he talks about his son were amazing. Of course, if you HAVE watched BrBa, there's the bonus that this gives insight into what we knew of Mike, and his relationships with other BrBa characters....

I too am a BrBa fan </disclaimer>, but I was wondering (not explaining this very well) if those didn't already know Mike before this show would have watched this episode long enough to get to the amazing parts, like, "I broke my son."

[ShadowFacts]

My only quibble with this episode is that it was too light on Jimmy.  Those who are unfamiliar with Mike from his previous work on BB might not have been quite as invested in seeing his intensely tragic past, coupled with the relative lack of levity from Jimmy.  The way it was structured though, I don't know where there could have been more Jimmy.  I don't know that they can do much more of that -- taking the focus off of their title character -- but this made total sense, to get a good read on how Mike got to Albuquerque and what motivates him.

[duVerre]

 

I can't tell if any non-BrBa viewers have commented in the episode thread. While this episode certainly tracks as a stand alone, I'm not sure if it would have many sustained viewer ratings (Nielsen viewers who watch the whole episode) with those who are not BrBa devotees.

 

I saw only 3 eps of Breaking Bad, so I count myself a non-BB viewer. (I read this thread and actually squint and sing la-la-la inside my brain when the BB references get too thick.)

 

I thought Five-O was one of the best hours of television I've ever seen. Believe me, it doesn't matter if you know Mike's "future story" (as opposed to back story) or not. To me, he was a mysterious man whose past was revealed, on a tragic scale. You don't need Breaking Bad to understand that... and be so disturbed you have a hard time sleeping. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by duVerre

[teddysmom]

This was the role Jonathan was born to play and hopefully this is the role that will get him an Emmy. As well as Bob and Vince/Peter for creating/producing.  

 

FYI, Peter Gould and Jonathan Banks were on Fresh Air on NPR yesterday. You can listen to it on iTunes or at npr.org.  

[Irlandesa]

I too am a BrBa fan </disclaimer>, but I was wondering (not explaining this very well) if those didn't already know Mike before this show would have watched this episode long enough to get to the amazing parts, like, "I broke my son."

We've already had one non-BrB comment in this thread.  You can probably read more in the BCS only thread. 

 

I don't know why non-BrB fans who are watching BCS are expected to hold different standards of viewing.  Sure, they may not know the future as well as those of us who have watched BrB but BCS has to be able to stand on its own and I think this episode was compelling enough to stand on its own.  It's not like the audience as a whole hasn't already been asked to patiently wait for things to unfold in Jimmy's life already.  The only difference is that this is about Mike.  If non-BrB could do it for Jimmy, I don't see why they wouldn't do it for Mike for one episode.

 

In theory, some non-BrB may have given up but if they're in, I suspect they're in for whatever this show wants to give us/them.

[duVerre]

 

I don't know why non-BrB fans who are watching BCS are expected to hold different standards of viewing. ... It's not like the audience as a whole hasn't already been asked to patiently wait for things to unfold in Jimmy's life already.  The only difference is that this is about Mike.  If non-BrB could do it for Jimmy, I don't see why they wouldn't do it for Mike for one episode.

Perfectly said. Thank you.

[editorgrrl]

Was that Vince Gilligan himself playing the vet at the beginning? If so, the "I can throw some work your way" line has a nice double/meta meaning, like when the writer of "True Detective" had a cameo as a bartender to whom Woody Harrelson pled, "Why do you make me say these things?!?".

Nope. Comedian Joe DeRosa played the veterinarian.

[peeayebee]

 JMO, I also feel like I understand more about what Mike sees in Jesse all those years later and why he just hates Walter so much; the archetypes that Walter and Jesse represent hit Mike where he lives.

Great observation. I'm ashamed I didn't pick up on that, but I was just so involved with the story. Seems like all viewers were thinking this was Jonathan Bank's Emmy submission ep, yet it didn't feel like Emmy-bait to me, not like some other submissions. This whole ep was like a short story, with a fantastic character arc and revelation. Just amazing.

 

It was great seeing Saul do his thing and not want to do anything illegal. Loved his banter as usual.

 

Of course I didn't realize at the time that Mike was faking being so drunk, yet I wondered why when he set his drink down it was half-full. I thought it couldn't be a production error, but when Mike grabbed the gun he'd planted in the police car, it all became clear.

 

A really outstanding ep. Bravo.

[Rickster]

I thought that this episode might have inadvertantly confirmed that the spinoff should have been about Mike, not Saul. This was certainly as gripping as the best of BB, if not more so. Very much out of sync with the tonality of the rest of BCS so far, at least. This is more of what I want to see, not Slippin' Jimmy and his crazy brother.

But I guess we'll see how things proceed from here.

[editorgrrl]

It was great seeing Saul do his thing and not want to do anything illegal. Loved his banter as usual.

Jimmy's scene was actually pretty important to the character arc. He asked how Mike could tell that Jimmy would spill the coffee—but Mike just snorted.

[morgankobi]

Mike was definitely in the BCS present when yelling at his daughter-in-law. The reason he knows she talked to the cops was because of the coffee-stained notes he lifted from the "small" detective.

[shirazplease]

I've only watched the first half hour of this (damn job! getting in the way of what's important in life!), but I just wanted to say the looks on Jimmy's face when they are in the interrogation room, when he realized where the conversation was going with regard to Mike's son, was stellar.  He turned to Mike and the realization that came over him was all over his face, no words needed.  He acted those few seconds like a fucking boss.  I love this show.

[SlackerInc]

I thought that this episode might have inadvertantly confirmed that the spinoff should have been about Mike, not Saul. This was certainly as gripping as the best of BB, if not more so. Very much out of sync with the tonality of the rest of BCS so far, at least. This is more of what I want to see, not Slippin' Jimmy and his crazy brother.

But I guess we'll see how things proceed from here.

We will--and it's comments like these (which I have seen on many sites today), that make me feel like there is a battle for the soul of this show underway. Especially if Vince Gilligan or those close to him read online comments. I'm on the opposite side of that battle from you, I'm afraid. I like this episode okay as long as it is representative of an occasional detour and not the norm.

For me, the exemplar of what this show should be most of the time was last week's episode. I prefer not only to be focused on Saul/Jimmy, but for the stakes to be relatively low and the tone light. That's why I liked that episode the best so far, and not for example the one with Tuco out in the desert. (And while I don't know if you can have late night hangout sessions in the nail salon every week without giving too repetitive, that is definitely one of my favorite parts of the show, and we didn't get anything like that this week, alas.)

Is anyone with me on this? If not, my only hope will be that Vince Gilligan just stubbornly wants to make the kind of show I want him to make, regardless of how many or how few fans are down with that.

I'm kind of iffy on Kaylee's mother, at times she held her own, but other times I felt like I was watching her acting. I'm so not used to seeing that on a Vince Gilligan show.

"Watching her acting". That's exactly how I felt. Took me out of the scene. Yet I've seen some people specifically praise her acting – go figure.

Good call too on noticing the realistic looking backyard.

To follow on, I think the reason why Mike has so little patience for Walter in the future, is that Mike can't fathom why Walter is driven to go to the ends that Walter pursues. MIke, it's clear now, tortures himself daily with the knowledge that he "broke" his son for no gain, with his son murdered anyways . To Mike, Walter serving his pride, taking huge risks, not to provide for his family (think about how Walter's target profit for leaving the meth business spiraled ever upward), but to make up for the insults Walter perceived he had been made to suffer, from parties past and present, is grotesque and disgusting. Mike would suffer a million fold insults for a 2nd chance to have been a better father, and Walter has the chance to simply get his wife and son adequate cash to provide for themselves after Walter's death, but that isn't enough for Walter. Walter needs the affirmation of others, or at least their restraint in disrespecting Walter. This enrages Mike.

I think people engage in a little bit of revisionist history, especially when it comes to Walter and Mike. When Mike punched Walter out at the bar, this was in response to Walter trying to look to him for help in keeping Gus from killing him (Walter). Then, under a ruse of a chemical leak, Mike was going to cold-bloodedly murder Walter at Gus's behest. And Gus's desire to have Walt killed was not because of Walter's greed or self-aggrandizement, or ego, or any of that. It was because, after trying unsuccessfully to save Jesse in a more diplomatic, negotiated way, Walt arrived on the scene and saved Jesse from being killed by those two drug dealers by killing them himself. So Mike was going to kill Walter for his most heroic and selfless act, which you would think Mike would have appreciated later once he became fond of Jesse. In any event, that Walter ended up killing Mike instead is therefore no great betrayal.

Just because the bartender served Mike a ton of booze doesn't mean Mike drank it all. It's easy in a busy bar to "misplace" your drink, spill some, et cetera, and not really drink as much as people think you have. I think Mike was setting up his alibi, but he was also playing everyone with how drunk they thought he was that night. I'd be surprised if he drank much more than the two swallows we actually saw.

Right, or he could have each have used the spy trick of eating a bunch of cheese (like, a pound) before going to the bar. Edited March 10, 2015 by SlackerInc

[Constantinople]

That's why I said "basically" self-defense. Yes, he set-up the situation, but the situation also confirmed his theory that they killed his son when they made no argument whatsoever. He did nothing that made it OK for them to kill him and stage a suicide, that was their choice to make. They chose to force him into the car, they chose to drive to a deserted area, and they chose to use his gun. Pretending to be drunk and telling someone you know what they did doesn't relieve them of any of that responsibility.

 

The writers made a narrative choice to make Mike seem less cold-blooded here than in BB murders, and this is the one time his cold-bloodedness might have been OK with many viewers. I'm interested in the choice they made here.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Mike didn't shoot his son's partner and sergeant immediately after or shortly after finding out about his son's death. Mike waited six months, manipulated them to into an ambush

Mike's motive in this episode was different than his motive in BB, but his actions were just as cold blooded, and his victims here were just as much in "the game", to use Wire parlance, as they were in BB.

[Spartan Girl]

As much as Mike's backstory about his son broke my heart, watching him dupe the dirty cops and kill them was a thing of absolute beauty.  Mike was the original Heisenberg.

[LoneHaranguer]

I suspect Mike has had a peek at Jimmy's criminal record.

 

Do the Philly cops lock themselves out of their cars often? Standard door locks of the era were designed to be resistant to Mike's method of breaking in, so the old style knobs were a conscious decision by somebody at the department.

[duVerre]

 

This is more of what I want to see, not Slippin' Jimmy and his crazy brother.

 

it's comments like these (which I have seen on many sites today), that make me feel like there is a battle for the soul of this show underway. Especially if Vince Gilligan or those close to him read online comments.

I don't know Breaking Bad from my elbow, but I doubt that there's a battle for the soul of the show going on. BCS has already established that the tone and the subject can shift at a moment's notice. In other words, the style is not uniform, and I expect other shifts in tone in the future. This episode was based on Mike, because the series needed one. End of story. 

 

As for Gilligan being swayed by what fans want--well, I have picked up that he loves things like fan art, but I doubt if he's going to indulge in "fan service." Based on his track record in t.v., I would think that his ego's in healthy shape, as any creative person's should be, in terms of what is good or bad for his series.  He would naturally turn to his creative team for advice, not fans. And I don't think he'd listen to what fans want out of concern for the ratings, as BCS was picked up for its second season after AMC saw this season's second episode. 

 

As someone who is new the "Breaking Bad universe," I take this show on its own terms, and am perfectly happy with a joint emphasis on Mike and Jimmy, or on Jimmy with Mike in a supporting role.

Edited March 10, 2015 by duVerre

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

 

And the Emmy for Best Supporting Actor in a Television Series goes to Jonathan Banks!  Or, rather, it had better go to Jonathan Banks.

Dang, what a performance. I was just riveted in front of my TV - gonna watch it again tonight. 

 

It explains (at least to me) a lot of how Mike acted in BB. The dude is emotionally dead at certain points - his son was killed for being "honest", he knew he was crooked (so in essence, the atmosphere of crookedness in which he participated "killed" his own kid - tough to swallow). 

[LoneHaranguer]

 

He would naturally turn to his creative team for advice, not fans.

Even if he wanted fan input, you wouldn't see it reflected in the remainder of the season. The way a series is produced, there's enough leeway to slip in something to note a major news event, but that's about it; the episodes are already done.

[Primetimer]

A tense confession closes the sixth Better Call Saul, opens Jonathan Banks's 2015 Emmy reel.

Read the story

[iMonrey]

 

 

Past: Mike arriving in Albq , goes with DIL, she says she thought hubby dirty, "my son not dirty", Mikw walks out

Present:(but how long later, did they say how long Mike has been in Albq?)  Mike brought in by cops, steals note book

Past: the set up of the two cops and killing of the two cops

Past or present:?here's where i was confused---past or present :  Mike going to dil, yelling to her about phoning the cops about money, did Mike get that info from the notebook, was that the present?   Are we to believe that Mike hasn't really had contact with the DIL since he kind of stormed out the first time he was her?

Pretty sure the present:  Mike explains the situation to the DIL, although I am not sure what was the motivating factor for him to go back and tell her the truth

 

I was thrown by the timeline too. At what point was Mike sitting outside his daughter in law's house watching her? Because that scene is followed up by the cops showing up at his door, and that scene is followed up by the interrogation room where they are asking him about the death of his son's partners. Wherein he asks for Jimmy, so all of this is in present day, yes? So - why was he sitting outside his daughter in laws house watching it? All of the flashback scenes seemed to indicate he could go and talk to her whenever he wanted. Why was he sitting out there?

 

The way the previous episode ended made it seem like the daughter in law had called the cops on him after discovering him siting outside in his car. But that is apparently not the case. I don't get when the scene between him and the daughter in law took place where he stormed in and yelled "You called the cops." Because the cops didn't ask him anything about the money she said she found in the suitcase. But if that was a flashback how did he know she called the cops?

 

Honestly, the structure of this show was a little too clever for it's own good and didn't make a whole lot of sense IMO.

[Bannon]

 

I think people engage in a little bit of revisionist history, especially when it comes to Walter and Mike. When Mike punched Walter out at the bar, this was in response to Walter trying to look to him for help in keeping Gus from killing him (Walter). Then, under a ruse of a chemical leak, Mike was going to cold-bloodedly murder Walter at Gus's behest. And Gus's desire to have Walt killed was not because of Walter's greed or self-aggrandizement, or ego, or any of that. It was because, after trying unsuccessfully to save Jesse in a more diplomatic, negotiated way, Walt arrived on the scene and saved Jesse from being killed by those two drug dealers by killing them himself. So Mike was going to kill Walter for his most heroic and selfless act, which you would think Mike would have appreciated later once he became fond of Jesse. In any event, that Walter ended up killing Mike instead is therefore no great betrayal.

Right, or he could have each have used the spy trick of eating a bunch of cheese (like, a pound) before going to the bar.

Yeah, I wasn't saying that Mike didn't have wholly criminally professional reasons to take action against Walt. It's more than that, however; Mike really, really, dislikes Walt personally, even when he partners with him after Walt's murder of Gus. Mike can't have any respect for a guy who is willing to put his family at risk for little more than ego gratification. He doesn't understand it at all, and in fact, that is why he doesn't forsee the possibility of Walt coming back at him to shoot him, in what amounts to little more than a hissy fit.

 

By the way, I agree that it would be a mistake to take this show wholly in the direction of Mike's dark world.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Bannon

[Rickster]

I was thrown by the timeline too. At what point was Mike sitting outside his daughter in law's house watching her? Because that scene is followed up by the cops showing up at his door, and that scene is followed up by the interrogation room where they are asking him about the death of his son's partners. Wherein he asks for Jimmy, so all of this is in present day, yes? So - why was he sitting outside his daughter in laws house watching it? All of the flashback scenes seemed to indicate he could go and talk to her whenever he wanted. Why was he sitting out there?

 

The way the previous episode ended made it seem like the daughter in law had called the cops on him after discovering him siting outside in his car. But that is apparently not the case. I don't get when the scene between him and the daughter in law took place where he stormed in and yelled "You called the cops." Because the cops didn't ask him anything about the money she said she found in the suitcase. But if that was a flashback how did he know she called the cops?

 

Honestly, the structure of this show was a little too clever for it's own good and didn't make a whole lot of sense IMO.

I found the timeline confusing too, but the "you called the cops" happened in the present day and Mike deduced it from the prior notes in the notebook he stole, not from anything said at the interview.

[Dev F]

I was thrown by the timeline too. At what point was Mike sitting outside his daughter in law's house watching her? Because that scene is followed up by the cops showing up at his door, and that scene is followed up by the interrogation room where they are asking him about the death of his son's partners. Wherein he asks for Jimmy, so all of this is in present day, yes? So - why was he sitting outside his daughter in laws house watching it? All of the flashback scenes seemed to indicate he could go and talk to her whenever he wanted. Why was he sitting out there?

 

I think the idea is that after the initial backyard scene with Mike, his daughter-in-law, and his granddaughter, Stacey essentially froze him out -- he volunteers to help her by watching Kaylee, and she stammers that, uh, yeah, she'll see him around. Maybe she cut ties with him completely, or maybe she made just a perfunctory effort to keep in touch, but clearly it wasn't enough contact to satisfy Mike, so he was reduced to gazing at them from afar until the Philly PD came a-callin.

[iMonrey]

So all his scenes with Stacey took place after the police interrogation, in present day? Then what made him so sure Stacey called the cops? The cops never mentioned the money Stacey found in the suitcase. Or is it just that he figured that was the only way the cops knew he was in Albuquerque? Which doesn't make sense either because he told the bartender where he was going, so that's at least one other person who knew.

 

E.T.A.

 

I found the timeline confusing too, but the "you called the cops" happened in the present day and Mike deduced it from the prior notes in the notebook he stole, not from anything said at the interview.

 

OH. Okay. Still . . . the ending of the previous episode was very misleading and the main reason this whole timeline seemed confusing.

Edited March 10, 2015 by iMonrey

[peggy06]

SlackerInc: We will--and it's comments like these (which I have seen on many sites today), that make me feel like there is a battle for the soul of this show underway. Especially if Vince Gilligan or those close to him read online comments. I'm on the opposite side of that battle from you, I'm afraid. I like this episode okay as long as it is representative of an occasional detour and not the norm.

For me, the exemplar of what this show should be most of the time was last week's episode. I prefer not only to be focused on Saul/Jimmy, but for the stakes to be relatively low and the tone light. That's why I liked that episode the best so far, and not for example the one with Tuco out in the desert. (And while I don't know if you can have late night hangout sessions in the nail salon every week without giving too repetitive, that is definitely one of my favorite parts of the show, and we didn't get anything like that this week, alas.)

Is anyone with me on this? If not, my only hope will be that Vince Gilligan just stubbornly wants to make the kind of show I want him to make, regardless of how many or how few fans are down with that.

 

I hope there's not a battle for the soul of the show, because I like the initial premise. I always thought Saul enlivened any episode of BrBa where he appeared, and I've loved watching Saul so far in BCS. Like you, I am happy with a lighter tone. If they had announced a prequel featuring Mike as the main character, I wouldn't be watching. JB does a good job with him (last night, a great job), but it's not what I am looking for from this show. I think they needed a full episode or two to flesh out his backstory, and now they have, and we move forward. They've set up an interesting relationship between Mike and Saul to be going on with.

 

No doubt there will be changes in tone in future episodes - it stands to reason there's going to be some dark stuff, as we do end up in the BrBa universe - but I hope there is still enough comedy and I hope for more development of Jimmy's character as well. He's shown an interesting mixture of good and bad impulses.

 

It's to be hoped Vince Gilligan won't be influenced by the fandom. Let him tell his story the way he wants to tell it.

 

Normally I'd complain about an episode having so little Saul, but in this case, there was just enough. Any more would have interfered with the sombre story that was about to unfold.

 

By the way, I agree about the revisionism with Mike and Walt. it seemed even the show did a little of that. JMO.

Edited March 10, 2015 by peggy06