S01.E18: Everyone Has A Cobblepot

[ElectricBoogaloo]

While Gordon seeks information about the recent controversy with Commissioner Loeb, Fish’s allegiance with the prisoners is questioned when she appears to join forces with Dr. Dulmacher. Meanwhile, after an attack close to home, Bruce deals with the aftermath.

 

Promo:

[Shanna]

I liked some of this episode but found a lot of the middle pretty dull.

I wanted more from baby Bruce and Alfred but I was pleasantly surprised to see Selena!

Jim was hardcore at the end.

Oh also Nygmas not girlfriends new slam piece is cute!

[MisterGlass]

April?  Mid April at that.

 

It feels like this one was mostly a set-up for what’s to come.  Jim’s not so much picking his battles as compromising, and that’s worrisome.  Asking Oswald for help is a terrible idea, and advancing through blackmail is a questionable practice.  If Jim is trying to sell integrity to the rest of the force, it’s hard to do it when his advancement is tied to a crime.  Listen to Harvey, Jim.

 

I was underwhelmed by the Dollmaker story.  Fish with her mismatched eye is kind of fun, but the monstrosity Jeffrey Combs was more ridiculous than scary.  I still don’t see a compelling reason for the people in the basement to follow her any farther.

 

I liked small moments in this.  I’m glad they didn’t drag out the question of whether Alfred would live or die.  I liked Bullock.  I liked that Cattween visited Bruce, and that he recognizes that he overplayed his hand with the board.  Miriam saying that Oswald looks like a bird, and how much she likes birds, amused me.  Peter Scolari is a doing well as the commissioner.

[shapeshifter]

...Miriam saying that Oswald looks like a bird, and how much she likes birds, amused me....

In Oswald's first scene I thought his hair was sticking up a little more than usual, and then came that line.

Not a great episode. I still love the atmosphere, but the organ black market plot is just too creepy.

I'm glad to take a break from the show.

[Lantern7]

Damn . . . this show knows how to leave an audience hanging.

 

I like Fish's new look . . . though I'm sure Jada could've rocked an eye patch if needed. Also liked how the show is willing to be lunatic, what with the head transplant and the reveal of the "Doctor's" headquarters. Also, watching Fish play both sides . . .  it's almost like she's become Penguin herself.

 

Kringle's boyfriend isn't going to stay long, right? Poor bastard. At least he's friendly to Eddie.

 

Oswald had one shell left? Sweet. I know, the scene was stolen from The Dark Knight, but watching two seniors -- a couple, no less! -- get forced into a deathmatch is darkly comical. And it turned out Oswald didn't have a train ticket to Arizona after all. That was cold. Funny, but cold. So much for having a warm spot for mothers.

 

Miriam is scary. Not overly so, though the starling necklace was a good indicator of crazy. BTW, anybody think starling bones were a shout-out to Arrow?

[opus]

So, Ivy sneaks into the hospital and steals food from the sickies.

[Actionmage]

Wow. That was an interesting hour.

 

Okay. The Clinic. I can only walk with this body-horror stuff so far and then you lose me. Franken-Manager is that line. That was creepier than  last week, yet also not anything I'm looking for in on-screen scenes in my corrupt-city-before-Batman procedural. Gross because you can isn't that interesting. I  enjoy Colm Feore, but this? Dial it back a bit, Show. Please.

 

Fish? Granted, it's pretty dim down there lighting-wise, but did no one notice that one of her eyes was blue? That she wasn't just walking around in clean clothes, but her face was swollen? I understand worrying about your survival more than another person's eye color. Yes, Fish is as much their friend as Franken-Manager, but, what was she supposed to do? Single-handedly kill the hospital? Free people who obviously don't trust her?  I am expecting someone to try and use/ modify Fish's methods now that Fish has "sold them out."  I am not fully convinced she has. Now she has more information and time to think. She did not promise to save all, so she hasn't reneged on her word. I want Butch to be looking for her in his "free" time. Butch and Harvey. But that's me.

 

Jim? At least he's aware that he's on a slippery slope. I hope Jim can find a way where he can do good if the vote goes his way. I just also hope he can work out from under some of the dirtier deals he's made as he does. I really don't believe he can be 100% pure in Gotham, but I bet the city's okay with a 70-90% clean guy.

 

Harvey! I don't really approve of the questioning method used on Grigg, but I chuckled and can't hate you for that. Now I want to see the picture he "always hated." I hope it's him all fancy and with short hair.

 

Dent? Still not sure about him. Not as assy as the last time, but I didn't mind him hanging around with Jim.

 

Oswald? His type: nutty, potentially murderous chicks. He gets it from his mom.  I also liked the beautiful green bottle he had. I appreciate that Don Moroni probably likes it too.  Does it taste like winning, Oswald?  Also? Buy more shells; you seemed to enjoy a shotgun! New hobby!

 

Edward? Give up  on Ms. Kringle, hon. She is stringing you along at worst. She didn't even ask what was behind your back. She refuses to be straight about her feelings. Ed, you deserve better. I think I know what's ahead for you, and I feel that way anyway. Plus? That cop probably stole that "riddle" from a bubble gum wrapper.

 

Bless Margie for being a quick-thinking AARP caretaker/bodyguard/hitwoman. I would think aging out of that job would be really hard, but you were pretty,pretty, pretty good. Too bad Penguin found you and you didn't have a cellphone.

 

Commissioner Loeb?  You are so oily, and I don't root for you, but you are a human, so I understand your post-wife evilness. I don't trust that that is when you started.

 

Bruce, Alfred and Cat will always be made of win. Alfred, it's been less than a day; sit your ass down! Bruce? You suck at stealth. Cat? They are prideful dudes. Please keep an eye out on 'em. They don't know they need it.

 

I missed Ivy, Montoya and Allen ( who should have been on Pennyworth patrol when they could), and Doctor Thompkins. Strangely, while I missed them, it would have been too crowded, so I'm okay with the absence. (Except there could've been a line about Montoya and Allen coming to keep guard after their shift.) Anywho.

 

Other than deciding to use CGI for squick-tastic nastiness, it was a pretty solid show.

[Raachel2008]

Kringle is a predator, she is  using these guys to egg Nygma on. Girl is a psycho.

 

Fish's new eye came straight from one of Game of Thrones' white walkers. Just saying.

 

"He looks just like a bird. I like birds". Oh, welcome nutcase. You will fit in beautifully.

 

"My Cobblepot didn't come back". Bullock, Harvey, telling things how they are.

 

Jim, that sound you are hearing? It is Gotham laughing it ass at you thinking yout beating the system.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Raachel2008

[Commando Cody]

I liked everything that didn't involve Fish's story line.  I thought the character was interesting for a while.  Now I think the writers are making the same mistake Grimm made with Adeline's story.  I never liked the Adeline character to begin with, but I felt that taking her out of the main plot and giving her a totally separate story was a mistake.  If they just let Fish's story end with her being trapped in the body part factory, I'm good with that.  Now we're going to be bouncing back and forth between what's happening in Gotham and the Fish story - which I'm not interested in.  

[Jlina]

Over the top grossness.  Bad.

 

Weird girl and Penguin...cute.  I really wanted to brush her damn hair, but they kind of matched that way.  lol

 

Jim not being 100% morally incorruptible.  Realism. Better to be winning at the game than fighting losing battles and he's finally realized it.  Plus I don't think Cobblepot would dare to ask for a completely reprehensible favor as he looks up to Jim. 

 

If he clung to incorruptible, there'd be no Gotham to need Batman, so I'm fine with it.  I don't necessarily think situational ethics are a slippery slide into evilness. 

 

But damn, show, a lot of them sure seem to be born evil on here.

[TobinAlbers]

As crazy as poor Miriam is, I kinda felt sorry for her: she's sick and legit needs help ( not the Arkham kind) and yet she's exactly the kind of creature you'd find in Arkham and the kind of broken crazy person who does bad things that Batman would find himself facing. The actress (Nichole Thom from The Nanny, right?) was perfect - just the right blend of seeming harmlessness and fragility mixed with potent violence- and I loved her describing killing the Starlings and then when she sees Oswald? And says he looks like a bird and that she likes birds? And her hands are just itching to touch his head? Soooo great. Even his not knowing her story yet, you could see the unease on his face at the way she was looking at him.

But if the caretakers are dead, and Jim didn't take her to Arkham, who's taking care of her now?

[benteen]

Good episode.  Oswald came back strong here and him tagging along with Jim and Harvey was a lot of fun.  They need to do that more often.

 

Making a deal with Oswald was dumb and Jim isn't thinking clearly.  Realizing it was better to deal with the devil you know with the Commissioner was surprisingly smart though and the union president job was a surprising but potentially very interesting storyline.

 

I liked Bruce, Alfred, and Selina stuff.

 

Fish's entire storyline is absolutely ridiculous.

[RandomWatcher]

Anyone else think that monk made bottle or whatever looked like a lantern?

[thuganomics85]

Ah, Colm Feore.  At least being The Dollmaker is a step up from Revolution. I like him, but I'm still extremely disappointed that not only was Jeffery Combs just a lacky, but he's already out of the picture.  Him and that voice of his, deserved to be a recurring villain.  I know his fate was suppose to be horrifying, but I couldn't stop giggling.  All of this is so ridiculous.  It's like Fish is in a completely different show then the rest (which, I guess makes sense, since Jada Pinkett Smith seems to act like she's in a different show then everyone else.)

 

Definitely think Jim is going to extremely regret what he did.  Oh, yes, both Flass and Loeb were threats, but "owing" Oswald a favor? When Bullock of all his people is telling you you've gone off the deep end, you might have actually gone off the deep end, Jim.  You should at least made sure that the favor would have limits, Jim.  Negotiate, buddy!  Interesting that he's also using this to run for union president himself.  It would be interesting if Gordon's rise in the GCPD is partially do to having to play the dirty and game the system.

 

Not surprised Bullock had some major dirt on him, but I loved him helping out at the end.  No way Jim and Harvey (hello again!), could handle that on their own.  Harvey was better this time, since the actor seemed to tone it down.

 

At least Alfred seems to better.  Looks like he and Bruce are going to keep what happen in-house, and take care of Reggie and Wayne Enterprise themselves.  Interesting.  Also, I'm sure Bruce will end up asking Selina for help in the end.

 

The actress playing Miriam kind of reminded me of a younger Gretchen Mol, and the character even reminded me of Gillian from Boardwalk Empire.  Interestingly though, the actress voiced Supergirl on Justice League.  That's pretty cool.

 

Edward, just quit getting your hopes up.  Mrs. Kringle does not want you.  Since I don't think this cop is from the comics like Flass, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being Edward's first victim.  Then again, they might continue to hold off on his turn.

 

Loved seeing Oswald go back to full-bad, by making the old people fight to the death, and then kill the winner.  That's what he's going to need to survive with the Falcones and Maronis in this city.  And whenever Fish finally comes back.

[ottoDbusdriver]

The actress playing Miriam kind of reminded me of a younger Gretchen Mol, and the character even reminded me of Gillian from Boardwalk Empire.  Interestingly though, the actress voiced Supergirl on Justice League.  That's pretty cool.

 

But her acting in that scene where the husband was shot and she just suddenly turned, barely bumped into a chair and tumbled to the floor, banging her head on the way down, was poorly done.

[Danielg342]

"She touched me!" Oh Nygma...you and your creepy goodness. Once they gave him something to do, The Riddler is really starting to shine.

Glad to see that Jim is finally working the system...he's learning. Yeah, this now means he's just as corrupt as the rest of the cops, but as Harvey so brazenly warned him before, "you gotta go along to get along." Jim can't fix the system without working it first, and now the Comissioner is in *his* back pocket.

Loved seeing Oswald get the upper hand on the old couple ("there was no train ticket! I had one shot left!") and having a ball with Bullock and Gordon. I did wonder, though, since Gordon promised five minutes with "the files" and all he turned up was Miriam Loeb...so does Oswald get "five minutes" with her? I do think they'd make a great couple, given they both love birds and, well, killing.

Still somewhat confused about the Dulmacher plot but at least it's starting to make a little bit of sense. I wonder if the Dulmacher has been playing Fish all this time- certainly that last scene where Fish realizes she's on a deserted island makes me wonder. Dulmacher was in total awe of Fish and didn't seem to flinch at all when Fish got fiesty with him- perhaps he knew what he was getting into, he just had to make sure Fish would get along with him first.

Finally, good to see Alfred alive and trying to get out of his bed. The old soldier never dies, does he? I'm also glad that, perhaps, Selina and Bruce are going to align themselves again- that's one lesson Bruce needs to learn: that, at this stage at least, if he wants to effect change, he needs to get help too.

All in all, very good tonight. Miffed I'll have to wait until April 13 for the next installment but at least that means we get a nice run to the finish at the end.

[Danielg342]

Only thing I hope doesn't happen (since there seemed to be some flashes of it) is for Bullock to turn evil. I don't think it'd be right for the character (given that he's a man of honour and a loyal friend to Jim, up to this point), plus he's my favourite character, so I'd probably leave the show if his characterization went too far south.

[Shanna]

So, Ivy sneaks into the hospital and steals food from the sickies.

I couldn't quite catch what she was stealing but that's actually pretty smart. Hospitals throw away tons of food. (Although you may want to make sure you aren't eating anything from someone with a contagious disease) Edited March 3, 2015 by Shanna

[Danielg342]

I couldn't quite catch what she was stealing but that's actually pretty smart. Hospitals throw away tons of food. (Although you may want to make sure you aren't eating anything from someone with a contagious disease)

Good point, although that probably won't cross the mind of a person on the street. All they care about is free food.

[shapeshifter]

Only thing I hope doesn't happen (since there seemed to be some flashes of it) is for Bullock to turn evil. I don't think it'd be right for the character (given that he's a man of honour and a loyal friend to Jim, up to this point), plus he's my favourite character, so I'd probably leave the show if his characterization went too far south.

In this episode I saw Bullock as more of the Jimminy Cricket (conscience) to Jim's Pinocchio (morally compromised). I would guess they originally planned to kill off Bullock to cause a change in Jim but realized Bullock is too great of a character to squander that way.

[darkestboy]

A pretty solid episode and a little better than last week's too.

Fish's rise into Dulmacher's management was pretty swift but I knew that somehow she was also marooned on an island as well. I don't think they can keep her there forever. She has to get back to Gotham at some point, right?

Gordon and Dent were out of their depth trying to stop Loeb. Of course Gordon would then get better results when he ended up working with Bullock and Oswald as well.

I liked learning a bit more about Loeb and Miriam was certainly an intriguing character as well. Gordon playing dirty to stop Flass from getting to the top was an interesting move as well.

Nygma should give up on Kringle and soon. Tom seemed nice but I see something horrible happening to him, courtesy of Nygma as well.

Nice that Alfred is still alive and I liked the Bruce/Selina scenes as well.

Can't wait for the final four episodes, 7/10

[Primetimer]

Doesn't every corrupt police commissioner have a crazy daughter locked in an attic somewhere?

Read the story

[mtlchick]

 

But her acting in that scene where the husband was shot and she just suddenly turned, barely bumped into a chair and tumbled to the floor, banging her head on the way down, was poorly done.

I think it was a cabinet as there was a lamp on it but yeah, that was a MAJOR distraction to me.  I was pretty much enjoy the entire scene until that happened. 

 

I didn't realize this was the last episode for a while so it didn't really sink in but it was pretty good. I was bit irked that Fish didn't get an eye patch but it wouldn't surprise me if Jada wasn't interested in wearing it (apparently when Samuel L Jackson has to wear it for Avengers related stuff it gives him a headache.) 

 

I do like that Gordon is becoming more flawed and that in order to do "good" in the future, he has to do back door deals with shady interests in the present time so I'm ok with gunning for Loeb.  But owing a favour to Oswald?  Has he NOT learned anything about him yet?

[shrewd.buddha]

I wondered why Gordon did not make finding Alfred's attempted murderer a priority investigation. ..Guess their stories were not supposed to overlap too much.

 

Gotham seems to work best when the stories do overlap and intersect, which makes the Fish story line seem even more odd. An unconnected story might not be too distracting for one episode, but this has been going on a while. I'd rather she arrive back in Gotham as a surprise, then get a bit of flashback. But it appears Fish must be part of every episode. Why is that? 

 

With Fish happily supplying the Dollmaker Doctor with prisoners and Penguin saving shotgun shells by getting old couples to turn on one another (that would have been a messy kill), Gotham spends a lot of its focus on some truly depraved characters. (And there are plenty of yet-to-be villains waiting to emerge.) With Gordon as the only source of light (and maybe young Bruce), I'm afraid this show could become something of a downer.  .. Still pretty to look at, tho... 

Edited March 3, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[HoodlumSheep]

Loved most of the episode. I'm mad about having to wait until April though.

Miriam was perfection. Poor girl, though. Being locked up in the attic of a house. At least Loeb seems to care about his daughter somewhat. I can see why he wouldn't want her tossed into Arkham. I wonder who's going to take care of her now. Jim agreeing to leave her situation alone was one of the things that show he's starting to head down a darker path. The girl needs help.

One of my main problems with Fish's story is that it seems like it no longer really connects with the rest of the story? Everyone else is stuck in Gotham, but she's stuck on an island somewhere doing whatever. I'm hoping they have a way of connecting the two stories.

Poor Nygma. I loved loved loved the score/ background? Music during his scenes. Would that be considered his theme? I'm secretly hoping they release a soundtrack for the show.

Love he Penguin. Especially love Penguin and Jim scenes.

Hmmm...something's been bugging me. Harvey said goodbye to Fish at the docks. Is it possible that he would know anything about what was going to happen with Fish at all, or was she just unlucky?

ETA: i love the kinda over-the-top zaniness this show has. Out of all the superhero shows on tv lately, this is the only one that makes me say "this is totally a comic book show." Like, I just love the whole vibe Gotham has.

Edited March 3, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[TobinAlbers]

 

Miriam was perfection. Poor girl, though. Being locked up in the attic of a house. At least Loeb seems to care about his daughter somewhat.

He does, but I did love that he pushed back  at Jim with 'I love my daughter, but I love living, too' LOL.  There was a limit to how much Jim could use Miriam to squeeze Loeb.

 

But unless Jim has his own eyes keeping tabs on Miriam, that girl is a serial killing spree waiting to happen and he'll hold some responsibility for it by not having her properly detained.

 

Gotta give Peter Scolari props, he's playing calculating, stiffer-backbone-than-you-think-not-so-nice-guy quite well.

[Traveller519]

We are becoming so stuffed with characters here. It's good that it allows for different storylines to play out, but it is tough keeping tabs on everyone. I worry I may have forgotten about a lot of things in the next month.

 

This Fish story needs to go somewhere. Have we even addressed who her captors were since the ending of Rocky III there a few weeks back?

[Spartan Girl]

If Nygma wasn't so creepy, I'd almost feel sorry for him.

 

I'm starting to love the Penguin.  The way he dealt with the two old people was a move worthy of a Magnificent Bastard. 

[TwistedandBored]

This was a solid episode and set-up what it is to come in the final 4 episode of season 1. I loved Penguins interactions with both Harvey and Gordon. I also loved seeing how Harvey made that guy talk. JPK aka Fish has this power walk that is just amazing to watch. She is soo tiny but oozes charisma that would make you believe she is a leader no matter what the situation she find herself in. I wonder what Island Fish is stuck on? 

[VCRTracking]

Peter Scolari: playing fathers of immature adult women since 2012.

 

Also, Lindsay Weir's mom wielding a shotgun and taking a shotgun blast to the face!

Edited March 3, 2015 by VCRTracking

[opus]

Loved most of the episode. I'm mad about having to wait until April though.

 

Soon you're gonna have to wait till September  :)

[KirkB]

Wait, the old lady tripped? I didn't even see that. I couldn't work out what the hell was going on in that scene. One second she was up and shooting, the next she was down and moaning.

[Sakura12]

Wait, the old lady tripped? I didn't even see that. I couldn't work out what the hell was going on in that scene. One second she was up and shooting, the next she was down and moaning.

 

I had no clue what happened either. I was like did they shoot her and I somehow missed it?

[marcee]

Why did Penguin steal the couple only to kill them? Couldn't he have killed them in the farmhouse? What was the point of that?

[MadyGirl1987]

I had no clue what happened either. I was like did they shoot her and I somehow missed it?

She tripped and hit her head.

 

Overall a good episode. I liked the theme that everyone has skeletons in their past. Also; I thought Jim was not getting help from Oswald anymore! What gives? Loeb's daughter was creepy. I am not that versed much in the Batman comics, is she a villain of some sort?

[MisterGlass]

Only thing I hope doesn't happen (since there seemed to be some flashes of it) is for Bullock to turn evil. I don't think it'd be right for the character (given that he's a man of honour and a loyal friend to Jim, up to this point), plus he's my favourite character, so I'd probably leave the show if his characterization went too far south.

In this episode I saw Bullock as more of the Jimminy Cricket (conscience) to Jim's Pinocchio (morally compromised). I would guess they originally planned to kill off Bullock to cause a change in Jim but realized Bullock is too great of a character to squander that way.

 

 

I would be very sad if Bullock truly went evil because as is he is a compromised but will character, and I'd be equally sad if he died.  I agree that in the long haul Bullock may be what keeps Jim pointed in the right direction.  Jim has done a lot for Bullock by reminding him of what it means to work toward an ideal, and I think Bullock can do the same for Jim.  He's innoculated to the crime and despair, and can endure whatever comes next better than Jim.  That moment when Jim handed over the file on Bullock, and Bullock's speech about a person believing that after a compromise they can make up for it, was touching.  Harvey can bring the humor and the sorrow in equal measure.

[JoeSchwike]

But her acting in that scene where the husband was shot and she just suddenly turned, barely bumped into a chair and tumbled to the floor, banging her head on the way down, was poorly done.

This seemed contrived and shoddy to me, but after seeing the final scene with Penguin and the old couple, and thinking it over, I think this was deliberately staged.  Penguin told them about 'the deal' they had, that he would let them go and get them out of Gotham.  I think the implication was he made the deal ahead of their visit.  He knew where the house was, and while he was nervous to go in, he didn't seem too surprised.  This way he gets Jim and Bullock into the house, they make it look like they're still doing their job for Falcone, but Jim and Bullock get what they want (which gets Penguin his time with the files).  So when the fight happens, she deliberately fell near Penguin so he could cover them.  I think he was just as surprised to find the girl, and knew he couldn't just let the old couple get away.

 

I may be off base, but as wacky as some of the plots have been, that's how I took it.

At least Alfred seems to better.  Looks like he and Bruce are going to keep what happen in-house, and take care of Reggie and Wayne Enterprise themselves.  Interesting.  Also, I'm sure Bruce will end up asking Selina for help in the end.

 

I saw this as forshadowing Bruce's turn to vigilantism, learning (from Alfred) that you can't depend on the police, sometimes you take matters into  your own hands.  

[Actionmage]

e

but Jim and Bullock get what they want (which gets Penguin his time with the files).

 

The DH was watching this before going to work and noted that Gordon and Bullock never did find the files. They found Miriam.

 

Because the episode was very full, there could be a dropped scene, but then why did Loeb have to give Jim Bullock's file? If they had found the files, then the negotiation between Loeb and Gordon would be unnecessary. If there's a double-secret triple-cross or something, I'd be okay, sorta. The audience was left with the impression that no file was to be found at that farmhouse. Then again, Penguin overheard Falcone, so that made me suspect the info anyway.

 

As for Miriam, I was expecting her to know all these "stories" about her Daddy's "friends"; that Miriam was the file, but I guess not.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Seemed to me like a couple of scenes of this episode were channeling Sin City -- the scene where Bullock was threatening Loeb's partner by potentially putting him to the ground, and the notion that the bad guys have their secret at a farm.

 

Also, it seems that having a police commissioner endorse a union president is not what a union president would want. Police commissioners are management, and a union leader's job is to negotiate with and stand up to management.

 

Not to mention that endorsement or no, as far as we know only two cops can stand Gordon -- Bullock and Essen. The notion that he could win a popular election is pretty ludicrous.

[shapeshifter]

I wondered why Gordon did not make finding Alfred's attempted murderer a priority investigation....

Because when Bruce and Alfred claimed they didn't see the attacker, it was obvious to Gordon that they were lying, so I guess he respected their preference to not involve the police.

The DH was watching this before going to work and noted that Gordon and Bullock never did find the files. They found Miriam.

 

Because the episode was very full, there could be a dropped scene, but then why did Loeb have to give Jim Bullock's file? If they had found the files, then the negotiation between Loeb and Gordon would be unnecessary. If there's a double-secret triple-cross or something, I'd be okay, sorta. The audience was left with the impression that no file was to be found at that farmhouse. Then again, Penguin overheard Falcone, so that made me suspect the info anyway.

Loeb gave Gordon Bullock's file so Gordon wouldn't tell anyone about Miriam.

[Actionmage]

Loeb gave Gordon Bullock's file so Gordon wouldn't tell anyone about Miriam.

 



Yes, but Loeb gave the one file to Gordon. Their mission was to find all the files and, essentially, free all the cops with blackmail material from having to do what Team Mobster says. They failed in their mission, as far as the episode is telling us, because Loeb still has dirt on everyone ( I really doubt there isn't copies of Harvey's file).   Oswald was promised a favor if he helped them find the files. It hasn't happened, so Jim doesn't owe Penguin anything.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I think you're misconstruing what Gordon's mission was. 

 

He was shown getting pissed off that Flass -- known to him to be a murderer -- was going to not only walk but also was gloating that he would be the next head of the police union. Then on top of that, he was undermined by Harvey backtracking and upset that learned that Harvey was basically forced to backtrack by Loeb and his ample files on everyone.

I don't think Gordon had a mission beyond getting Flass tried, and maybe getting Harvey out from Loeb's thumb. He accomplished that, as far as we are supposed to believe. We have to ignore the fact that the files could be copied and that in any case, Loeb or his minions still retain the knowledge contained in the file on Harvey.

 

By definition, Gordon and Harvey can't have unqualified success. 

 

Getting Loeb's files and using them to prosecute half of GCPD seems like a pipe dream on its face, as crazy as taking Falcone down single-handedly.

[Danielg342]

I'd probably say *any* victory in Gotham is small, because everything is so deeply entrenched that you can't just shake it in one go. Gordon tried in "The Penguin's Umbrella" and it blew up in his face. So I'd like to think that he's learned the process will be long and frustrating, but if he chips away, he'll have inevitable results.

As for Bullock, I'll agree with what others are saying in that I can see him as Jim's needed "anchor" to keep him from going too far, while Bullock needs Jim because Jim represents his one chance at hope. I know it's been said once before that the series wants to paint things as so bleak that Gordon needs a vigilante to help him out, but after this episode I see things differently- that through Gordon, the hopeless finally see that there is the possibility that things can change and that should inspire people, like Bruce Wayne, to help out. I'll also bet, though, that the series will likely tell us that Gordon's ultimate compromise- to work with the system in order to change it- still needs to continue with Batman around, but at least with Batman he'll have a very valuable weapon.

[darkestboy]

Peter Scolari: playing fathers of immature adult women since 2012.

 

Also, Lindsay Weir's mom wielding a shotgun and taking a shotgun blast to the face!

Now that isn't fair. Miriam is far more mature than Hannah Horvath. Then again, so would Michael Myers.

[Amerilla]

Six weeks? I hate watching shows in real-time.

 

At first I thought Jim's sort of "oh well, whatever" attitude towards Alfred's near-murder was a bit odd, especially since it was pretty obvious they knew more than they were saying. I agree with an earlier poster that it was partially a continuity thing - they needed some carryover from last episode, but this wasn't the A story.

 

That said, it fits a wider theme of the show: Jim's tunnel-vision. He can see a certain type of corruption - the nexus between organized crime and the DA and the GCPD. He thinks he can fix that, and the world will get better. But at this point, he's completely blind to the fact that Wayne Enterprises is just as dangerous as the Falcones and Maronis of the world, and that's leaving Bruce and Alfred (and even Selina) in a very precarious spot.

 

Speaking of Alfred...he really gave Baby Batman a life lesson here. Don't snitch, and take care of your own trash. He's not going to rat out his "mate," but he's pretty clearly aiming to do some damage outside the strict parameters of the law. It's reinforcing the lessons Bruce is already learning about the limits of the system.  

 

Wow, Nygma took a solid step towards Riddler-hood in this one. Kringle's new boy-toy is probably the first person we've met that hasn't instantly treated Nygma with either contempt or derision...but, he tells a really lame, childish riddle. That Kringle would be attracted to that, after the efforts Nygma has put in to come up with clever riddles for her, clearly stuck in his craw. So much of what we know about Ed at this point comes from his facial expressions, and CMS nailed that look of pure rage that leads a boy down the road to super-villain-dom.

[Snookums]

Edward? Give up  on Ms. Kringle, hon. She is stringing you along at worst.

 

 

I'd say she's stringing him along at best. I think she actually likes him and doesn't want him to end up in the crawl space with all the other guys who thought they were her boyfriends. Helpful hint? Only nutters wear their initials on their sweaters unironically. 

 

Why did Penguin steal the couple only to kill them? Couldn't he have killed them in the farmhouse? What was the point of that?

 

 

 

Basically he knew he couldn't risk shooting them with Harvey and Jim there. Jim wouldn't believe any story Oswald could concoct and Harvey would shoot him as soon as look at him. So he tells them he's with Falcone, who isn't going to be too happy about this turn of events, so leave now and I'll meet you at my club later and get you out of town and none of us end up in a car crusher or at the bottom of the river. So they do, where he has them turn on each other and shoots Miriam. Lots easier and no trail for either Falcone or the cops to follow. Oswald's pretty smart in a corner. It's when he has the whole room that he messes up. 

 

Also, I loved Miriam's delighted "new birdie!" routine and Penguin's "the FUCK?" expression. Even with his mom and life this flavor of crazy is weirding him out. 

 

And poor Miriam. Okay, she clonked mom and Loeb didn't want her locked up in Arkham, but it's not like a freezing attic in the middle of nowhere is really that much better. Plus, he apparently has never brought her a hairbrush the entire time! What the hell is it with Gotham? Why does everybody act like there's nowhere else on the entire planet to send your mentally ill loved ones or get a police job?

Edited March 5, 2015 by Snookums

[MisterGlass]

 

I think she actually likes him and doesn't want him to end up in the crawl space with all the other guys who thought they were her boyfriends. Helpful hint? Only nutters wear their initials on their sweaters unironically.

 

I am glad I'm not the only one who thought the initialed sweater was a big red flag!

[Old House Nut]

I would never make it in Fish's position, mainly because I don't pick up on things as quickly. If the doctor had shown me the view from the window, the conversation would have played out differently:

 

Doctor: So, you can see I have no reason to worry about your escaping. [brooding music swells]

Me: Why? Because you live on the seashore. So what?

Doctor: [sigh] Hold that thought. Follow me.

Me: Why? Where are we going?

Doctor: To the other side of the house to look out a window over there.

Me: Why?

Doctor: Just trust me. 

[Perfect Xero]

I'd say she's stringing him along at best. I think she actually likes him and doesn't want him to end up in the crawl space with all the other guys who thought they were her boyfriends. Helpful hint? Only nutters wear their initials on their sweaters unironically. 

 

I've been assuming that she's the actual mastermind behind Flass's drug operation.

[mostlylurking]

Crazy attic girl saying Penguin looks just like a bird made me literally laugh out loud. Not getting Fish's story at all but Jade Pinkett Smith has never looked better (blue eye and all).