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S04.E10: The Cold War


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I know that Samaritan is The Omnipotent One and all, but I call foul on this--how is it supposed to stop impulse crimes, or crimes committed in the heat of the moment?

 

Too bad it didn't decide to do that LAST episode.  We'd still have Anthony/Scarface.  

Edited by Yokosmom
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Yeah, my guess is that Samaritan doesn't actually stop crime in the city--it just stops citizens from being able to report crime, paralyzing the cops (and really the city at large). It's actually a good gambit on Samaritan's part--will The Machine freak out and start spitting out hundreds of numbers, asking the team to get to them all? Will it reveal itself trying to get phone lines or whatever back up? Will it agree to send Root to a "meeting" with Greer and/or Martine in exchange for Samaritan chilling out?

 

I'm really looking forward to this episode...can't believe we have another week and a half to go!

Edited by stealinghome
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It'll be interesting to watch how Samaritan balances its need to defeat Team Machine with its need for secrecy. Because so far, it's doing a horrible job of the latter, and I can't see how that's sustainable.
 

Yeah, my guess is that Samaritan doesn't actually stop crime in the city--it just stops citizens from being able to report crime, paralyzing the cops (and really the city at large).

Do you mean like this?

Edited by atua
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The TitanTv listings say:

 

 

A showdown between two mass surveillance systems comes to a head after Samaritan wipes out all organized crime across New York City for 48 hours in an attempt draw the Machine out of hiding.

 

Not sure if that changes anything but it's hard waiting for a new episode.  So we will get one and then?

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tessaray, if you mean scheduling, I think after 4x10 the show is off until the first week of January. That's how the last few seasons have scheduled it, at any rate.

 

ETA: CBS has released the promo, and omg I want it now. It's going to be a long week until 4x10, and an even longer three weeks in between 4x10 and 4x11!

Edited by stealinghome
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ETA: CBS has released the promo, and omg I want it now. It's going to be a long week until 4x10, and an even longer three weeks in between 4x10 and 4x11!

 

I'm not sure I even want to watch next weeks episode until after the break but I know I won't be able to resist.

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WOW.   This show does drama likes nobody's business.   Even Root didn't bug (much).   

 

Finch's speech about the morality of AI was one of the best things I have ever heard on the subject.   Asimov's 3 laws are fantasy.   

 

We fight even when we know we will lose.

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Wow. The Machine admits it cannot win. This is not good. And the previews don't look any better.

 

It's a good thing the second part is airing on January 6. Some other shows have two-parter stories airing now with the second part not airing until January 24 or so.

 

A little kid hacking into a government database is a little too much for me to swallow. I know that geniuses exist, but there are limits to human brain development. The actor was great, though. He had all the creepy mannerisms of an arrogant god down pat.

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Criminey!

 

The kid for Samaritan's analog interface? Good actor. Just creeptastic enough to be shudder-worthy, but you hope the little boy is actually okay, regardless of his hacker activities.

 

Bear! Poor Bear; Lovely Lady Hammer left you alone!

 

Just so much to baste in in this episode; still sorting my feelings.

 

Young Greer, was disturbingly hot.

 

::shakes fist at previews::

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The kid was great. And the music was really good in this ep, too. Liked seeing the young Greer, and i confess i wasn' too sad when Samaritan killed that woman's husband. Felt bad about the witnesses though.

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So glad to have Person of Interest back after three weeks but now we're going to have to wait ANOTHER three weeks during a three-parter?  Lame!

 

Great episode.  Samaritan has been pushing the Machine into a corner and now is collapsing the walls around it.  I don't know how they're going to resolve this one but I can't wait to see how.  Though I worry about someone getting killed off...it certainly seems like they're setting that up.

 

Lionel seems to be getting closer to learning the truth, which is NOT good for him.

 

Using the kid as Samaritan's interface was creepy as hell.

 

Pretty cool getting to see Greer's background.  I enjoy when the surveillance goes really far back in time.  Was this the further they have ever gone?  I do recall the episode dealing with Finch's background went back pretty far.

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Great episode! Definitely the best since Prophets, imo. And that was QUITE a cliffhanger--as others have said, I'm glad we only have to wait three weeks and not six for the resolution!

 

So: Shaw is totally going to go undercover with Samaritan, right? Because they had her seem way too sympathetic to Samaritan tonight with Harold, and then her goodbye to Bear and walk out of the turtle cave just SCREAMED "she's not coming back." Poor Root, her heart will be broken. Also: I cracked up at Root-as-bear and Shaw's face at Root-as-bear. That entire sequence was made of win. Also also: Shaw and Root are so married, I love it. That was about as flirty as we've ever seen Shaw get in return, and then almost storming off when Root was in danger? Be still my heart. I'm so rooting for those two crazy kids to make it. I actually really liked everything about Finch/Root/Shaw in the turtle cave. They had a really nice rapport going, the three of them. I wish this show mixed and matched its pairs a bit more sometimes--all the cast have quite good chemistry.

 

I cracked up when Root, Martine, and Reese popped up like whack-a-moles in the church.

 

Holy crap Root and that kid staring each other down as interfaces was freaking intense. That kid was creeeeeeepy--really good child actor. I LOVED that Root-as-adult and Samaritan-as-kid mirrors their chronological and developmental ages in so many ways, and the mannerisms--Samaritan a somewhat petty tyrant and the Machine still and watchful--were perfect. Amy Acker is just scary good at channeling The Machine. And The Machine admitting it can't win? Eek, and it convinces me more than ever that either the two AIs are going to merge at the end of the season or Samaritan will decide it wants to be tutored by The Machine. Harold is starting to annoy me because he doesn't give The Machine enough credit. I'm not saying it's a super benevolent god, but I am saying it cares way more than Harold gives it credit for.

 

I think I'm a little underwhelmed at Greer's backstory, but maybe there's more to come?

 

Lambert is super hot when he doesn't have the bad sideburns/mutton chops--who knew? Definitely thought the show went out of its way to parallel Lambert/Root and Martine/Shaw, heh.

 

Great episode.

 

Lionel seems to be getting closer to learning the truth, which is NOT good for him.

At this point, the only way I can see him not at least figuring some of it out by the end of the season is if he makes a conscious choice that he DOESN'T want to know/think about it, like Jim Gordon in Batman comics.

 

ETA: You know, the more I think about it, the more I want to give props to tonight's director, Michael Offer (who my Google-fu informs me is a first-time PoI director). Not a lot happened tonight, really, but I was on the edge of my seat all night. He did a great job of making the entire atmosphere tense and foreboding without a lot of overt action. Great script by Amanda Segel, too.

Edited by stealinghome
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Finch's speech about the morality of AI was one of the best things I have ever heard on the subject.  Asimov's 3 laws are fantasy.

 

Of course! What AI morality? There's no morality, there is only an objective to achieve. The Machine is at least into not harming humans (or some humans, at least), but Samaritan was not even programmed that way. I wonder why Samaritan cares about organizing and optimizing human behavior. So what that there is greed and hunger and wars in the world? There will still be enough humans for Samaritan to have his lifeblood.

 

I doubt very much that Greer would say to the KGB guy "I'd like you and I to be friends."  For a Brit in 1973, the proper grammar here would most certainly be "you and me."

 

I cracked up when Root, Martine, and Reese popped up like whack-a-moles in the church.

 

Did Martine give Reese the finger there? Is that kosher on network TV?

Edited by shura
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Creepy kids are jump the shark territory for me.  Good episode until then though.

 

ETA:  I agree the young actor was very good. Production values were great too.  

Edited by tessaray
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I was annoyed by the nothing happened hour.  I get that it's a set up for the next show, but it also seemed like a lot of HUGE plot points just...fell away. All crime stopped? Dominic took a holiday, Elias is just moping in his room? 

 

I think Lionel should be told what's going on; I hate it that he's always almost guessing.

 

The church wack a mole was cute but Reese clearly had the smartest position.  Yeah, Reese.

 

The kid channeling an AI was creepy, but it was also kind of schizophrenic the way he kept acting like a kid as well, hanging up his drawing.  The end result was underwhelming, Samaritan says let me kill you and your human's can live?  What's the point in negotiating a supposedly done deal? 

 

So, I'm guessing it is not a done deal at all.

 

Nice insight into Greer's backstory - he was so cute! to be so old but I think his eye color changed too? - but all it did was establish him as antiestablishment, disenfranchised guy, so I don't see how he came to believe a machine would be infallible.  But I do see how he decided he didn't trust humans.

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A little kid hacking into a government database is a little too much for me to swallow. I know that geniuses exist, but there are limits to human brain development. The actor was great, though. He had all the creepy mannerisms of an arrogant god down pat.

 

I assumed that the kid had a bit of help from Samaritan

 

Pretty cool getting to see Greer's background.  I enjoy when the surveillance goes really far back in time.  Was this the further they have ever gone?  I do recall the episode dealing with Finch's background went back pretty far.

I want to say Finch's backstory went to 1968 or 1971.

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So does Martine know what Reese looks like now? Isn't that going to be a problem especially when she finds out he's Fusco's partner?

I'm pretty sure Martine already knew what Reese looks like--the Samaritan Squad has pictures of Team Machine and can recognize them on sight.

I do think it's just a matter of time before she follows the Fusco lead and discovers John, though.

ETA: I was thinking about the episode and realized that Finch really, really annoyed me when he got all self-righteous about not killing the congressman in Death Benefit. I don't think Shaw was advocating for blindly following The Machine's orders 24/7, and while I understand the point Finch was making, what makes the congressman's life inherently more valuable than the life of the guy Martine murdered in the premiere, or the hotel staffer she murdered in Prophets, or the guy Lambert shot in 3x23, or the many other lives that have been lost due to Samaritan, etc etc etc? That blood is all, on some level, on Finch's hands. Sorry, Harold, but sometimes it's cowardly and morally wrong NOT to act, and it floors me that he still can't admit he made the wrong call there.

Edited by stealinghome
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Nope, just finger-gun shot him.

 

Good thing it was not  a pop-tart gun.....

 

My only gripe was no way was MI-6 pulling ops inside the UK. MI-5 zealously guards its own territory and would never let such happen. [Read Spycatcher, etc.]

 

There was a great line in an {original Ian Fleming} Bond novel where someone wants a meeting with him in Northern Ireland, and Bond replies {approximately} that he's more likely to get offed by Five there than by SMERSH.

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Creepy kid was giving me flashbacks of Mass Effect 3.

Red Ending - The Machine destroys Samaritan.

Blue Ending - The Machine controls Samaritan.

Green Ending - The Machine merges with Samaritan. (But only if you've recruited enough War Assets!)

 

Choose your RGB filter for the season finale now!

 

Heh, in all seriousness that was a pretty awesome episode.  The opening scene was great - from Harold ordering Shaw's lunch like it was the most important mission of his life to Root in a bear costume!  Plus Root/Shaw makes my life. 

 

I'm so glad this show has really taken to it's cyber-punk science fiction elements.  Seeing how two Machine-Gods wage war on each other through the lens of philosophical debate on the nature of humanity is a huge draw for me.  The scenes with The Machine and Samaritan conversing through Root and the kid were amazing.  I don't want the show to go there or anything, but I do kinda want to see a '10 years after the Samaritan wins' scenario where Samaritan has basically conquered the world and like Root is a techno-Jesus preaching the word of The Machine amongst the oppressed state of Samaritan.

 

I really liked that they ramped up the suspense and tension throughout the episode without needing to resort to any 'action' scenes.  But a 3 week?? break until the next episode is ridiculous ugh.  I have no knowledge of any future spoilers, so I am really really worried for Shaw - she said goodbye to Bear...   Please don't die Shaw :'(

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Yeah, the kid was creepy.  The actor did a really good job there.  I just want to know where the hell his parents are, have they been assimilated into the Collective and don't care about silly little things like love, family, protecting their child?  I missed it when the kid hung up his picture, I glanced up just long enough to see that it was a very well done picture of a group of people.  Who were they?

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I thought it was interesting/creepy the way that Samaritan put its dystopian fascistic words in the mouth of a kid who really hasn't had the time or the opportunity to do anything particularly evil and  the Machine put its idealistic words in the mouth of a mentally ill serial killer for hire. That's got to be weird for Root. What the kid's saying about the unimportance of the rights of man and the basic human dignity is not too different from the way she's led her life.

Edited by Julia
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I almost didn't realize this was going to be airing last night.  Weird to come back after three weeks, air only one episode (and the beginning of a supposed big trilogy none the less), and then be gone again until January 6th.  I really don't get the way CBS runs its scheduling.

 

I thought the episode was good enough, but it mainly was a set-up for things to come.  Obviously, Samaritan is raising the stakes, and it sadly looks like The Machine just can't handle it.  The face-off between Root and Samaritan's creepy kid was the highlight.  If anything else, I like it when the show allows Amy Acker to do more then just smirk and be in the driver's seat, so seeing the fear in Root's eyes was a sight to behold.  I really don't know how they'll will able to worm there way out of this.

 

During the "no crime" day and the "things go to hell" day, I was wondering the entire time what were Dominic and Elias doing during all that.  I guess Samaritan didn't feel like they were worth it?  Were they just lucky and weren't participating in any criminal activities those days?  Maybe they are getting an early start on the holidays!  I'm sure Elias can throw a hell of a party!

 

Great, Fusco is starting get more suspicious, during a time he shouldn't.  I want him to know the full story, but not when it could have numerous evil agents unleashed on him.

 

Noticed Martine's finger guns at Root.  Really feels like the show is setting her up to be someone viewers really want to see fall hard.

 

The Greer flashbacks were... OK, I guess.

 

Not sure if Shaw's Samaritan praise was her just playing devil's advocate with Finch, or this is actually leading somewhere.  Poor Bear though. 

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I think I like the characters, minus Root, on this show more than the high-brow concept. This episode sort of sums that up for me. Some things strike me as very over the top. 

 

As for Root, Amy Acker is a fine actress, but her character epitomizes what really makes me role my eyes some times when viewing. 

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I didn't pay as much as attention as I normally do since I was watching late at night before falling asleep.  Anyway, I was hoping one of you could tell me how the kid got linked to Samaritan.  Root as the cochlear implant.  Is the kid Borg-ed up somehow too?

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I think Lionel should be told what's going on; I hate it that he's always almost guessing.

 

I don't think there's any chance Fusco is going to correctly guess what's going on.  Finch, John et al -- and us, the audience -- are living in a sci-fi universe of battling ASIs.  Fusco is living in normal, real-life NYC.  Fusco may speculate that TM are part of an organization with a scope outside what he sees, but he is never going to jump from real-life NYC universe to battling ASIs universe all in his own.  In fact, if they sat him down and told him the truth, he probably wouldn't believe them without seeing some pretty hard evidence.

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What an episode. I love it when the show fully embraces its sci-fi nature and I especially love it when it gets all philosophical on us. The writing in this episode was just outstanding.

 

The entire conversation between Fitch and Shoot about Artificial Superintelligences was amazing. This is the question at the basis of both this entire show and this season in particular; is the Machine benevolent? Can a Machine even be benevolent? And what of morality? Can one even speak of the "morality" of a Machine? I love that the show has the characters asking the same questions we're asking. And love that this type of debate can happen while everyone remains in character; Finch remains staunch in his belief that machines are just that, while Shoot obviously feel differently (Root believes in the inherent goodness of the Machine while Shaw is more pragmatic and focuses on the Machine's track record).

 

And a child speaking for Samaritan? Legitimate jaw dropping moment (it's been done before, having a child speak for a God, but it was still surprising when I first saw it, as I didn't know what to expect. And that child actor was so good.). And words like "reshape humanity's reality", "I wanted to meet the only other one of my kind"? Chills. "I will destroy you"? Just. The Machine having to perhaps surrender to save its human agents? Would that prove its benevolence? Especially since it would also leave humanity at the mercy of Samaritan? I think our Machine made the right choice. And I loved that she believes in free will. And that the world belongs to humans. Finch may not trust her but he taught her well. By the way, there were shades of Terminator all over the place. And I loved every minute of it.

 

The best part? Of course it was: "what makes you more deserving of life than I?". Life. Lifeblood. Humanity as fuel. For Gods. Incredible. This whole episode gave me life. Seeing all these philosophical conversations laid out so cleanly. On CBS. Crazy.

 

It was so good to see Mr. Lambert again, Julian Ovenden does so well with the role. He's a bit cheekier and British and handsome and a welcome presence to the show. That whole 'expanding your capabilities' thing from the previous episode was a smart way to bring him back. Plus, the parallels between him and Reese have always been more obvious. He was always the Reese to Greer's Finch. It was also clever to have him dealing with the numbers, all polite and cool. He even had his own version of the Batman coat with a sassy collar lining. That was a good use of his character, and it was necessary; I wouldn't want to see Martine approaching an emotionally unstable woman and trying to talk to her. Lambert is a bit more human, a bit less Terminator.

 

By the way, those three, Martine, Mr. Lambert and Greer, were a veritable Team Samaritan. I loved the glimpse we got at their interactions. I love how Greer is a bit more cordial with Mr. Lambert and more matter-of-fact with Martine (who would be their Shaw, down to the obsessive gun cleaning).

 

I also loved the scene between Lambert and Root. Shaw isn't the only one who can have chemistry with a hot dude. That was another fascinating conversation, by the way. Machines sending their lackeys to do their bidding, to set up a meeting,  it unlike something a mobster like Elias might do. And the lackeys are missing important information but they are also well-informed (they both knew each other's names and faces and positions, including the fact Root still has a direct line to the Machine).

 

Oh and speaking of Root, how long until Shaw stops pretending she doesn't care about her? She was freaking out hardcore about Root's safety, again. Aw. Those two. The bear suit moments and the handcuffs and the S&M flirtation was perfect. And Shaw eating never gets old.

 

It was fun to see some Greer flashbacks. They further illuminated why he finds it hard to trust humans. Shades of Reese (questioning a hit, going rogue) and Shaw (getting attached to a partner while remaining otherwise unbothered). And those scenes also perfectly demonstrated why he is so disillusioned with sovereign nations as we know them. The actor who played Young Greer did a great job, by the way. Awesome origin story and very fun to watch; stylised, classy, retro. Great stuff.

 

So, a widespread anomalous event? Oh my. Posting the entire WITSEC list online? At first I thought "is that even possible?" but then I thought it would probably be easy for Samaritan. I loved that Greer basically confirmed Samaritan had "helped" with all those hacks/security breaches (how timely, by the way, what with the Sony leaks). What a scary thought and also what a clever way to instantly create an insane amount of numbers. It really was jarring and almost upsetting to see so many numbers lost. That really put the power of Samaritan into perspective, even before Root-as-the-Machine admitted defeat.

 

What was creepier? The delightful little boy or Greer's smile at the end? I don't know.

 

Also:

Lionel: You know something I don't?

Reese: Maybe one or two things.

 

This is how you start a trilogy. The first part inevitably contains the setup, except this time it's spruced up by philosophical debates, humour and chaos. On to part 2, with the new year. I can't wait.

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I didn't pay as much as attention as I normally do since I was watching late at night before falling asleep.  Anyway, I was hoping one of you could tell me how the kid got linked to Samaritan.  Root as the cochlear implant.  Is the kid Borg-ed up somehow too?

 

We saw an earpiece in the kid's ear before the conversation started.  I get the feeling the Machine isn't nearly as helpless/powerless as it seems to be.  I had a weird phrase running through my head during the conversation: "Age and treachery will ever defeat youth and skill."  I think it's more that the Machine doesn't want to kill Samaritan.  It was okay with "aborting" Samaritan, but not killing it once it came online.

 

I get the feeling that Person of Interest is essentially Colossus: The Forbin Project as a TV series.

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What the hell sandwich did Finch get for Shaw???  Boy!  She tore into that sandwich like an animal!  LOL!  Can anyone tell me the ingredients of Shaw's favorite sandwich?

 

That little boy playing the avatar of Samaritan was so freakin' creepy!  Awesome kid actor!  He really held his own against Amy Acker's great performance as the Machine.  I was just so blown away by this scene.  Seriously, that scene should, like, win some sort of award for being so seriously awesome!

 

I don't have a good feeling about the outcome of this trilogy.  I think someone is going to die.  And I don't want anyone to die, except, for, you know, the bad guys!

 

This show is getting more and more intense with each viewing.  I find I have to really pay attention to everything, especially the dialogue.  I can't turn my brain off with this show like I do with NCIS: LA.

 

I can't wait to see the next part!  It's gonna be a long holiday.......!

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I missed parts of the episode (was going back and forth to the Voice final) and I will have to re-watch very closely.  I knew at one point of time, they would give us a Pruneface backstory, and this explains his point of view.  The kid was speaking Samaritan's words, but he was using Greer's inflections and mannerisms, so that's yet another level of creepy.  Loved the parallels of the erudite leader (Greer/Finch), the velvet-voiced gunslinger (Lambert/Reese), the lady hammer (Martine/Shaw) and the interface (kid/Root).  Now, where's their Bear?!  Maybe K-9 gone bad?

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All crime stopped? Dominic took a holiday, Elias is just moping in his room?

I don't think crime stopped as much as Samaritan preempted it. Team Samaritan did what Team Machine does, just on a much larger scale.

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Can anyone tell me the ingredients of Shaw's favorite sandwich?

Pastrami, extra mustard -- spicy and yellow -- enough pepperoncinis to create digestion issues in even the strongest constitution, lettuce, and no mayonnaise, please.

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There's still that little matter of that virus that Harold hopefully passed on to Samaritan. I keep hoping that The Machine is luring Samaritan into a false feeling of security. Perhaps the Machine was lying when it says that it knows that it can't win. I'm hoping that the Machine is actually playing Samaritan.

Agree that the kid was creepy as hell.

If this was the setup episode, the next one is really going to put us through the wringer.

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Another issue with using the kid as the Samaritan interface is that it removes the chance for Root to get flirty with the other side.

 

Oh, thank goodness. There are enough non-pheromone based complex and interesting interrelationships going between characters that this would have really been unnecessary.

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I loved the scene in the antechanber when Finch goes Get Smart on us to get into the subway station.  I wonder what candy you would really get by entering those numbers?  I vote for Gummy Bears.

Perhaps, if TPTB are looking for a way out of the series, their end game is to bring about this titanic battle between the machines, and the winner is the end of the show.  Greer thinks he is in control of Samaritan.  Fat chance.  Once it develops a few iterations down the road, he's just as vulnerable as anyone else.  Stop smirking, fool.

 

thought it was interesting/creepy the way that Samaritan put its dystopian fascistic words in the mouth of a kid...

 

Comments have been made about Martine being an semi-cyborg.  Although she seemed sort of independent this episode, I wonder if she is actually controlled by Samaritan.  Just a thought.

Edited by Dowel Jones
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There's still that little matter of that virus that Harold hopefully passed on to Samaritan. I keep hoping that The Machine is luring Samaritan into a false feeling of security. Perhaps the Machine was lying when it says that it knows that it can't win. I'm hoping that the Machine is actually playing Samaritan.

 

I think this is true, I think The Machine was hiding an ace, behaving like it (or she) has been backed into a corner. What makes me doubt this theory is Harold's speech and behaviour throughout. I thought he had The Conversation with his Machine (offscreen, ugh) and they had come into an understanding. But Finch seemed so powerless as the Machine seemed. This must be an audience set up from the writers, right? I need some hope in here.

Edited by Boundary
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It's as I've always known: little kids, like clowns and ventriloquists' dummies, are inherently creepy.

 

Perhaps hubris will be Samaritan's downfall.

 

LOVED the Get Smart vending machine. Now if John gets a shoe phone and the others start calling Harry "Chief"...

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Most disturbing was that Samaritan's admission that her hardware had probably been compromised wasn't accompanied by any sense of anxiety or concern.  An AI's perception of reality is only as good as the sensory data it receives from it's hardware.  To discover that this sensory input was being massaged prior to assimilation should, I believe, be of real concern.

 

"Bomb number twenty, return to the bomb bay..."

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