Unsolved Mysteries - General Discussion

[Linderhill]

I just saw this this evening:

https://news.yahoo.com/autopsy-report-reveals-2004-death-231546360.html

from the second cycle of episodes.  I hope they are able to actually charge and convict someone for this case.

[BetterButter]

 

[LadyChatts]

25 years long overdue.  This case was one blown opportunity after another in the beginning; it never should have taken this long to solve.  I’m sure Paul Flores and his family thought he got away with it.  

[Dr.OO7]

4 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

25 years long overdue.  This case was one blown opportunity after another in the beginning; it never should have taken this long to solve.  I’m sure Paul Flores and his family thought he got away with it.  

It's about fucking time. I knew it was him the first time I saw the segment and he was found to have lied about her not being in his room.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/paul-flores-taken-custody-connection-160505799.html

Edited April 14, 2021 by Dr.OO7

[Jaded]

I hadn't realized it had been that long since she disappeared. It made me feel so old when I read it. It's sad she wasn't able to grow old too. I hope her family and friends finally get real answers eventually.

[LadyChatts]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/denver.cbslocal.com/2021/04/09/cold-case-arrest-michael-jefferson-charged-murdering-roger-dean-1985/amp/
 

Here’s another old UM case that recently got a break this week.  The case of Colorado man Roger Dean, who was shot several times and killed while fighting with an intruder.  There was speculation in this case that Roger may have staged the break in at his home and was going to go willing with the intruder to get money out of his personal bank account, and then keep it for himself for whatever reason.  After his murder, his wife began being extorted with threats against her and her grown daughter, allegedly by the killer.  I’m posting this UM wiki for this case down below for those who don’t remember.

https://unsolvedmysteries.fandom.com/wiki/Roger_Dean

Edited April 14, 2021 by LadyChatts

[LexieLily]

Is the original UM still in reruns? I don't have Netflix so I couldn't watch the reboot even if I wanted to.

[Jaded]

1 hour ago, LexieLily said:

Is the original UM still in reruns? I don't have Netflix so I couldn't watch the reboot even if I wanted to.

Here's the link to the official UM site that gives all the to where the original series can be viewed.

[Aliferously]

Finally got around to season 2

Jack Wheeler

Yeah, I'm not buying the professional hit theory either. More like he had a bad episode which got worse as that night wore on. I think he forgot or lost his briefcase somewhere and it triggered a psychotic episode. It would explain why he went to the pharmacy.

Where did the hoodie come from? 

I also think he climbed into a dumpster for warmth or shelter (no matter how upstanding he was, mental illness doesn't care) and was tossed about in the compactor and dumped at the landfill without anyone noticing.

Dead Woman in Oslo

I honestly thought this case happened in the 1960's (I think there might have been a similar murder back then, though) not in 1995.

Someone must have paid someone a lot of money to keep the case under the radar. Checking into the hotel without ID, the mystery man, no camera footage ... 

I promise that not all Belgian mayors are not like the one depicted. He just seemed so excited to be on tv. Perhaps she passed through there once, or visited at some point. I think I read an article about the people who own the phone number on the check in card. They hold a similar theory, but they're equally baffled about it.

It's a shame that the city didn't at least pay for a modest headstone. Something to mark where she is should someone come looking. 

 

[methodwriter85]

On 5/9/2021 at 3:24 PM, Aliferously said:

I honestly thought this case happened in the 1960's (I think there might have been a similar murder back then, though) not in 1995.

You're probably thinking of the Isdal Woman, a woman who was found headfirst in a campfire at a forest in Norway in 1970. Investigators realized that she had checked into several hotels over the previous year under several different names, fueling speculation she was a spy. 

[Dr.OO7]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-man-1982-mountain-rescue-060050650.html

What an eerie coincidence. If only that cop had been suspicious enough of the bruise on his face to link it with the murders that happened that night.

[andromeda331]

Rey Rivera is a pretty good mystery. I don't think he committed suicide mostly because he could have done that by jumping off the hotel and they weren't able to explain how he ended up where he was. But his glasses and cellphone were found undamaged. Which makes no sense if he was murdered. Were they just left? But murder still makes more sense. Especially with his friend/boss refusing to talk or allow any of his employees talk and was once investigated by the SEC. The idea of the hole already being sounds possible. It makes more sense that he was murdered and dropped through the hole into a room never used then he some how was dropped or fell and crashed through the roof feet first. I hope they find out what happened.

In Patrice's case its really hard not to be suspicious of her husband. He immediately locks out her son and won't let him get any of his stuff? Then wanted to hold his wife's skull and sleeps with her ashes. I'd be more surprised if he didn't kill her.

House of Terror-Yeah the husband is still alive. If he was planning to commit suicide he would have done so at the house or the end of his weird road trip. It was all too well planned out. 

No Ride Home-Wow, that town pretty much had racist all over it, didn't it? They claimed to look for Alonzo but who knows. They wouldn't let the family come down to help search for him for a month? Then the family finds him and they decided it wasn't murdered? So Alonzo was so drunk he somehow ditched his shoes and hat and walked all the way down to the creek and fell in while his body somehow manage to stay hidden for a month until his family came to search for him? Yeah, that makes sense. I agree his body was hidden until that point. Nothing else makes sense. The reason why his friends left him at the party makes no sense. One friend gets lost when going to get cigarettes and just doesn't come back? He calls someone to tell him to tell Adam to give him a ride. Alonzo was having a great time. But then another friend said there had been argument or something. 

The UFO story was really interesting. So many different people with stories and after a long distance. I love UFO and other mysteries like that. I don't know if I believe them as much as I want to believe them.

The last case wasn't really a mystery. Everyone knows what happened. Sandy and her boyfriend killed Lena the same way they killed Gary. They just can't prove it. It was weird the one sister who said their mom was a great mom. Nothing that we heard about her soundned like a great mom. Going from man to man, married men, husband's brother, and using Lena to "enforce" the rest of the girls? 

Season Two
Jack Wheeler-I really think he just had mental break most likely from his biopolar. Every video he looked more and more a mess and paraniod. He probably left his briefcase somewhere in the middle of it. Maybe in a fight or maybe just crawled into the trash can? I can really see either one happening. 

Death in Oslo-Suicide seems unlikely given the placement of the gun. There was a small window when the killer could have left. The intelligent agent makes a lot of sense given how far she went to hide her identity and brought very with her. Why no pants or anything? Also, why did she have so many bullets with her? 

Death Row Fugitive-This was infuriating. So they let a man with a life sentence and murdered a child go Christmas Shopping? What the hell is wrong with people? He wasn't some petty criminal or something. What did they think would happen? How the hell did he get approved for that? And thewarrent for his arrest just disappeared from the system? His father's an asshole too. The whole he hope he changed? Your son murderd a child. It doesn't get worse then that. His family is definitely hiding him. 

Tsunami Spirits-I really loved learning about Japanese culture and how spiritual they are. The way they think of death. It was all really fascinating. I loved the monk. I do have mixed thoughts on ghosts. Some stories really did feel like PTSD or how they dealt with what happened. Some of the stories were just so heartbreaking. The man who gave the number of how many co-workers died and the woman who lost one child and trying to raise her other. The child wanting to apologize for letting go of her brother's hand. I loved the taxi cabs giving rides to ghosts and paying the fares. 

Lady in the Lake-Another suicide that makes no sense. So she walked down and slid down and walked into the lake. But they weren't able to find the body? It ended up being found further away? Why was the car moved and brought back? What about the alarm that went off? So how did her body get there if it was suicide? I think the brother knows what happened. He was too suspicious. 

Stolen Kids-Those poor mothers. I lean more towards the kids being stolen to because someone wanted to be a mother or adoption or something. Having to search that whole area and all of those apartments? There's no way to do that quickly. The two kids seem fishy why were they so determined to play with him? But I can't imagine them keeping quiet so long or even after being interviewed by police. The pictures of the other missing children was heartbreaking. I hope their found.

The different setup of the show took awhile to get used to but I ended up liking it. No one can replace Robert Stack. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Rey Rivera is a pretty good mystery. I don't think he committed suicide mostly because he could have done that by jumping off the hotel and they weren't able to explain how he ended up where he was. But his glasses and cellphone were found undamaged. Which makes no sense if he was murdered. Were they just left? But murder still makes more sense. Especially with his friend/boss refusing to talk or allow any of his employees talk and was once investigated by the SEC. The idea of the hole already being sounds possible. It makes more sense that he was murdered and dropped through the hole into a room never used then he some how was dropped or fell and crashed through the roof feet first. I hope they find out what happened.

In Patrice's case its really hard not to be suspicious of her husband. He immediately locks out her son and won't let him get any of his stuff? Then wanted to hold his wife's skull and sleeps with her ashes. I'd be more surprised if he didn't kill her.

House of Terror-Yeah the husband is still alive. If he was planning to commit suicide he would have done so at the house or the end of his weird road trip. It was all too well planned out. 

No Ride Home-Wow, that town pretty much had racist all over it, didn't it? They claimed to look for Alonzo but who knows. They wouldn't let the family come down to help search for him for a month? Then the family finds him and they decided it wasn't murdered? So Alonzo was so drunk he somehow ditched his shoes and hat and walked all the way down to the creek and fell in while his body somehow manage to stay hidden for a month until his family came to search for him? Yeah, that makes sense. I agree his body was hidden until that point. Nothing else makes sense. The reason why his friends left him at the party makes no sense. One friend gets lost when going to get cigarettes and just doesn't come back? He calls someone to tell him to tell Adam to give him a ride. Alonzo was having a great time. But then another friend said there had been argument or something. 

The UFO story was really interesting. So many different people with stories and after a long distance. I love UFO and other mysteries like that. I don't know if I believe them as much as I want to believe them.

The last case wasn't really a mystery. Everyone knows what happened. Sandy and her boyfriend killed Lena the same way they killed Gary. They just can't prove it. It was weird the one sister who said their mom was a great mom. Nothing that we heard about her soundned like a great mom. Going from man to man, married men, husband's brother, and using Lena to "enforce" the rest of the girls? 

Season Two
Jack Wheeler-I really think he just had mental break most likely from his biopolar. Every video he looked more and more a mess and paraniod. He probably left his briefcase somewhere in the middle of it. Maybe in a fight or maybe just crawled into the trash can? I can really see either one happening. 

Death in Oslo-Suicide seems unlikely given the placement of the gun. There was a small window when the killer could have left. The intelligent agent makes a lot of sense given how far she went to hide her identity and brought very with her. Why no pants or anything? Also, why did she have so many bullets with her? 

Death Row Fugitive-This was infuriating. So they let a man with a life sentence and murdered a child go Christmas Shopping? What the hell is wrong with people? He wasn't some petty criminal or something. What did they think would happen? How the hell did he get approved for that? And the warrent for his arrest just disappeared from the system? His father's an asshole too. The whole he hope he changed? Your son murderd a child. It doesn't get worse then that. His family is definitely hiding him. 

Tsunami Spirits-I really loved learning about Japanese culture and how spiritual they are. The way they think of death. It was all really fascinating. I loved the monk. I do have mixed thoughts on ghosts. Some stories really did feel like PTSD or how they dealt with what happened. Some of the stories were just so heartbreaking. The man who gave the number of how many co-workers died and the woman who lost one child and trying to raise her other. The child wanting to apologize for letting go of her brother's hand. I loved the taxi cabs giving rides to ghosts and paying the fares. 

Lady in the Lake-Another suicide that makes no sense. So she walked down and slid down and walked into the lake. But they weren't able to find the body? It ended up being found further away? Why was the car moved and brought back? What about the alarm that went off? So how did her body get there if it was suicide? I think the brother knows what happened. He was too suspicious. 

Stolen Kids-Those poor mothers. I lean more towards the kids being stolen to because someone wanted to be a mother or adoption or something. Having to search that whole area and all of those apartments? There's no way to do that quickly. The two kids seem fishy why were they so determined to play with him? But I can't imagine them keeping quiet so long or even after being interviewed by police. The pictures of the other missing children was heartbreaking. I hope their found.

The different setup of the show took awhile to get used to but I ended up liking it. No one can replace Robert Stack. 

 

[LadyChatts]

As a watcher and listener of true crime podcasts and TV shows, including binge watching the Stack era of Unsolved Mysteries many times, are there any cases people wish the new reboot would cover?  Or maybe re-cover, since new evidence may have been brought to light since the case originally aired on Unsolved Mysteries?  I've discovered a lot of new cases thanks to this era of the true crime and, of course, the internet.  And especially with the advancements with these DNA websites that they've made in identifying Jane and John Does, and finding killers and rapists through these sites.  I think older cases might especially benefit from a fresh look.  Some of the ones I'd love to see covered/re-visited:

Two cases that were previously featured on UM: The Boys on the Track (Don Henry and Kevin Ives-there's been a lot that's come out about this case in recent years, and I'd love to see a fresh, updated take), and Adam Emery (he was the guy who killed a young man in a road rage incident, and was convicted of the murder, then he and his wife disappeared off the Newport Bridge in RI in an apparent double suicide-yet only his wife's remains were ever found.  I've been surprised that investigators are acting as though Adam is alive somewhere out there.  So if he did fake his own death and is living the high life out there, he's an even bigger sleaze than I already thought, so I'd love if an updated UM broadcast could lead to him getting captured.)

These other ones I don't recall ever being featured on the show: The Murder/Accidental Death (depending what side your on) of Kendrick Johnson; the murder of Evelyn Hernandez/unknown whereabouts of her 5 year old son and unborn baby; the missing "Springfield Three" (Sherrill Levitt, Suzie Streeter, and Stacey McCall), and another missing trio "Fort Worth Trio" (Rachel Trlica, Lisa Wilson, Julie Moseley); the disappearance of Asha Degree; the Villisca Axe Murder house, which could double as both a true crime story and a supernatural one.

And I'd love to see a profile on serial killer Belle Gunness, because she's another one who may have died or cleverly faked her own death 

Edited May 29, 2021 by LadyChatts

[Aliferously]

On 5/28/2021 at 9:42 PM, andromeda331 said:

Death Row Fugitive-This was infuriating. So they let a man with a life sentence and murdered a child go Christmas Shopping? What the hell is wrong with people? He wasn't some petty criminal or something. What did they think would happen? How the hell did he get approved for that? And thewarrent for his arrest just disappeared from the system? His father's an asshole too. The whole he hope he changed? Your son murderd a child. It doesn't get worse then that. His family is definitely hiding him. 

Tsunami Spirits-I really loved learning about Japanese culture and how spiritual they are. The way they think of death. It was all really fascinating. I loved the monk. I do have mixed thoughts on ghosts. Some stories really did feel like PTSD or how they dealt with what happened. Some of the stories were just so heartbreaking. The man who gave the number of how many co-workers died and the woman who lost one child and trying to raise her other. The child wanting to apologize for letting go of her brother's hand. I loved the taxi cabs giving rides to ghosts and paying the fares. 

Now that I did watch these two episodes and didn't want to edit my previous one:.

Death Row Fugitive

He must have been one charismatic son of a bitch to pull that off.

Or he bought off the guards. 

In the era before the Internet, I am sure lots of important warrants never came to pass. It's why we have such a wealth of unsolved mystery reality shows. Because people delayed reporting a sister missing or someone assigned typing up an arrest warrant decided to go get coffee instead.

Japanese Ghosts.

I liked the Japanese spirituality angle too. 

Those reconstructions though. I understand that they think it's normal, but driving into your garage to find a bunch of strangers standing there would creep me out beyond measure. 

[archer1267]

On 7/8/2020 at 8:38 AM, sioux21 said:

The thing that I just couldn't understand was how Rob was saying he was sleeping with the ashes, but then opened the box saying it was the first time he ever saw the ashes. Did he mean that he slept with the box, but never opened it to look? 

Late to the party (I finally started watching the series!) but thought I'd share a possibility, since that struck me as odd too. When my father died, my mother had some cremains set aside for family members. We each got a little knick-knack with some ashes in it, while the rest of the cremains were kept in a box in the closet. I thought maybe Rob had asked for cremains to also be put aside separately and who knows, maybe he put them inside a doll or a pillow. Normally I believe in "whatever gets you through the day," and grief does crazy things to people, but the husband was in a different league of crazy.

[BetterButter]

[CrystalBlue]

Unfortunately, Netflix has lost my subscription and viewership because it's just not worth it to me anymore.  I finished the series' Ozark and Peaky Blinders final seasons and that's it for me.

[Annber03]

I had no idea this was coming back until tonight! I know what I'll be watching this weekend, then. 

[TooMuchRealityTV]

Episode 1:

Sadly, I do think Tiffany did commit suicide. I don't think this is an unsolved mystery at all. She was upset due to a number of circumstances, a breakup, being caught stealing and she'd had problems with her mother. CPS had been called to the home. Her Mother admits to punching her once and leaving a bruise. (Not acknowledged on the episode, but reporters who wrote the story linked below viewed her medical records and spoke to her parents about it.) I acknowledge the shoe thing was weird, but she was probably not in a good state of mind after she left the house. She was about to kill herself, she wasn't thinking logically. Also, I wasn't convinced not finding the shorts meant something. It sounds like the family combed the tracks collecting remains. So whatever was left was spread out. Also maybe the shorts were mostly destroyed and there wasn't much, if anything, to find. Finding a scrap of shorts in the woods might actually not be that easy to do.

From the article below: "Yet, the two had been bickering more and more frequently, and child protection officials in 2014 paid three separate visits to the Valiante home after one of Tiffany’s teachers noticed bruising on her arm, according to a summary of medical records reviewed by The Daily Beast. Dianne admitted to having caused the bruise by punching Tiffany after an argument. A caseworker recommended the pair seek counseling, which Dianne and Tiffany agreed to do."

It seems like they carefully left out Tiffany's problems at home. The article mentions her friends told investigators she self harmed (although the parents don't believe it).

I think this episode was poorly done. It never struck me as a mystery. Also, leaving the whole CPS thing out just feels misleading.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tiffany-valiante-parents-steve-and-dianne-from-mays-landing-say-daughter-was-killed-did-not-die-by-suicide

Episode 3:

This one seems like it could actually be solved. It hasn't happened too long ago so the suspect probably hasn't aged from the photos they showed of her. Perhaps showing her face will help with the search. She sounds awful so the sooner they find her the better.

Edited October 19, 2022 by TooMuchRealityTV

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, TooMuchRealityTV said:

I think this episode poorly done. It never struck me as a mystery. Also, leaving the whole CPS thing just feels misleading.

I would agree that they should have included more about the troubles Tiffany was having prior to her death.  Apparently they also left out that the convenience store manager's story to the police had multiple holes in it, and at best, what he heard was third hand gossip. 

I also felt like no real alternative scenario was offered for Tiffany's death except the idea that in the moment she was away from her parents she happened to get into a random car with people who then proceeded to kill her for unknown reasons.  I feel awful for the parents, but there doesn't seem to be much there to argue that a murder took place. 

[stonehaven]

I do think something happened to Tiffany but not sure what. As there were issues with both the parent's account and the train operators. First, the parents said she was afraid of the dark ,so why did she go off walking alone at night? Also, she either stood in the middle of the tracks or she dove in front of the train? Either way, there was time to see how she really got on those tracks.

[Pi237]

Thank you TooMuchRealityTv for posting that info! I thought there had to be more to the story. They really glossed over the story of Tiffany calling her mom to come home from the party. The Mom was like “shrug Ok I’ll come home” Then, quick mentioning of the theft and it was dropped. 

Seemed strange that she’d drop her phone and walk all that way, when she was actually sober. Committing suicide in such a violent way is usually done when a person is drunk or high.  Very odd.  Felt awful for the family members gathering up her scattered remains. I can’t imagine. 

[bourbon]

I didn't find Tiffany's story very compelling. It's possible something nefarious happened to her, but I don't buy the "she had no reason to kill herself" line at all. She had just been caught committing a crime. She might have thought at worst she could be going to jail, at best she might be losing her scholarship. She was upset, not thinking clearly, and in a rash moment, she jumped in front of the train. The stuff with her clothes/shoes was admittedly weird, but the most likely scenario to me is that she killed herself. 

[Cristofle]

I lean pretty heavily towards Tiffany's death being a suicide. We're talking about an LGBT teen who had just broken up with her girlfriend, and a girl who was having more troubles at home than the episode let on, and seemingly a high-achieving teenage athlete, which can be a very stressful situation for some teens. She was behaving in strange ways with money, to the point of doing something illegal, which shows she probably wasn't in the best state of mind. Suicides can be relatively spontaneous and impulsive, especially with teenagers. If she was in a suicidal state of mind, I'm not sure the bit about the shoes was all that compelling. You can't judge an irrational act with rational standards. I don't know that I'm 100%, just because it also seems somewhat feasible that the friend she stole the credit card from came back to deliver a beatdown that got out of control (or anyone else who was bullying her - LGBT teens are at high risk for bullying), but I don't think that's the most likely scenario. I think suicide is. 

Episode 3 is just...wow. I like it better as an episode in the sense that this is an obvious murder, a clear-cut suspect, not THAT long ago, and it seems like it's potentially solvable, especially with that tattoo on her arm. But the story is insane. I'm sorry, she slashed ALL FOUR OF HIS TIRES because he went to see a movie with his COUSIN?! For future reference, absolutely the time to not just break up with the person immediately, but get the cops involved and make sure you're never alone with them again. Change the locks, do whatever you need to do. And then there's the fact that she cut him up with a KITCHEN KNIFE after killing him. His poor son had it right - he's lucky he never tried to go in that bedroom or that bathroom, or she may have shot him too. It was also heartbreaking that his mother was so devastated by his death, she decided not to treat her cancer and has since died. This woman is clearly highly dangerous to anyone around her, and I really hope more exposure leads to a more current sighting. It's entirely possible she is still in NYC or somewhere around that area, just...blending in with all the people. 

[Cementhead]

21 hours ago, Pi237 said:

Thank you TooMuchRealityTv for posting that info! I thought there had to be more to the story. They really glossed over the story of Tiffany calling her mom to come home from the party. The Mom was like “shrug Ok I’ll come home” Then, quick mentioning of the theft and it was dropped. 

I had absolutely no idea this show was back.  Anyways, I just finished watching this one 5 minutes ago and this drove me crazy!  It was mentioned so cavalierly by Mom, as if it was just some innocuous little detail that was an inconvenience to even have to bring up.  I was certain it would come back up but it was just ignored.  Sure, there were certainly some compelling ideas and theories that caused me to pause for a moment, but I just couldn't get past the way they conveniently hand waved away the angry confrontation over her theft because it had literally just occurred minutes before she left to leave down the driveway which points to it being the impetus for her suicide to me.  Teens do sadly make these impulsive deadly decisions sometimes to avoid facing consequences.  (I went to high school with a boy who killed himself after having a party one Friday night because he was afraid to face his parents when they came home the next day.)

Then I come here and read the information that TooMuchRealityTv shared above.  Wow!  Now I feel as though I have been manipulated and that pisses me off because sadly, there are so many families with stories to tell like this that when others spend their time and money to get a story told, I want it to be the true, unfiltered version, no matter how ugly it may be because otherwise it just seems like those resources were squandered. 

I also thought it was strange when the footnote at the end told us that Tiffany's friends declined to be on the show even though they were invited to appear.  That really never happens.  There's always at least that one friend who wouldn't say no to being on a show.  Now that I read what TooMuchRealityTv shared above, I can surmise the reasons why.  Nobody wanted to open the proverbial can of worms.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Cementhead

[Enero]

On 10/18/2022 at 9:28 PM, TooMuchRealityTV said:

I think this episode was poorly done. It never struck me as a mystery. Also, leaving the whole CPS thing out just feels misleading.

Agreed. The episode was very one sided. We only heard the family’s POV which had quite a bit of whitewashing and hand waving. It would’ve been a compelling episode had they explored all possible scenarios. 

On 10/19/2022 at 6:47 AM, stonehaven said:

I do think something happened to Tiffany but not sure what. As there were issues with both the parent's account and the train operators. First, the parents said she was afraid of the dark ,so why did she go off walking alone at night? Also, she either stood in the middle of the tracks or she dove in front of the train? Either way, there was time to see how she really got on those tracks.

I’m leaning towards suicide or just a foolish accident on her part, which sadly cost her life. The murder theory makes no sense. Who would be the killer? What would be the motive? As someone said upthread, it’s possible the friend whom she stole from came back to teach her a lesson but I think that’s a bit far fetched. Moreover she was a big girl at 6’2. It would’ve taken at least 3 people, I think, to remove her body from a vehicle (which would be even heavier if she was incapacitated or dead) and put her on the tracks.

Her family argued that her phone was like an extension of her and that she ate, slept and bathed with it. Therefore she’d never leave it behind. But I think she likely threw it into the bushes because she didn’t want to hear from her parents and didn’t want them to find her because then she’d have to face their wrath over her thievery. Something she’d got in trouble for before. Upset, she either walked to the train tracks and impulsively threw herself in front of the train. Or was playing Russian Roulette, was walking on the tracks and waited too long to get out of the way. 

It’s likely her shirt and shorts were torn from her body and scattered and/or disintegrated  during impact. She was hit at 80 mph and dragged several feet after impact. I honestly doubt the clothes they did find on her body were in tact. It was likely remnants of what was attached to her remains. 

The only thing I did question was her shoes and headband being so far from the scene of impact. And them arguing that her feet had no evidence of walking on shards of rock and gravel. That said they only showed a picture of one of her feet to prove their point. It wasn’t cut up on bottom but it wasn’t free from dirt and grime either. So this could  be another case of the parents grasping to prove anything but suicide. Also someone made a point elsewhere that she could’ve left the shoes and headband behind because she’d used the stolen credit card to purchase those items. Her mom did say she’d recently purchased the shoes.  

I did find it interesting that by the end of the episode even the attorney the family had hired to help them started to sort of back off the murder theory and say “something” happened. Saying maybe it was an “accident” etc.

20 hours ago, Cristofle said:

Episode 3 is just...wow. I like it better as an episode in the sense that this is an obvious murder, a clear-cut suspect, not THAT long ago, and it seems like it's potentially solvable, especially with that tattoo on her arm. But the story is insane. I'm sorry, she slashed ALL FOUR OF HIS TIRES because he went to see a movie with his COUSIN?! For future reference, absolutely the time to not just break up with the person immediately, but get the cops involved and make sure you're never alone with them again. Change the locks, do whatever you need to do. And then there's the fact that she cut him up with a KITCHEN KNIFE after killing him. His poor son had it right - he's lucky he never tried to go in that bedroom or that bathroom, or she may have shot him too. It was also heartbreaking that his mother was so devastated by his death, she decided not to treat her cancer and has since died. This woman is clearly highly dangerous to anyone around her, and I really hope more exposure leads to a more current sighting. It's entirely possible she is still in NYC or somewhere around that area, just...blending in with all the people. 

I was horrified by the fact that she cut him up with a kitchen knife. That took a lot of time and effort. And was undoubtedly a very bloody scene. Even with cleaning up all the blood, if the police did a luminal test in that apartment specifically the bathroom I’m sure it lit up like a Christmas tree. 

With Tamera’s skill in nursing she could have been working anywhere these past couple of years. I wonder if she some how managed to slip into Canada. She has experience as a travel agent and may know of ways to cross the border undetected. I do think this episode will give this case the attention needed to catch her. I have no doubt that she’ll be caught very soon unless she’s dead herself. 

I see no one has mentioned the 2nd episode about the UFOs in Michigan. I guess everyone found that episode just as boring as I did. Lol. I didn’t even finish it. Nothing compelling about it. IMO. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Enero

[bettername2come]

Reading the things above complicates the Tiffany case more, but I wouldn't say I'm convinced it was suicide. The theft and stressful situations beforehand seem as much like potential suicide impetuses as they do lead up to murder. And the CPS report makes me not rule out the mom either. 

[Enero]

6 hours ago, Cementhead said:

I also thought it was strange when the footnote at the end told us that Tiffany's friends declined to be on the show even though they were invited to appear.  That really never happens.  There's always at least that one friend who wouldn't say no to being on a show. 

Didn’t want to turn my previous post into a dicertatcion so posting again. 😂 Also it was telling that her sisters didn’t participate in the documentary. Makes me think they’ve all accepted that it was suicide while the parents are still in denial.  

[Peanut6711]

“It is highly unlikely that this very accomplished 18-year-old female athlete walked barefoot, alone in the woods, without her cellphone, over stones and brush, in the dark along 1.5 miles of isolated railroad tracks on a hot summer night for a total of nearly four hours in order to commit suicide,” -Louise Houseman, a former senior investigator with the Atlantic County Medical Examiner’s Office

I have to agree with the medical examiner on the Tiffany story.  Suicide seems a little too convenient.  I mean, it's a neat little way for the transit authority to wrap up their case, save a ton of paperwork, further investigation, and possibly charges for the drivers, but it doesn't add up.  I might believe that it was accidental if an upset Tiffany had ran off following the arguments with her friends and parents and immediately been hit by the train, but hours later with her time in between unaccounted for makes it suspicious.  And the shoes and headband intact and unbloody miles from the impact site doesn't add up.  Same with her abandoned phone.  If she didn't want to take calls or be tracked, she could have just turned it off. Does not seem likely at all that a teen girl attached to her phone would just drop it in the grass and walk off. 

Most likely the answer to what happened to Tiffany might have been uncovered if police had actually investigated the crime and interviewed her friends and the people at the party for statements (and inconsistent statements) regarding the events leading up to her death.  Some of those kids know what happened.  A few are probably responsible.  The "drama" that evening likely plays a role in her death, but I don't think it led to suicide.  It's far more likely some teens without the best intentions got out of hand.  Now in their mid-twenties, they are hoping everyone stays quiet. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Peanut6711

[non sequitur]

It's frustrating that so many details about Tiffany's life were left out. 

I feel horrible for the Uncle who had to pick up her remains.  The police should have done a lot more, like a real investigation.

Edited October 22, 2022 by non sequitur

[Cheezwiz]

I just watched episode 1, and I thought Tiffany's story was very sad. After finding out about her unhappy relationship with her Mom, it's even sadder. I wish the show had not glossed over and white-washed the details of Tiffany's home-life. I does sound like her parents are in deep denial, but I'm also not 100% convinced that something bad didn't happen to her. It was frustrating to hear mention of her credit card theft and then have it dropped entirely. Regarding the theft, I can't help wondering if some of her peers ganged up on her to teach her a lesson and it maybe got out of hand. The findings of the female transit investigator sort of have me on the fence. Was Tiffany standing or laying down on the tracks at the time of impact? None of the statements were clear. It sounds like everyone involved from the parents to the engineers was not providing accurate info, so I doubt it will ever be resolved.

[Annber03]

On 10/20/2022 at 10:41 PM, Peanut6711 said:

I have to agree with the medical examiner on the Tiffany story.  Suicide seems a little too convenient.  I mean, it's a neat little way for the transit authority to wrap up their case, save a ton of paperwork, further investigation, and possibly charges for the drivers, but it doesn't add up.  I might believe that it was accidental if an upset Tiffany had ran off following the arguments with her friends and parents and immediately been hit by the train, but hours later with her time in between unaccounted for makes it suspicious. 

Yeeeeeeeah, the drivers changing their stories definitely came off as, "Oh, shit, we could face charges for this if we say we saw her and didn't stop in time, so we'd better say otherwise." And even if they are telling the truth, I mean....it was dark and late at night, and that's a very wooded area. That's going to mess with your memories and vision regarding what you did or didn't see, too. It's not surprising that their stories might change for that reason alone, too. 

But yes, while I agree there's plenty here to indicate a possibility of suicide (that article was very eye-opening regarding her past, so yeah, echoing the thanks for sharing that, @TooMuchRealityTV) , the amount of time in between her fleeing her parents' home and her death leaves a lot of questions as well. What was she doing during that time? Why discard everything so haphazardly as she did. Like the article states, if she wants to kill herself, she didn't need to go all that way to do that. Unless the theory is that she was wandering around the woods for a time, mulling over her options, and then she hears the sound of a train and has her mind made up on what to do. Which I could perhaps see as an explanation for that gap of time, and as others have noted, people who want to commit suicide aren't exactly going to be very logical in a lot of their behavior leading up to it. But even so...

And if it was an accident, I mean, again, surely she'd know that's where the train tracks are. Or at the very least, she would've heard the sound of the train whistle. Why go there and put yourself in that kind of potential danger like that? 

I agree with the comment about how her apparent fear of the dark also makes this whole thing even weirder. Those shots of the railroad tracks in the dark creeped me out just looking at them. I can't imagine someone with a fear of the dark being fine with wandering around there alone that late at night like that. I mean, forget about the dark itself, or the risk of being hit by a train (or a car, if it were driving along the road), I'd be terrified of some creepy person lurking in the woods. 

All of that being said, I do think her parents are in some strong denial at even considering the idea that she would've killed herself. I get that parents don't want to imagine their child doing such a thing, of course, but my god, how many times have we heard the, "Oh, they'd never commit suicide, they had plans, they were happy, they were loved", etc., only to find out that, no, yeah, the person really did kill themselves, and the happy front they were putting on was just that, a front. I agree it would've been good to learn more about why people were so certain she would've committed suicide, and it would've been helpful if the stuff in that article about her struggles had been discussed in the episode. I could perhaps see her parents being afraid of speaking ill of their daughter, but there are sympathetic ways to discuss those elements of her life that she was struggling with.

And if they're so certain this is a murder, I mean...that stuff with the card and the theft accusations would've been good to delve into further if only so that we could have more of a basis/understanding for trying to figure out who might've had reason to want her dead. It also could've opened up more potential opportunities for people to share whatever information they may have about that whole scenario. Perhaps her parents feel they're protecting her memory by glossing over this stuff, but they're also hurting their own chances of finding out what happened to her once and for all. 

I do agree that the investigation was rather sloppily done. Especially since there was still some stuff left at the scene the next day. Indeed, even if you're sure from the outset something is a suicide, you should still go through every single possibility imaginable, just in case. Hopefully somebody will come forward with more information that can properly explain what happened that night, but yeah, just a weird, unsettling story the whole way around. That last image of her walking and looking back is so haunting. 

On 10/19/2022 at 5:18 PM, Pi237 said:

Felt awful for the family members gathering up her scattered remains. I can’t imagine. 

God, seriously. Between that and the story about David's murder, lots of really disturbing images and descriptions that will haunt me for a while.  And on that note...

On 10/20/2022 at 9:44 AM, Cristofle said:

And then there's the fact that she cut him up with a KITCHEN KNIFE after killing him. His poor son had it right - he's lucky he never tried to go in that bedroom or that bathroom, or she may have shot him too. 

That fucking floored me ,that bit with the kitchen knife. 'Cause I was sitting here thinking, "Okay, so she kills him in the apartment, but how'd she chop up his body without anyone else hearing the sound of, like, a saw or something?" Well, that answers that question, then :/. 

And then there was the fact that they kept. finding. body. parts, after discovering the initial set of them.  Days later. Like, this woman really just scattered them any which way she could. The whole bit about finding the bags with the head...Jesus Christ. The way the coroner described how they were found made it all the more horrifying. She was just so matter of fact about it. Obviously in that job you learn how to talk abut such horrific things that way, of course, 'cause you need to, for professional reasons (and likely personal ones, too). But still. Damn. I agree that Tamera's decision to cut up his body was largely for practical reasons, but...I mean, she also has experience with using a knife to slash his tires. She's clearly got a very sadistic streak lurking in her. 

My heart absolutely broke for David's family. I agree that it was smart for his son to not open that door, though I don't blame him one bit for any guilt or "what if"s he has over not opening it. I was moved by his story of playing football shortly after his dad's death, and winning the game besides, and then the end, when he talked about how he wondered if his dad was proud of him...that made me cry. I just wanted to hug him. 

And then David's dad, talking about trying to be there for his wife, and how she was so broken by her son's death that she died not long after, too. This poor family. They've suffered so much. 

The story about Tamera giving that creepy stare at the game shortly before David's murder gave me a shiver, too. I really hope they're able to find Tamera, both, obviously, because the family needs and deserves to see justice done, and also because she needs to be stopped before she potentially destroys another man's/family's life. I shudder to think of what else she could be capable of doing. 

On 10/20/2022 at 7:35 PM, Enero said:

I see no one has mentioned the 2nd episode about the UFOs in Michigan. I guess everyone found that episode just as boring as I did. Lol. I didn’t even finish it. Nothing compelling about it. IMO. 

 I watched it. I thought it was rather interesting, especially considering there were actual radar returns that seemed to confirm all the reports everyone was getting and calling in. I liked the bit with the conversation between the guy at the weather station and the guy checking to confirm about all these 911 calls he'd been receiving. They both seemed skeptical at first and then they're like, "...okay, this is bizarre."

Clearly something weird must've happened that night, for so many unrelated reports to come in like that. I wouldn't be so quick to rule out military aircraft of some sort - I guarantee there's lots of technology the military has or is working on that we don't know about that may be very, very advanced, and which could explain the strange phenomena in the sky that night. But whatever it was, I don't blame anyone for getting rather spooked. Though there were some that seemed rather proud to have experienced such a thing, too, which was interesting. It is weird, the stigma around the concept of a UFO - yes, we largely associate them with aliens, but seeing a UFO doesn't automatically mean you believe in aliens or that you think aliens are invading. It just means, as the abbreviation itself notes, you saw a strange object flying around that you couldn't identify. That in and of itself is not unusual or uncommon. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Annber03

[Enero]

7 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Regarding the theft, I can't help wondering if some of her peers ganged up on her to teach her a lesson and it maybe got out of hand. The findings of the female transit investigator sort of have me on the fence. Was Tiffany standing or laying down on the tracks at the time of impact? None of the statements were clear. It sounds like everyone involved from the parents to the engineers was not providing accurate info, so I doubt it will ever be resolved.

According to the Daily Beast article and other reports, the friend who accused Tiffany of theft showed up with her mother to report the theft to Tiffany’s parents, which is why Diane and her husband (Tiffany’s parents) left the party from across the street to return home. They got a call from the friend who urgently needed to talk to her, specifically the mother.  In addition to this, it was reported that the friend who accused Tiffany of stealing return to the residence to help look for Tiffany when it was learned she was missing. 

My point, if there was foul play involved I don’t think it was the friend who accused her of stealing. If Tiffany was kidnapped from the residence whomever would’ve had to be practically waiting at the end of the driveway for her to walk down there and get kidnapped as she disappeared as soon as the mom went into the house to get her father. I guess it’s possible that the friend who accused her of theft and her mom could’ve done something to her as they’d just left Tiffany’s house in a vehicle, but again, that seems like a long shot. 

Regarding the reports by the apprentice Engineer, I think there was a lot of factors in the inconsistency of the stories, mainly trauma. The accident happened so fast it’s probably difficult to say exactly what he saw. The only thing for sure is that she was on the tracks.

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Unless the theory is that she was wandering around the woods for a time, mulling over her options, and then she hears the sound of a train and has her mind made up on what to do. Which I could perhaps see as an explanation for that gap of time, and as others have noted, people who want to commit suicide aren't exactly going to be very logical in a lot of their behavior leading up to it. But even so...

And if it was an accident, I mean, again, surely she'd know that's where the train tracks are. Or at the very least, she would've heard the sound of the train whistle. Why go there and put yourself in that kind of potential danger like that? 
 

You’re looking at this through the eyes of an adult, calm and logic. :) Tiffany was a teenager who was likely highly emotional about all that was going wrong in her life. Her thought process was probably illogical that night. Regarding walking in the dark woods, I saw someone post elsewhere that they live in the area and that it’s not as rural as the episode described. They claimed the path it is believed Tiffany took to the railroad is well lit and that the tracks are right off the “main” road. So she was likely not walking in the dark all that time. 

Moreover, I know it’s been questioned why it took so long to get to the tracks. I know UM said it was 1.5 miles away, but articles I read on this said the tracks were 4 miles away. So if it was the latter, depending on how slow or quickly Tiffany was walking or if she stopped to mull over her plight etc. it could’ve take her at least an hour and a half,  to walk to the tracks. She takes off her shoes because they’re hurting her feet, as some have speculated, and the head band because it’s hot and uncomfortable and keeps walking until a decision is made that leads to her being hit by the train.  
 

Quote

Clearly something weird must've happened that night, for so many unrelated reports to come in like that. I wouldn't be so quick to rule out military aircraft of some sort - I guarantee there's lots of technology the military has or is working on that we don't know about that may be very, very advanced, and which could explain the strange phenomena in the sky that night. But whatever it was, I don't blame anyone for getting rather spooked. Though there were some that seemed rather proud to have experienced such a thing, too, which was interesting. It is weird, the stigma around the concept of a UFO - yes, we largely associate them with aliens, but seeing a UFO doesn't automatically mean you believe in aliens or that you think aliens are invading. It just means, as the abbreviation itself notes, you saw a strange object flying around that you couldn't identify. That in and of itself is not unusual or uncommon. 

This! I was just speaking with a guy I know who used to work for a defense contractor and he mentioned how the technology the military reveals they have now has been around for decades. They of course keep it classified as they do not want our enemies to know and only make it known when they’re moving on from that technology to something more advanced. So who knows what they’ve developed which we’re not aware. Though I do not believe us Earthlings are the only ones in the universe, I’m skeptical about aliens on Earth. Only because if they have the technology to come here they are way more advanced than us and may have caused us more trouble than what we cause ourselves by now. 

[RedInk]

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Yeeeeeeeah, the drivers changing their stories definitely came off as, "Oh, shit, we could face charges for this if we say we saw her and didn't stop in time, so we'd better say otherwise." And even if they are telling the truth, I mean....it was dark and late at night, and that's a very wooded area. That's going to mess with your memories and vision regarding what you did or didn't see, too. 

I think they were likely in shock, but probably not worried about inaction. My grandfather was a train engineer and had hit people. It’s devastating for them. It takes a full mile after pulling the emergency brake to stop, so they say if you can see someone on the tracks, it’s already too late. No one said she was lying on the tracks, so I would assume suicide or terrible accident, but not murder. Like others have said, this one wasn’t necessarily mysterious. Whatever was happening in her life warranted more consideration. 

[iMonrey]

I'm sort of on the fence about Tiffany, although I spent most of the episode leaning towards suicide. And now that I have more of her backstory I'm leaning that way even more. The shoes and headband being 1.75 miles away from the site of impact are still puzzling though. I can see her dropping her phone if she's in a suicidal state but not taking off her shoes. And while I'm no forensic expert I found the evidence that her limbs had literally been sliced off very compelling and suggestive that she had been laid across the tracks. (Although the story above seems to suggest her limbs were torn off rather than sliced, so I don't know which is correct.)

RE: Episode 2, anyone interested in this sort of thing should check out the 4-part UFO docuseries by JJ Abrams that aired on Showtime in 2021. It's excellent and covers every angle. One episode will have you convinced UFOs are real and another will have you convinced they are not.

[MerBearStare]

On 10/20/2022 at 8:38 PM, Enero said:

Also it was telling that her sisters didn’t participate in the documentary. Makes me think they’ve all accepted that it was suicide while the parents are still in denial.  

Yeah, if Tiffany had a tumultuous relationship with her parents, I could see them not accepting it was suicide because they probably feel a tremendous amount of guilt. I think her friend saying she thought it was suicide was the most compelling proof that it was suicide. At that age, your friends often know you much better than your parents and your parents can sometimes only see what they want to see.

[Pi237]

I love the UFO ones. I tend to believe them (until they get to abductions. Then, I honestly doubt them.) But you can’t deny the radar guy’s experience. That was wild. I feel bad for him that his reputation took a hit. All he did was report what he saw. 

[SoMuchTV]

Regarding the UFO episode - what seemed odd to me was that everything they showed appeared to be a recreation.  Not a single photo or video.  This was, what, 1994, right?  Everyone and their brother had a video camera at that point.  Whether what they saw was truly unidentified, or some had some kind of military explanation, it just seems strange that nobody captured anything on film.  (Or if any of what they showed was actual photos/video, they certainly didn't make that clear - it would have been a much more compelling story if they had.)

[Emily Thrace]

On 10/20/2022 at 8:06 PM, bettername2come said:

Reading the things above complicates the Tiffany case more, but I wouldn't say I'm convinced it was suicide. The theft and stressful situations beforehand seem as much like potential suicide impetuses as they do lead up to murder. And the CPS report makes me not rule out the mom either. 

I wonder if it was simply an accident. If she was charging around the woods upset she might simply fallen backwards on the tracks knocked herself out and was still lying there when the train came through. She could have lost the head band and shoes walking in those trees. Or it is possible they flew off when the train hit her. Its actually fairly common for people who get hit by trains to lose their clothes completely. Plus its sounds like the shoes were ballet flats which fall off in a stiff breeze anyway.

One thing about it being murder or an attack is her hands were intact and there were no defensive marks found. Nothing under her fingernails, no scratches or broken nails. Two autopsies and they found nothing.

[Cheezwiz]

I found the UFO episode only mildly interesting. I 100% believe everyone saw what they did, and the weather guy's radar evidence was pretty irrefutable. The only mystery is what they were all looking at - was it experimental military craft or alien visitors? Who knows, but it was weird whatever it was.

Episode 3 was just heartbreaking. My God, that poor family and what they went through. I can't believe that the police didn't find enough evidence to book that woman (or at least keep her under tight surveillance) given that the apartment was probably filled with  blood. Sounds like terrible police work. I wish they had delved a bit more into Tami's background - had she exhibited this kind of obsessive behavior with others in the past? So sad that David's Mother decided to forego her cancer treatment following his murder. The family wound up losing two loved ones. I hope this episode aids in the culprit's capture - she is still out there somewhere and extremely dangerous.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Cheezwiz

[non sequitur]

Episode 3 was really emotional. I also feel so sad for his whole family.  David's father is such a supportive, caring man.

I think in some way, David was still protecting his son when he decided not to go in the room. That decision might have saved his life. Tamera was/ is an evil psychopath, and she could have also killed him.  It's beyond upsetting that she seemingly got away. 

[archer1267]

I tend to Google cases after watching Unsolved Mysteries and was stunned that the show aired this episode with so much background information missing (but maybe it was the only way Tiffany's parents agreed to participate?). It made me wonder how other episodes may have been aired showing a particular bias/slant while not sharing other pertinent info. 

I've read that women tend to kill themselves in ways that are less "violent" or messy than men (think pills vs. shotgun). Throwing oneself in front of a moving train doesn't seem like something a young woman would do, but I can't see this as homicide, either. Perhaps this was unpremeditated and she was so upset by getting caught with her friend's credit card, worried about losing her scholarship etc. as others have pointed out. Teenagers do reckless, impulsive things.

(The stolen credit card reminded me a bit of Maura Murray, who disappeared in NH in 2002. The theft had gotten her kicked out of West Point. I know on the surface it can appear that someone's got it all together and has a lot to look forward to, etc. but IMO happy people don't take friend's credit cards.)

[LakeGal]

Tiffany might have taken her shoes off to walk on the rail on the tracks.  Bare feet would be easier to balance and walk on the rail.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

Tiffany might have taken her shoes off to walk on the rail on the tracks.  Bare feet would be easier to balance and walk on the rail.  

Sure but why remove them 1.75 miles before she even got to the tracks? Along with her headband? That's the part that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Buffalo Jim: Seems pretty obvious he was offed by the strip club owner or someone acting on his behalf. One thing I found a little too pat was the daughter saying just before he died he told her that if anyone did something to him they would make it look like it was drugs with women. If that's the case then how was he gullible enough to be lured to a motel by that stripper? It made me think the daughter just made it up to bolster her case. Which wasn't necessary.

[TooMuchRealityTV]

Episode 4:

I am leaning towards Buffalo Jim being murdered, but I'm not totally convinced. I could almost see this being an actual overdose. He has a history of drug use and I could see someone going to a hotel to party, instead of bringing that kind of thing home. Especially with a history of drug use and a family who doesn't think he's relapsed.

[iMonrey]

What happened to Josh? Most likely case scenario - he toppled into the lake after having one too many. Just because they never found the body doesn't mean it isn't down there. 

I think the Yahoo personals and porn on his computer is a red herring. Someone tried to wash the hard drive a few days after he went missing. That tells me someone else was using that computer, and once he went missing they realized someone might want to look at it so they wanted to get rid of those files. It obviously wasn't Josh. One of his other roommates, no doubt. The one they interviewed who refused the polygraph did seem pretty sketchy.

[Glade]

After seeing the episode about Josh, I googled the case and found that a podcast has recently produced new leads, including multiple chilling accounts of other young men in the area being stalked/abducted by four men in a car in the weeks around the time when Josh went missing; one of them was brought to the woods where the men tried to sexually assault him but he got away: https://thenewsleaders.com/guimond-podcast-reveals-alleged-abduction-attempts/  Too bad the episode didn't cover this.

[Enero]

3 hours ago, TooMuchRealityTV said:

Episode 4:

I am leaning towards Buffalo Jim being murdered, but I'm not totally convinced. I could almost see this being an actual overdose. He has a history of drug use and I could see someone going to a hotel to party, instead of bringing that kind of thing home. Especially with a history of drug use and a family who doesn't think he's relapsed.

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Sure but why remove them 1.75 miles before she even got to the tracks? Along with her headband? That's the part that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Buffalo Jim: Seems pretty obvious he was offed by the strip club owner or someone acting on his behalf. One thing I found a little too pat was the daughter saying just before he died he told her that if anyone did something to him they would make it look like it was drugs with women. If that's the case then how was he gullible enough to be lured to a motel by that stripper? It made me think the daughter just made it up to bolster her case. Which wasn't necessary.

Perhaps I need to finish the episode but I got half way through the Buffalo Jim episode and found myself asking why it was an UM episode. It was obvious this guy died from an overdose. Lisa was a prostitute whom he'd been dealing with for years. They were partying. He went overboard, took too much drugs and died. The room was clean of drugs because Lisa took whatever drugs that remained with her when she left. 

Regarding episode 5,  the landscape of Navajo Nation was stunning.. The stories in this episode gave me chills. Hairs on the back of my neck standing up. I'm a skeptic but the Navajos made me believe that some type of phenomena is going on out there.  Their culture and beliefs are so interesting. I plan to read up more on their creation stories specifically those about "The Emergence." I will say after the thing was jiggling the door handle all night, I would've been trying get the hell out of there the next morning and never return. Lol. 

1 hour ago, Glade said:

After seeing the episode about Josh, I googled the case and found that a podcast has recently produced new leads, including multiple chilling accounts of other young men in the area being stalked/abducted by four men in a car in the weeks around the time when Josh went missing; one of them was brought to the woods where the men tried to sexually assault him but he got away: https://thenewsleaders.com/guimond-podcast-reveals-alleged-abduction-attempts/  Too bad the episode didn't cover this.

Well they did talk about other young men being abducted or disappeared and possibly killed in the area. I'm thinking he either fell in the lake and they just never found his body. Or he tried to do a hookup with one of the men he met online and things went bad. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Enero

[Glade]

16 minutes ago, Enero said:

Well they did talk about other young men being abducted or disappeared and possibly killed in the area.

No, the episode talked about two young men who had disappeared in other nearbye cities, they didn't discuss these attempted rapes/abductions (who all of whom managed to escape so they didn't become missing persons) on the same campus within weeks of Josh's disappearance.  That is newly unearthed, and very compelling evidence.