S01.E08: Flash vs. Arrow

[bettername2come]

I just realized something I loved about this episode. "You knew he was going to shoot me?!" "It's really hard to tell when he's kidding." It's a callback to his last episode of Arrow where Olivr and Felicity had the "What are you going to do, put an arrow in him?" "I am considering it." "Don't worry, he's kidding."

The dialogue in this one really stood out, even amongst the regular cast.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I LOVED this episode! I think I was smiling/grinning/laughing through 90% of it.

 

The only thing that made this episode less than perfect was Iris at the end. As if Barry is the one who calls her all the time. Please. She's the one who is ALWAYS texting him, wanting to see him and I find it hard to believe that she doesn't get that Barry/Flash was under Prism's/Bivolo's influence like everyone else. That was SUCH a Lana Lang thing to do.

 

And admittedly, the only Flash I'm really familiar with personality wise, is Wally (yeah, yeah, he no longer exists, which is just WRONG!), due to Justice League/Justice League Unlimited, but Gustin's Flash/Barry, just makes me think, he's Wally. He's just so Adorkable.

[Ariah]

 

Does he have body armor underneath his shirt ?

 

Actually, I think he does. But it was never stated.

 

I liked the episode - the cheerfulness of Flash bled into Arrowverse and even Oliver Queen smiled. Actually, it was kind of weird seeing Oliver having coffee with Felicity (I guess he's just taking whatever minute he can have with her - platonically).

 

Barry's frustration with Oliver grew before the fatefull meeting with the meta-villain. There was this incident with shooting the policeman, there was Iris' fascination (and the list - Barry keeps thinking about her as his girl, so now he knows 'his girl' is willing to cheat with Oliver...). The arrow in the back just drew the point home.

The fight itself was fun to watch and my money was on Oliver - Barry needs to understand there's more to crime-fighting than luck and speed.

 

Also loved Felicity's reaction to Barry dissing Iris. I guess Felicity thinks Iris is having the same feeling for her superhero as ms Smoak does for hers.

 

Wells probably checked more info on Oliver from his Files on the Future and came out fully equipped. I still wonder if his talk about Oliver's father was actually about the father... Or did the future Wells talk with Oliver himself in 10 years time.

[Glory]

So, this Prism basically provides a dose of Red K to Barry Allen? Okay then... I was getting mega shades of Smallville with the red eyes and rage. 

 

I wish Felicity was on this show all the time.

 

Oliver Queen is certainly handsome. But as someone who watched a lot of Smallville and has not seen one episode of Arrow I was so disoriented. I know they are two completely separate universes but, I kept picturing this guy: 

 

[In2You]

I LOVED this episode! I think I was smiling/grinning/laughing through 90% of it.

 

The only thing that made this episode less than perfect was Iris at the end. As if Barry is the one who calls her all the time. Please. She's the one who is ALWAYS texting him, wanting to see him and I find it hard to believe that she doesn't get that Barry/Flash was under Prism's/Bivolo's influence like everyone else. That was SUCH a Lana Lang thing to do.

 

And admittedly, the only Flash I'm really familiar with personality wise, is Wally (yeah, yeah, he no longer exists, which is just WRONG!), due to Justice League/Justice League Unlimited, but Gustin's Flash/Barry, just makes me think, he's Wally. He's just so Adorkable.

That Wally IIRC had Barry Allen's backstory and alot of Bart's personality.  But yeah they write this version of Barry more like Wally/Bart than Barry Allen. Wally exists in the current comicverse but I'm not sure how they'll incorporate him on this show since they made Iris an only child and

An adult Linda Park is coming

Edited December 3, 2014 by In2You

[quarks]

I didn't, however, miss Oliver, the fail love advice guru,

 

 

Yeah. My main reactions there were, a) Oliver, you are literally the last person on either show who should be giving relationship advice to anyone. This week's metahuman of rage almost certainly knew more about having a happy, solid relationship than Oliver Queen does (I know we didn't see the guy with anyone, but this is Oliver Queen we're talking about, so I feel certain this is a safe assumption), and b) Oliver, need we remind you what happened the last time you gave someone your terrible relationship advice?  Stick to training people with arrows, and let absolutely everyone else dish out the relationship advice.  

[Primetimer]

Don't let a silly fight stop you from thinking that The Flash and the Arrow are tight.

Read the story

[Chicago Redshirt]

Rainbow Raider/Prism has the ability to manipulate other emotions too -- make people scared, jealous and what not. Because he only showed the rage/red ability, calling him Rainbow Raider/Prism doesn't make much sense in this context. Although I wish that Caitlin or Cisco had lampshaded "Roy G. Bivolo" -- a play on the mnemnonic for the colors of the rainbow in their order (Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Indigo Violet.) It also seems like going with rage seems like a bad call because what people might do in rage is unpredictable.

I'd second most of the consensus about how well done the episode was in general, how it was pretty weak that we didn't see Prism taken down.

A few other random thoughts:

1. So Ollie is one of Iris's "I get to cheat with" people. I wonder if Eddie knows and who the other two are. Surprised Barry didn't ask.

2. Eddie and the anti-Flash task force doesn't make so much sense to me, at least as focused on the Flash. I mean there have been documented instances of metahumans causing as much death and destruction as they have and up till now nothing indicating Flash is a problem. I mean if Eddie is more than he seems, it might make sense. But what would make Capt. Singh approve it? That Flash stole his Big Belly Burger?

3. I guess Joe can think about looking into a pro career since he did end up thanking the Arrow.

4. So the cops didn't bother to ask who rented the storage unit that the crook was using?

5. I love Felicity offering a Hannukah present.

6. I love Barry burning Ollie about Huntress and Deathstroke.

7. Cisco was on fire.

[ybrik]

Well Oliver doesn't/hasn't call Huntress or Deathstroke by those names so what Oliver said still stands for him.

Loved Caitlin running from the boomerang. I wonder if that happens alot when Cisco is testing his gadgets.

[Lady Calypso]

7. Cisco was on fire.

 

 

No, he wasn't. Ronnie was! Hehe!

[KirkB]

Barry being late all the time is actually consistent with the comics. He and Hal Jordan were close friends and Hal was always ragging on him for being the fastest man alive and terminally late. He's scatter brained and brilliant. He tends to get distracted easily and wait until the last minute for everything, which is okay for someone who can do almost everything in the last minute.

 

I did find it odd, now that I stop and think about it, that the boomerang was the whole reason for Oliver and company to be in Central City in the first place yet it was all but forgotten about after the first few minutes. Sure, Oliver got distracted first helping and later stopping Barry, but they needed help finding a guy killing people in their own city and yet, as far as we know, left without getting it.

 

The whole scene with Oliver's baby mamma (honestly how many people are going to remember/care who she was?) could have been spent seeing Arrow and Flash catch the bad guy, or almost anything else really. I didn't care about it on Arrow, where it was relevant, here it was so random and pointless, unless she's going to end up a villain who fights Barry.

[TV Anonymous]

This comment should be in Arrow thread, but it happened on The Flash.

 

I know that Emily Bett Rickards is pretty and hot. But what with all the effort to sex Felicity up? From all her rather inappropriate working clothes to last night's burning blouse. I like season 1 Felicity when she was smart yet innocent and a bit naive.

[ybrik]

I was thinking that they weren't intending to stay in Central City. I think they wanted to drop off the boomerang and gone back to Starling and waited for whatever the Star Labs crew found out. I think Oliver wanted to get going as quickly as possible to avoid working together since he knew issues would arise but Felicity staying kind of forced his hand.

[ChelseaNH]

His expressions whenever he sees Barry using his powers was just to die for.

 

I'm calling it the Diggle boggle, and it's inspiring me to start a gif collection.

[phoenics]

I think the reason why they had Oliver be a debbie-downer with his comments about "guys like us don't get the girl" is because Barry is going to flip the script at the end of the Arrow part of the two-parter.

I think the concept of the Starling crew bringing some much needed gravitas and seriousness to how Barry handles his crime fighting is going to flip a bit and move to Barry and company helping Arrow lighten up a bit and bring some hope and inspiration to Starling City.

So I think Barry might realize at the end that Oliver needs the "hero gets the girl" peptalk and try to inspire him that way... just like Oliver tried to be Barry's Yoda.

All in all I LOVED this episode. I loved how well they used all of the characters and I loved that I didn't feel like my faves didn't get their fair share... I love that a lot of Barry's repressed anger was about his love for Iris and the frustration of not being able to express it... I'm pretty sure David Nutter had something to do with the opening scene of Barry doing random acts of kindness because he is so sprung on Iris... that shot where he's watching her in slo-mo and she doesn't even know he's there... loved it. I think TPTB have something really special with the Candace Patton/Grant Gustin chemistry - and Grant Gustin is the cutest little WestAllen shipper on twitter... lol.

Loved Oliver in this episode... you actually feel badly for him when you see him around so many "normal" people who seem so natural and full of joy - he's just so messed up... it's sad. NOT here for the baby mama storyline though - wth was that?

I did NOT start off as an Olicity fan, but I'm now fully on board - plus I loved how the shows paralleled WestAllen and Olicity - seemingly as endgame (to me at least).

I thought the dialogue was EXCELLENT too - some of the jokes made me literally laugh out loud!

I'm beginning to become suspicious of Eddie and his Flash Task Force. The writers seem much smarter than to just let that be it - but his reasoning to go after The Flash seems weird considering he's not really going after anyone else. Or the writers really are just trying to make him initially look like he's doing it out of jealousy - I guess that could be it. But then after the Arrow incident and The Flash Road Rage Incident, now he seems more justified.

I loved that Oliver sensed something was off with Wells. But Wells is a huge hypocrite to be coming down on Oliver/Arrow after all of the dirt he's done. I guess it takes one to know one? If in fact, Wells is "good"? I still don't know if he's good or bad or one of those "bad things are okay if done in the service of good" kinda guys.

[CooperTV]

Things I liked:

 

– Wells and Joe teaming up to warn Barry about Arrow, and then saving him with flashy lights.

– The Captain casually mentioning he's gay.

– Eddie and Iris being hot together.

– Felicity and Caitlin being adorable and smart.

– The cold open with Barry being a good mood.

– Star Wars references.

– Diggle being stunned by Barry's powers.

 

Things I didn't like:

 

– Everything else. The plot was nonsensical, the resolution of the big bad just came out of nowhere (instead we got very important Ollie's baby mama scene). I really can't stand Arrow and Oliver and I was bored by him through the entire episode. Oliver should just get away from this show with his smug lecturing and useless relationship advice. He thought there's something off about Wells? Ollie, look in mirror sometime, you huge murdering hypocrite.

Edited December 3, 2014 by CooperTV

[Iamsweetdee]

Things I liked:

 

– Wells and Joe teaming up to warn Barry about Arrow, and then saving him with flashy lights.

– The Captain casually mentioning he's gay.

– Eddie and Iris being hot together.

– Felicity and Caitlin being adorable and smart.

– The cold open with Barry being a good mood.

– Star Wars references.

– Diggle being stunned by Barry's powers.

 

Things I didn't like:

 

– Everything else. The plot was nonsensical, the resolution of the big bad just came out of nowhere (instead we got very important Ollie's baby mama scene). I really can't stand Arrow and Oliver and I was bored by him through the entire episode. Oliver should just get away from this show with his smug lecturing and useless relationship advice. He thought there's something off about Wells? Ollie, look in mirror sometime, you huge murdering hypocrite.

Agree with everything, except the Caitlin and Felicity stuff. Now that this is over, can the Arrow folks go back to their show and let this one stand on its own? I don't need Failicity coming over and "blessing" the other females as if that character is somehow the perfect female, and I definitely don't need some multiple murdering asshole trying to tell someone how to be a "hero". I stopped watching Arrow for a reason and I don't want that reason to continue to infect this show. 

[Minneapple]

That was fun! I liked the contrast between the happy, hopeful Barry and the eternally serious and angsty Oliver.

I enjoyed Felicity's appearance much more in this episode than in the last one.

Looking forward to tonight's Arrow ep.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Minneapple

[saber5055]

Liked this episode. Got a huge laugh out of Ollie shooting Barry in the back, then pulling the arrows out: "I hear you heal fast."

 

Is Baby Momma the same actress who Mrs. Queen paid off a season or so ago, to disappear while pregnant with Ollie's love child? I hope not. Although if so, she should still have plenty of $$ to loan Ollie since he's no longer a billionaire.

 

Eddie and Iris together in bed ... oh my. Barry needs to know he's totally being outdone in the love department now. Wish he would have flashed by the window so he'd just get over Iris.

 

So Ollie is one of three guys Iris would cheat with. And Barry didn't ask who the other two are? Don't inquiring minds want to know?

 

Felicity in her underwear ... another "Oh, my."

[bluebonnet]

I think the reason why they had Oliver be a debbie-downer with his comments about "guys like us don't get the girl" is because Barry is going to flip the script at the end of the Arrow part of the two-parter.

I think the concept of the Starling crew bringing some much needed gravitas and seriousness to how Barry handles his crime fighting is going to flip a bit and move to Barry and company helping Arrow lighten up a bit and bring some hope and inspiration to Starling City.

So I think Barry might realize at the end that Oliver needs the "hero gets the girl" peptalk and try to inspire him that way... just like Oliver tried to be Barry's Yoda.

 

Interesting point and makes a lot of sense.  Barry could point out to Ollie that while their situations are different, it doesn't always have to be the hero being lonely.  Barry's love interest happens to be his foster sister who is also dating someone else.  Barry hasn't revealed his feelings to his interest.  On the other hand, Felicity is aware that Ollie loves her and she returns the feelings and she's not dating anyone else yet.  Plus Felicity is in danger whether or not they are together simply because she is part of Team Arrow.  I hope this pep talk happens.  

[Humbugged]

No, they never did. 

 

Oliver's baby mama was in one scene last season and I think a lot of people didn't remember.  I had to run through names before I realized who she was.  Odd that that scene occurred on The Flash but it was a legitimate surprise and an advantage of a shared universe.

 

This episode was another example as to why Barry should have told Iris about his secret identity earlier...he definitely could have smoothed this whole situation over with her.  Though she would have had to keep the secret from Eddie and it might have revealed his feelings for her.

Not really .If they were going to introduce her for the issues it brings in the back half (they said at a screening of both parts of the xover that stuff would appear on Flash that would have consequences for Arrow and on Arrow for Flash) it would be in Central City as that is where she moved to when Moira paid her off.

 

5. I love Felicity offering a Hannukah present.

 

 Yeah , a throw away but funny .And is she going to do stuff like that every time she comes to visit as she upgraded the system the last time she was there as well ?

Edited December 3, 2014 by Humbugged

[jah1986]

Great episode.  I've never seen a single episode of Arrow but is he always so serious? Is that show depressing? Because he seems like a humorless guy.  Just my random thoughts, I guess I might give tonight's Arrow episode a try. I liked angry Barry, does that make me a bad person?

 

So is that fire guy Ronnie? Why did it never occur to anyone at STAR labs that he became a metahuman?  I've never read the comics so forgive me if these are all dumb questions.

[calliope1975]

Great episode.  I've never seen a single episode of Arrow but is he always so serious? Is that show depressing? Because he seems like a humorless guy.  Just my random thoughts, I guess I might give tonight's Arrow episode a try. I liked angry Barry, does that make me a bad person?

 

Yeah, Oliver's pretty serious. There was a glorious time in S2A that was a perfect mix of action and fun, but Arrow's pretty dark and humorless at the moment. It's why I loved this episode so much. Made me remember why I fell in love with Team Arrow. I'm hoping the tone will carry over to Arrow tonight. 

[Humbugged]

Great episode.  I've never seen a single episode of Arrow but is he always so serious? Is that show depressing? Because he seems like a humorless guy.  Just my random thoughts, I guess I might give tonight's Arrow episode a try. I liked angry Barry, does that make me a bad person?

 

So is that fire guy Ronnie? Why did it never occur to anyone at STAR labs that he became a metahuman?  I've never read the comics so forgive me if these are all dumb questions.

Oliver is really the Dark Knight version of the Arrow so he gets to be the straight man while Felicity and Digg do the funny.

[LeeshY]

I'm trying to like Barry but he still continues to annoy me with his attitude, and I'm sorry to say Iris is just grating. I just want to yell "shut UP already, we get it, you're breathless with his existence!" I just want her to be less one note. It's like a broken record with that girl. Is there anyway she can become a metahuman herself?

Cisco and Caitlin for me make the show right now, I look forward to their scenes. It would be interesting to see some more backstory on Cisco as we did for Caitlin.

It was nice to see Oliver banter with a bit of comedy and as always I love love love Felicity and Diggle made me giggle (I know, <>).

Barry, he just doesn't learn from any of his experiences. There isn't any growth, if anything he's becoming more belligerent. With Arrow, Oliver evolved even in season one, and the team learned to listen to each other and it was evident in each episode. I know it's season one, but there isn't any evidence of Barry evolving or becoming even a little humble about what he's become. He's flat out ignoring what the advice he's getting, even though when he does things his own way they rarely go well. I don't find myself cheering for him, it's become a little dull. Even after Oliver told him to back off Iris, the only reason it happened was because she told him to stop contacting her, and I'm not looking forward to this eventual scenes of him trying to change her mind, and her coming back around. Sigh, snooze. I

It would have been interesting for him to just disappear for a bit, using the fact he was affected so badly by Chroma as a sign he still has a lot of learning to do and he's better off for now and just letting her be angry and be won over eventually simply by him getting better as The Flash. But the 'let me explain...' gah! Anyway.

"When did we get facial recognition software" just great writing and ever better delivery evidenced with even the smallest dialogue between the characters.

And OK - super stupid comment, but what the HELL is going on with Stephen Amell's eye makeup? For some reason this season it looks like he's got this guy liner thing a la Hook on OUAT and it's distracting! I actually watched an earlier episode just to see if I'm going crazy, and there is definitely a difference. It's like he's shadier. But maybe that's the point.

Robbie Amell! Yeeessss! I was one of the crazies that liked the Tomorrow People and was sad it didn't get a second season chance. So happy to see he's landed here.

[wayne67]

Do you think Iris intriped blogger that she is has noticed the curious absence of resolution to all these meta human criminals?

 

I mean as far as Iris knows they show up cause chaos The Flash shows up a couple of times and then the troublesome meta human disappears with none of their family having any idea on their location ?

 

I mean if there were supervillains running around the place I would like to know what the resident super hero was doing about it.

 

Though I doubt Iris is much of a reporter she's more of a fan girl at this point... or was. After the Flash smacked out her bf and ruined her car she may not be that enthusiastic about a super fast do gooder who reports to noone

 

On that note. Does he get paid by Wells for being a lab rat? Does Wells pay the others? I mean the lab blew up. I can't imagine the funding would be rolling in after that and the law suits should be tying him up in red tape and draining his money reserves.

 

I like that Barry isn't so serious about being responsible for life and death as other more boring superheros but sometimes it seems to lean too far in the other direction. As the criminal metahumans seem more like an excuse to show off his super powers and the search for his mother's killer seems to take a back seat to his borderline creepy obsession with his foster sister.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Great episode.  I've never seen a single episode of Arrow but is he always so serious? Is that show depressing? Because he seems like a humorless guy.  Just my random thoughts, I guess I might give tonight's Arrow episode a try. I liked angry Barry, does that make me a bad person?

 

So is that fire guy Ronnie? Why did it never occur to anyone at STAR labs that he became a metahuman?  I've never read the comics so forgive me if these are all dumb questions.

 

A lot has happened to Ollie to make him so serious: multiple murders of, serious bodily harm to and kidnappings of his family, friends and lovers, years of being in kill-or-be-killed scenarios that have left him mentally and physically scarred and the two major terrorist attacks referenced in this episode. However, he does have his lighter side, which occasionally he is able to let out. He actually showed it some in this episode with his interactions with Felicity, for example.

 

The fire guy is Ronnie. Presumably, Flash is going to say that there was no sign of Ronnie in the vicinity of the particle accelerator, so the smartest presumption would be that he was dead. From all they knew, he was last seen doing something to try to shut it off that was certain suicide. However, the particle accelerator makes the impossible possible, so maybe it appeared to disintegrate him, but he somehow reintegrated elsewhere.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Chicago Redshirt

[Minneapple]

Great episode.  I've never seen a single episode of Arrow but is he always so serious? Is that show depressing? Because he seems like a humorless guy. 

Yeah, but it makes sense that he wouldn't really be a happy-go-lucky kind of guy, given everything he went through (being lost at sea, stranded on an island, constantly being in life-or-death situations). He's actually lightened up in the past two seasons, you know, not going around killing people at will. Arrow is a pretty dark show. The Flash is noticeably happier and brighter -- and one thing I hope is that The Flash never loses that brighter vibe. I do like Arrow, but there's only so much angst and depression I can take (SHIELD is also noticeably darker this year than it was last year).

 

Forgot to mention, I liked this exchange:

 

Ollie: We can talk later about you giving your enemies code names.

Barry: Oh you mean over coffee with Deathstroke and the Huntress?

 

LOL. I also loved Iris fangirling over Ollie. I've come around on Iris. She wasn't my favorite in the beginning but I really like her now.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Minneapple

[phoenics]

Interesting point and makes a lot of sense.  Barry could point out to Ollie that while their situations are different, it doesn't always have to be the hero being lonely.  Barry's love interest happens to be his foster sister who is also dating someone else.  Barry hasn't revealed his feelings to his interest.  On the other hand, Felicity is aware that Ollie loves her and she returns the feelings and she's not dating anyone else yet.  Plus Felicity is in danger whether or not they are together simply because she is part of Team Arrow.  I hope this pep talk happens.

So the pep talk happened - it didn't focus directly on love lives, but it did focus on Barry inspiring Ollie and convincing him that he could also be an inspiration - not as Arrow but as Oliver Queen.

It was quite nice.

I enjoyed the Flash crossover more though... even though I like Arrow. But it was really well done even then though (the 2 part episodes). Well done writers.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Oh, and of course, her getting her shit burned off.  You did that on purpose, didn't you, Barry!

 

Hilarious typo  :)

Edited December 4, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[slayer2]

Loved it. This show has far surpassed Arrow as my home show. Cisco/Caitlin/Joe/Dr,Crazy.Wells and Barry (Team Flash) have begun to mean more to me than Team Arrow. I did enjoy how they all interacted though. Diggle's reaction to Barry was just priceless, priceless.

 

It was also nice to see Barry lose his cool however it was invoked because Barry is so sweet and loving and tolerant to and of everyone and he's been dealt a really shitty hand, I think people (like Oliver) assume that because he's all positive and upbeat that his life was sunshine and roses but it just wasn't. Some people are just have a natural predisposition to help people, Oliver didn't get that until he was marooned on an island but Barry has been that way his whole life. It's why I love the show and its hero so much more, it just warms my cold dead heart that a person behaves this way in such a heartless world.

 

So worth The Tomorrow People sacrifice and speaking of The Tomorrow People, excited to see what happens with Ronnie. I love the little post-scripts they do at the end of the show, it reminds me so much of how tv used to be with The Monkees and Wonder Woman and using up the full hour. The Flash gives me hope for television in so many ways. I'm so happy to have it on my screen. So very happy. 

 

 

Oliver Queen is certainly handsome. But as someone who watched a lot of Smallville and has not seen one episode of Arrow I was so disoriented. I know they are two completely separate universes but, I kept picturing this guy:

I used to do that too and to this day I still prefer that version of Green Arrow. I don't dig the whole dark as Batman vibe that every comic tries to evoke nowadays. I'm just more of a light-hearted hero kind of girl.

Edited December 4, 2014 by slayer2

[SevenStars]

 

 

The only thing that made this episode less than perfect was Iris at the end. As if Barry is the one who calls her all the time. Please. She's the one who is ALWAYS texting him, wanting to see him and I find it hard to believe that she doesn't get that Barry/Flash was under Prism's/Bivolo's influence like everyone else. That was SUCH a Lana Lang thing to do.

Iris never denied that she was the one going out of her way to meet with the Flash( despite the fact that the Flash did the same also) , she just decided she will no longer do that anymore because of the fact that he violently and without provocation attacked her bf and might have killed him if Arrow hadn't stopped him.

 

And how was Iris suppose to know that the Flash was under Prism influence ? The only people who seems to have realize this and know this are the ones who dealt with Barry and knew that the Barry they were seeing wasn't their usually Barry. Even Joe wouldn't have know that Barry was under the influence if he hadn't  seen Barry's eyes glow red. Caitlin, who knew about the whole Prism thing didn't even realize that Barry was under its influence in their arguments, until Joe came and pointed it out to them. 

 

Iris's decision in the end showed that she wasn't stupid enough to allow her fangirly over Flash to blind her to the fact that Flash could be very dangerous and that she doesn't know all sides to him. So she is doing what Joe/Eddie/Barry asked her to do, which is stay away from The Flash

[ribboninthesky1]

Agreed. 

 

I liked angry Barry, does that make me a bad person?

 

If it does, let's be bad together.  For one thing, ragey Barry was at least not pining and passive-aggressive.  Two, and I don't think the show will delve much into it, but it showed that Barry's "nice guy"ness masks his own share of issues, including arrogance, jealousy, and bitterness.  The way he went after Eddie was hardcore, and I'm not entirely sure I'd side with Barry if Eddie became an enemy/villain.        

[wayne67]

Agreed. 

 

 

If it does, let's be bad together.  For one thing, ragey Barry was at least not pining and passive-aggressive.  Two, and I don't think the show will delve much into it, but it showed that Barry's "nice guy"ness masks his own share of issues, including arrogance, jealousy, and bitterness.  The way he went after Eddie was hardcore, and I'm not entirely sure I'd side with Barry if Eddie became an enemy/villain.        

 

Totally agree

For all Eddie knows The Flash could be scouting out locations for all these criminals and ensuring that they get away with the money.

 

From his POV The Flash shows up at crime scenes with other criminals and then they disappear and the money is still gone and when the cops try and capture the criminal he often interferes. So it's possible that The Flash is using these other meta humans as front men and disposing of them afterwards. Eddie doesn't know anything about The Flash other that he shows up a lot in crime scenes without explanation and doesn't bother to testify and the criminals disappear off the face of the Earth later.

 

I mean Barry is technically a criminal too between property damage, vigilantism, assaults, speeding, kidnapping, false imprisonment of people without trial and at least one case of minor arson. Not to mention he's flirting with Eddie's girlfriend behind his back using super speed to impress her. I'm totally siding with Eddie here.

 

Eddie's a cop and The Flash is a very dangerous unknown prone to poor decision making.

[ribboninthesky1]

Yes, The Flash is as much a vigilante as Arrow, he just hasn't killed people.  It's why I thought Joe and Harrison's "concerns" about the Arrow's influence were amusing.  Joe may approve of The Flash because it's Barry and he's seen him in action, but that doesn't make it legal.  I do believe Barry genuinely helps people, but it's not without some collateral damage, as you mention wayne67. Eddie has little info about The Flash at the moment, and being attacked by ragey Flash just cemented his concerns.  The show is gonna have to do some heavy lifting to make me NOT side with Eddie.       

Edited December 4, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[wayne67]

Yes, The Flash is as much a vigilante as Arrow, he just hasn't killed people.  It's why I thought Joe and Harrison's "concerns" about the Arrow's influence were amusing. 

 

Well this is where I have trouble with Barry. The Flash could have saved multiple man from plummeting (sp?) to his death if he felt like it; negligent homicide perhaps ? There's also being complicit after the fact in Wells sacrificing Girder to stall Electric guy. Speaking of Electric guy did Flash choke him to death with a power surge ? There's also the soldiers that he could have removed from Plastique's blast range (though I'm not exactly sure on the timeline of his presence so I may just be imagining that one). There's also that guard he didn't even notice dying in the background of the scene with his dad... And the guard who died because he got cocky with Captain Cold.

 

So technically he's less of a murderer and more of an incompetent super hero. Plus with the implied testing of the prisoners while they're contained, he's also complicit in illegal human experimentation.

 

I'd be willing to overlook these as unfortunate but inevitable mistakes of a rookie super hero but Barry the super hero doesn't seem to be growing... He gets more powers as time progresses but he often seems too reliant on his team to do his heavy thinking for him or he completely ignores them to do whatever he feels like much to his and others detriment. Plus I really want to see some progress, or more focus on this whole hunt down the killer of my mother plotline. He's also wildly inconsistent. One moment he's telling Iris to stop reporting on him and then he's showing up all the time flirting with her and giving her information.

 

Pick a stance already. The red Kryptonite just brought out his personality flaws to the surface, they didn't invent them. He was jealous of Eddie before The red K and he was jealous after. He either needs to tell Iris the truth or move on already and try and find himself a grown up relationship based on honesty trust and mutual attraction. This is pathetic.

[Trini]

 

The show is gonna have to do some heavy lifting to make me NOT side with Eddie.

Responding in the Eddie thread.

[In2You]

Loved it. This show has far surpassed Arrow as my home show. Cisco/Caitlin/Joe/Dr,Crazy.Wells and Barry (Team Flash) have begun to mean more to me than Team Arrow. I did enjoy how they all interacted though. Diggle's reaction to Barry was just priceless, priceless.

 

It was also nice to see Barry lose his cool however it was invoked because Barry is so sweet and loving and tolerant to and of everyone and he's been dealt a really shitty hand, I think people (like Oliver) assume that because he's all positive and upbeat that his life was sunshine and roses but it just wasn't. Some people are just have a natural predisposition to help people, Oliver didn't get that until he was marooned on an island but Barry has been that way his whole life. It's why I love the show and its hero so much more, it just warms my cold dead heart that a person behaves this way in such a heartless world.

 

So worth The Tomorrow People sacrifice and speaking of The Tomorrow People, excited to see what happens with Ronnie. I love the little post-scripts they do at the end of the show, it reminds me so much of how tv used to be with The Monkees and Wonder Woman and using up the full hour. The Flash gives me hope for television in so many ways. I'm so happy to have it on my screen. So very happy. 

 

I used to do that too and to this day I still prefer that version of Green Arrow. I don't dig the whole dark as Batman vibe that every comic tries to evoke nowadays. I'm just more of a light-hearted hero kind of girl.

This show wasn't The Tomorrow People's replacement.

[Chicago Redshirt]

And how was Iris suppose to know that the Flash was under Prism influence ? 

 

In the scene at the end of the episode, Flash told her that he was being affected by a meta-human and that had messed up his head.

 

She also intuited that the fact that he had been going around risking his life helping people meant that he wouldn't normally turn around and start hurting them instead.

 

Iris presumably knew about the Prism attack at the bank, where all the people raged out and attacked each other. Witnesses did see a red streak, according to Joe. So presumably blogger Iris, who has been tracking Flash sightings, would know about people getting suddenly getting enraged. 

Totally agree

For all Eddie knows The Flash could be scouting out locations for all these criminals and ensuring that they get away with the money.

 

From his POV The Flash shows up at crime scenes with other criminals and then they disappear and the money is still gone and when the cops try and capture the criminal he often interferes. So it's possible that The Flash is using these other meta humans as front men and disposing of them afterwards. Eddie doesn't know anything about The Flash other that he shows up a lot in crime scenes without explanation and doesn't bother to testify and the criminals disappear off the face of the Earth later.

 

I mean Barry is technically a criminal too between property damage, vigilantism, assaults, speeding, kidnapping, false imprisonment of people without trial and at least one case of minor arson. Not to mention he's flirting with Eddie's girlfriend behind his back using super speed to impress her. I'm totally siding with Eddie here.

 

Eddie's a cop and The Flash is a very dangerous unknown prone to poor decision making.

 

We don't officially know what Eddie knows. (And of course there's a decent possibility that Eddie 

is Reverse Flash and has less than altruistic motives for setting up an Anti-Flash task force.

 

But presumably, they do know at least some of his life-saving efforts.

[Jack Kerouac]

 

So worth The Tomorrow People sacrifice and speaking of The Tomorrow People, excited to see what happens with Ronnie.

 

Man, i hated that show so much, I was actively hoping it would get cancelled. Sorry!

[slayer2]

This show wasn't The Tomorrow People's replacement.

It was in a way because CW only has so much to budget and to greenlight this they had to cancel some other shows. It was between The Tomorrow People, Beauty and the Beast and The 100 and The Tomorrow People "won". The Flash isn't cheap to make.

Man, i hated that show so much, I was actively hoping it would get cancelled. Sorry!

I wasn't so crazy about the second half once I realized that I wasn't going to get my Jastrid and they were just going to keep shoving Cara down my throat. Astrid and John were the fan favourites there and they really screwed the pooch on that one. They fully earned their cancellation and The Flash fully deserved its greenlight. Edited December 6, 2014 by slayer2

[Kromm]

I'm drawing a line in the sand.

 

I will NOT accept a Firestorm who's a bad guy.  Even a morally gray one won't sit right, actually.

 

There HAVE been alternate versions of Firestorm, but the Ronnie Raymond one is very deep in the good guy category.  I hope we've just been shown a temporarily confused Ronnie here and not a mentally damaged one, or something like that, just to boost Barry's character (and keep Caitlin's place on the show).

 

I doubt we really have room for Firestorm to be around permanently, but I hope they find a way to give him an arc as a hero, have him leave for some other nebulously defined city, and deal with it that way.  Caitlin can be romantically confused, fine, but decide to stay.

We don't officially know what Eddie knows. (And of course there's a decent possibility that Eddie 

is Reverse Flash and has less than altruistic motives for setting up an Anti-Flash task force.

 

But presumably, they do know at least some of his life-saving efforts.

To me what's been set up here is Eddie

not YET being Reverse Flash, but he somehow gets activated as such, presumably by Wells screwing around and adapting Blackout's ability to absorb energy from Barry. WHY Wells would do this is a mystery, but maybe Eddie stumbles into Wells shenanigans, or maybe there's even some twist where a Professor Zoom and a Reverse Flash BOTH exist as two separate people (Wells AND Eddie).

Edited December 5, 2014 by Kromm

[SevenStars]

In the scene at the end of the episode, Flash told her that he was being affected by a meta-human and that had messed up his head.

 

She also intuited that the fact that he had been going around risking his life helping people meant that he wouldn't normally turn around and start hurting them instead.

 

Iris presumably knew about the Prism attack at the bank, where all the people raged out and attacked each other. Witnesses did see a red streak, according to Joe. So presumably blogger Iris, who has been tracking Flash sightings, would know about people getting suddenly getting enraged. 

 

Yes the Flash told her at the end but why should she believe him when he told her that she didn't really know anything about him. For all she knows, he might have been covering his ass after showing it. She doesn't know because she doesn't know that the man under the mask is not an unknown stranger that she has been fangirly all over but instead is her best-friend that she knows very well. Like you said, Iris assumed she knew Flash, that's why she was defending him to her boyfriend, her father and Barry because she believed in him. But the Flash attacking her boyfriend makes her think that she might not know him as well as she thinks.

 

Yes, she knows the Flash usually help people and maybe, maybe if the Flash had attacked a group of bystanders she would have questioned why, but he attacked her boyfriend and made it clear that it was personal. That gave her pause and it should.

 

Yes, she might have heard about the bank situation, but no one, including her, knew exactly what was going on. They just knew something strange was happening, but that doesn't mean that Iris should have known that Flash being there meant he was affected especially since he wasn't showing signs of it there. Unlike everyone else there, it appeared that he was the only one who wasn't affected because he was helping people out instead of attacking them. The Flash didn't get affected until later, and there was no way Iris would have know about that time. 

 

I mean seriously, if Caitlin, who knows EVERYTHING that was going on with Barry/Flash couldn't tell that he was under the influence how the could Iris, who only had a little bit of information ?

Edited December 5, 2014 by SevenStars

[GHScorpiosRule]

Yes the Flash told her at the end but why should she believe him when he told her that she didn't really know anything about him. For all she knows, he might have been covering his ass after showing it. She doesn't know because she doesn't know that the man under the mask is not an unknown stranger that she has been fangirly all over but instead is her best-friend that she knows very well. Like you said, Iris assumed she knew Flash, that's why she was defending him to her boyfriend, her father and Barry because she believed in him. But the Flash attacking her boyfriend makes her think that she might not know him as well as she thinks.

 

Yes, she knows the Flash usually help people and maybe, maybe if the Flash had attacked a group of bystanders she would have questioned why, but he attacked her boyfriend and made it clear that it was personal. That gave her pause and it should.

 

Yes, she might have heard about the bank situation, but no one, including her, knew exactly what was going on. They just knew something strange was happening, but that doesn't mean that Iris should have known that Flash being there meant he was affected especially since he wasn't showing signs of it there. Unlike everyone else there, it appeared that he was the only one who wasn't affected because he was helping people out instead of attacking them. The Flash didn't get affected until later, and there was no way Iris would have know about that time. 

 

 

Because Iris is the daughter of a cop; she herself wanted to become a cop.  And she's supposed to be intelligent, and I find it difficult to believe that she didn't hear or talk to her dad about what was going on with people who had been influenced by Prism.

[Chicago Redshirt]

There's a difference between Caitlin not noticing Barry's anger as being Prism-induced at first and Iris not.

Barry has certainly been angry without Prism influence before, Caitlin has seen him be angry. What Barry said under his influence to Caitlin is within the realm of normal behavior. It's in my book a fair point. Caitlin has been acting towards Barry with Ronnie in mind, both in the sense of "Ronnie got hurt and I don't want Barry to get hurt" and in the flirtation sense. 

When Flash went to confront Eddie, he was far, far more irrational and out of character than Barry had been with Caitlin. He was behaving far differently than the Flash had ever done. Iris explicitly noticed that and commented on it.

 

I think it speaks poorly of Iris that she would let this one out-of-character act would overshadow all the good Flash has done and not believe his explanation.

[SevenStars]

Because Iris is the daughter of a cop; she herself wanted to become a cop.  And she's supposed to be intelligent, and I find it difficult to believe that she didn't hear or talk to her dad about what was going on with people who had been influenced by Prism.

What does she wanting to be a cop have to do with the fact that she is dealing with a metahuman that she doesn't really know, who reminded her of this fact  while beating up her boyfriend for personal reasons?The father who doesn't tell her everything or anything about the Flash ? And the only thing Joe would have been able to tell her was that everyone in the Bank was acting strangely except for the Flash, who was helping people and saving their lives. That is all that is public knowledge. The situation in which Flash was affected is not public knowledge, so he wouldn't have been able to talk to her about that. 

 

All this is assuming that Joe and Eddie were willing to talk to her about the Flash because Joe have made it clear that he doesn't want Iris to have anything to do with the Flash, so I can't see him giving her any info that would encourage her to keep going after the Flash. Eddie has also done the same. 

[SevenStars]

There's a difference between Caitlin not noticing Barry's anger as being Prism-induced at first and Iris not.

Barry has certainly been angry without Prism influence before, Caitlin has seen him be angry. What Barry said under his influence to Caitlin is within the realm of normal behavior. It's in my book a fair point. Caitlin has been acting towards Barry with Ronnie in mind, both in the sense of "Ronnie got hurt and I don't want Barry to get hurt" and in the flirtation sense. 

When Flash went to confront Eddie, he was far, far more irrational and out of character than Barry had been with Caitlin. He was behaving far differently than the Flash had ever done. Iris explicitly noticed that and commented on it.

 

I think it speaks poorly of Iris that she would let this one out-of-character act would overshadow all the good Flash has done and not believe his explanation.

Fair point about Caitlin, because even I wanted to tell her to shut-up and stop mothering Barry so much in the name of Ronnie. 

 

Yes, the Flash was acting worst with Eddie, that's why Iris questioned his action. That's why she told him that this wasn't him, he wasn't like that, while he was beating her boyfriend. And his response to her doubting this was really him, was to tell her, remind her that she doesn't really know the Flash. All she knows about him is that he comes to see her and is flirty with her and tries to save her, and people. But she doesn't know him enough to determine how he would react if someone was coming after him.  People don't always act rationally when someone have decided to come after them and Iris doesn't know the Flash enough to know that this wouldn't be his reaction.

 

Iris knows the Flash that help people when they need help, she doesn't know the Flash that attack people when they are coming after him because she never had the opportunity to see that in action. 

 

Iris didn't let what she doesn't know was an out-of-character reaction ( she has to get to know him better for that) overshadow the good the Flash has done, because even at the end she didn't agree with Eddie going after the Flash, because she still saw him as good. But she could no longer argued that with Eddie after what the Flash had just done. But Iris probably feels guilty because she was the one who told the Flash about Eddie coming after him and the next thing she knows, he is ripping Eddie out of a car and violently beating him up to the point that if Arrow hadn't come, he might have killed Eddie. So she might think that she was a factor in what the Flash did to Eddie, especially since she hadn't seen him do that to anyone else and it happened after she gave him the news about Eddie coming after him. Therefore, thinking she created that situation, she removed herself from it.

Edited December 5, 2014 by SevenStars

[Chicago Redshirt]

On another topic:

 

The "I'm under the influence of something that makes me overact on repressed feelings" is a tried-and-true trope, whether it's the virus from Star Trek's "The Naked Time," the Asgardian rage stick from "Agents of SHIELD" or Red K from various "Smallville" eps or whatever. 

 

I hope in coming episodes that Barry tries to deal with the fallout from the things that enraged him that he still has to deal with on a week-in-week-out basis: Caitlin's mothering, Singh's harsh treatment of him, Joe's so-far inability to get justice for his father, Eddie both hunting him and hooking up with his woman, and Iris not knowing who the Flash really is. 

[phoenics]

It was in a way because CW only has so much to budget and to greenlight this they had to cancel some other shows. It was between The Tomorrow People, Beauty and the Beast and The 100 and The Tomorrow People "won". The Flash isn't cheap to make.

 

I wasn't so crazy about the second half once I realized that I wasn't going to get my Jastrid and they were just going to keep shoving Cara down my throat. Astrid and John were the fan favourites there and they really screwed the pooch on that one. They fully earned there cancellation and The Flash fully deserved its greenlight.

Totally off-topic - Jastrid took me completely by surprise - I really liked them. TPTB screwed up with that one.

Back on topic.

On another topic:

 

The "I'm under the influence of something that makes me overact on repressed feelings" is a tried-and-true trope, whether it's the virus from Star Trek's "The Naked Time," the Asgardian rage stick from "Agents of SHIELD" or Red K from various "Smallville" eps or whatever. 

 

I hope in coming episodes that Barry tries to deal with the fallout from the things that enraged him that he still has to deal with on a week-in-week-out basis: Caitlin's mothering, Singh's harsh treatment of him, Joe's so-far inability to get justice for his father, Eddie both hunting him and hooking up with his woman, and Iris not knowing who the Flash really is.

I agree about this - I actually would prefer it if Barry didn't just repress these feelings. I do hope he sets some boundaries for his job so his boss at least can't ride him like that. With Caitlin - I actually didn't think he was THAT far out of line because she has been transferring or projecting with him - the only bad thing was throwing her dead (not dead) fiancé in her face like that. But I do hope he calls her out for mothering him - what guy wants that?

The Eddie thing - well, he'd be better served trying to prove himself as a good hero who cares about people, etc.. No reason to try to convince Eddie.

With Iris - he should just tell her the truth - about EVERYTHING. Repressing it is going to make him nuts.

I think there was a lot of truth in what Barry said in his rage - but he needed to be angry with himself... he's got a serious case of "nice guy" syndrome - he needs to learn that you can be nice and still have boundaries. You can still be nice and be honest - with others - like Iris - and with yourself!

[Oscirus]

When Flash went to confront Eddie, he was far, far more irrational and out of character than Barry had been with Caitlin. He was behaving far differently than the Flash had ever done. Iris explicitly noticed that and commented on it.

 

I think it speaks poorly of Iris that she would let this one out-of-character act would overshadow all the good Flash has done and not believe his explanation.

 

Prism induced or not, Flash took something that Iris told him and used it as justification to hurt someone that she loves. I don't see any other way that she could've reacted. It would be one thing if it was just words.

 

Because Iris is the daughter of a cop; she herself wanted to become a cop.  And she's supposed to be intelligent, and I find it difficult to believe that she didn't hear or talk to her dad about what was going on with people who had been influenced by Prism.

 

 

So you think her dad who doesn't want her to know about other meta-humans is going to talk about the prism with her nearby?

 

What Barry said under his influence to Caitlin is within the realm of normal behavior. It's in my book a fair point

 



It's a fair point to throw her concern in her face by bringing up her dead fiancée?  I agree that she can be overbearing at times, but that was crossing a line. The fact that the show didn't address this after the fact with an apology from Barry or some similar acknowledgement is troubling.

 

 

The show this week was alright, but it seemed to put most of the stuff on hold just to hype up the fight. I mean they did advance the proper storylines but at the same time, the main storyline felt incomplete.  I will give the show points for the firestorm call out. ( You think Felicity's clothes got burned off just because the producer wanted to see her in a bra?}

 

I will NOT accept a Firestorm who's a bad guy.  Even a morally gray one won't sit right, actually.

 

 I have a feeling if anything, that Firestorm would be CW's next spinoff in a couple of years since as currently written he seems to be a combination of Barry and Oliver.