LeeshY

At the end of the episode, when talking to Red, she said "I know where all the bodies are buried, correction, were buried". I concluded all the driving scenes were her systematically going to different places and retrieving them, and the motel scenes provided the hint of what she was up to. There was a scene where she pulled out a power saw, so I assume one of the bodies was buried in the wall of room 8. I too had been frustrated with the show, but would check back in occasionally and do catch-up watching when I exhausted other options. These two episodes brought me back (for now...I must emphatically stress, all it will take is one halfway decent pilot for me to drop off again), I've always loved Mr Kaplan and agree - they should consider doing a 13 episode spin off of the younger Mr Kaplan, and perhaps the things she got up to post Annie's death. They could start from that day she was killed, and build from there. Anyway. I'm curious to see where they go from here, and yes, there were some inconsistencies with previous storylines (Tom was Red's doing yet I seem to recall he tried to kill her? If Red was her protector why did Tom turn? Meh.) but I'm happy to wipe slates clean and start from this point if it means the context will make for better episodes.

I've held back commenting because I wanted to see how this played out, as so much happened these last three episodes that both excited and frustrated me, so before getting all worked up I decided to wait to see where they were going with it all. So I'm going against general consensus again to say I liked this episode set up. I know this is a unpopular opinion but I have always liked Ray, mainly because he treated Felicity with both respect for her amazing brilliance but also as someone who you don't have to be all tortured to love. The writers did a great job synching their common characteristics (the "are they related" comments in both the Flash and from Oliver were genius). So I was totally on board when he showed up this episode to stop the plane, and weirdly got it when he basically gave the company to Felicity because let's face it, if he's going to be all super hero she's the only one qualified to run the place (speaking of which, do they have the budget for extras? There are never any workers around the place....) I knew there was an end game for Oliver in that he wasn't evil but needed to be in order to "save his city", and I totally agree the 'everyone dies' is another fake out. But it sets up the finale nicely so in some ways it was to be expected they'd pull this. I mean come on. Oliver truly evil? THAT's when I stop watching. I wish there was a way they could have kept both Tatsu and Maseo...they were far more interesting than Roy and Thea, even with Thea's transformation. Solid skills, a good backstory/relationship, and always in the know and sometimes a step ahead. I'm hoping they throw him in the healing pool and bring him back for S4. Diggle. I didn't mind the anger, natch, it sorta had to happen. But I love the focus on how much this friendship has grown which that highlighted. Just, Diggle love...yay! I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but this episode just underlined for me that I love the show crossover. This way all the characters can still be themselves just in different situations. Felicity getting Palmer Technologies opens up a whole host of storylines for next season, and people popping in and out keeps it fresh. So yeah, I'm onboard with that. And since I seem to be a lonely Ray fan, bring on the Atom! Just adds more to the different layers they can play with! I'm hoping with the (what we think is a) fake out they Oliver and Team Arrow prevail, and he ends up still running the League of Assassins, but for S4 it's more to support threats across the cities and dealing with old conflicts (for instance, an old LoA foe who doesn't care they're on the side of good now). Endless possibilities! So Die! Survive! We're used to it. Finally, given this episode was blissfully lacking emphasis on the Oliver/Felicity love story I am hoping this means it will eventually fizzle and die. Never been onboard with that and maybe now Felicity can say to Oliver "sorry....I have too much responsibility and am too important to lose myself to this messed up relationship if you want me to always have your back as the Arrow and run this company" instead of him leaving her hanging because it's for the best. Bring on the finale, let's see how they close this out and set up next season!

OK, I'm a little confused about all the Ray Palmer hate happening. Let's take a step back....Oliver was on a boat cheating on Laurel with Sara, got stuck on an island thinking Sara had died, fell in love with Shado, who died. Then came back, had many many smoldering looks and whatnot with Laurel again, then that didn't work, then Sara's back so he's deeply DEEPLY in love with her AGAIN (and let's not forget the little side trip of sleeping with Isabel folks), then Sara dies AGAIN and suddenly I'm supposed to accept he's now totally in love with Felicity and has been all along? Sara hasn't been dead THAT long for him to suddenly be all....oh, Felicity, I do love you, I hadn't recognised until now. Felicity's been in love with him for yonks so I stand up and APPLAUD her finally getting over Oliver and finding love. So I am truly, utterly perplexed at this outpouring of saying nay to Ray (yeah...I wrote that). Oh! Oh! And who the heck was that random woman he ran into when on The Flash? At the coffee shop? Anyway....TV suspension of reality aside, I don't want Oliver with Felicity. I've liked Ray from the start and he's been into her from jump...no hesitation, no minced words...no LOVE AFFAIRS WITH THREE OTHER PEOPLE before finally "seeing the light". He gave her the respect and attention she so deserved and sorry (not sorry) but there is chemistry there. The writers got an A from me on that front. "'Bout damn time" is what I yelled when they finally hooked up. And adding a little real life, every relationship has those initial bumps when trust can be tested, but the writers aren't trying to make him the bad guy. He recognised his mistake and apologised (and a little side rant, Felicity should have sat him down, and TOLD HIM EVERYTHING instead of high level summaries which left him to draw his own conclusions rather easily, but that's "TV drama"for you). And frankly, I don't see why this is HIS fault. Felicity also didn't tell Oliver about Ray wanting to save the city. Seems like the theme of not talking continues, as if Ray knew Oliver's quest from the beginning and vice versa, this whole episode could have centered on Diggle and Lyla and their Suicide Squad, which I immensely enjoyed ("I take it back....I want to die"). So no, I will not jump on the Ray Palmer hatred bandwagon. He's does one thing wrong (I can't think of another thing he's done other than be clueless to what is going on) and it's to the wolves he goes, whereas Oliver's been stringing Felicity along for THREE SEASONS and suddenly I'm supposed to support his turn of heart? No I say. I still love Oliver, Oliver with tight pants on, Oliver shirtless, Oliver being all sexy sword swiping...but that doesn't mean I think he deserves Felicity. She deserves to be with someone who loved her from jump, and I for one hope that the writers make them a true force. Maybe that random woman from The Flash coffee shop will be explained and Oliver will have yet another little trip down love's lane and leave Felicity to enjoy hers.

I have to admit, they've won me over. Initially Barry's character annoyed me, and Iris made me want to yell GO AWAY every time she appeared. But this episode, yeah, OK, I'm in. At the beginning at the bowling alley I have to give Gustin and Patton credit as they really really sold being obnoxious and oblivious to their significant others and my normal annoyance started taking hold. I was cursing the writers that they weren't giving up on getting these two together because frankly, no. There is no chemistry with those two romantically. I agree it feels forced and unnatural instead of the unrequited love now being acknowledged - Barry as a love interest felt more believable (and made me sorta look at Gustin as someone who actually can have sex versus a whiny teenager) with Felicity, Linda, hell, even when he was carrying Caitlin away from the nuclear explosion there was more intimacy...I mean...... ....sorry....slight tangent there. Anyway, as it progressed and Cisco delved deeper the Barry/Iris couple hatred gave way to the sheer love I have for Cisco's character and TOM CAVANAGH Y'ALL. Valdes just nails it and Cavanagh, despite being evil, makes me want to be his forgiver. Despite knowing there is no way they can kill Cisco off without facing viewer wrath (the only acceptable reason is for Valdes to be in many many Marvel or DC Comic movies), the moment Wells did it I still did a little wail of nooooooo. And that's when I realised against my will they sucked me in with their plot trickery. Between Victor Garber & Stephen Amell's appearances (LOVE!) and this episode, I'm in. I am still wholly and completely against Barry/Iris together forever (for the love of all that is holy - just let them be like brother and sister...it just WORKS BETTER), and I'll still occasionally let slip a GO AWAY when Iris starts in with her irritation tactics, but nicely done writers.

Can I just say SO AGREE on Flynn's character traits. It's like Warehouse 13 reincarnated and being led by Doctor Who. The scene in the first episode where he has to choose a door and does the last second tick/change all I thought was "do they think no one in the US watches British TV shows?" And the whole Cassandra mind thing reminds me of Gary from Alphas. And hello? Warehouse 13. I like the series in a Buffy/Angel/Leverage/Hawaii 5-0 sort of fun fluff way, so don't mind Flynn popping up here and there, but I can tell I'm going to get annoyed if they keep pulling copycat moves from shows that are either still on the air or too recent memories.

OMG, yes. Brilliant solution. <giggle> That lair/cave is a true case of suspend all logic and reality. Was thinking back to when Felicity's mother was visiting, and how they came through the club on their way to the lair. But then also remembered earlier this season Thea trying to get into a door which had a keypad and complaining she could never get it open. Either way, it's a cast of thousands trooping in and out of that place, the idea that no one notices is absurd. And that's hilarious. Completely agree with the general sentiment here, this was a really fun episode. I'm not yet a Barry fan but he was much much more tolerable here, especially when he started off as preachy on the torture thing, but after Lyla got taken down, shut up pretty quick when he realized there was some truth to what Oliver was saying and let him get on with it. And I know it's a small thing, but when Cisco improved Olivers suit, commenting on the sentimental value of the hood raised by Felicity, and the look Oliver gives her and her modest head turn - yeah I'm not a fan of those two together but great acting on all parts, it was a really sweet scene. As an aside, I'm sure The Flash will get picked up for another season, but these crossover episodes makes for easy character continuation in case it doesn't. Just as the League of Assassin folks pop in and out, Barry, Caitlin and Cisco can as well for a few episodes scattered throughout the season. Barry even has a uniform 'hotdesk' for his visits now, which, awww. There is just so much chemistry between the two teams. Oh, and I think they've replaced Oliver going shirtless with Oliver smiling. It's like his smile is his bare chest's secret identity and one cannot be seen the same time as the other.

Totally agree with Monty's comments. We can discuss and dissect this show for days with all the great action and fight scenes and relationship chemistry yet it's still moving at a snail's pace. It definitely needs more independence from the movie big brother. At this point I'm hoping they get transported like Jane Foster in The Dark World to an alternate universe and deal with all the alien issues, well, with the aliens. Enough with everything and everyone coming to Earth and buried cities and what not. Flip the script! Have them discover some new things off planet and bring them back or (shock horror) set up some operations where people are based and they can flip like Fringe between the two universes and who knows, maybe there'll be enough to make their OWN movie. I mean, they flipped Skye's character - she's all bad ass slo mo flipping off walls now, getting beat up land shaking it off like she stubbed a toe, and her walking towards the display like she owned the place and presenting the intel was hilarious - like "check out my 180 people, I am ON POINT". Surely they can do the same to, y'know, the show?

I'm trying to like Barry but he still continues to annoy me with his attitude, and I'm sorry to say Iris is just grating. I just want to yell "shut UP already, we get it, you're breathless with his existence!" I just want her to be less one note. It's like a broken record with that girl. Is there anyway she can become a metahuman herself? Cisco and Caitlin for me make the show right now, I look forward to their scenes. It would be interesting to see some more backstory on Cisco as we did for Caitlin. It was nice to see Oliver banter with a bit of comedy and as always I love love love Felicity and Diggle made me giggle (I know, <>). Barry, he just doesn't learn from any of his experiences. There isn't any growth, if anything he's becoming more belligerent. With Arrow, Oliver evolved even in season one, and the team learned to listen to each other and it was evident in each episode. I know it's season one, but there isn't any evidence of Barry evolving or becoming even a little humble about what he's become. He's flat out ignoring what the advice he's getting, even though when he does things his own way they rarely go well. I don't find myself cheering for him, it's become a little dull. Even after Oliver told him to back off Iris, the only reason it happened was because she told him to stop contacting her, and I'm not looking forward to this eventual scenes of him trying to change her mind, and her coming back around. Sigh, snooze. I It would have been interesting for him to just disappear for a bit, using the fact he was affected so badly by Chroma as a sign he still has a lot of learning to do and he's better off for now and just letting her be angry and be won over eventually simply by him getting better as The Flash. But the 'let me explain...' gah! Anyway. "When did we get facial recognition software" just great writing and ever better delivery evidenced with even the smallest dialogue between the characters. And OK - super stupid comment, but what the HELL is going on with Stephen Amell's eye makeup? For some reason this season it looks like he's got this guy liner thing a la Hook on OUAT and it's distracting! I actually watched an earlier episode just to see if I'm going crazy, and there is definitely a difference. It's like he's shadier. But maybe that's the point. Robbie Amell! Yeeessss! I was one of the crazies that liked the Tomorrow People and was sad it didn't get a second season chance. So happy to see he's landed here.

Could not have said it better. There was something about Thea, even when running her own club and being lied to by pretty much everyone, I couldn't get behind her character or drum up the sympathy I guess we were supposed to have. Well done writers for giving her some backbone and confidence that is hers. Even if she ends up turning dark, she's transitioning into the bad ass that Sara, Felicity and pretty much every female from the League of Assassins demonstrate in their own way. I like her warped but weirdly wonderful relationship with Malcolm, and hey, if he can bring out that kind of transformation by simply throwing reality in her face (which technically is something Oliver maybe should have done) then all the better. And hey - there is your story arc for why she decides to turn on Oliver - Malcolm trusted her more than pretty much anyone in her family. Even if he is a psychotic mass murder.... Laurel on the other hand, it just isn't getting better. No matter how much they try to make her seem stronger her bad ass is more butt hurt and they need to just have her tell her father, break his heart, not handle being shunned by him, then skip off with her sister's ex to be trained far far away (for at least a season) then come back and maybe....MAYBE...be a bit more believable when it comes to being a strong kick ass character and possible Team Arrow member. I have to say it - I did sorta have a small "ha, called it!" moment when Roy's little dream thing happened. Even if it turns out to be a red-herring, it a smart move by the writing team as no one expects (or believes) it and creates all sorts of possibilities (and episodes) on building the backstory. I really enjoyed this episode, not only because of the backstory on Felicity (which she richly deserved) but to show her having a passionate, sexy, and obsessive-in-a-sweet-college-way relationship with a guy (we've all been there). It was well written; she was in confident control and not the soupy crushing on Oliver girl she's sometimes portrayed. I've liked Felicity's character and have felt they were doing her a small disservice, so it was refreshing to see her in a different light, getting flirty interest from people other than Oliver, showing how much power she can wield. I'm ready for HER to become super bad ass, with Oliver playing the soupy crushing on Felicity role. I am also hoping Ray Palmer stays on the side of good, at least for now, as he's perfect for Felicity's love interest. She and Oliver never quite gel as a romance for me, it's like watching second cousins trying to convince themselves it's OK. With Barry it would be too obvious. But with Ray, come on...that couple would be a force and frankly the triangle they could spin with Oliver is easy writing. The stronger their relationship becomes the more she pulls away from standard and comes into her own, and when Ray finally does leave (or turns evil and gets killed or disappears..yada yada...) the company is given to Felicity. Suddenly Oliver needs her not just because she's the brains of the operation, but because, well, she really can keep the lights on. (speaking of which he can afford a lair and all these toys and a cell phone plan but can't afford his own flat? Reality suspended, but at some point explanation needed). As a side note the whole Hong Kong flashback is boring. Either ramp it up with some interesting tie in or let it go and try a non-Oliver centric flashback. Like maybe Thea's transition and building of her relationship with Malcolm.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm late to the game here, but I immediately thought it was Roy that took out Sara. Mainly because despite him being all team spirit, I wasn't getting the warm fuzzy "we're all about Oliver and the Arrow" worship that we get from Felicity and Diggle. Fetching new maroon uniform and arrow back bundle aside, he was rather cold and broody and let's face it, Sara returning means his patrolling and partnering days would be numbered, as her status as bad ass ex would make his contribution redundant. If that's where they're going - then good job writers I say. Sure, Sara's demise sucks but seriously, it's a twist no one would expect and the entire build up can be stretched for the entire season. "Who killed Sara?" The reveal of Roy has the WHOA surprise factor. Just like Slade started as a friend/teacher and ended as a hideous orange and black foe, Roy starts as a innocent/student and ends as a hideous maroon man scorned, looking to prove himself by any means necessary. Again, I'm late to the comment game but Sara's death wasn't too surprising given Laurel could take up the mask and then search for her sister's killer. They need something to avenge/focus on this season, and the Q Consolidated arc would get too boring too quick as a main focus. At least for 23 episodes. Food for thought.