Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[FurryFury]

[smallville] Arrow, The Flash, and Supernatural are the only shows I watch on TheCW.  They are the only ones that would even remotely interest me, just going by what I know of the rest and have 'heard' about them.

 

TBH, you're actually very wrong about The CW right now. It's got loads better since the days of Gossip Girl. And The Flash is probably the most formulaic show on the network at this point (granted, I don't watch everything, so I may be wrong).

 

The 100 is the best CW show hands-down. I was bogged by the teenage drama in season one, true (network influence most likely), but it has managed to find its feet since then. Season 2 has been honestly phenomenal and very brave in some of its storytelling. No formula there.

 

iZombie does have some of the issues plaguing superhero shows (like the clueless love interest), but it's presented in a much darker and more interesting way. Also, it's Rob Thomas, so it has some awesome snappy dialogue and quite a bit of humor. 

 

Jane The Virgin is honestly very fun, if you're into affectionate parodies of telenovelas. I've dropped it because this type of thing can become tiring after a while (they really should have stuck to 13-episodes seasons there), but I can easily say it's a good show.

 

And I'm really pumped about Legends of Tomorrow, too. I think the network is trying to become better, overall. And the stupid romantic cliches in Flarrow aren't the fault of The CW producers - it's the writers who can't get over them. But even Berlanti seems to have toned it down, judging by the Supergirl pilot (it had way less romance than either Flash or Arrow pilots, IIRC).

[ruby24]

Well, if Supergirl has less of it, than that does make me think it must be a CW demand for love triangles or relationship drama. Unfortunately, I  don't think that's the kind of thing this team does best.

Edited May 25, 2015 by ruby24

[FurryFury]

I think it's more likely that 1) Supergirl doesn't have an established well-known pairing in the comics a la Oliver Queen/Dinah Lance, or Barry Allen/Iris West (well, personally, I've never heard about Iris West before this show but people seem to be in agreement about it) and 2) Berlanti and co have seen the reactions to pushing the OTP from the get-go too hard and decided to ease into it this time. That said, it was pretty clear who's the main love interest for Kara simply based on the pilot, yet it was wasn't as annoyingly forced as on The Flash and Arrow.

Edited May 25, 2015 by FurryFury

[Trini]

[Victor Garber] Shares Spinoff Details, Confirms 'Flash' Return
 

"Robbie and I will be joined on the first episode of the [next] season of The Flash, and then we'll see what happens," Garber said....

 

So can we assume that Season 2 starts off right where Season one ended? It'd be really easy (and predictable) for them to start off "3 months later..."

[ruby24]

My only question about that is, don't Flash and Arrow have to be on the same timeline for the crossovers? If it does pick up right there, there's probably going to be a time jump during the premiere. Or at least at the end of it. Because we know Arrow's doing the thing it always does where 5 months have passed.

[Sakura12]

They can always have the premiere be right after the finale, then the next episode picks up 5 months later. 

[Trini]

New Season 2 love interest for Barry

 

First off, in my fantasy DC universe, Barry and Felicity would already be a couple.  ;-)

 

Actually, I was expecting another love interest for Barry to show up at some point anyway, since the Flash (the various versions) has had several in the comics. I thought it would be Patty Spivot, though. ...Although the description sounds just like that character.... Maybe "Wendy" is just a casting codename?

 

I'm not worried about Barry and Iris, though. Not my first TV romance rodeo.

[Sakura12]

Oh, I don't think WestAllen fans should be worried. It's just annoying to have sit through this "lets keep the couple apart for as long as possible" crap, again. 

[calliope1975]

Seems like another unnecessary ship stall. I don't think Barry and Iris are ready to get together, but I don't need to watch another relationship destined to fail either. How about just introducing another female character who's not a love interest. Or, crazy idea, focus on fleshing out the characters you already have.

[statsgirl]

Ugh. One of the things I hate the most is when they keep throwing in new characters as love interests to stall the ships. Just put them together and be done with it.

 

Not to mention, they've already lost me on the WestAllen front. I think I'll always prefer Iris's relationship with Eddie to what she could have with Barry.

[Trini]

Okay, so stop trying to clone Felicity. Yes, she's great, but isn't that role already handled by Caitlyn(smarts) and Cisco(humor) and Iris(love interest)?

[ruby24]

Wonderful- my first fear after the finale realized in episode 2 of the new season! God, I HATE love triangles.

 

Do we have to have another doomed to fail love triangle? Seriously, what's the point? I wouldn't be surprised if she's actually Patty Spivot (although Patty wasn't a cop), but even if she is, who cares?

 

Is this because Barry has to have a serious relationship before getting together with Iris? First of all, why does he have to have that, and second of all, unless they're going to immediately clue this person in on his identity too, how serious can she be? Because Barry can't actually sleep with anyone without them finding out who he is, right? (There was a reason Linda only lasted two episodes). So is she going to be brought into the team and everything so that she and Barry can be a legitimate item?

 

This sounds like a shitty idea.

[apinknightmare]

Perhaps this character is a love interest in a different timeline? 

[Xander]

This might force them to develop Iris outside of her being Barry's love interest. It could be a good thing. 

[ruby24]

Couldn't they do that without giving Barry another one though? Isn't Eddie's death enough of a roadblock to them being together for the moment, or does everyone always have to have an extraneous love interest?

[FurryFury]

Sounds awful. How many times are they going to create a Felicity-like character just because it worked once? Caitlyn's been turned into Felicity-lite, Ray on Arrow was, by many accounts (didn't see him much) "male Felicity" and hell, Barry himself has a lot of these traits. 

 

If they wanted to create a LI for Barry, they should have gone for a completely different archetype, imho. Somebody more badass and maybe even rougher around the edges. Just to make the dynamic feel fresher. 

 

And really, so over romantic angst on Flarrow shows. God I hope LOT will be free of that, for the most part. That's the only show I care about at this point.

[tarotx]

Badass, Rougher around the edges would be Felicity and Oliver reversed. I also think they will do it with Ray and whichever girl he clicks with in LOT since Sara's a badass with angst and Hawkgirl is going to turn badass when angry.

Barry and Iris are the only LI that is diffetent so far.

Edited June 10, 2015 by tarotx

[ruby24]

Also, this is like the most predictable thing they could have possibly done- give Barry a major new love interest now so that Iris can spend the season pining for him, instead of the other way around.

 

I saw that coming the second Eddie died, but I didn't think it would happen that fast- I thought whoever the pointless gf was would show up halfway through the season, not episode 2. Either that means her run will be over with fairly quickly (which is Linda all over again, so I doubt it), or this girl sticks around ALL year, like Ray on Arrow. Since for this part of the show, it seems like everything I don't want to happen happens, I have to assume it's going to be the latter. Which sucks.

[wingster55]

It could be just as serious as Linda...who knows.

[ruby24]

Not with my luck. We're probably in for another Ray.

[FurryFury]

Badass, Rougher around the edges would be Felicity and Oliver reversed. I also think they will do it with Ray and whichever girl he clicks with in LOT since Sara's a badass with angst and Hawkgirl is going to turn badass when angry.

Barry and Iris are the only LI that is diffetent so far.

No, I didn't mean like Oliver at all. More like somebody with an attitude, I don't think Oliver ever had much of it. As for being badass, that should be a given, as the two women on the show already cover the science stuff and the investigation stuff... Which would mean we'll get Caitlyn, Cisco AND the new girl as "brainy" characters - are they going to dumb Barry down even further? Or will Caitlyn continue to not know what a singularity is?

Edited June 10, 2015 by FurryFury

[Trini]

 

I saw that coming the second Eddie died, but I didn't think it would happen that fast- I thought whoever the pointless gf was would show up halfway through the season, not episode 2.

 

I know, right? And we know they suck at romances, so why are they attempting this and so soon??

 

...  or this girl sticks around ALL year, like Ray on Arrow. ...

 

Crap... she could be Eddie's "replacement" AKA someone for Barry to interact with at work. You know, if they remember that he's supposed to be a CSI.

[bettername2come]

I hate acting like a couple is meant to be and then throwing in unnecessary love interests just to delay it. Don't waste my time.

[Trini]

Yeah, like ruby24 said, Barry and Iris have legit reasons not to be together for a while.

[ruby24]

I hate acting like a couple is meant to be and then throwing in unnecessary love interests just to delay it. Don't waste my time.

Well said! I'm pretty much at the point now where I DESPISE love triangles more than anything else. I can take other obstacles meant to keep people apart if they don't want to put them together just yet, but useless and obviously doomed "other love interests" are the worst. It's never believable, it's never worth investing in, the whole thing always feels meaningless because you know it's going nowhere.

 

I can take anything else, kidnapping, trauma, injuries...there's other ways to delay things if that's the goal. I said I'd give them credit if they want to keep Barry/Iris apart as long as it was not another love triangle they used to do it, and they basically jumped so fast to another one it's like they couldn't think of any other way to tell a story. Lame.

[Artsda]

Felicity being such a hit has made Laurel pointless basically, surprised they do this and possibly create such a fan favorite character instead of trying to build on Iris more. This will just make Iris less of a character. 

[ruby24]

If they're actively trying to recreate Felicity I'd be surprised if they succeeded. Won't she just come across as a poor man's Felicity? I guess they could really nail the casting for it, but I'd be shocked if they actually managed to introduce a character as popular as Felicity, while trying to imitate her.

 

I was wondering if this character might be Patty Spivot, and Wendy is a code name. If that's the case, Patty from the comics really is a lot like Felicity (although of course she was first), and maybe that's the reason they described her that way on the call sheet.

Edited June 11, 2015 by ruby24

[Starfish35]

That could be, actually. I think they called Sara Lance "Lisa" when they did the casting call for her. And Ray Palmer was "Daniel", I believe.

[ruby24]

Oh, well that settles it then. This is totally Patty Spivot. And that means she's being cast as Barry's love interest for Season 2, so yeah...she's probably going to be there all year long, just like Ray and Sara were. Looks like they're following the new 52 series.

Edited June 11, 2015 by ruby24

[CabotCove]

She better be staying a season long, otherwise I dont see the point. Hated what they did with Linda, they couldnt make it obvious it was a stalling tactic and a throwaway romance .

 

Yeah I hope this character Wendy or Patty is treated better too, than how  Arrow treats its Olicity stalls: Ray and Sara.  Even if it (Barry/Wendy) will be a stalling romance, its should have a purpose and be treated like it matters, otherwise its a waste of space and time on the show Imo.  @calliope1975 Yeah definately thought WestAllen were ready for a romance in season 2 but hey this is AK/GB (MG for Arrow) , they love their formulas. They probably still cling on to that  "Moonlight Curse" crap. 

 

They have made a mess of this whole thing really, if they knew they wanted to do this Wendy character in season 2, (who might be Patty) then they shouldn't have given such focus to Barry/Felicity,  now its like they are just making a repetitive relationship and character. Or they could just have continued to use Felicity in this role via crossovers, and no need for "Wendy". Then there is the whole Caitlin issue, who somewhat falls in a  similar role/archetype but at least she has other things that set her apart like being married now and might end up being a villain. 

Edited June 11, 2015 by Conell

[ruby24]

Yeah, I think this probably squashes any potential Barry/Caitlin thing, although I honestly don't know if they were ever really going to do that- I think they were just kind of going all over the place this season with him to see if anything worked (besides Iris).

 

Now they're probably doing the new 52 storyline, or something close to it, where Barry and Patty are dating in a new timeline and Iris is in secretly in love with him. It's funny though, because that series is the first one where Barry and Patty were ever even a couple, since before she had always been a minor character that Barry never reciprocated feelings for, because of Iris. So they basically seized on the one non-Iris girlfriend they could find for him in the comics, which happens to be a really new storyline, just so they can justify giving him a serious other love interest before he finally gets together with Iris.

 

I still think this is unnecessary, but my suspicion is the writers don't want Iris to be the only girl Barry ever has on the show, so they figure they've got to give him something that lasts longer than Linda, who was tossed aside immediately, or Felicity, which never really went anywhere either. So expect Patty to be around a while, probably all year long.

 

I don't quite understand why he HAS to be with someone else before Iris- I mean if he loves her so much, is it really a big deal if she ends up being the only one? I get the feeling they think it makes him seem weak/pathetic or something to not have some other girl, and that it's Iris' "turn" now to pine for him for a while.

[FurryFury]

Yeah, like ruby24 said, Barry and Iris have legit reasons not to be together for a while.

So did Oliver and Felicity in season 3 after season 2, imho, but they've made them go on a date in the premiere and then saddled her with Ray.

 

I don't quite understand why he HAS to be with someone else before Iris- I mean if he loves her so much, is it really a big deal if she ends up being the only one? I get the feeling they think it makes him seem weak/pathetic or something to not have some other girl, and that it's Iris' "turn" now to pine for him for a while.

 

Because he's the male lead and he has to have lots of different girlfriends.  Doesn't matter he's not a playboy or anything. This is their modus operandi. Male viewers have to live vicariously through him!

[ruby24]

I know you're right and that's why they're doing this- I just think that's such an obvious male point of view (from the writers), and there's no real reason it HAS to happen like that. It'd be nice to see something different.

[Oscirus]

So the writer's way of fixing the divisive situation they have with Iris is to bring a love interest for Barry who apparently resembles Felicity into the mix. Normally I would be bothered, but by now I'm used to the laziness on these writer's part.

 

Also, can we please give the love interests on this show occupations of their own?

[Xander]

Barry hasn't had lots of girlfriends. He only had Linda and it barely lasted a minute.

[Sakura12]

Barry hasn't had lots of girlfriends. He only had Linda and it barely lasted a minute.

 

They weren't saying that Barry had lots of girlfriends, they are saying he's the male lead and HAS to have lots of girlfriends. Meaning they will keep giving Barry  girlfriends to stall the destined couple (until everyone stops caring, then they will put them together). 

 

Barry doesn't need a love interest, this show doesn't need more throwaway characters. They need to start building on the characters they have.

[Xander]

After the finale, I wondered if they still expected us to root for Iris and Barry and perhaps the answer is not for a while. Iris didn't want to be with Barry and will soon be in mourning. Almost all shows have an element of romance and if Iris/Barry is being shelved for a while, then I think it's fine for Barry to have a love interest he works with. Then they wouldn't have her randomly popping into the station for love triangle things. I'm fine with this as long as it doesn't become a love triangle. 

[quarks]

I don't think this new character squashes a potential Barry/Caitlin thing - Oliver sleeping with Isabel and Sara in the second season didn't squash Oliver/Felicity, after all, who were sorta in the same position in the first season (i.e., not the comic canon/original love interest.) 

 

I think it's more that the finale put a temporary block to both ships - Barry/Iris because of Eddie's death and Barry's acknowledgement that in this timeline, Iris fell in love with Eddie, not him, and Barry/Caitlin because Caitlin married someone else.  Thus this new love interest.

[Iamsweetdee]

I don't think this new character squashes a potential Barry/Caitlin thing...

Isn't the fact that Caitlin is married enough to squash that nonsense? Why is this continuing? Also, fuck Oliver. 

[quarks]

Isn't the fact that Caitlin is married enough to squash that nonsense? Why is this continuing? Also, fuck Oliver. 

 

Since Ronnie has not been announced as a regular on either Flash or Legends, I'd say no.  For that matter, isn't the fact that Iris chose Eddie in the finale - after finding out Barry's secret and Barry's feelings for her, enough to squash Barry/Iris? 

 

With that said, and to be absolutely clear here, I'm good with either a Barry/Iris or a Barry/Caitlin pairing.  Bolded, because generally whenever I've pointed out that the show might not stick with the destined comic pairing, I've been accused of being against Barry/Iris. I'm not. I like them. I am, however, against any arguments that either pairing is squashed - the finale had several indications that the show could still go either way or neither way. Iris choosing Eddie isn't enough to squash that pairing; Caitlin's marriage isn't enough to squash that pairing.  Iris' choice does, however, mean that the show can't put Barry/Iris together immediately, and Caitlin's marriage is enough to keep the show from using her as a ship stall for Barry/Iris in the second season. Thus, the new love interest for Barry. 

[Velocity23]

 

I’m dying for some Arrow or Flash scoop! –Matthew

Arrow is seeking an Iris West type… No, just kidding. (Too soon?) The Flash, however – in addition to Wendy – is casting the season-long role of a classically handsome, square-jawed hero in his 30s to early 40s, a slightly cynical man “with an edge.” The casting call lists the character as “John Clark,” which is obviously fake/a nod to the DC Comics letterer. Though I must wonder if one of Clark’s works hints at the character being introduced….

http://tvline.com/2015/06/11/the-flash-season-2-spoilers-cynical-new-hero/

[ruby24]

Since Ronnie has not been announced as a regular on either Flash or Legends, I'd say no.  For that matter, isn't the fact that Iris chose Eddie in the finale - after finding out Barry's secret and Barry's feelings for her, enough to squash Barry/Iris? 

 

With that said, and to be absolutely clear here, I'm good with either a Barry/Iris or a Barry/Caitlin pairing.  Bolded, because generally whenever I've pointed out that the show might not stick with the destined comic pairing, I've been accused of being against Barry/Iris. I'm not. I like them. I am, however, against any arguments that either pairing is squashed - the finale had several indications that the show could still go either way or neither way. Iris choosing Eddie isn't enough to squash that pairing; Caitlin's marriage isn't enough to squash that pairing.  Iris' choice does, however, mean that the show can't put Barry/Iris together immediately, and Caitlin's marriage is enough to keep the show from using her as a ship stall for Barry/Iris in the second season. Thus, the new love interest for Barry. 

Yeah, but just that- the fact that this an obvious "ship stall" love interest is SO annoying. It's pointless. Frankly, Eddie was pointless the entire last season too until his sacrifice in the last episode.

 

Why do other love interests have to be used to keep them apart? There's all kinds of other things they could do instead. And to have to sit through it for a couple eps is one thing, but if this is Patty, and I'm sure it is, it's going to be an all season long situation, with a lot of time spent on it. A huge waste of a lot of time that they could spend on the characters they already have.

Edited June 11, 2015 by ruby24

[Xander]

What's so awful about Barry having another romance as long as there's no love triangle? 

[ruby24]

How it can it not be a love triangle if it's meant to stall him and Iris? You know they're going to use this to have her be jealous and pining for him this season, instead of the other way around.

Edited June 11, 2015 by ruby24

[quarks]

Yeah, but just that- the fact that this an obvious "ship stall" love interest is SO annoying. It's pointless. Frankly, Eddie was pointless the entire last season too until his sacrifice in the last episode.

 

 

This criticism I get. Though to be fair, the last two ship stalls over on Arrow ended up headlining their own show, so they eventually had another point. 

[ruby24]

Yeah, I guess...but frankly I could have watched CL as Canary in S2 without her hooking up with Oliver (she still would have been cool), and Ray as the Atom also could have been there without getting together with Felicity. Both of those were stalls to O/F, and it was incredibly obvious.

 

Patty is a comics character (although a minor one) but she's not a hero or anything, so it actually is kind of hard to see what point she would serve other than being Barry's love interest and Iris-stall, tbh.

[catrice2]

Even though I expected it, I am sad that they decided to go this route. I probably would have understood developing the Linda thing more, or even if episode 15 never happened.  I wonder if there is some other on set reason why they are not trying to put Barry and Iris together? At first I thought there was no chemistry, but they were actually able to prove me wrong there, and then I was ok with a "side of romance," to interrupt my action scenes. Then they just made it an annoying distraction, now it is going to be even more of a turn off.  

 

Are writers incapable of developing a romance between two people without having them fight with each other, betray each other, ignore each other or go off and sleep with 1/2 the town (Oliver) before realizing they are "meant" to be? 

 

They need to focus on showing Barry maturing as a man before he can be with any woman! 

[Trini]

I’m dying for some Arrow or Flash scoop! –Matthew

Arrow is seeking an Iris West type… No, just kidding. (Too soon?) The Flash, however – in addition to Wendy – is casting the season-long role of a classically handsome, square-jawed hero in his 30s to early 40s, a slightly cynical man “with an edge.” The casting call lists the character as “John Clark,” which is obviously fake/a nod to the DC Comics letterer. Though I must wonder if one of Clark’s works hints at the character being introduced….

 

http://tvline.com/2015/06/11/the-flash-season-2-spoilers-cynical-new-hero/

 

People more knowledgeable about the comics; a little help. Could this be for Jay Garrick? Although the description is general enough to be almost anybody.

[ruby24]

What's so awful about Barry having another romance as long as there's no love triangle? 

The other thing about it not being a triangle is that would mean they're dropping Barry/Iris altogether, basically the way they did Oliver/Laurel after S1- that's a little hard for me to believe would happen on this show though. I think they did that on Arrow because they saw (in Season 1 even) that Felicity was a better character that they'd rather put him with instead, and here I don't think they have that option.

 

Not yet anyway. Maybe that's what they're trying to create with Patty Spivot, but I think dropping B/I after spending SO much time on it last year would be kinda lame. There was never any payoff, unless you count what happened in 1x15, which was immediately taken away.

[SonofaBiscuit]

This seems like a fairly terrible idea.  What happens if the show manages to cast a woman that GG has insane chemistry with (I'm actually not counting on that, btw), and then a sizable, vocal portion of the audience starts shipping Barry/Wendy?  Why do these guys make things harder on themselves by pulling stunts like this?  If Wendy is like Linda, fine.  Barry/Wendy date a while, and then she leaves.  But if they completely luck into the right casting, it's going to be a mess when the show tries to put Barry/Iris back together.