S04.E07: Test Of Strength

[Brattinella]

WOW that was really Evan singing??  Damn, he did GREAT!!!!

[Dancingjaneway]

My dream for this show is that Ethel and Desiree and Amazon Eve team up and kick the crap out of Dandy, Dell, Maggie, Stanley and Pennys father. Then they become famous and live a wonderful life while Elsa has to sit and watch and be fucking miserable. 

[shesajar]

Is Del that stupid? His first choice in targets is arguably the one who would be most capable of defending herself. Not to mention what a pain in the ass it would be to haul her dead body a few miles due west to the barn. Ma Petit or Pepper would have been the obvious choices, but it still takes him two failed attempts on others to figure that out?

[yourstruly]

 

The way she reached up to him so trusting, just like the beautiful little princess she was, so filled with love and light. She was precious and beautiful...to kill her would be the same as killing a delicate butterfly, totally defenseless and helpless.

This description of her seems a little...infantilizing and dehumanizing IMHO. She's an adult human being-just a remarkably small one.

 

This is sort of the fault of the show anyway-it would have been more interesting and upended the viewer's reactions to her ("Oh, look at her-she's so cute!") if they had had her be chain smoking and foul mouthed when she was off stage or something. But instead they sort of went the easy route with her.

 

I wasn't that torn up about her death-it made sense-she was the most defenseless so of course they would go after her.

 

On another note, have any of you been to the Mutter Museum in Philadelphia (clearly the inspiration for the museum of oddities in the show)? It's pretty queasily fascinating and I have never seen so many metalheads and goths in daylight in my life.

http://muttermuseum.org/

[Brattinella]

 

The way she reached up to him so trusting, just like the beautiful little princess she was, so filled with love and light. She was precious and beautiful...to kill her would be the same as killing a delicate butterfly, totally defenseless and helpless.

 

This is exactly the way I feel.  Why turn her into a chain-smoking slob to make her more interesting?

[Dancingjaneway]

I'd like to add that the woman running the "museum" where Ma Petites body is she also deserves to get her ass kicked. I'm not really looking forward to Doris' daughter showing up I feel like it's just going to weigh the show down. I feel like they are going to drag that out and it's not going to have a surprising outcome. This season is taking too long to get off the ground and I think that's because there i just too much going on. Ryan Murphy has a tendency to throw too much into the pot and then when it comes time to wrap it all up it's a whole jumbled mess. I would rather see just an a and b plot that maybe intertwine but at least get resolved in a satisfying fashion than what we usually end up with. 

[rubinia]

 

This description of her seems a little...infantilizing and dehumanizing IMHO. She's an adult human being-just a remarkably small one.

Right, but that's the way her character is depicted on the show. It's not just that the other freaks coddle her and treat her like a baby or a doll...that's how she acts, too. 

[LoneHaranguer]

I think Ma Petite would have been worth more to the museum alive than dead.

[CPP83]

This description of her seems a little...infantilizing and dehumanizing IMHO. She's an adult human being-just a remarkably small one

 

 

 

I didn't call her a child or a baby or an infant. I was referring to her spirit as a person, the way I saw her. I wasn't fawning over how cute she was as if she were a living doll, she was a person to me and that is why I was so moved by her.

 

I do not believe being an adult means one can't be filled with love or light or be a beautiful princess, I don't think those terms have an age limit personally.

 

Now did I see her as a young person? Yes I did because Jyoti is just about to turn 21 and that is still plenty young to me, though I am just a couple of years from being 70 so that may be a factor. But I saw her as being a youthfully vibrant woman, especially with that smile that could just light up a room.

 

I compared her to a butterfly because of last week, how she pretended to be one in the jar, imo she was delicate as one and just as trapped as one might be in a jar against someone like Dell because she was utterly helpless and defenseless, she could not fight him even if she tried.

 

Ma Petite in my eyes was a lovely young woman who was overly trusting, she didn't know danger in the camp because of how she'd been treated by the freaks. They all seemed to dote on her and love her and treat her well, and that is why she never would have guessed that Dell would do what he did.

 

I doubt she even knew he had attacked the Amazon, which is information they should have shared with her so at least she might be wary, at least be on her guard around him. But probably they never thought, even with his violent nature and mistreatment of the others he would never, ever, sink so low and go after Ma Petite.

 

I do think the characters on the show often treated her like a child at times, but I didn't see her as one because of that at all. I saw someone with a good heart and on this show I liked having such a character, uncorrupted, to balance out the rest.

 

In fact my first introduction to Jyoti was through a special on the Discovery Channel when she was still a teenager, and her bubbly personality and sweet nature appealed to me even then.

Edited November 20, 2014 by CPP83

[MadyGirl1987]

I just can't with Ma Petite and Dell. He can go die the most violent of deaths now... And after I was really loving him and Jimmy together when they were coming back from drinking... That was hilarious.

 

Also; I KNEW I had seen the women running the museum before. She is Cam's mother on Modern Family!

[CPP83]

And after I was really loving him and Jimmy together when they were coming back from drinking... That was hilarious.

 

 

 

Same here, the actors really nailed their scenes for me. Dell actually seemed like a human being somewhat and the way Jimmy begged him to just admit to being his father after retching his brains out...they really did a bang up job.

 

When Dell put Jimmy to bed for a second I forgot which show I was watching. It was a sweet, touching moment. I had hoped that would be the turning point for Dell, I should have known better, heh, but I did.

 

He at least was a step up on the father scale compared to the monster who destroyed his daughter's face. That to me was one of the most heinous acts of the season by far.

 

I hope she regains her strength and then goes and cuts his nuts off and then gives him a forked penis.

[Snookums]

I was cheering at the screen when Eve was opening up a can of whoop ass (as we say in the south) on Dell!  Now that is girl power.  I heart Amazon Eve!  I do kinda kinda wish they would give her a more in depth character story line.  I like that she is strong and able to take care of herself but IDk, I've seen interviews of her where the person giving the interview just disrespects her and doesn't treat her like a lady.

 

 

I find it interesting there isn't more press about her. Laverne Cox has gotten a lot of attention as a trans actor and it would be great if she did too, but if she's being disrespected maybe she doesn't want it. Here's her website:http://amazoneve.com/

[Primetimer]

Jimmy and Dell bond over how dumb they are in a stinker of an episode.

Read the story

[iMonrey]

 

What did everyone think about the Nirvana song Jimmy sang?

 

Loved it. Evan Peters can do no wrong in my book, and I'm so glad he's getting some real material to work with this season, after being criminally under-used in Coven. That said, nothing is ever going to top "The Name Game" number from Asylum.

 

 

I don't understand why everyone is fine with Elsa stabbing Paul, and then lying about calling a doctor.  No wonder she controls these people so easily.

 

Maybe they think she did call them but they wouldn't come, because they're freaks.

 

I wasn't especially moved by Ma Petite's death, frankly. They've not given me much reason to be overly invested in her character, and this is supposed to be a horror story after all.

[morgankobi]

And then fire a gun? Did he accidentally fall on an ice pick fifteen times too? The cops in Jupiter couldn't find King Kong on Free Banana Day at the Piggly Wiggly.

I must say, Snookums, that the use of Piggly Wiggly in this scenario just increases its worth tenfold!

 

As sad as Ma Petite's death was, I was also horrified by Dell killing the one person Jimmy had just talked about loving. In a weird way, it was also a heinous act against Jimmy. (Not as bad as a braining with a brick, but, still.)

 

On the other hand (hey! one more hand and I could logistically smash two hands so I couldn't perform surgery ever again), it was funny to me that the only person The Strong Man could actually take out was Ma Petite after two other failed attempts. He's not interesting or scary enough to keep around. I hope the women lynch him next episode, because there is no way they don't assume he's got something to do with Ma Petite's disappearance. 

Edited November 20, 2014 by morgankobi

[Straycat80]

Regarding the songs sang on this show, I read somewhere that the producers picked songs from artists who said they felt like freaks in their own lives.

[editorgrrl]

What did everyone think about the Nirvana song Jimmy sang?

 

Entertainment Weekly has the video.

[Dirtybubble]

The more I think about the Nirvana song the more I agree with some bloggers I've read--it didn't make any sense for Jimmy to do that song or any song for that matter.  He has never expressed an interest in singing and all of a sudden he's up there belting out a tune?  And once it's over the idea is dropped immediately?  Not a word mentioned again, it's as if it never happened.  This has the stink of R.M. all over it.  To hell with what makes sense lets just have this character do this and this other character do that and then next week they will all do different stuff.  Grrrr....it's times like this that I remember why I stopped watching Nip Tuck.

 

And as strangely bizarre as Gummer getting her face tattooed is I really don't care.  I had forgotten about this character until last week and now all of a sudden she's in love with a man who played a part in her rape/group sex video....wtf Ryan, wtf.

[Duke2801]

Poor Ma Petite.  RIP sweet lady.  :(

 

Loved Evan's Come as you Are performance.  I love that song and he did it justice. 

 

I was SO cheering Eve on as she was kicking the shit out of Dell.  But to quote Michael Bluth .... "Really? Her??"  Because how could he not have envisioned how poorly that would go??!

 

Also; I KNEW I had seen the women running the museum before. She is Cam's mother on Modern Family!

 

 

Also Joleen Hunnicutt from Alice!

[Lakewood27]

And then fire a gun? Did he accidentally fall on an ice pick fifteen times too? The cops in Jupiter couldn't find King Kong on Free Banana Day at the Piggly Wiggly.

 

Why do I insist on reading Ptv at the office?! I am weeping with laughter in my cubicle, trying to keep things professional, and failing.

[Snookums]

Also; I KNEW I had seen the women running the museum before. She is Cam's mother on Modern Family!

 

 

She's been on Law and Order as well, and was the family matriarch in the movie Junebug.

Why do I insist on reading Ptv at the office?! I am weeping with laughter in my cubicle, trying to keep things professional, and failing.

 

 

Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week, try the veal...Say, what did the teenage mutant ninja turtles post on Instagram?....SHELLFIES!

[Helena Dax]

I thought I was going to feel devastated if Ma Petite was killed but I don't know, something about her murder didn't work for me. I don't know, maybe her death scene wasn't that powerful after her fake death.  I felt worse for Gummer; her dad must die. (Dell must die too, several times, if possible).

 

Everybody was so stupid in this episode... All of them had several choices, yet they always chose the worse one. Dell and Maggie should have told Jimmy about Stanley's intention, Dot and Bette should have told everybody what Elsa did to them... And Ma Petite died before learning she should distrust people who sneaks into her room in the middle of the night. 

 

Ethel TOTALLY heard Elsa and Stanley talking about killing the sisters... If I were Elsa, I'd sleep with my eyes open. 

[Dancingjaneway]

I think if Elsa dies or gets her ass kicked it is going to be at the hands of Ethel. I say this because Ethel at this point is dying and has nothing to lose. Plus I think she is the only one who has the gumption to do it in the end. Jimmy may have yelled at her about the twins but when it comes down to it he doesn't have the balls to go up against Elsa. Ethel has a special bond with Elsa and I could see her taking advantage of that to get rid of/hurt Elsa. The Nirvana song and Jimmy singing was totally random and purely there for Ryan M's enjoyment. I would have preferred more of the story/stories unfolding than the song. 

[JellyFishQueen]

Okay- I want a drunken Jimmy and drunken Dell in every show I watch from now on. In fact, can't they be drunk all season long?

 

I wonder if Dell going to have the similar fate as Sister Jude? Being a villian in the start then turn to a hero? Also the doctor daughter, mentioning that she is from Boston? I wonder if this is lead up to sister mary eunice cameo? A connection?

[JellyFishQueen]

So did they ever say why Marget is following the orders to a T? Were they lovers? Are they family? What does he have on her having her almost kill someone?

[morgankobi]

Dell had a chance to turn hero before Ma Petite. I don't think there's any going back now, even if he dies trying to protect/save someone. 

[blaase]

So did they ever say why Marget is following the orders to a T? Were they lovers? Are they family? What does he have on her having her almost kill someone?

Maybe she's his daughter and she grew up helping him with his scams??

Dell had a chance to turn hero before Ma Petite. I don't think there's any going back now, even if he dies trying to protect/save someone. 

I hope Dell is Dandy's next victim.

[RazzleberryPie]

Seriously? Twins YAWN. Dandy YAWN. Emma Roberts YAWN. Dell and Big Peen guy, YAWN - except for when he called Dell flabby looking.

 

I was listening to Mariah Carey and Paula Abdul when Nirvana was big, so not a fan, but I liked Evan Peters sooooooo much better than Jessica Lange singing. Elsa just sucks as a character and JL is boring as Elsa. 

 

Everytime Kathy Bates appears, I want "FER YER CONESIDUREESHUN" or whatever that would sound like phonetically in Balmerese to flash on the screen. She's knocking her scenes out of the park, even with that weird accent. I find it hard to believe that a black woman, with three boobs, and what she thought was a penis, in a freak show, in the Souh, in the early 50s would have as much bold sass as Angela Bassett, but I like the Kathy/Angela friendship.

 

The Doctor - yup, how did he break one hand and then use it to break the other, then somehow managed to kill himself? Did I forget Dell killing him, or, eh, doesn't make sense but whatever. Did he write a note with two busted hands, or did Dell kindergarten scratch something with the letters written backwards and misspelled words?

 

The rest of the freaks = Amazon Eve, yeah, I'd try to chloroform her. You have the Illustrated Seal with a stab wound, a Half Woman who would have difficulty fleeing, a teeny woman who is also very innocent, two mentally challenged pinheads, a little person who would be easier to overpower, and you go after the biggest and strongest (except for maybe Jimmy)? Idiot. 

 

BTW - The actor who plays Eve is transgender. Is her character supposed to be transgender, too, or just a really tall woman? 

 

Dell just isn't intelligent. Why not just kill Peen Man and do everyone a favor. He doesn't have the only gun in Florida, and if he's gone, who cares, except Elsa. That also erases anyone who's seen you in a gay bar (except Dandy). Speaking of which, if he saw you in a gay bar, then HE'S GAY TOO, so wouldn't that be equally as bad?

 

Ma Petite - so sad, but if you think Dell is a rapist who you want to kill, why leave the most defenseless and well-liked person there alone? I can't understand a word she says, and I don't like infantizing an adult, but seriously, that was just sad. Next question - so he kills a freak and gets her to that museum, and no one wonders where she's disappeared to? She just vanishes? Right after the twins vanished and Dell attacks Eve? I know they had to have a victim, but seriously.

 

No we come to the Freak Museum or whatever it is called. I know it's in Philadelphia or somewhere Northern, but there is no circus grapevine, or newspaper article, or any indication that this museum now has the body of a very small Indian woman, when yours is missing? It's a public museum, looking for funding, so they're going to publicize new exhibits. If it were a weirdos private collection, OK. But a public museum?

 

Finally, Penny and her Dad were horrific. It's about time. I don't know if I missed something that was implied or cut out, when she talked about how evil and horrible her father was, so she had to leave, but all we saw was a traditional dad telling her to quit staying out for days, coming home high and screwing around with a carnie freak. Pretty normal for today, let alone 1952. Now what he did to her was without warning and disturbing. That would be horrific to wake up to knowing your father had you disfigured and then kicked you out. Forked tongue, tattooed face, jacked up hair and did she have some sort of holes in her forehead? Tattoos healed within minutes of being done though. That's pretty amazing.

[Armchair Critic]

I'm not really looking forward to Doris' daughter showing up I feel like it's just going to weigh the show down

 

Gabourey Sidibe... too easy of a joke.

 

I'll see myself out....

[poppy-]

The more I think about the Nirvana song the more I agree with some bloggers I've read--it didn't make any sense for Jimmy to do that song or any song for that matter.  He has never expressed an interest in singing and all of a sudden he's up there belting out a tune?  And once it's over the idea is dropped immediately?  Not a word mentioned again, it's as if it never happened.  This has the stink of R.M. all over it.  To hell with what makes sense lets just have this character do this and this other character do that and then next week they will all do different stuff.  Grrrr....it's times like this that I remember why I stopped watching Nip Tuck.

 

 

I didn't mind the song as a "Jimmy performs to express his anger" .......or as a callback to a much stronger season.

Man, Season 1.  Every week I was like "whaaaaaaaaat did I just watch?" and high creep factor. 

 

I did like how the show never really gave us a great look at the newly tattooed lady, she was always in shadow.  It amped up the horror factor somehow.

 

I saw a reference somewhere (some other site) to wanting to see an Ethel and Desiree "Murder She Wrote" style spinoff.    That, I would watch.

[jenny2682]

See this episode really got to me. Not only was I bawling and cringing when Ma Petit was attacked, I felt physically ill seeing her in that jar with people gawking at her. Murphy really is to me at least driving home he point of "freaks". There are many out there such as Dandy, Dell, Nutter Museum guy etc who look like the rest of us, appear normal etc. Underneath lurks inhuman psychopaths that are inhuman by their unrepentant greed, murder lust, lack of conscience and inability to change. THEY are the freaks and in my opinion can't be called humans. And there are millions walking around today and you won't figure it out or who they are until sometimes it's to late. Shivers.

 

Amazon Eve for the win tonight!!

[Mattipoo]

Poor Ma Petit. I was so happy she didn't die last episode but guess it couldn't last. She was just too easy of a target. The Nirvana song was a little gratuitous I thought as it didn't have much connection to the show itself, but Evan Peters did a spot-on rendition of Kurt Cobain. Wish there was a mosh pit and crowd surfing involved though. What Penny's father did to her was horrible. I hope she gets revenge on him. I liked the bar scene with Dell and Jimmy and enjoyed their father-son bonding. Glad Jimmy got to say goodnight to his dad.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Mattipoo

[Insomnia]

Oh I understand - and I don't mean to so much debate you as the show in this regard :) 

 

If Denis O'Hare knows that Del has been visiting a gay bar because he saw him there... then Del knows the same about Denis. And he can't hold that gun 24/7.

But he did also point out if you are going to threaten someone who has a short temper, do so publicly. The implication being that if anything happens to him, everyone will know / assume it was Del who did it.

[Christi]

I assume that scene took place in a significant time jump ahead from the current events. By the time the exhibit featuring Ma Petite opened, the events around the Freak Show would have long seen conclusion and whatever news made it way back would have been received by a scattered few survivors of whatever was left.

Also could have been in Stanley's imagination, like the last one. Projecting to himself what a hero he will be.

I miss u Ma Petit and Meep :(

Going to Cirque Du Soleil's new show in San Francisco on Saturday nite. Ill be looking at their tents a little differently this time :/

Edited November 21, 2014 by Christi

[Brattinella]

 

But he did also point out if you are going to threaten someone who has a short temper, do so publicly. The implication being that if anything happens to him, everyone will know / assume it was Del who did it.

 

Is there really someone who will care?  This is a stranger, a newcomer, with nothing to offer.  Who will miss him?

[Insomnia]

Cops might care, if it's a Freak being accused.

[Brattinella]

Exactly.  And who from the town would even notice he is gone?

[LittleIggy]

I think Ma Petite would have been worth more to the museum alive than dead.

Thank you! I was thinking the exact same thing. People would rather see a "living doll" than a corpse in formaldehyde.

[jenny2682]

Thank you! I was thinking the exact same thing. People would rather see a "living doll" than a corpse in formaldehyde.

 

I was wondering that as well. I suppose though he figured alive Ma Petit would not go with him nor leave her "family" of freaks. She was comfortable with them and would probably not have left them and Elsa would have fought it tooth and nail.

[Insomnia]

Hey, I don't pretend to know who would care or why, or understand Ryan Murphy's brain at all. People were asking why Dell didn't go after what's his name - he made a threat about threatening Dell in public and he had a short fuse, and that was apparently enough for Dell.

 

It makes sense, even if it doesn't.

[JellyFishQueen]

So...this muesum is apparently going out of business but they have fancy dinner partys? Like really fancy with people in fine gowns?

Maybe she's his daughter and she grew up helping him with his scams??

I hope Dell is Dandy's next victim.

That would be amazing! And makes perfect sense if they were Father and daughter. Now I'm going to be sad if they aren't :(

[bookrat]

Why couldn't Dell just dig up Meep and give the body to the Dennis O'Hare character?

[Nutjob]

 

On the other hand (hey! one more hand and I could logistically smash two hands so I couldn't perform surgery ever again), it was funny to me that the only person The Strong Man could actually take out was Ma Petite after two other failed attempts. He's not interesting or scary enough to keep around. I hope the women lynch him next episode, because there is no way they don't assume he's got something to do with Ma Petite's disappearance.

I thought this was hilarious, too. Dell is supposed to be this big, tough dude, but the only people he can dominate are little Ma Petite and the elderly doctor. Even the bartender was on the older side, and completely caught off guard behind the bar. Amazon Eve beat the ever loving crap out of him, and Desiree kicked him to the curb without him being able to so much as bat an eye. Elsa is clearly not intimated by him, either. I do find it curious that RM is going out of his way to so thoroughly emasculate the closeted gay strong man character, though

 

Poor Ma Petite. While I admit that I never had much reason to connect with her character, the sight of big Michael Chiklis snapping her tiny little neck was horrific.

[Lila82]

What I learned from this episode: vitamins and foie gras can solve any and all problems.  Not enough time with the Mott family

 

ETA:

 

Amazon Eve's shoe rack would make Carrie Bradshaw weep.  I think that was the most distressing part of the fight.  It's one thing to try and kill someone, another to mess with her heels.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Lila82

[fliptopbox]

On another note, have any of you been to the Mutter Museum in Philadelphia (clearly the inspiration for the museum of oddities in the show)? It's pretty queasily fascinating and I have never seen so many metalheads and goths in daylight in my life.

http://muttermuseum.org/

I love love LOVE the Mutter Museum. I try to go there everytime I am in Philly. It's cryptic and bizarre, and everything I would expect from a museum dedicated to medical oddities.

[JakeyJokes]

Amazon Eve is my favorite. From what we've seen of her, it seems to me that because of her size, she feels that she has to be extra polite and ladylike. But apparently she'll also take a bitch down, if she has to.

 

 

 

We don't see her a lot, but she does always seem to be very demure and sweet. I wonder how much of that is in the script and if it's a choice by Ryan Murphy or Erika Ervin. I find it to be a quietly interesting part of the show.

 

I'm so sad they killed Ma Petite, but I think it will really drive the story. Elsa has been cagey enough to flirt with the idea of letting Stanley murder the twins if it will get them out of her hair -- but remember, she loved Ma Petite more than she loved anyone else (as she told her last week in French). While we don't know their entire history, it's safe to say that Ma Petite was the closest thing Elsa had to motherhood or family, and she was the last thing that kept her humane. She can't feel that way about Ethel anymore because she knows that if Ethel finds out she sold the twins, it's all over. Elsa hasn't been my favorite character this season, but I look forward to see how she reacts to Ma Petite's death -- will it humanize her and bring her back to reality, or will she become even more ruthless?

 

Penny and the tattoo mauling was HORRIBLE, but it really felt like horror, and I haven't felt that way from this show since Shelly woke up without her legs in Season 2. So, well played, show.

Edited November 21, 2014 by JakeyJokes

[Dobian]

While I enjoy some of the anachronisms on this show, Jimmy belting out Nirvana in a year where rock music wasn't even invented yet was a bit of a reach.  What next, is Elsa going to whip out her iPhone?

[Dobian]

I'm so sad they killed Ma Petite, but I think it will really drive the story. Elsa has been cagey enough to flirt with the idea of letting Stanley murder the twins if it will get them out of her hair -- but remember, she loved Ma Petite more than she loved anyone else (as she told her last week in French). While we don't know their entire history, it's safe to say that Ma Petite was the closest thing Elsa had to motherhood or

Penny and the tattoo mauling was HORRIBLE, but it really felt like horror, and I haven't felt that way from this show since Shelly woke up without her legs in Season 2. So, well played, show.

Oh that's right, I had totally forgotten about Shelly.  I'm curious why Chloe Sevigny was never on the show again, you'd think she might have become one of the series regulars.  She was great on Big Love.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Dobian

[Deanie87]

Everytime Kathy Bates appears, I want "FER YER CONESIDUREESHUN" or whatever that would sound like phonetically in Balmerese to flash on the screen. She's knocking her scenes out of the park, even with that weird accent.

The scene of her tearfully telling Jimmy about the cruel world was seriously the most moving scene in the series thus far. (A close second was her scene with the kind doctor). Kathy Bates was just phenomenal in both scenes. I like what Lange is doing with Elsa, but the sorrow and humanity that comes off of Ethel in waves is just heartbreaking.

I think her accent is getting better too and I have lived in and around Baltimore for 25+ years.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Deanie87

[Captanne]

Dundawk, hon?  (I have some rights as a Worshington, DC Native.  LOL)

Edited November 22, 2014 by Captanne