S05.E06: Consumed

[Pete Martell]

I don't agree. IMO, we who Carol is and I don't buy that there is anything else to know about her so I am not interested any of these quiet moments that they are keep trying to give her to make her oh so deep and basically rationalize her murder of Karen and David. Even watching Yvette trying to dissect Carol's thoughts and feelings bores me to tears.

 

I think the Karen and David story was a mess and I'm never really going to support it. I mostly focus on her past, and on Mika and Lizzie, and I think those parts of her story still work. 

 

I feel like there's an idea of Carol, and then the reality of her. The idea of Carol in fandom is that she's a cold shrew, or she's an action figure, or that she's a lost mother - the reality is that she's many things, and i think this episode sort of blended those together. As someone who flinches every time people talk about how she's going to save everyone with both hands tied behind her back (which makes her into a Mary Sue with a bazooka), I was happy to have an episode where she was fallible. I needed to see it.

[ghoulina]

I feel like the episode was less about setting up Carol's death than it was about suggesting her first attempts at healing. Her asking Daryl to save Noah felt like a turning point, a way to keep her pragmatism without seeing death as the default.

 

I so agree. I feel like Carol was dealing with a bit of a Midas complex. She told Daryl that she can't save people anymore. I think she felt like everything she touched turn to shit, so why bother? But perhaps Noah showed her that she wasn't too far gone. That maybe she could come back from this.

[nodorothyparker]

I think there's still quite a bit we didn't know about Carol, namely the real person under the "badass" persona she hides behind. Ultimately she has her limits in brutality, and she's still battling the trauma of her past. We got hints of this in "Strangers" but I'm glad we got more tonight.

Tying to the theme of fire and ash that seemed to be running through this episode, I really liked her talking about how she had been so weak but that person had burned away for the person she wanted to be and became at the prison but then that person burned away too.  She didn't elaborate on that maybe because she doesn't feel she has to or maybe because she just doesn't know herself.  It supports a thought I've had for the past season and a half that she overcorrected at the prison in her zealousness not be weak again and that's how we ended up with the whole karvid mess.  She didn't try to rationalize because she can't.  It's just something that is.

 

Starting out by saying they don't get to save people anymore and then doing exactly that when Daryl acted like he was ready to leave Noah to die I think was an important turning point for her.  If she was really beyond feeling or beyond wanting to keep fighting, she would have let the walker have him.

Edited November 17, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[SimoneS]

I'm confused. What did Carol do or say in this episode that gave the impression she was trying to rationalize or justify killing Karvid? If anything, I get the impression she actually feels pretty badly about doing that. But given that Tyrese forgave her, I don't think she's really dwelling on it a ton. The thing I think that is weighing on her super heavily right now is what happened with the girls in the grove.

 

I was referring to the writers. I do think that redeeming Carol for killing Karen and David is one of the continuous underlying threads by the writers. Anyway, I don't care. I just want the writers stop devoting all this time to Carol when we already know who she is as well as Abraham, etc. and move the main plot along. 

[Macbeth]

I absolutely loved this episode.  Loved it.

 

But I refuse to believe the implication that it was Beth that made a man out of Daryl.

[SimoneS]

 

The idea of Carol in fandom is that she's a cold shrew, or she's an action figure, or that she's a lost mother - the reality is that she's many things, and i think this episode sort of blended those together. 

 

Again, I don't know buy that most people do not already know this. The writers shout this about almost every character really. It is time to give these character episodes a  rest and move the main plot along. 

Edited November 17, 2014 by SimoneS

[Pete Martell]

I think that it is more than time for Carol to die and thought they were going in that direction, but I having doubts now. I feel like Gimple has pushed aside the female characters that I like, Michonne and Maggie, in favor of Carol. 

 

I don't know if Gimple gets Maggie, but I think he's done great work with Michonne. It just seems like she's been lost in the shuffle this season, which sucks. Carol was gone for quite a bit of last season too, but she had a few episodes before she was gone. Hopefully Michonne will have a few later this season.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Nice callback to the S1 episode Guts, Darryl and Noah escaping in a similar truck.

Plus they also left someone behind.

[Pete Martell]

Liked the episode but the van scene was silly. First off they knew they were going to check out the van with zombies in tow, so they should have been running to the van to increase the distance between them and give them more time. If the van was unstable, why do both of them enter the front to search for clues? But most of all there was no excuse for these two experienced people to get backed into that van at the last minute. Why even bother stabbing in a closed circle? Just push and run AWAY. You have a whole four lane bridge for running space.

 

That just made me laugh a little. I think the idea was sound (Daryl and Carol trusting each other even in the face of death), but the van crash was just too "TV" and not realistic in terms of injuries. I was almost hoping Daryl would beat his chest and say, "Tough. Dixon tough." after he emerged unscathed.

[mmecorday]

 

Daryl, honey, I love you. But somewhere in that zombie apocalypse there has to be a bar of soap and shampoo.

I know keeping clean is the least of their concerns, but sometimes I feel like I need to call in a professional cleaning service to sanitize my TV screen after watching this show.

[lulee]

I absolutely loved this episode.  Loved it.

 

But I refuse to believe the implication that it was Beth that made a man out of Daryl.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. I think it was more being without a leader - Rick or Merle - that got him through character puberty.

[natyxg]

Again, I don't know buy that most people do not already know this. The writers shout this about almost every character really. It is time to give these character episodes a  rest and move the main plot along. 

 

I agree with you. I found this episode boring and slow because I felt that the plot was slow and the character stuff and the flashbacks didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. It was pretty obvious to me from the beginning of the season that she was struggling with everything that was happening and that she had a hard time after Rick kicked her out and because of everything, that she was kind of numb and lost.

 

That's not to say that there were NO Carol moments that I liked, but overall I didn't need so much looking angsty, slow deep converstations with Daryl. The one I did love was when she said that Ed-Carol was consumed and then Prision-Carol was consumed and now she doesn't know who she is. But that could've happened in the middle of a better paced episode.

 

So yeah, please move the plot along. And this applies to the season plot as well as the episodes' plots. The majority of episodes should be like the season premiere, imo.

[Watcher0363]

Twenty years from now some punk kid will be writing his thesis on Carol as a modern day Greek tragedy. Getting what you wished for by way of a crumbling world which just brings more misery and something new to wish for. Only for that wish to come true through more tragedy which brings only more misery. "The misery and tragedy of a modern Phoenix: Carol's journey through the Zombie Apocalypse"

 

Poor Carol she refuses to go gentle into that good night. So I salute you with a little Dylan Thomas, 1914 - 1953 .

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

 

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

 

Looks like Beth has the Queen Bee pheromones. A moment in her company, a lifetime of servitude. Why do risk so much for her? She is my Queen, long live the Queen.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Dawn and her merry band of rapists better Get Got next week.

[Pete Martell]

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. I think it was more being without a leader - Rick or Merle - that got him through character puberty.

 

I think it's sort of an example that Daryl tends to become the person he's with. For instance, he couldn't fight Carol's bleaker nature; she's the one who had to try to break through this outlook, and when she did, so did he.

 

He's not really his own person. Maybe his taking the book means he's on the path to trying to figure out who that person is.

[mla40]

I like Daryl cause I really can't stand him. He can really be dense and I like that they keep that a constant with him. I think Carol is actually dying to tell him about Lizzy and he just isn't going to go there, he knows it's going to bad and doesn't want to hear it so he shuts down th conversation.

[peach]

Hmm.  I don't think he shuts it down.  He leaves it open, IMO.  He's not going to push her to tell him what happened, but little by little she moves toward it.  He just listens, but full-on dude.  He doesn't pry it out of her.

[Pete Martell]

I'm not really attracted to Daryl very often, but he had one of those hot-as-hell moments when he was lifting himself up to kick the walkers from the van. 

[mla40]

He wouldn't have had to even pry it out of her when they were on the bed (IMO) just a 'You wanna tell me yet?' or one of his broody looks with the right tone grunt would have had her spilling her guts.

[shanndee]

Hmm.  I don't think he shuts it down.  He leaves it open, IMO.  He's not going to push her to tell him what happened, but little by little she moves toward it.  He just listens, but full-on dude.  He doesn't pry it out of her.

 

Agreed. And Norman Reedus confirmed this on an interview segment in Talking Dead. He said that the two characters were so close that they knew they would tell each other the whole story in their own time, no pressure to share before the other was ready.

[Artsda]

This episode was interesting to me, it's like Daryl and Carol trying to mesh again after being apart for so long. Like her commenting on how he's changed and she's trying to get him to ask her about what happened with the girls but he's not going there. Even though she's leading him there and basically asking him to ask her. 

 

Daryl stopping Carol from killing Noah, she wasn't aiming to the legs. A gun shot in this world is a death sentence no matter where the bullet hole goes. Then after Daryl mulls over Carol telling him he's changed, he is willing to let Noah die, grabs his gear and a cigarette. He still saves Noah, but only changes his tune towards him when he finds out about Beth. 

 

I had originally thought Carol being wheeled in to the hospital was a plan, but nope Carol gets hit by a car in an apocalypse when there's no traffic at all. 

 

Daryl brings Noah back to the church and he's going to mount an army to get Beth back. Go Daryl!

[Bad Example]

I really do wonder why Carol & Daryl aren't sleeping together.  It's not a shipper thing.  It's just that they obviously care deeply about each other and the world sucks so much, I feel like they ought to get a moment of feeling good if they can.  It's not romance, it's just comfort.  (And age appropriate.  Ahem.)

[MrsRafaelBarba]

I think Daryl is still a virgin, Carol will have to make the first move.

[JenMcSnark]

I think Daryl is still a virgin, Carol will have to make the first move.

I think that's why she noted that he's more of a man now when before he was a boy.  Carol has been willing, in my opinion, but she also loves and respects Daryl and knew that he wasn't even remotely in that place.  That he needed other things from her.  And she gave that with no regrets.  

[Nashville]

Daryl's airbag deployed; didn't see one on Carol's side.

 

Gotta correct myself; Carol's airbag did go off.  The first camera shot after the van lands is of Daryl, and you can see the deployed airbag half-draped over the steering wheel.  No sign of Carol's airbag in her camera shot immediately after the landing - but if you look in front of Carol immediately before the first bug hits the windshield, you can see the deployed airbag hanging out of the dash in front of her.

[thuganomics85]

Of the "character centric" episodes these past three weeks, this was probably my favorite, even if I didn't like it as much as the first few episodes so far.  But, I do like the Darly/Carol interactions, and how they weren't in sync as much, do to being separated last season.  I also like the fact that there is still a lot of stuff they don't know about each other, like that Carol did try to go to a woman's shelter before the outbreak, but couldn't stick with it.

 

I hope the show surprises me and Noah sticks around for a few more episodes.  I think Tyler James Williams is doing a good job in this role.

 

So, it looks like Carol wasn't play acting, but really was injured, when she got wheeled in.  So much for a heroic rescue from the inside.  I guess it's up to Daryl, Rick, and the rest to figuring out a plan.

 

The van stunt was a bit too much for me, but I did laugh when walkers began raining down on the van.  Between that, the tent walkers, and the one ran over in the beginning, there seemed to be more humorous moments with walkers and killing them this time.

[Turtle]

Poor Daryl, now he lost both of them. :'(

 

I wonder how this could change Daryl, if he's not able to save one or both of them.  I think he's a rather emotionally complex person to begin with, and suffering even more significant losses after all he's already been through could undo a lot of the emotional growth we've seen him go through. 

 

Daryl, honey, I love you. But somewhere in that zombie apocalypse there has to be a bar of soap and shampoo.

 

Or even just a creek.  But I maintain that none of these people are as dirty as the Sons of Anarchy.​

 

I have been surprised that more of these characters haven't slept together.  I get that they have other things to deal with, but sex is a pretty natural reaction to high-stress and high-adrenaline situations.  In reality, I think there would be a lot more comfort sex going on.  That said, I get that maybe the show doesn't explore it because it could be seen as complicating the interpersonal relationships they work so hard to develop.  Like, if Carol and Daryl did occasionally hook up, that's all anyone would talk about, instead of the (I think) more interesting conversations like "You don't me" "Keep telling yourself that."  

Edited November 17, 2014 by Turtle

[Lizzing]

What surprised me the most was this totally inconsequential moment: Carol has a back flash to when Rick kicked her out, she finds herself in a law office, dumps out the recycling bin of empty water bottles.  (Then tries to trap rain, etc.)  Go to Carol and Daryl in the office with the 1/3 full water dispenser, and all they have is one flask?  And the time she spent loading that up was about 10 seconds, so it's not THAT full.  She should have had empties to fill up and get that flask full.  Hell, I haven't lived through a ZA (yet! knock on wood!) but that's how I roll on a 110 day on a golf course.

[Pete Martell]

I wonder how this could change Daryl, if he's not able to save one or both of them.  I think he's a rather emotionally complex person to begin with, and suffering even more significant losses after all he's already been through could undo a lot of the emotional growth we've seen him go through. 

 

 

Or even just a creek.  But I maintain that none of these people are as dirty as the Sons of Anarchy.​

 

I have been surprised that more of these characters haven't slept together.  I get that they have other things to deal with, but sex is a pretty natural reaction to high-stress and high-adrenaline situations.  In reality, I think there would be a lot more comfort sex going on.  That said, I get that maybe the show doesn't explore it because it could be seen as complicating the interpersonal relationships they work so hard to develop.  Like, if Carol and Daryl did occasionally hook up, that's all anyone would talk about, instead of the (I think) more interesting conversations like "You don't me" "Keep telling yourself that."  

 

Beyond the show not doing all that brilliantly at writing romantic or sexual relationships and maintaining characterization (I think Bob/Sasha have probably been their best effort in that area), I think it may also be fear of fan backlash. Andrea was labeled a slut and a whore for her relationships with Shane and the Governor. She was supposed to be a major heroine, and a lot of fans never forgave her for those relationships (of course the one with the Governor had a whole host of other problems and I can see why fans were put off). I imagine that must have clouded some minds at TPTB.

[Yolapukka]

This episode was exhibit A in why I won't ship Carol and Daryl except as being preferable to Beth and Daryl. Ugh. They are too much alike with nearly identical baggage and it adds up to a lot of dreary dialogue. I adore Carol and Daryl is high on my list of characters, but I don't need an epi dedicated to them, at least not if it requires this much filler. a lot of what Carol and Daryl said to each other was clunky, the bit about him going from being like a kid to a man was particularly cringe-worthy. Some of what was said between the two of them happened to be conversations I had really wanted to hear them have , so it was disappointing that so many lines were dragged out and weighted with portentousness and heavy-handed Meaning when it was the the simpler, direct exchanges that worked best.

 

I liked the excitement of the van going off the bridge, though I agree with anyone who thinks that getting them into that vehicle involved eye-rollingly bad judgement. I liked that they did indeed encounter Noah. I didn't like how it happened. I didn't care for him robbing and endangering them. I hated Daryl knocking him into that bookcase. I shrieked. Fucking hell, there were so many ways that could have killed him, most of them awful, Brain bleed, suffocation due to chest compression, internal bleeding, broken ribs piercing his internal organs, slow starvation, walker attack, All sorts of consequences involving broken limbs. It was not entertaining to me, especially since it was in service to a very cheap contrived moment with Daryl manipulating Carol into admitting she wanted to try to save Noah. There were things I appreciated about the episode but it would have been much better had it not been a two-hander for most of it.

 

These types of limited cast episodes worked for me after the fall of the prison and some of those were quite strong like when Carl and Michonne went on a supply run and Joe's Marauders came into the house while Rick was sleeping upstairs or The Grove, which was excellent. But we also got stuck with Still, with Beth yapping about getting her drink on and Daryl being especially sullen. That one should have been interspersed with what was going on in another group far away, like Maggie's bunch, maybe then it would have occurred to the writers that the daughters of Hershel should express some deep grief over his horrible death and fear for one another's welfare instead of the way those emotional beats have been hand-waved. .  It's also why these episodes try my patience. we lose momentum in the main narrative and other stories and they have to over-rely on devices like flashbacks to underline what is happening in the present day. The flashbacks in this episode were particularly dreadful, though there were a couple of good moments, most of them were filler that would not have been necessary if the time-line they'd committed themselves to didn't happen to be behind the episodes with the main group.

 

More goddamn one-note Dawn next week making Beth look like Meryl Streep in comparison. I hope they take away all her hairspray and pins so she completely loses her shit before they kill that sour-faced bore. Or just shoot her in the face before the first commercial break, that'll work too.

 

 

  

[CloverTracey]

Enjoying after effects of carol/Darryl binge. Pass me a cigarette...

[Pete Martell]

 

I liked the excitement of the van going off the bridge, though I agree with anyone who thinks that getting them into that vehicle involved eye-rollingly bad judgement. I liked that they did indeed encounter Noah. I didn't like how it happened. I didn't care for him robbing and endangering them. I hated Daryl knocking him into that bookcase. I shrieked. Fucking hell, there were so many ways that could have killed him, most of them awful, Brain bleed, suffocation due to chest compression, internal bleeding, broken ribs piercing his internal organs, slow starvation, walker attack, All sorts of consequences involving broken limbs. It was not entertaining to me, especially since it was in service to a very cheap contrived moment with Daryl manipulating Carol into admitting she wanted to try to save Noah. There were things I appreciated about the episode but it would have been much better had it not been a two-hander for most of it.

 

I feel like he actually was going to leave Noah to die, rather than trying to manipulate Carol.

 

I agree about the bookcase. That really should have done serious damage. I mean, it's TV, everyone has super-healing ability unless the plot calls for them not to, but that did distract me. 

 

I felt like they decided they had to put Noah into the role of the man Daryl and Carol saved, to double up their development and add to our angst over Beth. I didn't mind the idea, I just would have changed a few things. Having him hold a gun on them and telling them to stay away and running off, instead of robbing them, for instance. I don't subscribe to the I HATE HIM HE TOOK THE CROSSBOW!!! fetishism, but the writers should know that some fans won't forget that type of thing, even if he spends the rest of his time on the show saving orphans and kittens and puppies.

[GaT]

What a waste of time. Did we learn anything new besides Carol stayed a battered women's shelter with Sofia?

My sentiments exactly. The only thing I found interesting was when they Thelma & Louised off of the bridge. I hope the next episode is the last one with the hospital, because that is one boring place.

[paigow]

Have other shows besides X-Files used Morley cigarettes?

[Yolapukka]

I feel like he actually was going to leave Noah to die, rather than trying to manipulate Carol.

 

That was how I felt when Daryl made no move to help and walked away but he dispatched the walker as soon as Noah was in immediate danger and Carol spoke up for him, it seemed like he'd lined up the shot once he stepped into the hall leaving Carol with Noah. Maybe I'm reading too much into the timing, but it seemed  a little too quick and in the context of Daryl saving him earlier and Carol saying she didn't believe they could save people anymore it seemed like Daryl had reacted to Noah by putting Carol in the position of  deciding to save him.

Edited November 17, 2014 by yuggapukka

[GaT]

Have other shows besides X-Files used Morley cigarettes?

Thank you. Morley was familiar but I couldn't remember where I had seen it before.

[GreyBunny]

Now THAT'S how to do a bottle episode.  I loved it.  Not a lot of exposition but Daryl and Carol get each other on a certain level so it's not needed.  Just a look or a nod and that's enough.  

 

Loved the sleeping bag zombies, I can imagine some poor dead person trapped wiggling around inside a sleeping bag for a year or more.  REI hell.

[Brooke0707]

I was entertained enough I guess during the episode, but ever since the last season, the show has been breaking up the plot/characters by episode and while I don't mind it sometimes, to do it ALL the time IMO really messes with the momentum.  It's like by the time we get back to Rick and company, probably very little time will have passed in show time, but it's been several weeks so it's like "oh, Rick, Michonne, Carl, etc. have been chilling at the church for a month."  I'm sure part of it is to serve the plot and because the cast is big, but it just tends to slow things down.  Compare that to the first episode when basically everyone got together and it was kill kill kill.  It doesn't have to be that every week, but this episode did feel like filler. It could have easily encompassed one or two segments rather than a whole show.  The flashbacks, while I didn't mind them, weren't surprising.  It's not like I thought that when Carol was kicked out, she went on a killing rampage while she was away from the group.  The stuff they showed her doing was the kind of thing that was what I thought she was doing anyway.  Basically all this episode was: "Daryl and Carol try to find Beth and figure out where she is.  Carol is taken by the psycho hospital people after she is hit by car."  All in all, I think the show needs to move away from the whole "let's do episodes by group" because it messes with pacing in a bad way IMO.

 

Also, this episode confirmed to me (what I pretty much thought before) that nothing romantic will ever happen between Daryl and Carol (IMO).  This episode and the way they were showing their bond couldn't have been more platonic IMO.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Brooke0707

[wmdekooning]

Have other shows besides X-Files used Morley cigarettes?

Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morley_%28cigarette%29

[Nashville]

I hated Daryl knocking him into that bookcase. I shrieked. Fucking hell, there were so many ways that could have killed him, most of them awful, Brain bleed, suffocation due to chest compression, internal bleeding, broken ribs piercing his internal organs, slow starvation, walker attack, All sorts of consequences involving broken limbs.

I am fairly certain Daryl's least concern was possible injury to the person who had stolen their own means of defense - especially considering Noah had just slung a walker onto an injured Carol.  I fully supported Daryl's blitz attack, because any other approach would have probably gotten Daryl shot.  if Noah had had the opportunity to see Daryl approaching - Daryl, the man Noah had last seen while stealing his weapons - I challenge anyone to deny that Noah wouldn't have had a gunsight on Daryl in a heartbeat - and probably taken the shot, out of fear of retaliation.  An injured Noah is better than a dead Daryl, especially from Daryl's point of view.

 

It was not entertaining to me, especially since it was in service to a very cheap contrived moment with Daryl manipulating Carol into admitting she wanted to try to save Noah. There were things I appreciated about the episode but it would have been much better had it not been a two-hander for most of it.

I don't think mind games had a thing to do with it.  I believe Daryl fully planned to walk off and let Noah do or die for himself, and only changed his mind because of Carol's insistence upon rescuing the boy.  Quite the role reversal from earlier, when Carol was trying to shoot Noah and Daryl was saying, "he's just a kid."

 

IMHO the notion that Daryl manipulated Carol into pleading to save Noah's life has it backward.  I believe Carol's pleading - and the change in Carol's mindset it indicated - convinced Daryl to change his mind from his original intent of leaving Noah to the walker wolves.

[natyxg]

I thought Daryl wasn't gonna really leave Noah, but wanted to scare him as punishment for stealing their weapons and etc.

[GreyBunny]

I thought so too, he wanted to teach Noah a lesson and get Carol to a place where she would want to save the kid's life.

[Helena Dax]

Do you think Carol was hit on purpose by that car? Or it was an accident?

 

I liked the episode. Getting caught inside the van was a rookie mistake, but I loved how they solved it, especially the zombie rain. At the shelter, it was a nice, sad touch to let Daryl deal with the mum and the little girl by himself. And I also liked that he took that book, although the middle of a ZA seems a odd moment to start working on your childhood traumas.

[lulee]

Do you think Carol was hit on purpose by that car? Or it was an accident?

As quickly as it happened, I'm leaning toward accident, but I'm just realizing how stupid it was of her to dash into the street where she'd just seen the station wagon when she looked down out the window.  That felt contrived, especially after getting caught by Noah on the building bridge earlier and by the walkers on the overpass.

[Bec]

People who saw that scene where Daryl burns a bundle in a preview - were y'all as disappointed as I was that it turns out the bundle wasn't Beth? I'm also disappointed that Carol is really injured and it wasn't just a ruse to get into the hospital. If Carol gets killed for Beth of all people, I'm going to be pissed. Beth is the most boring character on the show. I missed her about as much as Maggie did when she was missing. That is to say I didn't miss her at all.

 

Sure, it wasn't a lot of movement plotwise, but this episode didn't feel dull to me since they were moving through so many different locations. Have we ever seen this many different locations in one episode? Most of this show takes place in one location per season, and it's especially dull when they run around in the woods, because the woods look the same all the time.

 

But the city, oh, there is so much to see in the city. So many different kinds of devastation with the mess and ruin of bombed and crumbling structures justaposed with some places still left eerily untouched. I might feel way too emmersed in the zombie apocalyse world  - the first thing I noticed when they entered that fancy office was "OMG, there's a water cooler! Get the water!"

 

I didn't like the darkness in many of the earlier episodes, but darkness was used well in this one. The scene where they break into a building for a place to spend the night while all we could see was a whole throng of shapes moving towards them in the dark streets? That was pretty scary. And probably very good for the budget because they didn't have to put makeup on the zombie extras for that shot. And the mother and daughter walker duo? All we could see were their shadows behind the frosted glass, and that was enough. The little camp on the footbridge was great, too. Kind of enigmatic, makes me wonder what happened there (it had to be something that killed them all at once, otherwise one person turning would eat the rest instead of leaving them so intact). Daryl's "I don't know what to think" reaction made me laugh. I love how the show came up with so many creative ways to be effective without relying too much on effects.

 

Though they also pulled out all the stops, effects-wise, with that falling van.

[pasdetrois]

 

"OMG, there's a water cooler! Get the water!"

I get excited every time someone explores a beautiful, unspoiled building. I keep imagining how great it would feel to find safe water and food and self-help books.

 

I love the way the writers find new ways to present zombies. The invisible, fumbling zombie-trapped-in-a-tent was hilarious. Anybody who has ever tried to quickly get out of a tent in the middle of the night will appreciate it.

 

Poor Carol, slammed around in the van flip and then smashed by an ambulance. Maybe she threw herself in front of the ambulance to be rescued from the existential conversations with Daryl.

[kikismom]

Some thoughts:

 

I don't think Daryl is really dense, and I do think his reaction to the painting was a little disingenuous. He could see she was interested, and think of the time Andrea brought him a book: he grunts: no pictures! Now we know damn well he's slipped and shown that he does like to read, and does know big words...but he has to do the dismissal thing. Years of Merle mean you don't say you like art, or literature.

I've said it before, it's a defense mechanism he has because he's worried about being made fun of. He has to say a quick tough guy thing...a book without pictures is shit, a painting is like a dog wiped it's ass, etc.

This ties in completely IMO with his discomfort with flirting and joking: if his "stop" to Carol's remark was true rejection, why does he do it with everyone else? Beth and Zach? Damn romance novel! for example. He always has to belittle anything that would veer into sensitive feels territory.

Actually, I've known a few males who like a movie like say My House In Umbria, but as soon as someone else with a Y chromosome is around it's damn useless chick flicks make me puke. Men are always needling each other, and scanning for the one dude who mistakenly reveals anything that isn't Bad-Ass approved.

 

I think the show has really made a mistake with the van fall right after the bus crash. It's already done the Lori-flips-a-car-that-rolls-5-times-goes-airborne-and-lands-on-the-roof.

In all these wrecks, people get out with cuts or soreness but by God nothing more serious. Once or twice was testing credulity; three times is now a running joke.

 

I think the bottle episodes are not to delve deep, they are to wrap up. The show is not giving us new chapters on characters, they are closing a book to start a very different new one, and that's why Michonne has no lines. That's why Carl is background. That's why Rick and Sasha and Tyreese are MIA. Because we'll be seeing plenty of them soon.They'll have lots of lines soon. Because they will appear in the new TWD 2.0.

Some other people won't.

 

Do other people really think those characters are being marginalized? IMO, hardly. We're at a retirement dinner with speeches and mementos. It's the viewers version of a death dinner. The entire sickness arc was a swan song for some people, especially Herschel/Scott Wilson.

Personally I have no worries about "Michonne and Maggie" being sacrificed for other characters. No more than Carl or Rick is being written out.

Edited November 17, 2014 by kikismom

[seacliffsal]

I loved this episode-especially after the last two.  Although the Beth episode was different and showed how others were surviving, the Abraham episode just revealed what we already knew-Eugene was a liar.  This episode had some wonderful character moments and introduced Noah to the larger group in an organic way.  Of course he would be an antagonist at first-one can never trust the people one meets during the ZA.  I like that the Beth connection came up the second time they met rather than the first time (even though that was what I expected).  I also liked some of the quieter moments.  However, next week should be awesome...

[leto]

Great episode. Melissa McBride and Norman Reedus are both incredibly strong actors and among the few remaining originals from Season 1.  I was interested in seeing how Daryl and Carol would interact given that they had been separated most of last season. I also thought the flashbacks of Carol here were effective for a change since I was annoyed last season that the show spent 2 whole episodes on the Governor, while not spending any time telling us what happened to Carol after Rick sent her away.

 

While I love Carol (and like Daryl to a lesser extent), I do think I would have enjoyed the episode more had it not just been followed by two weeks of bottle episodes, which I feel this show REALLY overdoes. I don't understand why this show can't handle A and B plots at the same time. Combining the three storylines from the Beth bottle, DC-bound crew, and Carol and Daryl's mission over the last 3 episodes, instead of focusing on one story at a time, would have felt a ton less stagnant. They really put a dent in the great forward momentum of the first 3 episodes by doing these bottle episodes.

 

I also disagree with that idea that Michonne and Maggie's development are being sacrificed for Carol. Carol got little development and barely any screentime during the first 3 seasons and was MIA for most of Season 4, while Maggie and Michonne were front and center from their very first seasons, Seasons 2 and 3, respectively. Melissa McBride is so talented, and I'm glad the showrunners are finally recognizing that, given that it's not everyday that you see a 40+ year-old woman turned into a complicated action hero on TV.

Edited November 17, 2014 by leto

[Armchair Critic]

I think Daryl is still a virgin, Carol will have to make the first move

 

I know we have speculated about that. But how old is Daryl supposed to be? Is the actor wearing his hair like that to be appear younger? If the character is in his 30's still being a virgin is definitely odd.

 

I don't want Daryl romantically with Beth, but I can't see him that way with Carol either. Poor guy, that's not helping him to get laid I know.