S05.E06: Consumed

[RandomBiter]

Re Wearing zombie guts:

 

That said, I do they think they should at least have a couple of "walker dummies" on hand whenever they travel, like scarecrows, but covered in walker blood.  It would make things so much easier.

 

Yep, like Michonne back when we met her. She could travel without too much hassle.

[Zahdii]

The paper and cardboard in the streets has become a visual cue for 'everyone's gone!'.  Just like when someone's talking on the phone and the person they're talking to hangs up abruptly, it used to be common for the person who got hung up on to take the phone from their ear and stare at it for a moment before putting it down.  Nowadays we get a click or a dial tone to clue us in.

[RandomBiter]

The van incident was bizarre. Probably the sort of thing that sounded good when they wrote the script, but when they filmed it they realised it was a little odd. (To digress: check out the video on the filming of it, quite interesting actually, and shows the van falling upside down originally then them needing to reshoot).

 

In reality surely Daryl would have sat on the back of the van whilst Carol very quickly darted in to grab any documents, before leaping out and running as soon as they saw the zombies arriving. Too often they act like the zombies are the 'fast running' type from Dawn of the Dead, in TWD they're pretty slow and I'm sure they could dodge them if needed.

Also, am I the only one who would imagine that downtown Atlanta would still have a couple of hundred residents? D&C were acting as if it was empty bar walkers and the hospital crew.

 

The skyscrapers would surely be suitable for fortification, as floors could be used as buffers to block any zombies trying to get up.

 

Yes there is the issue of lack of power for the elevators but I think I'd prefer to be on the roof of a skyscraper that in the middle of a forest with just some cans and a bit of string to warn me of oncoming death!

 

In cities there would be enough tinned food and bottled water to last a good few years I'd guess. If not in the stores but in the distribution centres close by.

 

Plus (finally), should help come at any point in the form of helicopters... the easiest escape route would be the roof of a skyscraper, and it's the first place those coming to help would look.

[JBody]

Heh. Cardboard. Looks like a recycling plant was napalmed. That's the cue on this show, always: cardboard is for city roads, leaves are for country roads. --ugh John Denver reference. Sorry. There was something else I was going to mention. Hmmm. Oh yeah, like Nashville et al, I totally thought they hit Carol on purpose and did the same to Bethie.

[ghoulina]

Mr. mandolin doesn't have that issue...he has been going on and on about the paper, etc in the streets for years. Ha. Last night I even had him tell me the ZA was here, and I immediately threw any nearby papers in the air to show him the appropriate response.

 

Ha! This is making me laugh so hard. Now I want to start tossing papers in the air and yelling "Zombie Apocalypse, bitches!"

 

Mr. Ghoulina is a nitpicker too (while I'm a bit of a fankwanker). He got really annoyed by Daryl throwing the legal pad he had lit on fire; he said it would have gone out before it landed. 

[nachomama]

I feel so smart! I was thinking the van wouldn't land like that and it was a bad idea to strap yourself in to the front seat. I would have clutched the back of the seat. But I know it's tv, I let it go, LET IT GOOOOOOOO, something something frozen. lalala 

 

It's not like the Goldberg's show where the mom was watching Princess Di's wedding which occurred in 1981 and her kids supposedly sang the Bangles song which didn't come out til 1988, that crap bugs me. 

 

I have a placque that counts the days since Carl has spoken. :D Is Morgan there yet? 

[klarsonovsky]

And now she's floundering a bit, still trying to figure out which Carol she is. Is she still the victim? Is she the punisher? Is she something else?

 

I agree that her reaction to Daryl burning the bodies was also her realizing that being strong doesn't mean being alone. Strength can be found with people too.

 

I thought it was a great sign for Daryl that he picked up the book about abuse. But I was reading elsewhere that the book is designed for people who are CARING for abuse victims, which, if correct, implies that Daryl picked up the book to help him help Carol. And somehow I find that even more touching...

Loved this whole post, but especially these bits. My first impression when I saw the book was also that it was intended for him to try to help Carol.

 

On these "capsule" (or whatever we're calling them) episodes: 

I really like this format. I like the big group eps as well, but too often they come down to everyone standing in a circle making serious faces while Rick explains what they need to do. I like seeing more of how other characters are thinking, feeling and reacting in these circumstances. And I like the suspense and speculation of watching the different threads of the timeline slowly come together. It's like a novel where successive chapters are told from different perspectives: it can be frustrating if you don't care for certain characters, but the format can ultimately inform the entire story in a deeper way than a more straightforward narrative.

 

On ZA sex and Carol/Daryl shipping:

I do not ship C/D and I do not see their relationship as romantic, but in my mind that doesn't necessarily mean that they haven't gotten together a few times over the past few years. Random casual hookups within such a small group could be emotionally dangerous, but physical urges exist and unattached adults who share a close, caring, trusting relationship do occasionally have consensual sex that doesn't turn them into a couple and doesn't jeopardize their friendship. 

 

The whole Daryl is a virgin thing seems to have come from the actor and never really been addressed or even hinted in the show itself. Emotionally stunted and inexperienced in relationships, sure, but virgin doesn't automatically follow (especially for someone that age who spent most of his adulthood with Merle-- there is no way Merle didn't seek out the company of accommodating women and no way he wouldn't expect Daryl to prove his manhood in similar fashion).

 

Sex doesn't always have to be a story point or part of a big romance. I'm fine with just assuming it happens more than we see. In my head, if nowhere else, the fact that C & D are so totally comfortable with one another and lack any real sexual tension actually makes more sense if I assume they have a history of occasional physical release/comfort sex that is only incidental to their deep and caring friendship.

[AngelaHunter]

I have no problem suspending disbelief, but that van really irked me. Here's what really happened when they pushed it off the bridge, since of course it couldn't have landed upright:

 

http://giant.gfycat.com/IllustriousMellowBullmastiff.gif

[Trek]

Ha. Last night I even had him tell me the ZA was here, and I immediately threw any nearby papers in the air to show him the appropriate response. 

 

 

Sounds like you are a fun couple. Now you need to give Glenn and Maggie some tips!

 

The skyscrapers would surely be suitable for fortification, as floors could be used as buffers to block any zombies trying to get up.

 

 

There’s pretty much guaranteed 24hour wind once you get above 8 stories, so attach a wind chime onto the end of a pole and stick it outside a window.  If any walkers get up there, they’ll just follow the sound and go “Raahr argh, raa …KER SPLAT.”  The 9th floor on up are yours and, whilst a straight up barricade policy may result in a huge  walker accumulation downstairs, this walker ‘revolving door’ method will keep the lower levels  relatively free should you want to access them.

[Boilergal]

My take on the hooking up.  I think that the group is like family -  and it would be somewhat incesty to hook up with someone in your family.  If you came in to the family as a couple,  found someone outside of your group and brought them in to your family, or merged with another group, I can see where sexual relationships would be formed.  But for an established group you're going to have emotional support,  love and fierce loyalty -  I don't believe random hookups are going to just pop up.

 

I also think that Daryl sees Carol as more of a mom figure in the group - and he loves her, but that's where it ends.  I'm sure that the abused child/abused woman issues factor into their relationships as well.

[RustbeltWriter]

Looking at the condition of Rick's group, whose last bath was literally a flooded basement full of walkers and the cleanliness and relative safety and comfort of Grady memorial, I'd be hard pressed to choose which group to stay with. The Grady folks definitely have some bad apples but who knows what they would be like once you weeded them out? At least they are trying to build something and not roaming the backwoods of Georgia.

[editorgrrl]

Is Carol supposed to be a smart bad ass or not? You'd think she'd have suggested that she and Daryl use zombi...er, walker goo to disguise themselves. 

 

I feel like if the show overuses that it will become like the sonic screwdriver on Doctor Who.

 

The thing is, you can't introduce something like that on the show and then have the characters ignore it. Especially since it is something that can make a huge difference in their lives.

 

Logically, the characters should wear it every time they leave a safe place. I just don't really want to see the characters constantly wearing guts on their faces. 

 

It is still problematic when you introduce something like this onto a show and not have it thought out more thouroughly. In hindsight, it would have been better had they not introduced it at all.

 

They introduced the walker guts as camouflage in season 1, episode 2, appropriately titled "Guts." In a total of 67 episodes they've used it, what, twice? 

[Watcher0363]

I have no problem suspending disbelief, but that van really irked me. Here's what really happened when they pushed it off the bridge, since of course it couldn't have landed upright:

 

http://giant.gfycat.com/IllustriousMellowBullmastiff.gif

Well as the van started to fall, I thought that van is going to land nose first or flip over to land on its back nose first. Then when it landed on its tires. I went oh yeah! That was the Nadia Comaneci safety feature. A little know feature but a highly effective one.

[Ocean Chick]

For those wondering about the strangely relatively empty Atlanta streets, if you remember back to season 2 they had a few scenes showing the walkers hearing the helicopter and starting to follow it through the streets of Atlanta, gathering ever more walkers as they went.  They ended up being the herd that overran Hershel's farm.  I know the entire walker population of Atlanta didn't all walk out of the city, but a good portion of them did.  And I dare say there were probably a few more migrations since then.

 

And as to Daryl seeing Carol as a "mother figure", Norman has shot down that theory in a couple of interviews.  He stated that Carol is definitely NOT a mother figure, though he refuses to actually define what their relationship is.

[peach]

I would have loved this episode if it had been cut in half.  It was like they had a bunch of extra footage from the other episodes that they didn't use so decided to fill this episode up with it.  I did like the flashback to why she went back to the prison, but showing her watching Karvid burn and burying Lizzie was just a waste of my time.  We all know Carol has done some horrific things, Carol knows she has done some horrific things, and bringing them back is like beating a dead horse.

 

I thought the way it was shot was to show that SHE is thinking of that herself.  All this stuff is what's on her mind, haunting her. 

[BrokenRemote]

It mostly depends on whether or not something happening = good material. In season 3, they made sure to have random moments where Things Happened (like Oscar's death or Axel's death), but I had no real reaction, as it mostly felt like clumsy material based on the idea that there must be a shock value death to keep viewers caring.

I do think this season has been slow, but I don't think it's just for the sake of killing time. I think they're trying to move on from some of the old to prepare for the new. It hasn't always worked, and I'd be happier if I was seeing more of my favorite characters like Michonne and Rick, but I'm really happy that TWD has moved away from the BOOM POW BOOM!!! concept of storytelling.

I also think some of the characters have done far more than the descriptions suggest. Tyreese struggled with his not wanting to take a life, and finally gave in because he wanted to spare his sister pain. Sasha had to deal with losing a man she cared deeply about. Tara had to confess her ties to The Governor, even though it could have cost her her life. She used that acceptance to help reach out to Eugene, which in turn helped spur him to tell the truth about himself.

Is that as much of a big TV moment as Tara blowing a bunch of walkers away? No. But it's something I cared deeply about, and I think it went a long ways to making her character unique, to making her have a valuable role on the canvas.

It's the same reason I liked this week's episode. Technically "nothing happened" with Daryl and Carol, but we got to see their characterizations and internal conflicts, see them as real people struggling in this world. Not Carol the superwoman or Daryl the loyal soldier with the shy smile and the woobie feels. As someone who tends to shrug my way through Daryl's "badass" zombie kills, I was happy to get to see more of who he is underneath the fanon posturing.

I feel like if the show overuses that it will become

like the sonic screwdriver on Doctor Who.

I agree with you. I don't know why the only criteria for a good episode is 'some event I didn't know about was revealed' or. 'something happened'. Because obviously something happens no matter what. I think what people are really aiming for is 'something epic that made me scream and jump out of my seat happened'. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but a character study is an objectively valid type of entertainment. I also don't worship the 'bad-assery' of Daryl, and don't understand why people seem to want everyone to be a badass. (Even getting tired of the term, if I'm honest.). I think there's a place for those who aren't killing machines (hence my distaste of Beth's transformation in Slabtown. I liked that she didn't have to be a badass.)

I'm assuming they don't always rub walker guts on themselves because of the fear of getting sick. We know that while they all carry the virus or whatever it is, a Walker bite will kill. So do you really wanna be smearing their guts on your skin, by your eyes and nose and mouth or possible open cuts any more than is absolutely necessary? (It's bad enough with the splatter they all get already.)

The few times they've done it they've draped something over as much of themselves as possible, I assume for that reason.

I'm also gonna guess that as bad as the place and our heroes must smell, smearing Walker guts on yourself is going to test even the strongest of stomachs. Can't fight if you're busy hurling, so defeating the purpose and rendering you vulnerable.

So it's reserved for those occasions where there is no other option and the risk of not doing it outweighs the risks of doing it.

[Raven1707]

But, how many pages of notes did you take? Or did you take any at all? Slacker... :)

 

I do take notes, although I have a fairly good memory as well. I also transcribe dialogue from time to time. Doesn't everybody?

 

Their entire time spent roaming the streets of Atlanta would have been an appropriate time to use it. None of that "run fast and stay close to buildings and throw fire bombs to distract walkers and hurry hurry hurry and hide behind garbage cans" would have been necessary had they worn Walker Camoflage.

 

Walker camouflage only works properly when you're willing to move at walker speed, which isn't exactly a brisk pace.

[Zahdii]

There’s pretty much guaranteed 24hour wind once you get above 8 stories, so attach a wind chime onto the end of a pole and stick it outside a window.  If any walkers get up there, they’ll just follow the sound and go “Raahr argh, raa …KER SPLAT.”  The 9th floor on up are yours and, whilst a straight up barricade policy may result in a huge  walker accumulation downstairs, this walker ‘revolving door’ method will keep the lower levels  relatively free should you want to access them.

 

Why aren't you on the My Guide to Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse thread?  And when did zombies learn to climb stairs?  At first they couldn't, but now the can.  Are they learning?

[editorgrrl]

Why aren't you on the My Guide to Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse thread?  And when did zombies learn to climb stairs?  At first they couldn't, but now the can.  Are they learning?

 

You can take the latter question to Zombie Talk: Gruesome, Gory and Grabby. I'd noticed that the season 1 walkers were smarter (in the department store, Morgan's wife jiggling the doorknob), but I didn't notice the stairs. (So Dalek!)

[Turtle]

Why aren't you on the My Guide to Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse thread?  And when did zombies learn to climb stairs?  At first they couldn't, but now the can.  Are they learning?

 

I did not realize there was such a thread!  Will now be checking that out.

 

I had the same question about the zombies climbing stairs!  Are they just piling up and then walking over each other, rather than climbing?  Do newer zombies have more physical ability than older ones, or vice versa??

[Ottis]

That Carol ended up being maybe the last pedestrian in human history to get hit by a car didn't help either.

 

 

Ha, that was good. Thanks for the laugh.

 

Daryl killing the mom and daughter wasn't necessraily for Carol. My first thought when they realized who was making the noise inside the room was that someone would have to "kill" those zombies, otherwise you would never know if a noise was them or someone sneaking up on you. Carol didn't have to do it, but someone should have. Glad Daryl did. I know the show had Carol say "thank you," and lots of viewers seem invested in the Carol/Daryl thing, but he did what he had to do. Burning them was actually dumb, because that would leave a smoke signal for others to investigate. So if that was Daryl being sensitive, well, he is smarter when he isn't. 

Edited November 18, 2014 by Ottis

[Raven1707]

Here are the Nielsen ratings to date:

 

10-12-14 “No Sanctuary” 17.3 million
10-19-14 “Strangers” 15.143 million
10-26-14 “Four Walls and a Roof” 13.801 million
11-02-14 “Slabtown” 14.518 million
11-09-14 “Self Help” 13.534 million
11-16-14 “Consumed” 14.068 million

[Ouisch]

The skyscrapers would surely be suitable for fortification, as floors could be used as buffers to block any zombies trying to get up.

 

Yes there is the issue of lack of power for the elevators but I think I'd prefer to be on the roof of a skyscraper that in the middle of a forest with just some cans and a bit of string to warn me of oncoming death!

 

In cities there would be enough tinned food and bottled water to last a good few years I'd guess. If not in the stores but in the distribution centres close by.

 

Plus (finally), should help come at any point in the form of helicopters... the easiest escape route would be the roof of a skyscraper, and it's the first place those coming to help would look.

Could you collect enough bottled water to both drink and bathe with (not that Daryl worries about the latter)? And where would you go to the bathroom? At least if you're in the woods, or on the ground level of some place, you can dash outside and use Nature's toilet. But even if you had a few giant buckets up there on the 24th floor, the stench would get overwhelming pretty quickly. Not every high-rise has windows that open, so emptying your chamber pot from the balcony might not be feasible. (Bathroom access is a major worry of mine in the ZA....I wondered where the Boxcar group at Terminus did their business, too. Surely someone had to relieve themselves during the time they were locked inside.)

 

I, too, thought that the flaming legal pad would extinguish while in the air. Go figure. And what happens when Daryl's Zippo runs out of juice? Hopefully lighter fluid is readily available for scavenging in the ZA. 

[blackwing]

I didn't care for this episode at all.  Even though I like Carol and Daryl, I thought it moved pretty slowly.  And I actually didn't appreciate the cuts in time to flashback scenes, those scenes added pretty much nothing to Carol's story and I found them jarring and confusing.  I was all "hey, how did she get there.... oh wait, this is old."

 

I didn't think they were going to kill Noah, but he's an idiot.  Why didn't he just say "I just escaped from some crazy lady in the hospital, can you help me" from the get go?

[Ocean Chick]

I had the same question about the zombies climbing stairs!

 

 

Season 1 had Morgan's undead wife jiggling the front door - something she could only do if she climbed the front stairs to the porch.

[PunkyMouse]

Could you collect enough bottled water to both drink and bathe with (not that Daryl worries about the latter)? And where would you go to the bathroom? At least if you're in the woods, or on the ground level of some place, you can dash outside and use Nature's toilet. But even if you had a few giant buckets up there on the 24th floor, the stench would get overwhelming pretty quickly. Not every high-rise has windows that open, so emptying your chamber pot from the balcony might not be feasible. (Bathroom access is a major worry of mine in the ZA....I wondered where the Boxcar group at Terminus did their business, too. Surely someone had to relieve themselves during the time they were locked inside.)

 

I, too, thought that the flaming legal pad would extinguish while in the air. Go figure. And what happens when Daryl's Zippo runs out of juice? Hopefully lighter fluid is readily available for scavenging in the ZA. 

 

While I do live in the south, I grew up in NY. I don't know the nature of southern high-rise buildings, but just from my own experiences with apartment buildings I would guess that you'd hoard up cat litter in a bag-lined bucket, do your business, then dump the bag down the garbage chute when it became sufficiently full. I'm guessing that garbage bags and cat litter would not be in short supply since those are not really the kind of things people would scavenge for. Unless they live in the same building. Yes, the garbage chute leads down to the garbage room in the basement and you'd eventually have to go down there to deal with all the bags, but if you'd been dealing with walkers on a regular basis, I'm thinking this would seem like a piece of cake.

 

As for water, I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to jury-rig some kind of contraption for collecting rain water. Sterilizing it might be an issue, but if the PigglyWiggly still has the propane case out front you could break into that and collect up some tanks for a grill, which could be used on the balcony or the roof (if you're not in a 30-floor deal.)

[Trek]

Why aren't you on the My Guide to Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse thread?  And when did zombies learn to climb stairs?  At first they couldn't, but now the can.  Are they learning?

Heh, I have posted on that thread in the past (and will again!) Walkers stumble over rocks but apparently they can climb stairs. They got up many flights of stairs to get to the chained roof-exit door when Merle was handcuffed on the other side (real quick too).

Edited November 18, 2014 by Trek

[Boofish]

This episode would have been perfect if they had ran into Noah earlier and realized they were on the same mission - stop Beth from boring another group to death

 

Also, my heart went pitter-pat when Carol was hit by the car and Daryl first instinct was to go in for the kill but backed off when he heard they could help her. I'm sure he's thinking "give her food and medicine then I  will come and put a bow in your azz"

[NoWillToResist]

 

I already knew Carol was an abused wife, I didn't need to see her and Daryl in the shelter.

 

One thing this implied to me is that Carol had no one else to run to; no friends or family to take her in. Certainly explains to me a bit better WHY she stuck with him for so long.

 

I was puzzled by Carol asking Daryl why he hasn't asked her what happened when she met up with Tyreese, Mika and Lizzie; when would Daryl have found out that Carol met up with those three? Tyreese had said he didn't want others knowing about the girls, so surely Tyreese never told anyone that he escaped the prison with them. Did Carol start telling Daryl about what had happened pre-Grove and then chickened out and couldn't go on? Why did she ask him about him NOT questioning her? Is she trying to determine if he wants to know? Is she not wanting to tell anyone until they are ready to hear such a terrible story? Is she hoping to be forgiven or is she hoping/expected to be condemned?

[AngelaHunter]

I'm trying to understand how Carol killed two people at the prison (I can't bear to say their names again and yes, I know they were sick), and was able to shoot a little girl in the head, yet was willing to force/nag Daryl to save Noah, a total stranger who had no problem stealing their weapons and leaving them to die as unarmed(as far as he knew) zombie chow.

[NoWillToResist]

I'm trying to understand how Carol killed two people at the prison (I can't bear to say their names again and yes, I know they were sick), and was able to shoot a little girl in the head, yet was willing to force/nag Daryl to save Noah, a total stranger who had no problem stealing their weapons and leaving them to die as unarmed(as far as he knew) zombie chow.

 

Well, the sick people were theoretically a threat to everyone's safety (shh, just go with it ;)), and Lizzie was a danger to everyone's safety due to her unusual opinions about walkers. In contrast, Noah was a scared, but mostly decent kid. Sure he stole their main weapons but he was desperate. He didn't hurt them even though he could have. Carol, perhaps better than most, knows what it's like to make bad choices when you feel there aren't many options.

[Bec]

Given that this show has probably had at least 100 characters whose names we learned, many of whom stuck around for a bit, a list of a dozen people who have had sex isn't really that high.

Had there been a hundred characters? Maybe we need a "whodunnit" chart of "done it onscreen", "heavily implied did it", "probably totally did it".

 

But I'm too lazy.

 

Clearly my "who for sure had sex on the show" list doesn't cover everyone. None of us expect that the show showed us everything everyone did. It's kind of like not showing them going to the bathroom.

 

It's also perfectly reasonable that not everyone is having sex at all times. For some of them there are no opportunities (who is Carl going to do it with? All the girls his age are dead). And more than one of them are reluctant because they want to avoid the pain of getting that close to people then losing them (such is the case with Michonne and with Carol).

 

On some level I think "avoiding pain" is where Rick is at, too, remember the last time he had sex he (or maybe Shane) impregnated his wife which ended up killing her, and her death nearly drove him over the edge (he's probably still not totally over it). That's gotta do a number on a person's libido.

 

The people who aren't having sex each have their own perfectly sound reasons for not doing it, and since Rick's group is not a bunch of rapists like Dawn's group, makes sense that they respect each other's boundaries.

 

I think that the group is like family -  and it would be somewhat incesty to hook up with someone in your family.

I get a family vibe from our group, too. I can see that as an emotional obstacle to keep them from hooking up with each other.

 

Understandably some fans would like to see some characters hook up, but let's not forget how dreary the whole Rick/Lori/Shane saga has been. Even Maggie/Glenn is kind of dreary. This show is not good at this kind of thing. Maybe it's just as well that the show is just leaving the hookups to our imaginations for the most part now. (I could have lived without seeing Abraham/Rosita, dim as the lighting was.)

 

And as to Daryl seeing Carol as a "mother figure", Norman has shot down that theory in a couple of interviews

I took that post to mean Daryl see her as "a mother", the person most like a matriarch in the group, the one with some authority who takes care of everyone, not that he sees her as "his mother".

[Mu Shu]

The thing is, you can't introduce something like that on the show and then have the characters ignore it. Especially since it is something that can make a huge difference in their lives.

I would skin me out a walker as often as needed and wear that shit like a Diane Von Furstenberg wrap dress.  

[AngelaHunter]

Noah was a scared, but mostly decent kid. Sure he stole their main weapons but he was desperate.

 

We know that, but I don't how Carol discerned his decency during the time he was threatening her and Daryl and stealing from them what they needed to stay alive.  I know they had to save him so he could reveal the whereabouts of Beth, but that doesn't make any more logical to me.

[leto]

We know that, but I don't how Carol discerned his decency during the time he was threatening her and Daryl and stealing from them what they needed to stay alive.  I know they had to save him so he could reveal the whereabouts of Beth, but that doesn't make any more logical to me.

In the "making of" video that AMC put out for this episode, one of the producers, Denise Huth says that Carol's motivation in helping Noah was about saving Daryl at that moment. She basically didn't want Daryl to turn into the kind of guy who would leave some kid (that's how Denise referred to Noah) who was begging for help. So that's what the scene was supposed to be, but as is often the case with the writing on the show, that wasn't clear at all,

[NoWillToResist]

We know that, but I don't how Carol discerned his decency during the time he was threatening her and Daryl and stealing from them what they needed to stay alive.  I know they had to save him so he could reveal the whereabouts of Beth, but that doesn't make any more logical to me.

 

I think it may simply be that, in comparison to the types of people they've come across in the past, Noah IS decent. Yes, the bar has been set at a record low, but honestly, his entire attitude was light years' away from 'predator/aggressor' it was almost laughable. Carol and Daryl have faced bad people before and IMO it was clear that Noah was not of that ilk. He took their weapons, APOLOGIZED, said they were tough and that he was confident they'd make it without the weapons he just took, and then released some walkers on them to buy him some time. He didn't make threats, he didn't leer, he didn't mock, he didn't gloat, he didn't harm them and he didn't take everything they had. Carol was pragmatic enough to want to clip him to get their shit back (after all, they need those weapons to save Beth), but she had no interest in leaving him to the fate she hand-delivered to Mary back at Terminus...

Edited November 19, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Pete Martell]

 

I didn't think they were going to kill Noah, but he's an idiot.  Why didn't he just say "I just escaped from some crazy lady in the hospital, can you help me" from the get go?

 

He was likely assuming no one could ever help him and he just had to do whatever he could for himself. 

[maplebrew]

The paper and cardboard in the streets has become a visual cue for 'everyone's gone!'.

 

 

It's true. A large human population is required to keep paper products from flying out of home and office windows. Either that, or zombies litter. 

[Pete Martell]

Well, the sick people were theoretically a threat to everyone's safety (shh, just go with it ;)), and Lizzie was a danger to everyone's safety due to her unusual opinions about walkers. In contrast, Noah was a scared, but mostly decent kid. Sure he stole their main weapons but he was desperate. He didn't hurt them even though he could have. Carol, perhaps better than most, knows what it's like to make bad choices when you feel there aren't many options.

 

I agree. The easiest, coldest thing to do would have been leaving Noah to die. Carol was starting to question this mindset. 

In the "making of" video that AMC put out for this episode, one of the producers, Denise Huth says that Carol's motivation in helping Noah was about saving Daryl at that moment. She basically didn't want Daryl to turn into the kind of guy who would leave some kid (that's how Denise referred to Noah) who was begging for help. So that's what the scene was supposed to be, but as is often the case with the writing on the show, that wasn't clear at all,

 

I think that was a big part of it, but I don't think that was the only reason. I do think she wanted to stop Daryl from shutting down, but I think she also realized Noah didn't deserve to die. 

[Yolapukka]

 

Clearly my "who for sure had sex on the show" list doesn't cover everyone. None of us expect that the show showed us everything everyone did. It's kind of like not showing them going to the bathroom.

 

 

I tend to think that any hook-up that isn't pertinent to the plot or ongoing character relationships isn't going to be shown so, AFAIC there has been lotsofsex during the zombie apocalypse.

[AngelaHunter]

He took their weapons, APOLOGIZED, said they were tough and that he was confident they'd make it without the weapons he just took, and then released some walkers on them to buy him some time.

 

Apologizing while stealing someone's life-sustaining equipment and then releasing zombies to attack them on top of it doesn't say "decency" to me, but that's JMO, so we can agree to disagree on that topic.

[Bec]

I still like Noah even though he took Daryl's crossbow (which is as much of a no-no as taking Michonne's katana). It was all just a hilarious misunderstanding! Bygones!

[Zanne]

It's true. A large human population is required to keep paper products from flying out of home and office windows. Either that, or zombies litter. 

 

Without electricity, internet usage was impossible and therefore googling for recent news was impossible. The zombies had to return to the days of disseminating information via newspaper and periodical, leading to an increase in paper litter.

[NoWillToResist]

Apologizing while stealing someone's life-sustaining equipment and then releasing zombies to attack them on top of it doesn't say "decency" to me.

 

Well, yes, that is of course true, but in comparison to the Governor, the Claimers, and the Termites, I think Noah falls into the 'generally decent' category. Granted, that's really not saying a whole hell of a lot, but standards have been lowered. ;)

 

I would love to be a fly on the wall of that truck heading to the church though. Heh. Will Daryl just glower in silence the entire way back or will he pump Noah for details in preparation for 'rescue the womenfolk v. 2.0'? :)

[Bruinsfan]

The paper and cardboard in the streets has become a visual cue for 'everyone's gone!'

I don't know about the cardboard, but I'd think all those downtown office buildings would become huge sources of paper trash once their windows started breaking or falling out. People sure didn't have time to neatly file everything away in cabinets during the zombie apocalypse.

[la11]

Okay, I've watched the episode twice and still haven't seen the tank.  Can someone tell me approximately where in the episode it's seen?

The tank is at 17:24.

[TexasChic]

Loved this episode. Sorry, that's all I've got right now. I met Stephen King at a book signing this past weekend and I'm still recovering.

[Boofish]

I don't even bother trying to explain or suspend belief. It's a show about a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE; I think you are supposed to leave common sense and logic at the door

Season 1 zombies not only climbed stairs and fences they also knew to pick up a brick to break glass. So falling from a bridge in a van landing upright and walking away seems logical to me

[queenanne]

Well, yes, that is of course true, but in comparison to the Governor, the Claimers, and the Termites, I think Noah falls into the 'generally decent' category. Granted, that's really not saying a whole hell of a lot, but standards have been lowered. ;)

 

 

You mean because Noah didn't Evil-Overlord exposition-out his intentions, complete with plenty of gloating about how he's hurt and inconvenienced people and would do so again in a heartbeat? ;)

[RedheadZombie]

I really hope she and Daryl never ever ever ever hook up. I do like their relationship as it is. Not every spark of chemistry between 2 actors or characters has to flame on into full blown shippiness (then again, I might be biased, since I do worship at the Church of Shippers Ruin EVERYTHING).

 

And this may be why they avoid writing casual hookups.  The shipping starts, and they'll be written into a corner.  Even worse, have a character have sex with more than one partner over time.  The slut accusations start up (if they're a woman, see Lori), and it can veer into soap opera land.  Look at the Carol versus Beth issue, and this when Daryl hasn't even made a move on either woman.

 

Plus (finally), should help come at any point in the form of helicopters... the easiest escape route would be the roof of a skyscraper, and it's the first place those coming to help would look.

 

This brings up a good question.  With all their experience with bad people, would they even trust help in the form of a helicopter?  I think the old Rick would have, but he's learned to be distrusting and cynical.  Abraham would possibly trust help in the form of the military, but he may have seen things like the gunning down of the non-infected by the government, and be just as jaded.  Daryl was no fan of the government pre-ZA, and he's likely to follow Rick's lead.

 

I just realized something.  When they took off in the car, Daryl said Rick is probably wondering where they are.  Not the group, just Rick.

 

Something I remain confused by - in a Carol flashback, they showed the scene in the church where she looks at the closed door.  I didn't understand the first time either.

 

Edited to fix wonky formatting.

Edited November 19, 2014 by RedheadZombie