Past Seasons

[ryebread]

I think the SUR staff probably don't work the catering gigs on the regular.  Or they would know that it is part of the job to clean up.  They were likely brought to that party only for the exposure.

 

At the restaurant, as servers, they probably aren't responsible for much - beyond serving. And screwing each other.  Maybe they wipe some glasses, fill the salt and pepper shakers.  But the cleaning up and grunt work I'm sure is left for the bus persons.

Edited December 30, 2014 by ryebread

[vrocotamy]

Reading the above posts about Brandi, Yolanda, and Joyce...I see more clearly where the antagonism between the former two (and production) against Joyce came from. The original production plan, endorsed by Brandi and Yolanda, may have been for Joyce to help bring down Lisa. Joyce didn't play ball, and the above lunch never aired. Brandi and Yolanda soured on Joyce. Remember that cocktail hour, very early in S4, where Brandi disavowed speaking negatively of Lisa to Joyce? Joyce was referencing a storyline that had since been dumped by producers, or that Brandi decided to resist. From then on, producers basically used Joyce as Brandi's punching bag, in order to make Brandi look bad. That was the only purpose they gave her. They also allowed Yo to be horribly passive-aggro with her and overtly nasty at the reunion without payback.

I think Joyce was not a good fit for the show, which I mean as a compliment. She's sane and nice and wasn't willing to let production walk all over her, take shit, not speak her mind, or be a puppet, which didn't endear her to TPTB. Andy definitely let Brandi's racism slide at the reunion. Also, Yo has basically been handled with kid gloves in her reunions. No calling her out for bitchiness to Joyce or the Ken accusations, and no one picked up on Kim's (probably accurate) observation that she uses ESL or "not understanding' to lie.

[JAYJAY1979]

I know Lisa V doing her question portion to Andy did kind of call him out on what he wrote about Joyce but he kept dodging the question and didn't answer it.. when he admitted not portraying Carleton fairly on the show..lisa said both of them weren't given fair shakes.

I do think Lisa v ended up liking Joyce

[vrocotamy]

Just skimmed through a Radar Online article summarizing all of the nominal revelations Andy makes in his latest book about various Housewives. None of the disclosures were surprising in the least (Alexis or Gretchen from the OC cried and argued when they received word of their termination, etc). But Andy's account of the Beverly Hills season 4 reunion does convince me a little bit more (after his shock-and-horror routine over Porsha Williams' outburst) that he is racist in a casual/institutional way. I guess he was so "fed up" with Joyce's combativeness toward Yolanda that he almost kicked her off of the set. Why does it strike me as a sad inevitability that the woman of color on this show is positioned as the aggressor/problem after enduring one castmate's repeated bigotry, her cohort's apologism, and Yo"s own disrespectful behavior (sitting with your back to someone is a deliberate and antagonistic gesture)?

I wouldn't go so far as to call Andy racist, although positioning the woman of color as the aggressor is redolent of racist notions. I think the beef Andy and TPTB had with Joyce probably came more from her, in their minds, trying to go against script and control how she was portrayed when the script and her portrayal conflicted with her beliefs, not her race/ethnicity. Yolanda was being aggressive to Joyce and Joyce responded, which is typical for reunions, but Yolanda was given the upper hand unfairly IMO.

Lisa and Joyce did seem to actually like each other. For what it's worth, I think Lisa saw Joyce as the first person on the show as or more intelligent than her, and decided it was best to make friends.

[Chrissytd]

The very first episode is airing today at 4.

[motorcitymom65]

I wouldn't go so far as to call Andy racist, although positioning the woman of color as the aggressor is redolent of racist notions. I think the beef Andy and TPTB had with Joyce probably came more from her, in their minds, trying to go against script and control how she was portrayed when the script and her portrayal conflicted with her beliefs, not her race/ethnicity. Yolanda was being aggressive to Joyce and Joyce responded, which is typical for reunions, but Yolanda was given the upper hand unfairly IMO.

Lisa and Joyce did seem to actually like each other. For what it's worth, I think Lisa saw Joyce as the first person on the show as or more intelligent than her, and decided it was best to make friends.

There was much talk last season about 3 or 4 episodes in about some of the things Joyce was saying in the press.  She was revealing some of the things vrocotamy mentions above, but also much more. She talked about having lunch with Yo, and about how Yo would call "cut" because she wanted filming to stop when she didn't like what was being discussed. She deliciously broke the 4th wall about many things and scenes that were cut out to explain why she addressed the hair flipping episode with Lisa (which seemed strange without any context). 

 

The discussion on TWoP at the time was that no one at Bravo would be happy about her doing this.  She was new and the season had only just begun. Her admitting that Yo had the power to stop filming when she wanted something to be "off camera" was interesting and not something that Bravo would want folks yapping about freely. Many folks speculated at the time that she was not a person who would be asked back and that she had more than likely pissed lots of folks off. I think that ended up being the case and this was a lot of the reason that Andy was just done with her. 

[KFC]

I also seem to recall the flap over her tagline, and how her defense was "the producers made me say it!"

 

Which might very well have been true, but that's never the smartest line of defense when you appear on a reality show. Especially not if you're a newcomer trying to solidify your position on the show. Plus it was sort of damning already when the other cast members came to the show's defense (naturally) and said something about how no one is forced to say anything they don't want to for the taglines.

 

Her "problem" (aka what got her fired) was basically the exact opposite of Carlton, who I think was probably all too accommodating with the producers, whereas Joyce probably should have been more agreeable and kept quiet.

[lunastartron]

I wouldn't go so far as to call Andy racist, although positioning the woman of color as the aggressor is redolent of racist notions. I think the beef Andy and TPTB had with Joyce probably came more from her, in their minds, trying to go against script and control how she was portrayed when the script and her portrayal conflicted with her beliefs, not her race/ethnicity. Yolanda was being aggressive to Joyce and Joyce responded, which is typical for reunions, but Yolanda was given the upper hand unfairly IMO.

Lisa and Joyce did seem to actually like each other. For what it's worth, I think Lisa saw Joyce as the first person on the show as or more intelligent than her, and decided it was best to make friends.

 

When I wrote that post, I'd forgotten that Andy actually can't be racist. I mean, he fucks black dudes (TM Brandi Glanville).

 

In all seriousness, "redolent of racist notions" is basically what I meant by "racist in an institutional way."

 

Over the years, Andy has pretty firmly established himself as a moral hypocrite from my perspective. Usually, this manifests in his selective posturing over matters of sexuality (his clumsy and stupid attempt to police Yolanda's use of "choice"/"choose" was probably the only occasion on which I'll ever sympathize with her perspective more than that of whomever her opponent might be).

 

Last spring and summer, though, really underlined a really disturbing pattern vis-a-vis the manner in which the minority women on these programs are both treated and portrayed. After the over the top pearl-clutching with which he reacted to Porsha's hair-pulling, he more or less yawned a couple of weeks later when Ramona actually used a weapon against a cast mate in New York.  The consistent, sustained focus by Brandi on Joyce's racial background was effectively whitewashed come reunion as a single off-color remark. And after all of the outbursts that have transpired at reunions over the lifetime of the franchise - from Teresa assaulting Andy himself to Tamra, Kelly, and others storming off set - it's really weird and structurally problematic when it comes to questions of race that Andy would single out Joyce (who was pretty much above reproach in terms of manners and diplomacy) as someone he almost told to leave. In the same vein, the recent reports that alcohol has been forbidden at the forthcoming Atlanta reunion are troubling for a variety of reasons.

 

I do agree that Joyce's decision to demolish the fourth wall probably infuriated production. It seemed like she was pretty much over being involved with the series by reunion time, so I wouldn't be surprised if she consciously supplied Andy and Co. with an impetus to terminate her contract.

[zoeysmom]

I think one thing that worked against Joyce was her husband was a producer of a show.  A show on NBC no less that Joyce starred in.  I never understood why Joyce didn't invite the other ladies to the premiere-it was the night before the dress event at Lisa's-maybe a case of envy by the others?  The second thing that worked against her was her father took ill and died and she missed a number of events.  Kind of the same thing that happened to Marissa Zanuck.

 

Joyce had a few missteps but I think she was treated so crappy by Brandi, Lisa, Carlton and Yolanda, initially that bringing her back she would have probably taken away from the Lisa/Brandi feud. Lisa had to be able to say the returning HW had all ganged up on her and it just wasn't the case with Joyce. I know Kyle said publicly she wanted Joyce back-never heard the same sentiments from Lisa.  Lisa did invite Joyce and Carlton to the opening of PUMP so perhaps she was holding out hope for Joyce.

 

I thought it was terrible that Andy claimed he almost had to remove Joyce from the Reunion because of her interrupting Yolanda.  First off they stuck her in a cheap chopped off pageant gown, sat her at the end and did not let her finish her sentences.  I think Joyce would have been a much better choice than say Kim to return.  With Joyce you do have younger children and most certainly a likeable husband.  I got the impression Joyce wasn't one of Andy's favorites when his idea of who to pair with her on WWHL was Scheana.  If Andy likes you, as he does Brandi she would get a Willie Geist, Anderson Cooper or Mark Consuelos.  So her appearance essentially became all about Brandi.

[PhilMarlowe2]

This season has made me realize why Joyce and Carlton never really gelled with the show:

 

1) Neither of them had real existing relationships with other cast members before coming onto the show. So, they were forced into the group from the very beginning.

 

2) They didn't like each other. The lack of a bond between the new women just made an already divided cast feel even more divided.

 

3) They were both annoying.

 

Seeing Lisa and Eileen, both with established relationships with the cast, come in and bond has really given a life to the show that it just didn't have last year.

[Almost 3000]

and...

4) neither had great real estate and Joyce took the girls to two resorts that looked worn and dated. 

[Avaleigh]

The upcoming episode is taking me back to two parties--Game Night and Malibu Beach Party From Hell. Remember when Brandi grabbed Kyle's hand or arm and claimed that it was because Kyle touched her with her wagging finger? (At the time I didn't think that Kyle touched her but she did wag that finger. We know Kyle likes to do that.)

 

Also, it goes by so fast but don't Kyle and Brandi both seem like they might be intoxicated in the upcoming episode (s5e10)? I know the whole issue is over Kim going back to her old tricks but I find it interesting that there weren't as many comments made back then about how wasted Kyle and Brandi were during Game Night in season 2. It's easy to forget because Kim was so crazy, loaded and out of control that night, but Brandi and Kyle were both totally drunk and several of the women commented about how filming took hours (partially due to how late Kim was) and that there wasn't really any food. I know Kyle was being manhandled by Brandi but she still seemed kind of unsteady and just the way she was following Brandi made me think that she wasn't using her best judgement. 

 

Will it be much ado about nothing wrt Kim? You'd think that she'd feature more in the TV spots for the episode since the argument seems like it's going to be about her but Kyle and Brandi seem to be the focus. I wonder what specifically will be off about Kim's behavior this time around. She almost always seems off to me so I'm assuming it's something pretty bad, something that just can't be ignored and hopefully won't be blamed on Kim supposedly taking a fucking water pill as she wanted us to believe one or two seasons ago. 

[jinjer]

The upcoming episode is taking me back to two parties--Game Night and Malibu Beach Party From Hell. Remember when Brandi grabbed Kyle's hand or arm and claimed that it was because Kyle touched her with her wagging finger? (At the time I didn't think that Kyle touched her but she did wag that finger. We know Kyle likes to do that.)

 

Also, it goes by so fast but don't Kyle and Brandi both seem like they might be intoxicated in the upcoming episode (s5e10)? I know the whole issue is over Kim going back to her old tricks but I find it interesting that there weren't as many comments made back then about how wasted Kyle and Brandi were during Game Night in season 2. It's easy to forget because Kim was so crazy, loaded and out of control that night, but Brandi and Kyle were both totally drunk and several of the women commented about how filming took hours (partially due to how late Kim was) and that there wasn't really any food. I know Kyle was being manhandled by Brandi but she still seemed kind of unsteady and just the way she was following Brandi made me think that she wasn't using her best judgement. 

 

Will it be much ado about nothing wrt Kim? You'd think that she'd feature more in the TV spots for the episode since the argument seems like it's going to be about her but Kyle and Brandi seem to be the focus. I wonder what specifically will be off about Kim's behavior this time around. She almost always seems off to me so I'm assuming it's something pretty bad, something that just can't be ignored and hopefully won't be blamed on Kim supposedly taking a fucking water pill as she wanted us to believe one or two seasons ago. 

Bravo loves to liquor these women up and set them free and let the hilarity* ensue.

 

Kyle is handsy and loves to point that finger - she had no problem running up and grabbing the woman was was talking very closely to Mauricio Season 1 at the White Party or going at Kim in the Limo season 1.

 

Problem is, no one is going to push by Brandi without getting shoved herself.  Someone mentioned that Brandi and Kyle got handsy with each other in Malibu but I don't remember that.  I remember Brandi throwing Taylor out and them trying to restrain Taylor.  But they were drunk at that party too.

 

Maybe next week is foreshadowing about Amsterdam.  But if it is true that they have a wine pairing and Kim goes, then that's not an optimal event for a recovering alcoholic. The least the could do is have a nonalcoholic suggestion for each food too.  

Edited January 16, 2015 by jinjer

[Avaleigh]

Brandi and Kyle definitely had a handsy moment in Malibu during season 2. Kyle puts her finger in Brandi's face, Brandi claims that Kyle touched her or poked her with the finger so Brandi grabbed Kyle's arm to get it out of her face. Kyle then says "Get your fucking hand off of me, you sicko!" and I remember it because Bravo didn't bleep out the word fucking. It was hard to hear because the other women were talking and Taylor was shrieking and crying but it definitely happened. Then Kyle tells Brandi that Brandi will be sorry if she ever puts her hands on her again. 

 

That episode was completely nuts and had a few classic moments including drunk and upset Taylor lighting the wrong end of her cigarette in the limo. 

[jinjer]

Oh the pointy fingers of the Richards sisters!  Someone is going to bite that finger off one day!

 

Good memories - the Malibu beach party - I forgot Taylor smoking the wrong end of the cigarette! 

[Fuzzysox]

According to Radar on line *take with a huge grain of salt* Adrienne has lost her boytoy Jake to Paris Hilton. Man that's better then a bad soap opera.

 

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/01/adrienne-maloof-jacob-busch-break-up-cheating-allegations/

[cooksdelight]

It was such weird timing to see Camille last night on the show as part of the scavenger hunt, then to see her this morning on a re-run of Frasier. She was dressed as Eve in a nude bodystocking with long blonde wig, at a Halloween costume party at Niles' apartment. Frasier had the hots for her, so it was fun to watch that little scene.

[Avaleigh]

In the First Look thread Umbelina made a comment about how next season it'll be somebody else's shit hitting the fan and to me this was kind of a nod to a popularly held thought that every season there is a wife who is going to get the so-called bad edit.

 

I think for some people (not speaking for you Umbelina just speaking generally now) that this is essentially the explanation for why we're seeing Brandi and Kim the way that we are this season. Much was made of the fact that there are pictures of Brandi smiling at Lisa's birthday party and that it was only editing that made it appear as though Brandi wasn't having a good time--Brandi's words were what made it seem like she wasn't having a good time in my opinion. That goes back to Bethenny's old comment about how they can't edit what you don't give them. Brandi has been giving editors disgusting trash all season long so to me it isn't at all surprising that she's being edited to look like trash--they're working with what she's giving them.

 

I feel the same is true for Kim. Kim wants to blame the other women when the other women are working with what Kim is giving them. I've even seen comments suggesting that Bravo should never have aired footage of Kim being under the influence and to me this is simply placing the responsibility for Kim's behavior on people other than Kim.

 

Kyle's flaws have been on display every single season. For me personally I haven't seen a "good" or "bad" edit of her for any particular season. Take something like Palm Springs for example. In that episode Kyle was being nice and normal but she comes across that way even more so because of the way Brandi, Lisa, Yolanda, etc are behaving towards Joyce. 

 

Some people say that Lisa got a bad edit last season. I think that Lisa had to suffer the consequences of some of her choices and comments. Laughing with the other women as she makes the dig about Mauricio saying that they're going to bond real quick, giggling like an idiot as Brandi insults Joyce, snarking about Kyle not having anything to offer the Beverly Hills Chamber of Commerce, etc. Lisa did that to herself. Again, production works with what the women give them. 

 

The point of me saying all this is that I don't think that "bad" editing is the reason for why we're seeing both Kim and Brandi in such a negative light this season. They've done this to themselves if they're wondering why they're feeling the heat from viewers in addition to feeling it from their cast mates. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by Avaleigh

[FozzyBear]

In the First Look thread Umbelina made a comment about how next season it'll be somebody else's shit hitting the fan and to me this was kind of a nod to a popularly held thought that every season there is a wife who is going to get the so-called bad edit.

I think for some people (not speaking for you Umbelina just speaking generally now) that this is essentially the explanation for why we're seeing Brandi and Kim the way that we are this season. Much was made of the fact that there are pictures of Brandi smiling at Lisa's birthday party and that it was only editing that made it appear as though Brandi wasn't having a good time--Brandi's words were what made it seem like she wasn't having a good time in my opinion. That goes back to Bethenny's old comment about how they can't edit what you don't give them. Brandi has been giving editors disgusting trash all season long so to me it isn't at all surprising that she's being edited to look like trash--they're working with what she's giving them.

I feel the same is true for Kim. Kim wants to blame the other women when the other women are working with what Kim is giving them. I've even seen comments suggesting that Bravo should never have aired footage of Kim being under the influence and to me this is simply placing the responsibility for Kim's behavior on people other than Kim.

Kyle's flaws have been on display every single season. For me personally I haven't seen a "good" or "bad" edit of her for any particular season. Take something like Palm Springs for example. In that episode Kyle was being nice and normal but she comes across that way even more so because of the way Brandi, Lisa, Yolanda, etc are behaving towards Joyce.

Some people say that Lisa got a bad edit last season. I think that Lisa had to suffer the consequences of some of her choices and comments. Laughing with the other women as she makes the dig about Mauricio saying that they're going to bond real quick, giggling like an idiot as Brandi insults Joyce, snarking about Kyle not having anything to offer the Beverly Hills Chamber of Commerce, etc. Lisa did that to herself. Again, production works with what the women give them.

The point of me saying all this is that I don't think that "bad" editing is the reason for why we're seeing both Kim and Brandi in such a negative light this season. They've done this to themselves if they're wondering why they're feeling the heat from viewers in addition to feeling it from their cast mates.

I have a tendency to agree. I think you illustrate your point very well with Kyle. Kyle's "edit" so to speak, has been fairly consistent. Yet some people love her and some people want to throw something at the TV everytime they see her face (I'll admit to being in the latter category. A day without telling Kyle to shut up is like a day without sunshine). Why? Because like about 90% of the people that agree to do this show, Kyle is a delusional and self-centered and lacks self-awareness. I don't mean to pick on her, they're all like that! It's really a matter of narssacistic degree and the particulars of how it presents itself. Cast members who do have some self awareness have a tendency not to last that long (Joyce BH, Quinn OC, Whatshername from ATL S1) because their natural instinct is to be on their best behavior and good behavior doesn't cause Amsterdam Slapfest.

[Umbelina]

Kim had ONE bad night.  Forget the explanation for it for just a moment.

 

They have dragged that night into every single subsequent episode.  The endless and constant discussion of it has bored me silly.   I think we COULD have seen Kim having fun and all of them enjoying Amsterdam, instead we got the obviously planned fake-intervention to drag it all up again. 

 

I absolutely understand that Kim saw that, and didn't want to put up with it AGAIN.  This is not the place for it, they aren't qualified, and their motivations are deeply suspect.  I don't for a single minute believe they were trying to "help" Kim, they were after story, and drama, and whatever other motivations they had to make Kim's problems the entire focus of the show.  (Kyle's anger and redemption, Brandi being overwhelmed by Kim's clinging, Lipsa sticking up for her bestie Kyle, Eileen wanting to earn her $750 K, Lisa being thrilled to get back at Kim for her horribleness to Ken last season, WHAT THE FUCK EVER.)

 

Kim seemed fine to me in the other episodes, yes, the producers had her drag Brandi to the gay party, which, hello!  Totally producer driven, and yes, Brandi was expected to show up for their damn "drama" and furthermore, I believe Kyle probably not only knew that but capitalized on it with her OTT reaction.  Set up.  Amsterdam?  Yes, Kim pointed out that Kyle always has made a huge deal about Kim being late (deserved) and was bitchy about Kyle keeping them all waiting.  She certainly seemed totally sober though, just bitchy from Lipsa AGAIN bringing up her "issues" on the damn plane, and maybe jet lagged.  Frankly, I think the go-to is bitch with Kim, and with Kyle, who hides it better.

 

So, the producers forced this damn boring, and sad, and tragic story down our throats all season long, and IMO, the show has suffered for it.  BUT, they are getting the reaction they wanted, lots of people talking about how horrible Brandi is, how wonderful Kyle is, and how awful Kim is, as well as two newbies that made their bones and will be asked back.  At the expense of Kim being torn to shreds each episode.

 

Do the producers hate Kim because she's been a pain in their asses for years?  Maybe.  Frankly, I'd prefer that explanation to "they shameless exploited Kim's issues for press, for story, and to redeem Kyle."

 

I don't like ANY of these women.  There are some things I do like about all of them, and many things I dislike.  I do like to look at how stories are shaped, and told, and examine the process, and the edit.

[MatildaMoody]

I don't agree that Kim had one bad night. If that were the case, she would not have been slurring and then claimed not to hear what Brandi said about Mauricio not wanting Kyle at Kyle's Gay Mixer. She would not have had difficulty remembering which day it was that Kyle came to visit her. Brandi herself has said that Kim has not been sober. So this wasn't one bad night being brought up over and over again. LisaR brought up her specific experience in the limo ride to the other women and all of the women point to Kim's behavior at Poker Night. But, it wasn't just that isolated experience, that experience just happened to be the one that ALL but LisaV shared. But there were experiences after Poker Night unless either Kim or Brandi is lying. Which, they both are liars so either Kim was so out of it that she really didn't hear what Brandi said about Mauricio at the mixer, or she heard and lied about it to deflect. Either Kim has been sober except for that one pill and Brandi is lying about her not being sober, or Kim has not been sober and her behavior has been noticed by the other women. Either way, Kim has not been sober for the past three years by her own admission and the deflecting being done by her BFF.

[BlackMamba]

I know Lisa V doing her question portion to Andy did kind of call him out on what he wrote about Joyce but he kept dodging the question and didn't answer it.. when he admitted not portraying Carleton fairly on the show..lisa said both of them weren't given fair shakes.

I do think Lisa v ended up liking Joyce

 

Carlton would had been a good villain had not been for all the 'witchypoo' nonsense and wicca stuff.  She was too cartoonish!  But I believe she brought a lot of it on herself how strong she came on with her hate towards Kyle.  She didn't play her cards right and she had to go. 

 

 

As for Joyce, Andy knows damn well why he got rid of her.  IMO, she was breaking the 4th wall a lot an interviews.  Andy don't like the wives do that or attempts reveal those "secrets."  I liked when "The Dream Team" tried coming for her at that dinner at SUR she didn't back down to them she even challenged Lisa V when LVP kept trying to make excuses for Brandi's bullshit.  She even was the one that smartly ratted out Brandi to LVP that she was going to turn on her, but LVP didn't want to believe her pet, truth cannon would ever until she ended doing so in Puerto Rico.  Now LVP and Joyce are friends, even LVP follows her on Twitter, and she doesn't follow many people on Twitter. 

 

Edited March 17, 2015 by BlackMamba

[Avaleigh]

Kim had ONE bad night.  Forget the explanation for it for just a moment.

 

They have dragged that night into every single subsequent episode.  The endless and constant discussion of it has bored me silly.   I think we COULD have seen Kim having fun and all of them enjoying Amsterdam, instead we got the obviously planned fake-intervention to drag it all up again.

I keep seeing you say this Umbelina, but the evidence on the show speaks to the contrary. Kim had a bad night at Eileen's, she had a bad night at Kyle's mixer, she seemed out of it and defiant during the blah, blah, blah conversation, she was in a rage for no reason at the airport, and this isn't getting into the nastiness on the plane or once they leave the airport.

 

I know you want to give Kim the benefit of the doubt and assume that she would have been fun on vacation if neither woman had dared to mention her addiction but Kim's history when she's been on vacation on this show doesn't really support that idea. She was the opposite of a fun time in Hawaii, she was a pain in the ass wherever they were when Lisa closed the door on her in the bathroom (Ojai?), she was a loud mess in Puerto Rico--we didn't even see how bad because Kim was being protected yet again, but she still helped ruin the dinner and was yelling at people and insulting them. Kim was the unhappiest of campers in Paris and made the trip awkward for everyone. (Then of course we had to deal with her bullshit excuses for why she relapsed in Paris once the party returned home.)   

 

Do the producers hate Kim because she's been a pain in their asses for years?  Maybe.  Frankly, I'd prefer that explanation to "they shameless exploited Kim's issues for press, for story, and to redeem Kyle."

 

I don't understand this at all. Kyle didn't need any sort of redemption from last season. From my perspective Brandi and Lisa were last season's biggest fuck ups with Brandi by far being the chief offender to me for the way that she treated Joyce. It still makes me ill that Brandi was allowed to get away with treating another human being that way and she expects us all to forget about it because her house supposedly got egged. 

 

So, the producers forced this damn boring, and sad, and tragic story down our throats all season long, and IMO, the show has suffered for it.  BUT, they are getting the reaction they wanted, lots of people talking about how horrible Brandi is, how wonderful Kyle is, and how awful Kim is, as well as two newbies that made their bones and will be asked back.  At the expense of Kim being torn to shreds each episode.

 

 

The only reason Kim is being ripped to shreds by viewers is because of her own behavior. It isn't the fault of producers that Kim is unwilling to either give or accept an apology; I understand why people find shit like that to be offensive. It isn't the fault of producers that Kim *never* accepts responsibility for her behavior; after five seasons of that it gets old. It isn't the fault of producers that Kim is a raging hypocrite when it comes to discussing other people's issues on camera; I'd love it if Taylor would mention this during her appearance on WWHL. It isn't the fault of the producers that Kim decided that she wanted to be BFFs with Brandi all while Brandi was trashing her sister; this is doubly frustrating for viewers because Kim has made it clear that she expects Kyle to leap to her defense but doesn't have the same expectations when it comes to her own behavior. It isn't the fault of producers that Kim expects other people to care about things like her children and her addiction issues more than she does.

 

I'm sorry but I completely disagree that Kim is some sort of victim here.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Avaleigh

[Umbelina]

You honestly believe those bitches wanted to HELP Kim?

 

If so, yeah, we will never agree.  It's laughable to me.  If it wasn't so disturbing, that is.

 

I don't think Kim was out of it at the mixer, she was calm, and not being bitchy or disruptive.  She probably took her lorazepam because it's obvious the woman does have anxiety issues.  Producers wanted Brandi there, so she took her.  Obvi.  Kyle's the one who made a huge dramatic scene.  Again, just what the producers wanted.

 

My interest is in the "whys."  Why did this horrible, boring, disturbing story continue for the rest of the season?  That's what I'm trying to discuss here, looking at all of this with a critical eye, instead of just buying the Bravo bullshit.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Umbelina

[Avaleigh]

You honestly believe those bitches wanted to HELP Kim?

 

If so, yeah, we will never agree.  It's laughable to me.  If it wasn't so disturbing, that is.

 

I don't think Kim was out of it at the mixer, she was calm, and not being bitchy or disruptive.  She probably took her lorazepam because it's obvious the woman does have anxiety issues.  Producers wanted Brandi there, so she took her.  Obvi.  Kyle's the one who made a huge dramatic scene.  Again, just what the producers wanted.

 

My interest is in the "whys."  Why did this horrible, boring, disturbing story continue for the rest of the season?  That's what I'm trying to discuss here, looking at all of this with a critical eye, instead of just buying the Bravo bullshit.

I didn't address this in my post at all. I didn't say whether or not I think the women were trying to help Kim.

 

I was asking you why you think that Kim would have been fun on vacation when pretty much every season has shown otherwise. 

 

I was asking you why you think Kyle was in need of redemption and explained why I'm skeptical of the speculation that the producers are supposedly trying to give Kim a bad edit so that Kyle can be "redeemed". 

 

I was asking you why you don't think Kim's behavior is to blame for why many viewers have a negative opinion of her. To me what it sounds like you're saying is that Kim is being ripped to shreds by viewers because this is a producer plan as opposed to viewers seeing Kim's behavior for themselves and simply thinking that it's offensive and unacceptable. 

 

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree about whether or not Kim was high at Kyle's mixer because I definitely thought she was. I also thought she was unnecessarily bitchy. She straight up had attitude with Kyle and was actually arguing with her about what day they'd seen each other. I can totally understand why Kyle was driven to tears of frustration. Kim getting her days mixed up was a huge red flag IMO as to her state of mind that evening but obviously mileage varies with stuff like this.

 

Oh and for the record I don't think that Eileen or LisaR had bad intentions towards Kim. 

[Giselle]

 

Oh and for the record I don't think that Eileen or LisaR had bad intentions towards Kim. 

 

I agree and after Kim ripped into them I wouldn't blame them if they didn't give a rat's ass about her issues now.

[Umbelina]

I didn't address this in my post at all. I didn't say whether or not I think the women were trying to help Kim.

 

To me though, that is the most important issue, and impacts every scene.

 

I was asking you why you think that Kim would have been fun on vacation when pretty much every season has shown otherwise. 

 

Because there was no evidence of Kim being under the influence, or out of control, until her sobriety was brought up.  AGAIN.  Plane and dinner.  In the unseen video we saw her in a limo laughing and joking with Kyle, in the footage caught by a viewer in Amsterdam she was laughing, shopping, having fun.  Etc.  She was given no chance, even on the trip over, Lipsa started in.  First night, they all did.  IMO, totally producer and Kyle driven.

 

I was asking you why you think Kyle was in need of redemption and explained why I'm skeptical of the speculation that the producers are supposedly trying to give Kim a bad edit so that Kyle can be "redeemed". 

 

Because Kyle has been hated and reviled by just about everyone up until this season?  I have no idea why the producers chose all of this crap for this season, many possible reasons.  Redeeming Kyle.  Nothing interesting or "dramatic" brought to the table by anyone else, Lisa fed up after last season, anger at Kim for being difficult in other seasons, who knows?  I'm just more interested in the Bravo/wives WHYS than simply labeling certain "wives" and making villains and heroes.

 

I was asking you why you don't think Kim's behavior is to blame for why many viewers have a negative opinion of her. To me what it sounds like you're saying is that Kim is being ripped to shreds by viewers because this is a producer plan as opposed to viewers seeing Kim's behavior for themselves and simply thinking that it's offensive and unacceptable. 

 

I think THIS forum has certain views that I don't see echoed in other forums.  I have no idea what the producers motivations are, as stated above.  Frankly, probably just to have a "dramatic" season, and as we know from NJ, that includes families ripped apart.  Frankly, I also think dissenting voices are being intimidated here, since any post that doesn't vilify Kim or Brandi, or insist they be fired, let alone that Kyle is not a martyr/victim/angel is quoted by multiple people and torn to shreds.  It honestly doesn't lead to people wanting to jump in with their own opinions, when a post saying Eileen should have thrown Kim through a plate glass window instead gets 24 "likes" what's the point of trying?  Posters have moved on. 

 

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree about whether or not Kim was high at Kyle's mixer because I definitely thought she was. I also thought she was unnecessarily bitchy. She straight up had attitude with Kyle and was actually arguing with her about what day they'd seen each other. I can totally understand why Kyle was driven to tears of frustration. Kim getting her days mixed up was a huge red flag IMO as to her state of mind that evening but obviously mileage varies with stuff like this.

 

Yeah, we will.  Kyle was acting, and frankly, is an angry, vicious drunk, who definitely holds her liquor outwardly much better than Kim.  Kyle was once again making everything all about Kyle, getting story at the expense of her sister's obvious, and to me, heartbreaking issues with addition, and whatever mental and psychological issues she has, some of which probably lead to the additions.  I don't see addicts as "fair game" for reality shows, I see them as sick, just as sick as a person with other medical issues.  I don't think it's always a choice to simply "quit" because addiction issues are complicated, and varied, and depend on the individual.  Those things should be left in the hands of professionals, not fucking Bravo producers trying to get good footage, or "wives" who want to look good on camera and keep their own secrets and issues off camera.

 

Oh and for the record I don't think that Eileen or LisaR had bad intentions towards Kim. 

 

I don't think they had good intentions either.  I think they just want the paycheck.  Their turn WILL come.

 

There, I tried to answer you.  Although, you responded to my post, where I made points not addressed by you about the way I look at these shows. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by Umbelina

[Avaleigh]

You honestly believe those bitches wanted to HELP Kim?

 

If so, yeah, we will never agree.  It's laughable to me.  If it wasn't so disturbing, that is.

 

I don't think Kim was out of it at the mixer, she was calm, and not being bitchy or disruptive.  She probably took her lorazepam because it's obvious the woman does have anxiety issues.  Producers wanted Brandi there, so she took her.  Obvi.  Kyle's the one who made a huge dramatic scene.  Again, just what the producers wanted.

 

My interest is in the "whys."  Why did this horrible, boring, disturbing story continue for the rest of the season?  That's what I'm trying to discuss here, looking at all of this with a critical eye, instead of just buying the Bravo bullshit.

I thought I'd addressed most of it but I don't mind getting more detailed, that's fair enough. :-)

 

Regarding the first question--I don't think that LisaR or Eileen had negative intentions towards Kim.

 

I think that Kim was out of it at the mixer and used the fact that she seemed to have no idea what day it was as evidence. She was bitchy with Kyle when she insisted that Kyle was the one who didn't know what day they'd seen each other.

 

I can see how Brandi being there is a producer machination but when Kim says things like how she thinks that Kyle will "appreciate the gesture" I know that she's full of shit. That sort of thing is unnecessary. I also think that Kim was being bitchy by acting like she didn't hear Brandi saying things like how Mauricio doesn't want Kyle. I thought it was crappy of Kim to stand there and not say anything to Brandi when Brandi threatened to knock Kyle's teeth out. I definitely disagree that Kim wasn't being bitchy that evening.

 

Why did this story continue for the rest of the season? My guess is that it has to do with ratings. In season one the finale with the limo fight was the highest rated episode. There was a huge spike in the ratings for the second Game Night episode because people wanted to see the continuation of the drama that developed after Brandi made the meth comment among other things. The night where Kim is completely wasted for the SUR party was the third highest rated of the season just behind part one of the reunion and the wedding finale. For this season, there was a big spike in ratings for the second episode that continued the drama from Poker Night. (Brandi's wine toss meanwhile didn't result in a ratings spike.) In fact that episode has been the highest of the season so far.

[Lisin]

OK Guys, 1) this topic is for discussing past seasons, we've strayed a little from there I think. Nothing is moving but lets try to remember what topic we're in. 2) Please let us all agree to disagree on some things. No one is going to change their mind about their favorite housewife. Snark the show not each other. 

[zoeysmom]

For review-interesting Dana/Pam : http://www.allabouttrh.com/allabouttrh-exclusive-interview-with-dana-wilkey/#more-2984

[zoeysmom]

Game Night:  The Pointer sisters  http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi4002192921

Yep Kyle pretty much tells Brandi she doesn't like her and she is classless and trashy and doesn't belong.

 

Kyle taking on Brandi's parenting:  http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi4002192921

 

Kyle telling Lisa and Adrienne:  http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi4002192921

Brandi gives a clue about Winston Churchill, the famous black leader.

 

I will say Brandi hasn't changed.  We saw the real Brandi.  I guess it just didn't register with her that you do apologize when your kid takes a leak in front of everyone on the lawn. 

[JAYJAY1979]

When rewatching season 1 recently.. i was surprised at how much filming the husband did minus the wives.  I kind of miss the contrast of the wives having drama while the husbands are just having a drink and laughing about stuff.

 

Also, Brandi may swear a lot, but she is totally no Allison Dubois.  Now that is a train wreck of epic levels and yet I couldn't help laughing at all the insults she hurled at Kyle and Faye (who just oozes sleaziness, yet has no trouble tossing stones at glass houses).

[kelleythinksso]

Not sure if anyone has posted this before, but Bravo has a "highlight reel" of the saga of Kim and Kyle:

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/season-5/videos/the-highs-and-lows-of-kyle-and-kims?clip=15284204

 

Watching them fight with Brandi is certainly a bit bizarre considering the events of this season.

[quinn]

It's already started but there is a marathon of RHoBH reunions airing today.

[BlackMamba]

watching how Brandi threw Adrienne under the bus. boy if LVP knew then what she knew now...

Kyle says, "Shes not really into the show."

Edited April 10, 2015 by BlackMamba

[hatchetgirl]

Holy cow!  I'm watching season 1 on Hulu and Camille actually said re: the divorce and the person staying at the condo "I hope it's woman..."  What the hell?  Nice inference there.  She's a snake.  I know she's upset over the break up, but dang, that's low.

 

As for the whole NY thing.  Yawn.  That is the lamest thing to continue on with.  Really?  We are at the end of the season and they are still talking about it?

 

With Taylor, it was pretty heartbreaking watching this.  Isn't she the one who's abused by her hubby and then he commits suicide?  Dang!

 

I liked Carlton.  She was feisty and furious.  LOL.  But her whole schtick was too much.  Joyce was a bit of a yawnfest for me.  

 

Brandi is a horror show nightmare.  

[JAYJAY1979]

Joyce was too.normal to.be on the show...but in her and carletons defense....season 4 was edited in a way that we didn't get to know either of them before.throwing them into conflict.

What I liked about season 5 was that we spent time seeing both Lisa r and Eileen in their day to day life before throwing them into the lions den. Conflict is pointless of you don't care about the people.

I didn't know Joyce or carleton that well to be honest and even Andy Cohen admitted it.

[BlackMamba]

Basically this tweet says it all

[100percent Pain]

I've been re-watching the first 3 seasons. Will likely skip season 4. Once was enough. A few things stand out when I watched with knowledge of how things played out.

 

1. I am no Brandi fan, but she clearly didn't like Lisa telling her what to do from the very beginning. It's all over her face. The whole set-up with Cedric/Brandi is painful when you know how fake it all was. The Scheana sit down really makes Lisa look guilty of exploiting that situation for her benefit. The build up is forced.

 

2. The big reveal by Brandi of Adrienne's personal business is so weird. It's a wonder that viewers were able to sift through this storyline with all it's omissions and holes. But it's clear that Brandi knew that she'd be revealing that info at some point. She lays the groundwork for it with her discussion of pregnancies and deliveries. Adrienne talks on and on in detail about hers (non-existant) while Brandi stares at her like a snake. This made it clear that it was totally set up to happen. The producers did not bank on Adrienne blocking their story, which made it so frustrating to watch,and frustrating for them as well.

 

3. Speaking of blocking..Adrienne's kids are only shown a couple of times in seasons 1&2..from the back,with big hats and scarves.Always concealed. When shown the day of the fire in Season 3, they are given the blurred out face treatment. It's obvious they are protective of the kids and don't want them to be seen. So why did Adrienne share so much about an issue that she knows isn't true. She could have stayed quiet,and said no thank you to that question. Makes you wonder.

 

4. The hardest thing is to see Ken with Brandi. He genuinley really liked her. He was so friendly,protective and his intentions never feel fake. She crapped all over that. I believe Lisa really liked her too and defended her all the time(to her own detriment) even if it was a friendship that was at least in part for the show.  Brandi should have played that hand better. She wanted more and misjudged her popularity with the audience. I see Yolanda's influence in her switching gears.

 

5. Speaking of Yolanda..Just Yuck! Right from the beginning.Makes me question why I liked her the first time around. On second viewing,she was awful from day one. It's ironic to see her being so obnoxious about all her healthy living,no drinking(we see her with a glass of hard liquor) diet,exercise,Master Cleanse,lambs dna injections. And now her biggest story is how sickly she is. She is FF material for me. I won't watch her unless she's interacting with another HW. Hope she's gone this season.

 I know this has all been said and re-hashed,and not sure if anyone will even read this post, but seeing it years later with knowledge of it's outcome is interesting. I had to share.

[AuntieDiane6]

I'm loving this documentary (Uncensored) about Season 1 of RHoBH !!   Fascinating.

[breezy424]

I'm loving this documentary (Uncensored) about Season 1 of RHoBH !!   Fascinating.

Me too!  Got a lot more insight into what went on and a better understanding of things.

 

They should do something like this after each season of all the housewives' shows.

 

And haha.  Lisa wanted to be 'Pinky' Vanderpump.  It does sound like a porno name.  I wonder if she had work done between her audition and when they started filming.  She actually looked younger to me in the audition tape.  Maybe it was because she wasn't wearing false eyelashes.  Another haha moment was Kyle going out and buying the lingerie for the shoot at her house that she hasn't worn since. 

[BogoGog24]

I think it's because in Lisa's audition tape she didn't have any makeup on.

I've got the DVD of season 1 but haven't gotten around to watching it yet, so it will be interesting to see it knowing all this behind the scenes info. I found it utterly fascinating! They need to do these for all the franchises, maybe even for every season, IMO. I also work as a production assistant in broadcasting, so seeing all the BTS and production aspect was extra fascinating to me. Hope they consider doing more of these for the other cities.

[motorcitymom65]

That "uncensored" special was all kinds of awesome.  Loved hearing especially from Production.  It reminds me of back in the early days when Bravo had one Producer on each show write a blog where they gave some of these little details about things that we didn't see which influenced the drama.  

 

I completely agree with others above - more of this please. 

 

One thing that really jumped out at me was the very end when they mentioned that the cast hadn't yet seen the final two episodes when they shot the reunion (now they give the HW's the tapes of the last several episodes prior to the reunions) and they were seeing the limo scene for the first time at the reunion. The little nugget from Andy that some of the ladies were whispering prior to walking on stage about whether or not they would actually hear the "a" word, or if it would be edited out. Also interesting to hear just how out of control Kim was during that season and how protected she was by the cast and production. 

[Thick McRunFast]

I'm loving this documentary (Uncensored) about Season 1 of RHoBH !!   Fascinating.

I had forgotten how nuts that season was. Kyle looks so different now. I don't think all those fillers and whatever else she's had done is working for her. She used to be so much softer and prettier. That's probably the nicest thing I'll ever say about Kyle. This show reminded me how much she has always annoyed me.

[lunastartron]

The special was a nice refresher that Kim by no means has a monopoly on reprehensible behavior among Richards family members. Although I firmly concurred with the perspective that Eileen articulated last season regarding the cast's communications to our resident alcoholic and presently think Kim is more or less irredeemable, the footage of Kyle attempting to assault her sister and swatting over Adrienne never ceases to underscore her vileness for me. I'd read interviews in which she noted that had requested production prevent the car service from ferrying Kim away but watching the efforts to which she went in order to humiliate her sister on camera was horrifying. That she also knocked the camera out of a producer's hands because of her fury at a situation that she herself created and upbraided Kim some more after returning to the limousine highlights her own psychiatric issues and sadism . . . Wrt the present-day confessionals, Taylor must have pissed off grooming and wardrobe. She looked dirty, unkempt, and like she's boasting her own drinker's bloat.

[breezy424]

I had forgotten how nuts that season was. Kyle looks so different now. I don't think all those fillers and whatever else she's had done is working for her. She used to be so much softer and prettier. That's probably the nicest thing I'll ever say about Kyle. This show reminded me how much she has always annoyed me.

I actually don't think Kyle looks all that different if at all.

[breezy424]

The special was a nice refresher that Kim by no means has a monopoly on reprehensible behavior among Richards family members. Although I firmly concurred with the perspective that Eileen articulated last season regarding the cast's communications to our resident alcoholic and presently think Kim is more or less irredeemable, the footage of Kyle attempting to assault her sister and swatting over Adrienne never ceases to underscore her vileness for me. I'd read interviews in which she noted that had requested production prevent the car service from ferrying Kim away but watching the efforts to which she went in order to humiliate her sister on camera was horrifying. That she also knocked the camera out of a producer's hands because of her fury at a situation that she herself created and upbraided Kim some more after returning to the limousine highlights her own psychiatric issues and sadism . . . Wrt the present-day confessionals, Taylor must have pissed off grooming and wardrobe. She looked dirty, unkempt, and like she's boasting her own drinker's bloat.

From Kyle's perspective, she and Mauricio were taking care of and protecting Kim for years.  And with this in mind, Kim accuses Kyle of 'stealing' her house.  And seeing Kim's behavior in the news recently, I don't think it was anything different than it has been for years, except she finally got caught.  Or maybe she's been caught before but we don't know about it.  I don't think Kyle created the situation.  Kim did.  Alcoholic Kim.

 

Sadism?  Psychiatric issues?  What?  She's been dealing with an alcoholic. Sorry but no.  She was a sane person dealing with addict in denial.  Revealing that Kim was an alcoholic on camera was one of the best things she could have done for her sister.  Kyle doesn't feel that way because it was always the family secret but keeping the family secret can be enabling the Ye Old Moma Guilt Trip.  And Kim knows it.  I guess because I've been down that road, I totally get where Kyle was coming from and why she acted the way she did.  Yes, Alcoholism is a disease.  It can't be overcome until the alcoholic acknowledges it.  If the people around the alcoholic just put up with it,  that's not helping.  That's enabling.  And after watching the special, everyone knew.  Poor Kim for being 'exposed'?  No.  It's 'poor' Kim's family, especially her children, for having to deal with this.  Hopefully, after this year's events, Kim has finally reached her bottom.  I have doubts.

[Watermelon]

I actually don't think Kyle had some big plan to tell the world Kim was an alcoholic. The producer said she said film it or don't, but I'm talking to my sister, which makes it seem to me that Kim was gonna get that curse out, regardless of who was around.

[straightshooter]

They all looked so much better before they started paying to have their faces messed with - stuff put in, stuff taken out, whatever - they looked better then, and not just because they were a few years younger.

[zoeysmom]

The producer who wrote the blogs was Dave Rupel.  I am not sure if you can find the blogs on Bravo still but they were good.

 

One thing I noticed in New York was how flushed Kim's face was.  The others had to have caught on to the fact Kim had a drinking problem.  It seems she was also drinking at the airport, in Mohamed's bathroom, at Camille's dinner party and had to be sober up for the finale. (That was Bette Smith with Kim. Who to this day still stands by and manages her.)

 

Interesting Kyle and Mauricio having to manage Kim's money.  I always wondered where that "second fucking wife," comment came from.  This was Kim supposedly sober and they were having to manage her money.  Then hearing Kyle say we told you if you screwed up we would not help you anymore.  Kim is a vicious bitch.  She knew exactly what she was doing when she accused Mauricio and Kyle of stealing her "goddamn house".

 

Doug Ross talking about having to convince Andy et al, to fund the show and Andy seemingly have an objection to just about everything.  I guess the ladies delivered.

 

Even in Beverly Hills the ladies age.  You can see the difference with the original lighting and the lighting since.  I also thought it funny about the crew and cast getting lost in the mansions.  It is amazing that the core group of five women (with the exception of Lisa and Adrienne) have managed to cobble together a relationship over the years.

 

Paul and Adrienne's bickering and the crew talking about them yelling at each other. Yikes.  Paul has a good career now and I hope they communicate better for the sake of the kids.

 

How bad was Kim behaving that the hotel kicked her out of the lobby and finally the room?  Something tells me there is a lot more footage they can't share.  I have never believed that Kyle was going to manually throttled Kim, I think they do that finger pointing poking thing back and forth.  All I can think of is how much fun it must have been Season 2 and Season 5 for Kyle to have to relive more bad drinking behavior.  I do think the other women were honestly appalled but they had to have gotten weary of covering for Kim.

 

I was glad Camille admitted to being insecure.  I remember Andy saying Camille had quit several times during the season.  She sure had an idea of how things should go.  I thought it interesting she threw out the "label me" comment.